--- Log opened Sat Apr 02 00:00:13 2011
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20110402 00:11:28< boucman> Disruption: i'm back, 
20110402 00:11:47< boucman> I want to answer Logomorph first, since he was directed to the logs, then i'll have a look
20110402 00:12:14< boucman> Logomorph: WRT an openGL port, i'll give you my thought, but i'm not sure what to advise
20110402 00:12:34< Disruption> I'm back
20110402 00:12:56< Disruption> I have a jar I can send so you can see and touch a bit the little quantity of controls available
20110402 00:13:06< Disruption> it's enough to see how the program flow would go
20110402 00:13:11< Disruption> at least user-sided
20110402 00:13:59< boucman> as Ivanovic has stated we first estimated that it was too big for a GSoC project, so you would have to convince us we are wrong (which might not be as hard as it seems, but that means you'll have to have a very complete proposal, pointing out in our code what areas are to be worked more seriously etc.... basically prove that you know your stuff)
20110402 00:14:13< boucman> so it's quite a bit of work, that's for sure
20110402 00:14:48< boucman> OTOH, if you have good knowledge of OpenGL, it's clearly an advantage and I we might be convinced by a good proposal
20110402 00:15:46< boucman> as for the technical aspect, the low level rendering is in the XXX_display classes for drawing and images.?pp for image loading, that should be your main entry points
20110402 00:16:40< boucman> i'll gladly discuss all that when we're both around, but it's a bit tricky through irclog :)
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20110402 00:18:26< boucman> Disruption: URL to your images plz ?
20110402 00:20:26< Disruption> don't you prefer to execute the .jar and see it live?
20110402 00:20:31< Disruption> it's an executable app with the gui only
20110402 00:20:34< Disruption> fully operative per se
20110402 00:21:35< boucman> Disruption: I could, but you'll have to add it to your wiki page eventually, other devs will want to evaluate the proposal too
20110402 00:21:48< Disruption> yes, of course
20110402 00:22:03< Disruption> I'll add it, don't worry
20110402 00:22:34< Disruption> but for a first check it's better this way, as you can see if there's something with the flow itself
20110402 00:23:05< boucman> k, where can I find the jar ?
20110402 00:23:23< Disruption> I can upload it where you want, or send it to an email address if it's easier for you
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20110402 00:24:53< boucman> upload it to your favorite exchange site (mine is dl.free.fr, but it's in french) and i'll download from there...
20110402 00:25:18< Disruption> dl.free.fr is ok
20110402 00:25:41< Disruption> We learn a bit of French here in spain :)
20110402 00:25:48< boucman> hehe
20110402 00:26:50< Disruption> it's uploading, I hope
20110402 00:26:56< Disruption> only 100KB, should be quick, I hope
20110402 00:27:11< Disruption> got it
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20110402 01:12:33< Disruption> night room :)
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20110402 02:27:01< dtadeuszow> Has anyone heard from Euschn about improving village naming?
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20110402 02:38:32< Xenmen> Hi, I'd like to participate as part of the SoC
20110402 02:39:21< Xenmen> The AI-improvements ideas look pretty spiffy
20110402 02:39:39< Xenmen> I've been experimenting with some similar ideas in a few private projects
20110402 02:40:19< Xenmen> The 'Eval-Based AI' suggestion in the NotSoEasyCoding list is something I was thinking about really recently myself
20110402 02:40:26< Xenmen> I'd like to take a crack at it
20110402 02:40:39< Xenmen> I'm still grabbing the svn; 200Mb so far
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20110402 02:41:30< Xenmen> Is anyone on that's had experience with the in-dev AI? Any pitfalls I should keep an eye out for, or suggestions for where would be good to begin?
20110402 02:42:47< Xenmen> It's been a couple years since I was actively watching this project; I don't really know what major AI changes have taken place
20110402 02:43:03< Xenmen> I'm guessing that there are AI 'personalities' already implemented
20110402 02:43:40< shadowmaster> Not AFK, but the AI has configurable "aspects" that can be tweaked in a team/scenario basis
20110402 02:43:46< shadowmaster> *AFAIK
20110402 02:44:00< Xenmen> Ah, 'kay 'kay
20110402 02:44:10< Xenmen> a good starting point for Eval-based AI then
20110402 02:44:24< Xenmen> I was hoping that it was at least partially implemented
20110402 02:44:27< shadowmaster> in any case, the AI expert (and mentor) is Crab_
20110402 02:44:43< Xenmen> What timezone is he in?
20110402 02:45:16< Xenmen> Or should I try contacting him in the forums
20110402 02:45:47< Xenmen> (I'm assuming he has the same handle there)
20110402 02:45:55< shadowmaster> not sure, but I think he's from Central Europe
20110402 02:46:05< shadowmaster> his forum username doesn't have the underscore
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20110402 02:46:47< Xenmen> Thanks @shadowmaster; I'll fire him a pm
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20110402 03:32:47< tschmitz> OK, so I'm trying to compile wesnoth.
20110402 03:33:07< tschmitz> Using VC9
20110402 03:33:16< tschmitz> I did it; it ran
20110402 03:33:41< Xenmen> :D
20110402 03:33:44< tschmitz> it crashed at certain times, though.
20110402 03:33:51< tschmitz> Now, it will no longer build
20110402 03:34:06< Xenmen> you didn't update any of the dependencies?
20110402 03:34:17< tschmitz> Perhaps that's the problem
20110402 03:34:19< tschmitz> what does that mean?
20110402 03:34:20< Xenmen> or... windows updates?
20110402 03:34:37< Xenmen> I haven't grabbed the Wesnoth dependencies yet
20110402 03:34:51< Xenmen> but sometimes when you update those dependencies to really recent builds
20110402 03:34:58< tschmitz> I have disabled windows updates for my computer, but I probably have some of the updates from before I turned it off
20110402 03:35:07< Xenmen> they aren't compatible anymore with the project you're building
20110402 03:35:23< Xenmen> I used to run into that a fair bit with Python
20110402 03:35:36< tschmitz> Hm
20110402 03:35:57< Xenmen> How recently was it successfully compiling?
20110402 03:36:20< tschmitz> A few days ago, possibly a week ago, just after I had downloaded the source
20110402 03:36:45< Xenmen> The stable source, in-dev source, or the svn?
20110402 03:36:47< tschmitz> I have used TortoiseSVN update a couple times since then
20110402 03:36:53< Xenmen> Ah, the SVN
20110402 03:36:59< tschmitz> trunk
20110402 03:37:28< Xenmen> I just grabbed the trunk tonight myself; won't be able to help much on that then   D:
20110402 03:38:37< tschmitz> Hmmm
20110402 03:38:49< tschmitz> Let me SVN update again now ...
20110402 03:39:42< Xenmen> You're using the 1.9 dependency package right? ftp://ftp.terraninfo.net/wesnoth/msvc9/external_19.zip
20110402 03:39:56< tschmitz> Ah right that thing
20110402 03:39:59< tschmitz> I believe so
20110402 03:40:05< tschmitz> I'll look at it
20110402 03:40:39< Xenmen> You probably have this already open, but: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows
20110402 03:40:51< tschmitz> Heh yeah thanks
20110402 03:41:09< Xenmen> hrm: "last one checked and known to work: trunk r45254m (Sat, Sep 4th, 2010)"
20110402 03:41:13< Xenmen> that's not very encouraging...
20110402 03:41:14< Xenmen> XD
20110402 03:41:42< Xenmen> Is there anyone else on who's built the trunk lately? With VS or otherwise?
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20110402 03:55:34< tschmitz> Ah good, I put the wrong external/dll path into my PATH
20110402 03:55:39< tschmitz> hopefully that will be all.
20110402 03:58:17< Xenmen> *fingers-crossed*
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20110402 06:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 191 bugs, 305 feature requests, 20 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110402 08:33:02< boucman> http://gna.org/bugs/?17982 probably easy coding if someone is looking for a patch idea
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20110402 08:39:30< timotei> morningn
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20110402 09:07:57< Nephro> Wow, this tech business starts really bugging me... First the debugger suddenly stops working as it should... Then everything is fine. Then I get disk boot failure, then in 5 minutes it works again. What next?
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20110402 09:28:31< tschmitz> Anyone around that thinks they could troubleshoot compiling Wesnoth?
20110402 09:28:41< timotei> hi tschmitz 
20110402 09:28:49< timotei> os/build system ?
20110402 09:28:50< tschmitz> Hi timotei
20110402 09:28:55< tschmitz> Windows VC9
20110402 09:29:06< nephx> I use MSVC9
20110402 09:29:15< timotei> timotei: good. I use that too
20110402 09:29:19< timotei> what problems are you encountering?
20110402 09:29:34< tschmitz> Well it built a few days ago, maybe a week ago
20110402 09:29:57< tschmitz> although it crashed at times that I thought it probably shouldn't
20110402 09:30:06< tschmitz> and now it no longer does
20110402 09:30:24< tschmitz> it gave me some linker errors, so I started downloading the libraries it complained about
20110402 09:31:45< tschmitz> the errors now mention some unresolved external symbols
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20110402 09:32:10< tschmitz> I'm supposing there's the possibility that the .libs I attempted to use were not the ones it wanted
20110402 09:32:39< tschmitz> I'm a bit baffled, seeing as it *did* build a few days ago
20110402 09:32:55< timotei> tschmitz: well, if you use Crab_'s ... external zip there should be no problems building
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20110402 09:33:00< timotei> you can clean the solution, and rebuild it
20110402 09:33:06< tschmitz> I see
20110402 09:33:13< tschmitz> Yeah, so it did work originally
20110402 09:33:29< tschmitz> so the external zip is supposed to contain those .libs that I need?
20110402 09:33:31< tschmitz> Is that the idea of it?
20110402 09:33:59< tschmitz> And you recommend attempting a rebuild
20110402 09:34:26< tschmitz> There's no reason that doing an SVN update would mess anything up, is there?
20110402 09:34:50< timotei> tschmitz: hmm. no
20110402 09:34:59< timotei> especially since I've build wesnoth just yesterday :)
20110402 09:35:08< tschmitz> Right
20110402 09:35:19< timotei> if there would have been new files, me or annonymisus, would update the solution.
20110402 09:35:27< tschmitz> so the external zip is supposed to contain the necessary libraries?
20110402 09:35:28< timotei> or if you use the cmake generated .sln it would be already there
20110402 09:35:36< timotei> tschmitz: not only that, but all dependencies
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20110402 09:35:41< tschmitz> I see
20110402 09:35:55< timotei> getting linker errors either mean there are not the required libs, or maybe you are using an outdated build
20110402 09:35:56< tschmitz> Interesting problem
20110402 09:36:05< timotei> but in the meantime the files have changed but not rebuild
20110402 09:36:08< timotei> rebult*
20110402 09:36:14< timotei> grr. rebuilt*
20110402 09:36:20< tschmitz> If I do an update, should I rebuild the entire solution?
20110402 09:36:37< timotei> tschmitz: yeah
20110402 09:36:41< tschmitz> I see
20110402 09:36:41< timotei> but if you do updates
20110402 09:36:47< timotei> from svn, you don't need to usually
20110402 09:36:47< tschmitz> I can imagine that's where the problem lies, then
20110402 09:36:55< timotei> since it will recompile modified files anyway
20110402 09:36:57< tschmitz> That's what I was hoping
20110402 09:37:03< tschmitz> Yeah, that's what I was hoping
20110402 09:37:14< tschmitz> because ... rebuilding would take a comparatively long time
20110402 09:37:16< timotei> but when you get errors, just then recompile the entire solution. It may be 50% chances to rebuild succesfully
20110402 09:37:21< timotei> yep
20110402 09:37:47< tschmitz> All right, perhaps I can say rebuild all and then go to sleep
20110402 09:38:05< tschmitz> 50% chances it might work? Not too bad
20110402 09:38:31< tschmitz> Does that seem like a good bet?
20110402 09:38:37< timotei> IDK :P
20110402 09:38:48< tschmitz> Hah yeah ...
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20110402 09:46:29< CIA-89> shadowmaster * r49088 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog): changelogs: Fix some duplicate whitespace
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20110402 10:14:25< Ivanovic> moin
20110402 10:14:39< timotei> hi Ivanovic 
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20110402 10:27:57< Salade> hi, i wonder if any dev who is familar with the terrain_graphics rendering could take a look at my question on forum. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=33463
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20110402 10:43:52< Logmorph> hey everyone
20110402 10:44:10< zaroth> hello Logmorph
20110402 10:49:06< Soliton> Logmorph: boucman left you messages in the log under "Logomorph".
20110402 10:49:15-!- eoc` is now known as eoc
20110402 10:49:29< Logmorph> yup, I saw his message
20110402 10:49:30< Logmorph> :)
20110402 10:49:57< Logmorph> cf topic
20110402 10:50:52< Soliton> right, just making sure since he misspelt your nick.
20110402 10:52:11< shadowm_laptop> "Logomorph" sounds like a cool name for a FOSS project to me.
20110402 10:52:19< Logmorph> wow
20110402 10:52:25< Logmorph> seems I mispelled my nick
20110402 10:52:25< Logmorph> =))
20110402 10:53:33-!- Logmorph is now known as Logomorph
20110402 10:53:40< Logomorph> ok
20110402 10:53:43< Logomorph> :))
20110402 10:54:17< Soliton> heh, i see.
20110402 10:55:13< Logomorph> it's somewhat a reference to matrix....and a bunch of other stuff
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20110402 10:58:25< shadowm_laptop> like rabbits?
20110402 10:58:54< Logomorph> no....
20110402 10:59:57< Logomorph> I used to be really fond of the logos from matrix....and then I liked x-men, too, so the second part is from mistique...
20110402 10:59:59< Logomorph> but it also means morphing words
20110402 11:00:25< Logomorph> and it was the only twitter thing I could think of that wasn't taken
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20110402 11:01:37< Logomorph> dunno...it just came into my mind and it didn't seem to be used by anyone anywhere...
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20110402 11:16:35< timotei> wow, I'm wondering. How did the start campaign+scenario from command line even work before
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20110402 11:27:56< zaroth> could somebody knowledgable with the config class tell me what happens here? http://paste.kde.org/8758/
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20110402 11:28:40< zaroth> it's from multiplayer_create.cpp
20110402 11:30:22< zaroth> and I can't figure why do we compare .first with .second.... (both are const_child_iterators)
20110402 11:32:11< shadowmaster> if both .first and .second are equal to each other, it means the originating child range is empty
20110402 11:32:25< shadowmaster> in such case, .first and .second equal to the end of the range
20110402 11:33:23< shadowmaster> (IIRC)
20110402 11:34:18< zaroth> in no actual scenario will they be equal to each other?
20110402 11:34:53< shadowmaster> In general, with C++ STL-like containers, when both the beginning and end iterators are equal, you've got a case of an empty container
20110402 11:35:07< shadowmaster> the end iterator always points *past* the last element, remember
20110402 11:35:31< zaroth> yeah, i know that, but i don't know why do we *break* when we find one
20110402 11:35:47< zaroth> doesn't that mean that we just found invalid scenario and should skip over this one?
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20110402 11:36:33< zaroth> because levels seems like a constant, non changing range here to me...
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20110402 11:36:36< zaroth> oh wait...
20110402 11:36:48< zaroth> I totally overlooked levels.first++ line >.>
20110402 11:36:50< mordante> servus
20110402 11:36:58< zaroth> nevermind me now...
20110402 11:37:03< zaroth> servus mordante
20110402 11:37:17< shadowmaster> it does look somewhat confusing
20110402 11:37:24< mordante> servus zaroth 
20110402 11:37:44< shadowmaster> I wonder if whatever the coder was trying to do there wouldn't be better done in some other way
20110402 11:38:14 * shadowmaster goes to get sleep
20110402 11:39:04< timotei> night shadowmaster 
20110402 11:39:50< CIA-89> timotei * r49089 /trunk/src/game.cpp: 
20110402 11:39:50< CIA-89> Fix the "-c" command line option. Instead of checking
20110402 11:39:50< CIA-89> the existing scenarios for a valid one (which always fails
20110402 11:39:50< CIA-89> since the campaigns's scenarios aren't available at startup)
20110402 11:39:50< CIA-89> just take the name for granted, because eventually
20110402 11:39:51< CIA-89> we'll get an error 'Unknown scenario' if the ID doesn't exist.
20110402 11:40:05< CIA-89> timotei * r49090 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/utils/GameUtils.java: 
20110402 11:40:05< CIA-89> eclipse plugin: Prevent redundant parsing of the scenario/_main.cfg file
20110402 11:40:05< CIA-89> when starting a campaign/scenario, but instead use the cached
20110402 11:40:05< CIA-89> IDs
20110402 11:40:10< zaroth> shadowmaster: you bet... and now I'll try to wrap my head around how to add another range to the iteration without breaking it
20110402 11:40:15< zaroth> good night
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20110402 11:46:29< mordante> tschmitz, when it crashes best pastebin a callstack bactrace it might be there is a bug in Wesnoth
20110402 11:47:01< mordante> tschmitz, also when a compilation error occurs also post the information somewhere
20110402 11:48:00< mordante> tschmitz, I recently added game_errors.cpp might be your buid-system doesn't compile that file resulting in link errors
20110402 11:48:15< tschmitz> Hm OK I will keep that in mind
20110402 11:48:26< tschmitz> Currently rebuilding, it appears to be going smoothly
20110402 11:48:38< mordante> ok good
20110402 11:50:07< tschmitz> Presumably I messed something up regarding setting up the dependencies and hopefully it will work this time
20110402 11:50:32< tschmitz> Then again, it hasn't reached the link stage yet for wesnoth or wesnothd
20110402 11:50:56< mordante> that's also possible, but we often get errors once we add a new .cpp file, we only update the official build systems
20110402 11:51:21< mordante> and hand-hacking MSVC project files seems a bit tricky
20110402 11:51:47< mordante> timotei, I only use -c without an option, don't know the id's from the top of my head
20110402 11:52:13< mordante> maybe a --list-campaigns option might be nice, but don't know how easy it would be to add
20110402 11:52:22< timotei> mordante: trivial to add.
20110402 11:52:30< timotei> mordante: but I use -c with ids from the eclipse plugin :)
20110402 11:52:30< mordante> ok
20110402 11:52:39< mordante> ah ok
20110402 11:52:40< timotei> just right click on scenario file and start directly that :D
20110402 11:53:04< timotei> http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/console/
20110402 11:53:16< timotei> I wonder if that's considered to be a 1st April prank
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20110402 11:56:36< Logomorph> timotei: obviously
20110402 11:57:09< Logomorph> timotei: but it's not as good as the older ones...
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20110402 11:59:28< timotei> btw Ivanovic, what happened with alink? It's very much time since he hasn't been around
20110402 11:59:40< Ivanovic> timotei: that is/was always normal for him
20110402 11:59:49< timotei> Ivanovic: really?
20110402 11:59:58< Ivanovic> he has some time when he is around regulary and some longer periods where he is not around at all
20110402 12:00:01< Ivanovic> yes, really
20110402 12:00:06< timotei> oh. ok :)
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20110402 12:13:49< Disruption> Hi devs! :)
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20110402 12:40:42< zaroth> yay! :D
20110402 12:40:54< zaroth> my mp campaign picture shows up :D
20110402 12:41:11< zaroth> now only to get the defines working correctly...
20110402 12:41:33< zaroth> happy and pleasant coding is all about small rewards on the way ;-)
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20110402 12:49:45< nephx> zaroth, well, sometimes tasks are such that either it works, either not
20110402 12:50:11< Ivanovic> zaroth: lucky you if you have small and rewarding steps!
20110402 12:50:26< zaroth> nephx: that's when coding can get unpleasant ;-)
20110402 12:50:34< Ivanovic> sadly often you end with *many* probs along the way making it almost impossible to see the good parts
20110402 12:50:47< Ivanovic> (though once it *does* work out it feels really extatic ;) )
20110402 12:50:58< nephx> Especially these contest tasks... I remember it very well, you have 5 hours, 3 tasks, you spend 2 hours on a task and it just doesn
20110402 12:51:00< nephx> 't work
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20110402 13:10:44< mordante> I'm off bye
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20110402 13:20:51< zaroth> ha! I just found a recursive dialog box call in wesnoth!
20110402 13:21:19< zaroth> new campaign dialog returns itself if I close the difficulty box!
20110402 13:21:48< zaroth> so I teoretically could clutter whole free memory by closing the difficulty box many times :D
20110402 13:23:34< zaroth> s/teo/theo
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20110402 13:38:33< zaroth> now when I use an IDE (kdevelop) to navigate the wesnoth code (instead of vim as before), I really started to appreciate doxygen docs
20110402 13:39:13< zaroth> finding a helpful description just when you hover over a mysterious function is like finding a pirate treasure
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20110402 13:40:15< zaroth> developers, I ask this in name of all newcomers to the code: please do this more often :-)
20110402 13:40:34< zaroth> (writing doxygen comments, I mean)
20110402 13:41:07< nephx> zaroth, what part of the code are you studying?
20110402 13:41:58< zaroth> nephx: trying to add (hackish) support for MP difficulties without preloading the whole campaign
20110402 13:42:15< zaroth> just now I'm looking at game.cpp, trying to understand how it's done regularly
20110402 13:42:20< nephx> sounds painful
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20110402 13:43:24< zaroth> I still can't figure where the defines are applied
20110402 13:43:28< nephx> I once started work on an improvement of a module, I studied it for like 8 hours, when I finally understood how it works, the boss said that I must delete it all and write a new one ;) no way was I like in rage
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20110402 13:44:42< zaroth> I see something like "game_config::scoped_preproc_define campaign_define", but that's just constructor and I don't know where exactly is the campaign file reloaded with the e.g. CAMPAIGN_LOW define
20110402 13:46:10< zaroth> nephx: THAT sounds painful ;-) did your boss change your mind after he told you first or you just didn't ask before?
20110402 13:47:43< nephx> well, what he said was: "ok, the module is totally broken fix it"... first thing to do is of course investigate, then I report: "yup it's totally broken and we might as well pay a visit to the developer to cut his hands off", answer: "argh, don't bother fixing it then, just delete it and write a new one"
20110402 13:47:49< zaroth> all right, going to dinner
20110402 13:48:14< zaroth> I really hope Crab_ materializes in the meantime and helps me understand this process at least a bit more
20110402 13:48:21< zaroth> ;-)
20110402 13:48:32< nephx> I think 50% of the gsoc candidates rely on that
20110402 13:48:34< nephx> :D
20110402 13:50:57< zaroth> nephx: you mean on Crab_ or on mentors at all ? if you meant the second, then the other 50 % probably hasn't started coding yet :P
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20110402 13:52:13< zaroth> ah, the nice whey to say it in English is: s/the second/the latter/
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20110402 14:08:26< gktpro> Hi all i am interested in developing AI for the wesnoth through GSoC but as i see there are some student already listed at this page under the Ai development section[http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#Extend_Wesnoth.27s_Lua_AI_support_and_improve_Wesnoth.27s_AI] does that mean students are already selected by the wesnoth for AI.
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20110402 14:11:27< nephx> gktpro, no, those ar eonly candidates, you should create a similar page yourself, and start working on something asap
20110402 14:12:09< gktpro> where would I find topic for the AI
20110402 14:12:09< zaroth> gktpro: no students are selected so far (that happens around 20th april) and if students' projects are disjoint enough, there can be more than one student working on the same idea
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20110402 14:14:10< nephx> gktpro, the topic for the AI was at the page you saw the students at
20110402 14:14:59< gktpro> but those are the ideas of students does't the developer have any ideas for AI
20110402 14:15:19< gktpro> or do we have to comeup with our own idea
20110402 14:15:35< nephx> No, the three guys under the AI list are all applying for the idea of Crab_, one of the developers here
20110402 14:16:01< nephx> You can come up with your own idea I think, but you'll have to prove that it's good :)
20110402 14:16:26< gktpro> what are the idea's of Crab_
20110402 14:17:11< nephx> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_LuaAI_2011
20110402 14:19:15< nephx> the most important part is the exposal, if you complete that fast enough you can use the rest of the time for ideas that are more fun to you
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20110402 14:23:35< gktpro> nephx, you mean exposal from C++ to Lua
20110402 14:25:53< gktpro> nephx:^
20110402 14:27:11< gktpro> how can i start working on it as you said "start working on something asap" nepx:^
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20110402 14:30:05< nephx> um, well, you probably don't want to start working on the exact GSoC task, wait for Crab_, he might give you a task, and also there tasks in the bottom of the idea page(pre gsoc tasks)... You can also complete something from the EasyCoding list or patch up a bug
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20110402 14:37:23< gktpro> nephx, should i inform Crab_ before starting with the pre-gsoc tasks and if  yes how should i.
20110402 14:38:55< nephx> i don't think that you must inform him, but it would probably be wise to tell him that you are intending to create a proposal. What you really must do, would be the Wiki page
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20110402 14:40:17< nephx> zaroth, added them abbreviations right under that question
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20110402 14:45:41< gktpro> nephx, do you know how many students will be selected for the AI development.
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20110402 14:46:01< nephx> No idea, I think noone knows that at the moment :)
20110402 14:47:28< gktpro> any idea how many got selected in 2010
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20110402 14:48:34< eoc>  417 mentoring orgs applied and 175 were accepted this year. In 2010, 367 mentoring orgs applied and 151 were accepted; 5539 proposals were submitted by 3464 students, and 1026 were accepted
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20110402 14:55:06< timotei> gktpro: it depends just on the proposals :) But usually there won't be the case of 2 students working on exactly same project. unless they have explicit diferent tasks, and they don't depend on each oter
20110402 14:55:10< timotei> s/oter//other
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20110402 15:00:31< gktpro> timotei, that means for the project idea "Extend Wesnoth's Lua AI support and improve Wesnoth's AI", only one student will be selected. 
20110402 15:01:14< timotei> gktpro: well, IDK for sure, but unless that idea will extend into 2 or more different areas, I think so
20110402 15:01:37< timotei> gktpro: but in the same time, nobody could be selected if other proposals in other areas are better :)
20110402 15:01:55< gktpro> :(
20110402 15:02:09< timotei> why sad?
20110402 15:02:24< timotei> just make a good proposal and you're covered. prove that you can acomplish the project :)
20110402 15:03:41< gktpro> there on the idea page I red this guy [Qbunia] propositon and kind of experience he hold completely outclass mine, moreover he has participated earlier also for the AI.
20110402 15:04:18< timotei> gktpro: it doesn't matter so much the experience but rather the proposal ;)
20110402 15:06:02< gktpro> but the proposal's are only limited to whats there on "Extend Wesnoth's Lua AI support and improve Wesnoth's AI" idea page, right. 
20110402 15:06:21< gktpro> for AI dev.
20110402 15:06:33< timotei> gktpro: not at all. You can/should expand your proposal in any way you consider benefical for the project
20110402 15:08:44< gktpro> but without knowing the wesnoth project in detail it will be difficult to come up with new proposal. fore example how would i know if wesnoth AI lacks in, that can be improved.
20110402 15:09:25< vultraz> humm
20110402 15:09:26< timotei> gktpro: you could either ask the devs/community/mentors(especially Crab_), or play the game and find by yourself :)
20110402 15:09:35< vultraz> the map editor in 1.9.5 looks bad
20110402 15:09:39< vultraz> flaky
20110402 15:09:49< vultraz> and rough
20110402 15:09:56< vultraz> not smoothe
20110402 15:10:46< vultraz> humm wait lemme check my res
20110402 15:11:38< Aethaeryn> gktpro: timotei is right. You need to find Crab_.
20110402 15:11:49< Aethaeryn> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110402 15:11:49< wesbot> Aethaeryn: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 23h 22m ago.  22h 27m ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20110402 15:12:35< vultraz> AUGH
20110402 15:12:40< vultraz> same bug
20110402 15:12:55< vultraz> segfaults when I change res when not in full screen
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20110402 15:14:32< vultraz> nope still display still rough
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20110402 16:32:16< fabi> Did someone take care about the april first joke?
20110402 16:35:34< Gambit> What April fools joke ;D
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20110402 18:36:15< fabi> Gambit: We had those in the last years. 
20110402 18:36:46< Gambit> fabi: Really now?
20110402 18:36:48< fabi> Gambit: Announcing that microsoft is going to use the wesnoth engine for their next ages of empire was on of the older ones.
20110402 18:37:02< Gambit> :o
20110402 18:37:19< Gambit> AoEIII DOESN'T ACTUALLY USE THE WESNOTH ENGINE?
20110402 18:37:22< Gambit> I am shocked.
20110402 18:37:23< fabi> Another one was that we discovered that the RNG is highly biased and that wesnoth is going to go deterministic.
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20110402 18:37:36< Gambit> fabi: Yes. I know.
20110402 18:37:37< fabi> That was last year iirc.
20110402 18:37:41< Aethaeryn> Gambit: AoE IV
20110402 18:37:43< Gambit> I was joking.
20110402 18:37:50< Aethaeryn> AoE III happened, it's just that no one really payed too much attention.
20110402 18:37:57< Aethaeryn> For the sake of balance, they kinda set the popcap too low
20110402 18:38:01< Gambit> You know like… "What april fools joke? They're all real."
20110402 18:38:05< Aethaeryn> So there was actually *less* potential max than AoE 2
20110402 18:38:07< Gambit> I even used a winking smiley. :|
20110402 18:38:31< Aethaeryn> Since it was 200 cap (like AoE II) but with most good units taking up more than one slot
20110402 18:39:02< fabi> Maybe a good joke would be that we are going to sync our releases with the gsoc schedule. 
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20110402 18:41:33< Gambit> fabi: We had one this year
20110402 18:41:47< Gambit> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33459#p484098
20110402 18:42:39< Aethaeryn> fabi: A better joke would be that we are going to sync our releases with the Ubuntu schedule.
20110402 18:42:55< Aethaeryn> Except make that mailing list only, since no one else would really complain.
20110402 18:44:41< Gambit> There was a decidedly less funny April Fools joke in off topic.
20110402 18:44:45< Gambit> But we shan't speak of it.
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20110402 18:46:11< timotei> lol @ thread
20110402 18:50:28< fabi> The units are so cute.
20110402 18:50:47< fabi> Gambit: Thanks for pointing me at it.
20110402 18:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 191 bugs, 305 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110402 19:01:09< fabi> hmmm, the forum is kinda slow today, or is it my connection?
20110402 19:03:32< Gambit> janebot: http://forums.wesnoth.org
20110402 19:03:33< janebot> Gambit: title: Battle for Wesnoth &bull; Index page
20110402 19:03:42< Gambit> fabi: It's your connection.
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20110402 19:09:21< fabi> Gambit: Thanks.
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20110402 19:36:14< tschmitz> has external_19.zip changed recently?
20110402 19:36:39< Nephro> tschmitz, you havin' troubles compiling?
20110402 19:36:56< tschmitz> I've been for a few days, yeah
20110402 19:37:05< Nephro> msvc9?
20110402 19:37:08< tschmitz> Yes
20110402 19:37:26< Nephro> you need an updated .bat file
20110402 19:37:29< Nephro> I'll give you
20110402 19:38:07< tschmitz> I did not make use of any .bat file last time it compiled properly ...
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20110402 19:38:18< tschmitz> the .bat file included didn't seem to do anything
20110402 19:38:30< tschmitz> or maybe it did and I just didn't notice
20110402 19:38:34< Nephro> um... it created the project file
20110402 19:38:59< Nephro> http://pastebin.com/fFy6jQ5V here it is anyhows
20110402 19:39:05< tschmitz> I thought I checked the output and it said some unpleasant things, but maybe I eventually got it to work
20110402 19:39:23< tschmitz> So is that going to spare me redownloading external_19.zip again?
20110402 19:39:31< Nephro> probably
20110402 19:39:43< tschmitz> All right, thank you
20110402 19:39:46< tschmitz> I'll try it.
20110402 19:39:46< Nephro> but stick to the guide step by step, with this batch file it should work
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20110402 19:42:00< tschmitz> hm, I seem to have misplaced the old .bat file
20110402 19:42:00< tschmitz> where should I put this new one?
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20110402 20:05:05< CIA-89> anonymissimus * r49091 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: 
20110402 20:05:05< CIA-89> Prevent infinite loop when attempting to insert via wesnoth.game_events.on_save a tagname which is already handled by the C++ engine into the saved scenario wml data.
20110402 20:05:05< CIA-89> The tag is ignored and an error message omitted to the console and chat window. (fix for bug #17979)
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20110402 20:31:07< CIA-89> anonymissimus * r49092 /trunk/changelog: changelog entry r49087
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20110402 21:09:52< Upthorn> Damn. I just realized that I seem to have completely misinterpreted part of the task description when I wrote up my Lua AI proposal.
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20110402 21:11:22< Upthorn> oh, perfect timing
20110402 21:11:36< Crab_> hello
20110402 21:11:56< Upthorn> Crab_: did I summon you here, or did you arrive by chance?
20110402 21:12:57< Crab_> no, it was not your summoning ) but I guess that you have experience at finding me online :)
20110402 21:13:35< Upthorn> I just realized that I had completely misunderstood what was meant by a Lua AI standard library in the Lua AI task idea
20110402 21:14:22< Upthorn> I had somehow thought it meant a WML extension to better accommodate the inclusion of custom Lua AI scripts. I'm not sure how I arrived at that conclusion
20110402 21:15:16< Crab_> Upthorn: that idea is valid, too
20110402 21:15:19< Upthorn> But what you meant was a number of premade scripts that would be included with wesnoth for UMC devs to easily make use of
20110402 21:15:25< Crab_> Upthorn: it is, indeed, a part of the task.
20110402 21:15:38< Crab_> Upthorn: the premade scripts are a part, too
20110402 21:15:50< Crab_> Upthorn: but both are important
20110402 21:15:57< Upthorn> Ok.
20110402 21:16:49< Upthorn> I have never done AI work before, so I would expect to need a great deal of assistance in preparing the Lua scripts
20110402 21:17:33< Upthorn> though I suppose a lot could just be ported from AI work that has already been done
20110402 21:18:06< Crab_> the main part is to figure a good set of functions that 'are needed'
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20110402 21:20:34< Crab_> for the ' WML extension to better accommodate the inclusion of custom Lua AI scripts', you should try to find a way to include custom lua ai via era, via scenario -for specific side in era or in scenario.
20110402 21:20:44< Crab_> you'd find that a couple of things are missing
20110402 21:21:33< Upthorn> What comes to my mind when you say "a good set of functions" is exposing all the c++ AI support functions to lua
20110402 21:21:44< Upthorn> so I think I am failing to understand
20110402 21:21:52< Crab_> note that lua already has access to LuaWML
20110402 21:22:26< Crab_> so, info about lots of things like terrain/sides/units are already available to it
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20110402 21:23:22< Upthorn> right
20110402 21:24:07< Upthorn> and I recall a discussion last year about whether the c++ functions should be exposed to Lua or reimplemented natively
20110402 21:24:21< Crab_> yes, there was such a discussions
20110402 21:24:31< Crab_> s/discussions/discussion
20110402 21:25:02< tschmitz> So in my attempt to build Wesnoth, the linker is complaining about the nonexistence of a boost version 1_46_1 library
20110402 21:25:30< tschmitz> is that ... well, is that "supposed" to happen?
20110402 21:25:58< tschmitz> the .libs in external appear to be all version 1_42
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20110402 21:30:00< Upthorn> mine, too
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20110402 21:30:14< Upthorn> but I get no such complaint from the linker
20110402 21:32:19< Upthorn> Crab_: so, the Lua standard AI lib would be premade AI components that can be assembled into a variety of functional AI scripts?
20110402 21:32:38< Crab_> more like a 'framework' than components
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20110402 21:32:51< Crab_> i.e., there should be a simple way to attach 'behaviors' to groups of units
20110402 21:33:08< Upthorn> right.
20110402 21:33:14< Crab_> like 'we want all X to patrol' in one event, and 'we want all X nearer to Z to stop patrolling'
20110402 21:33:19< Upthorn> That's something I was expecting to solve in WML
20110402 21:34:36< Upthorn> though I now see that what I was imagining would not have been dynamic enough
20110402 21:36:04< Upthorn> the idea that I have for solving the problem in WML
20110402 21:36:38< Upthorn> is adding a [group] tag, which would specify and ID and an AI script
20110402 21:37:20< Upthorn> then units could have a group attribute which gets assigned with the ID of the group whose AI they should use
20110402 21:38:01< Upthorn> units without a group would default to the overall side AI
20110402 21:38:26< Crab_> what if unit falls in 2+ groups ?
20110402 21:38:41< Crab_> some mechanism for 'marking' units is required, yes
20110402 21:40:03< Upthorn> can you explain a situation where a unit would be in more than one group?
20110402 21:40:39< Crab_> we want all out units which are in forest, to patrol + we want our assassins to prefer attacking unpoisoned units
20110402 21:40:55< Upthorn> I see.
20110402 21:41:03< Crab_> each behavior is implemented by 1+ candidate actions, they have a priority (say assassins attack is > patrol movement)
20110402 21:41:31< Crab_> also note that some groups are dynamic like "all archers" (including newly recalled/recruited) 
20110402 21:42:05< Crab_> and some are static like "all archers" (but not newly recalled/recruited, only those who are on the field now)
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20110402 21:44:01< Upthorn> my solution to dynamic groups would be to allow events and Lua to modify a unit's groupings, so the dynamic "all archers ever" group would be handled by the WML or Lua assigning archers to the group on recruit
20110402 21:44:28< Upthorn> whereas the static "all archers right now" group would be handled by an event assigning any currently existing archer to the group
20110402 21:45:23< Upthorn> multiple groups can be handled by making the group attribute a [group] subtag with members 1..n
20110402 21:45:33< Upthorn> where n is the priority of the group behavior
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20110402 21:47:02< Upthorn> so instead of group="archer" it'd be [group]    1="archer"    2="forest_patrol" ... [/group]
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20110402 21:48:05< Upthorn> I would have to come up with a solution for resolving groups of the same priority
20110402 21:48:06< Crab_> ' so the dynamic "all archers ever" group would be handled by the WML or Lua assigning archers to the group on recruit' - well, we have standard unit filters - can't we just add a a way to check 'group membership' before the action is actually run ?
20110402 21:48:16< Crab_> 'I would have to come up with a solution for resolving groups of the same priority' - it's handled by RCA
20110402 21:48:30< Crab_> since we attach 'candidate actions' to groups
20110402 21:48:36< Upthorn> ok
20110402 21:48:38< Crab_> and rca has 'score' system to prioritie
20110402 21:49:00< Upthorn> So, already less work than I thought
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20110402 21:51:27< Upthorn> Crab_: I'm not sure what you're saying about standard unit filters. I was already expecting them to be used in assigning groups to newly recruited units
20110402 21:52:01< Upthorn> are you suggesting I could add group membership tagging capability to the standard unit filters?
20110402 21:52:04< Crab_> I mean that, if we store the filter config, we can just rerun it before executing our candidate action
20110402 21:52:13< Upthorn> Ah
20110402 21:52:15< Upthorn> I see
20110402 21:52:17< Crab_> no, the filter is 'passive' thing
20110402 21:52:29< Upthorn> You were suggesting the reverse
20110402 21:52:30< Crab_> something can use the filter to limit the effects of the direct action wml
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20110402 21:52:50< Upthorn> I add standard unit filter tagging capability to the group memberships
20110402 21:52:58< Upthorn> yes?
20110402 21:53:09< Crab_> yes, just support two types of groups...
20110402 21:53:38< Crab_> 'group' which is applied to units matching a filter, which sticks in the unit definition
20110402 21:53:45< Upthorn> Ok.
20110402 21:54:00< Crab_> and group which is applied to units matching the filter 'at this particular moment' which doesn't stick in the unit definition
20110402 21:55:38< Upthorn> when you say Unit definition, you mean, for instance, the definition of Elven Archer, not the definition of Legolas
20110402 21:55:47< Upthorn> right?
20110402 21:56:29< Crab_> the definition of the particular unit, like 'Legolas the elven archer with id="Elven Archer-134"
20110402 21:57:55< Upthorn> Why wouldn't the 'all archers currently available' group stick with "Elven Archer-134" until it is removed?
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20110402 21:58:20< Crab_> that depends on what we want to do
20110402 21:58:46< Crab_> if we want to apply a group to 'all elven archers we have now', it has to stick with Elven Archer-134 .
20110402 21:58:56< Upthorn> ok
20110402 21:59:22< Upthorn> I think you misunderstood my original question about "unit definition" and we're actually agreeing
20110402 22:00:01< Crab_> or, if we want to apply a group 'to all elven archers we have now or will have in the future, while this 'order' is in effect ', it's better to not add this group to elven archer but keep it separate
20110402 22:00:32< Crab_> otherwise you'd face issues like 'that elven archer was transformed into a Vampire Lord - what to do with the groups?'
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20110402 22:00:53< Upthorn> I understand
20110402 22:01:07< Crab_> if group is inside the unit definition of EA-134, I'd make sense to retain it. if group is 'outside', it won't apply to EA-134 since it's not an elven archer anymore
20110402 22:01:24< Crab_> so, basically, groups which 'stick' are 'owned' by unit
20110402 22:01:40< boucman> and back...
20110402 22:01:41< Crab_> and groups which don't stick are not owned by unit
20110402 22:01:56< Upthorn> Right, that makes sense
20110402 22:02:20< Crab_> and the code for applying the groups should just have a yes/no switch
20110402 22:02:27< Crab_> so, the syntax will be (almost) the same
20110402 22:03:06< Upthorn> Right.
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20110402 22:06:52< Upthorn> Okay, so the WML unit groupings are pretty well fleshed out
20110402 22:07:17< Crab_> yes
20110402 22:07:24< Upthorn> I still don't understand what the Lua AI stdlib will involve
20110402 22:07:31< Upthorn> I'm actually a little more confused than before
20110402 22:08:11< Upthorn> because we just conceptually solved in WML one of the things you brought up to be done in Lua
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20110402 22:14:32< Crab_> Upthorn: you'll need code to make it work
20110402 22:14:45< Crab_> Upthorn: and you'd need lua accessors to it, to allow to do it easily from lua, as well
20110402 22:14:56< Crab_> and you'd need a way for lua ai engine to take care of those groups
20110402 22:15:17< Crab_> so, lua-based candidate actions need a way to find a list of units which are 'in group(s)'
20110402 22:15:21< Crab_> like a 'group_filter'
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20110402 22:17:23< Upthorn> ok
20110402 22:17:31< Seiyria> hello all
20110402 22:18:02< Crab_> hi, Seiyria
20110402 22:18:16< Upthorn> I will update my proposal a little later today
20110402 22:18:21< Crab_> Upthorn: so, as you see, your WML-based config needs some lua code to work great.
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20110402 22:19:33< Upthorn> Thanks for the clarification
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20110402 22:23:16< zaroth> what was the C++ way to provide classes a way to be translatable to basic types, e.g. boolean?
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20110402 22:24:02< zaroth> in config.cpp there is something like if (!*this) throw nasty_exception;
20110402 22:25:22< shadowmaster> overriding operator T(), where T is the target type
20110402 22:26:12< zaroth> hm, that means I remembered correctly and it's just not there...
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20110402 22:27:04< zaroth> does it mean that this line checks just for being empty? (I see no config::operator bool() in config.cpp)
20110402 22:27:08< Crab_> zaroth: for config, it's rather special
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20110402 22:27:41< Crab_> zaroth: config uses the safe_bool ideom to allow checking the config for being 'valid/not valid' in boolean context, but not allowing the conversion to bool
20110402 22:27:59< Crab_> because it's not 'conversion' there, but more like a 'is_valid()?' operation
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20110402 22:28:39< shadowmaster> operator config::safe_bool() const
20110402 22:28:49< shadowmaster> er.
20110402 22:28:56< shadowmaster> config::operator safe_bool() const ;)
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20110402 22:36:23< zaroth> you know, as I add them, I recon that maybe a few more debug log messages could be of use in config.cpp
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20110402 22:36:46< zaroth> like dumping the invalid WML
20110402 22:36:56< zaroth> "Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report." <- totally not helpful
20110402 22:37:12< Crab_> zaroth: it's more tricky for that...
20110402 22:37:19< Crab_> zaroth: what do you want to report ? 
20110402 22:38:12< Crab_> zaroth: you have a foo*, which is 0. an attempt was made to do '*foo'. what to report ?
20110402 22:38:26< Soliton> print the WML of the missing child!
20110402 22:38:34< Crab_> Soliton: the missing child has no wml
20110402 22:38:38< zaroth> well, maybe a notification which child is missing?
20110402 22:38:43< Crab_> zaroth: it's too late for that
20110402 22:38:46 * Soliton forgot to add a smiley.
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20110402 22:39:06< Crab_> zaroth: check the code, the config which we've checking is already 'invalid'
20110402 22:39:27< Crab_> zaroth: the checks are possible to do earlier, but at the point "Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report." appears, it's too late
20110402 22:40:09< zaroth> what do you mean by thaaat... ooops
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20110402 22:40:49 * zaroth stares at few thousand lines of emptiness which were supposed to be invalid WML
20110402 22:41:10 * zaroth and a mandatory segfault at the end, of course
20110402 22:41:33< zaroth> all right, it's not that simple, I get it ;-)
20110402 22:41:52< Crab_> it's simple
20110402 22:42:37< zaroth> well, I tried to DBG_CFG << *this
20110402 22:42:45< Crab_> hehe
20110402 22:43:02< zaroth> apparently this generated exceptions one after another
20110402 22:43:08< Crab_> it's more-or-less analoguous to DBG_CFG << *NULL;
20110402 22:43:08< zaroth> after trying to validate itself
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20110402 22:43:29< Crab_> but with more fun things attached
20110402 22:43:39< Crab_> check the following code :        default_config_ = ais.child("default_config");  if (default_config_) { config c = default_config_.child("foo") }
20110402 22:44:03< Crab_> and consider a version of it which is not safe:  default_config_ = ais.child("default_config");  config c = default_config_.child("foo");
20110402 22:44:46< Crab_> the second version would throw a 'Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report.' exception if  'ais' doesn't contain the [default_config] subtag
20110402 22:45:17< Crab_> yet, we only know the part about 'default_config' at the       default_config_ = ais.child("default_config");  line
20110402 22:45:28< Crab_> since it's where we have the child taken from ais
20110402 22:45:34< Crab_> but, this part is totally corect
20110402 22:45:38< Crab_> s/corect/correct
20110402 22:45:56< Crab_> what is required is to check the config for being valid before using it in any way
20110402 22:46:07< Crab_> so, '  default_config_ = ais.child("default_config");  if (default_config_) { config c = default_config_.child("foo") } ' is valid
20110402 22:46:21< Crab_> and  ' default_config_ = ais.child("default_config");  config c = default_config_.child("foo");  ' might lead to 'Mandatory WML child missing yet untested for. Please report.' exception
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20110402 22:46:44< Crab_> yet at the time of the exception, we are doing   "default_config_.child("foo");"
20110402 22:46:55< zaroth> game_config().find_child("multiplayer", "id", campaign_header["first_scenario"]); and this line? it itself won't be throwing any mandatory etc. exceptions, right?
20110402 22:46:56< Crab_> so, no knowledge of the 'history' of default_config_ at that point
20110402 22:47:26< zaroth> just only if it finds no [multiplayer] with id="01_The_Uprooting", right?
20110402 22:47:34< zaroth> and it's later used?
20110402 22:47:42< Crab_> yes, the exception is 'on use'
20110402 22:47:54< zaroth> I get it, thanks
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20110402 22:48:23< Crab_> technically, it's possible to extend check_valid function to take a list of operations which led to check, but it would certainly complicate code, and we'd only learn, in our case 'we were trying to find child 'foo' of an invalid config
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20110402 22:48:45< Crab_> and it's not possible to print the content of 'ais' at this point, since it's not related to the failing operation
20110402 22:49:31< Crab_> and it's not possible to say which child was missing, too - since it's not related to failing operation
20110402 22:49:57< Crab_> the best way to debug is to get a backtrace, and then hop around the call stack until you get to the place which has some sane configs, and see what's in them
20110402 22:51:52< zaroth> by hopping you mean using gdb in some magical way?
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20110402 22:52:22< zaroth> or just seeing which functions are these on the backtrace, recompiling with debug statements in them?
20110402 22:52:25< Crab_> zaroth: http://inside.mines.edu/fs_home/lwiencke/elab/gdb/gdb_43.html#SEC43
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20110402 22:52:57< Crab_> zaroth: just regular variable inspection, but not the variables in the failing frame, but somewhat more to the top of the stack
20110402 22:53:22< zaroth> that's what I meant by magical way
20110402 22:53:28< zaroth> I don
20110402 22:53:37< zaroth> I don't yet have an idea how to change a variable scope in gdb
20110402 22:53:44< zaroth> but I hope your linked document will explain that :-)
20110402 22:55:37< Crab_> basically, with my earlier example: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1196708
20110402 22:55:49< Crab_> we'd want to hop to frame 3 and see the value of ais
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20110402 22:56:18< Crab_> because  'default_config_ = ais.child("default_config")' origin part is there
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20110402 23:05:54< Nephro> Crab_, hi! Was working on the code today, started to read more in deptj aspect.hpp... I thought I understood the meaning of valid_*_ and recalculate, but now I got a little confused. I thought that the valid_*_ were used to determine whether we have an aspect in C++ or Fai, but it seems that there something else. Together with recalculate I figured, that valid must decide, whether can we use the cached value or no. So if we have aggression that changes
20110402 23:05:54< Nephro>  each turn, but we access it more than once a turn, we recalculate it only once in the beginning of each turn. The invalidation happens in the generic_event_handler, so if we have valid_lua_ == false in our get method, we recalculate(that is rerun the code). I am just asking to see whether I understood correctly. I also didn't get the meaning of redeploy() and who uses it.
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20110402 23:07:12< Crab_> TRUE - 'Together with recalculate I figured, that valid must decide, whether can we use the cached value or no'
20110402 23:07:45< Crab_> ALMOST TRUE - 'if we have aggression that changes each turn, but we access it more than once a turn, we recalculate it only once in the beginning of each turn.' - we recalculate on first access
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20110402 23:09:25< Crab_> redeploy is not used fully, but its semantics: our position in AI component hierarchy has not changed, but our config changed, please update the state.
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20110402 23:09:32< Crab_> so, it's now called one on create
20110402 23:09:35< Crab_> hi, knotwork
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20110402 23:12:27< Crab_> Nephro: so, you're more-or-less correct
20110402 23:12:45< Crab_> if we have all is_validXXX as false, we recalculate
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20110402 23:13:15< Crab_> if we have at least one true, and in the same format, we use it
20110402 23:13:54< Crab_> if we have at least one validXXX as true, and it is not in the same format (i.e. we have valid_ c++ value but we want lua value now and valid_lua_ is false), we convert from it to the required representation and cache the conversion value (valid_lua_ would become true, too)
20110402 23:14:01< Crab_> so, on next access, we'd use cache
20110402 23:14:12< Crab_> and we have 1 cache per representation
20110402 23:16:36< timotei> Crab_: I've made the ideas page to automatically include the students who didn't send the proposals to google, thus you no more need the burden of tagging individually each proposal who sent it :P
20110402 23:16:41< timotei> Crab_: hope I did it right
20110402 23:17:10< Crab_> great. but I don't see how it can be done, actually )
20110402 23:17:18< Crab_> as we don't know the link ids of the students...
20110402 23:17:39< Crab_> so, someone would need to add a proper link to soc application somehow
20110402 23:17:42< Nephro> Thanks, Crab_... I know I promised not to ask anymore questions, but the further I go, the more questions keep stacking up :)
20110402 23:17:45< Crab_> so, how you did it ?
20110402 23:18:01< timotei> Crab_: well, I've just excluded from the list the students who don't have the Soc Application + link in their proposals
20110402 23:18:04< Crab_> Nephro: it's ok, at least you're asking the right questions )
20110402 23:18:05< timotei> proposal*
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20110402 23:20:07< Crab_> timotei: ah, yes, now I see what you've did. yes, it's a good thing
20110402 23:20:28< Crab_> we'd still need to mark the pages, but this particular list would be updated automatically
20110402 23:20:36< timotei> yeah.
20110402 23:21:13< timotei> I like the dpl thingy. I didn't think I could do something like this, without writing directly php code xD
20110402 23:21:53< Crab_> you've just (ab)using the wiki engine
20110402 23:21:56< Crab_> )
20110402 23:22:29< timotei> yeah
20110402 23:22:37< timotei> well, I'm out
20110402 23:22:38< timotei> good night
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20110402 23:42:20< zaroth> Crab_: hardcoding LoW campaign path in one place in the hack code is probably ( ;-) ) something you won't appreciate, but I really would like to have it working asap
20110402 23:42:45< Crab_> zaroth: hacks are welcome
20110402 23:42:52< zaroth> Crab_: could you have a look at this? http://paste.kde.org/8802/
20110402 23:42:54< Crab_> zaroth: at this point )
20110402 23:42:56< Crab_> ok
20110402 23:43:30< zaroth> i already have everything i need to know
20110402 23:43:36< zaroth> and I'm trying to reload the campaign
20110402 23:43:51< zaroth> failing miserably so far, this is my best try
20110402 23:44:04< zaroth> but still getting 20110402 23:42:05 error config: Macro/file 'TURNS' is missing at campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/01_The_Uprooting.cfg:19 included from campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/_main.cfg:33
20110402 23:44:17< Crab_> zaroth: you're doing ok
20110402 23:44:29< Crab_> zaroth: note that when wesnoth's data is loaded, we load all stuff
20110402 23:44:38< Crab_> zaroth: this includes data/core/macros, in particular
20110402 23:44:44< Crab_> and a lot of other 'generic' stuff
20110402 23:44:47< zaroth> that's why I copy the game_config()
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20110402 23:44:56< zaroth> in the tmp() (to avoid reloading everything)
20110402 23:45:06< zaroth> and then I try to add reloaded LoW on top of that
20110402 23:45:13< zaroth> but it still crashes with this message
20110402 23:45:13< Crab_> but, to load a campaign, you need to have some things available for the parser
20110402 23:46:07< Crab_> you can't load stuff which uses core macros without telling the preprocessor 'process those core macros first'
20110402 23:46:23< Crab_> see data/_main.cfg
20110402 23:46:49< Crab_> note {english.cfg} {themes/} {core/}
20110402 23:46:50< zaroth> you mean something like game_config::config_cache_transaction?
20110402 23:47:35< zaroth> where they do this game_config::config_cache_transaction tsc; load_from_dir("data/"); tsc.lock();
20110402 23:47:53< Crab_> no, that's more like the exception guard
20110402 23:48:03< zaroth> does it mean that the macros will be valid for every next loaded WML?
20110402 23:48:05< Crab_> but note that the code you've pasted loads the entire data directory
20110402 23:48:13< Crab_> so, it loads those macroses
20110402 23:48:27< Crab_> macroses influence the state of the preprocessor
20110402 23:48:34< Crab_> basically, it's like some 'include' files
20110402 23:48:49< Crab_> you need them processed 'before' your campaign can be processed
20110402 23:49:16< Crab_> also note that you don't need to target _main.cfg
20110402 23:49:22< Crab_> you can target a containing directory
20110402 23:49:34< Crab_> it'll be processed from _main.cfg, if it exists
20110402 23:49:49< Crab_> so, to solve your issue, get data/core loaded
20110402 23:49:58< Crab_> it might be enough
20110402 23:51:00< Crab_> for the GSoC, you'd need to reorganize things so you'd have clear dependencies on what should be loaded for the scenario to load correctly
20110402 23:51:28< Crab_> but, for now, just hack in the loading of everything that is needed for it to 'compile' from the PoV of wesnoth's preprocessor
20110402 23:51:38< zaroth> but data/core doesn't contain campaigns
20110402 23:52:25< zaroth> so if I load data/core first, and then my campaign, it will be just the same
20110402 23:52:27< Crab_> zaroth: yes, but you need to load {data/core} {your_campaign}
20110402 23:52:33< Crab_> at the same time, that is
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20110402 23:52:45< zaroth> ah, in the WML you mean?
20110402 23:52:50< Crab_> so, when loading your campaign, the preprocessor state will include all the macro definitions made in {data/core}
20110402 23:52:55< Crab_> I can suggest an easy hack to you
20110402 23:53:02< Crab_> just create a .cfg file in data, named low-hack.cfg
20110402 23:53:19< Crab_> and make it include {core} and {campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere}
20110402 23:53:29< Crab_> and reload that low-hack.cfg
20110402 23:53:50< Crab_> that will make the preprocessor reload all that stuff in 1 go
20110402 23:54:11< Crab_> zaroth: note http://pastebin.com/inVJUCcp
20110402 23:54:27< Crab_> so, you can see that ./core/macros/utils.cfg:42 is the location of the missing define
20110402 23:54:30< zaroth> I just added it within #ifdef WESNOTH-LOW for now
20110402 23:55:02< Crab_> ok. it's better to invent a HACK_MODE_ON preprocessor define for that :)
20110402 23:55:13< Crab_> name it, say, something like  STANDALONE
20110402 23:55:25< Crab_> or you can use the low-hack.cfg route
20110402 23:55:41< Crab_> whatever you prefer. or you can use c++ to make it load several things in order
20110402 23:55:43< zaroth> hmmm... you're right
20110402 23:56:13< zaroth> btw, how do I refer to the core data directory in wml?
20110402 23:56:20< zaroth> ~ was the user directory, and core?
20110402 23:57:27< Crab_> it's within data
20110402 23:57:34< Crab_> so, the same prefix as campaigns
20110402 23:59:07< zaroth> right, I just put {data/core} mindlessly instead of {core} ;-)
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--- Log closed Sun Apr 03 00:00:30 2011