--- Log opened Tue Mar 22 00:00:45 2011
20110322 00:05:24-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.174] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20110322 00:05:32< eoc> Ivanovic: around?
20110322 00:05:41< eoc> && might I query you?
20110322 00:07:33< CrabNicholson> boucman : I'd like to talk to you about the spritesheet project, but at the moment I have astrophysics hw I need to get to.  What times are you active in the irc?
20110322 00:08:12< boucman> usually european evening, but I'll be around most of the european day tuesday and wensday
20110322 00:08:13< fendrin> CrabNicholson: Astrophysics... Just cool. I whish I had a similar interresting homework to do.
20110322 00:08:21< boucman> so don't worry you'll see me around
20110322 00:09:06< CrabNicholson> fendrin : I defected from physics back to computer science :-P, this astrophysics course finishes my physics minor.  I'll be glad to get back to CS.
20110322 00:09:52< CrabNicholson> boucman : Is Crab_ a regular here?
20110322 00:09:59< boucman> he is
20110322 00:10:06< boucman> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110322 00:10:06< wesbot> boucman: Queried user last spoke 16m 7s ago.  Crab_ is currently in this channel.
20110322 00:10:10< boucman> see :)
20110322 00:10:45< Crab_> :-P
20110322 00:10:46< CrabNicholson> Ok, Ill probably change my handle to something more human.
20110322 00:11:41< CrabNicholson> It actually looks like wesnoth is compiling, awesome
20110322 00:11:49< Crab_> CrabNicholson: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_People_to_bug_on_IRC contains the list of the people who are around more-or-less often and might be useful in the context of gsoc :)
20110322 00:12:02< CrabNicholson> *bookmarked* thanks!
20110322 00:12:37< CrabNicholson> Turns out that I didnt 'generate', I only 'configured'
20110322 00:12:46< CrabNicholson> no wonder everything I tried changed nothing
20110322 00:13:07< fendrin> I am missing on that list. I feel so unimportant.
20110322 00:13:12 * fendrin is sad.
20110322 00:13:27 * Espreon isn't
20110322 00:13:39< boucman> fendrin: this is FOSS, just add yourself :P
20110322 00:14:42-!- CrabNicholson is now known as SteveGSoC
20110322 00:14:43< vdaras> Hey Crab_, I need to report an error I found in the code I sent you. The second time the unit checks for an enemy (after it has moved) the boolean value indicating enemy existance (there_are_enemies) should not be local. Honest copy/paste mistake! :-P
20110322 00:14:49< Ivanovic> eoc: i am basically on my way to bed
20110322 00:14:57< Ivanovic> with other words: bad timing
20110322 00:15:02< SteveGSoC> <---Crab Nicholson will be known as SteveGSoC
20110322 00:15:15< Crab_> SteveGSoC: thanks
20110322 00:15:22< SteveGSoC> I hope this cuts down on the crab confusion :-P
20110322 00:15:39< boucman> ok, really time for bed here, see you all tomorow
20110322 00:15:45< vdaras> bye
20110322 00:15:46< SteveGSoC> Bye
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20110322 00:15:53< eoc> Ivanovic: aye, I'll ask another time :)
20110322 00:16:11< Crab_> vdaras: ok
20110322 00:16:24< Crab_> vdaras: just send the updated version, I'll get to test it in a day or two.
20110322 00:17:04< vdaras> alright
20110322 00:17:36< vdaras> don't need to rush it if you don't have enough time tho
20110322 00:18:02< Crab_> well, it's always nice to give some feedback early
20110322 00:18:02< vdaras> I'm occupied with the other task too :)
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20110322 00:20:18< Crab_> epyon: are you familiar with the lua syntax used currently in wesnoth to represent wml tables ?
20110322 00:22:59< timotei> well, I'll call end day
20110322 00:23:01< timotei> night guys
20110322 00:23:38< epyon> Crab_, not yet
20110322 00:23:49< epyon> Crab_, but I will before I finalize the proposal
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20110322 00:23:57< Crab_> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML#Encoding_WML_objects_into_Lua_tables
20110322 00:24:27< Crab_> ( that was the syntax selected by silene, who'd done most of lua-wesnoth integration work. )
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20110322 00:25:08< epyon> Crab_, heh that makes work easier and harder at the same time.
20110322 00:25:18< epyon> I need to see where it goes source-wise
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20110322 00:26:45< Crab_> see /wesnoth/src/scripting/lua.cpp, luaW_filltable and luaW_toconfig
20110322 00:29:17< epyon> Crab_, thanks :)
20110322 00:35:19-!- elbowroom [~elbowroom@bzq-79-181-25-82.red.bezeqint.net] has quit []
20110322 00:35:49< vdaras> Crab_ : I think there is a problem with lua code integration in WML files. In lua table definition is achieved by using { }. The problem is that when defining tables, the WML parser thinks that this is a macro call and generates errors.  (undefined macros)
20110322 00:35:54< vdaras> am I missing something?
20110322 00:36:11< epyon> vdaras, yes :>
20110322 00:36:33< Seiyria> yay, I finished the questionnaire
20110322 00:36:40< Seiyria> now I actually have to do the proposal, lol
20110322 00:36:41< epyon> the idea is to code everything in lua, without using WML at all
20110322 00:38:16< vdaras> I thought that embedding lua code in WML would be possible. Judging from the lua-enabled scenario..
20110322 00:38:53< epyon> vdaras, http://pastebin.com/ttF1zLRL
20110322 00:39:38< Crab_> vdaras: functions like wesnoth.require or wesnoth.dofile can be used to import code from non-preprocessed files
20110322 00:40:03< Crab_> vdaras: also, try putting spaces between { } and content
20110322 00:40:32< Crab_> vdaras: see data/scenario-test.cfg, for example, see the first [lua] block
20110322 00:40:48< Crab_> ' local types = { "Ancient Lich", "Ancient Wose", "Elvish Avenger" } '
20110322 00:40:53< Crab_> is not treated like a macro
20110322 00:41:17< epyon> Crab_, don't you think that a unified lua-only interface for defining scenarios would benefit all?
20110322 00:42:05< Crab_> epyon: I do not have an opinion at that point, I'll see how your proposal develops.
20110322 00:42:29< epyon> Crab_, that's a lot more positive than I expected, thank you :)
20110322 00:43:09< vdaras> epyon: This is a very nice piece of work indeed. 
20110322 00:43:25< vdaras> Crab_: thanks for the info
20110322 00:45:41< epyon> vdaras, you write WML files?
20110322 00:46:11< vdaras> nope
20110322 00:46:19< Crab_> epyon: for the lua ai project, we are mainly concerned with C++ lua callbacks for various ai-related things.
20110322 00:46:55< Crab_> epyon: and with pure lua code which will use them.
20110322 00:47:38< epyon> Crab_, we were discussing a different matter with boucman and fendrin
20110322 00:47:53< Crab_> epyon: yes, I know.
20110322 00:47:53< epyon> Crab_, substituting the WML files with Lua
20110322 00:48:50< epyon> bascially, once Lua enters the scene, there arises the question if any other text-based formats are needed at all
20110322 00:49:33< epyon> uniformness and self-reflection for validation tools is the immedate benefit :)
20110322 00:51:43< Crab_> please also note that wesnoth's MP server deals in WML for data transfer between clients.
20110322 00:52:03< loonycyborg> Do you expect maps to be in lua too?
20110322 00:52:07< Seiyria> isn't a MP redesign on the idea list, though?
20110322 00:52:32< epyon> Crab_, that would be taken into account
20110322 00:52:33< Crab_> Seiyria: it is. it is however, related to other issues, not to MP server.
20110322 00:52:38< Crab_> epyon: good
20110322 00:52:40< epyon> loonycyborg, yes
20110322 00:52:47< Seiyria> I figured as much, I just felt it was related
20110322 00:53:10< Crab_> Seiyria: mainly, we want to provide a new cool interface for players to create games which would allow to set different config options for the scenario
20110322 00:53:18< Seiyria> ah, I see
20110322 00:53:19< epyon> Crab_, the only additional problem here is safety, but as long as you don't expose os functions to lua it's not a problem.
20110322 00:53:29< Crab_> Seiyria: and we want a way for the scenario to supply that information
20110322 00:53:58< epyon> Crab_, ... and what better way to do that than have all in an all powerful lua format? :>
20110322 00:54:20< loonycyborg> epyon: And what do you expect the map editor to do wrt saving/loading maps?
20110322 00:54:22 * epyon puts on the temptress hat
20110322 00:54:38< epyon> loonycyborg, it will save lua ;>
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20110322 00:54:59< Crab_> epyon: for the libs, debug/math/string/table, are opened. debug is closed after init ends.
20110322 00:55:03< loonycyborg> How?
20110322 00:55:08< epyon> loonycyborg, the redesign is made the way that the lua format doesn't differ much from WML
20110322 00:55:18< epyon> so the rewriting wont be extreme
20110322 00:55:28< epyon> yet will allow a lot of additional possibilities
20110322 00:55:37< epyon> loonycyborg, you're a WML maker?
20110322 00:55:37< fendrin> loonycyborg: Maps are just strings, I guess lua is able to save strings easily.
20110322 00:56:01< epyon> Crab_, then you're fully safe
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20110322 00:56:15< fendrin> loonycyborg: The map format will not be a problem.
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20110322 00:56:32< epyon> Crab_, as long as Wesnoth's API doesn't expose something.
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20110322 01:00:39< loonycyborg> I'm not WML maker myself, but I know that some developers would prefer to drop lua in favor of extending WML :P
20110322 01:01:09< loonycyborg> E.g. Sapient said something to that effect.
20110322 01:01:43< epyon> loonycyborg, and it's exactly their opinion that I'd like to hear the most. Because I can try to provide more clear and readable Lua than the old WML+Lua combo
20110322 01:02:21< loonycyborg> He didn't appear here often lately.
20110322 01:02:57< epyon> loonycyborg, have you seen that example I posted?
20110322 01:03:38< epyon> once in place, additional extensions of the "basic API" would be just simple lines in a lua preloader, and wouldn't need almost any effort
20110322 01:04:03< epyon> because instead of making two formats work together, you'd just need to type in quick shortcuts
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20110322 01:07:15< Crab_> epyon: have you done any analysis on the amount of semantic changes that your proposed format requires ?
20110322 01:08:15< loonycyborg> Be sure to also compare them wrt sensitivity to mistakes.
20110322 01:08:42< Crab_> epyon: for example, in http://pastebin.com/ttF1zLRL you've invented up a number of things, in comparison with the old semantic.
20110322 01:08:51< loonycyborg> Since many WML makers aren't coders, effective error reporting is especially important.
20110322 01:09:10< Espreon> Indeed.
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20110322 01:09:59< epyon> loonycyborg, the error reporting would probably be even more accurate
20110322 01:10:36< epyon> especially if fed through the validating blueprints
20110322 01:10:57< epyon> Crab_, those are just constructors. And the parsing would be simplified
20110322 01:12:22< epyon> I know how much work parsing of such a syntax takes for I have done it a lot of times. The true question is, assuming we have all the data, how much work will it take to give it full WML powers
20110322 01:13:29< Crab_> epyon: what do you think about making a  'wml -> lua transformer using, say, the same AoI 1, and using silene's WML->lua format ?
20110322 01:14:06< Crab_> epyon: because, in effect, you have 2 proposals, (1) change WML to lua (2) simplify/change markup syntax
20110322 01:14:18< Crab_> epyon: and those are separate
20110322 01:14:47< Crab_> epyon: if you make a wml->lua transformer using existing WML->lua format, we'll see how (1) looks like
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20110322 01:15:03< epyon> Crab_, both way transformations will be implemented in Lua, for lua understands Lua the most. In the beginning I'll just provide the bridge
20110322 01:16:25< epyon> Crab_, the existing transformation can't be used because it looses tags
20110322 01:17:21< epyon> well, ok, it doesn't loose them, ok doable.
20110322 01:17:49< epyon> constructor syntax sugar would make this a lot more readable already
20110322 01:17:51< Crab_> epyon: the existing transformations don't lose data, they can convert the data back and forth without issues
20110322 01:18:18< Crab_> epyon: note that the engine functions take 'markup blocks' as arguments
20110322 01:18:50< epyon> yes, and that will make the implementation even simpler ^^
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20110322 01:18:57< Crab_> epyon: where by 'markup block' I mean a 'WML tag' at the moment, but using the term 'markup block' to distance from another issue
20110322 01:19:20< epyon> note however, that not all WML entities are translatable to Lua at the moment
20110322 01:19:20< Crab_> epyon: and, so, in the code, when we need to call a engine function, we need to construct a markup block on the fly.
20110322 01:19:40< Crab_> epyon: 'note however, that not all WML entities are translatable to Lua at the moment' -> example ?
20110322 01:19:50< epyon> #ifdef :>
20110322 01:20:10< epyon> Or all the macro definitions
20110322 01:20:12< Crab_> #ifdef is not a part of wml syntax, it's preprocessor stuff
20110322 01:20:15< Crab_> same for macros
20110322 01:20:36< Crab_> technically, we can use the preprocessor with lua files.
20110322 01:20:49< epyon> Crab_, that would be... heresy
20110322 01:20:58< Espreon> Who cares?
20110322 01:21:30< epyon> Espreon, wouldn't you rather have something that works with all the tools and is properly validated?
20110322 01:22:08< Espreon> Maybe.
20110322 01:22:21 * epyon puts on the temptress hat again
20110322 01:22:46< epyon> Esperon, and you wouldn't be limited to what the engine allows you y'know :>
20110322 01:22:51< Crab_> epyon: so, returning to 'and, so, in the code, when we need to call a engine function, we need to construct a markup block on the fly...'. when constructing a block on the fly, we can't always use the constructor syntax.
20110322 01:23:19< Espreon> But, I'm "Espreon"...
20110322 01:23:51< epyon> Crab_, constructor syntax is just syntax sugar, it's translated to normal tables at first parse
20110322 01:23:59< Crab_> epyon: yes, that's not a problem
20110322 01:24:00< epyon> Espreon, sorry :(
20110322 01:24:28< Espreon> You are you forgiven.
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20110322 01:24:49< Crab_> epyon: but, in fact, we'll have two similar representations for data, not one.
20110322 01:24:51< epyon> Crab_, however it has the added benefit that it can force the user to provide mandatory parameters like "id" in the instances where it is mandatory
20110322 01:25:14< epyon> Crab_, that's the temporary part :>
20110322 01:25:27< Crab_> epyon: why temporary ?
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20110322 01:26:08< epyon> Crab_, once it is obvious that the lua syntax is as readable and simple as WML, and once people get adapted to it, you can drop WML altogether.
20110322 01:26:20< Crab_> epyon: I'm not talking about wml.
20110322 01:26:33< Crab_> epyon: I'm talking about two different lua representations for markup blocks.
20110322 01:26:53< epyon> Crab_, there'd be just one representation
20110322 01:27:11< Crab_> epyon: well, as of now, we have your proposed constructor representation, and there is current markup block representation
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20110322 01:27:32< epyon> Crab_, the constructor is convertible to the latter
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20110322 01:28:00< Crab_> epyon: it is both lua, and is transformed to the same tables
20110322 01:28:04< epyon> actually the parser wont get any constructors, because (as the name implies) they construct normal tables and exit
20110322 01:28:12< Crab_> epyon: but the user has to remember two markups
20110322 01:28:18< epyon> The same representation
20110322 01:28:34< epyon> Crab_, what's the other markup to remember?
20110322 01:28:50< Crab_> epyon: , 'your proposed constructor representation', 'current markup block representation'
20110322 01:29:50< epyon> Crab_, the constructor representation will generate current markup block representations internally!
20110322 01:30:22< Crab_> epyon: yes, but the user-visible representation is different, yet similar enough to cause issues.
20110322 01:30:42< epyon> Crab_, ??
20110322 01:31:04< Crab_> epyon: i.e., the user will have to learn to use two similar formats.
20110322 01:31:10< epyon> Why?
20110322 01:31:26< epyon> He'll just learn the new constructor syntax
20110322 01:31:42< epyon> He wont need the old syntax for anything
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20110322 01:35:05< Crab_> epyon: he will need to know about it, actually. for example, when querying the values or debugging the code.
20110322 01:35:35< Crab_> epyon: but ok, let's suppose he'll learn
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20110322 01:36:10< epyon> This will be in the long run refactored into one fully universal system
20110322 01:36:33< epyon> (not to mention the power of a debug console based on lua at that point)
20110322 01:36:58< Crab_> epyon: not more powerful than current lua console, which can access wml variables :)
20110322 01:37:09< Crab_> but, returning to http://pastebin.com/ttF1zLRL , leaving constructor syntax aside, we have some new things present in it which were not present in the WML variant. stuff like 'OnTurn2'
20110322 01:37:09< epyon> Crab_, wanna bet? :P
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20110322 01:37:47< epyon> Crab_, that was a placeholder. I'd change that to OnTurnBegin
20110322 01:37:57< epyon> and then check which turn it is
20110322 01:38:03< epyon> or make a table
20110322 01:38:05< Crab_> epyon: since WML table can be translated to lua and back, lua console command can just convert wml variables to lua structures
20110322 01:38:17< Crab_> epyon: no, the issue is not with the name
20110322 01:38:56< epyon> Crab_, the first installment would mirror WML in this regard
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20110322 01:39:08< Crab_> epyon: yes, the issue is that you're not mirroring WML
20110322 01:39:13< epyon> this is rather "a taste of things to come"
20110322 01:39:42< Crab_> epyon: I'd like to see the same file with WML mirrored (forgetting about the macros at the moment), and not done 'by hand'.
20110322 01:39:45< epyon> Crab_, I could have done a full mirror, but that example was a proof-of-concept, not a guideline
20110322 01:40:02< epyon> Crab_, for the proposal, I'll write a converter ;>
20110322 01:40:08< epyon> Two-way
20110322 01:40:57< Crab_> epyon: you can use existing converter, as well, no reason to write lots of code.
20110322 01:41:14< Crab_> the issue with not having a full mirror is that you're simplifying the markup in the process.
20110322 01:41:24< epyon> Crab_, if it's written in lua then it'll be shorter
20110322 01:42:02< epyon> Crab_, you understand that I simplified the markup in that example just to show the future possibilities?
20110322 01:42:04< Crab_> for example:  you have   '      story = {    show_title= {"yes", TO_DEFEND_THE_FOREST },   {...}, {...}  }'
20110322 01:42:18< Crab_> epyon: simplification of the markup in the example is misleading.
20110322 01:42:57< epyon> Crab_, for a proposal document yes, for a "don't hit and burn me just because I'm proposing something radical" -- no :>
20110322 01:42:59< Crab_> epyon: since you lost things in the process. i.e., the tags inside the story were named "part"
20110322 01:43:22< Crab_> epyon: and now you have them as anonymous blocks, which look nicer but lose info.
20110322 01:43:41< epyon> Not exactly, depending on the scheme
20110322 01:43:53< Crab_> epyon: note that the schema is subject to change.
20110322 01:43:59< epyon> if the default is part then this could be ommite
20110322 01:44:06< epyon> Crab_, yes!
20110322 01:44:10< Crab_> epyon: so even if no info is lost in current scheme, it might not be default in future schemas.
20110322 01:44:20< Crab_> epyon: so, we need that 'part' even if it is a default now.
20110322 01:44:25< epyon> Crab_, the whole point is that my proposal would at the same time implement WML validation :)
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20110322 01:44:56< epyon> And a XSLT translation syntax if needed
20110322 01:45:15< epyon> v3.8->v3.9.translation.lua
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20110322 01:46:30< epyon> Crab_, just to make things simpler for me -- you're arguing because you're unconvinced, or because you want me to consider all problems?
20110322 01:47:18< epyon> ergo, do you see the benefit in WML->Lua transition?
20110322 01:47:49< Crab_> epyon: for now, I want to see if your proposal will work for wesnoth, regardless of its merit. for that, I need to see if there's indeed a way to automatically convert markup and to see how it'll look like.
20110322 01:48:13< Crab_> epyon: so, I'm trying to figure out how it'll look like.
20110322 01:48:33< Crab_> epyon: and that's why the simplified/changed syntax of the example is causing difficulties
20110322 01:48:38< epyon> Crab_, ok, I think then this discussion will be better postponed to the moment I do some preliminary tests and conversions
20110322 01:48:44< Crab_> ok
20110322 01:49:03< epyon> however, this will be probably monday the soonest
20110322 01:49:41< Crab_> there's plenty of time
20110322 01:49:53< epyon> yet I'm willing to do it (despite the obvious resistance it will stirr) because it seems that some pepole have noticed the benefit :)
20110322 01:50:12< Crab_> I will try to convert AoI :1 using current wml->lua converter
20110322 01:50:35< epyon> kk
20110322 01:53:09< Crab_> epyon: another thing to note that tags can have different meaning depending on their location in the wml tree
20110322 01:53:31< Crab_> epyon: usually we try to avoid name clashes but sometimes they happen.
20110322 01:55:09< epyon> Crab_, this is the time to fix it :>
20110322 01:55:26< Crab_> epyon: well, note that it's not always wanted to fix it
20110322 01:55:38< epyon> the same
20110322 01:55:41< Crab_> epyon: because it is in some contexts perfectly ok for a tag to have 'any' content.
20110322 01:56:05< epyon> Crab_, the better
20110322 01:56:10< Crab_> epyon: that is, if a tag is 'backed' by code, which is able to parse additional things from that tag, and only the code knows which
20110322 01:56:24< epyon> Lua WML aims exactly at allowing more freedom, right?
20110322 01:56:40< Crab_> epyon: the freedom is the same atm.
20110322 01:56:50< Crab_> epyon: both with your proposal and without it
20110322 01:56:54< epyon> So it's a perfect occasion to look forward
20110322 01:56:56< Crab_> yes
20110322 01:57:27< epyon> I'll gather all the WML requests and see how this looks like 
20110322 01:57:35< Crab_> ok
20110322 01:57:36< epyon> And study the current format
20110322 01:57:49< epyon> Then I'll present a proposal
20110322 01:58:28< epyon> My goal is not just to change the format, but to make the GSoC proposal give some immedate benefit to the modding capabilities
20110322 01:58:54< epyon> If it doesn't give something more while keeping everything it had, it won't defend itself.
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20110322 01:59:35< epyon> Design-time validiation is one of those features, but only the top of what I want to provide.
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20110322 02:01:05< Crab_> note that design-time validation is not blocked by preprocessor
20110322 02:01:43< Crab_> since it's possible to see the processed code after the preprocessor has done with it, with debug info about line numbers
20110322 02:02:57< epyon> the goal of the lua implementation is to make the preprocessor obsolete, but in the second phase of the proposal
20110322 02:03:38< Crab_> this part would be good to describe in detail, in your proposal
20110322 02:03:47< Crab_> since it might prove quite useful
20110322 02:04:01< epyon> validation or the step by step transitioning?
20110322 02:04:14< Crab_> 'get rid of preprocessor'
20110322 02:04:20< epyon> :D
20110322 02:04:33 * epyon senses a hatred towards the evil C ^^
20110322 02:04:57< Crab_> epyon: no, I'm just interested to see the ways to work around the need for the preprocessor
20110322 02:05:11< epyon> kk
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20110322 02:05:37< Crab_> epyon: the validation part is easy enough, in regard that the benefit of switch to lua would allow the tools to use lua bindings to parse the code
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20110322 02:05:59< Crab_> epyon: but, the same can be easily achieved with a small amount of c++ coding
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20110322 02:29:08< Crab_> epyon: take a look - http://pastebin.com/sra1p23i
20110322 02:29:18< Crab_> epyon: that's AoI 1, in current wesnoth's luawml syntax
20110322 02:29:58< Crab_> (the commas were lost somewhere on the way, but that's easy to fix)
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20110322 02:37:30< epyon> Crab_, i see...
20110322 02:37:46< epyon> Well, there's one thing that has great promises here
20110322 02:38:06< Crab_> which one ?
20110322 02:38:23< epyon> You probably see as well as I do, how much here can be simplified with pure lua?
20110322 02:39:01< Crab_> yes, that's why I've asked to describe your vision of 'how to replace the preprocessor' in details
20110322 02:39:15< epyon> i will
20110322 02:39:19< Crab_> but we can use the usual WML preprocessor here, as well , it'll work )
20110322 02:39:47< epyon> Crab_, that will be good in terms of incremental changes
20110322 02:40:02< Crab_> as you see, I'm trying to split your proposal into pieces, just in case some will be met with approval and some without it...
20110322 02:40:04< epyon> I see even a list of tasks now
20110322 02:40:24< epyon> 1) allow loading scenarios from Lua
20110322 02:40:43< epyon> 2) allow it access to variables
20110322 02:41:01< epyon> 3) remove preprocessor from lua-loaded tasks
20110322 02:41:19< epyon> err... "objects/scenarios"
20110322 02:41:34< Crab_> isn't (1) allow loading scenarios from Lua  trivial (forgetting about macros atm) ?   just do the lua->config transform on load, which is already implemented
20110322 02:41:37< epyon> Crab_, your help is deeply appriciated
20110322 02:41:51< epyon> Crab_, true
20110322 02:42:02< Crab_> and what is (2) about ?
20110322 02:42:12< epyon> Ok, again
20110322 02:42:23< epyon> 1) loading scenarios from lua
20110322 02:42:41< epyon> 2) loading a "loader" script with constructor definitions before that
20110322 02:42:55< epyon> (that will simplify the interface a lot)
20110322 02:43:14< epyon> 3) allowing the loader to accesss existing Lua functionality
20110322 02:43:42< epyon> (I hope that the existing functionality will allow the same as macro's, if not, it would be implemented)
20110322 02:44:15< epyon> Before or after that would be a two-way translation of WML
20110322 02:44:31< epyon> probably before
20110322 02:45:25< epyon> 4) Once the two methods of loading data are equally powerfull -- implement the features that are easily implementable because of the new format
20110322 02:45:38< epyon> 5) implement other WML requests on the Lua side
20110322 02:46:05< epyon> 6) PR-machine the new capabilities, gather more request, rewrite tools
20110322 02:46:50< epyon> 7) if accepted, translate the existing WML codebase mechanically, then add by hand simplifications from step 4 and 5
20110322 02:47:26< epyon> 8) *extremely important, and probably done before* write tutorials and documentation for the new API
20110322 02:48:40< epyon> 9) *optional - if the dev's agree* - put a WML2Lua parser step in front of all WML loading functionality and remove the WML parser altogether (transparent to the modder/user)
20110322 02:48:51< Crab_> (you won't be able to do 7 fully unless you find a way to replace the preprocessor in a mechanical way, which you won't be able to do without using an old/new preprocessor :) , but I guess the majority of the cases can be worked around somehow (where the preprocessor usage is similar to a function call), and I want you to describe, how)
20110322 02:49:32< epyon> Crab_, the preprocessor statements would be translated into Lua functions
20110322 02:49:42< epyon> Ok I will
20110322 02:49:48< Crab_> epyon: I want examples for that
20110322 02:49:52< epyon> kk
20110322 02:50:08< Crab_> epyon: and note that there are some cases which you won't be able to translate. just find a way to detect them, automatically or by hand.
20110322 02:50:25< epyon> One example was already in the pseudo-example I posted -- the rest will be in the proposal :>
20110322 02:50:44< epyon> Crab_, I know -- those will need human attention
20110322 02:50:46< Crab_> epyon: but be sure to describe the steps separately before showing any combination of them
20110322 02:50:52< epyon> Yes
20110322 02:51:03< Crab_> ok, good
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20110322 02:51:05< Crab_> thanks
20110322 02:51:54< epyon> aaaand, finally 10) *probably half a year or more after GSoC* if all goes well, remove WMF files altogether, replacing them with equivalent lua files.
20110322 02:52:56< epyon> I'll take the WML docs with me to the conference, I think I'll have some time to go through them :)
20110322 02:53:21< epyon> Till tuesday I'll still be here gathering criticism though.
20110322 02:53:41< epyon> thursday*
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20110322 02:56:01< Crab_> ok
20110322 02:56:44< epyon> Crab_, but come on, don't you see at least a little benefit in this change? :)
20110322 02:57:23< Crab_> it's still too early to tell. it opens up possibilities and benefits, but also risks and issues.
20110322 02:57:31< Crab_> but it is worth exploring further
20110322 02:57:49< epyon> ok, I guess that is good enough :)
20110322 02:58:56< epyon> ...because you know as well as I do that it will be a hard proposal to come through with.
20110322 02:59:34< Crab_> yes
20110322 03:02:08< Crab_> good night
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20110322 03:02:18< epyon> ok bed time for me, g'night!
20110322 03:02:31< Crab_> 4 am here )
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20110322 03:16:03< Aethaeryn> So when 1.9.5 comes, there will be a new faction?
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20110322 05:59:26-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.5 planned for the next weekend | 189 bugs, 304 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110322 07:05:12< CIA-89> espreon * r48968 /trunk/po/ (54 files in 27 dirs): Fixed the Old English po files' headers.
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20110322 07:16:18< CIA-89> espreon * r48969 /trunk/po/wesnoth-lib/ (ang.po ang@latin.po): Updated the Old English translation.
20110322 07:16:54< shadowmaster> what
20110322 07:17:01< shadowmaster> since when is here an OE translation?!
20110322 07:17:08< shadowmaster> there*
20110322 07:17:20< Espreon> Since...
20110322 07:17:31< Espreon> Two(?) days ago.
20110322 07:17:47< Espreon> What did you think I was talking about when I was talking about po files?
20110322 07:18:05< shadowmaster> wesnoth-umc-dev or the spanish translation of course
20110322 07:18:50< Espreon> I see.
20110322 07:26:45< shadowmaster> 20110322 03:26:31 warning font: Failed opening font file 'Junicode-Regular.ttf': No such file or directory
20110322 07:26:59< shadowmaster> Espreon: I am guessing you have something to do with this, no?
20110322 07:27:48< Espreon> Yupperz.
20110322 07:27:55< Espreon> I don't like it either.
20110322 07:28:12< Espreon> I think it should shut the fuck up when the font's not going to be distributed with the game for at least one hundred years.
20110322 07:29:21< CIA-89> espreon * r48970 /trunk/po/wesnoth/ (ang.po ang@latin.po): Updated the Old English translation.
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20110322 07:29:33< Espreon> shadowmaster: Remind me to get off my lazy ass this weekend.
20110322 07:39:45< Espreon> Muahahahahah! Take that Friulian! http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/index.php?package=alloff&order=trans&version=trunk
20110322 07:40:33< CIA-89> shadowmaster * r48971 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
20110322 07:40:33< CIA-89> config: Add a new engine-defined VERSION preprocessor macro
20110322 07:40:33< CIA-89> This macro expands to the Wesnoth version number string as provided in
20110322 07:40:33< CIA-89> the game config code (e.g. same as displayed in the titlescreen, used
20110322 07:40:33< CIA-89> for comparing saved games versions).
20110322 07:40:44< Espreon> Yay!
20110322 07:41:03< shadowmaster> I'll take the #ifver / #ifnver discussion to the forums now.
20110322 07:41:10< shadowmaster> before committing.
20110322 07:41:17< Espreon> Have fun.
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20110322 07:49:01< Espreon> Hmmmm... the different styles of Junicode are split into seperate files... what to do... what to do?
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20110322 07:51:27< Espreon> shadowmaster: What should be done?
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20110322 08:05:04< shadowmaster> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33361
20110322 08:05:08< timotei> morning
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20110322 09:01:15< shadowmaster> the error (warning?) issued in config_cache.cpp:166 doesn't make any sense to me :/
20110322 09:02:23< shadowmaster> and that was introduced by suokko along with most of the file itself, so I can't find any explanation as to why you can't supposedly have a non-empty macro without arguments at that point.
20110322 09:02:52< shadowmaster> *non-empty macro or macro with arguments
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20110322 09:30:03< shadowmaster> uhm.
20110322 09:30:58< shadowmaster> I'm guessing the idea behind that check is to invalidate the cache is for whatever reason it defines a symbol due to #define
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20110322 09:31:21< shadowmaster> s/is for/if for/
20110322 09:31:47< shadowmaster> so if that should happen, the cache was obviously not automatically generated by Wesnoth and therefore it's unreliable to make use of it
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20110322 09:32:28< shadowmaster> because no-one expected at that time that a non-empty macro/symbol would be defined by any means other than #define (in this case, a direct insertion from the C++)
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20110322 09:40:28< shadowmaster> (no-one being suokko, of course)
20110322 09:40:50< CIA-89> shadowmaster * r48972 /trunk/src/config_cache.cpp: (log message trimmed)
20110322 09:40:50< CIA-89> config: Treat VERSION specially when probing cache invalidation scenarios
20110322 09:40:50< CIA-89> It's not explained in the code at all, but I guess the point of
20110322 09:40:50< CIA-89> invalidating the cache when a non-empty or non-argless macro has been
20110322 09:40:50< CIA-89> defined is to make sure the cache was really automatically generated and
20110322 09:40:50< CIA-89> not tampered with by the user. In such case it should be safe to make an
20110322 09:40:51< CIA-89> exception for VERSION, the first engine-generated non-empty macro so
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20110322 09:50:18< shadowmaster> the WML cache appears to be always regenerated on startup (without --validcache) even on r48675.
20110322 09:50:50< shadowmaster> sigh.
20110322 09:53:38< shadowmaster> it seems to work as it should (or as I assume it should) in 1.8; hard to tell since there's much less core WML there and my current laptop is too fast.
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20110322 10:08:19< shadowmaster> Espreon: regarding those fonts: err, ask Ivanovic? I have no idea how we handle fonts with specialized variations.
20110322 10:09:36< shadowmaster> DejaVu Sans' variations are missing from Wesnoth's fonts dir and I don't know if there's some mechanism falling back to the system copies or it just goes ahead with artificial variations.
20110322 10:10:25< shadowmaster> (assuming artificial variations are really supported by <insert renderer name here> as the fonts-conf manpage lead me to believe. I still can't artificially bold Lucida Console here.)
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20110322 10:37:53< Ivanovic> moin
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20110322 11:00:50< CIA-89> ivanovic * r48973 /trunk/po/wesnoth-l/sk.po: updated Slovak translation
20110322 11:00:56< CIA-89> ivanovic * r48974 /branches/1.8/po/wesnoth-l/sk.po: updated Slovak translation
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20110322 11:59:26-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.5 planned for the next weekend | 191 bugs, 304 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110322 12:25:54-!- Crab_ changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.5 planned for the next weekend | Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas |191 bugs, 304 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110322 13:10:46< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions | New #ifver/#ifnver preprocessor directive for version checks by shadowmaster at 03-22-2011 07:01:51 http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=33361&p=482832#p482832
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20110322 13:30:51< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions | Re: New #ifver/#ifnver preprocessor directive for version ch by zookeeper at 03-22-2011 12:21:49 http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=33361&p=482854#p482854
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20110322 15:30:44< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions | Re: New #ifver/#ifnver preprocessor directive for version ch by Max at 03-22-2011 14:25:32 http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=33361&p=482863#p482863
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20110322 15:46:51< Nephro> Crab_, I am thinking over how to implement the ability of writing aspects in Lua. As an example, I am looking on aggression(typesafe_aspect)... You told me, that I would have to fix aspects.hpp for that, but it doesn't seem very clear on how to do that. Aggression is hardcoded to be a typesafe_aspect in readonly_context_impl, so I would have to basically make some changes to the typesafe_aspect class, so that it (1) d
20110322 15:46:51< Nephro> istinguished values and lua code for generating them (2) decide wether to return a string or to execute it in Lua first
20110322 15:46:59< Nephro> Was that you idea initially?
20110322 15:47:51< Crab_> yes
20110322 15:47:53< Nephro> In this case, I would say, that not more the 15 lines of code need to be added to typesafe_aspect
20110322 15:48:05< Nephro> but the get method will now have a branching statement
20110322 15:48:17< Crab_> it already has branches
20110322 15:48:39< Crab_> note that it partially supports formula_ai written branches
20110322 15:48:57< Crab_> and note that you will need to add a method like get_as_lua(), as well
20110322 15:49:21< Crab_> to avoid the need to do lua-> c++ -> lua translation if the value of your lua aspect is requested by lua code
20110322 15:49:38< Nephro> Yes, I remember that :)
20110322 15:50:18< Nephro> The part that I didn't understand was the get_value_variant, is this the formula_ai part?
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20110322 15:50:39< Crab_> yes
20110322 15:50:48< Crab_> 'variant' is a formula_ai datatype
20110322 15:50:57< Nephro> Now it makes more sense, thank you
20110322 15:51:24< Crab_> basically, variant is more-or-less 'void*' for formula ai
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20110322 16:07:41< AI0867> formula ai is dynamically typed, so a variant can contain anything that formula ai can describe
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20110322 16:42:35< Espreon> fendrin: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=482716&sid=4d6938f9a3cfef4fcdfbdf53ef381c5a#p482716
20110322 16:43:38< Espreon> I'm guessing you did that to allow some form of bonus/negative control for different situations.
20110322 16:43:49< Espreon> Well, if so, the way it's done sucks.
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20110322 17:22:15< Nephro> Wesnoth drops out when I try to start it with -t lua_ai... Is it possible to load that scenario from wesnoth itself?
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20110322 17:36:11< timotei> Nephro: programatically?
20110322 17:36:41< Nephro> no, well, I need to start lua_ai scenarion, but the launcher crashes
20110322 17:37:01< timotei> hmm
20110322 17:37:05< timotei> where is that scenario?
20110322 17:38:00< Nephro> data/ai/scenario/
20110322 17:40:46< Nephro> http://imagebin.org/144331
20110322 17:53:57< timotei> oh.
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20110322 18:12:09< fendrin> hi noy
20110322 18:12:24< noy> hey
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20110322 18:27:37< Aethaeryn> wesbot: seen crab_
20110322 18:27:37< wesbot> Aethaeryn: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 2h 36m ago.  2h 14m ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20110322 18:27:47< Aethaeryn> ugh
20110322 18:29:16< Aethaeryn> Anyone else able to give a Lua-related task?
20110322 18:29:27< Aethaeryn> Just a few, small patches atm.
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20110322 19:15:59< SteveGSoC> Boucman : Could you mark my forum account as a gsoc student account?
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20110322 20:15:13< mordante> servus
20110322 20:15:27< timotei> hi mordante 
20110322 20:15:39< mordante> hi timotei 
20110322 20:15:52< Seiyria> 'ello mordante
20110322 20:15:56< Seiyria> and timotei
20110322 20:16:02< mordante> hi Seiyria 
20110322 20:16:12< Skizzaltix> Hello, everyone
20110322 20:16:33< mordante> hi Skizzaltix 
20110322 20:17:45< timotei> hi Seiyria 
20110322 20:21:08< SteveGSoC> Today will be the day wesnoth compiles, I have my lucky rabbit's foot and my clovers, time to make some bits
20110322 20:21:11< Seiyria> so.. if I wanted to work on the eclipse plugin, what all would I actually be proposing?
20110322 20:21:36< Seiyria> besides the general improvements that are already suggested in the project description
20110322 20:21:44< iwontbecreative> esr: Do you know how to fix the bug that data/tools/wmlxgettext has with macros that contain translatable arguments?
20110322 20:22:39< esr> iwontbecreative: Fix it?  I don't think I was even aware of it.
20110322 20:22:50< shadowmaster> zookeeper: any word on #ifver <op> <version>  vs.  #ifver <symbol> <op> <version>  ?
20110322 20:23:09< iwontbecreative> esr: Oh, nevermind, I thought I had said it.
20110322 20:23:36< iwontbecreative> esr: Maybe I said it only to espreon then
20110322 20:24:20-!- Sytyi [~chatzilla@51-89-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110322 20:24:44< Sytyi> wesbot: seen mordante
20110322 20:24:44< wesbot> Sytyi: Queried user last spoke 8m 11s ago.  mordante is currently here and on the channel #wesnoth-de.
20110322 20:25:42< Soliton> shadowmaster: i'd go for without symbol and if a symbol is needed call it WESNOTH_VERSION.
20110322 20:25:48< Sytyi> mordante: Can I ask you a question about WML walidation
20110322 20:25:49< SteveGSoC> wesbot: seen wesbot
20110322 20:25:49< wesbot> SteveGSoC: I am wesbot!
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20110322 20:26:45< Soliton> Sytyi: don't ask to ask, just ask.
20110322 20:26:53< Sytyi> ok
20110322 20:26:56< Sytyi> but
20110322 20:27:50< mordante> Sytyi, in general we prefer to talk on this chan, just ask your questions
20110322 20:28:46< Sytyi> WML validator tool will work with existing .cpp files, or .cfg files or both 
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20110322 20:31:02< mordante> Sytyi,  the WML validator uses the .cpp files to read comment and turn that into schemas
20110322 20:31:19< mordante> then the engine uses these generated schemas to validate the WML
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20110322 20:33:03< Sytyi> mordante: I dont need to validate the schema file, only to generate? 
20110322 20:33:31< mordante> you need to generate a valid schema file 
20110322 20:33:59< mordante> that means you need to test whether the comment in the .cpp is valid
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20110322 20:34:40< Sytyi> mordante: Now I see two different tasks. One is to generate valid WML from CPP, and another to validate existing WML with user-friendly errors. 
20110322 20:34:50< CIA-89> shadowmaster * r48975 /trunk/ (changelog src/config_cache.cpp): config: Rename VERSION symbol to WESNOTH_VERSION
20110322 20:35:13< mordante> Sytyi, not entirely
20110322 20:35:40< mordante> 1. generate a valid schema from cpp files (this may or may not be WML format)
20110322 20:35:56< Soliton> shadowmaster: thanks.
20110322 20:35:59< mordante> 2. use the schema to validate the existing WML when loaded in game
20110322 20:36:11< CIA-89> shadowmaster * r48976 /trunk/src/tests/test_config_cache.cpp: config: r48975 again, I keep forgetting the test unit
20110322 20:36:31< mordante> and it should start with the simpler parts of WML
20110322 20:36:53< Sytyi> mordante: so this schema will be something like DTD or XSD in XML
20110322 20:37:13< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: wouldn't it be possible for scons to tell me that I'm requesting an invalid build target *before* doing the config pass?
20110322 20:37:37< mordante> Sytyi, yes and more like the XSD file as DTD
20110322 20:37:55< mordante> but the exact format is up to the student
20110322 20:38:38< mordante> epyon, how do you envision the validation part of your Lua idea?
20110322 20:39:22< shadowmaster> although unit tests pass, there's a lot of warnings and few errors in stderr
20110322 20:39:23-!- GeorgeSebastian [~georgeSeb@unaffiliated/georgesebastian] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110322 20:39:42< mordante> shadowmaster, about strings being truncated?
20110322 20:40:13< shadowmaster> and some other stuff: http://pastebin.com/A3GCjZsu
20110322 20:40:39< Sytyi> mordante: I see. And I spent time, trying to research  a grammar  based  analyzer for exosting schemas
20110322 20:41:05< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Nope, because validity of targets is determined at build phase.
20110322 20:41:33< shadowmaster> "error display: could not open image 'units/elves-wood/wayfarer.png'" is probably the engine trying to load my UMC's files for some purpose
20110322 20:42:08< shadowmaster> perhaps saved game snapshots
20110322 20:42:44< mordante> Sytyi, yes
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20110322 20:47:13< mordante> Aethaeryn, there most likely will not be a new faction in the next dev release
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20110322 20:52:44< iwontbecreative> Khalifate won't go in?
20110322 20:53:14< shadowmaster> aw
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20110322 20:54:21< mordante> iwontbecreative, probably not for the next dev release
20110322 20:54:38< Ivanovic> iwontbecreative: they simply need by far too much time
20110322 20:54:39< mordante> don't know whether Ivanovic directly wants to release once they're in
20110322 20:54:53< Ivanovic> if i had known that they took this long 1.9.5 would have been out already for a month
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20110322 20:55:00< iwontbecreative> I see
20110322 20:55:05< Ivanovic> they need "some more weeks"
20110322 20:55:06< iwontbecreative> Changelog is getting quite long indeed
20110322 20:55:22< iwontbecreative> Well, I think that releasing it is the best way to get it tested
20110322 20:55:38< mordante> btw Ivanovic after 1.9.5 do you directly release once the Kalifate are ready?
20110322 20:55:46< iwontbecreative> Unless if it's really unbalanced and thereby unplayable
20110322 20:56:16< Soliton> just don't make the release schedule dependent on the kalifate...
20110322 20:56:28< iwontbecreative> (Maybe make it an add-on then?)
20110322 20:57:07< Soliton> the people working on the kalifate are happy with the way they're doing it. if they want help i'm sure they'll ask,
20110322 20:58:02< Aethaeryn> Anyone know when crab_ will be back?
20110322 20:58:34< Aethaeryn> If not today, anyone have a small Lua related thing I could perhaps patch?
20110322 20:59:04< Aethaeryn> Small because I need to do a few little things to get used to the way the core project does things. I'm used to just coding things for personal use.
20110322 20:59:13< iwontbecreative> I guess that if 1.10 is only after GSoC things are polished there's no problem indeed.
20110322 20:59:38 * Soliton nods.
20110322 21:00:16< Ivanovic> mordante: not sure
20110322 21:00:55< fendrin> iwontbecreative: We roughly aim for a release at xmas. Don't nail me down if that isn't true. But there is plenty of time left for the khalife to go in until next winter.
20110322 21:01:21< mordante> Sytyi, I had a look at your application and it looks fine for now, the project needs to be fleshed out, but that of course takes time
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20110322 21:02:16< mordante> Sytyi, Crab_ said I probably would have a minor task for you, however I rather first see the proposal for the grammer fleshed out more
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20110322 21:02:52< mordante> Sytyi, after that I will find a task for you
20110322 21:03:05< mordante> Ivanovic, ok
20110322 21:03:11< iwontbecreative> fendrin: Yes, then there's a lot of time, I just feared that Khalifate would stay in testing only for 2-3 months :P
20110322 21:03:21< Ivanovic> mordante: the post 1.9.5 plans solely depend on when what is done
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20110322 21:03:53< Ivanovic> so yeah, if the khalifate are done about 2 weeks after 1.9.5 and things work nicely, 1.9.6 could be released then
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20110322 21:04:30< Ivanovic> but the release schedule depends on various factors, mainly limited to:
20110322 21:04:32< fendrin> iwontbecreative: That may happen. Still I think it is sure that 1.10 will ship with it. And that is all that does matter.
20110322 21:04:34< Ivanovic> 1) what is done
20110322 21:04:35-!- Sirp [~user@pool-173-74-15-196.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110322 21:04:40< fendrin> hi Sirp 
20110322 21:04:41< Ivanovic> 2) do i have enough time for releasing
20110322 21:04:45< Sirp> hi
20110322 21:04:49< mordante> hi Sirp 
20110322 21:04:55< Sirp> Is there anyone who can speak French who can help me with something?
20110322 21:05:00< iwontbecreative> Yes
20110322 21:05:28< Sirp> okay I will pm you
20110322 21:05:37< mordante> Ivanovic, yeah I hope to finish the Lua mess after 1.9.5 and would be nice to have it in trunk for a little while
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20110322 21:05:47< Ivanovic> mordante: yeah, it would
20110322 21:06:09< Sirp> iwontbecreative: was that "Yes" in response to speaking French and be able to help me? :)
20110322 21:06:19< iwontbecreative> Sirp: Yes :)
20110322 21:06:40< Sirp> okay. :)
20110322 21:07:06< mordante> Ivanovic, I hope to have it ready before the release so can commit shortly afterwards
20110322 21:07:39< Ivanovic> cf topic, my plan is this weekend for 1.9.5
20110322 21:07:51< mordante> yes I read that
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20110322 21:08:45< zookeeper> shadowmaster, no particular opinion
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20110322 21:10:25< Ivanovic> mordante: i'll try to have a look at releasing on saturday, so that it is (finally) done, but, yeah, not sure if it will work out
20110322 21:10:37< Nephro> How can I start a particular scenario from inside the game?
20110322 21:11:01< mordante> Ivanovic, ok
20110322 21:11:26< fendrin> Nephro: You start the campaign, go in debug mode and use the "cl" command to jump to that scenario.
20110322 21:11:50< Nephro> fendrin, it's not a campaign, it's just a standalone .cg scenario
20110322 21:12:01< fendrin> Nephro: But you also can use the commandline (the operating system one, not the ingame) to start wesnoth with a certain scenario.
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20110322 21:12:23< Nephro> Well, that seems to be a problem, the game crashes when I do that
20110322 21:12:47< fendrin> Nephro: Then fill a bug report. Wesnoth should not crash.
20110322 21:12:53< fendrin> Nephro: Please :-)
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20110322 21:13:43< Nephro> Fact is, I did this kind of launching on linux and it worked, but windows seems not to like this. Does anyone use windows here besides me? Can you try launching "wesnoth.exe -t lua_ai -d"?
20110322 21:14:35< fendrin> Nephro: So you talk about a test scenario. That should work that way. It is certainly a bug.
20110322 21:14:58< fendrin> Iirc loonycyborg is developing with Windows.
20110322 21:15:27< Soliton> s/Windows/wine/
20110322 21:15:46< fendrin> Nephro: How does it crash? Any output? Can you give us a backtrace?
20110322 21:16:17< Nephro> <Nephro> http://imagebin.org/144331
20110322 21:17:01< fendrin> Nephro: I see. Please attach a stacktrace to the bug report as well.
20110322 21:17:21< Nephro> I don't actually know how to do that
20110322 21:17:49< fendrin> Okay, you need the build system you use to tell that you want a "debug" build.
20110322 21:17:51< grigoryj_> mordante, Hello
20110322 21:18:34< Nephro> fendrin, it is a debug build
20110322 21:18:46< mordante> hi grigoryj_ 
20110322 21:19:01< fendrin> Nephro: Then launch it in a debbuger.
20110322 21:19:29< fendrin> I use eclipse for c++ developing and it is quite easy there.
20110322 21:19:41< fendrin> Not claiming that eclipse is the best IDE for c+ü
20110322 21:19:44< fendrin> c++
20110322 21:20:29< grigoryj_> mordante, did you have a look at my page yesterday? any comments? I'd like to know where my proposal needs improvement :-)
20110322 21:21:22< mordante> grigoryj_, no I didn't will do in a sec
20110322 21:22:27< grigoryj_> thanks
20110322 21:23:07< mordante> I only glimpsed over it shortly, will read it now
20110322 21:26:31< mordante> grigoryj_, regarding schema validation, the idea is to extend the wiki comment format
20110322 21:26:53< mordante> that way the comment can be used for both schemas and wiki information
20110322 21:27:14< mordante> and I'm aware the format probably needs to be tweaked to suit the needs for the schema
20110322 21:27:44< mordante> the question is, does it need to be tweaked and if yes what needs to be changed
20110322 21:30:02< grigoryj_> mordante, so, you want the schema to be specified through the comments directly and not through WML itself?
20110322 21:30:43< mordante> yes the idea it's easier to update your changes in one place instead of two files
20110322 21:34:35< mordante> grigoryj_, I think your application looks good thusfar, I'm pleasantly surprised you already wrote details regarding the implementation
20110322 21:36:07< mordante> one question, now that you know that the comment in the .cpp files are going to generate the schemas does that have any consequences regarding the format of the schema WML?
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20110322 21:38:00< grigoryj_> mordante, It depends... If we're allowed to change the format of comments, there will be no need to change the format of the schema WML I guess 
20110322 21:38:36< mordante> yes the format of the comments can be changed, I expected that that would be needed
20110322 21:39:01< mordante> however I'd like to keep the basic structure we have now
20110322 21:40:48< mordante> also WML only has key value pairs and sub structures, so there are no attributes (in the XML sense)
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20110322 21:41:21< grigoryj_> when I say attributes I mean keys
20110322 21:42:21< grigoryj_> We'll definitely need some improvement with type definition in the wiki comments
20110322 21:43:07< grigoryj_> because my version of WML schema introduces the concept of types and allows defining new types
20110322 21:43:20< mordante> I thought you would say that, maybe to avoid confusion rename them to keys
20110322 21:43:28< grigoryj_> will do
20110322 21:44:13< mordante> maybe you can include a sample how you think the wiki comment should look as well
20110322 21:44:23< grigoryj_> Okay
20110322 21:44:49< mordante> and I'm not opposed to changes, we have several table styles that do almost the same
20110322 21:45:04< mordante> so a bit more structure there wouldn't hurt
20110322 21:46:08< mordante> I'm about to leave, best leave a message in the log when you want me to look at your changes
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20110322 21:47:23< grigoryj_> Ok, thanks for the comments!
20110322 21:47:39< mordante> you're welcome
20110322 21:51:48< mordante> I'm off night
20110322 21:52:08< timotei> bye mordante 
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20110322 21:58:08< CIA-89> loonycyborg * r48977 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/window_builder.cpp: Fixed mingw startup crash. The same story as with r42556 and r42019
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20110322 22:01:17< zaroth> aah
20110322 22:01:54< zaroth> there are definite drawbacks to develop UMC using svn versions ;-)
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20110322 22:03:29< zaroth> did anybody encounter this? http://i.imgur.com/eLKnl.png
20110322 22:04:05< zaroth> it looks like when the text in objectives is too long, some weird graphic smoothing effect kicks in
20110322 22:04:13< zaroth> and makes the whole window unintelligible
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20110322 22:04:36< shadowmaster> it's a known problem with animated widgets on GUI2 dialogs that use blurring
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20110322 22:04:55< shadowmaster> in this case, that only occurs if the objectives are too long for the screen width and cause a scrollbar to appear
20110322 22:05:14< zaroth> thanks, I just wanted to know if I need to report that :-)
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20110322 22:06:03< zaroth> that dialog is also impossible to close so one has to kill wesnoth ...
20110322 22:07:32< shadowmaster> what I don't know is how high it is in mordante's to-do list to fix it
20110322 22:08:00< shadowmaster> from his comments on the titlescreen blur issue I guess it's more of an architectural issue
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20110322 22:39:13< CIA-89> espreon * r48978 /trunk/ (changelog fonts/DejaVuSans.ttf): Updated DejaVu Sans to 2.33.
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20110322 22:47:56< CIA-89> espreon * r48979 /trunk/po/ (54 files in 27 dirs): Fixed plurals info in the Old English po files.
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20110322 22:53:23< e180VVR00M> bouman: Hi, I made some changes to my proposal, can you take a look and tell me what you think?
20110322 22:53:38< Seiyria> boucman*
20110322 22:54:07< e180VVR00M> boucman: I'd like to have some input so I can better adjust it to the project needs.
20110322 22:54:11< e180VVR00M> Yeah, sorry
20110322 22:54:32< e180VVR00M> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Sprite_Sheets2011_ArthurWulf#Questionnaire
20110322 22:54:39< timotei> e180VVR00M: boucman is away for now, he will review it when he'll be back :)
20110322 22:54:56< e180VVR00M> Thanks.. :)
20110322 22:55:18< timotei> yw
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20110322 23:02:40< timotei> night
20110322 23:02:50< elbowroom> gnight
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20110322 23:08:46< CIA-89> espreon * r48980 /trunk/data/languages/ (ang_GB.cfg ang_GB@latin.cfg): Use yogh in the Old English locales instead of regular 'g'.
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20110322 23:12:58< vdaras> hey 
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 23 00:00:45 2011