--- Log opened Tue Mar 01 00:00:12 2011
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20110301 00:08:31< CIA-33> espreon * r48690 /trunk/src/language_win32.ii: Added Windows locale association for 'ga'.
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20110301 00:45:24< CIA-33> espreon * r48691 /trunk/src/language_win32.ii: Associate 'ga' and 'mr' with C for now.
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20110301 00:54:30< CIA-33> espreon * r48692 /trunk/src/language_win32.ii: Added associations for 'lv' and 'racv'.
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20110301 00:57:56< CIA-33> espreon * r48693 /trunk/src/language_win32.ii: Added an association for 'fur'.
20110301 01:13:18< eoc> Ivanovic: sorry for bothering again; you'll have some days without me after this :P -- are you okay with this description I (for now) added in the corresponding form? > http://paste.pocoo.org/show/M4lrIxe3E6hoyg0LB6de/
20110301 01:14:05< eoc> ah  I just copied two paragraphs together, this 'years' duplication will get fixed
20110301 01:20:04< Ivanovic> sounds good to me
20110301 01:20:13< Ivanovic> i'll be heading off to bed now though
20110301 01:21:05< eoc> okay, g'nite
20110301 01:21:15< Ivanovic> n8
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20110301 02:31:54< CIA-33> espreon * r48694 /branches/1.8/src/language_win32.ii: Ported most changes from trunk.
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20110301 03:33:08< CIA-33> espreon * r48695 /trunk/src/addon/manager.cpp: Don't bitch about the lack of an _info.cfg if '.hg' exists at the root of the addon.
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20110301 05:22:18< CIA-33> espreon * r48696 /trunk/data/languages/fur_IT.cfg: Made Friulian conform.
20110301 05:26:04< CIA-33> espreon * r48697 /trunk/data/languages/ (mr_IN.cfg zh_CN.cfg zh_TW.cfg): Remove diacritics from sort_names.
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20110301 06:02:01< CIA-33> espreon * r48698 /trunk/INSTALL: Cleaned up INSTALL.
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20110301 06:42:23< CIA-33> espreon * r48699 /trunk/po/ (19 files in 19 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
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20110301 06:47:32< CIA-33> espreon * r48700 /trunk/po/wesnoth-lib/en_GB.po: Fixed modified msgids.
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20110301 10:00:33< Ivanovic> moin
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20110301 11:23:26< CIA-33> ivanovic * r48701 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: fix "wrong" kind of apostroph in help textdomain
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20110301 11:24:01< CIA-33> ivanovic * r48702 /trunk/po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): updated Japanese translation
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20110301 11:25:25< timotei> morning
20110301 11:36:13< CIA-33> ivanovic * r48703 /trunk/ (632 files in 28 dirs): 
20110301 11:36:13< CIA-33> pot-update
20110301 11:36:13< CIA-33> regenerated doc files
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20110301 12:50:16< Aethaeryn> esr: I just got Gingerbread on my phone this morning.
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20110301 20:05:35< mordante> servus
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20110301 20:12:18< grzywacz> hi
20110301 20:13:00< mordante> hi grzywacz 
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20110301 20:26:41< iwontbecreative> Hi mordante :)
20110301 20:27:23< iwontbecreative> I have some work done (in my local repo) on the patch but won't be able to do much more today
20110301 20:27:51< iwontbecreative> But I'll read the logs so feel free to comment and criticize :)
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20110301 20:38:12< mordante> iwontbecreative, ok, also not sure how long I will be around today
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20110301 20:40:53< grzywacz> boucman, well done with that OpenMP patch, but doesn't look trivial - partly to #ifdef spam ;)
20110301 20:40:59< grzywacz> *but it
20110301 20:42:01< boucman> as I said, #ifdef is because of warnings on unknown pragmas, if we make a policy that the code should compile with unknown pragmas we could remove most/all the ifdef
20110301 20:42:42< mordante> well the C++ standard is rather clear on the subject
20110301 20:43:10< mordante> except that a compiler may do something else if it encounters the #omp pragma as we expect ;-)
20110301 20:43:57< mordante> not sure how well compilers implement that part of the standard properly
20110301 20:44:09< boucman> yes, that's why I ifdefed anything
20110301 20:44:32< boucman> but apart from that, overall I think it's a good way to get some multi-core perfs into wesnoth
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20110301 20:45:20< Nephro> Heya guys... Does anyone know wether wesnoth is running for GSoC this year?
20110301 20:45:33< mordante> I agree with that it probably is the easiest way to get it in
20110301 20:45:34< boucman> we plan to, but it's a bit early to tell
20110301 20:45:51< mordante> Nephro, no we will apply whether we participate depends on Google
20110301 20:46:36< mordante> Nephro, this is our GSoC site thusfar http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Category:Summer_of_Code_2011
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20110301 20:48:03< Nephro> I wanted to ask: I am a bit new to GSoC, but by reading the FAQ I got a feeling that if a project participates, it usually accepts users that are already in the project or at least with it for a long time... Therefore I wonder, whether I even have a chance to get the placement? Cause I haven't been with this community for a long time
20110301 20:48:39< grzywacz> boucman, aye, I know the reason - but it makes it more difficult to read nonetheless
20110301 20:49:13< boucman> grzywacz: well, I personally got used to "tuning out" the ifdefs when reading pretty fast
20110301 20:49:31< mordante> Nephro, we accept new contributors, in fact one of the ideas behind GSoC is to attract new contributors
20110301 20:49:45< boucman> Nephro: not really true, most of our students were new to the dev team... most of them had play the game before, but that's not event true for all of them
20110301 20:50:01< mordante> Nephro, we still have several contributors around here who joined the team due to GSoC
20110301 20:50:09< Nephro> mordante, so if I try to dive into the community just from now, I have a chance?
20110301 20:50:32< boucman> Nephro: assuming we're in, yes.
20110301 20:50:46< mordante> Nephro, yes
20110301 20:51:00< Nephro> I really liked your game, and really like C++, and my goal in uni is masters in game development. That's why wesnoth seems the most suitable one for me
20110301 20:51:30< mordante> nice :-)
20110301 20:51:42< mordante> you played Wesnoth before?
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20110301 20:52:19< Nephro> I played wesnoth a year ago, but then I kinda stopped gaming, because I needed to prepare for exams very well, in order to get into the university I want
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20110301 20:52:48< mordante> ok
20110301 20:53:03< mordante> do you know what area of Wesnoth you want to work on?
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20110301 20:54:23< Nephro> Not really... I really like the algorithmic part of programming, rather than UI stuff etc. I was always interested in engine development and AI
20110301 20:55:15< boucman> Crab_ is our AI specialist, a former GSoC mentor and a former GSoC student, you might want to discuss that with him :)
20110301 20:56:31< Nephro> but the fact that I haven't done much AI before isn't a negative point for me, right? 
20110301 20:57:11< timotei> Nephro: I don't think existing members that participate in GSoC get priority :)
20110301 20:57:23< shadowmaster> boucman: congrats on getting wesnoth to work with openmp
20110301 20:57:29< boucman> Nephro: don't focus too much on your "resume" we juge our student primarly on how strong their proposal is and their coding skill
20110301 20:58:02< boucman> the best way to get in is to be active on IRC and to produce patch to show us you quickly got an understanding of the code
20110301 20:58:09< Aethaeryn> wesbot: seen crab_
20110301 20:58:09< wesbot> Aethaeryn: The person with the nick Crab_ 4d 21h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20110301 20:58:13< Aethaeryn> :/
20110301 20:58:21< boucman> see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding and http://wiki.wesnoth.org/NotSoEasyCoding
20110301 20:58:26< boucman> for ideas
20110301 20:58:34< boucman> (and of course any bug :P )
20110301 20:58:35< mordante> Nephro, do you know Lua?
20110301 20:58:40< Ivanovic> Nephro: basically everyone is judged on the same terms, no matter if new or old user
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20110301 20:58:58< boucman> shadowmaster: thx
20110301 20:59:21< Ivanovic> this means: if the student is active in irc, shows us decent code and the proposal it well done, it is likely to be accepted
20110301 20:59:34< Ivanovic> if a know dev eg has a "bad proposal" it is likely not to be accepted
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20110301 21:00:20< Nephro> I don't know LUA, but afair it's a scripting language for extensions(at least WoW seemed to use LUA for UI extensions)... But it was never a problem for me to learn :) I study programming and languages for me are only a tool
20110301 21:01:06< mordante> ok, just curious
20110301 21:01:30< mordante> there are some AI releated easy coding tasks here http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding#write_a_.28fai_or_c.2B.2B_or_lua.29_candidate_action_for_leader_control
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20110301 21:01:54< timotei> hmm, wouldn't silene want to work as a GSoCer on LUA? :P
20110301 21:02:02< shadowmaster> timotei: he didn't last year
20110301 21:02:03< timotei> iirc he is considered a student if it's in master
20110301 21:02:16< timotei> shadowmaster: oh. ok
20110301 21:02:32< shadowmaster> he was offerred the mentor role anyway
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20110301 21:04:28< Nephro> I can always propose my own ideas, right?
20110301 21:04:52< boucman> Nephro: sure, last year we took a student's idea (Whiteboard)
20110301 21:05:25< boucman> but you should discuss it here early, so if we consider it a bad idea we can redirect you before you invest too much time in it
20110301 21:05:44< boucman> we usually are happy to comment any proposal when asked
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20110301 21:09:56< Aethaeryn> Whiteboard? Oooh, I did not know about that
20110301 21:12:39< Nephro> anyways, how much time approximately do I still have to polish my C++ skills and dive into wesnoth again?
20110301 21:13:20< timotei> Nephro: depends on the task you chose to do
20110301 21:13:36< Aethaeryn> Is there a list of tasks out like last year yet?
20110301 21:13:47< timotei> yep
20110301 21:13:49< timotei> Aethaeryn: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas2010
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20110301 21:14:34< Aethaeryn> timotei: I found that, but isn't that 2010?
20110301 21:14:46< timotei> Aethaeryn: hmm, didn't you ask last year's list ? :-S
20110301 21:14:55< mordante> Nephro, if we're in we need to make our decisions before April 22
20110301 21:15:21< timotei> Aethaeryn: I think I misunderstood your question
20110301 21:15:22< mordante> so until that time you can convince us you should be selected
20110301 21:15:25< Aethaeryn> timotei: Oh, I'm going to apply this year.
20110301 21:15:32< grzywacz> boucman, so yeah, I have wesnoth use 250% of CPU with OMP enabled, so I guess it works.
20110301 21:15:45< Aethaeryn> I need the cash, I've been involved in the project in just about every way except for developer, and I'm still in college.
20110301 21:15:51< Nephro> But the work on the task should start in summer, no? I really read the faq, but some parts are confusing.  or is the task you are talking about some preliminary task that I must complete, in order for you to evaluate my skills?
20110301 21:15:54< Aethaeryn> And there's something that bothers me about Lua, so I'll do it anyway paid or not.
20110301 21:16:06< boucman> grzywacz: :)
20110301 21:16:23< mordante> Nephro, the official part start in the summer
20110301 21:16:24< Aethaeryn> As in, I want to radically improve the interface between Wesnoth and Lua.
20110301 21:16:30< grzywacz> boucman, on a 3-core machine, so scalability-wise it seems ok
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20110301 21:17:05< Aethaeryn> One of the main things I want to eliminate is the need for WML tables for conditionals/filters and for [set_menu_item] and [message] menus/options.
20110301 21:17:10< grzywacz> Now I have to figure out how to measure if it speeds things up for me and whether it doesn't cause any side effects like animation jitter or some such...
20110301 21:17:11< timotei> Aethaeryn: there was a LUA task last year: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas2010#Extend_Wesnoth_Lua_AI_Support
20110301 21:17:14< mordante> Nephro, however we like to so some patches to get a feeling about the skills of the contributor
20110301 21:17:33< Aethaeryn> timotei: Right, 'cept I have this itch I need to scratch to clean up my code for an add-on I'm committed to.
20110301 21:17:34< mordante> to get*
20110301 21:18:26< timotei> Aethaeryn: oh. ok :)
20110301 21:18:32< Aethaeryn> I really want filters, right-clicks, messages, etc., implemented natively in Lua instead of through WML tables.
20110301 21:18:43< Aethaeryn> Especially the first one, it is so ugly translating things like [or] into Lua
20110301 21:18:54< mordante> Nephro, organizations participating in GSoC all get more applications than they can handle so have to select
20110301 21:19:02< Aethaeryn> And that's probably not enough for a summer, so I'd like to talk to developers about some other things.
20110301 21:19:13< Aethaeryn> Possibly feature-parity between Lua and WML, but that might be asking too much.
20110301 21:19:54< mordante> Nephro, and we think patches and involvement on IRC tells us more than just a résumé
20110301 21:20:12< timotei> Aethaeryn: based on my understanding, you want to "move" more WML stuff into straight lua?
20110301 21:20:38< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, somehow I'd like to see WML stripped of imperative functionality and returned more to its original design goal of being a descriptive format. ;-)
20110301 21:20:46< grzywacz> But then, it's just my wish. [;
20110301 21:20:55< mordante> grzywacz, not just yours ;-)
20110301 21:21:00< Aethaeryn> grzywacz: That's exactly what I want to be able to do in my add-ons.
20110301 21:21:24< Nephro> I understand. Thanks for the answers and help. I need to configure my new system and then I can start trying to hack around.
20110301 21:21:25< Aethaeryn> WML should essentially be basic scenario/unit/whatever definition.
20110301 21:21:31< Aethaeryn> And then Lua should handle all the events.
20110301 21:21:32< boucman> Aethaeryn: write a proposal :)
20110301 21:21:48< Aethaeryn> Well, I'd rather propose to add functionality to Lua rather than subtract it from WML
20110301 21:21:52< Aethaeryn> Less controversial.
20110301 21:22:04< mordante> you're welcome
20110301 21:22:12< Aethaeryn> Though I know [set_menu_item], [message], filters, and a few others are absolutely necessary.
20110301 21:22:21< Aethaeryn> WML tables should be made mostly irrelevant imo.
20110301 21:22:43< Aethaeryn> That's the top of my list, I'm just not sure about other major missing features because I haven't come across them yet.
20110301 21:22:56< grzywacz> Aethaeryn, well, you have to add functionality od Lua before you can remove it from WML.
20110301 21:22:59< grzywacz> Either way...
20110301 21:23:03< grzywacz> *to Lua
20110301 21:23:10< grzywacz> (sorry for my typing - I'm very tired)
20110301 21:23:21< Aethaeryn> Right, ideally I'd like to remove the need for WML tables
20110301 21:23:38< Aethaeryn> But because I ned to be feasible and realistic...
20110301 21:23:51< Aethaeryn> I'll probably just find the most significant functionalities that are lacking (either in WML or just new feature requests)
20110301 21:23:55< Aethaeryn> And rank them by priority.
20110301 21:24:06< Aethaeryn> I have to be realistic and break it into small accomplishable chunks.
20110301 21:24:26< Aethaeryn> mordante: Are you the one who does GUI?
20110301 21:25:30< Aethaeryn> Anyway, the one area where my resume might be weak is lack of any substantial C++ project. Although I have done OOP in Python, Java, and even Lua.
20110301 21:25:52< Aethaeryn> So I'm not unfamiliar to anything except a bit of the syntax for features you don't really get into in shallow programming.
20110301 21:26:28< Aethaeryn> And I have several months to get my C++ down now that I know that it is required.
20110301 21:26:39< mordante> Aethaeryn, yup
20110301 21:26:51< Aethaeryn> mordante: Any feature requests for Lua with regards to the GUI?
20110301 21:27:13< Aethaeryn> Since I'm going to attempt [set_menu_item] and [message] (including [option]) anyway...
20110301 21:28:09< grzywacz> Out of curiosity: am I the only one who finds the saurian running animations completely unreadable in game? At least at normal speed?
20110301 21:28:10< grzywacz> :(
20110301 21:30:25< mordante> Aethaeryn, no, I also never really looked at the Lua part
20110301 21:30:45< mordante> I'm still focusing on getting the general GUI2 stuff running
20110301 21:37:28< mordante> I'm off night
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20110301 21:39:11< shadowmaster> grzywacz: no
20110301 21:39:26< shadowmaster> that might be why some people want to integrate animated previews into the help system
20110301 21:39:59< grzywacz> That could work.
20110301 21:42:57< shadowmaster> to me walking/movement animations are a waste
20110301 21:43:30< shadowmaster> about the only cases where they make sense are flying units
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20110301 21:52:17< grzywacz> shadowmaster, at least in case of saurians there's too much chaos when they play...
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20110301 22:22:22< shadowmaster> rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr[B[B[B[B/52
20110301 22:22:53< grzywacz> :)
20110301 22:23:04< boucman> cat on keyboard ?
20110301 22:23:18< shadowmaster> lag between the keyboard and the VPS, more like that
20110301 22:23:38 * stikonas just returned from RMS lecture...
20110301 22:23:49< shadowmaster> Gambit would be able to spot the raw backspace characters if he were around.
20110301 22:24:23< RemyLeBeau> I don't think [B is a raw backspace.
20110301 22:24:52< RemyLeBeau> Those are usually a funny square character, followed by a typo, followed by the correction.
20110301 22:24:57< shadowmaster> there isn't anything in between/around?
20110301 22:25:19< shadowmaster> ah well, the [B corresponds rougly to a raw Down arrow
20110301 22:25:25< RemyLeBeau> Nope. It's like Wic[]kipedy[]ia
20110301 22:25:33< shadowmaster> I was trying to clear the input line that way and insert /52 to go to window #52
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20110301 23:13:49< CIA-33> ivanovic * r48704 /trunk/po/wesnoth-dw/cs.po: updated Czech translation
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 02 00:00:12 2011