--- Log opened Mon Apr 11 00:00:36 2011
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20110411 00:21:50< zaroth> fendrin: my experience with writing this mp campaign hack led me to simple conclusion: why do we need SP code at all? 
20110411 00:22:08< zaroth> is there anything SP does that MP couldn't after some improvements?
20110411 00:22:56< zaroth> that led me to an idea of just improving MP code to the point when it has the same features as stricte SP code
20110411 00:23:21< zaroth> and then dropping the SP code altogether
20110411 00:23:24< zaroth> instead of trying to merge these two
20110411 00:24:02< zaroth> it would provide a graceful transition between our implementation stages, not breaking anything on the way
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20110411 00:24:42< zaroth> (of course, current SP code would provide me many useful and precious examples on how things can be done)
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20110411 00:25:20< zaroth> but the more I think about it, the less sense the "unification through merging" makes to me
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20110411 00:25:38< zaroth> and I like my current idea better
20110411 00:26:04< zaroth> any comments from any devs are welcome, this all will be soon put nicely on my wiki page(s)
20110411 00:26:58< zaroth> Crab_: though probably by the time you're back I'll have the wiki updated, I'd also like you to read that
20110411 00:28:10< fendrin> zaroth: That are exactly my thoughts. We could just use a local multiplayer game for the single player campaigns.
20110411 00:28:17< zaroth> Ivanovic: mordante: this realisation made creating my goal-driven timely a *lot* easier, I hope you will like it ;-)
20110411 00:28:25< zaroth> s/timely/timeline/
20110411 00:28:55< zaroth> fendrin: then your ideas have struck me today at full force ;-)
20110411 00:29:13< zaroth> I could finally see the Grail at the end of the road
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20110411 00:30:07< zaroth> even if the road is winding and rocky
20110411 00:30:55< zaroth> well, enough of this metaphores ;-)
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20110411 00:32:04< zaroth> fendrin, I guess you have had the same vision then: 1. introduce [scenario_metadata] tag 2. make things from [campaign] work in [scenario_metadata] 3. make a translator tool for that 4. scrap the [campaign] ;-)
20110411 00:32:28< zaroth> 5. add fun new things to [scenario_metadata]
20110411 00:32:30< zaroth> ;-)
20110411 00:33:36< zaroth> this above with remark that [scenario_metadata] will be designed to work with current MP code from the beginning and won't break SP code
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20110411 00:34:12< zaroth> maps without it will be treated just like before, as single mp scenarios, thanks to sane defaults
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20110411 00:35:24< zaroth> mordante: heh, once you have it, it seems that having a timeline and taskline actually helps a lot ;-)
20110411 00:35:42< zaroth> before it didn't seem so useful and important...
20110411 00:36:29< zaroth> anyway, fendrin, if you have any other comments to what I've just described here, please state them
20110411 00:37:07< zaroth> it may seem all to you as obvious, but have forgiveness to the young Jedi then ;-)
20110411 00:37:10 * zaroth heads off to wiki
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20110411 00:42:20< fendrin> zaroth: The [scenario_metadata] could be much more generic.
20110411 00:42:44< zaroth> fendrin: that's what the 5. point is all about ;-)
20110411 00:43:06< fendrin> maybe [addon_metadate] which includes dependencies.
20110411 00:43:20< zaroth> unless you mean genericizing current [campaign] stuff
20110411 00:43:40< fendrin> Well, [campaign] supports extra_defines=
20110411 00:43:52< fendrin> That could be used to support dependencies.
20110411 00:44:52< zaroth> by the way, I don't really see the point in having both define= and extra_defines=
20110411 00:44:58< zaroth> couldn't they be just defines= ?
20110411 00:46:22< zaroth> I have to brush up my config parser infrastructure, to get an idea of how avoiding of preloading stuff could be done
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20110411 00:46:53< zaroth> it currently seems to be only done due to preprocessor and IMHO that's kind of ugly
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20110411 00:47:49< zaroth> but I'm not sure how easy would be a (probably needed) modification to config parser
20110411 00:48:32< zaroth> hmm... it needs thinking it over
20110411 00:48:41< zaroth> but at least now I see the direction :D
20110411 00:49:26< zaroth> regarding [addon_metadata], I don't really thing scenario header is a place to put that...
20110411 00:49:42< zaroth> in my opinion of package dependencies, packages should depend on packages
20110411 00:49:48< zaroth> i.e. add-ons on add-ons
20110411 00:49:58< zaroth> s/opinion/idea/
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20110411 00:50:24< zaroth> not package contents on package contents, that kind of makes the point of having it packaged moot :-)
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20110411 00:51:16< zaroth> and AFAIK we already have add-ons dependencies?
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20110411 00:56:08< fendrin> zaroth: for them to get downloaded.
20110411 00:56:47< fendrin> Not for inclusion.
20110411 00:57:28< shadowmaster> The add-ons dependency system is still rather crude.
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20110411 00:57:42< zaroth> Ah... I see your point now
20110411 00:58:03< zaroth> however, it could be solved using current system and #defines
20110411 00:58:44< zaroth> well... thanks for the suggestion, I'll think it over a bit more
20110411 00:58:57< fendrin> zaroth: Yes, and you can solve your dependencies with the extra_defines=
20110411 00:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 194 bugs, 309 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110411 01:00:37< Qbunia> hey guys how i can get lider in game?
20110411 01:00:49< Qbunia> i mean is there any function for htis?
20110411 01:01:12< zaroth> Qbunia: team::get_leader() or something similar
20110411 01:01:19< zaroth> it will surely be in team.hpp
20110411 01:01:29< Qbunia> k thx
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20110411 01:03:36< epyon> !seen Crab_
20110411 01:06:17< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110411 01:06:17< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 15h 20m ago.  14h 56m ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
20110411 01:06:32< shadowmaster> gods, Crab_ too?
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20110411 01:13:01< Qbunia> hmm 
20110411 01:13:09< Qbunia> zaroth: there is no get_leader ;/ 
20110411 01:13:11< zaroth> shadowmaster: write a bot which will nag: "get a real IRC client!"
20110411 01:14:33< zaroth> Qbunia: oh, you're right, I confused it with have_leader()
20110411 01:14:51< epyon> ok, so neither Crab_ nor mordante are here?
20110411 01:14:56< epyon> fendrin, ping?
20110411 01:15:25< Qbunia> zaroth: thought  i will get that leader not only get info about if he exisst or not ;/
20110411 01:15:33< zaroth> however, to give you at least pointer in right direction (since devs are probably mostly out of here now), status table in menu_events.cpp needs to grab leader image
20110411 01:15:43< Qbunia> zaroth: i need to get te *unit of leader
20110411 01:15:54< zaroth> you may want to check out where it gets the image from, for that it needs the unit type
20110411 01:16:06< fendrin> epyon: pong
20110411 01:16:16< Qbunia> lolz 
20110411 01:16:24< Qbunia> how iam supposed to get there form
20110411 01:16:32< Qbunia> get_readonly_context(L).current_team().
20110411 01:17:37< Qbunia> nvm i will pick easier function 
20110411 01:17:50< Qbunia> what means function: get_leader_value?
20110411 01:18:06< zaroth> Qbunia: well, if you have no idea how you can use the information from another function getting the same info you need, I guess I can't help you.
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20110411 01:20:15< Qbunia> i see
20110411 01:27:42< Qbunia> Nephro: mmm have u ever run lua-ai.cfg scenario ?
20110411 01:27:47< Qbunia> Nephro: iam having some problems 
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20110411 01:47:53< automagic> ANyone here?
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20110411 02:56:42< AI0867> fendrin: you're aware the the editor branch doesn't compile, mainly due to a whole lot of duplicate code?
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20110411 03:03:42< fendrin> AI0867: douplicate?
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20110411 03:05:38< AI0867> src/editor/action/mouse/../../editor_display.hpp:49: error: invalid initialization of reference of type ‘const std::multimap<map_location, display::overlay, std::less<map_location>, std::allocator<std::pair<const map_location, display::overlay> > >&’ from expression of type ‘const std::multimap<map_location, editor::editor_map::overlay, std::less<map_location>, std::allocator<std::pair<const map_location, editor::editor_map::overlay> > >’
20110411 03:05:51< fendrin> AI0867: hmmm
20110411 03:05:56< AI0867> note the display::overlay and editor::editor_map::overlay
20110411 03:07:06< fendrin> AI0867: Ah yes. I must have commited code that was not meant to. Sadly I don't have a compiling version local at the moment either. Give me 20 more minutes and I will have fixed it up.
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20110411 04:32:18< epyon> heh, parsed ^^
20110411 04:33:56< Espreon> Hmmm?
20110411 04:35:26< epyon> Espreon, just managed to parse in Lua a subset of WML
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20110411 04:36:09< Espreon> Kewl.
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20110411 06:45:59< CIA-82> espreon * r49176 /trunk/po/wesnoth-units/ang@latin.po: Updated the Old English translation.
20110411 06:47:56< Espreon> AI0867: The Dutch translation has some broken markup in the tips.
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20110411 06:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 195 bugs, 310 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110411 07:14:34< Espreon> Oh wow, a Village Elder takes on a frame of the Pillager's defense animation when defending.
20110411 07:14:48< Aethaeryn> Cool. Magic.
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20110411 08:10:36< zaroth> hello
20110411 08:11:00< zaroth> are there plans to integrate khalifate into trunk and do a release before gsoc students start meddling with trunk?
20110411 08:11:35< Espreon> noy: ^
20110411 08:12:53< zaroth> I'm asking before I want to start implementing some of my ideas before official GSoC coding start date
20110411 08:13:07< zaroth> and if a release is planned, I need to plan accordingly not to break things too much ;-)
20110411 08:14:26< zaroth> s/asking before I/asking because I/
20110411 08:16:33< zaroth> (I assume there won't be any releases during the summer just as it was with previous GSoCs)
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20110411 09:41:29< zaroth> Ivanovic: you're probably the one who could answer this ^
20110411 09:41:39< zaroth> also, please take a look at my melange proposal when you have time
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20110411 09:47:59< Ivanovic> zaroth: there are plans to include the khalifate once the are ready
20110411 09:48:06< Ivanovic> and regarding when to release the next version: not sure yet
20110411 09:48:26< Ivanovic> moin, btw
20110411 09:49:03< Ivanovic> and there will be releases during the summer, as there were with previous gsocs, too
20110411 09:49:18< Ivanovic> those will just be normal development releases
20110411 09:52:31< zaroth> Ivanovic: weren't 1.9.0 released after the summer?
20110411 09:52:40< zaroth> s/weren't/wasn't
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20110411 09:53:59< shadowmaster> shikadibot: dirlog /tags
20110411 09:53:59< shikadibot> shadowmaster: Web interface URL to logs for dir tags: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/tags?view=log
20110411 09:54:42< Ivanovic> the 1.9 series simply had not too many releases at all
20110411 09:54:51< Ivanovic> i think there will be more over this summer though
20110411 09:56:07< zaroth> shadowmaster: I was right then, 18th August was already a suggested 'pencils down' date AFAIR ;-)
20110411 09:56:47< shadowmaster> The situation is quite different right now.
20110411 09:56:49< zaroth> Ivanovic: when you read the forum topic linked in melange, you'll probably get the idea of what/when release I mean
20110411 09:59:26< shadowmaster> For an hypothetical example, there could be a nasty bug in 1.9.5 allowing remote hosts to take control of your machine and use it to concert a Distributed Denial of Service attack. I think we'd not think it twice before releasing 1.9.6 once that hypothetical bug is fixed.
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20110411 10:02:02< zaroth> well... how does it make the *current* situation different? Does it mean you'd not release it during the previous summer?
20110411 10:02:05< zaroth> Oh wait...
20110411 10:02:18< zaroth> During last summer there were no previous releases to fix, I get it :P
20110411 10:02:34< Ivanovic> during the last summer there was no release simply because of the "heavy coding time" for all devs that follows a new stable release was active
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20110411 10:13:37< zaroth> shadowmaster: I posted two topics regarding my GSoC ideas in the forum. I wasn't sure if they were in they right sections, after all, they are all "Ideas"
20110411 10:13:57< zaroth> however, I felt I could get more useful feedback in the sections I posted
20110411 10:14:00< shadowmaster> I noticed.
20110411 10:14:21< zaroth> if you strongly feel that it should be moved to Ideas anyway, please do so
20110411 10:14:59< shadowmaster> I have no idea myself, since developers/contributors never use the forums to organize ideas. You are currently treading the unknown territory called "userland".
20110411 10:15:41< zaroth> well, I'm definitely not using it to "organize" it, I have my wiki page for that ;-)
20110411 10:15:52< zaroth> I made forum topics just for feedback
20110411 10:16:24< zaroth> (which may eventually cause me to change my organized ideas)
20110411 10:18:07< zaroth> and regarding wilder(user)lands, I hope not too many wild trolls will appear ;-)
20110411 10:19:55< shadowmaster> The banhammer deals impact damage, which is pretty effective agiainst them.
20110411 10:19:57< zaroth> (BTW, if not for that, for what did I get my shiny purple "SoC applicant" title for ?!)
20110411 10:20:28< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49177 /trunk/ (21 files in 20 dirs): updated Lithuanian translation
20110411 10:20:51< zaroth> s/for what/what/
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20110411 12:52:46< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 3h ago.  1d 2h ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
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20110411 16:35:42< Qbunia> !see Crab
20110411 16:35:57< Qbunia> :| how i can see when last time some1 logged?
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20110411 16:37:51< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110411 16:37:51< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 6h ago.  1d 6h ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
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20110411 16:41:14< Qbunia> k thx
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20110411 16:52:15< esr> Any artists here? I have a small but worthy non-Wesnoth project needing help?
20110411 16:52:28< esr> s/help?/help./
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20110411 18:31:02< Sytyi> servus
20110411 18:31:26< timotei> hi Sytyi :P
20110411 18:32:15< Sytyi> timotei: hi :)
20110411 18:33:37< timotei> I see it's the first year when all proposals where submitted to google
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20110411 18:39:49< Disruption> Hi Devs ^^
20110411 18:39:54< timotei> hi Disruption :)
20110411 18:40:05< Disruption> Hi timotei :)
20110411 18:43:27< fendrin> hello
20110411 18:43:57< Sytyi> wesbot: seen mordante
20110411 18:43:57< wesbot> Sytyi: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 23h 38m ago.  23h 37m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20110411 18:57:17< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110411 18:57:17< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 9h ago.  1d 8h ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
20110411 18:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 197 bugs, 310 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110411 19:01:55< nephx> MGoods|RangerM, he was here with a different nick I think
20110411 19:02:01< nephx> more underscores :)
20110411 19:03:46< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab__
20110411 19:03:46< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: Sorry, I don't know of Crab__.
20110411 19:03:51< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab___
20110411 19:03:51< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: Person, who 2d 20h ago used nick Crab___, last spoke 2d 20h ago.  2d 20h ago as Crab____ they left with the message:
20110411 19:03:55< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab____
20110411 19:03:55< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: The person with the nick Crab____ last spoke 2d 20h ago.  2d 20h ago they left with the message:
20110411 19:03:59< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab_____
20110411 19:03:59< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: Sorry, I don't know of Crab_____.
20110411 19:04:05< MGoods|RangerM> doubt he had more than that
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20110411 19:04:12< MGoods|RangerM> would be silly :P
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20110411 19:08:44< zaroth> shadowmaster: I actually found this forum topic really helpful
20110411 19:09:12< zaroth> trying to explain non-developers what I'm going to do made me think about few design problems I haven't thought before
20110411 19:09:34< zaroth> so the quest trip to the userland is currently a successful adventure :-)
20110411 19:17:37< zaroth> fendrin: I see you online in the forum, if you're by chance reading my topic, please refresh - I just posted a lengthy reply ;-)
20110411 19:18:07< fendrin> zaroth: Pleas give me a link.
20110411 19:18:18< zaroth> fendrin: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33540
20110411 19:18:31< zaroth> that's my trip to the userland, as shadowmaster put it
20110411 19:18:55< Gambit> :|
20110411 19:19:28< zaroth> Gambit: something's wrong?
20110411 19:19:46< Gambit> I didn't know userland was a special place is all.
20110411 19:20:15< Gambit> shadowmaster: You're too cynical.
20110411 19:20:26< zaroth> well, me neither till today's morning ;-)
20110411 19:22:29< zaroth> well, I was kind of envious of timotei's Eclipse feedback topic, so I made my own, where also *I* can get some feedback for my ideas, ha!
20110411 19:22:42< timotei> :)
20110411 19:22:59< timotei> zaroth: well, at least you'll surely get feedback, not like mine :(
20110411 19:23:07< timotei> well, unless 1.9.x goes stable
20110411 19:24:01< fendrin> zaroth: hmmm
20110411 19:24:38< zaroth> fendrin: I did realize something's wrong with the MP loading cycle while I was writing it and it needs a bit rethinking
20110411 19:24:46< fendrin> zaroth: I thought every addon (campaign/mpcampaign/era/whatever) would get it's own [metadata] tag thing.
20110411 19:25:04< fendrin> But now it's every scenario.
20110411 19:25:23< zaroth> fendrin: if it's implicit in most cases, whom does it hurt?
20110411 19:25:45< timotei> hey, Espreon changed it's avatar! :D
20110411 19:25:49< timotei> his*
20110411 19:26:09< Gambit> The first pronoun is accurate too :P
20110411 19:26:17< fendrin> timotei: It's from Duck and Cover
20110411 19:26:30< timotei> fendrin: thanks:D
20110411 19:26:40< zaroth> and I hope UMC creators will embrace the idea of configurable thingies
20110411 19:27:10< timotei> shadowmaster: btw, I think that the "Development Team" username should have it's location on #wesnoth-dev rather than on #wesnoth :)
20110411 19:27:31< zaroth> (which is the biggest advantage of having the metadata for every scenario)
20110411 19:29:21< zaroth> but, as I said, I'm open to suggestions
20110411 19:29:37< zaroth> what functionality would you see in the global add-on [metadata] tag?
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20110411 19:36:08-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 197 bugs, 310 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110411 19:36:08-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Mon Apr 11 19:00:02 2011]
20110411 19:36:08[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20110411 19:36:08[ 5EXACG1HJ      ] [ elias          ] [ Johannes13    ] [ Sirp     ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ ABCD           ] [ Elvish_Pillage2] [ knotwork      ] [ Smar     ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ AI0867         ] [ eoc            ] [ koan          ] [ Soliton  ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ akzfowl        ] [ epyon          ] [ lobby         ] [ stikonas ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ apoi_          ] [ erl            ] [ loonybot      ] [ Sytyi    ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ Appleman1234   ] [ Espreon        ] [ loonycyborg   ] [ Tigge    ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ automagic      ] [ esr            ] [ LordNasty     ] [ timotei  ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ beetlenaut     ] [ ettin_         ] [ Max20010      ] [ tschmitz ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ champ          ] [ fendrin        ] [ mcsmash       ] [ tschmitz_] 
20110411 19:36:08[ chris|         ] [ fstltna        ] [ MeccaGod      ] [ Upthorn  ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ CIA-82         ] [ Gambit         ] [ MGoods|RangerM] [ vcap     ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ clanehin       ] [ GeorgeSebastian] [ monochromatic ] [ vjoe     ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ Crendgrim      ] [ Greywhind      ] [ negusnyul     ] [ Vorpal   ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ crimson_penguin] [ harbin         ] [ nephx         ] [ wesbot   ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ dariuss        ] [ Ingmar         ] [ noy           ] [ yann     ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ dayoung        ] [ isaac_         ] [ Qbunia        ] [ zaroth   ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ deekay         ] [ Ivanovic       ] [ Rhonda        ] [ zookeeper] 
20110411 19:36:08[ Disruption     ] [ iwaim___       ] [ shadowmaster  ] 
20110411 19:36:08[ eleazzaar      ] [ janebot        ] [ shikadibot    ] 
20110411 19:36:08-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 74 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 74 normal]
20110411 19:36:13-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20110411 19:36:18< zaroth> I actually planned to convert the creation screen to GUI2
20110411 19:36:26< zaroth> and use some cool ideas I had
20110411 19:36:48< zaroth> but once I saw, how much time did the little dialog I already did for wesnoth tak
20110411 19:36:49< zaroth> take
20110411 19:37:00< zaroth> I reduced this tasks' priority to Wesnoth
20110411 19:37:04< zaroth> s/Wesnoth/medium/
20110411 19:37:19-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 79 secs
20110411 19:37:28< zaroth> since I prefer for my goals to be realistic ;-)
20110411 19:37:34< Gambit> Okay well I have to go make lunch. Good luck with it.
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20110411 19:37:59< zaroth> however, after the gsoc I don't plan to leave the dev team, so your ideas will be very welcome once I eventually get to improving the UI :-)
20110411 19:40:19< CIA-82> anonymissimus * r49179 /trunk/projectfiles/ (CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp VC9/wesnoth.vcproj): project files update
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20110411 19:40:53< zaroth> Gambit: if some miracles happen and I manage to do all my high priority tasks before my deadline (which is a bit earlier than the normal GSoC one due to my exams in August), I may even start doing that during the GSoC
20110411 19:41:07< zaroth> so please, don't throw your ideas away, store them in a safe place ;-)
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20110411 19:54:11< timotei> zaroth, Gambit : for example in a persisten variable :P
20110411 19:55:08< Sytyi> mordante : I'll be back in 1.5 an hour
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20110411 19:56:29< mordante> servus
20110411 19:56:46< zaroth> by the way, could somebody fill me in why Anonymissimus brought up the whiteboard in my topic?
20110411 19:56:51< zaroth> servus mordante!
20110411 19:56:59< mordante> servus zaroth 
20110411 20:02:40< timotei> zaroth: I for one didn't got what exactly he was refering to
20110411 20:02:52< timotei> maybe he was talking about usability?
20110411 20:02:54< timotei> IDK
20110411 20:02:55< timotei> hi mordante  :)
20110411 20:03:03< mordante> hi timotei 
20110411 20:03:04< timotei> mordante: sorry for not responding last night
20110411 20:03:14< timotei> I was/am on proposal writing rampage and can't stop :P
20110411 20:03:19< mordante> no problem timotei 
20110411 20:03:23< timotei> mordante: I can give you the link with the list again
20110411 20:03:25< timotei> if you want
20110411 20:03:43< timotei> mordante: http://pastebin.com/45DvX0gB
20110411 20:04:24< mordante> timotei, would be nice to get a fresh list without the 'silly' errors
20110411 20:04:31< timotei> oh
20110411 20:04:41< mordante> no real hurry
20110411 20:04:42< timotei> ok, well, doing a full rebuild then :)
20110411 20:04:52< timotei> since anonnimisimus updated the solution
20110411 20:04:56< timotei> ok
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20110411 20:06:03< mordante> zaroth, the goal of the MP/SP unification is indeed to have one playercontroller so SP will be a special version of MP
20110411 20:06:23< mordante> zaroth, good to see you see the benefit of a timeline 
20110411 20:06:35< zaroth> mordante: are you referring to my moment of enlightement at midnight? ;-)
20110411 20:06:49< mordante> zaroth, yes, reading the log ;-)
20110411 20:07:03< mordante> epyon, I'm here now
20110411 20:07:33< zaroth> mordante: yes, thanks to trying to put tasks on the timeline, I dropped plans of trying to write GUI2 for MP creation screen during the GSoC as a must-be-done task
20110411 20:07:41< zaroth> but I guess you'll read this in log as well :P
20110411 20:08:36< mordante> zaroth, yes, like I aid yesterday I rather have a realistic timeline, instead of optimistic and unrealistic
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20110411 20:09:11< Qbunia> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110411 20:09:11< wesbot> Qbunia: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 10h ago.  1d 9h ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
20110411 20:11:26< mordante> zaroth, the featurism is not a real problem, I saw not useless things, just a summer of code is short
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20110411 20:55:57< mordante> automagic, around?
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20110411 21:01:57< Soliton> zaroth: note that a windows build is one command on wesnoth.org away.
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20110411 21:03:43< timotei> heh, just 16 warnings now :D
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20110411 21:05:19< timotei> mordante: here you go: http://pastebin.com/u8qb3dzD
20110411 21:06:27< CIA-82> timotei * r49180 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/liblua.vcproj: Add some extra preprocessor defines to disable some silly warnings
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20110411 21:06:49< mordante> thanks timotei hope to find time tonight (well who am I joking, goes back to reading GSoC proposals)
20110411 21:07:00< timotei> :P
20110411 21:07:06< timotei> no problem :)
20110411 21:09:32< vjoe> Soliton: are you familiar with the code for the map editor?
20110411 21:09:46< Soliton> nope.
20110411 21:09:52< Soliton> fendrin should be.
20110411 21:10:18< vjoe> hm
20110411 21:10:26< vjoe> hey fendrin, are you around?
20110411 21:10:27< vjoe> thanks Soliton 
20110411 21:10:49< fendrin> vjoe: hi
20110411 21:10:55< vjoe> hey
20110411 21:11:05< vjoe> what is the context of a map?
20110411 21:11:15< fendrin> The map_context class?
20110411 21:11:24< vjoe> oh, i will just check it then
20110411 21:11:41< vjoe> thanks
20110411 21:11:58< fendrin> Are you sure that is what you are looking for?
20110411 21:12:11< vjoe> nop, but it wont hurt to learn a new clas
20110411 21:12:14< vjoe> class*
20110411 21:12:21< vjoe> eheh
20110411 21:12:22< fendrin> Sure.
20110411 21:12:31< vjoe> i will ask you more questions if I have them 
20110411 21:12:54< vjoe> yeah, I think this is what I was looking for
20110411 21:12:54< vjoe> !
20110411 21:13:09< vjoe> at least it has some relevant stuff
20110411 21:13:23< vjoe> btw fendrin did u check my application on the gsoc website?
20110411 21:13:32< vjoe> some people replied with their real names, i have no idea who they are
20110411 21:13:33< vjoe> :s
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20110411 21:13:59< timotei> vjoe: https://gna.org/project/memberlist.php?group=wesnoth
20110411 21:14:17< vjoe> oh
20110411 21:14:18< vjoe> thanks timotei !
20110411 21:14:32< vjoe> ahh
20110411 21:14:35< vjoe> it was mordante 
20110411 21:15:08< timotei> vjoe: but the dev who comment, are: Fabian Muller (fendrin), Jeremy Rosen(boucman), Nils Kneuper (Ivanovic), Mark de Weaver (mordante) and Iurii Chernyi(Crab_)
20110411 21:15:12< vjoe> and crab too :P
20110411 21:15:15< timotei> ops. Wever*
20110411 21:15:27< vjoe> yep
20110411 21:15:33< vjoe> they are the mentors i think
20110411 21:15:35< mordante> vjoe, you were looking for me?
20110411 21:15:43< Ivanovic> timotei: don't forget that noy also reviews stuff but does not always leave public comments
20110411 21:15:45< Sytyi> mordante: hi
20110411 21:15:50< vjoe> mordante: nop, I was just wondering who Mark was
20110411 21:15:58< vjoe> sorry if I disturbed you
20110411 21:16:04< Ivanovic> (yeah, we try that as many of us review as many proposals as possible)
20110411 21:16:50< vjoe> so fendrin 
20110411 21:17:05< timotei> Ivanovic: did you manage to go through all proposals?>)
20110411 21:17:12< Ivanovic> sure
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20110411 21:17:16< mordante> in fact I reviewed all of them
20110411 21:17:17< timotei> trying to get the final done soon.
20110411 21:17:18< mordante> hi Sytyi 
20110411 21:17:21< vjoe> actually
20110411 21:17:22< timotei> hi boucman 
20110411 21:17:22< vjoe> nvm
20110411 21:17:45< boucman> hey al
20110411 21:17:47< boucman> l
20110411 21:17:54< mordante> hi boucman 
20110411 21:18:03 * boucman is done reviewing too
20110411 21:18:11< mordante> Sytyi, you have time to look at your proposal?
20110411 21:18:21< Sytyi> mordante: yes, of course
20110411 21:19:12< timotei> hmm, last year's interrogatory was in 14th April. The day is coming fast xD
20110411 21:21:06< mordante> Sytyi, can you pastebin your current patch again?
20110411 21:21:40< Sytyi> mordante: the whole file or just  parts we need?
20110411 21:22:11< mordante> just the parts we need
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20110411 21:25:21< Sytyi> mordante: http://pastebin.com/2p5VsbSw
20110411 21:25:46< vjoe> fendrin: the map editor action class is basically a trigger caused by the gui?
20110411 21:26:00< vjoe> I'm not sure my wording is correct, hm...
20110411 21:26:19< Disruption> timotei: Interrogatory? :P
20110411 21:26:42< vjoe> hm yeah, I think i found something useful
20110411 21:26:55< mordante> timotei, I already started with Sytyi last weekend :-P
20110411 21:27:53< mordante> Sytyi, how do you feel about changing @begin{tag}{name="blur", minoccurs=0, maxoccurs=1} 
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20110411 21:28:13< mordante> to @begin{tag}{blur}{0}{1} ?
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20110411 21:29:49< timotei> mordante: I can't wait for the schema thingy to be settled xD
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20110411 21:30:27< Sytyi> mordante: it is possible. But then if we want to upgrade annotations with non mandatory values, they will automatically made mandatory
20110411 21:30:49< Sytyi> mordante: But it is possible, and I think it is not a great problem.
20110411 21:30:55< Soliton> if defaults are useful named parameters would be better, then you can leave out min=0 and max=1 since that would likely be the default.
20110411 21:33:19< mordante> that's another option
20110411 21:35:35< vjoe> Soliton: where is the wesnoth log file usually stored at?
20110411 21:35:50< mordante> Sytyi, you wrote a sample of a schema file here http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC_2011_Sytyi#Schema_file
20110411 21:35:50< timotei> Sytyi: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2011/
20110411 21:35:53< timotei> vjoe: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2011/
20110411 21:36:25< Soliton> vjoe: /dev/stdout
20110411 21:36:55< mordante> Sytyi, can you write a small tool to create a schema file from your current input
20110411 21:36:55< Sytyi> timotei: m? 
20110411 21:36:56< vjoe> thanks Soliton 
20110411 21:37:15< timotei> Sytyi: sorry, wrong nick >P
20110411 21:37:17< timotei> :P
20110411 21:37:22< mordante> Sytyi, and obviously you an use the wiki_grabber as base
20110411 21:37:41< vjoe> hm, is there a flag I need to use Soliton?
20110411 21:37:52< vjoe> according to the source code some msgs should be appearing
20110411 21:38:42< Sytyi> mordante: I think I can. At least I can to try. 
20110411 21:39:07< mordante> Sytyi, ok cool, feel free to ask of you run into problems
20110411 21:39:21< Sytyi> mordante: Ok
20110411 21:39:22< mordante> Sytyi, you feel comfortable to code in python?
20110411 21:39:24< Soliton> vjoe: context is a wonderful thing. just you have it though so far.
20110411 21:39:34< Sytyi> mordante: no at all. 
20110411 21:40:07< vjoe> pardon?
20110411 21:40:13< mordante> Sytyi, what language do you feel comfortable in?
20110411 21:40:23< Sytyi> mordante: C++, Java. 
20110411 21:40:43< Soliton> vjoe: if you tell me what you're talking about maybe i can help you.
20110411 21:41:16< mordante> Sytyi, if you think it's easier for you in C++, feel free to use C++
20110411 21:41:41< vjoe> oh, sorry
20110411 21:41:53< mordante> Sytyi, I haven't used Java much so rather not have a Java solution
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20110411 21:42:30< vjoe> Soliton: I am trying to figure out where the stuff in LOG_ED gets outputed to
20110411 21:42:37< mordante> Sytyi, and if you need a regex engine you can use http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_42_0/libs/regex/doc/html/index.html
20110411 21:42:49< Sytyi> mordante: I think it is much more fast for me to make it in C++. You know what  I'm working now, so C++ will be great. 
20110411 21:42:59< Sytyi> mordante: Thanks, that's great
20110411 21:43:23< Soliton> vjoe: try --log-debug=editor
20110411 21:43:25< mordante> Sytyi, ok then feel free to do it in C++
20110411 21:43:59< vjoe> Soliton: can I have stdout instead of an editor?
20110411 21:44:18< Soliton> what?
20110411 21:44:22< vjoe> oh
20110411 21:44:22< vjoe> nvm
20110411 21:44:26< vjoe> i thought it was something else
20110411 21:44:32< mordante> Sytyi, if you have questions when I'm not around feel free to leave a message in the log
20110411 21:44:45< vjoe> AH NICE
20110411 21:44:49< vjoe> thanks so much Soliton 
20110411 21:44:49< mordante> Sytyi, and best also read the logs (or search for your name)
20110411 21:44:54< Soliton> no problem.
20110411 21:45:35< Sytyi> mordante: I read logs nearly every day. It's
20110411 21:46:48< mordante> Sytyi, ok good, just wanted to be sure sometimes I visit IRC in my lunchbreak
20110411 21:47:14< Sytyi> mordante: I have some global questions, but let them wait a bit. Now I want to think only about task. 
20110411 21:47:50< mordante> ok
20110411 21:48:48< Sytyi> mordante: At university I have Internet access via proxy, and read logs. Not in irc but reading logs sometimes. Thanks.  
20110411 21:49:20< mordante> ok good
20110411 21:49:52< Sytyi> mordante: be back in few mins
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20110411 21:55:45< mordante> automagic, around?
20110411 21:58:39< automagic> yes
20110411 21:58:42< automagic> Hi.
20110411 21:58:48< automagic> I have just submitted my patch
20110411 21:59:02< automagic> It isn't fully polished, but it seems to work.
20110411 21:59:03< Ivanovic> automagic: [21:58:32] <boucman> i'm reviewing it as we speak
20110411 21:59:04< Ivanovic> ;)
20110411 21:59:09< mordante> automagic, boucman is looking at it
20110411 21:59:14< boucman> :P
20110411 21:59:26< automagic> Great :)
20110411 21:59:33< boucman> automagic: cool I'll comment here then instead of in the comments
20110411 21:59:56< mordante> automagic, regarding the comment I left at your proposal, I like to discuss it a bit further
20110411 22:00:01< boucman> so, first thing : you create a new file with new content, so the copyright header should be assigned to yourself
20110411 22:00:23< mordante> you say the image gets loaded with the ~CROP() function
20110411 22:00:31< automagic> I have based it on image_function.*pp
20110411 22:00:43< mordante> however ~CROP() takes fixed coordinates
20110411 22:01:09< mordante> and from your proposal it seems the coordinates can change when the spritesheet is recreated
20110411 22:01:38< mordante> is that correct or did I miss something?
20110411 22:01:43< automagic> yes, but the crop modification is generated when image::locator asks for it
20110411 22:02:33< Ivanovic> btw for those who want to work on spritesheets: i just pinged jetrel in a different chan and he might be available to discuss stuff in about an hour (not sure yet since he is rather busy atm)
20110411 22:02:47< automagic> The spritesheet.cfg stores all the image coordinates and the spritesheet manager generates crop modifications based on that
20110411 22:03:00< mordante> yes but if in the unit WML I have image=sprite_sheet_x~CROP(forgot_the_exact_syntax)
20110411 22:03:01< Ivanovic> that is: those that want to work on spritesheets and would like to have some more feedback from artists might want to talk to him then
20110411 22:03:28< mordante> automagic, then disregard my last line
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20110411 22:03:46< boucman> mordante: IIUC, you would bery rarely use that.... you put image=filename, and the spritesheet engine would replace the filename with correct spritesheet name+CROP
20110411 22:03:59< automagic> mordante: Then there would be two crops. The first one cutting the image from the spritesheet and the second one described in WML
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20110411 22:04:22< mordante> boucman, and what filename do you exactly put in image?
20110411 22:04:44< mordante> this name=images/leader-attack-3.png
20110411 22:05:03< boucman> yes, basically spritesheets provide alias for filenames
20110411 22:05:05< automagic> the spritesheet.cfg
20110411 22:05:09< mordante> ok
20110411 22:05:14< Ivanovic> [22:02:12] <Jetrel> Really, I ought to write a short synopsis of what's needed on the forums.
20110411 22:05:19< Ivanovic> [22:02:51] <Jetrel> In short:  there's little/no point in doing spritesheets unless one also does shorthand animation syntax; spritesheets exist to enable that.
20110411 22:05:24< Ivanovic> [22:04:17] <Jetrel> The point is to allow us to do most animations; currently spread across ~ 50+ lines of WML, in half a dozen frame tags, in a mere 6 or so lines of WML.
20110411 22:05:33< boucman> the point is to allow easily to explode/reconstruct the spritesheet without modifying the animation WML
20110411 22:05:34< automagic> or if you don't like the idea of one config file for all spritesheets an appropriate cfg file for the spritesheet in question
20110411 22:05:41< mordante> automagic, boucman that was not entirely clear from the proposal
20110411 22:05:49< mordante> thanks for answering my question
20110411 22:06:24< boucman> mordante: indeed, it's more clear if you read the idea+proposal, in which case it make sense...
20110411 22:06:44< boucman> but since I wrote the original idea, that's not a problem for me :P
20110411 22:07:19< mordante> :-)
20110411 22:07:36< mordante> well I like that idea
20110411 22:07:58< zaroth> Soliton: I had no idea Wesnoth's building technology went forward so far in last three years. Last time I remember, everybody was waiting for YogiHH to make the Windows build ;-)
20110411 22:08:10< zaroth> Soliton: good to know however, it will definitely help
20110411 22:08:17< boucman> yes, the idea is that if we have both a spritesheet entry and a file we use the file... that way an artist can just drop an image in a directory to replace an animation
20110411 22:08:45< boucman> and at release time a simple script can rebuild the spritesheets, so artists don't have to commit spritesheets if they don't want to
20110411 22:10:49< mordante> ok
20110411 22:11:52< boucman> automagic: scratch my copyright comment, I hadn't realized you had just renamed a file...
20110411 22:12:10< automagic> I have forgotten to mention - in the code I have marked all my uncertainties with a "//?"
20110411 22:14:28< boucman> automagic: the ~TC()TC() syntax you mention is it currently legal, or just an idea you have ?
20110411 22:14:48< automagic> It was supported by the old implementation
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20110411 22:15:12< automagic> I don't know if it was official, but it would work then and doesn't now.
20110411 22:15:13< boucman> well, we probably want it back, then (just mentionning, you marked the place so you are aware of that)
20110411 22:15:24< boucman> automagic: what does the documentation say ?
20110411 22:15:32< automagic> I don't think supporting such a syntax makes any sense however
20110411 22:15:48< boucman> backward compatibility
20110411 22:16:31< vjoe> hey fendrin, are u around?
20110411 22:16:51< automagic> I talked to Espreon about this and he said he has never seen that syntax used. Also I haven't found any modification code that uses it myself.
20110411 22:17:26< boucman> automagic: i'm not at the place where you separate the modifications in a string yet, but couldn't you register both "TC" and "~TC" in mod_parsers ?
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20110411 22:17:29< vjoe> mordante: are u familiar with the map editor code?
20110411 22:17:53< automagic> the tildes aren't included in the registration strings
20110411 22:18:13< boucman> and if you included them ?
20110411 22:18:16< automagic> so ~TC wouldn't work, since the split removes all the tildes
20110411 22:18:22< boucman> ok
20110411 22:18:35< shadowmaster> Gambit: you are too dumb.
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20110411 22:18:58< mordante> vjoe, I've worked on it in the past, fendrin is also working on it, but best just ask your question then everybody can answer
20110411 22:19:05< automagic> it would just create an entry in the mod_parsers map that couldn't be ever used
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20110411 22:19:19< boucman> hmm
20110411 22:19:55< boucman> well, give it some thought, ask zookeeper if he is aware of the syntax (and I assumed you checked mainline with the right grep magic)
20110411 22:20:02< vjoe> well, I am just a bit confused about "embedded map contexts"
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20110411 22:20:13< Soliton> what does TC()TC() do compared to TC()?
20110411 22:20:35< boucman> Soliton: bad example
20110411 22:21:05< boucman> though it could be used to recolor twice, starting from different color ranges I guess
20110411 22:21:19< vjoe> I am assuming that when a map is loaded successfully, and it has it's context info in a separate config file, the load map function "goes" to line 719
20110411 22:22:04< Soliton> ok, so it's just about same functions appearing multiple times?
20110411 22:22:25< Soliton> that sounds like it should definitely be supported.
20110411 22:27:57< boucman> automagic: what is LOC supposed to be ?
20110411 22:29:08< boucman> it is based on map_location.... my guess is that it extracts images from a screenshot.... that's weird
20110411 22:30:01< automagic> I'm not sure. The comment said it wasn't supported so I haven't supported it either.
20110411 22:30:13< boucman> oh, ok...
20110411 22:30:25< boucman> who did svn blame report as the coder ?
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20110411 22:31:06< automagic> I have no idea. I haven't checked.
20110411 22:32:36< boucman> could you quickly do it ?
20110411 22:34:46< vjoe> mordante: does the makefile for wesnoth have compiling optimizations?
20110411 22:35:08< mordante> vjoe, we don't have a makefile, which build system do you use?
20110411 22:35:22< mordante> I assume both use -O2 by default
20110411 22:36:12< vjoe> well, I meant the make file generated by cmake
20110411 22:36:36< zookeeper> what's this about TC() syntax?
20110411 22:37:00< mordante> the normal is -O2 for debugging -O0, but why the question?
20110411 22:37:01< timotei> zookeeper: when doing a LUA WML tag, the parameter is usually cfg
20110411 22:37:13< timotei> is that a convention or is mandatory to use that?
20110411 22:37:16< vjoe> because I might try to compile it to test my bug fix
20110411 22:37:20< vjoe> in a bit
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20110411 22:37:39< vjoe> i would first like to be sure I am correct though
20110411 22:38:24< vjoe> mordante: are you familiar with the process of loading a map in the editor? I am struggling to find where it draws the actual map
20110411 22:38:42< vjoe> actually
20110411 22:38:43< vjoe> hm
20110411 22:38:43< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110411 22:38:43< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 12h ago.  1d 12h ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
20110411 22:38:59< mordante> vjoe, what do you want to know?
20110411 22:39:01< automagic> boucman: alink?
20110411 22:40:21< vjoe> mordante: well, in the load map function, editor_controller.cpp, line 694
20110411 22:40:37< vjoe> where does the program go from there into actually drawing the map?
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20110411 22:41:07< vjoe> I have been looking at the load_map_dialog function too, but it does not give me any clues
20110411 22:41:23< YogiHH> hi guys
20110411 22:41:27< zaroth> hello YogiHH
20110411 22:41:27< mordante> hi YogiHH 
20110411 22:41:29< timotei> hi YogiHH 
20110411 22:41:52< zaroth> YogiHH: I was waiting for you ;-)
20110411 22:42:02< YogiHH> i guess so :)
20110411 22:42:18< shadowmaster> hi YogiHH 
20110411 22:42:37< mordante> vjoe, not sure about the contexts but I expect it is for loading multiple maps and switching between them
20110411 22:42:53< eoc> Ivanovic: heya, you're around?
20110411 22:43:18< vjoe> I think I get the context, I just don't get where the game goes after calling load_map
20110411 22:43:41< mordante> vjoe, the displaying is handled in editor/editor_display.cpp and the display.cpp
20110411 22:43:59< mordante> vjoe, what do you want to do/edit?
20110411 22:44:13< vjoe> I am looking at this
20110411 22:44:15< vjoe> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?17956
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20110411 22:45:52< mordante> vjoe, grepping for map_label has no hits in editor/editor_display.cpp and has hits in display.cpp
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20110411 22:45:59< vjoe> mordante: right, however, where is load_map_dialog called?
20110411 22:46:07< vjoe> I can't find anything through grep
20110411 22:47:24< mordante> vjoe, use a better grep ;-) editor/editor_main.cpp|42 col 12| editor.load_map_dialog(true);
20110411 22:47:57< mordante> editor/editor_controller.cpp|1020 col 4| load_map_dialog();    
20110411 22:48:31< vjoe> oh, how do you get the line and col in grep?
20110411 22:48:35< vjoe> that's pretty cool
20110411 22:48:45< vjoe> i did get that, but I thought it was something else, my bad
20110411 22:48:50< mordante> I use vimgrep in vim
20110411 22:48:55< vjoe> hm
20110411 22:49:02< vjoe> i use normal grep, i'll try that
20110411 22:49:08< vjoe> anyway, from what I have found
20110411 22:49:17< vjoe> load_map fails to call set_starting_position_labels(gui());
20110411 22:49:33< vjoe> which is called in editor_controller::refresh_after_action
20110411 22:49:38< vjoe> well, not set_ but reset_
20110411 22:49:39< boucman> automagic: ok, if you see alink, ask him :P
20110411 22:49:45< vjoe> that is why the labels appear after adding a new one
20110411 22:49:46< mordante> the one in editor_main.cpp is used when you give a filename parameter when starting wesnoth -e
20110411 22:49:48< boucman> wesbot: seen alink
20110411 22:49:48< wesbot> boucman: Sorry, I don't know of alink.
20110411 22:49:54< boucman> huh ?
20110411 22:50:04< vjoe> (adding a new label sets the flag to set them to 1)
20110411 22:50:34< vjoe> I am now just trying to figure out how to solve it
20110411 22:51:01< boucman> automagic: ok, not much to say about your patch. I won't commit it until you give me a go, but overall it looks pretty solid to me. Try to iron out the details, make sure TC()TC() is not documented, and it should be good to go...
20110411 22:51:03< shadowmaster> boucman: he's been away for very long
20110411 22:51:16< boucman> mkay...
20110411 22:51:16< shadowmaster> half a year, if I'm not mistaken
20110411 22:51:21< boucman> we might never know then
20110411 22:51:26< automagic> boucman: Ok
20110411 22:51:44< shadowmaster> boucman: IME he still answers rather quickly to email messages, so you could try that if it's an urgen tissue
20110411 22:52:41< shadowmaster> *urgent
20110411 22:52:49 * zookeeper still doesn't know what this TC()TC() stuff is and why there's always at least one ~ missing
20110411 22:53:06 * zookeeper presumes the missing tildes are what this is about
20110411 22:53:33< boucman> zookeeper: in the current code you can write ~TC()~TC() as ~TC()TC() and it seems to work
20110411 22:54:02< zookeeper> okay. seems unnecessary, no?
20110411 22:54:16< boucman> automagic has just reimplemented that area, but lost that feature in the meantime, we are trying to figure out if we should silently drop it, add a note in RELEASE_NOTES or keep some backward compatibility
20110411 22:54:38< zookeeper> i don't see or recall any reason to keep it, really
20110411 22:54:47< boucman> ok, sounds good
20110411 22:55:36< mordante> vjoe, what do you exactly want to know?
20110411 22:55:45< Espreon> boucman: How long do you plan to stay?
20110411 22:56:01< mordante> sytyi, how are things going, any question for me (I'll be leaving shortly)
20110411 22:56:30< sytyi> mordante: no question at this moment
20110411 22:56:39< mordante> sytyi, ok
20110411 22:56:41< sytyi> mordante: reading doc. at moment
20110411 22:56:56< sytyi> mordante: maybe I '' write without regexp faster
20110411 22:57:11< sytyi> mordante: but I want to study it 
20110411 22:57:35< sytyi> mordante: The night is long ) Good night
20110411 22:57:36< vjoe> mordante: 1 sec, my code is compiling :P
20110411 22:57:36< mordante> well reading documentation doesn't hurt ;-)
20110411 22:57:43< vjoe> let me see if it works
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20110411 22:58:25< timotei> Ivanovic, boucman, Crab_, fendrin, mordante: Do you get email notifications when a student postes a comment? I've just updated my proposal and added a new comment :P Hopefully you won't get bored reading it ;)
20110411 22:58:27< boucman> Espreon: you mean online ?
20110411 22:58:39< Espreon> Yeah.
20110411 22:58:54< mordante> timotei, yes I had an inbox full with them ;-)
20110411 22:58:59< boucman> timotei: yes we do, we are submerged by these since the beginning of GSoC :P
20110411 22:59:05< timotei> wow
20110411 22:59:09< boucman> Espreon: I'll leave in about an hour
20110411 22:59:11< timotei> and we are *just* 26 or so?
20110411 22:59:24< timotei> 25 to be precise
20110411 22:59:32< mordante> we also get email when other mentors reply
20110411 22:59:44< timotei> I don't want to know what the eclipse/kde/gnome guys do :(
20110411 23:00:01< timotei> I guess every dev becomes temporary a mentor just to comment on the proposals xD
20110411 23:00:13< mordante> probably unsubscribe from applications which are not in their area of expertice
20110411 23:00:13< eoc> turn off certain notifications I guess
20110411 23:00:13< Espreon> boucman: Well, screw trying to get a screencap then. Anyway, earlier today, when playing Liberty, I saw that Village Elders take on a frame of the Goblin Pillager's defense animation while being attacked by Goblin Pillagers.
20110411 23:01:31< boucman> ???
20110411 23:01:32< boucman> wow
20110411 23:01:38< Espreon> Yeah.
20110411 23:01:47< boucman> is liberty mainline ?
20110411 23:01:55< shadowmaster> yes
20110411 23:02:02-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110411 23:03:16< boucman> Espreon: male or female elder ?
20110411 23:03:43< Espreon> Male.
20110411 23:04:38< timotei> well, I think I'm off
20110411 23:04:40< timotei> good night guys
20110411 23:04:45< timotei> (and have fun reading proposals xD)
20110411 23:04:49-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Quit: SIGKILL]
20110411 23:05:09< boucman> ok, nothing obvious...
20110411 23:05:27< boucman> can you reproduce more or less reliably ? possibly with a savegame you could send me 
20110411 23:06:20< Espreon> For some reason, I can't reproduce it anymore. All I remember is that my Village Elders were defending from torch.,
20110411 23:07:33< Espreon> Sadly, I no longer have the save.
20110411 23:07:44< Espreon> I'll keep trying to reproduce it.
20110411 23:07:49< vjoe> so but mordante 
20110411 23:08:18-!- sytyi [~chatzilla@97-26-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110411 23:08:23< vjoe> load_map will change some "stuff" which the display class will grab and use in the drawing function
20110411 23:08:27< vjoe> right?
20110411 23:09:55< mordante> probably yes
20110411 23:10:08< mordante> I'm about to leave, should get some sleep
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20110411 23:10:57< Espreon> boucman: Yeah, I don't think I'm going to be able to reproduce it.
20110411 23:10:58< Espreon> Oh well.
20110411 23:10:58< boucman> hey Jetrel
20110411 23:11:05< vjoe> ok
20110411 23:11:05< boucman> :(
20110411 23:11:08< vjoe> good night mordante!
20110411 23:11:11< mordante> I'm off night
20110411 23:11:26< Jetrel> automagic:  ivanovic called me over here because apparently there's a lot of confusion about the spritesheet proposal
20110411 23:11:31-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110411 23:12:20< automagic> Jetrel: Hi. My proposal is available at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2011_Automagic
20110411 23:12:30< Jetrel> There are several primary purposes of having spritesheets, unfortunately most of the proposals are naively addressing only one of the purposes.
20110411 23:13:06< boucman> probably partly my fault, since it adresses the purpose I understand :)
20110411 23:13:19< MGoods|RangerM> Hey Jet
20110411 23:13:20< Ivanovic> eoc: please use some context in your pings, then i can directly reply
20110411 23:13:21< Ivanovic> ;)
20110411 23:13:24< MGoods|RangerM> long time no see
20110411 23:13:45< Jetrel> automagic:  yes, I've already read it, it's an elegant but extremely overcomplicated plan, and it fails what's really my primary goal
20110411 23:13:55< Jetrel> So lets lay out these purposes:
20110411 23:14:38< automagic> My main goal is to make the spritesheet tool simple and easy to use, with minimal learning curve
20110411 23:14:45< Ivanovic> timotei: it is configurable if we get notifications about comments or not
20110411 23:14:54< eoc> Ivanovic: sorry for that :) getting a tad confused right now about the SoC mails
20110411 23:14:56-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-171-163-199.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110411 23:15:04< eoc> I'd like to know how to understand "All mentors must be signed up and all student proposals matched with a mentor" in the timeline -- does this mean we also need to assign mentors to proposals we'll surely not consider? by when exactly?
20110411 23:15:05< Ivanovic> timotei: besides we see the last date of changes (and those changes also include comments!)
20110411 23:15:15< Jetrel> automagic:  right - we don't want a spritesheet tool, you're wasting your time making one.  We already have a much better spritesheet tool, and it's called photoshop.
20110411 23:15:18< Espreon> boucman: Yeah, let's just hope it was a freak occurrence.
20110411 23:15:25< boucman> :P
20110411 23:15:26< Ivanovic> eoc: this means that you have to match those proposals that you want to accept with a mentor
20110411 23:15:30< Ivanovic> the rest does not matter
20110411 23:15:48< Ivanovic> though with duplication resolution you should consider looking at stuff again every now and then
20110411 23:16:00< Jetrel> 1] shortening animation syntax.  The main purpose of the spritesheet proposal is - by having some small inefficiencies in data size (lost space between sprites in the spritesheet, which even can later be recovered via a texture atlas packing system), to make animation syntax extremely short.
20110411 23:16:14< eoc> okay, great then (-;
20110411 23:16:15< Ivanovic> eoc: in general: select your X students, assign a mentor to them and watch if there is some mark saying "this is a duplicate, talk to org ABC"
20110411 23:16:24< Jetrel> We're talking some 7 lines for an entire, say, 10-frame animation.
20110411 23:16:31< Ivanovic> *AND*: be around in the duplication meeting, just to be 100% sure
20110411 23:17:09< Jetrel> We actually would like to completely eliminate support for frame-by-frame animations, since those are isomorphic in size to just putting a few animations in series.
20110411 23:17:46< eoc> Ivanovic: that's what the 'Accept this proposal' button is for I presume? so we can assign more mentors to the strong proposals just in case we'd need this?
20110411 23:18:01< boucman> Jetrel: animation syntax is totally unrelated
20110411 23:18:05< Ivanovic> eoc: i am not really sure what the "accept this proposal" button does
20110411 23:18:10< vjoe> guys, I've just compiled wesnoth for the first time, but I am having some trouble running it
20110411 23:18:19< boucman> moreover all the features are needed since I have added them on the request from animators
20110411 23:18:24< automagic> Jetrel: To defend the tool I would have to say that photoshop doesn't generate WML, or any other config files describing sprite positioning.
20110411 23:18:29< Ivanovic> vjoe: first param after binary run is the data path
20110411 23:18:32< vjoe> i think it is because it is trying to use /usr/share/local/wesnoth which is a 1.8.5 installation dir
20110411 23:18:34< Ivanovic> if you have not installed it, you need it
20110411 23:18:40< boucman> and progressive params can be used in image= if you want to shorten the syntax
20110411 23:18:42< Ivanovic> so run: ./wesnoth .
20110411 23:18:48< vjoe> oh
20110411 23:18:48< eoc> Ivanovic: hmm … so it was added with the overhaul, okay, I'll not use it then for now :)
20110411 23:18:52< vjoe> thanks Ivanovic !
20110411 23:18:58< Jetrel> boucman:  no, no it's not - I'm talking about eliminating our internal concepts of how we do animations, and complete changing them - no more frames at all.
20110411 23:19:16< Ivanovic> eoc: my guess is that until that given date you have to assign a mentor *and* accept the proposal
20110411 23:19:18< boucman> and how do you plan to synchronize animations ?
20110411 23:19:26< automagic> Jetrel: One of my ideas for a future extension was to make the tool generate animation WML, but that is already supported by Anima.
20110411 23:19:27< boucman> or start a sound at the proper time
20110411 23:19:33< Jetrel> boucman:  events
20110411 23:19:38< Ivanovic> eoc: though just wait some more days until the preliminary slot numbers are published, they are likely to come with some "what you should do now" manual
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20110411 23:19:53< boucman> huh ?
20110411 23:19:54< vjoe> Ivanovic: it fails while looking for the fonts cfg
20110411 23:20:19< Ivanovic> vjoe: it probably does just not find a fond Espreon just added for old english
20110411 23:20:29-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110411 23:20:29< Ivanovic> vjoe: or does it really fail hard and not show a window?
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20110411 23:20:56< Ivanovic> vjoe: basically you have to specify the path to the folder where data/, fonts/, images/, sounds/ and the likes reside in as first param
20110411 23:20:57< eoc> Ivanovic: aye, expecting a mail by carol on this topic tomorrow. coming back to you or rather #gsoc if stuff's still unclear
20110411 23:20:58< vjoe> it does not show a window
20110411 23:21:00< eoc> thanks :)
20110411 23:21:07< vjoe> yeah
20110411 23:21:07< vjoe> hm
20110411 23:21:09< vjoe> 1 sec then
20110411 23:21:11< vjoe> lemme find it
20110411 23:21:28< Ivanovic> eoc: don't assume that the initial numbers will be out tomorrow, it can easily be delayed till, say, thursday
20110411 23:21:28< Jetrel> boucman:  frames are eliminated.  Animations are simply represented by a numerical "time in animation" value.  If something needs to be done, an animation is given an event name that is fired at a specific "time in animation" - events are provided as a CSV list in just one tag.
20110411 23:21:48< vjoe> done
20110411 23:21:49< vjoe> :D
20110411 23:22:02< vjoe> thanks
20110411 23:22:07< vjoe> right, lets see if my bugfix works
20110411 23:22:12< Jetrel> boucman:  when an event is fired, that event is sent to the unit in question, and it's formula is executed.  I believe we did backport the silvertree formula system to wesnoth at some point.
20110411 23:22:14< Ivanovic> vjoe: though you could also specify a different install folder and compile and install afterwards
20110411 23:22:23< boucman> pastebin me some syntax so I understand, like two animations (attack and defend) that are synchronzied
20110411 23:22:27< Ivanovic> eg on my box i have both, trunk and branches/1.8 installed in parallel
20110411 23:22:50< boucman> Jetrel: that wouldn't work, you don't know beforehand which animations should start first
20110411 23:22:56< Qbunia> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110411 23:22:57< wesbot> Qbunia: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 1d 13h ago.  1d 13h ago person left: "I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org"
20110411 23:22:58< boucman> so an animation can't trigger the other
20110411 23:23:17< Jetrel> boucman:  uhm, no, this is how frogatto does it, and it works just fine.
20110411 23:23:39< Ivanovic> Qbunia: relax!
20110411 23:23:42< boucman> frogatto has very limited needs wrt animation synchronization compared to wesnoth
20110411 23:23:48< Ivanovic> Qbunia: if you have questions, just ask everyone in here
20110411 23:23:58< Jetrel> boucman:  that's simply false.
20110411 23:24:05< Ivanovic> Qbunia: consider that some people got reallife, a job to take care of, maybe even family
20110411 23:24:10< Ivanovic> they can't be in irc every day
20110411 23:24:45< vjoe> Ivanovic: oh, that is smart!
20110411 23:24:49< vjoe> is that a make argument?
20110411 23:24:52< zaroth> Qbunia: and Crab_ actually said he won't be back till Tuesday
20110411 23:24:55< Ivanovic> vjoe: which build system are you using?
20110411 23:24:58< vjoe> cmake
20110411 23:25:06< Qbunia> what is leader value? where are the functions to cpp engine so i can use them in lua ? why my lua_ai scenario dont want to run on windows on vc9? 
20110411 23:25:16< Qbunia> zaroth: sheet
20110411 23:25:25< boucman> Jetrel: well, then pastebin me an example of a syntax for an attacker and defender, with a common synchronization at impact which is the start of neither animations
20110411 23:25:37< Ivanovic> vjoe: http://pastebin.com/FSkjitZk
20110411 23:25:45< vjoe> btw Ivanovic, can't I add two data dirs?
20110411 23:25:47< boucman> each animation not knowing how  long the other is or how early before the sync point the other animation starts
20110411 23:25:48< zaroth> vjoe: have my cmake wesnoth.sh one liner, which makes running simpler: ./wesnoth --data-dir "`pwd`/../" --config-dir ~/.wesnoth19 $*
20110411 23:25:51< Ivanovic> vjoe: see this script i use for some maintainance jobs
20110411 23:25:55< vjoe> like the system data dir and the user one
20110411 23:25:57< vjoe> ok, thanks
20110411 23:25:59< zaroth> it avoids conflicts altogether
20110411 23:26:00< Qbunia> why vc9 wesnoth load so slow and linux loads so fast?
20110411 23:26:03< Ivanovic> at the top i setup what the script is for (obviously for trunk)
20110411 23:26:05< zaroth> just run it from build
20110411 23:26:07< zaroth> ./wesnoth.sh
20110411 23:26:25< vjoe> ah yeah
20110411 23:26:26< vjoe> config dir
20110411 23:26:28< Qbunia> is there any program like notepad++ where on linux i can search keyword in everyfiles i specify?
20110411 23:26:45< Ivanovic> it will create a binary called "wesnoth-svn" as well as "wesnothd-svn" and install stuff to /games/wesnoth-svn and placing the binaries in /games-bin/
20110411 23:26:52< Soliton> Qbunia: man grep
20110411 23:26:52< Ivanovic> Qbunia: grep
20110411 23:27:05< Qbunia> ye i know 
20110411 23:27:06< Qbunia> but it sux
20110411 23:27:06< Qbunia> ;p
20110411 23:27:14< Ivanovic> it is freaking powerful!
20110411 23:27:22< Qbunia> i like notepad interface where i can click on phrase and boom iam in this file !
20110411 23:27:51< Qbunia> it helps me a lot with searching ... 
20110411 23:27:59< Soliton> you're not making a lot of sense so it is unlikely someone can help you.
20110411 23:28:45< Ivanovic> vjoe: the script should give you some hints what you can configure which way to have stuff installed in parallel
20110411 23:28:52< Qbunia> i dont get you ?
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20110411 23:29:52< Ivanovic> vjoe: this is the relevant diff to alter the script and have it ready for 1.8: http://pastebin.com/pR6HLrqu
20110411 23:29:52< vjoe> yes
20110411 23:29:54< vjoe> thanks Ivanovic 
20110411 23:30:18< vjoe> right
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20110411 23:30:49< vjoe> argh, the bug wasnt fixed
20110411 23:30:53< vjoe> right, lets dive into the code
20110411 23:32:44-!- eoc` [~eoc@pD9560BC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110411 23:34:57< vjoe> hm, interesting
20110411 23:35:44-!- eoc [~eoc@pD956004E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
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20110411 23:39:42< boucman> ok, I got to go... g'night all
20110411 23:39:59< Soliton> Qbunia: what do you mean with "what is leader value?"?
20110411 23:40:09-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110411 23:40:46< Qbunia> Soliton: i found in code function: get_leader_value i exposed it and mm it dosent seem to represent any value of leader
20110411 23:41:00< Ivanovic> time for me to get some sleep, too, n8
20110411 23:41:11< Qbunia> Soliton: its not hitpoints not lvl maybe soething related with attack?
20110411 23:41:11-!- Max20010 [~chatzilla@d91-128-237-120.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110411 23:41:16< Jetrel> boucman:  loose guess at the algorithm;  the functional change(?) here is the defense animation wouldn't immediately enter the defense frames when the attacker started his animation, but would begin the defense animation at the appropriate time before the attack animation so they'd both hit their "impact_time" at the same time:  http://pastebin.com/index/EUyiP9ut
20110411 23:41:16< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49181 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-httt/ja.po wesnoth-manual/ja.po wesnoth-sof/ja.po): updated Japanese translation
20110411 23:42:27< Jetrel> besides having impact_time as a member-value of [animation], what I wrote is basically possible in frogatto, right now.
20110411 23:43:28< Jetrel> Algorithm may also fall apart if the defense anim is longer than the attack anim, I didn't consider that in the quick act of writing this.
20110411 23:46:39< Soliton> Qbunia: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML#the_.5Bai.5D_tag
20110411 23:48:22-!- happygrue_ [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110411 23:48:55< Qbunia> Soliton: i see thax me noob ^.^
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20110411 23:50:38< zaroth> Qbunia: http://betterthangrep.com ;-)
20110411 23:50:45< zaroth> I became addicted to that tool quickly
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20110411 23:51:05< Soliton> he wants an IDE/editor not a search tool though.
20110411 23:51:18< Jetrel> boucman:  anyways, this is all a very far-fetched bit of pipe-dreaming, what I want to do now is simply get a much more simplified animation syntax that makes it possible to convey everything we have now, about animations, without changing the internal way we do them, but which is also amenable to such a later overhaul.
20110411 23:52:06-!- Crab__ [~Crab@195.238.92.185] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110411 23:52:46< Qbunia> who said he wont be till Tuesday?:D
20110411 23:53:02< Crab__> Qbunia: I said. Tueday for me, GMT+3 :)
20110411 23:53:07< Crab__> *Tuesday
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20110411 23:56:18< automagic> Jetrel: I would have to analyze it, but I think that the tool I propose could be of some use towards defining animations. For example you could select the frames of an animation and have the tool save that. The C++ side could allow you to support the animation spritesheet declaration in WML instead of having to specify every frame. The tool would also make making changes to animations (adding removing frames) easier.
20110411 23:56:49< automagic> (Im just speculating)
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20110411 23:57:40< vjoe> hey fendrin, are u around?
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20110411 23:57:51< vjoe> hey Crab__, are u familiar with the map editor?
20110411 23:57:55< Qbunia> Crab__: hi
20110411 23:59:07< Crab__> vjoe: somewhat. had to fix a few bugs in it once.
20110411 23:59:11< Crab__> Qbunia: hello
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20110411 23:59:38< vjoe> hm
20110411 23:59:45< vjoe> im trying to fix the starting position labels bug
20110411 23:59:55< Qbunia> Crab__: if i wanna use cpp engine in WML where ican findfunctions ? 
--- Log closed Tue Apr 12 00:00:14 2011