--- Log opened Wed Mar 16 00:00:05 2011
--- Day changed Wed Mar 16 2011
20110316 00:00:05< dougmencken> nope, "Display" doesn't
20110316 00:00:05-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110316 00:00:56< VurtualRuler98> There isn't one that I know of
20110316 00:01:07< VurtualRuler98> then again all my knowledge dates back to these 10 seconds and the year of 2004
20110316 00:01:30< VurtualRuler98> "Show Combat" in the advanced tab
20110316 00:01:38< dougmencken> "Animate map" was "off" since the first time I tries Wesnoth
20110316 00:01:57< dougmencken> VurtualRuler98: show combat is "yes"
20110316 00:02:15< dougmencken> we were about animated terrain
20110316 00:02:21< VurtualRuler98> Hmm.
20110316 00:02:32< VurtualRuler98> Percussive mantinence?
20110316 00:02:37< dougmencken> show combat even with multiplier x8 was okay
20110316 00:02:50< dougmencken> (before 1.9.x)
20110316 00:03:11< dougmencken> VurtualRuler98: perc... what?
20110316 00:03:24< VurtualRuler98> Eeeencooomiiing tvtropes
20110316 00:03:35< VurtualRuler98> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PercussiveMaintenance
20110316 00:03:40< dougmencken> VurtualRuler98: you are more drunk than me ;)
20110316 00:04:00< VurtualRuler98> "Spike Spiegel School Of Repair", I like that.
20110316 00:06:07< dougmencken> <Invalid WML found> # who to blame?
20110316 00:06:19< VurtualRuler98> The code.
20110316 00:06:26< dougmencken> "misses the .png extension"
20110316 00:06:28< VurtualRuler98> For being born invalid.
20110316 00:06:43< dougmencken> VurtualRuler98: I'm seriously, stop kidding, please
20110316 00:06:55< dougmencken> VurtualRuler98: code was great
20110316 00:07:14< shadowmaster> dougmencken: the animate map option affects animated terrains too.
20110316 00:07:19< Espreon> 23:55 < dougmencken> VurtualRuler98: if you are the dev, you can make anything,
20110316 00:07:21< Espreon> Lies.
20110316 00:07:39< VurtualRuler98> The more people on a project, the less you can do.
20110316 00:07:50< VurtualRuler98> Law of conservation of ninjitsu.
20110316 00:08:00< shadowmaster> I wonder if we can get a proper complain now instead of all this nonsense.
20110316 00:08:03< dougmencken> Espreon: they can, they even can support only opengl instead of SDL, so I'll be out-of-board
20110316 00:08:05< shadowmaster> *complaint
20110316 00:08:17< dougmencken> shadowmaster: ?
20110316 00:08:46< VurtualRuler98> This is why you have small teams innovate projects(resulting in the modern PC, and portal), and why Toady can make a simulation of reality.
20110316 00:08:50< Espreon> dougmencken: I'm a dev; I can't do that.
20110316 00:09:07< VurtualRuler98> Anyways, can't your crazy programming-systems identify who wrote what? And yell at them?
20110316 00:09:10< dougmencken> Espreon: thanks the heavens!
20110316 00:10:32< dougmencken> how to remove <Invalid WML found> errors? they are really boring, and is coming everytime
20110316 00:11:11< shadowmaster> it really depends on what they say and when they occur.
20110316 00:11:22< shadowmaster> removing all installed add-ons might help.
20110316 00:11:41< dougmencken> shadowmaster: on *ANY* map: tutorial, single, campaign, multiplayer, network muti
20110316 00:12:06< dougmencken> s/uti/ulti/
20110316 00:12:24< dougmencken> shadowmaster: add-ons? 
20110316 00:12:37< shadowmaster> yep, add-ons.
20110316 00:13:29< dougmencken> shadowmaster: they say: "Terrain image /terrain/water/reef[.] misses the 'png' suffix"
20110316 00:13:54< dougmencken> I didn't installed any add-ons
20110316 00:14:22< dougmencken> s/\/terrain/terrain/g
20110316 00:14:51< shadowmaster> I believe you told me before that you had an older version of Wesnoth installed.
20110316 00:15:03< dougmencken> shadowmaster: I removed them all
20110316 00:15:19< dougmencken> even with all campaign progress
20110316 00:15:23< shadowmaster> have you tried running wesnoth from the source dir directly?
20110316 00:15:30< dougmencken> no
20110316 00:15:44< dougmencken> I removed srcdir, after I did the package
20110316 00:16:02< shadowmaster> bad idea.
20110316 00:16:48< dougmencken> oh, it's even in tty, so I can use gmp: "Invalid WML found: Terrain image 'terrain/void/void' misses the '.png' extension (2)"
20110316 00:17:08< dougmencken> ~hundread of thousands of errors
20110316 00:17:17< shadowmaster> In case I didn't make myself clear,
20110316 00:17:23< shadowmaster> nobody else running 1.9.4 has that issue.
20110316 00:17:33< shadowmaster> Hence I suspect you didn't uninstall the old version correctly.
20110316 00:17:56< dougmencken> shadowmaster: any docs about "uninstalling correctly"?
20110316 00:18:02< shadowmaster> make uninstall
20110316 00:18:24< shadowmaster> from the old version's source dir, previous to make install from the new version's.
20110316 00:18:36< dougmencken> I even removed: $ rm -rf ~./.esnoth*
20110316 00:18:41< shadowmaster> or if you only care about the data files, sudo rm -rf <prefix>/share/wesnoth
20110316 00:18:41< dougmencken> wes*
20110316 00:18:49< shadowmaster> then install the new version
20110316 00:20:39< dougmencken> # ls /usr/share/wesnoth/ --> data  fonts  icons  images  l10n-track  sounds  translations << rm -rf ing it
20110316 00:22:50< dougmencken> may I aslo ask (at the time of unpacking), why don't you provide any bins, only package manager commands?
20110316 00:23:05< dougmencken> for linux x86 targets?
20110316 00:23:12< shadowmaster> just take a look at how many Linux distributions there are out there.
20110316 00:23:34< shadowmaster> consider API and ABI compatibility then.
20110316 00:23:41< dougmencken> ah, Ubunt, Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian
20110316 00:23:49< shadowmaster> not much else left to explain. :)
20110316 00:23:51< dougmencken> shadowmaster: static packaging?
20110316 00:24:25< shadowmaster> that's been considered before.
20110316 00:24:57< dougmencken> shadowmaster: may I publish bins?
20110316 00:25:09< shadowmaster> yes, everyone does.
20110316 00:25:39< dougmencken> wow, I will even provide ldd requirements, and evn can do LDFLAGS="static" too
20110316 00:25:59< shadowmaster> good luck.
20110316 00:26:28< dougmencken> really, to be slaves of package managers... it's not good for free people, imho
20110316 00:29:28< dougmencken> unpacking finished, wish me good luck
20110316 00:29:33< Gambit> My master has been good to me though.
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20110316 00:29:42< Gambit> He puts a roof over my head and takes care of conflicts.
20110316 00:30:35< Gambit> And food is always available with just a few clicks. I need not forage around the wild web as my savage ancestors did.
20110316 00:30:58< Gambit> I need to stop this now before I say something extremely offensive.
20110316 00:31:03< Gambit> Bye.
20110316 00:31:13< shadowmaster> Gambit: /part
20110316 00:34:24< dougmencken> magically, error messages disappear :)
20110316 00:34:51< dougmencken> time to enjoy now golden selection
20110316 00:35:27< dougmencken> is custom cursor switchable off too?
20110316 00:36:17< dougmencken> yeah, it runs nice now
20110316 00:36:44< dougmencken> time to create mp battle :)
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20110316 00:36:53< dougmencken> sorry for bothering
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20110316 00:37:25< shadowmaster> this has taught me a few things
20110316 00:37:31< shadowmaster> a) rm -rf is magic.
20110316 00:37:58< shadowmaster> b) it's possible to install wesnoth again after destroying the source dir.
20110316 00:38:07< shadowmaster> c) apt is my master.
20110316 00:38:38< shadowmaster> now I know
20110316 00:38:38< shikadibot> And knowing is half the battle!
20110316 00:41:45< VurtualRuler98> But do you have the red and blue lasers required?
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20110316 01:22:33< dougmencken> back again :) nice mutilplayer game :) What is "Error while reading... mandatory WML child is missing" and why our game has been interrupted?
20110316 01:22:43< dougmencken> "is missing yet untested for" actually... what does WML stands for at the end?
20110316 01:23:04< dougmencken> yeah, message ends with "Please report" and then interrupts the gam
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20110316 01:26:20< dougmencken> it was on 12th turn or so... battle log is on your server, I suppose
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20110316 01:30:04< dougmencken> hey! I'm not kidding, I'm correctly removed any previous wesnoths too
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20110316 01:30:15< dougmencken> that was a dialog box
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20110316 01:38:37< Espreon|mkraid> dougmencken: WML = Wesnoth Markup Language
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20110316 01:39:08< Espreon|mkraid> What versions were you and the other people using?
20110316 01:39:54< dougmencken> Espreon|mkraid: mine is 1.9.4, vanilla, self-built; I dunno about the other side; my nick was "blindual" and it was the only game today
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20110316 01:40:44< Espreon|mkraid> 'Twas probably the other person's client that did it.
20110316 01:42:52< Espreon|mkraid> dougmencken: Do you have any output?
20110316 01:43:55< dougmencken> Espreon|mkraid: tty output? like "20110316 01:12:13 error general: Error while reading the WML: Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report."?
20110316 01:44:33< Espreon|mkraid> Anything more interesting?
20110316 01:44:36< dougmencken> before: three messages: "20110316 01:05:37 error display: Failed to send visual notification: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken."
20110316 01:44:51< Espreon|mkraid> Nothing else?
20110316 01:45:05< dougmencken> "caught config::error..."
20110316 01:45:17< Espreon|mkraid> Pastebin that.
20110316 01:45:18< dougmencken> I can shot
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20110316 01:45:32< Espreon|mkraid> Nah, just use pastebin.
20110316 01:46:46< dougmencken> okay, but I doubt there's anything really important: http://pastebin.com/xE2mBAG4 ## maybe the opponent really used some ancient wesnoth or was even on little-endian platfrom
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20110316 01:47:51< Espreon|mkraid> dougmencken: Well, I'd show it to the nice people in #wesnoth-dev and tell them what happened.
20110316 01:48:51< dougmencken> Espreon|mkraid: cool, thanks
20110316 01:49:28< dougmencken> Espreon|mkraid: do you test wesnoth on big endian platforms?
20110316 01:49:40< Espreon|mkraid> I don't.
20110316 01:49:53< Espreon|mkraid> I don't think I ever used a big endian platform.
20110316 01:50:02< dougmencken> Espreon|mkraid: okay, got it
20110316 01:50:06< Espreon|mkraid> ... I'm not sure if any of the devs use big endian platforms either.
20110316 01:50:54< dougmencken> Espreon|mkraid: your router uses, your videocard too :) only your CP is now little-endian, and the only little-endian CPU survived in 9x-200x is x86_32/x86_64
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20110316 01:52:00< Espreon|mkraid> OK then.
20110316 01:52:08< Espreon|mkraid> Wha?
20110316 01:52:12-!- Espreon is now known as Guest98880
20110316 01:52:20< Espreon|mkraid> Impossible...
20110316 01:52:32< dougmencken> yeah
20110316 01:52:50< Guest98880> Ah, it was still alive.
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20110316 01:53:28< Espreon> There we go.
20110316 01:53:30< dougmencken> Guest98880: that's all for backward compatibility with windoze apps, sorry
20110316 01:54:05< Espreon> 01:52 < Espreon|mkraid> OK then.
20110316 01:54:48< dougmencken> yeah, that goes to some other holywar channel :) or to private at least
20110316 01:56:20< Espreon> Indeed.
20110316 01:56:36< Espreon> ... especially since I don't care and probably will never care. ;)
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20110316 02:26:22< shadowmaster> Espreon: Jetrel is on PPC, which is big-endian
20110316 02:26:41< dougmencken> shadowmaster: cool
20110316 02:26:54< dougmencken> we're two ;)
20110316 02:28:55< Espreon> I see.
20110316 02:30:22< un214> so does the CIA
20110316 02:33:28< Espreon|mkraid> But what about the КГБ?
20110316 02:34:05< un214> they're behind the times
20110316 02:34:36< Espreon> I see.
20110316 02:34:46< dougmencken> ;)
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20110316 03:16:44< un214> what do you mean a beserking adept is overpowered?
20110316 03:26:15< Aethaeryn> un214: does it berserk in ranged or melee?
20110316 03:26:34< un214> well it has no melee
20110316 03:26:49< Aethaeryn> What happens when an ulfserker berserks a unit that has no melee, like a DA?
20110316 03:27:01< un214> it dies
20110316 03:27:19< Aethaeryn> What, then, would happen if a ranged unit berserked a unit that has no ranged?
20110316 03:27:29< un214> it dies
20110316 03:27:41< Aethaeryn> What is more common: no ranged or no melee?
20110316 03:28:02< un214> no ranged
20110316 03:28:43< Aethaeryn> Does a DA have any modifiers, like poison, slows, or magic?
20110316 03:28:53< un214> but if it lost magic to get it I'd gladly use thunderer on it
20110316 03:29:29< Aethaeryn> Give me a unit that has 1-1 ranged berserk
20110316 03:29:35< Aethaeryn> I don't care what faction.
20110316 03:29:42< un214> average 15 damage
20110316 03:29:45< Aethaeryn> I'll have won the game against anyone but drakes/elves
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20110316 03:30:07< un214> no you don't
20110316 03:30:27< Aethaeryn> It's called covering your glass cannons.
20110316 03:30:42< un214> your glass cannon does 15 damage per turn on average
20110316 03:30:50< Aethaeryn> oh sorry, 1-1 ranged berserk magical
20110316 03:31:02< Aethaeryn> probably 2-1 or 3-1 if it were nonmagical :-P
20110316 03:31:10< un214> ok now it does 18 damage per turn on average
20110316 03:31:28< un214> powerful but not pushover
20110316 03:31:43< Aethaeryn> heh, okay.
20110316 03:31:54< Aethaeryn> Then 1-1 ranged berserk magical is what you need to have a balanced ranged berserk
20110316 03:32:06< Aethaeryn> It has a clear strength and a clear weakness too
20110316 03:32:22< Aethaeryn> It can promote to 1-2 or w/e
20110316 03:32:30< un214> assuming crippling overspecialization is weakness
20110316 03:32:57< Aethaeryn> It's not really that crippling an overspecialization.
20110316 03:33:09< Aethaeryn> Any unit that doesn't have a ranged...
20110316 03:33:30< un214> and almost any that has assinates it
20110316 03:33:50< Aethaeryn> Right.
20110316 03:33:54< Aethaeryn> So you play it like a mage.
20110316 03:34:07< Aethaeryn> Same role, just avoiding ranged units
20110316 03:34:29< un214> I use mage on ranged units
20110316 03:34:31< Aethaeryn> In other words, you'd have about 3-4 melee meatshields (grunts would be perfect here) for every 1
20110316 03:34:49< Aethaeryn> un214: Good flavor then.
20110316 03:35:06< Aethaeryn> You don't want it to be an identical 1-to-1 replacement to another unit.
20110316 03:35:17< Aethaeryn> That wouldn't give the faction/campaign a unique enough feel
20110316 03:35:50< Aethaeryn> my main point is that you treat it like a mage, no, more like a DA
20110316 03:36:09< Aethaeryn> Except instead of fiercely defending it from certain melee death, it's the opposite: certain ranged death.
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20110316 09:29:26< enchilado> Hi all! I have an idea for a Wesnoth campaign. What should I do if the idea doesn't fit entirely well with the Wesnoth history?
20110316 09:29:59< enchilado> For example, this campaign would be about a small kingdom next-door to Wesnoth itself, with the main characters travelling South
20110316 09:30:19< enchilado> Sorry, North. Into Wesnoth.
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20110316 09:53:50< Ivanovic> moin
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 17 00:00:30 2011