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20110211 06:20:39< Sapient> shadowmaster: still want to know why I moved FIRE!!!?
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20110211 06:21:00< shadowmaster> probably
20110211 06:21:56< Sapient> I imagine a lot of people come in the User's Forum and see the title of that thread and click on it because they have no idea what "FIRE!!!!" is about
20110211 06:22:15< Sapient> so I sent it to the Elephant's graveyard
20110211 06:22:26< Sapient> rest in peace
20110211 06:22:31< shadowmaster> mission accomplished, it died hours later
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20110211 06:23:13< Sapient> yeah, the user should have put it there in the first place. honestly I'm surprised you asked
20110211 06:23:34< shadowmaster> Gambit asked first ;)
20110211 06:25:06< Sapient> I believe in a heirarchy of subforums, where he User's Forum is near the top and should be kept presentable, and the Ideas Forum is near the bottom
20110211 06:26:43< Sapient> his thread was judged and deemed unworthy
20110211 06:27:00< Sapient> anyways, cya later
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20110211 06:29:02< shadowmaster> holy tiling crash
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20110211 07:38:51< timotei> morning
20110211 07:39:43< shadowmaster> hi there
20110211 07:40:27< timotei> Ivanovic: I know one "organization" which can we reference: L2j
20110211 07:40:34< timotei> I'll send an email to their admin
20110211 07:52:23< eoc`> mornin'
20110211 07:52:46< eoc`> I also got inspired by your past participations to maybe give it a try this year
20110211 07:53:02< eoc`> but we'll have a meeting first and discuss stuff, so nothing's set in stone
20110211 07:53:23< timotei> eoc`: morning. what org?
20110211 07:58:03< eoc`> if you don't take this as an advert ;o unknown horizons, a small rts game
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20110211 09:58:04< Ivanovic> moin
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20110211 10:08:29< Ivanovic> timotei: what is "L2j"? (never heard of this project before)
20110211 10:08:51< timotei> Ivanovic: it's the best (known) open source server for the Lineage 2 MMORPG client :)
20110211 10:08:56< timotei> it's the only one legal though
20110211 10:09:19< Ivanovic> ah
20110211 10:09:29< timotei> for example, iirc all World of Warcraft private servers are illegal
20110211 10:09:41< timotei> but because Lineage2 forgot to state in their EULA that servers are illegal
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20110211 10:09:53< timotei> it appeared l2j.
20110211 10:09:54< timotei> :D
20110211 10:11:18< Ivanovic> :)
20110211 10:11:45< timotei> any subsequent servers that are not based on l2j are illegal, because lineage 2 changed their eula, lol
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20110211 10:42:49< AI0867> timotei: do you pay before or after accepting the eula?
20110211 10:43:46< timotei> AI0867: I think before.
20110211 10:43:56< timotei> I mean, the eula is presented AFTER you login in the game
20110211 10:44:05< timotei> (with an eligible account/pass)
20110211 10:44:12< timotei> though maybe you get the EULA at account creation
20110211 10:44:13< timotei> why?
20110211 10:44:36< Ivanovic> timotei: in several countries, like eg germany, those EULAs are basically invalid
20110211 10:44:47< timotei> Ivanovic: really?
20110211 10:44:49< Ivanovic> meaning that only those part that the user chooses to apply are really valid
20110211 10:44:53< Ivanovic> jepp
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20110211 10:45:02< timotei> hehe
20110211 10:45:10< Ivanovic> if this EULA is not known when buying stuff, additional limitations later on don't matter
20110211 10:45:33< timotei> oh
20110211 10:45:35< Ivanovic> (i made use of this when getting a refund for the windows license that came with my laptop)
20110211 10:45:36< timotei> true
20110211 10:45:39< timotei> haha
20110211 10:45:42< timotei> from HP?
20110211 10:45:46< Ivanovic> no, lenovo
20110211 10:45:51< timotei> and you got the refund?:P
20110211 10:45:58< Ivanovic> sure
20110211 10:46:02< timotei> nice :D
20110211 10:46:13< Ivanovic> cf http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?7949-Successfull-refund-of-quot-Windows-Tax-quot&s=6e023c9f3a0be96233e7439f4820cbf6
20110211 10:47:31< timotei> btw
20110211 10:47:31< timotei> http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/10/nokia-confirms-microsoft-partnership-new-leadership-team/
20110211 10:47:32< timotei> >D
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20110211 15:14:34< Salade> hello
20110211 15:16:09< fendrin> hi Salade
20110211 15:16:26< Salade> i have a question about help.cfg
20110211 15:16:44< Salade> i wonder if anyone knows, in help.cfg, some sections defined a 'generator' field, e.g. generator=abilities, that according to wiki/HelpWML: "provides the name of a function that will generate a list of topics and include them in this section"
20110211 15:17:09< Salade> where does the functions defined? is it in the c++ source or another wml/cfg?
20110211 15:17:50< fendrin> Salade: c++
20110211 15:18:33< Salade> ic. thx. let me take a look
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20110211 16:15:09< timotei> NETSPLITTTTTT
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20110211 16:15:20< timotei> Gambit: grab the hammer! quick
20110211 16:15:33< Gambit> What?
20110211 16:15:37< timotei> NET SPLIT!
20110211 16:15:41< timotei> and janebot with it
20110211 16:15:50< Gambit> Ohwow.
20110211 16:15:53< timotei> hm
20110211 16:15:56< Gambit> timotei: We're on the wrong side.
20110211 16:15:59< Gambit> Quit and rejoin.
20110211 16:16:01< timotei> why?
20110211 16:16:03< Gambit> Services is on the other side :'(
20110211 16:16:08< timotei> oh yeah
20110211 16:16:12< timotei> but how happened
20110211 16:16:16< timotei> that the bot died
20110211 16:16:18< timotei> but you not?
20110211 16:16:27< Gambit> timotei: We're on different servers.
20110211 16:16:33< timotei> really?
20110211 16:16:35< Gambit> Yes
20110211 16:16:43< Gambit> you'll note that in ##Gambot, franbot is also still alive
20110211 16:16:56< Gambit> I need to kill her though so that she's not reading the forums without jane.
20110211 16:17:34< timotei> well. the majority is still here :D
20110211 16:17:38< timotei> so no need to rejoin :P
20110211 16:17:47< timotei> or not?
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20110211 16:17:54< Gambit> Yes there's no need to rejoin :P
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20110211 16:18:04< Gambit> These things sort thems- wow really?
20110211 16:18:10< Gambit> Haha.
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20110211 16:22:46< Gambit> timotei: These things sort themselves out :\
20110211 16:23:14< Gambit> Ah. Yeah there you have it.
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20110211 16:29:28< timotei> here we go again
20110211 16:29:28< timotei> lol
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20110211 19:43:13< CIA-117> anonymissimus * r48464 /trunk/data/core/macros/terrain-utils.cfg: Fixed array index out-of-bounds problem and uncleared variables in SCATTER_IMAGE and improved its code.
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20110211 20:01:29< CIA-117> fendrin * r48465 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Implemented the [unit_input] message subtag and replaced the old recruit dialog with a gui2 one.
20110211 20:01:47< fendrin> mordante: ^ Please review that commit.
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20110211 20:14:55< mordante> servus
20110211 20:15:05< timotei> hi mordante 
20110211 20:15:09< mordante> hi timotei 
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20110211 20:21:11< mordante> fendrin, I'm getting seriously annoyed by your gui2 stuff :-|
20110211 20:21:33< mordante> first you ask me to review all code in the branch then tell me you won't merge back
20110211 20:21:56< mordante> and now you merge to trunk before letting me do the review
20110211 20:22:23< mordante> you're wasting a lot of my time by doing it like this
20110211 20:24:55< mordante> I did a quick review and the code looks horrible with a lot of TODO's and commented out stuff
20110211 20:25:23< mordante> I also miss the wiki comment explaining what is expected of the dialog
20110211 20:26:04< fendrin> Please tell me more about the wiki comment.
20110211 20:26:44< mordante> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Wiki_grabber
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20110211 20:46:32< timotei> night guys
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20110211 20:50:44< CIA-117> mordante * r48466 /trunk/ (13 files in 7 dirs): 
20110211 20:50:44< CIA-117> Add a new tooltip implementation.
20110211 20:50:44< CIA-117> It's based on a new base class for popup windows. It also fixes the not
20110211 20:50:44< CIA-117> properly undrawing problem.
20110211 20:51:26< mordante> fendrin, the code no longer compiles with GUI2_EXPERIMENTAL_LISTBOX set
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20110211 21:00:15< nHarzilei> hi
20110211 21:00:29< mordante> hi nHarzilei 
20110211 21:01:07< nHarzilei> is there some way to reactivate notification of oos after one has selected ignore in that dialog?
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20110211 21:08:51< Soliton> probably not. it's just for that session though.
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20110211 21:13:47< fendrin> mordante: Can't reproduce it. Do you have a scons commandline for me to enable the flag?
20110211 21:14:50< shadowmaster> scons extra_flags_config=-DGUI2_EXPERIMENTAL_LISTBOX
20110211 21:15:23< mordante> fendrin, what shadowmaster said^
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20110211 21:57:03< Rhonda> Soliton: You might want to /upgrade for the lobby (unless it uses ssl connections, then you'll have to restart irssi completely)
20110211 21:57:30< Soliton> ok.
20110211 21:58:24< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 11 21:59:06 2011
--- Log opened Fri Feb 11 21:59:07 2011
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20110211 21:59:10-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20110211 22:38:36< SirpIpad> grzywacz: do you have any idea of how hard it would be to implement voice chat in wesnoth? Suitable as a gsoc task?
20110211 22:39:53< shadowmaster> :x
20110211 22:40:15< Espreon> For realz?
20110211 22:40:32< shadowmaster> no-one needs voicechat
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20110211 22:42:51< SirpIpad> shadowmaster: Sure ... But some people want it and it doesn't hurt
20110211 22:43:47< Espreon> True, but I don't think now's the best time to have such a thing implemented.
20110211 22:44:09< SirpIpad> Why not?
20110211 22:45:02< Espreon> Well, noöne really needs it; I'm sure it would be much better to have things we actually need done first.
20110211 22:45:29< SirpIpad> That's not the way wesnoth development works
20110211 22:46:21< SirpIpad> Developers implement what they want to develop ... Not according to some list of priorities
20110211 22:46:32< Espreon> Perhaps now's the best time to give up hope and just cry in the corner.
20110211 22:48:13< elias> i wonder if code could be adapted from some other GPL project
20110211 22:48:34< shadowmaster> well, if we can implement whatever we want I suppose we could as well forget the gigantic list of bugs.
20110211 22:49:29< Espreon> Indeed.
20110211 22:49:32< elias> well, wesnoth got to where it is with everyone working on what they want
20110211 22:49:46< SirpIpad> shadowmaster: Absolutely ... Bugs get fixed because they annoy people
20110211 22:50:10 * Espreon rolls his eyes
20110211 22:50:25< elias> a bug which nobody wants to fix... will never get fixed. easy as that :)
20110211 22:50:35< SirpIpad> If a bug doesn't annoy anyone enough to get fixed it is apparently not that bad
20110211 22:50:53< shadowmaster> that's pretty subjective
20110211 22:51:04< shadowmaster> it might not annoy developers but it might make it an unbearable experience to users
20110211 22:51:24< shadowmaster> right now there are multiple problems with the network layer, for instance
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20110211 22:51:41< shadowmaster> they don't seem to annoy anyone but a few users and content authors
20110211 22:51:47< shadowmaster> (including me)
20110211 22:53:36< SirpIpad> I hope they get fixed but we won't tell anyon they must stop developing other things in the meantime
20110211 22:53:37< Espreon> 'Twould be much better to have efforts focused on GUI2, for GUI1 is an unholy abomination. But, noöne seems to care... except for a certain Dutchman.
20110211 22:53:57< SirpIpad> Though what are the bugs with the network layer?
20110211 22:54:20< shadowmaster> large downloads fail (known)
20110211 22:54:30< shadowmaster> libana breaks wesnothd (kno[B[B[Blibana breaks wesnothd
20110211 22:54:32< SirpIpad> Ok
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20110211 22:54:42< shadowmaster> libana breaks add-on uploads progress dialog
20110211 22:54:45< SirpIpad> What is ligand?
20110211 22:54:51< SirpIpad> Ligand
20110211 22:54:51< shadowmaster> I said libana
20110211 22:54:56< SirpIpad> Uhhh
20110211 22:55:07< SirpIpad> Yeah my ipad auto corrects things
20110211 22:55:15< SirpIpad> It is annoying
20110211 22:55:19< SirpIpad> :)
20110211 22:55:41< shadowmaster> libana was supposed to be a reengineering of the network layer as part of GSoC 2010.
20110211 22:55:51< shadowmaster> but there are some show-stopper bugs that have not been fixed.
20110211 22:56:28< SirpIpad> Ok ... But it is integrated into mainline code or not?
20110211 22:56:38< Ivanovic> Espreon: you complained that i "fixed" things with the terrains in a bad way
20110211 22:56:41< shadowmaster> ... yes... it is. Since months.
20110211 22:57:03< Ivanovic> Espreon: have you had a look at reverting stuff? shall it stay the current way? ...
20110211 22:57:27< Espreon> Ivanovic: I have not. It shan't stay that way.
20110211 22:57:34< shadowmaster> it is possible to compile Wesnoth without libana currently, but it seems such a big waste
20110211 22:57:57< SirpIpad> shadowmaster: So if I try a large download it will fail ... Is that the biggest bug?
20110211 22:58:25< SirpIpad> So it is optional when compiled?
20110211 22:58:34< shadowmaster> in the networking area, that's it and affects both ana-less and ana-ed wesnoth
20110211 22:58:38< SirpIpad> Who developed it?
20110211 22:58:38< Ivanovic> Espreon: it would be *really* good if you had a look at it soon so that i can run a pot update
20110211 22:58:49< Ivanovic> (the last one was ages ago!)
20110211 22:59:18< Espreon> Ivanovic: I'll do it in about five hours.
20110211 22:59:23< Ivanovic> okay
20110211 22:59:36< Espreon> Sadly, I don't have an infinite amount of free time.
20110211 22:59:40< elias> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ mentions a libmumbleclient
20110211 22:59:55< elias> seems that at least gives you a voice-chat client
20110211 23:00:18< Espreon> Sigh...
20110211 23:01:21< Espreon> Examples of things we need: OGL, GUI2, ana
20110211 23:01:31< Espreon> Voicechat... is a luxury.
20110211 23:02:30< shadowmaster> Espreon: did you read what I said about GL on ##shadowm two nights ago?
20110211 23:02:37< SirpIpad> Sure ... You don't have to work on it
20110211 23:03:03< SirpIpad> shadowmaster: If you refer me to networking bugs I will try to look at them
20110211 23:03:11< Espreon> If it could work on it, and if it were actually needed, I'd gladly work on it.
20110211 23:03:22< Espreon> shadowmaster: No.
20110211 23:04:01< SirpIpad> OpenGL would be awesome. ... But very hard
20110211 23:04:12< shadowmaster> 04:48:50 <shadowmaster> as I view things, siwtching to OpenGL now could delay 1.10 to 2012.
20110211 23:04:28< SirpIpad> shadowmaster: Aye
20110211 23:04:47< shadowmaster> (that's odd. I thought I elaborated on that point. I may have been falling asleep)
20110211 23:05:08< SirpIpad> Really for OpenGL we would need some developers ... Good ones very committed to it
20110211 23:05:47< Espreon> OK, then just focus on GUI2. That'd make me and so many people very happy.
20110211 23:05:58< Espreon> Maybe the Shavian transliteration team'll be happy again.
20110211 23:06:29< Espreon> Let's see, what else is also screwed? Arabic, Hebrew, Marathi... possible more.
20110211 23:06:30< shadowmaster> alink's work was promising. then he... disappeared
20110211 23:06:35< Espreon> Yeah...
20110211 23:06:50< Espreon> *possibly more
20110211 23:07:16< SirpIpad> Espreon: Telling people what they "should" focus on has just never worked for wesnoth development
20110211 23:07:51< loonycyborg> It doesn't work for FOSS development in general.
20110211 23:08:03< loonycyborg> There's no way you can just order people around.
20110211 23:08:24< SirpIpad> People develop wesnoth for Fun ... One of the most annoying things for me when developing wesnoth was when a bunch of people started coming along and telling me what I "should" focus on
20110211 23:08:43< loonycyborg> Never ask other to do something that you won't just do yourself if they refuse :P
20110211 23:09:01< elias> SirpIpad: heh, they told *you* what to focus on?
20110211 23:09:28< elias> i find that really funny somehow :)
20110211 23:09:34< Espreon> ...
20110211 23:09:41< SirpIpad> If I wanted to be told what a high priority task was I would go and look for something that can make the company that actually pays my salary a ton of money
20110211 23:09:48< SirpIpad> elias: Oh yes
20110211 23:11:27< Espreon> No, there are real reasons that GUI2 needs to be finished. But, I ostensibly know nothing, so... whatever.
20110211 23:11:45< elias> discussing which areas need work is important of course, usually there will be people volunteering to take them on
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20110211 23:12:28< SirpIpad> I think the issue with gui2 is it is very hard to make a GUI framework and people do not want to get involved in a mess
20110211 23:13:28< SirpIpad> Sure discussing things that are important, bothersome etc is fine, just not "you may do nothing else til this is done"
20110211 23:15:16< Espreon> Oh no, I wouldn't dare suggest that.
20110211 23:15:18< loonycyborg> Mordante is working on GUI2 currently and doesn't seem to need any bikeshed discussions or other 'help'  :P
20110211 23:26:19< grzywacz> SirpIpad, hm, not really. Depending whether we want it to be stand-alone or integrated with some existing client-server solution like mumble
20110211 23:26:23< Gambit> How would voicechat logs be stored?
20110211 23:26:35< Gambit> That is a lot more space on wesnoth.org.
20110211 23:26:49< grzywacz> Why do you need voicechat logs?
20110211 23:26:57< PetePorty> For the MP mods.
20110211 23:27:05< Gambit> Do we not store textchat logs (even of private replays) for moderation purposes?
20110211 23:27:07< PetePorty> (right?)
20110211 23:27:11< Gambit> PetePorty: exactly
20110211 23:27:14< PetePorty> Awesome.
20110211 23:27:40< SirpIpad> Voice chat would not be moderated
20110211 23:27:50< SirpIpad> There is no way
20110211 23:27:52< Gambit> I think voice chat in general introduces a number of issues related to moderation of the MP server.
20110211 23:27:52< grzywacz> No need for that indeed.
20110211 23:27:57< grzywacz> Not at all.
20110211 23:28:01< grzywacz> You're thinking global voice chat.
20110211 23:28:04< grzywacz> That would be stupid.
20110211 23:28:13< grzywacz> We're thinking invite-only peer-to-peer.
20110211 23:28:20< grzywacz> To make 2vs2 games more enjoyable, for example.
20110211 23:28:45< PetePorty> not moderated chat is... dangerous.
20110211 23:28:49< grzywacz> lol
20110211 23:29:01< Espreon> Yeah, I really should grab some snacks and head into that corner.
20110211 23:29:14< grzywacz> PetePorty, why?
20110211 23:29:39< PetePorty> What if I started a chat with random person in a 1 vs 1 game?
20110211 23:29:57< PetePorty> And he asked to see my privates? And I was stupid and turned on my webcam?
20110211 23:30:08< PetePorty> We couldn't call the police"
20110211 23:30:17< grzywacz> Yeah, my point exactly.
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20110211 23:32:01< Gambit> Welcome to Wesnox Live?
20110211 23:32:04< Soliton> so via voice chat you'd then get the IP of your fellow players? :->
20110211 23:33:10< grzywacz> Soliton, depends if it would be a peer-to-peer solution or server-based. And what's wrong with getting someone's IP anyway?
20110211 23:34:57< Soliton> it's a big change to how things work now for one. i'm sure you can come up with what can all go wrong yourself. it's of course not specific to wesnoth.
20110211 23:35:51< Gambit> For whatever reason, hasn't Wesnoth historically protected that information?
20110211 23:36:04< grzywacz> Protected what information?
20110211 23:36:06< grzywacz> IP?
20110211 23:36:10< Gambit> IP addresses.
20110211 23:36:28< grzywacz> Since clients are not connecting to each other by default there's nothing to "protect". It's simply not available.
20110211 23:36:36< Gambit> They aren't used for user ignores, or bans, or mutes, or anything.
20110211 23:36:43< Gambit> Even though it could have made those features much better.
20110211 23:36:48< grzywacz> IPs are used for bans.
20110211 23:36:54< grzywacz> By admins.
20110211 23:36:57< Gambit> Right.
20110211 23:37:13< Gambit> But I, a normal user, can't /ban Bob from playing with me.
20110211 23:37:21< Gambit> Well I can, but he can change his name.
20110211 23:37:31< grzywacz> Which is fine.
20110211 23:37:43< Soliton> hosts ban by ip as well.
20110211 23:37:54< grzywacz> :)
20110211 23:38:04< Gambit> Nevermind then.
20110211 23:38:41< Soliton> ignores are indeed client side only though.
20110211 23:40:01< grzywacz> as well as friends...
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20110211 23:40:47< Sirp__> Soliton: for voice chat if two players agreed to engage in a voice chat then they would exchange IP addresses.
20110211 23:40:53< Sirp__> and yes it would be peer-to-peer
20110211 23:41:16< Soliton> right, thus my comment.
20110211 23:41:33< Soliton> just something to think about.
20110211 23:42:06< Sirp__> Soliton: mostly it'd be for doing with people you know well, possibly in r/l.
20110211 23:42:17< Sirp__> the intention wouldn't be for random people to start voice chatting with each other like crazy
20110211 23:42:34< PetePorty> Sirp__: they will.
20110211 23:42:40< Sirp__> PetePorty: well that is their choice.
20110211 23:42:46< Gambit> But with that low usage amount, wouldn't it just be easier for those users to use skype or something?
20110211 23:43:06< PetePorty> That's true too...
20110211 23:43:18< Sirp__> Gambit: maybe. If nobody implements it in Wesnoth it doesn't get implemented. :)
20110211 23:43:25< elias> a lot of games seem to have builtin voice chat (even thou you can use teamspeak or ventrilo or skype or ...)
20110211 23:43:27< Soliton> the big benefit for integrated voice chat is for random people. people you know you can easily get on an external voice app.
20110211 23:43:42< Gambit> ^
20110211 23:43:54< grzywacz> Gambit, well, supposed you get into a 2vs2 game. At this point exchanging skype accounts is hardly convenient. Not to mention that this information is probably more prone to abuse than IPs themselves.
20110211 23:44:16< grzywacz> *suppose
20110211 23:44:19< PetePorty> Therefore, you WILL be talking to people you don't know.
20110211 23:44:25< grzywacz> So?
20110211 23:44:28< grzywacz> My choice.
20110211 23:44:30< PetePorty> And we're back to our first problem.
20110211 23:44:35< grzywacz> Such us?
20110211 23:44:41< Sirp__> what is the problem?
20110211 23:44:47< PetePorty> There are 12 year olds playing Wesnoth.
20110211 23:45:00< grzywacz> Ok, so?
20110211 23:45:07< Gambit> PetePorty: That's their parent's job.
20110211 23:45:40< PetePorty> Alright...
20110211 23:45:47< Sirp__> so they can use Wesnoth already to give out their phone number, address, etc.
20110211 23:46:01< grzywacz> read to people swearing in the lobby...
20110211 23:46:07< PetePorty> Sirp__: but all this is stored in logs.
20110211 23:46:59< grzywacz> Phone numbers and addresses? Sounds like wesnothd is in scope of PII protection. ;)
20110211 23:47:09< PetePorty> Anyways, the main problem I have with this "fix" is that I really don't see what problem it's fixing. I mean, the text chat is perfect for the game, since it's slow paced.
20110211 23:47:29< grzywacz> Multiplayer games with tight timers don't play well with slow paced chat
20110211 23:47:38< Soliton> it's a feature not a bug fix.
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20110211 23:47:53< Sirp__> it's a feature, and a feature that is unlikely to break anything else.
20110211 23:48:08< Sirp__> as such it's the kind of feature that (1) people who like it can do it and implement it; (2) everyone else can ignore it.
20110211 23:48:24< PetePorty> Hmmm...
20110211 23:48:40-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110211 23:49:03< PetePorty> So you're adding a potentially dangerous (although unlikely) feature that will be used by an extremely low ammount of users?
20110211 23:49:27< Sirp__> I don't think "potentially dangerous" is a very fair characterization.
20110211 23:49:46< grzywacz> It wouldn't be the first feature that "would" be used by "extremely" low number of users.
20110211 23:49:47< PetePorty> I did say it was highly unlikely.
20110211 23:50:26< fendrin> I guess that ladder players playing in a team do use teamspeak already.
20110211 23:50:33< Sirp__> most anything is "potentially dangerous" if you mention it's "unlikely"
20110211 23:50:45< fendrin> voice over ip is extremly helpful when playing in a team.
20110211 23:50:50< grzywacz> ^
20110211 23:51:06< PetePorty> Well, ok, go ahead.
20110211 23:51:21< PetePorty> Will you be coding it? When can we expect this to be out?
20110211 23:51:32< Gambit> PetePorty: Stop being so disrespectful.
20110211 23:51:43< PetePorty> Gambit: What do you mean?
20110211 23:51:55< Sirp__> PetePorty: I don't have any intentions to code it at the current time.
20110211 23:52:02< PetePorty> :/
20110211 23:52:07< Sirp__> this discussion started because I speculated on whether a student could do it.
20110211 23:52:10< fendrin> But it would make a nice gsoc proposal.
20110211 23:52:11< noy> lets not have voice chat
20110211 23:52:25< noy> we have enough work as is moderating a text chat system
20110211 23:52:32< noy> and I don't see some pressing need for this
20110211 23:52:50< Sirp__> noy: if someone wants to implement it we can have it.
20110211 23:53:14< Sirp__> we're certainly not going to moderate it, though.
20110211 23:53:24< noy> we certainly will have to moderate it
20110211 23:53:30< Sirp__> no.
20110211 23:53:40< noy> someone comes to me and says "this person has been harassing me"
20110211 23:53:52< noy> do I go and say, oh well, too bad for you
20110211 23:54:01< grzywacz> exactly, and you do nothing
20110211 23:54:01< Sirp__> voice chat will not go through the server.
20110211 23:54:04< grzywacz> "don't talk with them anymore"
20110211 23:54:16< noy> Yeah, well, I wish that was so easy to do grzywacz 
20110211 23:54:18< Sirp__> so it's outside jurisdiction of server moderators.
20110211 23:54:21< noy> unfortunately its not
20110211 23:54:24< grzywacz> noy, why?
20110211 23:54:31< Soliton> same as you tell people to use /ignore now.
20110211 23:54:40< Sirp__> if someone says "I gave this person my skype ID and they are harassing me" do you intervene?
20110211 23:54:44< grzywacz> Except you would have to *accept* a voice chat.
20110211 23:54:45< noy> Because the server isn't some cut and dry system of conversation
20110211 23:54:47< Gambit> Because when you build the service into Wesnoth, it implies that we have some responsibility.
20110211 23:54:51< noy> people have previous relationships and the like
20110211 23:54:51< grzywacz> Whereas text is accepted by default.
20110211 23:54:52< Gambit> Sirp__: skype isn't built into Wesnoth
20110211 23:55:05< Gambit> It's not a service we explicitly provide to them.
20110211 23:55:10< Sirp__> Gambit: no, we distribute it with the GPL which specifically disclaims responsibility very clearly.
20110211 23:55:11< noy> its really messy as it is. 
20110211 23:55:21< grzywacz> I think you're taking your "moderation" responsibilities too broadly.
20110211 23:55:24< noy> And making it more messy is just an effort in stupidity. 
20110211 23:55:31< zookeeper> how would voice chat work with team games? if you only allow player-to-player then teams cannot use voice chat to coordinate well.
20110211 23:55:50< noy> I think you don't know what you're talking about grzywacz 
20110211 23:55:55< noy> truth be told
20110211 23:56:01< Gambit> Sirp__: Right but nasty, unmoderated voice chat then becomes associated with Wesnoth.
20110211 23:56:03< Sirp__> zookeeper: how often do people play team games with more than 2 players on a team?
20110211 23:56:14< grzywacz> zookeeper, technically? one of the players would have to relay the data
20110211 23:56:25< grzywacz> zookeeper, or full broadcast
20110211 23:56:28< deekay> Doesn't really matter, I'd say  "You have voice chat but it's your problem, not ours, if you accept 'call' from someone retarded"
20110211 23:56:31< zookeeper> Sirp__, well, that's true
20110211 23:57:20< zookeeper> grzywacz, no, i meant what's required for activating team voice chat. if only the players who allow voice chat get it, then one player can be left out of the loop.
20110211 23:57:42< loonycyborg> Do any FOSS games have voicechat, anyway?
20110211 23:57:45< zookeeper> and also if all players must allow it, then one player can prevent the team from getting voice chat
20110211 23:57:57< deekay> But I also see some issues, like when we can use voise chat - only inside single team? broadly? as observers?
20110211 23:58:04< zookeeper> just something to think about.
20110211 23:58:34< grzywacz> zookeeper, that's an interface issue, yeah.
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20110211 23:58:58< zookeeper> maybe rather integrate a speech-to-text system? ;P
20110211 23:59:02< grzywacz> xD
20110211 23:59:32< elias> loonybot: the mumble site lists one or two games
20110211 23:59:33< loonybot> error: 'the' does not name a type
20110211 23:59:40< elias> er, loonycyborg 
--- Log closed Sat Feb 12 00:00:07 2011