--- Log opened Thu Mar 31 00:00:03 2011
20110331 00:00:07< zaroth> KB1PKL: and maybe a little of social contact sometimes...?
20110331 00:00:17< KB1PKL> zaroth: Isn't that what this is? ;-)
20110331 00:00:26< zaroth> KB1PKL: and by that I mean outside of #wesnoth-* irc and wesnoth forums ;-)
20110331 00:00:28< Disruption> Crab_:No project is small when you are looking at the code for the first time not being familiar with it :P
20110331 00:00:47< Crab_> sloccount gives me 'Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): cpp:         157483 (90.90%) ansic:        15770 (9.10%)'
20110331 00:01:05< Crab_> where ansic is lua code
20110331 00:01:16< Crab_> (the sources of the interpreter)
20110331 00:02:16< Crab_> btw, when you look at http://pastebin.com/ZTVvng9e , you see the issue immediately - too much stuff is in the top directory, without clear separation of responsibilities
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20110331 00:03:54< Disruption> top dir contains as much as the rest of dirs together, or even more it seems?
20110331 00:04:20< boucman> ok, night all
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20110331 00:04:33< Crab_> more than half
20110331 00:05:10< Disruption> a bit less actually. There are 2585 lines of code of difference
20110331 00:05:22< Disruption> that is, top dir has 2585 lines less than all other directories together
20110331 00:05:28< Crab_> don't forget ansic
20110331 00:05:41< Disruption> I counted both
20110331 00:05:51< Disruption> I used the left column, which has the totals
20110331 00:05:57< Crab_> ok
20110331 00:06:00< Crab_> yes, you're right
20110331 00:06:37< KB1PKL> (Whenever you all have a lull in conversation I have something to say, but don't stop because of me)
20110331 00:07:00< Disruption> anyways, it's a 49.2%, so for statistic purposes it can be taken as 50%
20110331 00:07:15< Crab_> Disruption: so, there's plenty of stuff that can/should be taken out of there
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20110331 00:07:50< Disruption> a bit more reordering could be done I suppose, to modularize a bit more
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20110331 00:08:14< Disruption> can that sloc-by-language be seen also by file?
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20110331 00:08:34< Crab_> Disruption: main problem is that there's no clean  'engine' code to do modifications to game state. gui code is entangled with engine code
20110331 00:08:42< Disruption> I see
20110331 00:08:54< Disruption> that's why I like MVC design
20110331 00:09:04< Disruption> you can touch one side without affecting the other
20110331 00:09:07< Crab_> this makes it hard to expose game functionality to lua, as well
20110331 00:09:17< Disruption> Yeah, I suppose
20110331 00:09:21< Disruption> there are important things everywhere
20110331 00:09:25< Disruption> mixed with many other things
20110331 00:10:11< Crab_> Disruption: you want to see line counts for each file ?
20110331 00:10:17< Disruption> for top folder only
20110331 00:10:57< Disruption> as that's the one "overcrowded"
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20110331 00:12:42< zaroth> mordante: since my PDF reader (Okular) doesn't allow the listing line linking to be clickable and I don't have twin monitors, I find reading the examples' code quite tedious
20110331 00:13:07< Crab_> Disruption: something like that - http://pastebin.com/jehHuxD1
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20110331 00:13:33< zaroth> mordante: perhaps the comments could be somehow included in the cover listing, even as a hover tooltips? (I'm no expert with TeX, so I don't know if it's possible)
20110331 00:13:54< zaroth> mordante: or at least make the links clickable... that would help a lot as well
20110331 00:14:35< Disruption> 290 files all in all
20110331 00:14:53< Disruption> menu events has almost 3000 lines
20110331 00:14:59< zaroth> mordante: the footnotes links work fine (are clickable and everything), however, even if not very much needed (they're quite easy to find if somebody asked me ;-) )
20110331 00:15:02< Disruption> must be a biggie
20110331 00:15:03< Crab_> (the command was something like ' sloccount --details ./ | grep -v Adding | grep top_dir | sort -rg  ' )
20110331 00:15:16< zaroth> Disruption: you bet...
20110331 00:15:51< zaroth> Disruption: and when I asked why is it so big, I got something like "we needed a big ugly container to put stuff in, so we created it"
20110331 00:16:03< Disruption> yeah
20110331 00:16:13< Disruption> that file is called "menu_events.cpp" because "dustbin.cpp" sounded bad
20110331 00:16:14< Disruption> :P
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20110331 00:17:30< Crab_> size is not a problem, but violation of single responsibility principle  is.
20110331 00:17:39< Disruption> menu_events seems like the View Controller in a MVC approach
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20110331 00:18:00< Disruption> but it seems to be all put together instead of modularized
20110331 00:18:01< Crab_> for example, if we open that menu_events.cpp, and take a look at the 'gui::dialog_button_action::RESULT delete_recall_unit::button_pressed(int menu_selection)' function
20110331 00:18:26< Crab_> it does some control flow with all that messages, this is ok
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20110331 00:19:22< Crab_> but then it  (1) modifies the undo stack (2) removes the unit from recall list, (3) records stuff to replay, ... , (4) modifies the redo stack
20110331 00:20:05< Crab_> a lot of stuff that it shouldn't know about or mess with, it just needs to call a callback passing a unit reference to it
20110331 00:20:42< Disruption> It's easy to see that it's an overused file
20110331 00:21:04< Crab_> so, for example, if someone will want to code a 'dismiss unit from recall list' function for lua, he'll need to duplicate all the logic...
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20110331 00:22:30< FishbaitHarry> Hello again, I'm a student interested in GSoC - is there someone in charge in here? :-)
20110331 00:22:58< Disruption> so where should all that be managed?
20110331 00:23:04< Disruption> to avoid duplicity
20110331 00:23:28< Crab_> Disruption: I think that there should be some code for "all the low-level stuff which has the 'right' to modify the game state"
20110331 00:23:39< Disruption> like a kernel_controller?
20110331 00:23:41< Crab_> and the interface should just call the correct engine functions
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20110331 00:23:47< Crab_> yes
20110331 00:23:49< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: hello
20110331 00:23:50< Disruption> that makes sense
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20110331 00:24:08< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_People_to_bug_on_IRC provides a good list of people to search for
20110331 00:24:19< Disruption> there should some "middleware class" doing the low calls/System calls per se, as understood in the game engine
20110331 00:24:31< Disruption> and everyone needing changes in that terms should call that sole middleware
20110331 00:24:38< Disruption> like using firmware with devices
20110331 00:24:50< Crab_> Disruption: yes
20110331 00:25:10< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: and  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas contains the proposed project descriptions
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20110331 00:25:15< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: ask questions, if necessary
20110331 00:25:40< Disruption> I suppose the only way of achieving that would actually be making that class, and going file by file searching for "things it shouldn't do" and replacing them by calls to the new controller class
20110331 00:25:43< FishbaitHarry> Crab_: Thanks, I forgot about it. I was thinking about my ideas for the project and since I heard it's still possible to submit something of my own I was wondering about making something AI-related.
20110331 00:25:47< Crab_> Disruption: also, see stuff like menu_handler::unit_list() - it's about 150 lines of gui code - a dialog. we can separate it, make it a separate dialog
20110331 00:26:45< Disruption> unit_list shouldn't be handled almost by the GUI itself?
20110331 00:27:01< Disruption> seems a lot like colouring of things, things to show, etc
20110331 00:27:23< Crab_> Disruption: it's ok (reading, no modifications), but it can be just a separate dialog
20110331 00:27:45< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: yes, it's possible you can make something AI-related. the  rule is, we need you to do the stuff that we want done - expose some parts of engine functionality to lua ai code. so, 1/2 to 2/3 of the project will be related to that, depending on how fast you work. that leaves 1/2 to 1/3 to whatever fancy AI-related ideas you have.
20110331 00:28:31< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: and this is actually good for the student, since we'll be in position to consider the project to be successful even if those fancy AI ideas are not implemented in time/fully.
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20110331 00:28:57< KB1PKL> I'm looking into implementing some form of PBEM. Searching turned up a thread by Dave that had a simple design laid out. Is there any work being done / has there any work been done and is this something doable by someone who knows little C++ (but programs in other languages! (including C)).
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20110331 00:29:15< Crab_> KB1PKL: play-by-email ?
20110331 00:29:19< KB1PKL> Crab_: Yes.
20110331 00:29:34< Disruption> By the way, what algorithm is used for pathfinding? I saw both A* and Dijkstra
20110331 00:29:39< Crab_> Disruption: A*
20110331 00:29:45< KB1PKL> Crab_: Even if I'm the only person who ever uses it (well, me and a friend) I'll be happy :-)
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20110331 00:29:57< Crab_> KB1PKL: yes, it should be simple enough
20110331 00:30:26< FishbaitHarry> Crab_: (At the university I got plenty of AI-related subject right now, that's where these thoughts are coming.) So I'm currently thinking about doing something like implementing something heavyweight for the AI, like Reinforcement Learning. But considering that there is already someone interested in improving the Lua and that many fancy AI coding may not be required I'm also thinking 
20110331 00:30:26< FishbaitHarry> about going for the Simple Content manager instead.
20110331 00:30:40< Crab_> KB1PKL: I guess it's too simple for gsoc, however (it can be easily done by a student in a few days)
20110331 00:31:23< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: if you do the 'mandatory' part fast, you'll have more than enough time to try fancy things. and there are always multiple students interested in ideas...
20110331 00:31:38< KB1PKL> Crab_: wasn't even thinking about SoC.
20110331 00:31:47< Crab_> KB1PKL: ok )
20110331 00:31:54< KB1PKL> Crab_: Although doing a SoC before I graduate (high school!) would be cool :-)
20110331 00:32:11< Crab_> KB1PKL: do you have a vision of the gui part ?
20110331 00:32:23< Crab_> KB1PKL: i.e.,how it'll work/ how it'll look like ?
20110331 00:33:07< Crab_> also, you want to send via smtp(s) ? or via user's default email client ?
20110331 00:33:20< KB1PKL> I think smtp would be better.
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20110331 00:33:54< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: boucman is the person to talk about the simple content manager idea
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20110331 00:34:14< KB1PKL> Dave's outline on the forums (http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3145) seemed decent.
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20110331 00:34:18< Crab_> KB1PKL: it's easier. making a default email client fire up with an attach is not a pretty thing to do, especially on things like mac
20110331 00:35:56< zaroth> mordante: sentence: "this version often has no normal getter but may have a setter". Are you sure that it's not the other way around? (the discussed example has neither of a pointer setter/getter, so I can't tell by that)
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20110331 00:36:26< FishbaitHarry> Crab_: Anyway, do you think it's better to comission for the AI part so that you have more people to choose from or better to cover the available topics and go for the manager (considering I feel proficient enough for either of these tasks)?
20110331 00:36:38< zaroth> mordante: however, it may become clear when I get to the next example, but just wanted to write my ideas as they pop in ;-)
20110331 00:36:52< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: doesn't matter much. what is important is to do stuff that is interesting to you.
20110331 00:37:20< Crab_> Disruption: src/actions.cpp is the file that will need a lot of attention to refactor
20110331 00:38:06< Crab_> KB1PKL: note that there are different types of PBEM ...
20110331 00:38:31< Crab_> KB1PKL: you can use email as transport during the 'normal' game , that is, just sending data without having to quit wesnoth after each turn
20110331 00:38:34< KB1PKL> Crab_: I still have lots of research to do into it. I like the idea of connecting to a central server and having it be asynchronous gameplay, but I'm also a fan of emailing files to each other. Perhaps a sort of diff that the client would be able to parse and detect cheating (unexpected changes from last known gamestate).
20110331 00:38:51< Crab_> KB1PKL: or you can settle for slow game, and quit wesnoth between turns
20110331 00:39:03< KB1PKL> Crab_: The slow game is what I was thinking about.
20110331 00:39:07< Crab_> KB1PKL: wesnoth's MP is *already* async
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20110331 00:39:34< KB1PKL> You can quit the client and join later?
20110331 00:39:43< Crab_> KB1PKL: yes, you'll catch up
20110331 00:39:47< KB1PKL> Interesting.
20110331 00:39:54< Crab_> KB1PKL: the host will only need to give you control back
20110331 00:40:04< FishbaitHarry> Crab_: So, just a technical question - how many students do you plan to take in? Is there an upper limit or is it just related to the tasks/project ideas? Unless it's a secret. :-)
20110331 00:40:06< Crab_> KB1PKL: note that some types of cheating won't be detectable
20110331 00:40:11< KB1PKL> So the host still needs to be connected, correct.
20110331 00:40:17< zaroth> KB1PKL: there is also a save feature, without which most long games on mp server wouldn't be possible
20110331 00:40:27< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: we have 4 mentors; generally, number of students taken <= number of mentors.
20110331 00:40:50< Crab_> KB1PKL: you can take a MP game and load it as a single player game
20110331 00:41:27< Crab_> KB1PKL: basically, the 'save' is a replay of all the stuff that happened, plus snapshot of the 'current' situation
20110331 00:41:31< zaroth> KB1PKL: for PBEM you can actually play on the same savegame in hotseat mode
20110331 00:42:07< Crab_> KB1PKL: so, you only need to automate the sending and receiving of PBEM saves, coding some small gui2 dialogs to invoke a smtp helper application
20110331 00:42:10< FishbaitHarry> I'll go finish my proposal page then, thanks and cya.
20110331 00:42:21< Crab_> FishbaitHarry: ok, good luck to you
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20110331 00:43:09< Crab_> KB1PKL: I suggest using an external smtp sender for start
20110331 00:43:15< Crab_> KB1PKL: like a command-line tool
20110331 00:43:26< Crab_> and then invoke it from wesnoth
20110331 00:43:33< Disruption> are savefiles encoded/encrypted? Or are they plain xml/plist/other readable thing? I haven't checked them, just wondering
20110331 00:43:34< KB1PKL> Crab_: C++ doesn't have one in the stdlib?
20110331 00:43:52< Crab_> KB1PKL: no.
20110331 00:44:06< Crab_> KB1PKL: there is low level stuff (sockets and such), but it's way too level.
20110331 00:44:12< KB1PKL> I've been spoiled by higher level languages I guess.
20110331 00:44:31< Crab_> KB1PKL: we have boost::asio for more high-level things, but still, it's not SMTP
20110331 00:44:32< Disruption> sockets are cute :3
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20110331 00:44:34< KB1PKL> I return in about 30 minutes, but it looks a lot more tackleable now than it did 10 minutes ago.
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20110331 00:44:46< Crab_> Disruption: gzipped WML (can be turned off)
20110331 00:44:55< zaroth> KB1PKL: there was also a FR for implementing a screen delaying switching players in local games to avoid cheating by seeing their fog of war-less terrain (like in homm, when you see just black screen between hotseat turns), so it'd be even nicer to play PBEM with this
20110331 00:44:59< Disruption> I was thinking in cheating actually, for the PBM
20110331 00:45:14< Crab_> Disruption:  you can always cheat without the server
20110331 00:45:23< Disruption> yes, I supposed as much
20110331 00:45:42< Crab_> Disruption: save, do the attack, if you don't like the result, load.
20110331 00:45:49< zaroth> Disruption: and even with server you can, I just discovered this by adding a game_inspector twin command (as for now) without forcing debug mode to use it
20110331 00:46:02< Crab_> Disruption: even with sticky rng you'd only need to do the attacks in different order to get different results.
20110331 00:46:23< Crab_> zaroth: some forms of cheating are not preventable
20110331 00:46:25< zaroth> Disruption: with this copy of game I have now I could see any WML of units (even behind the fog) and get any knowledge of my enemy i want ;-)
20110331 00:46:39< Crab_> zaroth: even with stock wesnoth, just enable logging and you can see what the enemy has recruited
20110331 00:46:54< Crab_> zaroth: you don't need a modified client for that.
20110331 00:47:09< Crab_> zaroth: of course, you can just disable fog of war
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20110331 00:47:52< Crab_> zaroth: for starcraft, they actually record the position of player's viewpoint at all time. so, you'd see if the player was starting in the fog for too long..
20110331 00:48:23< Disruption> statistics can be useful sometimes
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20110331 00:50:45< zaroth> mordante: "Normally it works if not too bad and look through the other widgets to see how to fix it." - aargh, seriously, bracket and commas don't bite ;-)
20110331 00:50:57< zaroth> s/bracket/brackets/
20110331 00:52:58< Disruption> Crab_: Anyways, I think cheating could be somehow controlled in the case of playing in turns by loading and sending for example
20110331 00:53:06< Disruption> to avoid user replaying turn again and again, or things like that
20110331 00:54:18< Crab_> Disruption: I don't think that it should be controlled in this case
20110331 00:54:36< zaroth> mordante: "dully add your class to the list": erm, I may have missed it a bit, but it's not entirely clear what list you mean here...
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20110331 00:55:03< Disruption> I suppose that if two persons play together that way the chance of cheating gets lower too
20110331 00:55:21< zaroth> (btw, looking at the number of these comments, I should probably have written a mail instead...)
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20110331 00:56:37< KB1PKL> zaroth: "there was also a FR for implementing..." What is a FR?
20110331 00:56:52< zaroth> KB1PKL: feature request at http://bugs.wesnoth.org
20110331 00:57:02< KB1PKL> Ah.
20110331 00:57:29< Crab_> zaroth: you can use the talk page for the article...
20110331 00:57:38< Crab_> zaroth: or any other page in the wiki
20110331 00:58:20< KB1PKL> zaroth: So the screen would black out, a button would pop up for when the next player sits down, and when they are seated they hit the button and their turn pops up?
20110331 00:59:05< zaroth> Crab_: yeah, I'll do that, thanks
20110331 00:59:21< Disruption> I'm staring at actions.cpp
20110331 00:59:27< Disruption> No reaction so far
20110331 00:59:28< KB1PKL> zaroth: Didn't see anything in the tracker, probably didn't search right.
20110331 01:00:34< zaroth> KB1PKL: I saw this FR in tracker like ~2 years ago, and I remember foggily that grzywacz had something to do with it (was assigned to it or commented on it)
20110331 01:00:37< KB1PKL> Oh, found it.
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20110331 01:00:55< zaroth> however, it doesn't seem to be the matter anymore, so you can't use it for finding it
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20110331 01:01:06< zaroth> KB1PKL: nice, could you link it here?
20110331 01:01:09< KB1PKL> https://gna.org/bugs/?3856
20110331 01:01:39< zaroth> yeah, that's the one
20110331 01:01:55< zaroth> oh, it's still assigned to grzywacz, so I must have missed it somehow
20110331 01:02:23< zaroth> I'll add it to my nice-to-would-have-done GSoC list :-)
20110331 01:03:03< Disruption> report is from 2004
20110331 01:03:09< Disruption> more than 6 years ago
20110331 01:03:56< zaroth> yeah, I tried coding it 2 years ago, but was quickly overwhelmed by the task (my c++ knowledge was nowhere near my today knowledge on top of that)
20110331 01:04:29< zaroth> I hope to do it one day :-)
20110331 01:04:36< KB1PKL> So with PBEM - would it become part of Wesnoth or would it be an addon? Are there even such things as addons for that?
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20110331 01:04:54< Crab_> KB1PKL: if done, it can become a part of wesnoth
20110331 01:05:02< Crab_> if done securely, that is
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20110331 01:06:02< KB1PKL> What should I start learning to do this task? You mentioned gui2.
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20110331 01:06:30< Crab_> for start, settle on a simplified version of 'how-you-want-it-to-look'
20110331 01:06:48< Crab_> and write down the design document
20110331 01:07:06< Crab_> so, you'll know what you need done
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20110331 01:08:03< Crab_> I guess that boils down 'just after the end of turn, if we are in PBEM, save the game and send it, if sending failed, offer to repeat or to put the file somewhere from where the user can send it by hand'
20110331 01:08:27< Crab_> the 'load game' part would just be 'load a save you get', with no coding involved
20110331 01:09:10< Crab_> later, you can try more fancy stuff (like polling  a mailbox to see if you've got new saves, etc). but let's keep it simple for now
20110331 01:09:33< KB1PKL> The user would be loading the save they got from the email, how would Wesnoth know that's a PBEM game?
20110331 01:09:49< KB1PKL> In which case the end-turn button would really just fire off the email.
20110331 01:09:59< Crab_> KB1PKL: 'from the save', for example
20110331 01:10:11< Crab_> save has got a header of sort
20110331 01:10:15< Crab_> you can put it there
20110331 01:10:27< KB1PKL> I haven't looked at them yet, I should have done that.
20110331 01:10:47< Crab_> you can put all the emails for all the sides in there, and a flag stating that it's a PBEM'
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20110331 01:12:15< Crab_> note that some email clients have a nice feature 'if email which matches FILTER is available, put all it's attachments into DIRECTORY'
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20110331 01:12:35< KB1PKL> That is nice.
20110331 01:12:40< Crab_> this will nicely deal with the 'get saves from email' part with no extra coding
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20110331 01:13:08< KB1PKL> But not all of them, the user still has to find the save.
20110331 01:13:46< Crab_> yes, but you can name the save in any way you like
20110331 01:14:02< Sytyi> night
20110331 01:14:08< Crab_> Sytyi: night
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20110331 01:15:00< Crab_> KB1PKL: if that will be the issue, you can make wesnoth check extra 'incoming' folder for saves
20110331 01:15:16< Crab_> KB1PKL: and make it move the file from that directory into 'normal' save directory once you load it
20110331 01:15:27< Crab_> then finding would be easy
20110331 01:15:40< Crab_> you just hit some switch in 'load game' dialog, and see all the unhandled stuff
20110331 01:15:55< Crab_> then, play (in any order you like)
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20110331 01:16:26< KB1PKL> Would this be something that would reside at the wiki or on the forums? I'm unfamiliar with your dev practices.
20110331 01:16:30< Crab_> or you can make it move the file from that directory into 'normal' save directory once you play your turn(s)
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20110331 01:16:53< Crab_> KB1PKL: ideas for devs are better put on IRC or wiki, if you seek user input better use the forum
20110331 01:17:18< KB1PKL> Alright.
20110331 01:17:32< Crab_> KB1PKL: but, generally, just implement a prototype  )
20110331 01:17:51< Crab_> KB1PKL: also note that if you control sides 1 and 2, you don't need to send after end of turn for side 1
20110331 01:18:21< KB1PKL> Hmm, I didn't even think about more-than-two-players.
20110331 01:18:42< Disruption> It can be 2 players, but with each player controlling more than 1 side
20110331 01:18:50< KB1PKL> Right.
20110331 01:19:01< Disruption> I think that was the actual point Crab_ was trying to make
20110331 01:19:13< Disruption> that the end of Side 1, if you have side 2 too, should not trigger the email send
20110331 01:19:27< KB1PKL> Right.
20110331 01:19:48< Disruption> Although Crab will know better what he was trying to say :P
20110331 01:19:52< KB1PKL> I need a way to map who the current person is and what order the players go in.
20110331 01:20:39< Crab_> Disruption: yes, you're right.
20110331 01:21:05< Crab_> KB1PKL: for start, ask the person to state the email for each side
20110331 01:21:18< Crab_> and treat same emails as same people
20110331 01:21:24< CIA-89> espreon * r49070 /trunk/po/ (6 files in 6 dirs): Updated the Old English translation.
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20110331 01:22:03< KB1PKL> So they are entering the emails for both sides every time, or just before the first turn?
20110331 01:22:12< Crab_> once
20110331 01:22:24< Crab_> we wanted to store the PBEM flag in the save... we can store the mails, too
20110331 01:22:30< Crab_> +provide a small UI to see/change them.
20110331 01:22:38< KB1PKL> Add custom messages, etc.
20110331 01:22:53< KB1PKL> A little mail client right in Wesnoth :-P
20110331 01:22:55< Disruption> so control flow will actually check if the next side's email is equal to actual email
20110331 01:23:03< Crab_> Disruption: yes
20110331 01:23:08< Disruption> and if not, will send save to next controller email
20110331 01:23:09< Crab_> KB1PKL: settle for the outside mail client for start
20110331 01:23:21< Crab_> KB1PKL: no need to code stuff that is already coded, that is.
20110331 01:23:34< Crab_> KB1PKL: there are command-line smtp clients out there
20110331 01:23:39< KB1PKL> By client I mean editor, I don't plan on touching a single socket any time soon.
20110331 01:24:29< Crab_> ok )
20110331 01:26:04< Disruption> poor sockets
20110331 01:26:19< Disruption> they are good guys in the end...
20110331 01:26:21< KB1PKL> I still don't see how to detect who the current player is though. Can I associate the email with some sort of internal identifier that Wesnoth uses, or would I have some sort of "next" field in the save file.
20110331 01:26:41< KB1PKL> That gets updated to the next email in the list when they hit "end turn"
20110331 01:26:45< Disruption> you know what "side" is playing the current turn
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20110331 01:26:52< Disruption> and you can get the email attached to that side
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20110331 01:27:11< Disruption> so when turn ends, you have to check if the next side has the same email has the actual one, or a different one
20110331 01:27:20< Disruption> as*
20110331 01:27:36< Disruption> if the email is the same, turn ends, but control remains for the player, as he owns both sides
20110331 01:27:45< KB1PKL> so in the save file there would be something like "side1="player@example.com"", etc.
20110331 01:27:47< Disruption> if email changes, turn ends, and email is sent to new player
20110331 01:28:07< Disruption> that is something you must decide when designing the header info you are going to include
20110331 01:28:13< Disruption> I'm just supposing here
20110331 01:28:19< Disruption> as always, Crab_ will be able to tell better
20110331 01:29:52< KB1PKL> Big source :|
20110331 01:30:39< Disruption> around 170.000 lines of code :D
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20110331 01:32:16< Crab_> 'I still don't see how to detect who the current player is though.' - you'd be doing it near the end of turn, it'll be in one of play*controller objects. you'll have access to player_number_
20110331 01:32:37< Crab_> the solution proposed by Disruption looks good
20110331 01:33:13< Disruption> sounds like the easiest/Simplest at least
20110331 01:33:52< KB1PKL> Should preventing the person from going back and replaying the turn even be something I'm concerned about?
20110331 01:34:02< Crab_> no
20110331 01:34:13< Crab_> also note that there's resources::play_controller pointer
20110331 01:34:32< Crab_> ( resources::controller )
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20110331 01:34:49< Crab_> it has current_side() method
20110331 01:35:12< Crab_> and resources::teams contain the list of all teams
20110331 01:35:28< CIA-89> espreon * r49071 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/ (index.extra.php index.lang.php index.php): Replaced hyphen-minus with en dash.
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20110331 01:36:03< KB1PKL> my window manager crashed, sorry about that.
20110331 01:36:34< Disruption> well, being 1:36 am, it seems like a good moment for going to sleep
20110331 01:36:37< Disruption> nighty night devs!
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20110331 01:39:50< Crab_> KB1PKL: (repeating...) resources::controller has current_side() method. and resources::teams contain the list of all teams
20110331 01:41:46< KB1PKL> Alright.
20110331 01:41:55< KB1PKL> Are there generated docs somewhere?
20110331 01:42:09< KB1PKL> (Classes and their methods, that is)
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20110331 01:42:33< Crab_> KB1PKL: I recommend using the source
20110331 01:43:02< KB1PKL> So that's a no?
20110331 01:43:16< Crab_> there is, but I don't trust them :)
20110331 01:43:20< Crab_> fgrep -Rn catch ./src | grep end_turn_exception             looks like a good place for start
20110331 01:44:07< KB1PKL> I need the source before I can use the source, that's the problem. svn is chugging away in the background.
20110331 01:44:57< Crab_> see http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1194873
20110331 01:45:10< Crab_> and use the web access to sources to check the places
20110331 01:45:13< CIA-89> espreon * r49072 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/ (index.extra.php index.lang.php): Copyright update.
20110331 01:45:28< Crab_> you want to store the state in one of play*controller* files
20110331 01:45:41< Crab_> and it is one of the places found by that fgrep
20110331 01:45:55< Crab_> so, only 5 places to check
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20110331 01:56:16< KB1PKL> Is there any desire for PBEM by anyone (dev or player) besides me?
20110331 01:57:00< Espreon> Hmmmm?
20110331 01:57:52< KB1PKL> Espreon: I'm implementing (or attempting to implement) a play-by-email feature.
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20110331 01:59:01< zaroth> mordante: I'm done with the reading, I summed up my improvement suggestions in this patch: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?2613
20110331 01:59:18< Espreon> KB1PKL: Oh, I see...
20110331 01:59:36< zaroth> mordante: I also put any more questions I had on this page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Talk:GUIToolkitWML
20110331 02:00:50< zaroth> mordante: and sorry for my nitpicking, I hope you'll find at least some of it useful (I'm also not a native English speaker, but at some places I just felt it could be rephrased better and did it)
20110331 02:01:57< Crab_> KB1PKL: i'm interested in PBEM from the viewpoint of abusing the wesnoth's engine to do certain things, like allowing to start a game from the scenario that was received from outside sources
20110331 02:01:59< zaroth> mordante: overall the document was just what I was looking for, very helpful and descriptive. It gave me a kickstart on the widget I am coding, thanks a lot for your work!
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20110331 02:03:40< zaroth> mordante: I also hope we meet online sometime, so I can actually ask you some questions in a query instead of leaving it in the irclogs ;-)
20110331 02:04:02< KB1PKL> It's like an email....but public.
20110331 02:06:26< zaroth> KB1PKL: yeah, more like a mailing list therefore
20110331 02:06:58< KB1PKL> I suppose.
20110331 02:06:59< zaroth> KB1PKL: however, I should have probably done it in a mail anyway, since it concerns mainly one developer's work
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20110331 02:08:22< zaroth> too late to fix it now, let's just hope that mordante won't get angry with me for not putting it together in one nice mail and other devs won't get angry for cluttering the irc logs...
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20110331 02:08:26< zaroth> good night everyone!
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20110331 02:53:50< ancestral> elias: Making some minor updates to Bestiary
20110331 02:54:31< ancestral> I still need to figure out a good way to make that unit "tree" (yes, everyone, it's not literally a tree)
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20110331 03:03:58< CIA-89> espreon * r49073 /trunk/ (58 files in 3 dirs): Put a diaeresis on the 'i' in 'naive'.
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20110331 03:44:57< Espreon> AI0867: Translation of attack types under "Resistances" in the help system appears to be broken.
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20110331 04:37:21< Espreon> elias: Just reminding you about my desire for the --pbl option
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20110331 05:49:56< Upthorn> are there any students here who have submitted their application at google already?
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20110331 06:00:34< tschmitz_> Upthorn: Nah not yet, sorry.
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20110331 06:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.5, announcing "soon" | Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 190 bugs, 304 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110331 07:46:52< CIA-89> espreon * r49074 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-l/ang@latin.po wesnoth-lib/ang@latin.po): Updated the Old English translation.
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20110331 08:06:19< Upthorn> I have created a wiki project proposal for this year's GSoC
20110331 08:06:23< Upthorn> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_LuaAI_2011
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20110331 08:51:15< zaroth> Crab_: fendrin: fabi: (as I saw on the wesdem photo, fabi/fendrin are the same person, aren't they?) I heavily improved my idea page and would love to hear your feedback on it: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements
20110331 08:51:41< Espreon> zaroth: Yes, fabi = fendrin.
20110331 08:52:15< zaroth> especially if you think what I'm planning to do is too few/too much during one summer or have some more ideas to add, please tell
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20110331 08:54:27< zaroth> mordante: some of the ideas I have require quite an amount of coding GUI2 stuff, I'd like to hear any comments you have as well (especially if I'm right that current create MP dialog isn't GUI2 and what missing widgets are feasible to code during the summer in addition to my main, MP-related tasks)
20110331 08:54:55< zaroth> I'll be here at GMT+1 evening (i.e. after 8:30 PM)
20110331 08:55:29< zaroth> so if any of you will be here, I'll happily discuss with you any comments you have then :-)
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20110331 08:56:17< zaroth> (argh, used will after if, after just how many my English teacher told me "after if there's NO FUTURE, zaroth"...?)
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20110331 10:16:14< Ivanovic> moin
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20110331 10:18:45< timotei> hi :)
20110331 10:23:00< hadleyt_> hello
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20110331 12:17:17< AI0867> Espreon: where exactly are they broken? unit description? elsewhere?
20110331 12:17:31< Ivanovic> who knows the terrain wml best?
20110331 12:17:33< Ivanovic> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33432
20110331 12:20:39< AI0867> that's TerrainGraphicsWML, I can get my stuff to work, but I prefer not to mess with it
20110331 12:22:09< Ivanovic> AI0867: that is why i ask in here for someone who might know it
20110331 12:22:20< Ivanovic> i know that several people already at least had a rough look at things
20110331 12:22:33< Ivanovic> including but not limited on you, boucman, mordante, zookeeper and probably many others
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20110331 12:38:58< Nephro> Is it intended that the progress bar of wesnoth while loading reaches the end, then goes back to the half and has to reach the end again?
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20110331 12:46:29< deekay> Nephro: Not really. Sounds like a bug.
20110331 12:46:53< Nephro> Well, it is so, at least when you do ./wesnoth -t lua_ai -d
20110331 12:50:30< timotei21> Nephro: well, iirc the first bar filling is loading the game for the title screen, while the second for loading the test scenario :)
20110331 12:50:31< deekay> Nephro: I see, but hard to tell if it really goes back, or it seems like it cause for example it starts from scratch with some new data.
20110331 12:50:48< deekay> Yes, like timotei21 said.
20110331 12:50:52< timotei21> Nephro: and it actually starts from start, but it has loaded soemthing before
20110331 12:50:54< Nephro> timotei21, that's what I thought
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20110331 12:51:12< deekay> But I recall some issue with progress bar and downloading some big addons..
20110331 12:51:33-!- fabi is now known as fendrin
20110331 12:56:02< Qbunia> hi?
20110331 12:56:06< Qbunia> fendrin or Ivanovic here
20110331 12:56:06< Qbunia> ?
20110331 12:56:25< timotei> Qbunia: just ask and they wil respond when they will be online/around :)
20110331 12:56:30< timotei> s/wil/will
20110331 12:57:41< Qbunia> mm 
20110331 12:57:44< Qbunia> hwo i can 
20110331 12:57:54< Qbunia> do a trick like you doing that i can i: some1
20110331 12:57:59< Qbunia> and irc says: ACTION!
20110331 12:58:25< timotei> Qbunia: just tell them like they would be online
20110331 12:58:26< timotei> :)
20110331 12:58:40< Qbunia> okey i know but 
20110331 12:58:43< Qbunia> how are you doing this [12:58] <timotei> Qbunia: just tell them like they would be online
20110331 12:58:48< Qbunia> that your name is in red for me ;>
20110331 12:58:57< deekay> Qbunia:   <- like that, your nick at the begining of the line is a hint
20110331 12:59:04< timotei> well, I just write your nick
20110331 12:59:21< Qbunia> i have to write all nick cant i just dunno coppy or something ?
20110331 12:59:25< timotei> you can highlight some one even if you place their nick at the end Qbunia
20110331 12:59:33< timotei> Qbunia: no. there is the TAB
20110331 12:59:43< timotei> after writing first (1-3) chars just press tab :)
20110331 13:00:05< fendrin> deekay: Not quite right, every occurrence of a persons name leads to highlighting at least in my client.
20110331 13:00:09< Qbunia> timotei: works?
20110331 13:00:15< timotei> Qbunia: of course.
20110331 13:00:20< fendrin> deekay: Not only at the beginning.
20110331 13:00:21< Qbunia> fendrin: what a fun 
20110331 13:00:22< Qbunia> :D
20110331 13:00:31< Qbunia> rly omg lol timotei 
20110331 13:00:33< timotei> fendrin: yes. it doesn't matter the position as long as it's the full world
20110331 13:00:40< deekay> fendrin: I did not say you're limited to the beginning. ;p I just provided working example. ;p
20110331 13:00:41< Qbunia> full world o.O!?
20110331 13:00:52< timotei> Qbunia: your full nickname :P
20110331 13:00:55< Qbunia> :)
20110331 13:02:00< Qbunia> timotei: fendrin deekay i have to gtg now cya around
20110331 13:02:02< Qbunia> :D
20110331 13:02:13< timotei> xD
20110331 13:02:33< fendrin> Qbunia: bye
20110331 13:02:37< timotei> aa, writing proposals while listening to wesnoth music is so nice xD
20110331 13:04:36< timotei> deekay: are you the same as dragonking? :P
20110331 13:04:40< timotei> the same person?
20110331 13:04:48< deekay> Indeed I am. :)
20110331 13:04:53< timotei> ok.
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20110331 13:31:21< CIA-89> ivanovic * r49075 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Greek translation
20110331 13:36:43< timotei21> fendrin: hi!
20110331 13:36:53< fendrin> hi timotei21
20110331 13:37:23< timotei21> fendrin: I'm wondering, do you use/know a campaign where a variable is stored and used on multiple files?
20110331 13:37:50< timotei21> fendrin: sinze zookeeper told me that variables can be persisted across scenarios of the same campaign
20110331 13:38:27< fendrin> timotei21: Okay, you maybe you confuse two things here.
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20110331 13:38:52< fendrin> timotei21: Every Wesnoth variable persists till the end of the campaign if not cleared implicitly.
20110331 13:39:12< timotei> so once I say {VARIABLE my_var}
20110331 13:39:19< timotei> ok
20110331 13:39:58< fendrin> timotei: But there are also persistent variables that live independently from savegames and campaigns and can be used in every scenario no matter what campaign it is in.
20110331 13:40:11< timotei> fendrin: oh yeah, Upthorn's last summer project
20110331 13:40:16< fendrin> Right.
20110331 13:40:26< fendrin> timotei: Legend of Wesmere uses both types.
20110331 13:40:29< timotei> wow
20110331 13:40:30< timotei> :D
20110331 13:40:37< timotei> Upthorn: hi
20110331 13:40:57< timotei> fendrin: I'll ask Upthorn (or read the wiki if there is any documentation regarding this)
20110331 13:41:03< timotei> regarding the persisten vars
20110331 13:41:21< timotei> fendrin: also, I think I'll need to have something like a campaign map
20110331 13:41:39< timotei> fendrin: logical one. for trying to resolve the scope of vars/macros
20110331 13:41:45< fendrin> timotei: There are used through quite normal wml tags. So you can read enough to use them in the wml wiki.
20110331 13:41:51< timotei> fendrin: oh. Ok
20110331 13:43:17< timotei> loonycyborg: hi there!
20110331 13:43:23< cemycc> Hello, is it ok to use C++/Qt for the GSoC project: Simple Content Manager ? Or i can only use Python for him ?
20110331 13:43:43< loonycyborg> timotei: Hello..
20110331 13:44:40< timotei> cemycc: zaroth looked on this before, and found there is already a tool doing that content manager thingy. I think you should talk with boucman
20110331 13:44:51< timotei> cemycc: lemme find the logs
20110331 13:45:36< timotei> loonycyborg: it seems the binaries generated by visual studio no more have the stderr.txt thingy, or when saying: wesnoth --help even no text in console appears. do you have the same problem with the windows binary generated by scons?
20110331 13:47:09< cemycc> timotei: Yes, i am aware about that tool. Ok then i will talk with boucman about this. Thanx for the infos.
20110331 13:47:48< loonycyborg> timotei: It seems to work as usual, at least with cross-compiled binary under wine.
20110331 13:48:29< timotei> cemycc: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2011/03/%23wesnoth-dev.2011-03-30.log -> starting with 22.51:49
20110331 13:49:18< timotei> loonycyborg: and I'm wondering how does it link the game to the boost libs? Do you have them compiled for windows? or it doesn't matter
20110331 13:49:32< timotei> loonycyborg: I'm trying to move onto cmake+make in cygwin and was wondering about that
20110331 13:49:50< loonycyborg> stderr.txt generation comes from a SDL-overriden main() function.
20110331 13:50:36< timotei> loonycyborg: hmm, it seems now it creates the files stderr/stdout, but it doesn't write anything in that :-S
20110331 13:50:55< timotei> and when the binary process exists, the files get deleted
20110331 13:51:16< timotei> loonycyborg: could that be so much dues to the fact that I use VS?
20110331 13:51:21< timotei> s/dues/due
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20110331 13:51:43< loonycyborg> Probably. Most likely SDL issue though.
20110331 13:53:10< loonycyborg> When you build against boost you need to compile it with the same compiler as the program, due to C++ ABIs being incompatible.
20110331 13:53:31< loonycyborg> So msvc compiled boost won't work with mingw.
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20110331 13:53:54< timotei> ha.
20110331 13:54:10< timotei> so, I'm using sdl 1.2.14, but wesnoth 1.9.4 uses 1.2.13 :))
20110331 13:54:49< timotei> wow, not to talk that the 1.2.14 dll's are *much* smaller than 1.2.13's
20110331 13:55:32< timotei> well...
20110331 13:56:08< timotei> based on: http://www.libsdl.org/release/changes-1.2.html
20110331 13:56:11< timotei> The SDL_STDIO_REDIRECT environment variable can be used to override whether SDL redirects stdio to stdout.txt and stderr.txt. 
20110331 13:56:12< timotei> so, that is
20110331 13:56:21< timotei> let's see if it works
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20110331 14:06:33< cemycc> is it ok to use C++/Qt for the GSoC project: Simple Content Manager ?  I am asking this because I have seen proposals only for java and python. 
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20110331 14:12:25< zaroth_work> cemycc: look at my proposal page, I think PyQt is out of the question
20110331 14:12:30-!- hadleyt_ [~Tom@res061-110.residents.stolaf.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 14:12:51< zaroth_work> cemycc: C++/Qt is the way to go and boucman doesn't mind it ;-)
20110331 14:13:52< zaroth_work> cemycc: however, since nobody likes reinventing the wheel, I suggest to find some arguments why upgrading Qct is enough work for GSoC or why you shouldn't use its codebase and try to do better than it
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20110331 14:14:39< timotei> loonycyborg: could you send me the gcc built boost libs used by wesnoth? or they are those installed by your linux distro?
20110331 14:14:58< zaroth_work> zookeeper: could you have a look at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements#Remove_statues.27_turns_from_replays_by_introducing_a_skip_replay_attribute and give me your approval/disapproval for this new WML attribute?
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20110331 14:17:04< loonycyborg> timotei: You'd better build them yourself, since I had trouble even when mixing gcc versions.
20110331 14:17:11< timotei> ok
20110331 14:19:15< cemycc> zaroth_work:  I think that QCT is just a simplified subversion client. Thanx for the info.
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20110331 14:27:51< timotei> loonycyborg: it seems wesnoth doesn't use anymore zlib, right?
20110331 14:28:08-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 14:28:21< loonycyborg> afaik only through boost.iostreams
20110331 14:28:33< timotei> loonycyborg: I
20110331 14:29:23< timotei> loonycyborg: I searched for "zlib" in all .cpp|.hpp, but didn't found anything.
20110331 14:29:27< timotei> it seems we moved to gzip
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20110331 15:08:26< Nephro> wesbot, seen Crab_
20110331 15:08:27< wesbot> Nephro: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 13h 6m ago.  12h 35m ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
20110331 15:11:11< Nephro> Crab_ ping me, please, if you connect
20110331 15:12:05< Ivanovic> Nephro: leaving a message for him might make sense
20110331 15:12:12< Ivanovic> then he directly knows what to talk to you about
20110331 15:12:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20110331 15:13:09< Nephro> Well, this is more of a question, I am afraid if he answers it when I am not here, I might miss it, and will have to ask again 
20110331 15:14:06< Nephro> And I thnk he knows very well what I am going to ask him :D Since he knows in detail what I am working on 
20110331 15:14:37< Ivanovic> Nephro: then you can simply check the logs
20110331 15:14:41< Ivanovic> cf topic
20110331 15:14:54< Ivanovic> when coming back, just grep for your nickname in the logs to find replies
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20110331 15:26:40< automagic> Hi
20110331 15:28:04< automagic> I have just read the eval-based AI idea on the not-so-easy-coding page. The problem I see there is that the evaluation of a possible move depends on what moves other units make. So the evaluations for each unit arent independent.
20110331 15:28:42< automagic> Is anyone here?
20110331 15:29:25< zookeeper> this is usually a bit of a quiet time of the day, i think.
20110331 15:29:26< timotei> automagic: everybody :P
20110331 15:30:48< zookeeper> zaroth, yeah, sounds ok to me.
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20110331 15:34:11< automagic> Im looking at the easy-coding page now (I guess it's a better idea to start from the easier stuff). Is the problems' list up to date?
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20110331 15:35:35< zookeeper> automagic, more or less, it seems, but it's still a good idea to ask first
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20110331 15:41:50< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: so, Alarantalara made a package, and I checked it, but now I'm having trouble uploading it because SF isn't resetting my password - and I have to go; so if you could upload it... it's here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-IrcQ6zAXcYODY5ODZjMDktNjhlOS00OTBiLWI2MGYtZmEwMjZjZGVhMWQy&hl=en&authkey=CLqrmdUM
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20110331 16:03:25< Espreon> zookeeper; friends: Since the Skeletal Rider is used in at least two campaigns, I wish to move it and the Bone Knight to core. Any objections?
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20110331 16:06:40< Espreon> AI0867: Just in the unit descriptions in the help section, under "Resistances".
20110331 16:07:09-!- Qbunia [540aafbf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.10.175.191] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 16:07:27< Qbunia> hi
20110331 16:07:31< Espreon> Hello.
20110331 16:07:43< Qbunia> VERY IMPORTANT Update the wiki page about your idea (Make a copy of the student proposal page template: 
20110331 16:07:57< Qbunia> so i have acc on wesnoth forum i bet that its connected to gsoc 
20110331 16:07:57< Nephro> we know :)
20110331 16:08:00< Qbunia> so how i can update it ?
20110331 16:08:12< Qbunia> do i have to create acc on gnu ?
20110331 16:08:51< Espreon> Well, if you eventually want SVN access, you'll need a Gna account.
20110331 16:08:53< Nephro> Qbunia, you need acc on GNA to post patches and (if you get commit access) to commit your changes
20110331 16:09:12< Qbunia> mm >.<
20110331 16:09:23< Qbunia> so what for is forum acc?
20110331 16:09:33< Nephro> For using the forum
20110331 16:09:42< Espreon> Yeah, to interact with the community.
20110331 16:09:55< Qbunia> ... irc is enough i think ;>
20110331 16:10:09< Espreon> More people use the fora.
20110331 16:10:34< Qbunia> ok so i will look ;) 
20110331 16:10:40< Espreon> ... and the information... lingers...
20110331 16:10:57< Nephro> well I don't use the forum
20110331 16:11:05< Nephro> moslty work on the task Crab_ gave me
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20110331 16:16:15< Qbunia> okey got acc 
20110331 16:16:22< zookeeper> Espreon, who's gonna do the animations?
20110331 16:16:27< Qbunia> so how to connect gna accout with wesnoth wiki ?
20110331 16:18:44< zookeeper> Espreon, i don't like putting boring units with no mainline-quality art in core :|
20110331 16:21:31< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: will take me about an hour to upload
20110331 16:21:45< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: got an md5 for me to check if the file i got is actually correct?
20110331 16:22:09< Ivanovic> Qbunia: you don't "connect" them at all
20110331 16:22:22< Ivanovic> Qbunia: you just leave your account names in the list of account names that you provide
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20110331 16:37:32< Qbunia> on what list of account names 
20110331 16:37:56< Qbunia> and where i input asnwers for that questionariee?
20110331 16:39:23< Ivanovic> you write down the question and the answer below, simple
20110331 16:40:03< Qbunia> Ivanovic: yes i know but where to write it on gna account on forum or ?:|
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20110331 17:13:14< champ__> hello admins, I need to be marked as GSoC Student account to create my proposal page about 'LuaAI Improvement', my forum id:champ ,my wesnoth-wiki id:champ , and as well as gna account id
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20110331 17:14:07< Ivanovic> champ__: you can create everything without being marked
20110331 17:14:12< Ivanovic> the marker is just some addition
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20110331 17:16:14< champ__> Ivanovic: but I did not find a link on wiki.wesnoth.org to create a new page or copy this page 'http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2011_Template_of_Student_page'
20110331 17:16:36< champ__> Ivanovic: Did I miss-noticed something?
20110331 17:16:43< Ivanovic> champ__: just enter the url and you *are* at a new page that you can edit
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20110331 17:17:18< Ivanovic> eg go here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2011_champ
20110331 17:17:28< Ivanovic> edit this page, and there it is
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20110331 17:18:35< champ__> Ivanovic: thanks a lot, that helps.
20110331 17:18:40< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: okay, the OSX binary should now be online at sf.net
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20110331 17:18:44< Ivanovic> champ__: you're welcome
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20110331 17:20:03< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: please check that 937e08218530ff19b9093ee514577bd7 is the correct md5sum
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20110331 17:37:06< Espreon> zookeeper: No, the Skeletal Rider has halfway decent art now.
20110331 17:37:18< Espreon> I think it has attack animations too.
20110331 17:44:09< Espreon> Well, L's.
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20110331 17:50:51< Espreon> zookeeper: ... or is that not good enough for you?
20110331 17:56:31< zookeeper> rider maybe, but the knight no
20110331 17:57:46< Espreon> OK, the knight doesn't really need to be in core.
20110331 17:57:51< Espreon> ... right now.
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20110331 18:03:26< zookeeper> Espreon, and it's kinda pointless to only add the rider
20110331 18:05:46< Espreon> String and image duplication... is not fun. I'll find a way to deal with this...
20110331 18:05:52< Espreon> ... later...
20110331 18:07:41< Crab_> automagic: it's better to check http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_LuaAI_2011#Possible_pre-gsoc_tasks for ai-related easy tasks
20110331 18:08:28< automagic> Crab_: Thanks. I'll check them.
20110331 18:08:50< Crab_> ask, if you have any questions
20110331 18:09:22< AI0867> Espreon: could you poke me again in 6 hours?
20110331 18:09:30< AI0867> 2200 UTC
20110331 18:10:46< Espreon> AI0867: Sure.
20110331 18:12:04< AI0867> I *may* be home by then
20110331 18:12:12< Espreon> OK.
20110331 18:12:17< AI0867> I'm not going to start up wesnoth here
20110331 18:15:51< hadleyt_> I have a question about the gsoc sprite sheet project idea regarding project proposals. Is there anyone here who can help me?
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20110331 18:44:16< Disruption> Hi devs! :)
20110331 18:44:32< Disruption> wesbot: seen boucman
20110331 18:44:33< wesbot> Disruption: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 18h 40m ago.  18h 40m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20110331 18:59:17< Disruption> how silent is the room today :)
20110331 19:00:03< Disruption> nagbot: Disruption
20110331 19:00:31< Disruption> seems nagbot doesn't detect my submision ._.
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20110331 19:04:17< Crab_> hi, Disruption
20110331 19:04:34< Crab_> nagbot: Disruption ?
20110331 19:04:35< nagbot> "disruption" : http://wiki.wesnoth.org//Disruption_Simple_Content_Manager : not submitted to google
20110331 19:04:40< Crab_> the "?" is important
20110331 19:04:52< Disruption> oh, I didn't notice that
20110331 19:04:58< Disruption> thanks :)
20110331 19:05:09< Disruption> good, it detects the wiki page :D
20110331 19:06:08< mreid> Hi, I'm doing a research paper for Northeastern Univeristy in my Senior Capstone class on open source software with a focus on usability, if anyone familiar with Wesnoth's development processes would be kind enough to take my 15 question survey, I would really appreciate it - http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/496558/Usability-and-Open-Source
20110331 19:07:22< Upthorn> nagbot: Upthorn ?
20110331 19:08:20< hadleyt_> nagbot: hadleyt ?
20110331 19:09:02< Upthorn> nagbot: Jody ?
20110331 19:09:18< Crab_> Upthorn: heh, it is supposed to work with "Upthorn", but I think it's being lazy
20110331 19:09:25< Upthorn> Nagbot just hates me I guess
20110331 19:10:18< Crab_> nagbot: come on, be friendly :)
20110331 19:10:20< Crab_> nagbot: upthorn ?
20110331 19:10:21< nagbot> upthorn : http://wiki.wesnoth.org//SummerOfCodeProposal_2011_LuaAI_JodyNorthup : not submitted to google
20110331 19:10:26< Upthorn> Crab_: I put my Lua AI proposal up yesterday, did you see it?
20110331 19:10:30< Upthorn> well
20110331 19:10:33< Upthorn> now you did
20110331 19:10:38< Crab_> Upthorn: no, not yet
20110331 19:11:23< Crab_> Upthorn: nagbot was not parsing your info correctly because I was too lazy with the regexp and the 'not yet submitted' string in the SoC Application section was not in 'good enough' format for it
20110331 19:11:44< Crab_> I've removed the 'SoC application' section from your page and now it finds the page correctly.
20110331 19:11:46< Upthorn> ah
20110331 19:13:23< Disruption> by the way, do I have to change anything so it detects I submitted the info to google?
20110331 19:13:34-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20110331 19:13:51< Crab_> a new =SoC application= section has to contain a link to your page
20110331 19:14:03< Crab_> even if you don't do it, I'll do it for all the pages
20110331 19:14:34< Disruption> oh ok
20110331 19:17:29< hadleyt_> Crab_: can you check mine?
20110331 19:18:56< Crab_> hadleyt_: link to your wiki page, please (you haven't included the Irc info in your wiki page)
20110331 19:19:46< Crab_> Upthorn: basically, I think it would be a good idea if you write a sort of analysys/implementation plan for the 'let additional lua code be loaded from WML modules' part of your proposal
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20110331 19:22:05< Disruption> nagbot: Disruption ?
20110331 19:22:06< nagbot> "disruption" : http://wiki.wesnoth.org//Disruption_Simple_Content_Manager : not submitted to google
20110331 19:22:09< Disruption> ._.
20110331 19:22:50< Disruption> I added the =Soc application= section with the link. Seems nagbot don't like it 
20110331 19:22:53< crimson_penguin> Ivanovic: that's the correct md5
20110331 19:22:58< Upthorn> Crab_: yes, I intend to write one, but I thought it would be good to talk to you first so I can understand the task better
20110331 19:23:05< Disruption> or i quoted him too soon, who knows
20110331 19:23:39< fendrin> mreid: please add an "irc" option to your communication question.
20110331 19:24:01< Upthorn> I do not understand, for instance, how Lua AI is used currently
20110331 19:24:16< Crab_> Disruption: no, it's just the regexp is slightly broken.
20110331 19:24:19< Crab_> nagbot: Disruption ?
20110331 19:24:20< nagbot> "disruption" : http://wiki.wesnoth.org//Disruption_Simple_Content_Manager : http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2011/disruption/1
20110331 19:24:45< Crab_> Upthorn: note that the AI has the concept of 'engine'
20110331 19:24:54< Crab_> each config block is parsed by a corresponding engine
20110331 19:24:58< hadleyt_> Crab_: is it fixed? I'm just supposed to have my nick in that section, right?
20110331 19:25:00< Crab_> there's a C++ engine, and a 'lua' engine
20110331 19:25:01< mreid> fendrin: I would consider that a form of instant messaging, but if I were to do it again, I probably should've had IRC in there on its own
20110331 19:25:19< Disruption> seems like he found it now. did you change something on my page or it just got it right now?
20110331 19:25:44< Crab_> hadleyt_: just give me the link to your wiki page...
20110331 19:25:51< Crab_> hadleyt_: and I'll handle the rest
20110331 19:26:19< hadleyt_> Crab_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Sprite_Sheets2011_hadleyt
20110331 19:26:54< hadleyt_> Crab_: Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. Sorry if it's an inconvenience for you.
20110331 19:27:35< Crab_> nagbot: hadleyt ?
20110331 19:27:36< nagbot> hadleyt : http://wiki.wesnoth.org//SoC_Ideas_Sprite_Sheets2011_hadleyt : not submitted to google
20110331 19:27:57< Crab_> hadleyt_: you'e just removed/forgot to add a proper page category when copying the template. all's fixed.
20110331 19:28:21< Crab_> Upthorn: so, each ai block is parsed by corresponding engine
20110331 19:28:30< Crab_> and, lua engine can parse candidate actions
20110331 19:28:34< Crab_> and stages
20110331 19:28:39< Crab_> and link them to lua callback functions
20110331 19:28:43< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin: great, then i can work on the announcement now
20110331 19:29:03< Crab_> which, when called, will be given the 'state' of the ai as parameter
20110331 19:29:09< Crab_> thus, they are, actually, closures
20110331 19:29:55< Crab_> Upthorn: check data/ai/lua/scenario-lua-ai.cfg
20110331 19:30:03-!- dariuss [~darius@188.74.92.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110331 19:30:11< Crab_> and src/ai/composite/engine_lua.cpp
20110331 19:30:48< Upthorn> Crab_: ok.
20110331 19:30:55< Upthorn> I'll look through those
20110331 19:33:18< Crab_> ok
20110331 19:35:29< Crab_> Upthorn: if you'll have more specific questions, just ask
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20110331 19:47:25< mordante> servus
20110331 19:47:46< mordante> zaroth, you were looking for me?
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20110331 19:49:22< thespaceinvader> wesbot seen automagic
20110331 19:49:22< wesbot> thespaceinvader: The person with the nick automagic last spoke 1h 40m ago.  53s ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
20110331 19:49:29< Upthorn> Crab_: so, if I'm understanding this correctly, the lua AI has to define a series of functions with specific names, which then get called from the Lua AI engine?
20110331 19:50:07< Crab_> the lua AI engine creates c++ wrappers for lua callbacks
20110331 19:50:15< Crab_> the main turn sequence is in C++
20110331 19:50:26< Crab_> so, when the objects created by lua ai engine are activated, lua code is executed
20110331 19:50:39< Crab_> and that lua code needs access to all the interesting C++ stuff
20110331 19:50:59< Crab_> hence, when we 'activate' and run that lua code, we pass a 'ai context' to it in a form of a table of functions
20110331 19:51:23< Crab_> we put functions for moves/attacks/etc there, and the user can add to those, as well
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20110331 19:55:01< mordante> zaroth, which build system do you use? cmake or scons?
20110331 19:55:13< Upthorn> oh, I should have looked at the rest of the [AI] tag after the code=
20110331 19:55:42< mordante> zaroth, guess I missed your main question? What is/was it?
20110331 19:57:07< mordante> Ivanovic, visual studio's debugger is nice, to bad I haven't found a way how to feed it `coredump'
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20110331 19:57:18< mordante> coredumps*
20110331 20:00:10< mordante> zaroth, the row/column naming comes from grid indexing a row and a column identifies a field/cell
20110331 20:00:30< mordante> zaroth, and to me row/column feels more natural than row/cell
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20110331 20:12:20< mordante> zaroth, thanks for spotting the typo, feel free to supply a patch if you find more
20110331 20:12:31< mordante> (and I'm quite sure you can ;-))
20110331 20:13:54< mordante> zaroth, do you want to supply a patch for all typos or should I fix algorihm?
20110331 20:16:38< mordante> zaroth, regarding full stops, feel free to supply a patch for it (and yes I tend to love long sentences)
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20110331 20:17:34< mordante> and (parenthesis for that matter (and of course I programmed in LISP ;-)))
20110331 20:17:36-!- dariuss_ is now known as dariuss
20110331 20:20:12< mordante> zaroth, for me it's easy to understand my document, I know the code ;-) 
20110331 20:21:12< mordante> zaroth, so I really welcome patches and questions regarding readability, I didn't write the document for me but for you (and all others who want to delve into that area)
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20110331 20:21:40< mordante> hi Nephro 
20110331 20:22:27< mordante> Ivanovic, is your friend aware of the trick to for gdb to break by adding »asm("int3");« into the source
20110331 20:22:31< mordante> Nephro, ^
20110331 20:22:57< Ivanovic> mordante: not sure if she even has full access to the sources
20110331 20:23:20 * mordante had just some awful debugging experiences with gdb as well
20110331 20:24:03< mordante> ah no source code makes it worse
20110331 20:27:03< mordante> Crab_, MSVC can break on exceptions, also not entirely sure where it is in the menu, but it is there
20110331 20:27:56< Crab_> mordante: will take a look...
20110331 20:27:58< Crab_> thanks
20110331 20:28:12< mordante> you're welcome
20110331 20:28:29< mordante> I probably can check tomorrow as well, at work I have access to MSVC
20110331 20:29:49< Nephro> mordante, sorry? didn't get you... I don't use gdb, I have msvc9
20110331 20:31:03< mordante> Nephro, then use __debugbreak()
20110331 20:31:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20110331 20:32:19< mordante> maybe adding the int3 in assembly also works, but don't know the exact syntax but it uses __asm instead of asm
20110331 20:32:46< Nephro> Crab_, evening! I've almost done them Lua aspects, but today I encountered somewhat of a problem. The user can input value=0.9 as a lua aspect or he can do value="if....."... The first case isn't even Lua code, it's just a simple aspect created using lua, that I think, already is done. But the second case must be compiled and run. What would be a good way to separate between the two? I have an idea, but I don't think it is good.
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20110331 20:33:20< Nephro> mordante, well, there is no need now, I seem to have solved the problem with the debugger(it just started working after my 21st attempt)
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20110331 20:34:11< mordante> Nephro, ok, but remembering __debugbreak(); might be nice for the next time ;-)
20110331 20:34:37< Crab_> Nephro:  what's your idea ?
20110331 20:34:43 * mordante loves sprinkling int3 in constructors, where gdb is easily confused
20110331 20:36:31< Nephro> Crab_, well, we can make the users distinct value=<double> and code=<string>, this way we can easily separate whether we have runnable code or just a value.
20110331 20:36:35< Crab_> [aspect]id=aggression  engine=lua    value="0.9"[/aspect]                     [aspect]id=aggression  engine=lua  code="return 0.9"[/aspect]
20110331 20:36:44< Crab_> yes, that the first idea I had, too.
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20110331 20:37:10< Nephro> :)
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20110331 20:38:09< Crab_> I presume that value="0.2+0.5" is allowed, then, too
20110331 20:38:40< Crab_> basically, value="FOO"  is the same as  code="return (FOO)"
20110331 20:38:45< Nephro> yeap
20110331 20:39:18< mordante> zaroth, not entirely sure what your link problems in the PDF are please give ping me so we can discuss it further
20110331 20:39:47< zaroth> mordante: ping
20110331 20:39:54< zaroth> thanks for your detailed reply, reading it now :-)
20110331 20:40:08< mordante> ok, still catching up with the logs
20110331 20:40:30< Nephro> we can do value_lua_ == cfg["code"] ? cfg["code"]  :"return " + cfg["value"] ... 
20110331 20:44:44< Crab_> nagbot: i think yes, but  (1) =, not == (2) I'd use brackets () after return, just in case;
20110331 20:44:52< Crab_> Nephro: ^ oops )
20110331 20:45:42< Crab_> and I don't remember exactly, but afair the code to check for the existence of attribute is slightly different
20110331 20:45:58< Crab_> there's has_attribute(), or something like that. and there'a way to do it with only 1 lookup
20110331 20:46:11< Nephro> Crab_, = sure, just a typo :D about the check, I know, it's just some pseudocode to show the idea
20110331 20:46:47< Nephro> and I know about the 1 lookup, hehe :)
20110331 20:47:47< Nephro>  I also wanted to ask, in which file would it be appropriate to do the running of Lua code. We can create a enironment right in the aspect.cpp or we can do that in the value_translator file
20110331 20:48:46< Crab_> I think that you should wrap lua code in c++ objects
20110331 20:48:52< Crab_> and only keep lua code in src/ai/lua and src/scripting
20110331 20:49:00< Crab_> and use the wrappers in aspect.hpp
20110331 20:49:09< Crab_> and in value_translator, if needed
20110331 20:50:30< Nephro> hm... Ok, good idea :) Now that I solved the exisiting problems, I really hope to complete that tomorrow.
20110331 20:50:53< Crab_> great
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20110331 20:55:25< zaroth> Crab_: fendrin: did you find time to have a look at my improved project proposal?
20110331 20:56:04< fendrin> zaroth: No, I am busy this weekend.
20110331 20:56:07< fendrin> zaroth: sorry
20110331 20:56:21< zaroth> (I know you probably both are very busy now because of all the students, but I still have hope ;-) )
20110331 20:56:39< fendrin> zaroth: No, busy with reallife.
20110331 20:56:58< Disruption> lol
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20110331 20:58:29< zaroth> fendrin: you don't have to apologize, everyone has to spend some time caring about this little annoying pet called "reallife" sometimes
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20110331 20:59:06< Crab_> zaroth: yes, checked it out.
20110331 20:59:36< Crab_> zaroth: overall, it looks good, and I don't doubt that you will be able to complete the gui2-related stuff correctly (i.e. various small dialogs, etc)
20110331 20:59:45< fendrin> zaroth: :-)
20110331 20:59:52< zaroth> Crab_: great! how do you feel about the amount of work involved?
20110331 21:00:00< zaroth> is it too much/too little for the summer?
20110331 21:00:25< zaroth> (this question also concerns set priorities)
20110331 21:00:51< Crab_> zaroth: but, there's some more c++ - heavy stuff included in your proposal, which is related to 'the goal is to make SP a special case of MP' stuff
20110331 21:01:07< Crab_> zaroth: is there a way you can demonstrate that you'll be able to handle such a task ?
20110331 21:01:53< Crab_> I can suggest a somewhat difficult pregsoc task for you, if you want
20110331 21:02:09< Crab_> it should be doable in a few hours, but it will require some heavy thinking and hacking around
20110331 21:02:39< zaroth> Crab_: I can't yet tell much about it, because I didn't look into this parts of code too much... I'm working on the basic functionality control dialog now and would actually like to finish something instead of starting many things at once
20110331 21:03:07< zaroth> Crab_: but since I read somewhere here that the final evaluation doesn't happen at the 9th of April, but two weeks later
20110331 21:03:30< zaroth> I think I'll be able to do both before then
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20110331 21:04:08< zaroth> (even when considering that "a few hours" will triple probably on the way)
20110331 21:04:20< Crab_> yes, I think it's so. but I want to make sure you can handle difficult c++ stuff
20110331 21:04:34< Crab_> so, I'd want the 'more difficult' task to be made earlier.
20110331 21:04:50< Crab_> what do you think ?
20110331 21:05:51< zaroth> Crab_: I want to have a look at it then
20110331 21:06:01-!- Nephro [~Dmitry@80.233.231.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110331 21:06:14< Crab_> ok. have you studied the trick which is used to condionally load SP campaigns ?
20110331 21:06:27< Crab_> s/condionally/conditionally
20110331 21:06:44< zaroth> it's not like I can't return to the previous tasks if I feel the codebase is still too intimidating for me for some training
20110331 21:07:07< Crab_> yes, you can
20110331 21:07:10< zaroth> if you mean by that that there are 3 versions of the same scenario generated on the fly, then yes
20110331 21:07:14< Crab_> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/_main.cfg?revision=46384&view=markup
20110331 21:07:16< Crab_> ^ example
20110331 21:07:17< mordante> Ivanovic, I (luckily) don't know much about the terrain-graphics WML, I prefer to keep my sanity ;-)
20110331 21:07:35< Crab_> zaroth: do you understand what's going on there ?
20110331 21:07:55< Crab_> zaroth: we preprocess this without the campaign-specific define, and load the campaign meta-info section
20110331 21:08:02< Crab_> then, we get the name of campaign specific define
20110331 21:08:10< Crab_> then, we present the list of campaigns to user
20110331 21:08:22< Crab_> we also get the list of options such as difficulty levels
20110331 21:08:23< Ivanovic> mordante: ah, but you know *a little* about it
20110331 21:08:24< Ivanovic> ;)
20110331 21:08:30< Crab_> then, the user selects the campaign and difficulty
20110331 21:08:42< Crab_> we add those defines to the preprocessor settings, and reprocess the file
20110331 21:08:52< mordante> Ivanovic, yes, enough to make sure I want to stay away from it ;-)
20110331 21:09:04< Crab_> now, everything inside #ifdef CAMPAIGN_HEIR_TO_THE_THRONE ... #endif will be processed, as well
20110331 21:09:06< Ivanovic> ah, this i know without ever really looking at it
20110331 21:09:07< Ivanovic> ;)
20110331 21:09:12< Crab_> and the campaign will be loaded, at correct difficulty level
20110331 21:09:38< Crab_> zaroth: is that part clear ?
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20110331 21:10:34< zaroth> Crab_: please wait a second, I'm loading the campaign into text editor for quick revision now
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20110331 21:10:49< mordante> Ivanovic, yeah, but I wandered around naïve and carelessly and ended in that area, then ran away screaming 
20110331 21:11:03< Ivanovic> ahhh
20110331 21:11:16< Ivanovic> being naive and careless can get you killed with the wesnoth sources
20110331 21:11:17< Ivanovic> ;)
20110331 21:11:47< mordante> yes lesson learned and no limbs lost in the process
20110331 21:16:26< zaroth> Crab_: the part about the fact that no campaign specific define didn't look weird to me, because I didn't make a campaign before
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20110331 21:16:46< zaroth> the loading of scenarios three times after defining difficulty did, so I noticed it
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20110331 21:17:05< zaroth> but I compared it with a non-MP campaign (Liberty) and I see the difference now
20110331 21:17:16< zaroth> so everything's clear so far
20110331 21:18:09< zaroth> ("it" two lines above means "the way of adding headers in a campagin")
20110331 21:18:20< Crab_> zaroth: ok. so, the task is to hack/modify the MP creation screen (where you select the map to play) to use the same system
20110331 21:18:29< Crab_> zaroth: feel free to delete all MP maps except 1
20110331 21:18:43< Crab_> zaroth: then, modify that 1 map to use the same #ifdef   thing
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20110331 21:19:11< Crab_> so, when you parse it without a scenario-specific define, you'd only parse the info you need for the map selection screen
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20110331 21:19:54< Crab_> it's ok if some parts of functionality are lost in the process, or if you need to add a meta-info section like [scenario_meta_info] to store the extra stuff you need like the number of sides and the available difficulty levels, etc
20110331 21:20:31< Crab_> then, make sure that after the map is selected, the user is asked to select a difficulty  level (or add a dropdown for that)
20110331 21:20:53< Crab_> then, reparse the scenarios with the new define, getting the actual scenario data for the difficulty level selected
20110331 21:20:56< Crab_> that's all
20110331 21:21:09< Crab_> feel free to do it non-cleanly, it's only a proof-of-concept
20110331 21:21:24< Crab_> I need to see if you'll be able to hack your way through the code to get the result you want to happen
20110331 21:21:31< Crab_> ask questions, if necessary
20110331 21:21:33< Crab_> that's all )
20110331 21:22:51< zaroth> Crab_: if I understood correctly, main goal is to avoid preloading everything?
20110331 21:23:11< Crab_> yes
20110331 21:23:21< Crab_> only load everything once you know the difficulty level
20110331 21:23:38< Crab_> by the way, by doing that task, you'd add support for difficulty levels for MP )
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20110331 21:24:53< zaroth> Crab_: only to later remove and redo it, since it's gonna be hackish ;-)
20110331 21:25:31< zaroth> by the way, does anyone use Gentoo here?
20110331 21:25:48 * deekay points at grzywacz 
20110331 21:26:02< Crab_> zaroth: yes, just like that
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20110331 21:30:15< Sytyi> mordante: hi. I misunerstand two things. Are the tags like [line] and [circle] in parent tag [canvas] or they can be anywhere? (I did not find tag canvas in schema-gui)
20110331 21:31:04< Sytyi> mordante: and what means variables? is this a special type of WML key or just an engine environment stuff?
20110331 21:33:36< zaroth> grzywacz: maybe you happen to use git-svn on gentoo? it turned out that there're some conflicts (with kwallet, to be precise) which have no easy solution for me 
20110331 21:33:39-!- mreid [~mreid@c-76-19-198-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110331 21:34:04< zaroth> and it's quite confusing that git-svn conflicts with kwallet... but maybe you somehow solved it?
20110331 21:34:32< zaroth> folks at #gentoo weren't too helpful and my mails at maintainers of these ebuilds got no reply yet...
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20110331 21:36:11< mordante> Sytyi, the canvas is used in [draw] tags
20110331 21:36:48< Sytyi> mordante: it is not a tag but a family of tags 
20110331 21:37:16< mordante> the variables are formula language variables
20110331 21:37:57< mordante> you can ignore them, the formulas need some basic detection later on (but that's not important for now)
20110331 21:38:09< mordante> I will elaborate on it further later on
20110331 21:38:19-!- MeccaGod [~majs@h14n4fls31o279.telia.com] has quit []
20110331 21:38:49< mordante> the draw is indeed used at several places
20110331 21:39:50< Sytyi> mordante: good. cause it a bit stopped me. How long will you be here today? I have done the writing work, now i will type it. 
20110331 21:41:00< Disruption> wesbot: seen boucman
20110331 21:41:01< wesbot> Disruption: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 21h 36m ago.  21h 36m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20110331 21:42:01< mordante> Sytyi, not too long
20110331 21:42:23< Sytyi> ok
20110331 21:45:20< timotei> mordante: how that you used visual studio? :)
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20110331 21:46:41< mordante> timotei, at work my software has to run under Linux and Windows
20110331 21:47:07< grzywacz> zaroth, nope, I have no conflicts on gentoo
20110331 21:47:12< mordante> so thought MSVC would do the windows part, but alas it failed to compile my code, now use mingw-cross-env
20110331 21:48:04< zaroth> grzywacz: darn, I hoped you solved it somehow
20110331 21:48:06< timotei> mordante: :D
20110331 21:48:24< timotei> mordante: well, the debugger is VERY good at .NET but it's not so good/nice at C++ unfortunately :(
20110331 21:48:41< zaroth> well, I'll have to just get rid of the kwallet probably, I'd rather have git-svn if I have to choose ;-)
20110331 21:49:31< mordante> timotei, very good is a bit too much ;-) the same can be said about gdb on Windows
20110331 21:49:48< timotei> mordante: never used gdb :)
20110331 21:50:07< mordante> it's nice
20110331 21:50:13< mordante> zaroth, just curious, but in your education do you learn a lot about programming?
20110331 21:50:57< zaroth> mordante: nope, most of what I've learnt I learned myself before and during the university parallel to normal classes
20110331 21:51:10< timotei> mordante: does gdb work with .NET too?:P
20110331 21:51:10< mordante> ok cool
20110331 21:51:23< mordante> timotei, no idea, never use .NET
20110331 21:51:25< zaroth> we had some programming classes, but they were mostly lame
20110331 21:51:50< timotei> mordante: well, that's why I said the debugger on .NET (only on .NET) is very good, since it was made for it :)
20110331 21:52:23< mordante> zaroth, ok sounds familiar ;-)
20110331 21:53:12< zaroth> mordante: this must be some kind of a virus circulating among universities
20110331 21:53:34< grzywacz> zaroth, which arch are you running?
20110331 21:53:44< zaroth> grzywacz: x86
20110331 21:54:01< mordante> timotei, the MSVC  C++ debugging part is not that great
20110331 21:54:11< mordante> zaroth, unfortunately it seems so
20110331 21:54:14< timotei> mordante: true :)
20110331 21:54:16< zaroth> grzywacz: do you want to read about details of my problem?
20110331 21:55:48< zaroth> grzywacz: in case you do: http://paste.kde.org/8646/
20110331 21:55:50< mordante> zaroth, is globulation still alive, the homepage seems quite dead?
20110331 21:56:38< zaroth> mordante: yeah, when I moved in to Munich (for Erasmus exchange, it's awesome), I met the main developer of it
20110331 21:56:42-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 21:56:45< zaroth> at least as for now
20110331 21:56:49< zaroth> Giszmo
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20110331 21:57:31< mordante> ok cool, does he live in München?
20110331 21:57:49< grzywacz> zaroth, well, USE="-nsl subversion" emerge -av git ?
20110331 21:57:50< zaroth> unfortunately, he's quite busy with his "real" work, but was eager to help with codebase knowledge if someone wanted to contribute 
20110331 21:58:13< mordante> the first time we were at the were at the Fosdem, they were also there to give a presentation
20110331 21:58:34< zaroth> grzywacz: if it were so simple... I tried exporting USE to env flags, no satisfactory result :(
20110331 21:58:57< zaroth> mordante: well, with just one semi-active developer you could call the project dead
20110331 21:59:10< grzywacz> zaroth, let me sync to see what I'm getting nowdays...
20110331 21:59:22< mordante> too bad, the game was different and nice to plau
20110331 21:59:24< mordante> play*
20110331 21:59:59< zaroth> but I prefer the term "hibernated", especially since I would like to contribute to it one day as well :-)
20110331 22:00:08< mordante> :-)
20110331 22:00:29< zaroth> wesnoth just seemed easier for the beginning because they're so many helpful developers around
20110331 22:00:34< zaroth> s/they/there/
20110331 22:00:39< mordante> :-)
20110331 22:01:28< zaroth> mordante: and yes, he lives at München, as do I currently (studying here is awesome!)
20110331 22:01:47-!- tschmitz [18827665@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.130.118.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110331 22:02:09< mordante> I've never visited München, but I like Germany in general
20110331 22:03:04-!- tschmitz [18827665@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.130.118.101] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 22:03:18< zaroth> well, I've got an amazing story just from few days ago about German's honesty in München
20110331 22:03:56< zaroth> I was out for this weekend and I thought I lost my keys as I was on my way out on monday
20110331 22:04:08-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110331 22:04:11-!- negusnyul__ [~negusnyul@dsl5402A151.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110331 22:05:10< zaroth> already mentally prepared for begging the hausmeister for remaking the key (it's quite expensive, since it's some kind of a security key and can't be copied at normal locksmith's)
20110331 22:06:06-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 22:06:19< zaroth> after I came back on Monday evening, I discovered my keys... sticking out of the bicycle's lock, which (the bicycle) was strapped right next to a metro station entrance, where hundreds of people could see it during this four days
20110331 22:06:41< zaroth> both the keys, bicycle and lock were all still there... I was completely like :O
20110331 22:06:47< zaroth> and then like :D
20110331 22:07:04< mordante> :-)
20110331 22:07:21< zookeeper> well that sure sounds pretty rare
20110331 22:07:29< zaroth> (but I guess it's enough for this channel, if you want to discuss Germany more, let's go to #wesnoth-offtopic ;-) )
20110331 22:07:48< mordante> nah we have #wesnoth-de ;-)
20110331 22:08:36< mordante> btw zaroth are you also interested in template metaprogramming?
20110331 22:09:04< zaroth> I noticed, and was instructed that only very valuable discussions take place there instantly I said hello there for the first time...
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20110331 22:09:44< mordante> it's rather silent, but that shouldn't stop you from starting a discussion there
20110331 22:10:10< mordante> especially since it's silent it's easier to start more off-topic talks
20110331 22:11:12< timotei> zaroth: where you from ? :)
20110331 22:11:14< zaroth> mordante: like you knew... today at work I had to design a small library abstracting communication channels among several protocols
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20110331 22:12:08< zaroth> I decided to use C++ templates, and the compilation errors they produced turned my work day to hell... but I know so much more about templates usage in c++ now ;-)
20110331 22:12:20< mordante> :-)
20110331 22:12:51< zaroth> but no, I wasn't doing heavy work in this area previously, but seems interesting
20110331 22:13:26< timotei> I'm wondering why the .NET/Java guys call them generics, but C++ call them templates. Templates sound much more interesting
20110331 22:13:29< timotei> and cool
20110331 22:13:34< timotei> s/cool/cooler
20110331 22:13:48< AI0867> they're not the same thing
20110331 22:13:49< zaroth> especially since I picked up the "design patterns" book (which many claim is classic) a week ago and I'd like to know my tools better
20110331 22:13:54< mordante> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote »Modern C++ Design: Generic Programming and Design Patterns Applied« which shows how to implement some GoF patterns with C++ templates
20110331 22:13:59< zaroth> so I can try implementing those patterns ;-)
20110331 22:14:14< zaroth> timotei: Poland, and you? :-)
20110331 22:14:15< AI0867> generics contains members of the 'object' class that are cast a lot
20110331 22:14:20< timotei> zaroth: romania
20110331 22:14:30< AI0867> templates generate a new class for every new usage
20110331 22:14:32< mordante> personally I really liked both books and Andrei's book gave me a different view on C++ templates
20110331 22:15:02< deekay> zaroth: #wesnoth-pl ? :)
20110331 22:15:18< mordante> and yes the GoF book is classical, really interesting
20110331 22:15:20< AI0867> so, a C++ vector<foo> is a class that contains 'foo' objects
20110331 22:15:35< zaroth> well, I'm just in the beginning of GoF, so it's start of the road for me ;-)
20110331 22:15:48< AI0867> a java ArrayList<foo> is a regular ArrayList that automatically has (foo) casts added
20110331 22:16:10< zaroth> deekay: nice! added to autojoin :-)
20110331 22:16:20< deekay> Cool. :)
20110331 22:16:34< mordante> zaroth, I read that in your application
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20110331 22:17:05< zaroth> mordante: oh, I didn't know you read it, I linked you just the project proposal afair ;-)
20110331 22:18:17< mordante> it's one of the classical books, really interesting
20110331 22:18:36< Sytyi> mordante: I finished. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GUICanvasWMLSchemaExample
20110331 22:19:05< grzywacz> zaroth, have you tried emerging subversion with "-kde"?
20110331 22:19:45< timotei> mordante: GoF = gang of four? :P
20110331 22:19:45< mordante> Sytyi, reading
20110331 22:19:50< mordante> timotei, yes
20110331 22:20:10< timotei> AI0867: thanks
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20110331 22:20:43< mordante> Sytyi, [blur] is a precommit function so <0,1>
20110331 22:22:16< Sytyi> mordante: OK. and there are no precommit tag? 
20110331 22:23:20< mordante> blur is inside pre_commit, but only allowed 0 or 1 times
20110331 22:24:15< mordante> also most integer fields are actually f_integer fields
20110331 22:24:45< mordante> the difference between an integer and an f_integer is that the latter can be a formula
20110331 22:25:17-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-095-208-006-134.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 22:25:22< zaroth> grzywacz: didn't think of it, I'll try
20110331 22:26:00< mordante> eg an integer is "5" and an f_integer is "(5)", the parenthesis make the differences
20110331 22:26:25< mordante> the formula also can't be fully validated you have to assume it returns an int
20110331 22:26:44< anonymissimus> mordante: did r49035 compile for you ? if yes, why ?
20110331 22:27:54< mordante> anonymissimus, it compiled, I most of the time compile test my code, what error do you get?
20110331 22:28:25< anonymissimus> it was "string is not a member of std" or the like
20110331 22:28:29< mordante> (and when I don't compile test it, I tend to make sure it can't break compilation)
20110331 22:29:17< mordante> anonymissimus, the `issue' with C++ is that standard header may include other standard headers
20110331 22:29:43< anonymissimus> see r49050
20110331 22:29:54< mordante> so I should have included <string> but since some other header `magically' included it it works for my compiler
20110331 22:31:18< mordante> when (IIRC) gcc 4.3 was released we had a lot of breakage since the includes in gcc included less other headers
20110331 22:32:01< mordante> so yes I should have included <string> but since my compiler was happy I didn't search for missing includes
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20110331 22:33:30< mordante> Sytyi, font_size is a mandatory field
20110331 22:33:52< timotei> hi there anonymissimus 
20110331 22:33:52< timotei> :)
20110331 22:34:19< anonymissimus> at all: is there a way to disable the "this save if from a different version - do youw ant to try to load it ?" - dialog
20110331 22:34:57< mordante> anonymissimus, don't think so and also don't think it's a good idea to disable it
20110331 22:35:02< timotei> anonymissimus: wanted to ask, you build wesnoth with MSVC, right?
20110331 22:35:06-!- champ__ [~champ@222.131.32.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20110331 22:35:15< mordante> it warns about possible breakage, which is realistic
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20110331 22:36:30< anonymissimus> mordante: for a normal player yes but i find this annoying
20110331 22:36:47< anonymissimus> timotei: yes, whats up
20110331 22:37:15< timotei> anonymissimus: does your wesnoth still spawn/write into the stderr/stdout files?
20110331 22:37:38< anonymissimus> so I'd appreciate a way to disable it
20110331 22:37:45< timotei> anonymissimus: because IDK why, but for me now it spawns a console and writes there unless redirecting myself (wesnoth.exe >txt 2>txt )
20110331 22:38:39< anonymissimus> timotei: possibly you are running a debug built
20110331 22:38:56< timotei> anonymissimus: of course, Debug(Fast).
20110331 22:39:07< timotei> but I've used that forever and it was spawning the files
20110331 22:39:08< timotei> :-?
20110331 22:39:12< anonymissimus> well if your niot coding c++ use release
20110331 22:39:53< anonymissimus> i never use fast debug actually
20110331 22:41:27< mordante> anonymissimus, then I think you need to disable the code locally
20110331 22:42:47< timotei> anonymissimus: it's very weird
20110331 22:43:00< timotei> but you have a point, I think I should use the release :P
20110331 22:44:26< timotei> umm, anonymissimus 
20110331 22:44:34< timotei> anonymissimus: 2>d:\work\gw\src\lua\luaconf.h(11) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'lua_jailbreak_exception.hpp': No such file or directory
20110331 22:44:38< timotei> anonymissimus: do you get such erros?
20110331 22:44:54< timotei> I think I must update the solution
20110331 22:45:15< mordante> timotei, the jailbreak exception is around for a few weeks
20110331 22:45:34< timotei> mordante: yeah :D
20110331 22:45:42< anonymissimus> timotei: IIRC you can solve that adding a search directory to the lualib project settings
20110331 22:46:08< anonymissimus> I possibly didnt update that for release or fast debug
20110331 22:46:24< timotei> anonymissimus: yeah, I'll commit the change
20110331 22:46:34< Espreon> elias: Just another reminder about --pbl
20110331 22:47:06< anonymissimus> yes its missing
20110331 22:47:45< timotei> mordante, anonymissimus: I've added it, but liblua still doesn't compile. Shouldn't there be "../"? since the jailbreak_exception is one level upper
20110331 22:48:01< mordante> probably yes
20110331 22:48:09< anonymissimus> ..\..\src
20110331 22:48:21< anonymissimus> put that into the additional include directories field
20110331 22:48:24< Sytyi> mordante: So next time I should write annotations and check the schema?
20110331 22:49:40< timotei> mordante, anonymissimus: changing: #include "lua_jailbreak_exception.hpp" into: #include "../lua_jailbreak_exception.hpp" works :)
20110331 22:49:59< anonymissimus> not the way to go
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20110331 22:50:42< timotei> anonymissimus: why not? isn't it logical like that?
20110331 22:50:43< anonymissimus> did you try compiling in debug, which should work
20110331 22:50:55< anonymissimus> then you can just compare and copy things
20110331 22:51:01< timotei> or, does the lua directory be compiled as a separate ... "entity"?
20110331 22:51:15< anonymissimus> because its a code modification
20110331 22:52:05< mordante> Sytyi, once you fixed the issues I pointed out you can write a schema
20110331 22:52:45< mordante> Sytyi, but use the types as listed in the wiki page, eg f_unsigned unsigned etc
20110331 22:53:15< Sytyi> mordante: What schema do you mean? I ve fixed some, but I need to make it one more in the morning. 
20110331 22:53:20< Sytyi> mordante: OK
20110331 22:53:22< mordante> Sytyi, it doesn't matter the schema doesn't know anything about them yet, but it is how it should look
20110331 22:53:59< mordante> Sytyi, I mean the issues I pointed out about half an hour ago
20110331 22:54:17< Sytyi> mordante: OK. good night
20110331 22:54:36< mordante> night Sytyi 
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20110331 22:54:53< mordante> timotei, anonymissimus I agree with timotei and ../lua_jailbreak_exception.hpp looks more logical
20110331 22:55:34< timotei> unless we treat lua as "standalone" and not try to couple with the main game, but we are already doing that by sharing that class
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20110331 22:56:11< mordante> timotei, well that's because the Lua implementation is bad
20110331 22:56:42< timotei> mordante: should I commit the "../" thingy?
20110331 22:56:59< anonymissimus> thats because you did not want to surrender to silene's coding standars :P
20110331 22:57:10< mordante> timotei, yes
20110331 22:57:13< timotei> mordante: ok
20110331 22:57:34< nephx> timotei, you use windows?
20110331 22:57:38< mordante> anonymissimus, silene decided to break Wesnoth's coding standards and not inform us
20110331 22:57:40< timotei> nephx: yes.
20110331 22:58:02< nephx> timotei, can you please try launching wesnoth.exe -t lua_ai -d ?
20110331 22:58:03< mordante> anonymissimus, so please don't joke about it, since it annoys me 
20110331 22:58:14< timotei> Espreon: is it that a so big problem *not* dos2unix the src/projectfiles/VC9 please?
20110331 22:58:38< timotei> Espreon: since everytime they will be formatted windows-like
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20110331 22:58:48< mordante> anonymissimus, also his mail regarding the Lua move to trunk silently ignored the problems it caused
20110331 22:58:51< Espreon> The properties... should prevent issues.
20110331 22:58:58< timotei> Espreon: issues? what issues?
20110331 22:59:10< Espreon> The issue you brought up.
20110331 22:59:35< Espreon> Then again, you're probably using git-svn...
20110331 22:59:39< timotei> Espreon: well, I've just edited something in the solution file, and the diff shows me the entire file changed with the new line endings :)
20110331 22:59:51< timotei> and I don't have any issues mixing files with CRLF / LF
20110331 23:00:02< timotei> (separate files, that is)
20110331 23:00:24< Espreon> timotei: If it really means that much to you, run unix2dos on those.
20110331 23:00:35< mordante> anonymissimus, in fact he said it would make all things go well, bug #17743 shows that that statement was wrong
20110331 23:00:48< timotei> Espreon: just saving the file will trigger the windows line ending :P
20110331 23:00:57< Espreon> 23:00 < Espreon> timotei: If it really means that much to you, run unix2dos on those.
20110331 23:01:01< timotei> okok
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20110331 23:02:07< hadleyt_> wesbot seen Boucman
20110331 23:02:07< wesbot> hadleyt_: The person with the nick boucman last spoke 22h 57m ago.  22h 57m ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20110331 23:02:14< timotei> nephx: one sec
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20110331 23:04:22< Qbunia> how i can copy all template student gsoc page
20110331 23:04:22< Qbunia> ?
20110331 23:04:45< timotei> Qbunia: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=SoC2011_Template_of_Student_page&action=edit
20110331 23:04:56< timotei> Qbunia: copy the whole text from the textbox, and copy it on your page
20110331 23:05:19< Qbunia> ok thx
20110331 23:05:24< Qbunia> timotei: :)
20110331 23:05:31< timotei> nephx: ops. getting error
20110331 23:05:41< nephx> yeap
20110331 23:05:41< timotei> Assertion failed: valid(), file d:\work\gw\src\shared_object.hpp, line 79
20110331 23:05:46< nephx> it's there alright ;]
20110331 23:07:06< CIA-89> timotei * r49076 /trunk/src/lua/luaconf.h: Use the proper include path for the lua_jailbreak_exception.hpp file
20110331 23:07:25< CIA-89> timotei * r49077 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/ (liblua.vcproj wesnoth.sln): Update the msvc solution
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20110331 23:08:02< elias> Espreon: thanks, let me add it now :)
20110331 23:08:11< Espreon> No prob.
20110331 23:10:13-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110331 23:10:42< mordante> I'm off night
20110331 23:11:14-!- p1mps [~p1mps@151.65.21.110] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via]
20110331 23:11:22< timotei> night mordante 
20110331 23:11:30-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110331 23:15:18< CIA-89> elias * r49078 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth_addon_manager: Added --pbl option to wesnoth_addon_manager as requested by Espreon.
20110331 23:15:28< Espreon> elias: Thanks.
20110331 23:15:48< elias> np... let me know if it works
20110331 23:16:05< Espreon> I'll get to doing that in a few minutes.
20110331 23:18:55< CIA-89> anonymissimus * r49079 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Introduced [recall]check_passability=yes|no key (default yes). Removed call to find_recruit_location and calculate recruit location locally since that function seems rather inappropriate here.
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20110331 23:23:22< CIA-89> anonymissimus * r49080 /trunk/src/ (actions.cpp actions.hpp): Removed the now unused parameter need_castle in find_recruit_location.
20110331 23:23:51< Disruption> nighty night devs!
20110331 23:24:05-!- eoc` is now known as eoc
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20110331 23:33:37< Espreon> anonymissimus: http://pastebin.com/DBY3964y
20110331 23:33:59< boucman> hey all
20110331 23:34:09< timotei> Espreon: hi boucman 
20110331 23:34:10< timotei> :)
20110331 23:34:43< Espreon> timotei: I'm sorry, but boucman is not within me.
20110331 23:34:52< timotei> oh. sorry :P
20110331 23:34:56< timotei> autocomplete fail
20110331 23:34:58< boucman> hehe
20110331 23:35:14< timotei> Espreon: I wanted to say you something about a comma, but I guess it's ok
20110331 23:35:27< timotei> Espreon: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/actions.cpp?view=diff&r1=49079&r2=49080&pathrev=49080
20110331 23:35:42< timotei> shouldn't "You don’t have a leader to recruit with." be: "You don't have a leader to recruit with." ?
20110331 23:35:43< timotei> :P
20110331 23:35:55< timotei> don’t vs don't
20110331 23:36:01< Espreon> LOL, wut?
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20110331 23:36:21< Espreon> timotei: They're the same.
20110331 23:36:27< timotei> Espreon: no.
20110331 23:36:29< Espreon> The former's more correct.
20110331 23:36:39< timotei> ok :)
20110331 23:37:09< Espreon> timotei: What gave you the idea there was a semantic difference between the two?
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20110331 23:38:29< CIA-89> anonymissimus * r49081 /trunk/changelog: changelog entry r49079
20110331 23:39:25< timotei> Espreon: well, I didnţt say anything about semantic, but rather about the code :)
20110331 23:39:53< Espreon> Uh... I'm really confused...
20110331 23:40:30< timotei> Espreon: the code of the '
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20110331 23:41:02< Espreon> timotei: What about it?
20110331 23:41:39< timotei> Espreon: well, it showed like an unknown character in my email client (thunderbird), so I was wondering why it's not the ordinary ' but rather another one :)
20110331 23:42:37< Espreon> Because we don't use straight apostrophes in normal in-game text.
20110331 23:44:21< CIA-89> anonymissimus * r49082 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: fix a compiler warning
20110331 23:44:23< timotei> ok, I got it :)
20110331 23:44:30< timotei> good night
20110331 23:44:30< hadleyt_> boucman: hello! could you take a look at my app for the spritesheets project and let me know what you think when you have the time?
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20110331 23:44:34< anonymissimus> Espreon: try again pls
20110331 23:44:40< boucman> url plz
20110331 23:45:04< hadleyt_> boucman: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Sprite_Sheets2011_hadleyt#Description
20110331 23:46:21< CIA-89> espreon * r49083 /trunk/data/core/units.cfg: 'Nagani' -> 'Nagini'.
20110331 23:47:25< shadowmaster> Espreon: why not the other way around?
20110331 23:47:35< shadowmaster> also, who are you consulting before making these changes?
20110331 23:48:36< Espreon> Uh, "nagini" is not a word.
20110331 23:48:39< Espreon> *nagani
20110331 23:48:54< Espreon> I cannot find anything for "nagani".
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20110331 23:49:29< Espreon> Everything I read says "nagini"; "Nagini" is also used in the unit cfrgs.
20110331 23:49:32< Espreon> *cfgs.
20110331 23:50:39< boucman> hadleyt_: are you on the dev ML ?
20110331 23:50:42< Espreon> anonymissimus: Success.
20110331 23:50:43< shadowmaster> Espreon: yeah, yeah, I understand that. I complained about the issue back in 2007.
20110331 23:50:54< Espreon> Perhaps noöne cared?
20110331 23:51:01< shadowmaster> Espreon: and you are claiming that "nagini" is a word?
20110331 23:51:09< shadowmaster> also, where's the answer to my second question?
20110331 23:51:47< Espreon> Noöne.
20110331 23:52:14< shadowmaster> No-one, okay.
20110331 23:53:27< Espreon> Also, of course it is a real word. If it weren't a real word, why would I use it?
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20110331 23:53:58< shadowmaster> No idea, but your definition of "real word" is too flexible to go by that for production environments.
20110331 23:54:08< Espreon> No, this is actually a real word.
20110331 23:55:14< boucman> hadleyt_: I just pasted a mail I sent yesterday on the ML to another student, it applies to you and is a more detailed view of the problematic behind the spritesheet idea
20110331 23:55:21< boucman> please review at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Sprite_Sheets2011#Additional_Information
20110331 23:55:46< boucman> and please redirect students wnating review of spritesheet proposals to that page if i'm not around
--- Log closed Fri Apr 01 00:00:12 2011