--- Log opened Sat Mar 26 00:00:01 2011
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20110326 00:31:09< Ivanovic> mordante: what is the status of the issue from the ML (the regression/feature removal) you mentioned to me?
20110326 00:31:13< Ivanovic> is this already handled?
20110326 00:31:31< Ivanovic> ML thread "[Wesnoth-dev] side=1 as default - what to do with it ?"
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20110326 02:05:04< dayoung> are there any dev still awake? I'd like to mark my forum account as a GSoC student account, forum name "dayoung"
20110326 02:05:20< Gambit> shadowmaster: ^
20110326 02:06:08< shadowmaster> you already made a page in the wiki about your proposal, etc.? :)
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20110326 02:06:40< dayoung> I have the questionnaire all filled but I'm flushing out the idea locally before I post it up on the wiki
20110326 02:07:11< dayoung> I'm going for the C++/Lua AI bindings
20110326 02:07:30< shadowm_laptop> dayoung: okay, added you
20110326 02:07:35< dayoung> shadowm_laptop: thank you
20110326 02:07:42< shadowm_laptop> no problem
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20110326 02:08:18< dayoung> do you happen to know how many mentors wesnoth has available?
20110326 02:09:18< shadowm_laptop> I think there are four of them (boucman, Crab_, fendrin/fabi and mordante), but I'm not 100% sure
20110326 02:10:00< dayoung> is anyone in particular the mentor for AI?
20110326 02:10:29< fendrin> dayoung: That will most likely be Crab.
20110326 02:10:39< dayoung> fendrin: =) excellent, thank you
20110326 02:12:16< fendrin> dayoung: You are welcome.
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20110326 04:23:23< gsoc_fabien> hi there
20110326 04:23:25< gsoc_fabien> i'm new
20110326 04:23:36< gsoc_fabien> and i would like to participate to the gsoc
20110326 04:23:49< gsoc_fabien> i'm ready the wiki about it
20110326 04:24:21< Sirp> hi gsoc_fabien, welcome.
20110326 04:24:34< gsoc_fabien> thank you
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20110326 04:26:24< gsoc_fabien> i just registered to the forum, my nickname is Fabien
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20110326 05:11:14< shadowmaster> gsoc_fabien: added you
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20110326 05:39:00< gsoc_fabien> thank you
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20110326 05:59:26-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.5 planned for the next weekend | Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 192 bugs, 304 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110326 08:14:52< boucman> morning all
20110326 08:19:36< shadowmaster> boucman: you don't read the logs? :p
20110326 08:19:55< boucman> rarely these days, did I miss something important ?
20110326 08:20:13< shadowmaster> no. it's just that two or three days ago I asked something and never got an answer
20110326 08:20:33< boucman> oops, sorry, what was it ?
20110326 08:20:36< shadowmaster> so, let me try again
20110326 08:21:07< shadowmaster> how do I play a unit's *recruiting* (not recruited) animation with [animate_unit[] ?
20110326 08:22:03< shadowmaster> I actually, on third inspection, the animation I want to play has a filter. hmmm.
20110326 08:23:14< boucman> apply_to=recruiting I guess
20110326 08:23:23< boucman> ok
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20110326 08:24:06< shadowmaster> sigh. this will make my WML+lua sequence substantially more complex :(
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20110326 08:24:26< boucman> :(
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20110326 08:31:52< shadowmaster> aw, so many people using lua and no-one has come up with a function to invoke [animate_unit]'s backend code dirctly
20110326 08:32:40< boucman> shadowmaster: you should have a look to the [harm_unit] patch
20110326 08:32:52< boucman> I think it does something like that, gimme a sec to find it
20110326 08:33:13< boucman> https://gna.org/patch/?2470
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20110326 08:34:55< shadowmaster> that patch still relies on using WML from Lua
20110326 08:35:19< boucman> oh, ok
20110326 08:35:45< shadowmaster> which I find unelegant, but if there's no alternative, I guess that'll do
20110326 08:40:31< boucman> agreed
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20110326 08:43:35< mordante> servus
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20110326 08:48:45< mordante> Ivanovic, I think nothing has been done on the issue, pinged Espreon yesterday since he committed the patch
20110326 08:48:55< mordante> but no reply thusfar
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20110326 09:17:34< shadowmaster> Crab_: um, I'm carrying around some old code which contains a [goal] tag (with a [criteria] child and a value attribute) in my campaign, but I can't find anything about [goal] in the wiki under AiWML. Am I making up code, or this is something that used to exist, or it's undocumented?
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20110326 10:02:29< Salade> hi
20110326 10:02:54< boucman> hello
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20110326 10:04:03< Salade> i've added a Macro list on my site - http://wesnoth.cybergamecity.com/dev/macros
20110326 10:04:32< Salade> it basically list all macros under the macro directories in a table, and is searchable
20110326 10:06:27< Salade> i use it to lookup macro content when i don't want to use ultraedit to do file search. 
20110326 10:08:53< mordante> hi Salade 
20110326 10:09:09< Salade> hey
20110326 10:09:09< mordante> Salade, just curious how did you generate that page, manually or a script?
20110326 10:09:12< boucman> that's nice, how did you generate it ? any way to autogenerate/incorporate into the wiki ?
20110326 10:09:16< Salade> well.. it actually is a server application. a copy of wesnoth is in the file system, and app read the wml for the content
20110326 10:09:16< Salade> so it's neither manually nor script
20110326 10:09:47< Salade> if the wiki support embedding content , it should be possible
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20110326 10:12:40< mordante> so it's automated
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20110326 10:15:11< Salade> assume the wiki support iframe, i could make a link without the layout template. but it still wont' look as good as on my side because, say u can't easily change the 'row per page' settings to resize the table
20110326 10:15:13< Salade> unless u make the iframe very tall :-)
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20110326 10:38:05< Ivanovic> mordante: okay, then i'll have to wait for some solution for this
20110326 10:38:09< Ivanovic> moin, btw
20110326 10:38:17< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20110326 10:38:29< Ivanovic> (otherwise i'd have a look at releasing in about an hour)
20110326 10:39:32 * mordante hopes Espreon fixes it ASAP
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20110326 10:41:44 * Ivanovic looks at Espreon (who is marked "away")
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20110326 10:52:44< CIA-89> zookeeper * r49006 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/19_The_Vanguard.cfg: Updated Jessene's mention of Jevyan's familiar from "that bat" to "that skull".
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20110326 11:31:55< DragonSky> #python
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20110326 11:55:59< mordante> Espreon, data/campaigns/Dead_Water/units/Soldier_King.cfg:30 the -- should it be replaced by a e[m|n]-dash?
20110326 11:57:17< Ivanovic> mordante: you could check pofix.py to see what a "--" should be replaced with and just do so for this string
20110326 11:57:19< Ivanovic> ;)
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20110326 12:14:46< CIA-89> ivanovic * r49007 /trunk/po/ (24 files in 20 dirs): updated Galician and Irish translation
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20110326 13:43:34< CIA-89> mordante * r49008 /trunk/ (changelog data/gui/default/window/transient_message.cfg): 
20110326 13:43:34< CIA-89> Allow text wrapping in the transient dialog.
20110326 13:43:34< CIA-89> Found during a code review, also reported by Shadowmaster and reported
20110326 13:43:34< CIA-89> in bug #17945.
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20110326 13:57:45< vjoe> hello
20110326 13:57:53< timotei> hi vjoe 
20110326 13:58:01< mordante> hi vjoe 
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20110326 14:04:49< Qbunia_> some1 seeen Crab_ here?
20110326 14:05:23< boucman> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110326 14:05:23 * Nephro is so horribly lost in Crab_'s code
20110326 14:05:23< wesbot> boucman: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 22h 36m ago.  21h 15m ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20110326 14:05:44< fendrin> hello
20110326 14:05:52< boucman> Nephro: what part ?
20110326 14:05:59< Nephro> boucman, aspects
20110326 14:06:09< boucman> ouch :)
20110326 14:06:15< boucman> yeah you need crab for that
20110326 14:06:53< mordante> hi fendrin 
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20110326 14:07:51< fendrin> PlaneShift is accepted into gsoc. Nice.
20110326 14:08:30< Qbunia_> ok htx
20110326 14:09:51< Nephro> How long will senior devs evaluate candidate students for GSoC? It seems the 27th came faster than I managed to get rid of school and finish my tasks and I can't do it today, because I need to travel home
20110326 14:10:06< Nephro> Do I still have a chance if I work next week?
20110326 14:10:36< vdaras> evaluation period has not started yet afaik
20110326 14:11:20-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110326 14:13:28< timotei21> Nephro: the student application begins only on 28 march.
20110326 14:13:58< Nephro> Hmm, I know, but I thought that the senior devs base their decisions on the work done in march
20110326 14:14:00< timotei21> Nephro: so you have time to show how good you are, till at least 8 April
20110326 14:14:21< Nephro> That's good news
20110326 14:15:10< mordante> Nephro, and we want you to work in the wiki so you can still update your proposal after the deadline
20110326 14:15:53< Nephro> mordante, which deadline? I planned to fill in the wiki page tonight, while I sleep in the airport :)
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20110326 14:16:29< timotei21> Nephro: student deadline
20110326 14:16:30< timotei21> 8 April
20110326 14:16:34< Nephro> But I needed to discuss some things with Crab_, because it seems that only he knows the amount of work for his idea (LuaAI)
20110326 14:17:20< Nephro> Ah, well, there still is some time... The uni is finally gone and tomorrow I can dedicate myself to the project only
20110326 14:17:25< mordante> yeah just make sure you apply before the 8th if there are some things left to discuss we can do that until the 22th
20110326 14:17:51< mordante> but probably we will make our decision the weekend before
20110326 14:18:41< timotei21> http://herbsutter.com/2011/03/25/we-have-fdis-trip-report-march-2011-c-standards-meeting/
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20110326 14:19:50< timotei21> mordante: can you recommend a good C++ book? (note, C++ not C). Is it thinking in C++ by bruce eckel good (enough)?
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20110326 14:20:17< timotei21> cause I think I've dived too much in managed languages, and forgot the rest of the iceberg xD
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20110326 14:21:33< mordante> timotei21, I like "The C++ Programming Language Special Edition", but what do you want to learn?
20110326 14:22:08< mordante> nice link, so it's really coming soon :-)
20110326 14:22:11< Sytyi> mordante: hi
20110326 14:22:27< mordante> hi Sytyi 
20110326 14:22:33< vjoe> fendrin: are you around tomorrow?
20110326 14:22:40< mordante> Sytyi, I read your wiki page and are somewhat confuse
20110326 14:22:45< mordante> confused*
20110326 14:23:05< timotei21> mordante: well, until know I haven't learned formally C++, just by reading from time to time different articles, and trying to do things by myself. I plan to take a book and read it from start to (let's hope) finish.
20110326 14:23:05< vjoe> im going to have a look at how things fit together today and I would like to maybe do some initial brainstorming with u tomorrow
20110326 14:23:19< vjoe> how what to do to achieve the unification of mp and sp
20110326 14:23:30< mordante> Sytyi, you need to validate WML after the parser has processed WML so the macros are no longer there
20110326 14:23:41< vjoe> and crab too if he is around ofc!
20110326 14:24:40< mordante> timotei21, personally I would consider to wait until the C++0x is finalized, IIRC I read there will be a fourth edition of the C++ Programming Language
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20110326 14:26:09< Nephro> timotei21, TCPPPL is kind of hard to read, but is considered the best one out there... I took a course on C++, but read Accelerated C++ to revise, seemed a good book to me. Don't be scared by the Accelerated part, it is not some "learn in 2 hours" book :)
20110326 14:26:12< Sytyi> mordante: I tried to study WML all points of viewl. Last time you said that you can probably find a task for me. I didn't know in which area it could be, so I  tried to do all. 
20110326 14:27:08< mordante> Nephro, I found it rather easy to read 
20110326 14:27:36< Sytyi> mordante: and now I'm thinking about the parsing algorithms, and about stack using automat parsing tool
20110326 14:27:46< timotei21> Nephro: I don't want to study it in 2 hours >D
20110326 14:28:06< Nephro> timotei21, well, that's why I said it is not from those series :)
20110326 14:28:39< Nephro> mordante, I found it hard to read, not because of the complexity of the material, rather because it's kind of boring, and my eyes went sleepy very fast
20110326 14:29:15< mordante> Sytyi, I hoped for a schema definition and then find a task to already implement a part of it or write some proof-of-concept
20110326 14:29:45< mordante> Nephro, yes I assumed that, but I read books much dryer, this book was still rather easy to read for me
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20110326 14:31:28< mordante> Sytyi, I think we should talk about the proposal a bit more, I'm not entirely sure whether we're on the same wavelength
20110326 14:31:55< Nephro> Well, I think it's good practice to get started with something like Accelerated C++ and use TCPPPL as a reference and synchronously read chapters from both
20110326 14:32:41-!- vdaras [~vassilis@athedsl-272765.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110326 14:32:41< Nephro> That gives somewhat of a 3rd dimension in the study, together with the practice 
20110326 14:35:41< mordante> timotei21, and if you want to learn C++ formally you can always read the C++ standard 
20110326 14:35:44 * mordante ducks
20110326 14:35:58< timotei21> hmm... yeah, could be
20110326 14:36:20< Sytyi> mordante: unfortunately, yes. I was researching about a formal  WML grammar. I thought about two versions of validation tool, one to generate schema from cpp, and validating preprocessed WML, and another to validate unpreprocessed WML, returning user-friendly errors like "The % parameter in macro %name%  is missing"
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20110326 14:37:48< mordante> Sytyi, the problem with non-preprocessed WML is that it can be `unbalanced' a opening tag is hidden in a macro and its closing tag not
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20110326 14:38:20< mordante> so that would be much harder to parse
20110326 14:38:55< mordante> and the main goal of the project is to make sure that the engine is fed proper WML
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20110326 14:40:20< mordante> so the validation of macros and their parameters could be a secondary task, some of it is already done in wmllint
20110326 14:41:18< mordante> also for a proposal, it's often a better idea to give a global view first and get into the details later
20110326 14:42:50< mordante> at the moment you've written a nice EBNF grammer, but you're proposal doesn't tell me how you want to use the grammar
20110326 14:43:20< Gambit> timotei21: In the setup of the UMC IDE, what should be in these boxes? It's not clear what it's expecting.
20110326 14:43:47< Gambit> And the readme was no help here.
20110326 14:43:59< Gambit> Also you should include that with the download.
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20110326 14:50:04< Salade> gambit: i installed the UMC IDE once. basically i use a normal eclipse and then download the UMC IDE as an eclipse plugin. the readme isn't clear about that and it perhaps assumed ppl know how to install plugin in eclipse
20110326 14:50:39< Gambit> I got the standalone version.
20110326 14:50:51< Gambit> Turns out my problems stem from not answering the questions in order. :|
20110326 14:54:24 * Nephro decided to step through the aspect code... Will msvc manage to do that?
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20110326 14:56:30< Gambit> Looks like some terrain macros were removed or renamed between 1.8 and 1.9
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20110326 14:58:59< Gambit> wmllint doesn't appear to know, and it's not in the changelog.
20110326 15:07:01< Sytyi> mordante: Ok. Now I will divide grammar for UNpreprocessed and preprocessed WML. Then I will  work on the alogoritm of parser. (something like stack automat). The parser will read tags from special files, and each tag will contain a list of possible keys. When automat will read wml file, it will check, is this key allowed in this  tag. 
20110326 15:12:27< fendrin> Sytyi: Maybe my opinion on that matter differs from mordante but you may want to hear another opinion. I would not go that way. Just validate preprocessed WML. The preprocessor is already doing a good job in finding errors with it's commands.
20110326 15:14:48< fendrin> Sytyi: Also the syntax of WML is already validated fine. The validator project is more about semantic, not syntax. And we already have the semantic defined in form of the schema.cfg files.
20110326 15:16:15< mordante> Sytyi, what fendrin said
20110326 15:16:48< mordante> fendrin, no it doesn't differ, just of there's time left adding validation for macro parameters could be done in a stand-alone program
20110326 15:17:02< mordante> fendrin, but it's certainly not the primary goal
20110326 15:17:57< mordante> Sytyi, also best give a global overview of your idea before diving into algorithms 
20110326 15:24:40< vultraz> how many hour left before 1.9.5 ?
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20110326 15:53:50< mordante> I'm off bye
20110326 15:54:08< timotei21> bye mordante 
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20110326 17:59:26-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.5 planned for the next weekend | Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 191 bugs, 304 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110326 18:50:19< BaronControl> For the whiteboard suggestion, it's recommended to jump in and try to fix/trace some of the bugs there-present. So, go into the code and toss debug statements where I think there will be problems?
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20110326 19:40:31< BaronControl> Is it at all useful to say when bugs 'aren't' present?
20110326 19:40:56< BaronControl> I mean, if I tried and failed to reproduce one on a given system configuration.
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20110326 19:42:08< TronPaul_> not sure, I'd say that go ahead
20110326 19:42:11< TronPaul_> in the comments
20110326 19:42:30< TronPaul_> make sure you're using the same build though
20110326 19:42:32< TronPaul_> as the bug
20110326 19:43:09< BaronControl> Aah. Alright; so different build \= add comment.
20110326 19:43:13< BaronControl> Darn.
20110326 19:44:39< TronPaul_> well
20110326 19:44:44< TronPaul_> like if it's 1.9
20110326 19:44:52< TronPaul_> and you're on stable (1.8)
20110326 19:44:57< TronPaul_> or wtvr
20110326 19:44:59< TronPaul_> don't comment
20110326 19:45:09< TronPaul_> but if running that build go ahead
20110326 19:49:23< boucman> BaronControl: it's for you to juge, if you thing the change <rt the original config is usefull to point out the bug, add a comment
20110326 20:00:43< timotei21> whois sebi^
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20110326 21:08:52< Crab_> shadowmaster: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8#AI_goals_.28_via_.5Bgoal.5D_tags_.29
20110326 21:09:47< shadowmaster> oh
20110326 21:10:11< shadowmaster> thanks
20110326 21:11:18< Crab_> shadowmaster: basically, some of ai actions use 'markers' placed on map, in the form {location,type,value}. there are different types of markers, they have the behavior 'move units there (to that location/unit)' or 'move units there if enemy units are near that location/unit'.
20110326 21:11:55< Crab_> shadowmaster: there are implicit markers, placed by village_value aspect and leader_value aspect - it marks villages and enemy leaders as targets if aspects have value > 0
20110326 21:12:09< Crab_> shadowmaster: and [goal] tags allow to add explicit target markers.
20110326 21:12:24< Crab_> shadowmaster: feel free to suggest additional types of target markers
20110326 21:14:30-!- Seiyria_ is now known as Seiyria
20110326 21:15:39< Crab_> hi, Nephro
20110326 21:15:57< Crab_> Nephro: any questions at this point ? or you've figured everything out ?
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20110326 21:18:14< Nephro> Hello Crab_ , I actually was looking for you today, I tried stepping through aspect construction and got horribly confused. A lot of question arose, but I can't ask today, since I have a plane soon and I need to travle to the airport. Tomorrow I'll be home and stay there till the 17th of april, so I'll be able to work. I also have a normal pc at home, which helps a lot too :) If I see you tomorrow I will ask the quest
20110326 21:18:14< Nephro> ions ok
20110326 21:18:17< Nephro> ?
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20110326 21:18:29< Crab_> yes, of course
20110326 21:18:35< Crab_> or you can leave the questions in the log.
20110326 21:18:47< Crab_> just be sure to mention my nickname somewhen nearby :)
20110326 21:19:40< vjoe> hey Crab_ 
20110326 21:19:49< vjoe> could I please have access to the GSoC section in the forum?
20110326 21:21:21< Crab_> vjoe: sorry, I don't know about any GSoC sections in the forum.
20110326 21:21:55< Crab_> vjoe: can you explain more ? maybe I (or shadowmaster), would be able to point in the right direction.
20110326 21:22:03< timotei21> vjoe: there is no such things. maybe you refer to the GSoC members group?
20110326 21:22:10< timotei21> s/refer/are referring
20110326 21:22:16< Crab_> timotei21: he's already in 'SoC Applicant' group
20110326 21:22:17< vjoe> ohhh, I thought there was a section
20110326 21:22:18< vjoe> sorry
20110326 21:22:24< timotei21> Crab_: oh. ok
20110326 21:22:26< vjoe> I misunderstood
20110326 21:22:29< Crab_> all's ok
20110326 21:22:41< timotei21> vjoe: well, last year's gsocers posted in the developers forums
20110326 21:22:43< timotei21> forum*
20110326 21:22:48< vjoe> yep
20110326 21:23:07< timotei21> so that may be considered part ofthe "GSoC section" :P
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20110326 22:06:29< mordante> servus
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20110326 22:09:07< Espreon> Note to self: except for language_win32.ii, never touch src/
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20110326 22:22:23< CIA-89> espreon * r49009 /trunk/ (58 files in 3 dirs): Converted a fake em dash to a real one; fixed spacing.
20110326 22:22:39< mordante> Espreon, did you see my email?
20110326 22:22:50< Espreon> What email?
20110326 22:22:58< mordante> the one to the dev-ml
20110326 22:23:26< Espreon> Yes; Crab_ told me he'd deal with it.
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20110326 23:23:13< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Sun Mar 27 00:00:52 2011