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20110330 02:03:55<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r9120 /trunk/To_Lands_Unknown/ (75 files in 7 dirs): 
20110330 02:03:55<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev: Ran wesnoth-optipng:
20110330 02:03:55<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev: Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20110330 02:03:55<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev:  Original size: 6379 KiB on 75 files
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20110330 02:03:55<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev:  Total saving: 94 KiB = 1% decrease
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20110330 03:36:47< Espreon> AI0867: Apparently, you need to worry about things such as "&amp;" too.
20110330 03:37:08< Espreon> AI0867: That's in a string in TRoW; 12_A_Final_Spring.cfg; line 606.
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20110330 06:28:28<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev: chefu-orbivm * r9122 /branches/1.8/Alfhelm/units/ (Ice_Bear.cfg various.cfg): Added the icebear movetype and gave it to the icebear instead of the fe_snow movetype.
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20110330 10:38:12<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev: ai0867 * r9123 /branches/maintenance-toolchain/anglat2futhorc.py: Add entity support
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20110330 10:58:19<+CIA-90> wesnoth-umc-dev: ai0867 * r9124 /branches/maintenance-toolchain/anglat2futhorc.py: Add pango tag support
20110330 10:58:41< AI0867> Espreon: anything else, besides the manual stuff?
20110330 10:59:42< AI0867> and manpages...
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20110330 11:22:26< StDrake> mm..don't see zookeper on..maybe someone else is able to say how to check a units team name in wml?
20110330 11:23:32< fabi> StDrake: I can help you but you need to describe in more detail what you want to do.
20110330 11:25:05< StDrake> I have an ability that makes a unit lay a trap beneath it, and I want to make a label to mark where the trap is, but it should only be visible to that units allies
20110330 11:25:41< fabi> Nice idea.
20110330 11:25:55< StDrake> I think team name shoudl be sufficient to tell if it's an ally or not..if someone likes allied sides with different team names that's their problem xD
20110330 11:26:29< StDrake> problem is I see only side field in single unit wml
20110330 11:27:19< StDrake> hmm..think I got an idea..store side, taking side number from the units field and read team number from there? or is there another way?
20110330 11:27:31< StDrake> err team_name
20110330 11:28:32< fabi> Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to suggest.
20110330 11:29:27< StDrake> ah, thanks, curse my slow thinking xD
20110330 11:29:59< fabi> It took me much time myself to learn how WML works. 
20110330 11:34:27< StDrake> WML isn't that bad, if only I could learn to draw as nicely as I get around with wml
20110330 11:34:35< fabi> :-)
20110330 11:34:49< fabi> draw in the meaning of pixelart?
20110330 11:35:22< fabi> How is your ability triggered? By a context menu entry?
20110330 11:35:29< StDrake> yes
20110330 11:36:01< StDrake> I'm not sure if I got it finishes, but want me to post a paste link?
20110330 11:36:13< fabi> Yes, please.
20110330 11:36:45< fabi> I think it isn't that hard to archive. Just ask if there are more problems on its way. 
20110330 11:36:46< StDrake> um..hmm where was that pasting place? I remember there was a link where to paste not to paste in IRC
20110330 11:37:03< fabi>  http://pastebin.com
20110330 11:37:19< AI0867> StDrake: use the unit's side, then [store_side]
20110330 11:37:39< AI0867> the team_name should be in there, but note that this can be a comma-separated list
20110330 11:38:29< StDrake> only in 1.9.5 according to wiki?
20110330 11:38:33< StDrake> http://pastebin.com/y1ZamCNM
20110330 11:39:18< fabi> I think that should not matter, since the filter will also take a comma separated list. So it will work like expected. Every allied side can see the mine.
20110330 11:39:58< StDrake> gonna test it now and see if i missed anything, note that removing that dirty status is handled elsewhere..i stole a status from one of my other factions xD
20110330 11:40:28< StDrake> I should actually make setting that into a macro, that's a big ugly piece of code
20110330 11:42:23< StDrake> hmm I did get something wront, the context menu isn't showing its name
20110330 11:43:43< fabi> StDrake: You code looks fine on a first glance but you won't need the hacky calculation of the damage with the development version any more. See the [harm_unit] tag.
20110330 11:44:35< StDrake> It's going to be in 1.8 too though, I know the harm_unit bits, proposed some myself
20110330 11:45:22< fabi> Did I understand right that you have a context menu entry that is blank?
20110330 11:45:51< StDrake> well it works, it just doesn't display its text, just a star and blank space
20110330 11:46:17< fabi> StDrake: You misspelled "description"
20110330 11:47:59< StDrake> awww thanks
20110330 11:48:31< fabi> StDrake: If you use the wml emacs mode (yes I know, emacs does have a bad reputation when it comes to user-friendliness) it will autocomplete wml tags for you. That will prevent the misspelling of attributes or tags. It does speed up my development significantly.
20110330 11:49:27< StDrake> I don't know what emacs is xD using good old notepad2
20110330 11:52:38< StDrake> um..hmm..looks like that nested event didn't fire after all
20110330 11:56:03< StDrake> x,y in a moveto event can appear raw or must go into a [filter]?
20110330 11:56:08< fabi> StDrake: emacs is an editor like notepad. A very advanced editor.
20110330 11:56:39< StDrake> or actually..can a command nest an event at all?
20110330 11:58:39< fabi> You need a filter, and yes, command can nest an event. The emacs mode would have told you since it would not have autocompleted x= or y= on the event toplevel.
20110330 12:06:37< StDrake> hmm the overlay isn't appearing somehow..can it be because the unit has no image itself or did I do some mistake in that script again?
20110330 12:08:41< fabi> The unit does not have an image? 
20110330 12:09:06< StDrake> I didn't set any image on the unit that has this ability
20110330 12:09:15< StDrake> (no sprite)
20110330 12:10:02< StDrake> hmm..that can be checked with a different unit that has one though..
20110330 12:11:06< StDrake> nope, that's not it
20110330 12:12:16< fabi> most likely there is something wrong with the image path.
20110330 12:13:15< StDrake> hmm..i copypasted setting the overlay from its original source and it works fine there
20110330 12:13:39< fabi> Does the rest of the code work?
20110330 12:14:35< fabi> have you tried to inspect the the "undermine_victim" variable?
20110330 12:15:08< StDrake> it seems to set the status correctly, but the original event for removing it doesn't see this and the overlay doesn't appear
20110330 12:15:51< StDrake> lemme see what the inspection will give
20110330 12:16:31< fabi> I don't get what you mean by status or original event.
20110330 12:18:36< StDrake> well the trap applies a status that was designed for a different units weapon special
20110330 12:19:49< StDrake> the event for removing that status is also designed for that special, but should be visible as a global event and it's in the same era
20110330 12:22:16< fabi> Does the "Trap!" text appear when a unit moves to the hex field?
20110330 12:23:43< StDrake> yes
20110330 12:24:34< fabi> try x,y=$undermine_victim|.x, $undermine_victim|.y
20110330 12:26:23< StDrake> $name| not $|name ?
20110330 12:26:57< fabi> hmmm
20110330 12:27:33< fabi> The | terminates the variable name.
20110330 12:28:00< fabi> So it searches for undermine_victim instead of undermine_victim.x as the base variable.
20110330 12:28:23< fabi> Using $| will delay variable substitution at all.
20110330 12:29:06< StDrake> hmm nope, that didn't help, unit still doesn't get an overlay
20110330 12:29:38< StDrake> i found why it didn't get the status removed tho xD
20110330 12:30:38< AI0867> there's a key for that
20110330 12:30:46< AI0867> delay_variable_substitution or something
20110330 12:31:19< fabi> StDrake: please try "image=items/ball-magenta.png".
20110330 12:34:14< StDrake> nope
20110330 12:34:55< StDrake> i'll try with $| since i got the substitution delaying set to no
20110330 12:36:48< fabi> Try x,y=$x1,$y1 we know that this works.
20110330 12:37:47< StDrake> dirty, but yeah, those should be the same
20110330 12:37:55< fabi> Since otherwise the unit would not get stored and so the "Trap!" text would not appear.
20110330 12:38:08< fabi> If it still doesn't work there is no problem with the coordinates...
20110330 12:41:12< StDrake> hmm..i moved the tag before the unstoring, maybe that's the cause?
20110330 12:41:48< fabi> did it work?
20110330 12:42:09< StDrake> nope, trying with the overlay tag after the unstore tag again
20110330 12:42:51< StDrake> ah, now it's good
20110330 12:44:37< StDrake> alright, thanks, now just gotta remember to clean up (clear vars and labels)
20110330 12:45:58< fabi> Wait, what was it?
20110330 12:47:47< StDrake> you mean the problem? the original thing I pasted didn't work, so I moved the overlay tag in front of the unstoring - then no matter what we did it would not work cause we overwrite it right after, so when I changed to those $x1,$y1 I placed the tag back in the original spot
20110330 12:48:49< fabi> I see.
20110330 12:50:24< StDrake> so even if the $name| was a fix we couldn't see it cause it was in the wrong spot :/ 
20110330 12:51:34< StDrake> hmm..there is no remove_label tag?
20110330 12:51:47< fabi> No.
20110330 12:52:00< fabi> I think you need to set the label to an empty one.
20110330 12:53:52< StDrake> ahah, nice..and now I have no way to tell the team name of the label so i'll be clearing it for everyone
20110330 12:54:25< StDrake> is it possible to have different teams see different labels on the same tile?
20110330 12:55:48< StDrake> it is!..so i have another problem
20110330 13:02:06< StDrake> ok..I think I know. In case anyone else might encounter this - I'll make a variable for each of those labels that will need removal, and mark the team name in that var..I can make variable name parts from other variable values right?
20110330 13:13:27< StDrake> hmm strange..seems i got the variable messed up, but it still works
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20110330 13:37:57< StDrake> ngh..got a problem while cleaning up that code, was trying to have that unit not get the status if it's already got it, but the if with a variable always returns false
20110330 13:38:25< StDrake> ohai zoo
20110330 13:41:51< zookeeper> ello?
20110330 13:46:34< StDrake> ah, think i go it right now. Having fun with possibly nonexistent variable usage in a nested event context..had to use a have_unit instead of a variable condition xD
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20110330 13:56:04< StDrake> hmm..how to filter out a unit that has no upkeep, but not necessarily with the loyal trait?
20110330 13:56:33< fabi> StDrake: [filter_wml] ?
20110330 13:56:45< fabi> for upkeep=no
20110330 13:57:01< fabi> Only a guess.
20110330 13:57:25< StDrake> hmm..so you're not sure if the upkeep field exists? :D
20110330 13:57:32< StDrake> i'll try that still
20110330 13:57:45< AI0867> upkeep exists, but there are a number of possible values
20110330 13:57:49< AI0867> integer ones of course
20110330 13:58:04< AI0867> but loyal is also an option
20110330 13:58:07< AI0867> and there are more
20110330 13:58:21< StDrake> will a unit with the loyal trait have upkeep set to no?
20110330 13:58:31< AI0867> probably not
20110330 13:58:51< StDrake> that's a problem
20110330 13:59:03< AI0867> you'll have to [or] multiple filters together
20110330 14:02:15< StDrake> and to think it sounded easy..an ability that makes surrounding units not cost any upkeep..
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20110330 14:02:52< AI0867> doesn't that already exist?
20110330 14:02:59< AI0867> check kaleh's abilities in utbs
20110330 14:03:13< StDrake> hmm he does that? will do
20110330 14:04:02< AI0867> even if it exists, you may still want to write your own
20110330 14:04:13< AI0867> utbs is known for its horrible WML
20110330 14:04:34< AI0867> so if you manage to improve on it, submit the changes as a patch
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20110330 14:05:51< zookeeper> you can't make an ability like that without invalidating undo every time you move a unit next to the unit with the ability.
20110330 14:06:13< zookeeper> unless you delay the effect to the start of your next turn, which is good enough otherwise but the upkeep change won't be visible until then.
20110330 14:07:07< AI0867> jessene does the same thing with her distract
20110330 14:07:27< zookeeper> no she doesn't
20110330 14:07:33< zookeeper> why'd you think that?
20110330 14:07:53< AI0867> oh, right, she uses filters
20110330 14:08:00< zookeeper> she just has has skirmisher which applies to adjacent friendlies
20110330 14:08:05< zookeeper> -has
20110330 14:08:10< AI0867> didn't she use to do that though?
20110330 14:08:37< zookeeper> not that i recall, i don't think i'd have put something like that in mainline :P
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20110330 14:11:32< StDrake> hmm checked, but kaleh has nothing like that, unless he gains it in some late scenario
20110330 14:12:12< StDrake> i've pushes his amla to the point where he gains xp over the max and nothing happens, but no such ability appeared, his approvisation just gives him 20% resists at day
20110330 14:12:53< zookeeper> that AMLA was likely disabled or removed due to the said problem with it
20110330 14:14:26< StDrake> means i still gotta write my own, and probably use gold adding instead of really nullifying upkeep
20110330 14:17:36< StDrake> unless..hmm [effect] won't work in an ability, but it can be in an object right? so if i try giving such an object on side turn, then take it away on turn refresh..err..
20110330 14:18:04< StDrake> was there a problem with removing objects?
20110330 14:19:10< StDrake> or if not..will it not break loyal units as well if i don't filter them out?
20110330 14:23:50< StDrake> seems like the main problem is - how to filter out a unit that has [effect] apply_to=loyal [/effect], which may but might not appear in a loyal trait
20110330 14:25:01< StDrake> and how to remove that argh!
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20110330 14:28:10< StDrake> I don't suppose effect apply_to=new ability will let a trait through instead of an ability?
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20110330 14:59:07< StDrake> hmm i got an idea how to do it, anyone still hereto talk about it?
20110330 15:07:21< zookeeper> .
20110330 15:09:43< fabi> zookeeper made a point :-)
20110330 15:10:02< StDrake> alright, so the idea is like that - at side turn I use rather dirty variable modification to add a trait with effect=loyal, using my own id for the trait i hope this won't conflict with anything else, then at turn refresh I do a dirty CLEAR_VARIABLE on that trait
20110330 15:10:43< StDrake> ..and change trait.lenght probably..
20110330 15:11:00< zookeeper> you don't ever need to modify array.length
20110330 15:11:33< StDrake> if i clear an array element it will rearrange itself automatically?
20110330 15:11:35< zookeeper> anyway, the trait quite possibly affects unit.upkeep directly, so you'll need to check if you need to account for that.
20110330 15:11:37< zookeeper> yes
20110330 15:12:32< StDrake> actually the loyal trait and all its subvesions i saw in usage make use of effect apply_to=loyal..which hell knows what it affects
20110330 15:13:10< StDrake> so if i give such a trait it should work o nthe upkeep regardless of any other such traits or settings in existence
20110330 15:13:43< StDrake> and removing it should not affect other such traits nor settings..hopefully
20110330 15:14:31< StDrake> just..how the hell should I insert something into an array with wml? tried {VARIABLE supplied[0].modifications.trait[$(supplied[0].modifications.trait.length+1)].id blah} but it tells me im trying to give it 4 arguments
20110330 15:14:56< zookeeper> nevermind what i said, i think you can just add and remove a loyal trait without needing to do anything else
20110330 15:15:05< zookeeper> uh...
20110330 15:16:10< zookeeper> use [set_variables]
20110330 15:16:14< AI0867> mode=append
20110330 15:17:09< zookeeper> it's kinda tricky, gimme a sec
20110330 15:17:12< StDrake> I need to keep track of the trait index to remove it later..unless there's a mode=truncate or something like that I didn't read about yet?
20110330 15:19:03< zookeeper> this should work: http://pastebin.com/GtKT5A7e
20110330 15:20:06< zookeeper> if you'd just do [set_variables] name=myunit.modifications.trait [value] {TRAIT_LOYAL} [/value] [/set_variables], then you'd end up with unit.modifications.trait.trait
20110330 15:20:13< zookeeper> +mode=append
20110330 15:22:06< zookeeper> to remove, just remove the last item of the trait array
20110330 15:22:32< StDrake> so like clear variable on the array element with index=lenght-1?
20110330 15:22:45< zookeeper> yes
20110330 15:23:00< zookeeper> {VARIABLE i "$($unit.modifications.trait.length - 1)"} {CLEAR_VARIABLE unit.modifications.trait[$i]}
20110330 15:28:50< StDrake> seems to work, still doing more implementation tests
20110330 15:29:35< StDrake> wow,would you believe it, 4 hours spent on this..
20110330 15:40:48< StDrake> wth is upkeep tane away on turn end?
20110330 15:40:52< StDrake> *taken
20110330 15:52:17< StDrake> *sigh* no effect, back to the drawing board
20110330 15:59:39< zookeeper> if you say so.
20110330 16:00:44< StDrake> AHAH! EUREKA! it was just an unstoring syntax bug, IT WORKS!
20110330 16:03:09< StDrake> right, now I just have to rework it into an actual ability, just need to set the filter to store units adjacent to one with the ability, clean up here and there
20110330 16:05:17< StDrake> will you be wanting it for UtBS?
20110330 16:08:59< fabi> StDrake: espreon is the maintainer of utbs. You need to ask him.
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20110330 16:12:01< StDrake> just wondering if i should paste the ready ability with its events here (in pastebin that is), but I guess it will be enough if I show it off in my wml adventures topic eh?
20110330 16:13:14< fabi> StDrake: submitting a patch would be very nice. 
20110330 16:13:38< fabi> StDrake: The utbs related stuff.
20110330 16:14:55< StDrake> never actually trid to submit a patch :/ so didn't even check how to do that..plus I dunno if espreon will want it anyway, I'll post it in my thread and ask him in a pm if he wants it
20110330 16:15:49< zookeeper> yes, that's a better way
20110330 16:18:14< StDrake> oh gee, that filter looks complicated to make..um..ok im guessing the main filter just needs side, then a filter location+filter adjacent location..and not sure now, with my splash damage macro i just put center coordinates into the fal, does that mean I should put the conditions for a unit in the center there?
20110330 16:19:13< StDrake> or just stick side and ability into the base filter and add a fl+fal completely empty to it?
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20110330 16:32:41< StDrake> that's one thing unclear in fal, does the filter in filter_adjacent_location specify what conditions must be met by every tile adjacent to iunowhat, or conditions to be met by the center to which they are adjacent?
20110330 16:34:37< StDrake> oh wait, I think I got it
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20110330 16:53:20< StDrake> now i should just test it with loyal units..errm..ARE there any mainline loyal units?
20110330 16:55:41< StDrake> right..another approach, any idea of a unit in any mp era that might start out as loyal?
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20110330 17:11:39< zookeeper> what the heck is a fal?
20110330 17:11:49< zookeeper> oh, right. nevermind.
20110330 17:14:43< StDrake> an effect of lazyness about writing "filter adjacent location" many times xD
20110330 17:15:05< StDrake> well the ability is posted in wml workshop, i just need to contact espreon now
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20110330 17:25:25< StDrake> there, quest complete heh
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20110330 17:29:52< Gambit> StDrake: FAL/FAIL is an acronym for one of our languages though :)
20110330 17:29:55< Gambit> WML, LUA, and FAIL
20110330 17:30:19 * Gambit wonders if that quote ever got added to the fortunes
20110330 17:30:32< monochromatic> if not, it should
20110330 17:31:13< Gambit> <Sapient> Formula AI Language = FAIL ?
20110330 17:32:32< monochromatic> right, which is why we should all go with the new LAI once it has gone through GSoC
20110330 17:32:32< Gambit> It's there :)
20110330 17:32:44< monochromatic> :)
20110330 17:32:57< Gambit> http://shadowm.rewound.net/asuka/?mode=show&id=145570e9a75f443fe45f9dc05e8abc88
20110330 17:33:50< Gambit> shadowmaster: the next link is broken on Asuka for that quote.
20110330 17:34:00< Gambit> I guess because it's the last one.
20110330 17:34:12< Gambit> but it's not a very graceful looking breakage.
20110330 17:44:06< AI0867> we could follow frogatto's example and call it WFL, but I like being able to call it FAIL
20110330 17:44:29< StDrake> wesnoth fail language? errm, I;m not so sure
20110330 17:44:37< AI0867> wesnoth formula language
20110330 17:44:46< AI0867> frogatto has FML and FFL (markup and formula)
20110330 17:49:21< Gambit> It's true that formulas can be applied in non-AI tasks.
20110330 17:50:34< Gambit> monochromatic: So are they removing FAIL after there's a LUA equivalent?
20110330 17:50:58< Gambit> Note to self: read the gsoc proposals later.
20110330 17:51:14< monochromatic> i don't think
20110330 17:51:25< monochromatic> there's just improving LAI
20110330 17:51:32< monochromatic> they're ARGH
20110330 17:51:35< AI0867> Gambit: no
20110330 17:51:47< monochromatic> as I thought
20110330 17:51:48< monochromatic> \
20110330 17:51:53< Gambit> So they're just exposing AI stuff to lua?
20110330 17:51:58< AI0867> the formulas can be used for variable interpolation and such
20110330 17:52:09< AI0867> where they're very nice to have
20110330 17:52:33< AI0867> and FAI is a functional language, while lua is procedural
20110330 17:54:44< StDrake> um..so what does ARGH stand for then?
20110330 17:55:37< StDrake> aside "quick add more boiling oil"
20110330 18:00:33< AI0867> AI Recognition and General Heuristics
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20110330 18:12:32< StDrake> gotta admit, that does sound ARGH
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20110330 18:33:55< zookeeper> StDrake, why on earth are you using [filter_location] [filter_adjacent_location] [filter] when you could just use [filter_adjacent]?
20110330 18:34:25< StDrake> ahahah..good question
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20110330 18:36:44< StDrake> corrected, hope not too many saw that
20110330 18:54:42< StDrake> note to whoever interested: bread rolls baked in a microwave after circa 5mins..explode
20110330 19:06:04 * zookeeper blinks
20110330 19:06:09< zookeeper> you _bake_ in a microwave?
20110330 19:08:27< Gambit> janebot: !quote 1 Fevens
20110330 19:08:27<+janebot> Gambit: "At least I got to do things my way. The Fevens way." - Fevens 1
20110330 19:09:12< StDrake> fitting xD
20110330 19:10:21< StDrake> actually I didn't like the idea, but mom thought it would be faster to set mv on 'grill' and try to bake them this way
20110330 19:11:09< StDrake> they started burning from the inside while looking hardly ready on the outside..then a second later POOF!
20110330 19:11:18< StDrake> and the mv is full of smoke
20110330 19:12:03< StDrake> back on topic..so how do I post patches then? register on svn, get the svn version of wesnoth, make a patch with something?
20110330 19:16:37< Gambit> Check out the latest version with SVN, register on GNA and post your patch there.
20110330 19:20:37< StDrake> I hate my university for not having said a word about what SVN is, while other students know that :(
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20110330 21:06:42< shadowmaster> 12:32:57 <Gambit> http://shadowm.rewound.net/asuka/?mode=show&id=145570e9a75f443fe45f9dc05e8abc88
20110330 21:06:45< shadowmaster> 12:33:50 <Gambit> shadowmaster: the next link is broken on Asuka for that quote.
20110330 21:06:49< shadowmaster> 12:34:00 <Gambit> I guess because it's the last one.
20110330 21:06:51< shadowmaster> 12:34:12 <Gambit> but it's not a very graceful looking breakage.
20110330 21:06:55< shadowmaster> Gambit: it's not broken.
20110330 21:07:09< shadowmaster> I just typed the element separator in the wrong position.
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20110330 21:18:56< Gambit> K. AFK for class.
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 31 00:00:03 2011