--- Log opened Tue Apr 12 00:00:14 2011
--- Day changed Tue Apr 12 2011
20110412 00:00:14< Qbunia> Crab__:  i know where are fai and lua but cpp ?:(
20110412 00:00:17< Jetrel> automagic: yeah, to be fair, having a tool to output such stuff would be moderately useful;  I just find it really fast to do in photoshop, since essentially the only thing such a tool gives you is the ability to specify the rect of the first image, and if I'm already in photoshop, that's very easy to get.
20110412 00:00:25< Crab__> vjoe: can you link to the bug ?
20110412 00:00:43< vjoe> sure
20110412 00:00:54< vjoe> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?17956
20110412 00:01:06< vjoe> Im going to bed soon, will resume the work tomorrow
20110412 00:01:08< Crab__> Qbunia: src/ai/composite/engine_default.cpp
20110412 00:01:21< vjoe> it's good though, I've learnt loads about the code just today
20110412 00:02:15< vjoe> i think it has something to do with the initial context
20110412 00:02:15< Crab__> vjoe: yes, seems like a good bug to fix.
20110412 00:02:28< vjoe> can I assign it to myself?
20110412 00:02:32< vjoe> i've registered on gna
20110412 00:02:59< Soliton> no, can only be assigned to project members.
20110412 00:03:08< Soliton> you can post a comment though.
20110412 00:03:21< vjoe> cool
20110412 00:03:42< automagic> Jetrel: Not only the first image. In some animations the frames don't have the same size. Having to specify all these things by hand seems to be a little bit tedious. The main advantage of the tool over photoshop would be that every change would be instantly synchronized with the WML.
20110412 00:04:06< Jetrel> automagic:  no, all animations will be forced to have the same frame size.
20110412 00:04:15< Jetrel> within an animation, I mean.
20110412 00:05:29< Crab__> vjoe: is  map_context::set_starting_position_labels called correctly in there ?
20110412 00:05:53< vjoe> that's what I am checking
20110412 00:05:53< Jetrel> i've got to take a break from typing, my rsi is kicking in. :(
20110412 00:05:55< Crab__> vjoe: e.g. via map_context::reset_starting_position_labels(display& disp) or in any other way
20110412 00:06:02< automagic> Well, I can imagine some situations where that would make the spritesheet unnecessarily large - essentially all the frames would have to be scaled to the largest one.
20110412 00:06:03< vjoe> it took me a while to understand load_map
20110412 00:06:05< automagic> Jetrel: Ok.
20110412 00:06:31< vjoe> the thing is Crab__ 
20110412 00:06:39< vjoe> the labels appear when you add a new one
20110412 00:06:46< vjoe> that means that it works fine in 
20110412 00:06:51< vjoe>  editor_controller::refresh_after_action
20110412 00:07:06< vjoe> line 801 to 803
20110412 00:07:38< vjoe> my guess atm is that it has something to do with the map context constructor
20110412 00:08:00< Jetrel> automagic:  right, and you need to just do things they way I tell you.  Yes, it's going to cause a small loss of space in some rare instances (the wraith attack comes to mind), no, this isn't going to be significant.  This will probably cost us maybe ... 1% of our data size.  If that.
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20110412 00:09:32< Qbunia_> Crab__ i mean is there any function like move in cpp?
20110412 00:09:32< automagic> Jetrel: I would rather focus on the cost of displaying and processing bigger frames in game. I don't know however how significant the differences would be.
20110412 00:09:54< Crab__> Qbunia: movement and other ai actions are in src/actions.cpp
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20110412 00:10:18< Crab__> Qbunia: they are available to c++ code via the ai context, (readwrite_context, to be specific ), src/ai/contexts.cpp
20110412 00:10:24< Jetrel> automagic:  options and over-generalized software are bad.  Selective simplification of the internal representation allows us to grossly simplify both the markup AND allows us to make more aggressive optimizations in-game.
20110412 00:10:29< zaroth> Soliton: current clock in MP is completely based on client sincerity, am I right?
20110412 00:10:44< Soliton> i think so, yes.
20110412 00:10:48< zaroth> thanks
20110412 00:11:24< Soliton> there is some bug/fr related to that iirc.
20110412 00:12:01< zaroth> were, my concern was actually if it wouldn't break when run locally
20110412 00:12:11< zaroth> s/were/well/
20110412 00:12:37< Soliton> why?
20110412 00:12:44< Crab__> vjoe: well, it's possible that the labels are not reset, or the reset flag is not property set on map load.
20110412 00:12:57< zaroth> because during discussion with YogiHH of possible problems with merging SP/MP clock cropped up 
20110412 00:12:58< Jetrel> automagic:  basically, just do what I'm telling you, because otherwise I'm going to throw your work out later when I'm (later forced to) rewrite this.  Don't try to impose your own goals on this project - I am your primary user - I write more animation WML that anyone else combined.  I have drawn well in excess of 60% of our sprites.  I want this syntax to be a certain way, and if I dictate that, it's going to be the way we do it.
20110412 00:12:59< vjoe> Crab__: yep
20110412 00:13:09< vjoe> however
20110412 00:13:12< Crab__> vjoe: the way to check would be to debug/add print statements to all the places where it's supposed to be done, and see what'll happen
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20110412 00:13:29< zaroth> Soliton: it's not a big problem in any way, but since you were there, I wanted to confirm my assumptions ;-)
20110412 00:13:40< Jetrel> I want it to be really REALLY terse at the expense of flexibility.  I also want it to be amenable to a later switch to an exclusive OpenGL backend.
20110412 00:13:54< Soliton> zaroth: i didn't see that discussion so that's not telling me a lot but ok... :-)
20110412 00:14:02< automagic> Jetrel: I'm not trying to force anyone to anything. I'm just discussing options.
20110412 00:14:19< zaroth> Soliton: it's because I'm doing it with him on priv, I'll post it on my wiki page later ;-)
20110412 00:14:27< zaroth> it'd dominate the channel :P
20110412 00:14:29< vjoe> Crab__: yep, that's what I am doing
20110412 00:14:36< Crab__> vjoe: ok, good luck then :)))
20110412 00:14:40< vjoe> np
20110412 00:14:47< Soliton> zaroth: note that there is #wesnoth-mp, btw. ;-)
20110412 00:14:51< vjoe> I mean, thanks :D
20110412 00:15:35 * zaroth notices
20110412 00:15:49< Jetrel> automagic:  I'm just really angry because I've laid out exacting plans about this stuff over IRC before, and it's like I'm dealing with a bumbling group of absent-minded professors who 1] can't remember what I told them, and 2] really don't give a shit because they'd rather do it their way anyhow, damn the consequences for the end-user.
20110412 00:16:05< Jetrel> automagic:  sorry about being gruff. :)
20110412 00:16:12< automagic> Jetrel: I have read your article about lead artists and you surely are adequate for the role :)
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20110412 00:18:04< automagic> Jetrel: I wouldn't want to write something useless, but also I would prefer to rather adapt my idea than completely change it.
20110412 00:18:26< Jetrel> Yeah, I'm also a bit unusual in being a capable programmer, as well.  I'm loathe to dabble in wesnoth's code because it's a bit of a spaghetti beast, with large tracts that are more or less deprecated, or are in various states of being reworked for a bunch of people's personal projects.
20110412 00:18:29< automagic> Thats why I'm asking all these questions and being annoying
20110412 00:19:10< MGoods|RangerM> Ah, Crab :), just in time for me to go to sleep. I need to do some patches to show that i can actually code for my GSoC proposal and the feedback I got said 'Ask Crab_ which ones you should do'. Could you point me at some, and maybe mention which one to do first? As I've said I've got uni exams soon and they do take priority so I may not be able to do much and would rather work on what best shows 
20110412 00:19:12< MGoods|RangerM> what I can do
20110412 00:19:49< Jetrel> automagic:   anyways, I'll come up with a counter-proposal, a bit later.  I'm open to ideas, I just am not open to "compromises";  that is, if you have ways to improve it, that's cool, but I'm not interested in fundamentally watering-down the core values of the idea.
20110412 00:20:52< automagic> Jetrel: Do you think the tool has absolutely no use for the project?
20110412 00:21:00< automagic> s/tool/tool idea/
20110412 00:21:35< Jetrel> Yeah, if you're doing actual sliding around of images in it - that's just crazy
20110412 00:22:05< automagic> Everyone seemed to like the idea
20110412 00:22:17< Jetrel> No one is ever going to use that, because photoshop is better at that (photoshop has a bunch of subtle-image-recognition algorithms that line up stuff with similar pixels.
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20110412 00:23:01< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: a good and relatively simple thing is to expose some C++ object to lua ai.
20110412 00:23:37< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: for example, see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/lua/core.cpp?r1=48153&r2=48991
20110412 00:24:04< Jetrel> automagic:  does this vocal "everyone" include any artists who make significant amounts of art for the game, or are you listening to an irc channel full of programmers fapping to a "neat idea that's absolutely useless in practice?"
20110412 00:24:37< MGoods|RangerM> ok, I will take a look tomorrow morning, thanks, and gnight all
20110412 00:24:38< automagic> Jetrel: Well yes, but having the tool do all the necessary stuff can be useful for people who want to make some changes but don't know a) how to use photoshop or b) what parts exactly have to be changed for the whole thing to work.
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20110412 00:25:07< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: std::vector<target> default_ai_context_impl::find_targets
20110412 00:25:18< Jetrel> automagic:  who the hell is going to edit our images who isn't an artist?
20110412 00:25:25< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: this method (from default ai context) gives us a list of targets (each target is location+ value)
20110412 00:25:32< Jetrel> Why would they ever need to?
20110412 00:25:36< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: a good patch would be to make this info available to lua ai.
20110412 00:26:03< Jetrel> Our images - indeed our animation definitions at all, are only ever changed when an artist draws new ones.
20110412 00:26:18< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: you will need to ensure that lua engine receives a composite ai context and passes it to the lua action handlers, so they'll be able to use it.
20110412 00:26:34< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: and you'll need to pick a good representation for targets in lua
20110412 00:26:51< Crab__> MGoods|RangerM: I can help with the first part, if needed.
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20110412 00:27:23< Jetrel> automagic:  seriously, the only time anyone adds or changes ANYTHING in a spritesheet is when they're 1] an artist like me, 2] redrawing or enhancing an animation
20110412 00:27:24< Crab__> so, for the second part, you can just assume 'loc(1,1) is a target with value 3 of type MASS_ATTACK; loc(4,4) is a target with value 5 of type SUPPORT'
20110412 00:28:00< Jetrel> automagic:  So it's like .. I understand you're trying to make an excellent tool for that use case - but that use case doesn't exist!
20110412 00:28:20< vjoe> Crab__: do you know if gui().reload_map(); is responsible for drawing the map on the screen?
20110412 00:28:24< vjoe> hm..
20110412 00:28:55< automagic> Jetrel: I understand.
20110412 00:29:01< Jetrel> Unless you're adding animations, there is no need to edit a spritesheet - people don't just "move sprites around for fun".
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20110412 00:29:52< Crab__> vjoe: no, it's not responsible for that, I think that it just causes a redraw as a side effect
20110412 00:29:59< vjoe> right, i've decided, it is a variable whic is not set
20110412 00:30:35< Crab__> vjoe: see refresh_all(), it's called by reload_map
20110412 00:31:27< Jetrel> automagic:  the only cause would be optimization for space, and because (if you backport it from frogatto) we already have a texture-atlasing tool, that obliterates any possible space optimization any human could ever do by hand.
20110412 00:31:52< vjoe> yep
20110412 00:31:56< vjoe> i have just edited it
20110412 00:32:09< vjoe> Crab__: if you help me it's too easy :P
20110412 00:32:30< automagic> Jetrel: My original proposal focused on stochastic optimization of packing regarding total volume.
20110412 00:32:36< Crab__> vjoe: :)
20110412 00:32:38< fendrin> vjoe: hi
20110412 00:32:43< Jetrel> automagic:  e.g.  http://frogatto.com/svn/trunk/images/compiled-2.png
20110412 00:32:48< vjoe> hey fendrin 
20110412 00:32:57< vjoe> im still working on that bug
20110412 00:33:00< vjoe> getting closer though
20110412 00:33:06< vjoe> i'm a wiz on the map editor code, now
20110412 00:33:07< vjoe> haha
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20110412 00:34:28< vjoe> WORKS
20110412 00:34:30< vjoe> !!!
20110412 00:34:39< vjoe> not sure it is the cleanest way though
20110412 00:35:20< vjoe> fendrin: adding  get_map_context().set_needs_labels_reset(true); to refresh_all solves the bug
20110412 00:35:36< vjoe> however, I want to see if I set the flag a bit earlier in the chain
20110412 00:35:55< vjoe> when it is acknowledge that a new map has been loaded
20110412 00:36:42< vjoe> hm
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20110412 00:36:54< vjoe> i think i've got it
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20110412 00:39:13< Jetrel> automagic:  your business about those image modification functors is cool, though.
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20110412 00:39:58< automagic> Jetrel: I'm glad you like the idea.
20110412 00:40:00< vjoe> yeah
20110412 00:40:00< vjoe> nice
20110412 00:40:01< vjoe> got it
20110412 00:40:04< vjoe> fendrin: are you around?
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20110412 00:40:22< fendrin> vjoe: yes
20110412 00:40:38< vjoe> ok
20110412 00:40:53< vjoe> adding get_map_context().set_needs_labels_reset(true); to line 706 also solves the bug
20110412 00:40:57< Jetrel> anyways, the rsi is getting dangerous, I -have- to remove the temptation to keep typing here.
20110412 00:40:57< vjoe> and it is obviously cleaner
20110412 00:41:04< vjoe> however, I think we can do better
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20110412 00:41:17< vjoe> what does mc.release() on line 704 do?
20110412 00:41:28< vjoe> I'm not getting it
20110412 00:42:03< fendrin> vjoe: the .release is a method of the smart pointer.
20110412 00:42:10< vjoe> oh
20110412 00:42:16< vjoe> hm
20110412 00:42:20< vjoe> i will read about that then
20110412 00:42:26< vjoe> is the official name smart pointer?
20110412 00:42:35< vjoe> i will read tomorrow at work
20110412 00:42:41< vjoe> thing is fendrin 
20110412 00:42:46< fendrin> vjoe: I can do more if you do not only provide a line put also a filename.
20110412 00:42:48< vjoe> if u go to line 694
20110412 00:42:54< vjoe> hm
20110412 00:42:56< vjoe> makes sense!
20110412 00:42:57< vjoe> :D
20110412 00:43:03< vjoe> editor_controller.cpp
20110412 00:43:11< vjoe> it is for https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?17956
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20110412 00:44:51< vjoe> the thing is, even though adding get_map_context().set_needs_labels_reset(true); to line 706 works, it is better if we change the map_context constructor
20110412 00:44:54< fendrin> vjoe: Yes, every pointer that is not a pure pointer but somewhow wrapped through a class is a smart pointer. Like boost shared_ptr for example.
20110412 00:45:15< vjoe> to set the labels reset as true
20110412 00:45:28< fendrin> sounds reasonable.
20110412 00:45:51< vjoe> i'm quite proud of myself :P
20110412 00:46:05< vjoe> i had never fixed an open source bug before
20110412 00:46:07< vjoe> eheh
20110412 00:46:16< vjoe> well, i'm lying, i did some stuff for smf
20110412 00:46:17< fendrin> :-)
20110412 00:46:20< vjoe> but that was liek 6 years ago
20110412 00:46:32< vjoe> and it was for some plugins, so much less code
20110412 00:46:35< vjoe> one file, not 100000000000
20110412 00:46:36< vjoe> :P
20110412 00:46:43< vjoe> and php is a bit easier too 
20110412 00:46:44< vjoe> eheh
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20110412 00:50:09< vjoe> btw fendrin 
20110412 00:50:16< vjoe> i am a bit confused with the syntax in map_context
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20110412 00:50:41< vjoe> basically, func():a,b,c{}
20110412 00:50:45< vjoe> what is a b and c?
20110412 00:50:46< vjoe> hm..
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20110412 00:51:51< shadowmaster> are you sure you don't mean foo::foo() : field1(), field2(), field3() { ... } ?
20110412 00:53:30< fendrin> vjoe: Do talk about the constructor syntax?
20110412 00:55:00< vjoe> oh
20110412 00:55:06< vjoe> yeah shadowmaster 
20110412 00:55:09< shadowmaster> What I just mentioned is formally called an initialization list, by the way
20110412 00:55:19< vjoe> hmm
20110412 00:55:20< vjoe> right
20110412 00:55:37< vjoe> so it sets some values
20110412 00:55:45< vjoe> why not setting them in the function body?
20110412 00:55:59< shadowmaster> http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/ctors.html#faq-10.6
20110412 00:57:00< vjoe> yes
20110412 00:57:03< vjoe> thanks shadowmaster 
20110412 00:57:07< vjoe> anyway, it is weird guys
20110412 00:57:18< vjoe> on line 65 of map_context
20110412 00:57:23< shadowmaster> Another thing: if the language provides a special syntax to do something (say, C++ templates as opposed to macros), you'd better take advantage of it instead of reinventing techniques.
20110412 00:57:32< vjoe> setting needs_labels_reset to true doesnt solve the bug
20110412 00:57:33< vjoe> hm...
20110412 00:57:48< vjoe> yes
20110412 00:57:49< vjoe> true
20110412 00:58:48< vjoe> fendrin: is it ok if I post a comment on the bug page with what I found tonight?
20110412 00:58:57< vjoe> i need to go to zzz
20110412 00:59:07< fendrin> vjoe: sure, please do so
20110412 00:59:10< vjoe> cool
20110412 00:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 198 bugs, 310 feature requests, 22 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110412 01:05:56< vjoe> ah nice
20110412 01:05:58< vjoe> my comment is there
20110412 01:06:04< vjoe> cool
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20110412 01:06:09< vjoe> right guys, im off to bed
20110412 01:06:21< vjoe> will be back tomorrow to complete the task!
20110412 01:06:32< vjoe> btw fendrin are u around for the rest of the week?
20110412 01:06:47< vjoe> it would be nice to chat a bit more on the mp/sp unification
20110412 01:06:47< fendrin> vjoe: Yes
20110412 01:06:57< vjoe> as in, move to concrete stuff
20110412 01:06:57< vjoe> eheh
20110412 01:07:10< fendrin> I will be around at least during the European evening.
20110412 01:07:13< vjoe> awesome, then
20110412 01:07:16< vjoe> yeah, im in london 
20110412 01:07:20< vjoe> so it's good
20110412 01:07:32< vjoe> right, good night!
20110412 01:07:36< fendrin> Bye.
20110412 01:07:44< vjoe> i'll read about smart pointers tomorrow
20110412 01:07:53< vjoe> i'm gonna be an expert on them when i come back to irc
20110412 01:07:54< vjoe> :=
20110412 01:07:55< vjoe> :)
20110412 01:07:58< vjoe> cya
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20110412 02:04:16< AI0867> Espreon: textdomain?
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20110412 02:43:03< fendrin> hi AI0867
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20110412 04:00:12< Aethaeryn> Finally!
20110412 04:00:32< Aethaeryn> Wesnoth time!
20110412 04:09:07< shadowmaster> Espreon: please see the most recent messagei n the dev ML
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20110412 04:16:18< Aethaeryn> shadowmaster: the one on the desert elves?
20110412 04:16:31< shadowmaster> you are not Espreon
20110412 04:16:58< Aethaeryn> Yeah, but he's going to wind up asking me for input anyway since I'm apparently his #1 playtester.
20110412 04:17:05< Aethaeryn> Espreon: Am I your #1 playtester?
20110412 04:17:38< shadowmaster> This is not a matter of playtesting.
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20110412 04:32:49< CIA-82> fendrin * r49182 /branches/editor/src/ (24 files in 5 dirs): Encapsulated the overlay item code in it's own class.
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20110412 05:22:04< Espreon> Aethaeryn: Maybe.
20110412 05:24:02< Espreon> shadowmaster: Perhaps I could use this person for slave labor.
20110412 05:24:12< Espreon> That'd be grand.
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20110412 06:57:14< CIA-82> espreon * r49183 /trunk/po/wesnoth/ang@latin.po: Updated the Old English translation.
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20110412 08:07:00< epyon>  woah!
20110412 08:07:21< Espreon> What?
20110412 08:07:35< shadowmaster> Yes, IRC is an amazing thing.
20110412 08:07:47< epyon> I just noticed that the _ markers are no problem for Lua :D
20110412 08:08:01 * epyon loves Lua
20110412 08:08:16< Espreon> What exactly do you mean?
20110412 08:08:27< timotei> Espreon: he tries to convert WML into Lua :P
20110412 08:09:43< epyon> Espreon, http://pastebin.com/2xQ2rB0U
20110412 08:10:06< Espreon> timotei: I knew that.
20110412 08:10:24< Espreon> epyon: Kewl.
20110412 08:10:58< epyon> Espreon, yeah, no idea why I didn't notice that in the beginning O.o
20110412 08:11:41< timotei> epyon: wow, lua doesn't require you to put the ( ) when calling a function? :P
20110412 08:11:53< epyon> timotei, in one special case
20110412 08:12:06< epyon> if there is a string-literal single argument
20110412 08:12:12< timotei> ohxD
20110412 08:12:26< epyon> what is actually really cool because you can do crazy syntax extensions this way :)
20110412 08:12:39< epyon> while still keeping the parser LR-compatible
20110412 08:14:28< epyon> the same syntax can be used to generate a pot file :)
20110412 08:29:56 * epyon wants to catch Crab_ and mordante :(
20110412 08:30:35< timotei> epyon: you'll have to wait for mordante about 10 hours or so
20110412 08:30:43< timotei> and Crab_ might enter somewhere in the time.
20110412 08:30:51< epyon> I might fall asleep before that :/
20110412 08:31:11< epyon> timotei, any comments on my proposal from yourself?
20110412 08:32:01< timotei> I'm just a student. but from my PoV, a code prototype would greatly help
20110412 08:32:18< timotei> that is prototype that converts wml to lua
20110412 08:32:19< timotei> nothing fancy
20110412 08:32:50< epyon> timotei, done that already, although only into Lua tables, without any output yet
20110412 08:33:00< timotei> ah
20110412 08:33:00< timotei> ok
20110412 08:33:24< epyon> timotei, and in terms of benefits for the project?
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20110412 08:35:05< timotei> well, I'm not much into WML or Lua, so IDK. I'm just a developer who like programming and doesn't mind working in lua. The UMC creators out there are the ones who matter :)
20110412 08:35:06< timotei> Afan: hi
20110412 08:35:11< timotei> Afan: use: http://webchat.freenode.net/
20110412 08:35:23< timotei> Afan: and maybe you won't get disconnected anymore
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20110412 08:37:32< Espreon> timotei: He's going to keep things nice and readable.
20110412 08:40:14< tschmitz> Espreon: You mean by making sure there are occasional joined/quit messages interspersed?
20110412 08:43:42< Espreon> LOL, wut?
20110412 08:46:07< zaroth> Soliton: (and others whom it may concern) my yesterday's discussion with YogiHH went here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements#Difficulties
20110412 08:46:24< zaroth> mordante: ^ , since you like reading irc logs ;-)
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20110412 08:58:56< ancestral> zaroth: This (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements#Control_panel) — about time!
20110412 08:59:16< zaroth> ancestral: beta version is already in trunk :-)
20110412 08:59:24< ancestral> Thank you
20110412 09:00:11< zaroth> right now it's not wired to GUI menu, so it may still be difficult to explain over network "where to type this :give_control" (current command for invoking CP dialog)
20110412 09:00:18< zaroth> but it will be once it's ready :-)
20110412 09:02:44< ancestral> Not sure if it would fit nicely or not, but muting a player could possibly be placed into that dialog too
20110412 09:02:58< ancestral> (and subsequently, unmuting)
20110412 09:03:16< zaroth> true words, didn't think of that
20110412 09:03:52< ancestral> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CommandMode
20110412 09:04:32< ancestral> I suppose kick too
20110412 09:05:18< zaroth> ancestral: added the idea to my proposal, however I'm not sure whether I'll be able to tackle it during the GSoC
20110412 09:05:42< zaroth> so the proposal page became a page of both GSoC proposal and to-do list after it ;-)
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20110412 09:06:08< ancestral> Oh, it's been a while for me… if the host drops the connection, who becomes host?
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20110412 09:06:41< ancestral> It seems to me (if not now, then in the past) there's no way to recover
20110412 09:06:57< zaroth> the reason is that in MP/SP unification there are monsters, as for example getting the savegames right (YogiHH pointed out to me yesterday that different code handles SP and MP saves and e.g. getting recalls right can be a nightmare)
20110412 09:07:19< zaroth> ancestral: host rights are passed arbitraly to someone
20110412 09:07:32< zaroth> how is this someone chosen, I'm not sure, I'd have to peek in the server code
20110412 09:08:14< ancestral> I would think the best case would be to assign it to a host's ally… but I digress
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20110412 09:11:38< ancestral> zaroth: You're also looking at a new MP creation dialog?
20110412 09:12:55< zaroth> ancestral: fundamental to my proposal is unification of MP/SP gaming aspects in the engine
20110412 09:13:03< zaroth> sure, there will be GUI changes
20110412 09:13:17< zaroth> but not sure if I find time for the complete revamp
20110412 09:13:36< zaroth> again, it depends on how many difficulties do I meet when trying the engine to work flawlessly
20110412 09:14:25< zaroth> you may want to have a look in this topic, especially if you're interested in WML aspect of things: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33540
20110412 09:16:23< zaroth> btw who was the mentor of the new lobby project?
20110412 09:16:29< ancestral> This reminds me of a discussion
20110412 09:16:53< zaroth> I guess I could use his expertise when discussing big GUI revamps ;-)
20110412 09:17:06< shadowmaster> mordante
20110412 09:17:27< ancestral> FR here: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13512 Discussion here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26138
20110412 09:18:10< ancestral> I'll shut up if this isn't relevant to your project :)
20110412 09:18:39< zaroth> mordante, mordante... sounds familiar :-)
20110412 09:18:53< zaroth> I gues I'm already (ab)using his experienced advice
20110412 09:21:29< zaroth> ancestral: it's not connected to my main project ideas, no
20110412 09:22:03< zaroth> but I guess I could use any advice when I get to doing some overall revamp, like I already very much like this idea: http://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=15798
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20110412 09:24:17< zaroth> it's always kind of nice to know what ideas people have regarding your area of work, since when you eventually get to doing that, you have broader scope of view and are less likely to make your implementation limited to extensions
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20110412 09:24:52< zaroth> (which is never a good thing)
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20110412 10:30:57< Ivanovic> moin
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20110412 10:43:59< Ivanovic> boucman, Crab_, fendrin, gabba, mordante: hopefully you read the announcement mail from carols about slot allocation
20110412 10:45:11< Ivanovic> especially important is the ASAP part in step three
20110412 10:45:30< Ivanovic> and we should discuss *really soon* if what i have done for step 1 suits you, too
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20110412 11:53:16< Nephro> Morning
20110412 11:53:28< Nephro> Any docs on the config class usage available?
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20110412 12:10:29< Nephro> I need to plug a boost::shared_ptr<T> in the config, is that eve possible?
20110412 12:10:53< epyon> plug? in what way?
20110412 12:12:11< epyon> woah, it's a very special Gagarin day today :D
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20110412 12:17:43< Nephro> epyon, well, just add it there, so it is accessible
20110412 12:18:11< Nephro> Morning, Crab_ 
20110412 12:19:08< Crab_> hello, Nephro
20110412 12:23:07< epyon> Crab_, finally :)
20110412 12:24:02< Crab_> hi, epyon
20110412 12:24:37< epyon> Crab_, I wanted to ask you, what exactly are you expecting, in regards to your comment on my application
20110412 12:26:31< Crab_> epyon: depends on you. as you see, there are different opinions about the viability of your application, and at least some of the comments are of 'it's too hard!' variety. so, I wanted you to show that it is not that hard from a technical point of view.
20110412 12:27:19< Crab_> epyon: and one of the easiest ways to do that is to add an optional way to load scenarios from lua, to show how it'll work and what the advantages are.
20110412 12:27:43< Crab_> epyon: since 'wml to lua' and 'lua to wml' were already implemented ages ago by silene, it's easy enough to do.
20110412 12:28:04< epyon> Crab_, link?
20110412 12:28:28< Crab_> epyon: the docs at the wiki, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML#Encoding_WML_objects_into_Lua_tables
20110412 12:29:00< Crab_> epyon: i.e. you can print scenario config in lua form from within the game without having to change a single C++ line.
20110412 12:29:10< epyon> because I'm afraid the implementation completely disregards translation, macros, dynamic WML and a lot of other stuff
20110412 12:29:46< epyon> the current wml to lua lua to wml just allows basic WML tables to be translated
20110412 12:30:44< Crab_> epyon: it's possible to base on it and extend. for exampl, using a slightly modified preprocessor to translate macros to special WML blocks.
20110412 12:32:00< epyon> moreover the proposed syntax is not exactly what I would call human-readable :/
20110412 12:32:14< Crab_> epyon: yes, exactly.
20110412 12:32:35< epyon> Crab_, I did some work however
20110412 12:32:44< epyon> I've written a parses for WML files in Lua
20110412 12:33:11< epyon> Still needs a few things fleshed out but it might be a good sample
20110412 12:33:23< Crab_> epyon: so, this will change your proposal, since atm the main point is 'use lua instead of WML', but, actually, using lua instead of WML is not a problem, the real potential work is in possible simplifications
20110412 12:33:45< epyon> Crab_, can you load a scenario from a Lua file?
20110412 12:34:14< epyon> So it's not exactly possible at the moment :)
20110412 12:34:49< epyon> The real problem here is that even if using this method, the Lua will be converted to WML, hence will retain all it's downsides
20110412 12:36:19< Crab_> epyon: to load a 'full' scenario from a lua file, you can code a small hack to replace the scenario config if it contains, say, a replace_from_lua="file name.lua" attribute at toplevel
20110412 12:36:43< Crab_> epyon: or you can add a command-line switch which'll load a test scenario from lua in a specific way
20110412 12:36:44< epyon> but it will still be converted to WML
20110412 12:36:49< Crab_> epyon: yes.
20110412 12:37:10< Crab_> epyon: to config objects
20110412 12:37:12< Nephro> Crab_, is it ok to ask the lua engine to give it's lua_ai_context to an aspect?
20110412 12:37:50< Crab_> Nephro: readonly_context is ok, everything higher should be done with caution.
20110412 12:38:31< Crab_> epyon: config objects are not WML per se.
20110412 12:39:20< Nephro> Crab_, well, if we want to process aspect code in lua_ai_context, we have to somehow transfer it to the action handlers, since they know nothing about the contexts and the is one lua_ai_context per engine
20110412 12:39:43< Crab_> Nephro: ok, do that, then, for now
20110412 12:41:01< Crab_> Nephro: the problem is like this: lua_ai_context contains stuff to do attacks. so, if you pass lua_ai_context (+ the corresponding lua table) to aspect code, it would be technically able to do attacks, which is not that good.
20110412 12:41:11< Crab_> Nephro: so, we'll have reduced error checking that way.
20110412 12:43:57< Nephro> Crab_, ai::lua_ai_action_handler* LuaKernel::create_lua_ai_action_handler(char const *code, ai::lua_ai_context &context) -- this thing obviously want's a context to be passed to it. Another solution I just thought about, is to create the action handlers in the engine code, but that would also be weird. We have to make decisions restricted by the current design
20110412 12:44:49< Nephro> restricted doesn
20110412 12:44:55< Nephro> doesn't fit there does it
20110412 12:45:08< Crab_> yes
20110412 12:45:09< Nephro> should use another word, but can't remember :)
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20110412 15:20:04< Nephro> How do I post an image to my wiki page?
20110412 15:20:57< zookeeper> by linking to the image, which you post/host somewhere else.
20110412 15:21:55< Nephro> I tried, but it doesn't display the image, instead it outputs [1] as a link to it
20110412 15:23:09< Nephro> Oh, got it, not [] needed
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20110412 16:32:20< Nephro> Crab_, I've significantly extended my proposal page. Should I post that as a comment in the google proposal page?
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20110412 16:32:36< Crab_> yes
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20110412 16:44:37< Nephro> Crab_, done... Also there are these buttons above the proposal "Resubmit"... Should that be pressed or you'll receive the notifications anyway?
20110412 16:45:46< Crab_> I've already received the notification
20110412 16:46:15< Nephro> Crab_, I need to run off for 2 hours or so, I'd be very thankful if you'd skim through the page and leave some feedbacks, maybe I'll repair something there before the other mentors reach it :)
20110412 16:46:42< Nephro> I'll try to add some pur technical info in the evening
20110412 16:46:46< Nephro> pure*
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20110412 16:48:21 * Nephro afk till 19 CET
20110412 16:49:31< Crab_> ok
20110412 16:56:35< Crab_> Nephro: I've read through the page, don't see anything that needs big amount of fixes
20110412 16:57:17< Crab_> Nephro: maybe, the plans might be a little more detailed wrt the way that the Lua AI would be used (i.e. example usage code)
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20110412 17:00:27< timotei> wow. Cormen's book amazes me the more I read it through
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20110412 18:50:59< timotei> Guys, in case you are interested: http://www.humblebundle.com/
20110412 19:00:17< zaroth__> timotei: is it third edition?!
20110412 19:00:22< timotei> zaroth__: yeah
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20110412 19:00:32< zaroth> they're fast ;-)
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20110412 19:57:18< Aethaeryn> Crab_: How much more detail is necessary?
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20110412 19:58:19< Crab_> Aethaeryn: as much as you can reasonably give. hey, the students will be selected in a week, so that's very important to show your best ) after that, you can even pause till the end of may to recover, reading the code and making plans 
20110412 19:58:37< Aethaeryn> Crab_: And should I start submitting patches now or in a week?
20110412 19:58:50< Crab_> Aethaeryn: now.
20110412 19:58:57< Crab_> Aethaeryn: it might be too late in a week.
20110412 19:59:15< Aethaeryn> ok
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20110412 20:00:35< Crab_> how's your lua message boxes going ?
20110412 20:01:11< Disruption> Hi devs! =)
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20110412 20:02:59< fendrin> hi inferno8
20110412 20:03:05< inferno8> hi
20110412 20:03:13< Aethaeryn> Crab_: I'm going to try to get the patch in ASAP then I'll fill in more depth on the wiki page since I think at this point code sample is more important.
20110412 20:03:43< Crab_> Aethaeryn: ok.
20110412 20:03:48< Aethaeryn> I changed the design a bit though when I did the wiki page
20110412 20:03:58< Crab_> Aethaeryn: but make sure your reply in gsoc site is always the 'latest' one :)
20110412 20:04:10< Crab_> Aethaeryn: if there are dev comments, responding to them is very important
20110412 20:04:14< Aethaeryn> ah
20110412 20:04:42< fendrin> inferno8: As I already told via PM, I am currently working on adding some features to the editor.
20110412 20:05:17< fendrin> I have already implemented the placement of [item]. More work regarding overlays is worth thinking about.
20110412 20:05:47< fendrin> inferno8: I summoned you since you seem to make the most advanced Wesnoth maps.
20110412 20:05:52< Aethaeryn> Crab_: I'll reply when I have a patch ready then?
20110412 20:06:01< Crab_> good
20110412 20:06:11< fendrin> Is there any feature you would want to see that eases your work?
20110412 20:06:14< Crab_> hi, Disruption
20110412 20:07:28< inferno8> fendrin: The ability to see background art should make things a lot easier
20110412 20:08:49< fendrin> That means supporting the [terrain_graphics] tag.
20110412 20:08:51< fendrin> ?
20110412 20:09:06< inferno8> That's right.
20110412 20:09:26< fendrin> Are you fine with still coding the [terrain_graphics] per hand in a text editor and only see it on the map in the editor?
20110412 20:09:45< fendrin> Or do you see the need for a placement tool for [terrain_graphics]?
20110412 20:09:57 * boucman wonders if it's possible to really fill the [terrain_graphics] in a visual way...
20110412 20:11:08< fendrin> boucman: What problems to you see?
20110412 20:11:17< inferno8> It would be cool to make the process of coding background art a lot easier by designing a special tool.
20110412 20:11:55< boucman> what's complicated with terrain_graphics is the way all the layers and macros interact, so any graphical tools that don't allow to visually see how the tags interact wouldn't be that usefull...
20110412 20:12:28< fendrin> good point.
20110412 20:13:04< fendrin> So I will work on only displaying them first. With a switch that makes them transparent so the designer can still the terrain below it.
20110412 20:13:19< fendrin> see*
20110412 20:14:39< fendrin> inferno8: Is there anything you need beside the support for [terrain_graphics]?
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20110412 20:15:33< fendrin> And maybe a placement tool for them if possible.
20110412 20:18:08< inferno8> All I want for now is to have background art displayed in the editor window and to have a tool, which would allow me to generate terrain codes in a more convinient way.
20110412 20:19:27< fendrin> A tool to generate terrain codes. That is worth thinking about. Can you imagine how that tool would work from a user point of view. I will take care about the implementation details.
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20110412 20:24:05< inferno8> A long time ago I wrote a C++ console application, which generated necessary [tile][/tile] tags for me. You entered width and height of a map (in hexes) and it showed the code.
20110412 20:24:42< inferno8> Currently this application is outdated.
20110412 20:25:19< inferno8> Alarantalara found a better and easier way of coding backgrounds
20110412 20:25:56< inferno8> But I can't figure it out :P
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20110412 20:26:23< fendrin> inferno8: Can you sent me your c++ code via pm? Alarantalara is missing?
20110412 20:27:09< inferno8> fendrin: Yes, I can send you this, but as I said it is outdated.
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20110412 20:28:38< fendrin> No problem, I will see if it inspires me.
20110412 20:29:43< inferno8> Done.
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20110412 20:30:28< vjoe> hey!
20110412 20:30:42< Crab_> hi, vjoe
20110412 20:31:21< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: when you change something in the wiki make sure to comment in the proposal stating that you changed something (possible also mentioning the area)
20110412 20:31:33< Ivanovic> then we will get a notification and can actually *check* what you changed
20110412 20:31:38< vjoe> will finish the bug fix from yesterday in a bit
20110412 20:31:40< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I'm working on the C code atm
20110412 20:31:42< Ivanovic> (it is basically impossible to monitor some 26 wiki pages)
20110412 20:31:45< vjoe> now it's time to make some food
20110412 20:31:47< vjoe> :)
20110412 20:31:50< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: just a general comment
20110412 20:31:58< Ivanovic> (something valid for *all* gsoc candidates!
20110412 20:32:16< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: From rereading the messages, I got the impression (could be wrong) that the most important thing in the next 24 hours for me is to get something working, compiling, and submitted as a proposed patch
20110412 20:32:20< Aethaeryn> I could be wrong.
20110412 20:32:36< Ivanovic> yes, you should do things rather soonish
20110412 20:32:45< Ivanovic> since we eventually have to do a "final" ranking meeting
20110412 20:33:38< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: by the end of this week?
20110412 20:34:13< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: i won't tell the explicit date, but the sooner stuff is there, the better
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20110412 20:35:04< Aethaeryn> ok
20110412 20:35:18< Crab_> Ivanovic: note: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeStudents_IRC#List contains a nice spamlist :)
20110412 20:35:57< Ivanovic> Crab_: can't i directly tell nagbot to tell something to all candidates?
20110412 20:36:38< Ivanovic> meaning: nagbot: !students please make sure to react on the comments soonish since we need some time to review your improvements before judging and judging is "soon"
20110412 20:36:41< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, I think I could persuade it to do just that, tomorrow in the morning :) maybe he'll earn his place in the channel by doing that ;)
20110412 20:36:45< fendrin> inferno8: Thank you very much for the code and for your opinions on the matter. I will keep you informed about my progress on it :-)
20110412 20:37:53< inferno8> I'g glad I could help ;-)
20110412 20:38:05< inferno8> I'm*
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20110412 20:38:27< fendrin> inferno8: You did. I had never thought about [terrain_graphic] without having a look at TLU.
20110412 20:39:06< timotei> hmm, my nickname breaks the order
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20110412 20:40:34< inferno8> fendrin: I hope my work on new maps will never look like this: http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2795/workingonm173.jpg
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20110412 20:41:04< timotei> wow
20110412 20:41:10< fendrin> inferno8: I see. It looks like hard work.
20110412 20:41:11< inferno8> I had to do everything by hand. It took hours to finish a single map
20110412 20:41:14< timotei> inferno8: nice map :D
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20110412 20:41:31< inferno8> thanks ;-)
20110412 20:41:47< timotei> inferno8: is that "air"?
20110412 20:41:59< timotei> meaning, you can't get beyon the "islands" territory right?
20110412 20:42:14< inferno8> Right.
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20110412 20:43:39< inferno8> http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8210/workingonm172.jpg
20110412 20:44:28< fendrin> AI0867: Ping
20110412 20:46:46< Aethaeryn> Okay, I'll be back in a few hours.
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20110412 20:47:03< Aethaeryn> If no one is online, I'll just submit what I have working, the first part of Phase 0.
20110412 20:48:25< Crab_> ok
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20110412 20:49:00< timotei> inferno8: wow. nice :D
20110412 20:49:19< timotei> inferno8: and then you are creating the ... tiles from that?:P
20110412 20:50:16< inferno8> Yes, using [terrain_graphics] tag.
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20110412 20:52:17< boucman> inferno8: so you're the one that did that campaign
20110412 20:52:36< inferno8> boucman: Yes.
20110412 20:52:40< boucman> that's absolutely crazy, we were really impressed when Sirp showed it to us at FOSDEM
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20110412 20:53:09< inferno8> Well, I spent a year working on it.
20110412 20:55:23< timotei> wow
20110412 20:58:44< inferno8> I just wanted to show that the wesnoth graphic engine is capable of amazing things, I think I did it.
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20110412 21:01:08< mordante> servus
20110412 21:02:04< boucman> that you did indeed...
20110412 21:03:25< mordante> epyon, around now
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20110412 21:09:07< mordante> inferno8, indeed a great job on that campaign, I was really impressed when I saw it at the FOSDEM
20110412 21:09:34< inferno8> Thank you very much :-)
20110412 21:10:09< Mussious> Hello
20110412 21:10:21< Mussious> inferno, do you read private messages?
20110412 21:10:45< inferno8> Yes, why are you asking?
20110412 21:11:01-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110412 21:11:08< Mussious> But on IRC?
20110412 21:11:32< inferno8> Oh, now I see. Sorry, I'm new to IRC :P
20110412 21:12:05< Mussious> Ok, no problem, and welcome on IRC :)
20110412 21:14:29< timotei> hmm, interesting article: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2007/n2271.html .
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20110412 21:25:11< gabba> hi
20110412 21:25:35< timotei> hig ABCD 
20110412 21:25:36< timotei> hi gabba 
20110412 21:25:37< timotei> :P
20110412 21:25:51< timotei> autocomplete fail
20110412 21:26:15< gabba> hi timotei :)
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20110412 21:29:14< gabba> hey tschmitz
20110412 21:32:18< tschmitz> Hey gabba
20110412 21:33:03< gabba> tschmitz: how are you?
20110412 21:33:32< tschmitz> Unshowered
20110412 21:33:49< tschmitz> I was thinking of fixing that
20110412 21:33:59< gabba> ha ha
20110412 21:34:25< gabba> got any coding on the way?
20110412 21:35:11< tschmitz> Sadly not yet
20110412 21:35:13< tschmitz> I finished my program that was due yesterday and the one that's due today and completed a scholarship application that's due Friday
20110412 21:35:48< tschmitz> I have a little worksheet due Wednesday and I think two math assignments due Friday (at least one)
20110412 21:36:09< gabba> loaded with work like me I see
20110412 21:36:19< gabba> Don't let me keep you from showering :P
20110412 21:36:41< tschmitz> So my tentative plan was to (shower, and then) do those 3 things and then make something for wesnoth before the end of the weekend
20110412 21:36:54< gabba> But do upload some of your programs and link them on the private proposal page, so we can look at some of your work
20110412 21:37:07< tschmitz> I can do that
20110412 21:37:10< gabba> If you also code up something for wesnoth afterwards, all the better
20110412 21:37:22< tschmitz> but
20110412 21:37:36< tschmitz> Just wondering ...
20110412 21:37:53< tschmitz> what are you going to see by looking at my code?
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20110412 21:38:33< gabba> Well, obviously your entire psychological profile and your deepest secrets will be revealed
20110412 21:38:44< tschmitz> Right, of course
20110412 21:38:56< tschmitz> That's what I was expecting to happen
20110412 21:39:09< gabba> Ah, and also it'll just give us an overall idea of your programming abilities
20110412 21:39:20< tschmitz> I see
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20110412 21:39:33< tschmitz> so it'll just be a little reassurance that I have some implementation skills
20110412 21:39:38< tschmitz> on a kind of a basic level
20110412 21:39:44< gabba> Yep :)
20110412 21:40:34< tschmitz> I liked that joke, by the way
20110412 21:40:42< gabba> :P
20110412 21:42:17< tschmitz> You wouldn't happen to have heard of Processing, would you?
20110412 21:42:20< mordante> Sytyi, how are things going with your patch?
20110412 21:42:38< tschmitz> gabba: It's a tool for making Java Applets a little easier
20110412 21:42:55< gabba> tschmitz: Processing is a kind of graphical language related to Java, I think
20110412 21:43:37< tschmitz> gabba: my school uses it in one of the Java intro classes (that I didn't take); I used Processing to make my Tetris app though, back before I had been introduced to Java proper
20110412 21:43:41< gabba> ^or that, in less fancy terms
20110412 21:44:00< Sytyi> mordante: Hi. Writing data containers to save the hierarchy. I'm working only an hour cause of university stuf 
20110412 21:44:25< tschmitz> gabba: The Tetris app looks a lot more polished than the thingie I showed you with the jumping circles
20110412 21:44:59< tschmitz> gabba: but yeah, it's written in Processing, which ever so slightly hides the "real" Java language from the programmer (me)
20110412 21:45:10< Sytyi> mordante: Sorry, but I have an olimpiad in Friday. So I should to do the patch till Friday 6.00. 
20110412 21:45:29< mordante> Sytyi, ok, also feel free to commit a WIP patch we/I can give you feedback on it early
20110412 21:45:36< gabba> I'm curious to see a program written in Processing actually
20110412 21:45:50< Sytyi> mordante: What does mean WIP ?
20110412 21:45:56< mordante> work in progress
20110412 21:45:57< Sytyi> work in process&
20110412 21:46:20< Sytyi> mordante: I see. I hope this night will be enough. :)
20110412 21:46:36< mordante> would be great :-)
20110412 21:46:49< tschmitz> gabba: Basically it takes your code and uses it to make a subclass of PApplet, which is Processing's subclass of Applet
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20110412 21:47:37< gabba> tschmitz: you reminded me of this, btw, a nice graphics library to make java applets http://www.interactivepulp.com/pulpcore/
20110412 21:47:42< Sytyi> mordante: Ok, I'll upload the patch before leaving IRC. Than tomorrow you'll can read it before I come.
20110412 21:48:18< mordante> ok, not sure whether I will be around tomorrow, but I probably will find time to look at it at GNA
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20110412 21:50:19< gabba> anyways... going more or less afk, since I have a bunch of assignments to finish
20110412 21:50:23< tschmitz> gabba: I think there might be a problem with presenting my Tetris app as an example of my work, though,
20110412 21:50:42< gabba> tschmitz: why?
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20110412 21:50:46< tschmitz> gabba: which is that that appears to be before I had figured out that I could make classes in Processing
20110412 21:50:53< tschmitz> gabba: or at least that's my guess
20110412 21:51:13< tschmitz> gabba: I grepped for 'class' in my code and got no results ... hah
20110412 21:51:19< Sytyi> mordante: great. So I go back to code. I think I will make it as a stand alone project, cause I've no time to understand how to import some Wesnoth headers. 
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20110412 21:51:54< mordante> no problems can be a console application anyway
20110412 21:52:10< mordante> so no need to include Wesnoth headers
20110412 21:52:22< mordante> also it's meant as proof of concept
20110412 21:52:26< tschmitz> gabba: There's minimal commenting
20110412 21:52:40< gabba> tschmitz: well, the most important is to show that you can realize a medium-scale project
20110412 21:53:17< gabba> but you get to pick what you upload, so you can also pick some samples and say "this represents better the level I'm at now", and so on
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20110412 21:54:44< Sytyi> mordante: I will make the simpliest to do list, then improve some places
20110412 21:54:49< mordante> Aethaeryn is your proposal finished?
20110412 21:55:06< Sytyi> mordante: Like binary search in data containers, so else
20110412 21:55:46< mordante> Sytyi, the task is not about creating the fastest possible code, so best use the standard C++ containers for storing your data
20110412 21:57:06< Sytyi> mordante: Yes, of cause, vector, but I want to keep tags sorted by name. and And add to sorted vector can be done in different ways
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20110412 21:58:21< mordante> std::map already sorts by key
20110412 21:58:46< mordante> and if you want to use a std::vector you can use the std::sort algortihm
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20110412 22:01:44< Sytyi> mordante: thanks ))
20110412 22:02:04< mordante> you're welcome
20110412 22:02:21< mordante> also feel free to ask if you have questions, we're here to help you
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20110412 22:04:39< Sytyi> mordante: I suggest int will be enough to save max occurs  number ;)
20110412 22:05:17< mordante> yes 
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20110412 22:07:37< mordante> zaroth, around
20110412 22:07:46< zaroth> mordante: pong
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20110412 22:08:23< mordante> zaroth, read your discussion with YogiHH, and I also think changing the difficulty mid-game opens a can of worms
20110412 22:08:36< mordante> for example:
20110412 22:08:52< zaroth> mordante: you mean mid-campaign?
20110412 22:08:57< mordante> yes
20110412 22:09:23< mordante> scenario 1 on hard requires helper_unit_x to survive in easy the unit may die
20110412 22:09:42< zaroth> mordante: well, as Crab_ said, we can provide an option for the WML author to disable this if he thinks it isn't sane for his usage of WML
20110412 22:10:01< mordante> ok so you see the problem
20110412 22:10:11-!- gabba1 [~gabba@96.43.238.179] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110412 22:10:29< mordante> still I think it make bugs too easy
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20110412 22:10:56< mordante> if the author makes a mistake it can easily lead to a bug
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20110412 22:11:30< zaroth> I thought difficulties were mostly used for changing amount of gold and adding enemies...
20110412 22:11:39< mordante> and that bug may be hard to reproduce since the poster won't mention s/he switched difficulty (not out of malice but gets forgotten)
20110412 22:11:45< shadowmaster> zaroth: "mostly"
20110412 22:11:46< zaroth> at least that's what I saw when looking at WML of some campaigns I played
20110412 22:11:51< shadowmaster> it is possible to do anything with difficulties
20110412 22:12:06< mordante> what shadowmaster said
20110412 22:12:31< zaroth> well, then, maybe it should be disabled by default
20110412 22:12:54< zaroth> I still like the idea of at least mainline campaigns allowing this...
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20110412 22:13:02< mordante> personally I see it as a can of worms and has little added value
20110412 22:13:11< zaroth> (it may not be worth the effort, though)
20110412 22:14:34< mordante> btw didn't we warn you this weekend, there would be scary dark places in the SP/MP unification ;-)
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20110412 22:15:28< zaroth> mordante: yes, I was just told of add-on dependencies problems, colliding domains and many other...
20110412 22:15:35-!- p1mps [~p1mps@151.65.21.102] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110412 22:15:39 * zaroth is currently analysing how wesnoth cache works
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20110412 22:16:56< shadowmaster> It's too dangerous to go alone! Take this!
20110412 22:17:41-!- eoc [~eoc@pD9560DF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110412 22:17:45-!- eoc` is now known as eoc
20110412 22:17:49< zaroth> btw, anyone knows if anonymissimus uses IRC and what nick does he use?
20110412 22:20:10< mordante> wesbot, seen anonymissimus
20110412 22:20:11< wesbot> mordante: The person with the nick anonymissimus last spoke 6d 20h ago.  6d 20h ago they left with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]
20110412 22:20:18< Sytyi> zaroth: AFAIR, I've seen somebody with lnick like taht
20110412 22:20:27< Sytyi> * like that
20110412 22:21:04< zaroth> thanks!
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20110412 22:22:52< mordante> zaroth, didn't you say you updated your timeline?
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20110412 22:25:10< zaroth> mordante: no, I just created the "taskline" for the MP/SP unification and changed some priorities
20110412 22:25:31< zaroth> it can be seen as a timeline without dates
20110412 22:25:54< zaroth> mordante: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements#Implementation
20110412 22:27:20< zaroth> Once I do the same for my second main task (surrender option), I'll take milestones from both and put them into my timeline to give me some incentive in case I'm falling behind
20110412 22:27:27< zaroth> is it enough for your timeline tastes?
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20110412 22:31:56< mordante> zaroth, well I like more details in the current timeline itself
20110412 22:32:19< mordante> the entire proposal looks nice and detailed
20110412 22:32:47< mordante> only the timeline looks very sparse
20110412 22:32:49< zaroth> so putting the milestones in there isn't enough for you, with link to the implementation (tasks prior to Milestone 1. ) will be done during this period?
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20110412 22:35:54< mordante> at the moment the timeline has large blocks of time with no details which parts you hope to do in that time
20110412 22:36:25< mordante> so it would be nice if the coding periods is split in smaller chunks and what you hope to reach in those chunks
20110412 22:36:44< mordante> and that can simply be a milestone X
20110412 22:37:21< mordante> but during the project we want to get a feeling how you are doing according to the initial planning
20110412 22:39:11< zaroth> mordante: then I'll simply do #include<http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements#Implementation> ;-)
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20110412 22:39:42< zaroth> g++ timeline.cpp
20110412 22:39:54< mordante> zaroth, well for example http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab#Goals
20110412 22:40:03< mordante> (and yes that proposal again)
20110412 22:40:33< mordante> (personally I think it could use some more milestones)
20110412 22:41:25< zaroth> I guess I'll have 3 or 4...
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20110412 22:43:47< mordante> that would be great
20110412 22:44:18< mordante> it would already help if the two milestone you have now show up more and add an anchor to them
20110412 22:44:29< mordante> then you can link a date in your timeline to them
20110412 22:47:24< vjoe> hey fendrin, are you around?
20110412 22:47:40< Nephro> mordante, is it necessary for all of the mentors to read all of the proposal pages?
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20110412 22:48:43< fendrin> hi vjoe
20110412 22:49:03< Xenmen> good afternoon all
20110412 22:49:42< mordante> Nephro, what means necessary ;-) I think it's nice to read them all, you students work hard on them
20110412 22:49:43< vjoe> fendrin: stil about the label bug, I don't understand how setting needs_labels_reset to true in the initializing functions does not fix the issue
20110412 22:49:55< mordante> Nephro, so I think they deserve some attention
20110412 22:50:07< vjoe> the way I fixed it was pretty much calling the set function after the object is created
20110412 22:50:28< vjoe> how come creating the object with the right value does not fix it?
20110412 22:50:28< vjoe> hm...
20110412 22:50:55< Nephro> mordante, well, I've been given a hint today that I don't communicate with the community a lot, so I've decided to spam my proposal a bit, maybe someone finds it interesting to discuss
20110412 22:52:43< Nephro> And I also would be thankful for some additional feedback :)
20110412 22:53:47< vjoe> fendrin: by the way, I am referring to map_context.cpp
20110412 22:54:56< Xenmen> Is anyone familiar with the hotkeys code?
20110412 22:55:29< Xenmen> there's an attribute here... a bool called 'hidden'
20110412 22:55:41< zaroth> mordante: do you like it better now? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Zaroth_Multiplayer_Improvements#Timeline
20110412 22:55:44< mordante> Xenmen, what about it?
20110412 22:56:03< Xenmen> Well, I think it may be related to why hotkeys don't work while the right-click menu is up
20110412 22:56:21< mordante> hidden should hide it in the preferences dialog
20110412 22:56:28< Xenmen> ah...
20110412 22:56:54< mordante> there is however IIRC something called domain, eg GENERAL, EDITOR
20110412 22:57:17< mordante> but I don't expect that to be the cause
20110412 22:57:58< fendrin> vjoe: I once set a break point in that part of code and I found out that the labels are drawn several times before even the map is shown.
20110412 22:58:13< mordante> if I have to guess I expect the dialog to 'capture' all keyboard events and not to let them go the the hotkey handler
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20110412 22:58:25< Xenmen> I was thinking that too
20110412 22:58:31< mordante> Xenmen, btw do hotkeys work if you have another menu open?
20110412 22:58:32< Xenmen> I'm just not sure where that capture is
20110412 22:58:34< fendrin> I guess that it is much too early for the labels to get drawn properly.
20110412 22:59:22< vjoe> fendrin: ok
20110412 22:59:30< Xenmen> no
20110412 22:59:33< vjoe> so do you think the way I did yesterday is ok?
20110412 23:00:21< Xenmen> all the other menus; same deal
20110412 23:00:48< mordante> Nephro, we like students to discuss their ideas on IRC (not entirely sure how much you talk with Crab)
20110412 23:00:54< fendrin> vjoe: I think your attempt in fixing that bug is a nice training. But on a side note, I am currently working on the editor in a branch. I think that I will end up in displaying the starting positions with icons so it is wasted work.
20110412 23:01:03< fendrin> vjoe: Sorry, I should have told you earlier.
20110412 23:01:04< mordante> Xenmen, so it never works when a menu is open
20110412 23:01:10< Xenmen> nope
20110412 23:01:31< Xenmen> it's a generic menu thing
20110412 23:01:34< mordante> ok so it's consistent
20110412 23:01:37< Xenmen> yup
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20110412 23:01:47< mordante> I'm not entirely whether I consider it a bug
20110412 23:01:54< Xenmen> (trying to find where in the code this takes place)
20110412 23:02:00< vjoe> np, it was a good way to learn about the code
20110412 23:02:00< Xenmen> well, it's not a *bug*, per se
20110412 23:02:09< Sytyi> mordante, sorry for offtopic. According to Coding Standarts, schould I name private field vector  with underscore or no. Example vector<Tag> tags; or vector<Tag> tags_;
20110412 23:02:09< vjoe> I shall leave it as it is then
20110412 23:02:11< Xenmen> just a gameplay hindrance
20110412 23:02:30< Xenmen> it was filed as a bug on gna! years ago though
20110412 23:02:33< Xenmen> instead of a feature request
20110412 23:02:37< fendrin> vjoe: Yes, take what you have learned and find another task to do.
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20110412 23:03:08< Nephro> mordante, well, I've been pointed out in the first feedback that my idea lacks description... I refactored the wiki page, now it seems to have enough info, for other people to understand what I want to do :) It would be very hard for me to start discussing that with people who haven't read the Project section of the page, but I certainly *want* to discuss it, since I am not perfectly sure about it
20110412 23:03:11< zaroth> Sytyi: I noticed all throughout code that private fields have names like that_, so tags_
20110412 23:03:12< mordante> Sytyi, yes in Wesnoth all private fields are appended an underscore, als we don't use uppercase 
20110412 23:03:36< Xenmen> On the side, does anyone use eclipse to work on wesnoth?
20110412 23:03:51< vjoe> fendrin: I don't think there is anything else interesting in the bug tracker, i would rather starting planing my workflow
20110412 23:03:56< Xenmen> I really miss the scrollbar highlighting...
20110412 23:04:02< mordante> Xenmen, I'm not sure whether I agree on that, also that it's filed a bug doesn't mean it's a bug
20110412 23:04:05< vjoe> and getting properly familiarized with the rest of the code
20110412 23:04:13< Sytyi> mordante: and in methods name do you use underscore or CamelStyle?   example: getName()  or get_name()
20110412 23:04:16< Nephro> And we haven't discussed my idea with Crab at all, since we mostly interact in a Q&A way about the AI codebase :) Probably because the extensive description of the idea was posted today
20110412 23:05:05< mordante> Xenmen, for example in firefox when I use ctrl+d when a menu is open it doesn't act as the ctrl+d hotkey
20110412 23:05:15< mordante> Sytyi, also underscores
20110412 23:05:20< Sytyi> zaroth: I just want to know if any dimension between simple data fields and containers data fields exists. 
20110412 23:05:24< Sytyi> mordante: Thanks a lot
20110412 23:05:29< mordante> you're welcome
20110412 23:05:52< Sytyi> *refactoring
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20110412 23:06:37< mordante> Nephro, then best try to get a hold of Crab or another mentor and ask about the parts you're unsure about
20110412 23:06:52< mordante> (don't ask me I'm about to leave ;-) )
20110412 23:07:02< Nephro> argh, ok, thanks, good luck
20110412 23:07:13 * Nephro looks at fendrin 
20110412 23:07:45< mordante> Crab is the best to ask for the AI, you can also leave messages in the log and he can answer them
20110412 23:07:55< mordante> so make sure you look for your name in the log
20110412 23:08:16< Nephro> mordante, yeah, I know, thanks :)
20110412 23:08:25< mordante> you're welcome
20110412 23:08:30< fendrin> hi Nephro
20110412 23:08:56< mordante> Nephro, we have a lot of proposals to read so we leave questions in the application but don't always have time to hunt after students
20110412 23:09:28< Nephro> hi fendrin :) Would you mind taking a look on my proposal? It's about AI, but I promise you'll love it
20110412 23:09:33< mordante> Nephro, so take the initiative yourself
20110412 23:10:02< Nephro> mordante, I am trying :) While writing this I code with my other hand
20110412 23:10:20< fendrin> Nephro: The proposal with the threaded brain?
20110412 23:10:23< Sytyi> mordante: and what about naming classes ? SourceParser or source_parser ? 
20110412 23:10:44< Nephro> fendrin, exactly, the new version, with lovely pictures
20110412 23:11:07< fendrin> Nephro: I have read it yesterday. I like it. But AI is something I know nothing about.
20110412 23:11:42< fendrin> Nephro: As mordante already said, you have to impress Crab_.
20110412 23:12:19< Nephro> fendrin, how do you mean yesterday? I've finished it only 6 hours ago... Hmm, 6 hours ago might've been yesterday already
20110412 23:12:42< fendrin> Nephro: Well, then I have read a preliminary version.
20110412 23:12:56< Nephro> fendrin, where there images there?
20110412 23:13:02< fendrin> No.
20110412 23:13:14< fendrin> nagbot?
20110412 23:13:20< fendrin> wesbot: seen nagbot?
20110412 23:13:20< wesbot> fendrin: Person, who 8d 21h ago used nick nagbot, last spoke 4d 2h ago.  4d ago as nagbot2 they were kicked by Ivanovic: killall users!
20110412 23:13:31< fendrin> hmmmm
20110412 23:13:44< Disruption> lol
20110412 23:13:49< Disruption> Ivanovic killed nagbot! >_<
20110412 23:14:50< Nephro> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_LuaAI_Improvement_Nephro#The_Project this part should be interesting to everybody(me is a such a lousy spammer) disregarding AI experience. At least, I told my idea to a person, who has no idea about programming(and even wesnoth), and he was impressed
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20110412 23:16:51< Nephro> </spam> I think I could use some sleep
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20110412 23:18:17 * Xenmen is back...
20110412 23:18:25< Xenmen> and true, it shouldn't have been filed as a bug
20110412 23:18:48< Xenmen> open menus DO catch certain keypresses
20110412 23:18:52< Xenmen> like the arrow keys and enter
20110412 23:18:56< CIA-82> mordante * r49184 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/images/terrain/: Remove an empty directory, spotted by Rhonda.
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20110412 23:19:33< mordante> Nephro, good I try to do four things at the moment ;-)
20110412 23:19:53< Xenmen> I *THINK* there's a case statement somewhere that checks for those, and then doesn't have a condition for passing other keypresses to the global catcher
20110412 23:20:04< mordante> Sytyi, personally I like tclass_name, but most devs do class_name
20110412 23:20:17< mordante> Sytyi, some pascal heritage shows there ;-)
20110412 23:20:33< Sytyi> mordante: Thanks. 
20110412 23:20:53< mordante> you're welcome
20110412 23:21:16< Sytyi> mordante: Why I didnt ask that earlier :?
20110412 23:21:31< zaroth> what's the reasoning for the tsomething? t as in type?
20110412 23:22:06< zaroth> Sytyi: maybe update http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards basing on your new knowledge so others doesn't share your woe?
20110412 23:22:50< zaroth> I took my names knowledge directly from reading code and trying to mimic it, but now that I looked on this page, it seriously lacks in this info, as you noted
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20110412 23:23:01< Sytyi> zaroth: Yes. I thought about it. maybe after 15th. :) 
20110412 23:23:26< Sytyi> zaroth: and tomorrow on boring lecture :)
20110412 23:25:02< mordante> Sytyi, ?
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20110412 23:25:25< mordante> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards#End_Non-Public_Members_of_Classes_with_an_Underscore
20110412 23:25:26< Sytyi> mordante: maybe tomorrow I'll update  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards
20110412 23:25:59< Xenmen> mordante: don't they usually begin with an underscore as well?
20110412 23:26:01< mordante> normally it's a good idea to mimic the style of an existing codebase
20110412 23:26:07< zaroth> mordante: nothing about CamelCases etc. there
20110412 23:26:37< Sytyi> mordante: I read that, and then begin to ask questions about naming classes, methods, UpperCase in methods
20110412 23:26:37< mordante> Xenmen, some pick that, but we picked at the end
20110412 23:26:59< Xenmen> Fair enough; it's easy to adapt to
20110412 23:27:04< mordante> zaroth, Sytyi like I said mimic the style in the current code base
20110412 23:27:18 * Xenmen afk for some time, out-of-house...
20110412 23:27:24< mordante> zaroth, Sytyi also I like the coding style short and not a x pages bookwork
20110412 23:27:56< Sytyi> mordante: ok. 
20110412 23:27:57< mordante> also we have code that starts with an uppercase C for class names eg Ckey and Cvideo
20110412 23:28:13< mordante> (typing is an art...)
20110412 23:30:41< mordante> zaroth, there seems to be a duplicate in your timeline, the surrender idea
20110412 23:31:20< mordante> but other then that I like it, just gives us more insight
20110412 23:31:40< zaroth> mordante: it's on purpose, notice different milestones
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20110412 23:32:15< zaroth> I'll add more detail once I dissect surrender implementation like I did with SP/MP unification
20110412 23:32:16< mordante> zaroth, the t is from type pascal uses Tfoo for types and Pfoo for pointers
20110412 23:33:03< mordante> zaroth, spot the difference "	 Coding surrendering idea. More details may be added later. " vs "	 Coding surrendering idea. More details may be added later. " :-P
20110412 23:33:20< mordante> yes the milestones after it looks different
20110412 23:33:43< Disruption> the difference is so subtle it's difficult to see :P
20110412 23:34:05< mordante> :-)
20110412 23:34:52< mordante> Xenmen, so what do you want to do with your patch? still finish it? or work on something different?
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20110412 23:38:06 * zaroth just discovered boost::variant in config.cpp
20110412 23:39:43< zaroth> so *that*'s how we can store so many things in the attributes!
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20110412 23:44:22< mordante> writing a variant class ain't too hard variant.hpp
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20110412 23:46:45< zaroth> ah, another thing that I didn't spot in codingstandards, braces. If it isn't stated there, does it mean we don't have a standard for this? ( I think I have seen both styles, but mostly K&R )
20110412 23:47:23< Nephro> zaroth, both styles seen by me too
20110412 23:48:54< mordante> zaroth, the coding standards in mainly about really important things
20110412 23:49:10< mordante> we had some MSVC 6 oddities in it as well
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20110412 23:50:01 * zaroth is happy that he isn't forced to use K&R style
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20110412 23:50:43< mordante> and if you look at the code you will notice violations of the coding standard as well ...
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20110412 23:54:24< Disruption> some code rapists out there? Ô_o
20110412 23:55:10< mordante> yeah those as well :-(
20110412 23:55:33< Disruption> scary :S
20110412 23:56:21< mordante> unfortunately yes
20110412 23:57:16< shadowmaster> uh huh
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 13 00:00:34 2011