--- Log opened Sun Feb 27 00:00:10 2011
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20110227 00:03:17< CIA-57> anonymissimus * r48654 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Instead of forcefully checking for terrain, introduced [unstore_unit]ignore_passability= (def no) key as in [teleport]. Only in effect if find_vacant=yes.
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20110227 00:05:53< Ivanovic> just ran the image recompress that changes almost 10000 images
20110227 00:06:14< Ivanovic> the output of png_format_check.sh: RGBA: 10247 RGB: 10 Gray+A: 256 Gray: 0 Index+A: 0 Index: 0 Other: 0
20110227 00:06:23< Ivanovic> what do you think, should i commit this?
20110227 00:07:52< Ivanovic> it does save 2.2MB in the resulting tarball
20110227 00:08:01< Ivanovic> but the xdelta is increased from 4.4 to 15MB
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20110227 00:11:18< Ivanovic> people will love me for those updates when running svn up...
20110227 00:11:20< Ivanovic> ;)
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20110227 00:13:22< tomreyn> loonycyborg: and that's not an issue in terms of latency?
20110227 00:13:39< Ivanovic> tomreyn: wesnoth is not realtime
20110227 00:13:45< Ivanovic> so latency is not much of an issue at all
20110227 00:13:55< Ivanovic> let there be 5s delay, who cares?
20110227 00:14:12< tomreyn> right, that's acceptable
20110227 00:14:31< tomreyn> i mean, it doesn't matter
20110227 00:14:40< Ivanovic> even if you had 1min latency, it would not matter
20110227 00:14:57< tomreyn> right. thanks for your answers
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20110227 00:15:38< Ivanovic> directed to everyone swearing with the next svn up: consider that it likely takes me longer to upload this amount that it takes you to fetch it!
20110227 00:16:05< eoc> (:
20110227 00:20:53< Ivanovic> done! juhu!
20110227 00:21:17< Ivanovic> so downloading just takes some maybe 20MB, noth the full 120!
20110227 00:21:32< CIA-57> ivanovic * r48655 /trunk/ (9778 files in 295 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20110227 00:21:32< CIA-57> ran utils/wesnoth-optipng
20110227 00:21:32< CIA-57> NOTE: Extremely many files received (smaller) changes but due to the extremely large amount of changes I am not 100% sure that this conversion is correct. This is the output of utils/png_format_check.sh:
20110227 00:21:32< CIA-57> RGBA: 10247 RGB: 10 Gray+A: 256 Gray: 0 Index+A: 0 Index: 0 Other: 0
20110227 00:21:32< CIA-57> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20110227 00:21:33< CIA-57> Original size: 128949 KiB on 9778 files
20110227 00:21:34< CIA-57> Optimized size: 125813 KiB
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20110227 00:47:53< grzywacz> Ivanovic, since these were pngs it would be fairly trivial to write a script that would go over them and compare pixel-per-pixel
20110227 00:48:03< grzywacz> Ivanovic, rather than relying on people reporting broken images
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20110227 01:02:51< grzywacz> Ivanovic, short scripts shows 201 images with changed pixel data
20110227 01:02:54< grzywacz> *script
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20110227 01:19:40< grzywacz> Ivanovic, images/cursors-bw/attack_drag_alt.png is clearly broken
20110227 01:21:08< Espreon> grzywacz: In game you mean?
20110227 01:21:30< grzywacz> Espreon, in png viewing software
20110227 01:21:47< grzywacz> images/cursors-bw/move_drag_alt.png, images/cursors-bw/wait-alt.png, images/cursors-bw/select.png, images/cursors-bw/select-illegal.png, images/cursors-bw/wait.png, images/cursors-bw/move.png, images/cursors-bw/select-location.png, images/cursors-bw/attack.png
20110227 01:21:55< Espreon> Looks fine in FF, for some reason.
20110227 01:22:42< grzywacz> Espreon, compare to previous version?
20110227 01:24:01< Espreon> Yupperz.
20110227 01:24:14< grzywacz> Weird, look different in gqview ;)
20110227 01:24:24< Espreon> Wait.
20110227 01:24:39< Espreon> Never mind, it's broken.
20110227 01:24:49< Espreon> I was looking at 48651.
20110227 01:25:58< Espreon> grzywacz: I wonder what happened. It was changed in 48651 and then it just changed.
20110227 01:26:22< grzywacz> Espreon, r48655?
20110227 01:26:45< Espreon> Yes, that is head. But it changed in 48651.
20110227 01:26:53< Espreon> ... as well.
20110227 01:27:27< grzywacz> Espreon, Ivanovics evil commit named "updated Slovakian translation" that he used to change some pngs along ;p
20110227 01:27:37< grzywacz> (r48651)
20110227 01:27:43< grzywacz> Ivanovic, please revert both
20110227 01:28:07< Espreon> Well, yeah, but I wonder what he did there.
20110227 01:28:31< grzywacz> Probably was experimenting with optipng.
20110227 01:28:51< grzywacz> No idea how you commit over 2k changed files and not notice it though. ;)
20110227 01:28:58< Espreon> Yeah.
20110227 01:29:23< eoc> <CIA-57> ivanovic * r48651 /trunk/ (749 files in 28 dirs): updated Slovak translation
20110227 01:30:17< grzywacz> eoc, sorry, I meant lines in the notification message
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20110227 02:15:23< Espreon> shadowmaster: Do you know where the code for the terrain feature-naming feature is?
20110227 02:19:27< Espreon> shadowmaster: If you don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I mean the feature that creates random names for specific features on a multiplayer map.
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20110227 03:19:22< iwontbecreative_> Ivanovic: It's probably not very important, but in scenario 1 of Two Brothers the dark sorcerer is once called "adept", it's a bit confusing since there might be other adepts in the battlefield
20110227 03:20:05< iwontbecreative_> It might be to avoid a repetition, but we only use dark mage, not dark sorcerer or sorcerer, so no problems there
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20110227 08:11:38< Sirp> So are there any decent multiplayer campaigns available for Wesnoth yet?
20110227 08:15:26-!- GeorgeSebastian [~georgeSeb@unaffiliated/georgesebastian] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110227 08:20:58< Espreon> Maybe.
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20110227 08:51:25< shadowmaster> Who was it that once suggested the possibility of naming a necromancer Mal-Icious?
20110227 08:51:31< shadowmaster> http://forums.wesnoth.org/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=125468 ;)
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20110227 08:52:13< mordante> servus
20110227 08:55:12 * mordante hopes r48655 doesn't need to be reverted...
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20110227 08:58:02< mordante> reading the log further it seems my hope was in vain
20110227 08:58:53< mordante> grzywacz would it be en idea to add your test script to the optigen script?
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20110227 09:09:28< mordante> Sirp, no idea, I also wonder how well the engine handles them, there were issues with that in the past as well
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20110227 09:10:40< shadowmaster> why not ask that fabi/fendrin guy
20110227 09:10:56< shadowmaster> I've heard he's been wroking on extending a certain mainline campaign with elves for MP gameplay since 1.7.x
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20110227 09:11:44< shadowmaster> he also seems to have spammed my- er, our forums with feedback threads about it
20110227 09:14:11< fabi> shadowmaster: ><((((º>
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20110227 09:14:32<@shadowmaster> hmmmm, it's too tempting
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20110227 09:14:48< shadowmaster> I'll just fix my /ignore list instead. Thank you for the notification!
20110227 09:18:17< Aethaeryn> So who runs the Lua stuff?
20110227 09:18:25< Aethaeryn> And do they use IRC?
20110227 09:18:42< mordante> what do you mean with runs?
20110227 09:18:51< Aethaeryn> Sorry.
20110227 09:19:23< Aethaeryn> Who's an acceptable mentor for GSoC if I were to apply to work on the Wesnoth-to-Lua interface stuff?
20110227 09:19:55< fabi> Aethaeryn: maybe crab_
20110227 09:20:00< Aethaeryn> I want more features in my add-ons, so being selfish, I wish to finally do some mainline work by making the Lua have more features.
20110227 09:20:01< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: silene would have been it one month ago.
20110227 09:20:10< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I am aware.
20110227 09:20:31< Aethaeryn> fabi: Ah, crab_. I've talked to him before about GSoC. Had a different proposal back then because it was almost a year ago.
20110227 09:20:37< Aethaeryn> But this Lua stuff is definitely an itch I want to scratch.
20110227 09:20:42< shadowmaster> if you read the ML you'll notice there's no permanent replacement yet.
20110227 09:20:44< Aethaeryn> Perhaps I can implement things he wants in Lua
20110227 09:20:47< mordante> IIRC we asked silene last year whether he wanted to mentor, and he wasn't interested in mentoring
20110227 09:20:56< mordante> but best ask Crab_
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20110227 09:21:14< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: It doesn't need to be some Official Wesnoth Lua Guy, just anyone capable of mentoring.
20110227 09:21:19< Aethaeryn> Who wants some Lua work done that'll take all summer.
20110227 09:21:21< Aethaeryn> Lua/C
20110227 09:21:35< Aethaeryn> I haven't done C, but I've done Python, Lua, Java, and C++.
20110227 09:21:43< Aethaeryn> So a fifth language should be trivial.
20110227 09:21:45< fabi> hi mordante, real life cought me somehow. I still have the new gui lists on my TODO.
20110227 09:21:46< mordante> we also determine who mentors what depending on the tasks at hand
20110227 09:21:48< Aethaeryn> Wait, is it C or C++?
20110227 09:21:52< shadowmaster> C++
20110227 09:21:56< Aethaeryn> hmm
20110227 09:22:01< shadowmaster> the lua library is in C (atm)
20110227 09:22:13< shadowmaster> the interface with Wesnoth is in C++ for obvious reasons
20110227 09:22:18< Aethaeryn> Yes.
20110227 09:22:21< mordante> fabi, when can I expect it, at the moment you're blocking a part of my GUI2 development
20110227 09:22:43 * Espreon 's jaw drops
20110227 09:23:00< Espreon> GUI2 development is being blocked?
20110227 09:23:02< Espreon> Oh noez.
20110227 09:23:24< mordante> a part I want to work on yes
20110227 09:23:26< shadowmaster> unfortunate indeed.
20110227 09:23:47< Aethaeryn> Most of the stuff I've done has been a mix of Java, Lua, and Python, but I am familiar with C++ and will brush up on it if that's what I have to work with
20110227 09:23:54< Aethaeryn> That's why several months' warning is good :-)
20110227 09:24:30< mordante> Aethaeryn, but also out of GSoC you're allowed to work on it ;-)
20110227 09:24:49< TronPaul> get started learning the codebase now
20110227 09:24:56< TronPaul> its what I'm doing
20110227 09:25:00< Aethaeryn> mordante: Either way, I'll need a "mentor"... I don't want to randomly be poking around without knowing what I'm doing.
20110227 09:25:03< Aethaeryn> I can do that on my add-ons.
20110227 09:25:06< Aethaeryn> Not on someone else's code.
20110227 09:25:16 * TronPaul wonders if going a bit more indepth with moveover would be a GSoC
20110227 09:25:49< fabi> mordante: I am busy till tuesday (not included). So I promise to have a look at tuesday.
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20110227 09:25:56< mordante> Aethaeryn, so? come here and ask us the questions you want to know we like to help new contributors on their way, also outside the gsoc scope
20110227 09:27:10< Aethaeryn> Either way I'll probably work on it because some stuff about the way the Lua is implemented annoys me and I have about 4-5 add-ons I need to finish with all the fancy event stuff done in Lua.
20110227 09:27:26< Aethaeryn> But if there's a way to be paid $5000 to do what I'd do anyway, then everyone walks away a winner.
20110227 09:27:43< shadowmaster> 05:02:20 <Aethaeryn> I definitely need the $5k
20110227 09:27:49< shadowmaster> ;)
20110227 09:28:02< shadowmaster> hey, I could use that too
20110227 09:28:03< Aethaeryn> I'm a college student in America, so I'm automatically more than $5k in debt already. :-P
20110227 09:28:07< TronPaul> heh
20110227 09:28:15< Aethaeryn> All y'all in socialist states graduate with $0 in debt
20110227 09:28:17< TronPaul> everyone could use 5k
20110227 09:28:19< Aethaeryn> Us Americans start in the red
20110227 09:28:28< mordante> the idea of the $5000 is that you spend the summer on coding instead of flipping burgers ;-)
20110227 09:28:39< TronPaul> flip bits not burgers
20110227 09:28:49< Aethaeryn> Actually, I'm going to be taking a math class over the summer, so I'd like to work at home
20110227 09:29:10< Aethaeryn> So I don't have to work in a ton of transportation
20110227 09:29:17< Aethaeryn> I don't have a car.
20110227 09:29:45< Aethaeryn> It's either GSoC or make apps on Android and hope someone buys them.
20110227 09:30:13< shadowmaster> port Wesnoth to Android! ;)
20110227 09:30:18< TronPaul> heh
20110227 09:30:21< shadowmaster> oh wait, that's probably taken by Kyle
20110227 09:30:22< TronPaul> cccccombo
20110227 09:30:25< shadowmaster> try Frogatto ;)
20110227 09:30:36< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: I was considering porting Wesnoth to Android, but yes, that is taken.
20110227 09:31:04< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: And even then, I was going see if there would be something about it that would be GSoC-worthy
20110227 09:31:15< mordante> did Kyle finish the job?
20110227 09:31:45< shadowmaster> "The "official" Android port is in the final stages of testing now, just waiting to get my hands on some real devices, so it should only be another few weeks..."
20110227 09:31:55< shadowmaster> he said that last December
20110227 09:32:56< mordante> ah ok, so no eta
20110227 09:36:28< TronPaul> I'd really love to make MoveOver a GSoC, since there are a lot of inherent problems with implementing it
20110227 09:37:01< shadowmaster> maybe you could drop an email with your proposal to the ML?
20110227 09:37:18< TronPaul> ML?
20110227 09:37:26< shadowmaster> developers' mailing list
20110227 09:37:31< TronPaul> ahhh mmk
20110227 09:37:42< TronPaul> well right now I'm looking over what it would entail
20110227 09:37:47< TronPaul> so I can make a proposal
20110227 09:37:56< TronPaul> discussing the problems on the forum
20110227 09:59:58< Aethaeryn> Does anyone have any particular issues with the Wesnoth-Lua interface or some obviously missing feature?
20110227 10:00:44< shadowmaster> I only know that exporting *methods* cannot be more trivial.
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20110227 10:09:33< shadowmaster> boucman: would you happen to know why the gamemap rendering (With animated units, etc.) seems faster in replay mode than in regular gameplay?
20110227 10:10:17< shadowmaster> I just noticed with the test scenario the other day that in replay mode scrolling was *really* smooth whereas it was as jerky as always in gameplay, both using the initial turn 1 state
20110227 10:10:21< boucman> shadowmaster: I'm not even sure the animation code actually knows when it's in replay mode
20110227 10:11:45< boucman> I could see multiple causes, including loading images from disk on your first test, or the game logic taking lot of CPU and leaving little to the animation engine, but I can't think of anything in the animation engine that would explain that
20110227 10:12:48< shadowmaster> I'd say the disk I/O option, while relevant otherwise, doesn't apply to this case.
20110227 10:13:11< shadowmaster> maybe I'll try to profile this "soon"
20110227 10:13:32< boucman> yes, that seems the way to go...
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20110227 10:18:45< Ivanovic> moin
20110227 10:19:43< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20110227 10:20:17< mordante> shadowmaster, there might be some SDL_Delay calls which are not called in replay mode
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20110227 10:20:37< boucman> mordante: hmm, good catch
20110227 10:20:42< mordante> IIRC we have some 20 ms delay sprinkled throughout the code
20110227 10:20:49< boucman> mordante: I have a small visual glitch in trunk
20110227 10:21:15< mordante> where?
20110227 10:21:22< boucman> when creating a 9p local game map with only AIs, in the player selection screen
20110227 10:21:40< boucman> the bottom of the scroller for player selection has a bright green area at the bottom
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20110227 10:24:43< boucman> ok, need to reboot bbiam
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20110227 10:28:07< mordante> boucman, can't reproduce it :-(
20110227 10:28:26< boucman> mkay...
20110227 10:28:33< mordante> but it also is a gui1 dialog, so slated to be replaced at some point
20110227 10:29:23< boucman> oh, no matter then
20110227 10:29:28< boucman> I thought it was gui2
20110227 10:30:09< mordante> no alas :-(
20110227 10:30:28< boucman> are there many gui1 dialogs left ?
20110227 10:31:37< Espreon> Probably at least one hundred.
20110227 10:31:53< Espreon> Which is sad, for GUI1 sucks.
20110227 10:32:01< mordante> Espreon, not even sure we have that many dialogs
20110227 10:32:25< Espreon> mordante: Note that when I say "at least one hundred", I typically mean "a lot".
20110227 10:32:33< mordante> boucman, yes a lot, the main problem is that the sizing engine fails hard with the MP lobby
20110227 10:32:38< mordante> Espreon, ok
20110227 10:33:05< mordante> first want to fix that issue and want to have a good look at the design of the listbox class
20110227 10:33:17< mordante> still not entirely happy with that
20110227 10:33:41< mordante> so the progress of replacing dialogs is rather low since I first want the engine underneath to run properly
20110227 10:34:09< mordante> once that's done I want to look at the dialogs, and for several dialogs I also want to look at their general design
20110227 10:34:25< mordante> how they look now, is that good or not or can we optimize it a bit more
20110227 10:34:33< Espreon> Hmmm... I wonder if GUI2 can properly render hieroglyphs.
20110227 10:34:47< mordante> especially make a difference for larger and smaller screens
20110227 10:34:53< Espreon> Hieroglyphs lie in a fairly-recent range.
20110227 10:34:57< mordante> Espreon, the question is, can pango do that
20110227 10:35:40< Espreon> Yes, it can.
20110227 10:35:57< mordante> guess then gui2 should be able to as well
20110227 10:36:01< Espreon> Yay.
20110227 10:36:39< mordante> but obviously I never test these strange things ;-)
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20110227 10:37:26< Espreon> Well, our precious runes render properly, thus all is well.
20110227 10:38:05< boucman> gabba just contributed this http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Whiteboard_2011
20110227 10:39:41< mordante> I wonder does he want to apply himself or not?
20110227 10:43:48< boucman> no, he won't be able to this summer
20110227 10:44:35< mordante> :-(
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20110227 10:52:40< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=480538#p480538 ... Really?
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20110227 10:55:58< mordante> Espreon, hard to tell without further information
20110227 10:56:54< Espreon> mordante: What the hell is that supposed to mean?
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20110227 10:58:26< mordante> Espreon, he claims a bug, but no information regarding how to reproduce
20110227 10:58:54< Espreon> LOL, wut?
20110227 10:59:15< Espreon> That post doesn't mention a bug at all.
20110227 11:01:05< mordante> "I have noticed a statistics bug in campaigns."
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20110227 11:03:22< Espreon> mordante: The post below.
20110227 11:03:46< mordante> ah ok
20110227 11:03:47< Ivanovic> hmm, something with the magic scripts is not working correctly
20110227 11:03:47< Espreon> Your screen must be too big for the anchor to have much effect.
20110227 11:03:56< Ivanovic> currently this is *all* the content of the ideas page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas
20110227 11:04:19< Ivanovic> basically nothing, even though there are some idea pages by now (okay, only 4 and most really basic, but that is better than nothing...)
20110227 11:05:01< Ivanovic> grzywacz: if it is this easy to compare the images for pixel differences, why is this not part of the existing scripts?
20110227 11:05:02< mordante> Espreon, might be the cause
20110227 11:05:13< Espreon> gui2 development storm...
20110227 11:05:29< mordante> ?
20110227 11:05:39< Espreon> ... an idea...
20110227 11:07:14< mordante> development storm... ? what's that supposed to mean?
20110227 11:07:20< Espreon> ...
20110227 11:07:25< Espreon> Think about it.
20110227 11:08:43 * mordante gives up
20110227 11:08:53< Espreon> ...
20110227 11:09:02< grzywacz> Ivanovic, no idea why you ask me. :-)
20110227 11:09:19< Ivanovic> [10:17:36] <grzywacz> [00:47:53] Ivanovic, since these were pngs it would be fairly trivial to write a script that would go over them and compare pixel-per-pixel
20110227 11:09:22< Ivanovic> [10:17:36] <grzywacz> [01:02:50] Ivanovic, short scripts shows 201 images with changed pixel data
20110227 11:09:28< Ivanovic> thats why
20110227 11:09:29< Espreon> mordante: The idea is that someone would aid you with GUI2 development in some form.
20110227 11:09:47< grzywacz> Ivanovic, well, sure, but why would I know why nobody bothered to write one prior to running optipng? I don't use that tool, so I have no need for a script to check its results.
20110227 11:10:09< grzywacz> Ivanovic, if you're trying to ask if I'll add my script to the repo, then yes, I can do that. :p
20110227 11:10:17< Ivanovic> see it as hint in regards to "please add to wesnoth-optipng"
20110227 11:10:40< grzywacz> Ivanovic, git friendly or svn friendly, or..?
20110227 11:10:50< grzywacz> Ivanovic, right now it needed some manual preparation.
20110227 11:11:06< Ivanovic> grzywacz: neither, make it right inside wesnoth-optipng when the images are being compressed
20110227 11:11:16< Ivanovic> so after compressing them, compare that they are identical
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20110227 11:11:27< grzywacz> Ivanovic, fair enough.
20110227 11:11:30< Ivanovic> (then you got both images, the old one as well as the .new image)
20110227 11:12:52< grzywacz> Ivanovic, I assume you're ok wrt adding a python dependency to it?
20110227 11:13:17< Ivanovic> since this is required for many script anyway: yeah, why not
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20110227 11:13:30< Ivanovic> you could also just add the python script and call that script from wesnoth-optipng
20110227 11:13:42< CIA-57> ivanovic * r48656 /trunk/ (10508 files in 316 dirs): revert r48655 and the image part of r48651 (the intended translation/changelog part is still left)
20110227 11:14:00< grzywacz> Cool. I'll figure out a nice way to do it.
20110227 11:14:59< mordante> Espreon, ah ok, well I already explained you a while ago, that at the moment I don't have a task which can be 'exported'
20110227 11:16:29< Espreon> Blargh...
20110227 11:19:51< mordante> ?
20110227 11:20:39< Espreon> An interjection of annoyance, sadness, and so forth.
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20110227 11:29:49< Espreon> boucman: http://imagebin.org/140147 ... Blargh... Look at the fire elemental.
20110227 11:30:45< boucman> woudl that be the fiery thingy on the lower right corner ?
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20110227 11:31:03< Espreon> Yes.
20110227 11:33:08< boucman> is the problem the difference of luminosity on the upper right hex ?
20110227 11:33:53< Espreon> Yes.
20110227 11:35:17< boucman> hmm
20110227 11:35:53< boucman> any clue how you got it to work that way ?
20110227 11:36:03< Espreon> It's just like that.
20110227 11:36:20< Espreon> I did nothing special.
20110227 11:39:43< grzywacz> boucman, http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33134&p=480556#p480556
20110227 11:42:55< boucman> grzywacz: let's put it that way: providing a "stream" of info from our server to allow real time processing would give a tool external users could use creatively, and probably more easily than parsing the log
20110227 11:43:28< boucman> thinking of a way to have the server know who the winner is when someone leaves in the middle would be nice too
20110227 11:45:56< grzywacz> boucman, yes, the interface needs some changes to change "quit game" to "forfeit" in multiplayer context, possibly even a dialog to ask for a draw, etc.
20110227 11:46:17< boucman> hmm
20110227 11:46:39< boucman> that could do a GSoC project ?
20110227 11:46:51< grzywacz> boucman, regarding streaming.... one has to judge whether real time processing of this data adds more benefit than maintenance overhead it adds :)
20110227 11:47:01< boucman> differentiating forfait/call for draw/player disconnects/both players agree to save and continue later
20110227 11:47:11< boucman> true
20110227 11:47:20< grzywacz> Sure, but I'm not really sure how much work that would be. Maybe GSoC-worthy.
20110227 11:52:40< timotei> hmm, interesting. gabba is offering to mentor this year?:)
20110227 11:59:13< boucman> no, he will have no time for gsoc this year, but he still want WB to advance, thus the proposal
20110227 11:59:23< boucman> he'll try to stick around IRC, though IIUC
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20110227 11:59:40< timotei> oh. nice
20110227 11:59:50< grzywacz> hey deekay 
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20110227 12:00:04< deekay> hi there
20110227 12:00:38-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110227 12:00:39< timotei> hi deekay 
20110227 12:08:01-!- eoc` is now known as eoc
20110227 12:10:35< CIA-57> grzywacz * r48658 /trunk/utils/wesnoth-optipng: 
20110227 12:10:36< CIA-57> Integrated compare_images.py with wesnoth-optipng.
20110227 12:10:36< CIA-57> Currently it's optional and won't stop processing if any
20110227 12:10:36< CIA-57> differences are found.
20110227 12:10:38< CIA-57> grzywacz * r48657 /trunk/utils/compare_images.py: 
20110227 12:10:38< CIA-57> Script to compare images pixel-by-pixel for optipng validation.
20110227 12:10:38< CIA-57> Requires Python and PIL.
20110227 12:10:39< grzywacz> Ivanovic, enjoy
20110227 12:11:02< Ivanovic> grzywacz: how are those results shown?
20110227 12:11:19< Ivanovic> having them "inline" with the rest does not make too much sense, since there are some 10k images processed
20110227 12:11:31< grzywacz> Ivanovic, only images that differ are listed
20110227 12:11:33< Ivanovic> so it might make sense to redirect the output to some temp file and tell the user to check for the output
20110227 12:11:59< Ivanovic> grzywacz: run wesnoth-optipng (starting it from the root of trunk), you will be swamped with several thousand lines of terminal output
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20110227 12:13:14< Ivanovic> and: is this step parallelized?
20110227 12:13:33< Ivanovic> you know, comparing 10k files might take a while, so having all my six cores used sounds like a good idea to me
20110227 12:13:53< Ivanovic> basically: would it not be better to add this step right after compressing the image?
20110227 12:14:06< Ivanovic> resulting in basically this workflow:
20110227 12:14:09< Ivanovic> 1) compress image
20110227 12:14:20< Ivanovic> 2) check that new and old are identical on a pixel level
20110227 12:14:40< Ivanovic> if this check is okay, continue, if not, remove the new one
20110227 12:15:59< grzywacz> Well, feel free to add some multiprocessing if you find it too slow.
20110227 12:16:47< grzywacz> It wouldn't be better to run it per image, because you'd pay the overhead of starting the python interpreter, including importing modules, with each image
20110227 12:16:52< grzywacz> Comparing them at the end is much faster.
20110227 12:16:58< Ivanovic> hmmm
20110227 12:17:39< Ivanovic> then how to parallize stuff in a python script?
20110227 12:17:59< Ivanovic> since yeah, having it all in a single thread sucks for such a huge amount of files to compare
20110227 12:18:26< Ivanovic> (hey, even without the comparison and spread over 6 threads (and cores) wesnoth-optipng runs for about 40mins)
20110227 12:19:00< grzywacz> Ivanovic, I ran it yesterday and it took maybe 15 seconds or so on all the wesnoth images
20110227 12:19:08< grzywacz> Are you sure it needs to be faster? :P
20110227 12:22:32< Ivanovic> okay, that is fast
20110227 12:23:17< Ivanovic> now i'd just like to have a way to print the changed files into some text file (the ones with differing changes) and "remove" those automatically, so that they are not commited
20110227 12:23:24< grzywacz> sure
20110227 12:23:31< grzywacz> testing right now, will commit... soon
20110227 12:24:07< Ivanovic> i'll be off now for at least the next 4 hours
20110227 12:24:09< Ivanovic> cu
20110227 12:32:14< timotei> Ivanovic: yeah, I've seen too that there are no ideas listed. and I'm trying to investigate why it's happening
20110227 12:36:28< timotei> Ivanovic: and it seems I discovered the problem.
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20110227 12:45:41< timotei> Ivanovic, mordante, boucman  a new ideas page *should* have the =Description= which is included in the SummerOfCodeIdeas page. If there isn't any in the idea page, it won't be included.
20110227 12:46:02< timotei> I've edited current not listed ideas, to conform that, and you can see them now here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas
20110227 12:48:36< boucman> timotei: done for WB
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20110227 12:58:39< mordante> thanks for fixing it timotei 
20110227 12:59:53< mordante> maybe also add the info to the template, I was looking for info regarding using it yesterday and didn't find anything
20110227 13:00:06< mordante> so just added it like I did
20110227 13:01:08< timotei> oh. good point
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20110227 13:05:36< mordante> btw what are your plans for GSoC this year timotei ?
20110227 13:05:57< timotei> mordante: well, since it's just my 2nd year in faculty, I guess I'll apply again for GSoC as a student :)
20110227 13:06:29< timotei> initially I've planned to work more on the eclipse plugin if I not find another interesting topics/orgs :D
20110227 13:07:14< mordante> well would be nice to get the eclipse plugin done
20110227 13:07:23< mordante> not sure how finished it is at the moment
20110227 13:08:10< timotei> well, more on less. my point is, it depends a bit on the schema.cfg, especially for autocomplete things.
20110227 13:08:50< timotei> but it's useable, even though I did't do any "how-to-use" videos that would increase it usage. not to mention that is targeted for 1.9.x, and there aren't many UMC devs on that
20110227 13:09:39< mordante> well there are several using 1.9.x for UMC
20110227 13:10:29< timotei> ok, I've done the template of the idea page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas2011_Template
20110227 13:10:38< timotei> let's link it to main page
20110227 13:17:17< mordante> ok thanks
20110227 13:17:32< timotei> yw
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20110227 14:10:33< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions | Re: GSoC 2011 idea - Ladder by grzywacz at 02-27-2011 10:39:33 http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=33134&p=480556#p480556
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20110227 14:24:39< grzywacz> janebot, what? :)
20110227 14:24:39< janebot> grzywacz: I refuse to answer that.
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20110227 14:32:16< CIA-57> grzywacz * r48659 /trunk/utils/wesnoth-optipng: Save the list of broken files to a temporary file.
20110227 14:32:18< CIA-57> grzywacz * r48660 /trunk/utils/compare_images.py: Fixed vim modeline, removed unusued import.
20110227 14:33:00< timotei> grzywacz: janebot just "reports" new forum posts:)
20110227 14:33:22< timotei> grzywacz: coincidentaly, you were the one who posted that xD
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20110227 14:35:57< grzywacz> timotei, I'm just mocking it for reporting old posts :P
20110227 14:36:14< grzywacz> afk
20110227 14:36:19< timotei> grzywacz: oh. well yeah, it checks just from 10 to 10 mins :)
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20110227 14:51:51< Gambit> timotei: It also doesn't report while my computer is off :$
20110227 14:53:53< Gambit> Though if someone had a server with ~60mb of spare ram ;)
20110227 14:55:34< Gambit> Well… less if the bots weren't threaded.
20110227 14:56:04< Gambit> Perl threads are horridly inefficient for memory.
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20110227 15:40:56< anonymissimus> there was recently some discussion about what should be the defaults when placing units on locations
20110227 15:41:02< anonymissimus> IIRC
20110227 15:41:40< anonymissimus> the defaults should be to place on vacant passable hexes, even if far away
20110227 15:42:08< anonymissimus> I have lots of situations in wml or lua where I need additional code just to check the terrain
20110227 15:43:26< anonymissimus> execept for [unstore_unit], it should default to overwriting units since it's used to modify so often
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20110227 15:55:53< grzywacz> hi Gambit 
20110227 15:56:04< Gambit> Hello
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20110227 16:01:27< CIA-57> anonymissimus * r48661 /trunk/changelog: changelog entry for some previous revisions of mine
20110227 16:20:05< CIA-57> mordante * r48662 /trunk/src/ai/formula/ai.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:06< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:06< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:08< CIA-57> mordante * r48663 /trunk/src/font.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:09< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:09< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:10< CIA-57> mordante * r48664 /trunk/src/help.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:10< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:10< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:11< CIA-57> mordante * r48665 /trunk/src/mapgen_dialog.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:11< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:11< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:13< CIA-57> mordante * r48666 /trunk/src/serialization/string_utils.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:13< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:13< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:16< CIA-57> mordante * r48667 /trunk/src/server/forum_user_handler.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:16< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:16< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:21< CIA-57> mordante * r48668 /trunk/src/server/server.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:21< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:21< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:23< CIA-57> mordante * r48669 /trunk/src/tools/cutter.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:23< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:23< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:27< CIA-57> mordante * r48670 /trunk/src/tools/exploder.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:27< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:27< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:29< CIA-57> mordante * r48671 /trunk/src/tools/exploder_cutter.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:30< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:30< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:31< CIA-57> mordante * r48672 /trunk/src/whiteboard/move.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:31< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:31< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:20:34< CIA-57> mordante * r48673 /trunk/src/whiteboard/side_actions.cpp: 
20110227 16:20:34< CIA-57> Catch exception by reference.
20110227 16:20:34< CIA-57> Issue found by cppcheck.
20110227 16:23:54< timotei21> mordante: why is an issue for an exception being a value type rather than a reference?
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20110227 16:26:46< mordante> it's not a big issue, issue it part of my default script, catching by value copies the exception so slightly less efficient
20110227 16:27:23< mordante> but since cppcheck also finds a lot of valid problem I like to fix them all unless I disagree with them
20110227 16:27:56< mordante> (which most of the time involves me filing a bug report)
20110227 16:29:27< CIA-57> anonymissimus * r48674 /trunk/ (changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua): Introduced [move_unit]ignore_passability= (default no, previously it was always no/non-existant) key to allow disabling the check for suitable terrain.
20110227 16:37:14< CIA-57> mordante * r48675 /trunk/src/events.hpp: 
20110227 16:37:14< CIA-57> Remove a default argument.
20110227 16:37:14< CIA-57> The default was never used and it fixes compilation problems with SDL
20110227 16:37:14< CIA-57> 1.3.
20110227 16:38:14< timotei21> mordante: oh. ok :)
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20110227 16:51:07< anonymissimus> acutally, ignore_passability should have better be named check_passability or the like
20110227 16:51:25< anonymissimus> I hate negations in variable or key names, always confuses me :P
20110227 16:52:38< anonymissimus> but that was the fault of the one who introduced it in [teleport] :P
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20110227 17:01:36< anonymissimus> actually, I vote for renaming the key in [teleport] (and the other tags) as long as it's not released yet
20110227 17:07:19< shadowmaster> mordante: "there might be some SDL_Delay calls which are not called in replay mode" is that a bug or a feature? (I haven't checked yet)
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20110227 17:31:34-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [+o shadowmaster] by ChanServ
20110227 17:32:11-!- mode/#wesnoth-dev [-bo *!*@61.153.16.162 shadowmaster] by shadowmaster
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20110227 17:44:21< mordante> shadowmaster, not sure whether it's the case and if it is, not sure whether it's a bug or not, also didn't look at the code
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20110227 17:55:32< Ivanovic> re
20110227 18:00:48< timotei> wb Ivanovic 
20110227 18:01:38< Aethaeryn> wesbot: seen crab_
20110227 18:01:38< wesbot> Aethaeryn: The person with the nick Crab_ 2d 18h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20110227 18:02:02-!- TronPaul [~chatzilla@ppp-68-20-3-45.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110227 18:02:29< Aethaeryn> Who is responsible for the Lua stuff now?
20110227 18:03:12< Aethaeryn> I was told yesterday that perhaps crab_ could be a potential mentor, but iirc the guy who most distinctly did Lua quit and didn't want to mentor anyone anyway.
20110227 18:03:19< timotei> Aethaeryn: iirc you asked again :) I don't think there is anyone specific who does that.
20110227 18:03:45< timotei> Aethaeryn: but yeah, Crab_ and maybe anonymissimus could help you
20110227 18:03:57< Aethaeryn> Ah, okay.
20110227 18:04:20< Aethaeryn> And the code-base is in C++, right?
20110227 18:04:27< timotei> Aethaeryn: yep
20110227 18:04:55< anonymissimus> I'm not capable of mentoring anyone ;)
20110227 18:05:06< mordante> Aethaeryn, like you were told this morning there is no Lua maintainer anymore
20110227 18:05:25< Aethaeryn> mordante: Yes, which was 5 am for me so my head's still a bit tired
20110227 18:05:29< Aethaeryn> Stayed up too late.
20110227 18:05:41< anonymissimus> event if its me who edits the lua files now
20110227 18:05:59< mordante> yeah expected that, was a decent time for me
20110227 18:06:06< mordante> anonymissimus, do you want to maintain Lua?
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20110227 18:06:44< Aethaeryn> It's src/lua and src/scripting, right?
20110227 18:06:46< timotei> maybe invite a lua dev to take part in wesnoth dev? xD
20110227 18:07:27< mordante> Aethaeryn, src/lua mainly contains the Lua upstream so you probably don't need to edit that
20110227 18:08:46< Aethaeryn> hmm
20110227 18:09:12< Aethaeryn> 3549 lines in one file for lua.cpp?
20110227 18:09:52< mordante> some people like large files, others a lot of smaller files ;-)
20110227 18:10:14< anonymissimus> mordante: no, I'm struggling to understand things silene did
20110227 18:10:18< Aethaeryn> I'm told by my educators to break things down as small as possible.
20110227 18:10:23< Aethaeryn> For readability purposes.
20110227 18:10:28< anonymissimus> the C++ code mainly
20110227 18:10:39< anonymissimus> the lua files are ok i think
20110227 18:10:43< Aethaeryn> ah
20110227 18:10:47< mordante> Aethaeryn, but from what I've seen from silene's code is that it usually contains quite a bit of comment
20110227 18:10:48< Aethaeryn> There's also data/lua
20110227 18:11:31< mordante> some people have editors that automatically fold files (and like that)
20110227 18:11:41< mordante> then a file doesn't look that long
20110227 18:12:18< Aethaeryn> I'm familiar with having to do a ton of comments, maybe he'd just barely escape losing 10 points for not enough comments at my school. ;-)
20110227 18:12:41< Aethaeryn> I use emacs, though. Imo, programming should be done in emacs, vim, nano, etc.
20110227 18:12:50< Aethaeryn> I hate IDEs that practically code for you.
20110227 18:13:11< Aethaeryn> emacs has most of the IDE features but you have to work to find them. ;-)
20110227 18:13:29< mordante> I use vim and I know it can do folding, I just dislike it
20110227 18:13:31< timotei> Aethaeryn: I warn. don't start a emacs/vim is the best discussion xD
20110227 18:13:34 * anonymissimus is starting and editor war
20110227 18:13:56< shadowmaster> someone said editor?
20110227 18:13:57< shadowmaster> kate!
20110227 18:13:58< Aethaeryn> timotei: I'm not saying emacs is better than vim or vice versa.
20110227 18:13:58< timotei> damn, /s/warn/warn you
20110227 18:14:05< Aethaeryn> I'm just saying I prefer things like emacs/vim to things like Eclipse
20110227 18:14:07< timotei> Aethaeryn: you were impling :P
20110227 18:14:13< anonymissimus> too late
20110227 18:14:19 * mordante doesn't care which one it the best, I only care about which one _I_ like best for _my_ work
20110227 18:14:28< timotei> Aethaeryn: well... everyone uses what he feels confortable with it
20110227 18:14:37< shadowmaster> mordante: glood, because there's no universal choice
20110227 18:14:45< mordante> exactly
20110227 18:14:50< Aethaeryn> timotei: Yeah, it is all about taste.
20110227 18:14:51< shadowmaster> saying X is the best editor is like saying blue is the best color
20110227 18:15:00< timotei> shadowmaster: it is!
20110227 18:15:13< timotei> I mean, I love it 
20110227 18:15:27< Aethaeryn> This is the disadvantage of having it all in one file
20110227 18:15:28< loonycyborg> The best color is ultra-violet :P
20110227 18:15:34< Aethaeryn> Look at all of the #include at the top of lua.cpp
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20110227 18:15:45< Aethaeryn> I can't tell which parts use which hpp
20110227 18:15:46< TronPaul> a TA for a CS class I'm in spent half a lab bashing vim
20110227 18:15:56< TronPaul> it made me sad
20110227 18:16:00< shadowmaster> Aethaeryn: huh?
20110227 18:16:07< timotei> Aethaeryn: well... why you need that? 
20110227 18:16:13< Aethaeryn> timotei: My TA said "You use emacs? Cool. I do too." Even though my class kind of requires Eclipse, like in the lab stuff.
20110227 18:16:20< timotei> and that's NOT too much at all
20110227 18:16:50< Aethaeryn> I won't use Eclipse any more than I have to. I really don't like how much it automates.
20110227 18:16:54< timotei> Aethaeryn: the lab stuff teaches a "random" program, you are free to chose your own :)
20110227 18:17:00< shadowmaster> not sure why you'd try to associate "parts" to header files, but okay
20110227 18:17:19< timotei> Aethaeryn: and automating trivial and repeated stuff, really, it's very good
20110227 18:17:26< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: Well, how would you know if the header isn't used anymore if the file is that long?
20110227 18:17:30< Aethaeryn> Script?
20110227 18:17:33< shadowmaster> yes
20110227 18:17:39< shadowmaster> either that, or you don't care
20110227 18:17:42< Aethaeryn> timotei: yeeh, but automating closing { and ( and stuff is really, really annoying
20110227 18:17:43< shadowmaster> the latter is my M.O.
20110227 18:17:55< timotei> Aethaeryn: WHAT??
20110227 18:17:57< Aethaeryn> Something like emacs or vim automates repetitive stuff, but only after you explicitly enter a command
20110227 18:18:00< Aethaeryn> not *for* you
20110227 18:18:23< Aethaeryn> The out-of-the-box set up for eclipse is so annoying because my muscle memory of typing Java conflicts with its autocomplete stuff
20110227 18:18:31< Aethaeryn> So I get needless syntax errors
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20110227 18:18:34< timotei> Aethaeryn: I'm really wondering, I'm the only one here who loves aut-closing { ( " ' ?
20110227 18:18:48< TronPaul> timotei: yes
20110227 18:18:54< Aethaeryn> Well, I type words over 100 wpm and code over 80 wpm if it's something familiar
20110227 18:18:56< TronPaul> It always screws up my typing
20110227 18:19:05< Aethaeryn> like public static void main(String[] args) {
20110227 18:19:25< timotei> shadowmaster, mordante ^ what do you say about that auto-closing stuff?
20110227 18:19:25< Aethaeryn> So if I have that "memorized" in my hands, closing the [ or the ( or the { will screw me up
20110227 18:19:38< Aethaeryn> I wind up working slower
20110227 18:20:03< Aethaeryn> Oh, the other main reason I hate Eclipse is that it does too much through GUI
20110227 18:20:05< mordante> timotei, you mean when you type a ( you directly get a ) ?
20110227 18:20:06< TronPaul> NetBeans will let you type the ] and not input it
20110227 18:20:09< TronPaul> which is nice
20110227 18:20:11< timotei> mordante: yes.
20110227 18:20:27< TronPaul> but most of the time it's annoying
20110227 18:20:30< Aethaeryn> The reason I use irssi is because it's quicker to use keyboard-only than reach for a mouse. Same with programming with emacs
20110227 18:20:43< Aethaeryn> I want a million commands, and the ability to M-x everything else
20110227 18:20:59< Aethaeryn> So I don't have to touch the mouse if I don't want to.
20110227 18:21:13< Aethaeryn> Essentailly, my mouse is for gaming and web browsing.
20110227 18:21:13< mordante> timotei, I dislike it
20110227 18:22:01< mordante> gets in the way too often
20110227 18:22:49< timotei> I have that problem just with ' or " when doing php in eclipse.
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20110227 18:23:02< ancestral> Aethaeryn: You don't need a mouse for web browsing
20110227 18:23:41< TronPaul> because hitting tab through a million links is optimal
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20110227 18:23:50< shadowmaster> timotei: I say the same thing mordante said
20110227 18:23:53< shadowmaster> there's an option for it in my editor too
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20110227 18:24:07< TronPaul> I have used links for web browsing before
20110227 18:24:18< Aethaeryn> ancestral: unless it's lynx, I'm pretty sure there's something that has to be done with the mouse at some point
20110227 18:24:31< ancestral> Depends the kind of web browsing you're doing
20110227 18:24:53< timotei> Aethaeryn: you can use "no-mouse" on firefox also too. and it works pretty ok.
20110227 18:25:01< timotei> s/also too/too
20110227 18:25:25< Aethaeryn> timotei: tab and shift-tab is a bit slower on link selection than clicking
20110227 18:25:32< Aethaeryn> The whole point about me liking the keyboard is speed
20110227 18:25:52< timotei> Aethaeryn: then, allow me to say, you're not fast with the mouse then :)
20110227 18:25:56< Aethaeryn> I think the keyboard is faster when it comes to data creation of any kind (e.g. programming, IRC, etc.)
20110227 18:26:09< Aethaeryn> But data consuming... not so much.
20110227 18:26:35< Aethaeryn> timotei: Okay, you compile with menus and I'll compile with M-x compile and we'll see who is slightly faster
20110227 18:26:39< timotei> also, depends on your mouse settings. I set it to have maximum acceleration/speed, so I move the mouse very little :)
20110227 18:26:46< shadowmaster> IRC is not just about writing nonsense to channels
20110227 18:26:56< shadowmaster> most of the time I'm reading the "news" in the 63 channels I frequent
20110227 18:26:56< TronPaul> ewww mouse acceleration
20110227 18:27:00< TronPaul> heh
20110227 18:27:19< Aethaeryn> IRC is also entirely text.
20110227 18:27:22-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110227 18:27:45< Aethaeryn> Something like IRC or even email is much more Terminal-friendly than, say, gaming.
20110227 18:27:58< Aethaeryn> (Terminal or Konsole)
20110227 18:28:05< Aethaeryn> (Because I'm not trying to say one is superior.)
20110227 18:28:33< shadowmaster> I believe the term you are looking for is "text terminal"
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20110227 18:56:24< CIA-57> anonymissimus * r48676 /trunk/ (changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua src/game_events.cpp): 
20110227 18:56:24< CIA-57> Renamed ignore_passability= in [teleport], [move_unit] and [unstore_unit] to
20110227 18:56:24< CIA-57> check_passability= to get rid of the confusing negation as long as they're not
20110227 18:56:24< CIA-57> used yet. Adjusted default values accordingly. Breaks backwards compatibility in
20110227 18:56:24< CIA-57> case of [teleport], there are however no usages of the key in mainline wml.
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20110227 19:08:18< timotei21> oh dear, the big commit revert is still running for the past 10 mins
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20110227 22:14:14< mordante> I'm off night
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20110227 22:37:08< CIA-57> ivanovic * r48677 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Czech translation
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20110227 23:59:26-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.5 planned once the Khalifate are in | 185 bugs, 304 feature requests, 25 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://wesnoth.pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
--- Log closed Mon Feb 28 00:00:12 2011