--- Log opened Thu Apr 14 00:00:55 2011
20110414 00:02:12< sytyi> zaroth: g++   -lboost_regex runs correctly. QT knows headers and everytning like this. but when making it crashes with error. I need to attach somehow thar lib, and i can not find it to write full path. :(
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20110414 00:02:57< Disruption> nighthy night devs! :)
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20110414 00:08:26< sytyi> zaroth: cmake cache helped me )
20110414 00:09:41< zaroth> your system has to be pretty sophisticated if you need to look into cmake cache to figure out where the libraries are ;-)
20110414 00:10:08< zaroth> but I'm glad that you solved your problem, it's the effect that counts after all
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20110414 00:17:40< sytyi> zaroth: at last it was in usr/libs but very deep in subfolders
20110414 00:19:57< Qbunia_> mm 
20110414 00:20:08< Qbunia_> where i can submit a patch?
20110414 00:20:16< Qbunia_> or get new 1 to work on ?
20110414 00:22:29< Xenmen> maybe post it on the forum?
20110414 00:23:08< Xenmen> or
20110414 00:23:09< Xenmen> no, wait
20110414 00:23:10< Xenmen> gna
20110414 00:23:15< Xenmen> patches.wesnoth.org
20110414 00:23:16< Xenmen> that's right
20110414 00:23:35< Qbunia_> i see but 
20110414 00:23:41< Qbunia_> all of them are assigned to some1 who is doing it 
20110414 00:24:05< Xenmen> well, someone who's checking
20110414 00:24:11< Xenmen> you'll notice there's a "submitted by"
20110414 00:24:18< Xenmen> in addition to "assigned to"
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20110414 00:24:35< Xenmen> the assigned person is just double checking that the patch is worth incorporating
20110414 00:24:42< Xenmen> and that it's not subtly malicious
20110414 00:25:10< Qbunia_> i see
20110414 00:25:13< Qbunia_> so i will pick1 ;)
20110414 00:25:18< Qbunia_> thx
20110414 00:25:50< Qbunia_> i should pick only the ones that have status: none right?
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20110414 00:32:05< Qbunia_> Xenmen: ?
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20110414 00:39:12< Xenmen> sorry, was eating
20110414 00:39:17< Xenmen> Qbunia_: yes?
20110414 00:39:26< Xenmen> oh
20110414 00:39:33< Xenmen> uhhh
20110414 00:40:01< Xenmen> personally, I'd recommend assigning Crab
20110414 00:40:01< Xenmen> if you can
20110414 00:40:08< Xenmen> I think he'll check it faster than anyone else right now
20110414 00:42:14< Qbunia_> Xenmen: i dont get something. Iam gsoc student and wesnoth devs commented my proporsal like: submit some patches to show your coding skills 
20110414 00:42:31< Qbunia_> so how i can get a patch to work on ?:|
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20110414 00:44:01< zaroth> Qbunia_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/DeveloperResources#I_want_to_start_coding.2C_what_can_I_do.3F
20110414 00:44:05< Xenmen> well, you check the bug list
20110414 00:44:09< Xenmen> and try and fix something
20110414 00:44:14< Xenmen> or add some small new feature
20110414 00:44:42< Xenmen> I aim to get hotkeys working while menus are open
20110414 00:44:52< Xenmen> every day I get a bit closer
20110414 00:45:02< Xenmen> and then once you fix it
20110414 00:45:09< Xenmen> you use svn to generate a .dif file
20110414 00:45:15< Xenmen> and then you upload that
20110414 00:45:22< Xenmen> and that's about all of it that I understand   X]
20110414 00:45:35< Qbunia_> so i miss understood Crab 
20110414 00:45:53< Qbunia_> ok i get it 
20110414 00:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 198 bugs, 311 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110414 01:40:59< CIA-82> zaroth * r49192 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): fixed mistake in new command name in changelog
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20110414 02:51:12< CIA-82> espreon * r49193 /trunk/ (26 files in 25 dirs): Updated the Latin translation.
20110414 02:58:31< CIA-82> espreon * r49194 /trunk/po/ (21 files in 21 dirs): Ran po-update on the Latin po files.
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20110414 06:49:50< champ> wesbot: Crab_
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20110414 06:58:46< MGoods|RangerM> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110414 06:58:47< wesbot> MGoods|RangerM: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 9h 20m ago.  9h 10m ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20110414 06:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 198 bugs, 312 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110414 07:13:56< Xenmen> champ: if you're on the west coast, you might as well go to bed.   :P
20110414 07:14:01< Xenmen> like I'm doing now...
20110414 07:14:08 * Xenmen leaves for bed...
20110414 07:14:13< Xenmen> 'Night all
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20110414 07:15:20< champ> Xenmen: I'm using GMT +8 as local time, thanks for caring.
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20110414 09:13:18< Soliton> zaroth: you were asking about random advancement in single player, right? sounds good to me if we do implement a way to pre-select advancements. otherwise advancement trees like Kaleh's would not be much fun.
20110414 09:15:23 * Espreon giggles
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20110414 09:33:38< Upth> wow, so
20110414 09:33:47< Upth> earlier, when wesnoth.org went down
20110414 09:33:55< Upth> it was between me submitting wiki changes
20110414 09:33:59< Upth> and those changes being applied
20110414 09:34:26< Upth> which left my wiki proposal page in an inconsistent state, making further edits difficult
20110414 09:35:04< Upth> fortunately I bypassed the issue by opening the history and editting from the top revision listed there
20110414 09:36:20< Espreon> My my...
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20110414 10:05:21< champ> hi devs, where can i find a manual for command of wesbot in this channel, thanks.
20110414 10:06:09< Espreon> wesbot: help
20110414 10:06:09< wesbot> Espreon: I could tell you about bug(s), feature(s), task(s), patch(es), a log revision, update the topic, last seen of people... you name it.
20110414 10:06:17< Espreon> That's all there probably is.
20110414 10:06:23< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110414 10:06:24< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 12h 28m ago.  12h 17m ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20110414 10:06:31< shadowmaster> champ: I believe that's what you were originally looking for.
20110414 10:07:19< champ> Get it, thanks guys.
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20110414 10:10:35< Ivanovic> moin
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20110414 10:12:59< shadowmaster> zaroth: congrats on your forum promotion! ;)
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20110414 10:46:44< zaroth> shadowmaster: thanks! :-)
20110414 10:46:51< zaroth> now I'm part of it...
20110414 10:47:01 * zaroth remembers catchy steve ballmer's song from tgt thread
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20110414 11:33:09< MGoods|RangerM> Sorry fot he delay on this Crab, and can't stay to chat, but could you point me at the stuff (I know, technical word) that you wanted to me expose to the lua engine, and the example that you mentioned ( I think I remember you mentioning one)
20110414 11:34:03< MGoods|RangerM> Ah, forgot, Crab_, not Crab
20110414 11:34:10< MGoods|RangerM> to get your attention
20110414 11:34:31< Crab_> MGoods|RangerM: well, any of ai aspects
20110414 11:34:58< Crab_> Max20010: from http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AIWML
20110414 11:35:07< Crab_> oops, MGoods|RangerM ^
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20110414 11:35:36< MGoods|RangerM> ok, and the example? Or was I imagining that?
20110414 11:35:48< Crab_> MGoods|RangerM: take any aspect apart from caution and aggression, which is simple enough (i.e. int/boolean/double/ string), and expose it to lua. aggression is already exposed
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20110414 11:36:11< MGoods|RangerM> ok, thanks, will get on it soon, gotta go now
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20110414 12:21:14< champ> Crab_: hi
20110414 12:34:46< Crab_> hi, champ
20110414 12:41:24< Nephro> Crab_, hi! About that way you described to me(template lua_object : lua_base_object ...)... After I pass the smart pointer to the base class, I have to cast it somehow to reach the methods of the child class right?
20110414 12:41:49< Nephro> 2>.\ai\lua\core.cpp(348) : error C2039: 'store_value' : is not a member of 'ai::lua_object_base'
20110414 12:41:50< Nephro>  -- because, this is what I get atm
20110414 12:41:54< champ> Crab_: For the task, I need to add a luaapi function and attach to callbacks table in ai::lua_ai_context::create , right?
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20110414 12:42:20< Crab_> champ: yes
20110414 12:42:27< automagic> are the /*...*/-style comments prefered over the //... ones?
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20110414 12:42:41< Crab_> Nephro: can't you create a method in a superclass ?
20110414 12:43:06< Crab_> Nephro: after all, you don't need to get the value inside that function, you only need it in aspect where you know the exact type.
20110414 12:43:17< Crab_> Nephro: or where you can do dynamic_pointer_cast
20110414 12:43:21< Crab_> champ: yes
20110414 12:46:12< champ> Crab_: the luaapi funcion is defined in the form which has only one parameter(lua_State), so how the ai parameter is send to the callback functions.
20110414 12:46:38< Crab_> its a closure
20110414 12:47:00< Nephro> Crab_, well, I have to call l_obj->store  from the handler_->handle(hehe, handler->handle)... I didn't add a method to the superclass, because I though that it will be the one called when we try that(maybe for some reason function templates don't participate in polymorphism)
20110414 12:47:28< champ> Crab_: You mean the lua_State is a closure?
20110414 12:48:15< Crab_> callback is.
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20110414 12:50:33< champ> ok, let me see.
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20110414 12:54:31 * Nephro has almost compiled his code
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20110414 13:04:52< Crab_> Nephro: good
20110414 13:06:07< Nephro> Crab_, well, everything seemed to compile, but I always have this fear that it will not work :)
20110414 13:06:19< Crab_> Nephro: about templates and polymorphism - virtual void recalculate() const = 0; is a good example that it works :)
20110414 13:06:55< Nephro> Indeed, I should have thought about that. I added a pure virtual method to the base and it worked
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20110414 13:42:22< Crab_> automagic: both kinds of comments are used. /** */ is used for doxygen docs
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20110414 13:48:14< automagic> Crab_: Are /// also ok for doxygen?
20110414 13:48:59< Crab_> yes, see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Doxygen
20110414 13:49:06< automagic> I've seen it.
20110414 13:49:14< Crab_> :)
20110414 13:49:18< automagic> :)
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20110414 14:10:08 * Nephro plans to launch wesnoth
20110414 14:20:14< champ> Crab_: The closure communicate with the caller via 'the stack' in lua_State, right?
20110414 14:20:52< Crab_> champ: there's a lua api function to get an upvalue
20110414 14:21:17< Crab_> champ: closures have access to some upvalues
20110414 14:21:34< Crab_> champ: and, yes, all callbacks, closures or not, have access to lua state and to lua stack
20110414 14:21:41< champ> Crab_: I mean its actually stored in the 'stacks'
20110414 14:21:43< Crab_> champ: the return values are passed via stack.
20110414 14:21:46< Crab_> champ: yes
20110414 14:23:04< champ> Crab_: So the task is to get a upvalue and return via stack, am i right?
20110414 14:23:35< Crab_> the task is to return via stack. to get the value you need to return, you need to get a userdata pointer from an upvalue.
20110414 14:25:35< champ> Crab_: And it is in the readonly_context?
20110414 14:25:45< Crab_> yes
20110414 14:25:51< Crab_> for aspects, readonly context is enough
20110414 14:26:12< Crab_> movements/attacks require more, readwrite_context (which extends readonly_context)
20110414 14:26:24< Crab_> some things require even more (still extending from readonly_context) :)
20110414 14:26:44< champ> Crab_: like state
20110414 14:30:59< champ> Crab_: I think I've got what to do now, thanks. ;-) 
20110414 14:31:48< Crab_> champ: glad to help
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20110414 14:36:27< champ> Crab_: It seems I can most probably meet you around 12:00 UTC, right?
20110414 14:36:52< Crab_> 9:00 UTC to 15:00 UTC
20110414 14:37:03< Crab_> then yes, 12:00 UTC is the 'most probably' time :)
20110414 14:37:25< champ> Wow, I hit the mid!:-) 
20110414 14:37:31< Crab_> champ: but I can be around earlier, like on wednesday, if explicitly asked for.
20110414 14:39:56< champ> Crab_: 9:00 to 15:00 UTC is just fit for me. This is my after supper time.
20110414 14:40:09< Crab_> ok, great.
20110414 14:41:04< Nephro> Crab_, the game seems to crash when I do "return l_obj->get_value();" where l_object is a shared_ptr to a lua_object... The exception states something about heap corruption and the last call in the call stack is the release() function
20110414 14:41:17< Nephro> Maybe you know why this could happen?
20110414 14:42:18< Crab_> Nephro: maybe you've mishandled some lua stuff ?
20110414 14:42:23< Crab_> Nephro: or you can show the stack somewhere
20110414 14:43:02< Nephro> Crab_, all the lua madness is handled by your written code, I've only written the proxy class... The problem has something to do with boost and the release of memory
20110414 14:43:38< Crab_> I'm about the get_value() - it takes value from the lua stack, right ?
20110414 14:43:55< Nephro> no, it takes a value from a variable in the lua_object
20110414 14:44:00< Crab_> but let's take a look at the stack trace, then
20110414 14:44:02< Nephro> the conversion was done before
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20110414 14:48:15< Nephro> Crab_, http://imagebin.org/148171 - here will be the trace
20110414 14:48:43< Nephro> the guys at #boost are idle
20110414 14:49:30< Crab_> what's happening in the destructor of your lua_object class ?
20110414 14:49:40< Crab_> and, does base class have a virtual destructor ?
20110414 14:49:43< Nephro> Nothing, I believe
20110414 14:49:45< Crab_> ok
20110414 14:50:33< Nephro> This might be a misunderstanding I have. atm I consider, that if I do not allocate any memory in the object, then I don't have to free anything.
20110414 14:51:32< Crab_> you don't have to call delete, of course...
20110414 14:51:40< Crab_> and how do you initialize your smart pointer ?
20110414 14:51:49< Crab_> do you use new lua_object ? (you should)
20110414 14:52:19< Crab_> i.e. if you initialize your smart pointer with a reference to temporary, it won't work.
20110414 14:52:26< Nephro> I think the error might lie in the way I do, yes
20110414 14:52:27< Nephro> boost::shared_ptr<lua_object<int>> l_obj = boost::shared_ptr<lua_object<int>>(new lua_object<int>());
20110414 14:53:04< Crab_> looks sane enough
20110414 14:54:30< Crab_> you can try adding debug output in ctor and dtor of lua object
20110414 14:54:39< Crab_> log the address of lua object being deleted and created
20110414 15:05:44< Nephro> Crab_, if the base class has a virtual destructor, how do I implement it?
20110414 15:06:27< Nephro> I mean, ~lua_object() isn't the same as ~lua_object_base
20110414 15:09:30< Nephro> Do I even need the virtual one?
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20110414 15:17:37< Crab_> Nephro: just in the base class
20110414 15:17:54< Crab_> Nephro: it can be trivial, just marked as virtual
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20110414 15:19:12< Crab_> Nephro: but it shouldn't matter much for the purposes of this crash anyway...
20110414 15:23:27< Nephro> Maybe the answer lies in the return ; stament...
20110414 15:23:38< Nephro> I mean, how exactly does it work
20110414 15:25:27< Crab_> well, I'd just check that the object at px_ was not accidentially deleted in some other place
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20110414 15:30:19< Nephro> Crab_, maybe, when I pass the shared_ptr to a function by value, it doesn't handle that well and destructs it on return, so the caller function is left with no object
20110414 15:30:49 * Nephro confused himself again
20110414 15:30:59< Crab_> Nephro: just add logging in your lua object dtor
20110414 15:31:23< Crab_> log 'this' as an integer.
20110414 15:31:36< Crab_> it will uniquely identify your object
20110414 15:32:24< Nephro> I wanted to just break in that spot, but the MSVC9 debugger is playing games with me again, so logging it is
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20110414 15:41:12< Nephro> Crab_, btw, the other mentors weren't too excited about reading my proposal page :) They said I have to impress you... 
20110414 15:43:25< Crab_> get the patch done, then )
20110414 15:44:37< Nephro> argh, it's done :D (despite the fact it crashe the game)
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20110414 15:57:01< champ> Crab_: btw, how to test an added callback function? write a WML contain certain ai_function? Or I can call it from the in-game console some how?
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20110414 15:58:13< Nephro> champ, I use wesnoth.exe -t lua_ai -d for that purpose
20110414 15:58:37< Nephro> It is a small scenario full of lua function tests
20110414 16:01:48< champ> Nephro: Could you show some detail on how to use it in `wesnoth.exe -t lua_ai -d` mode. It just said "Test Scenario for Lua AI\n No object available"
20110414 16:02:27< champ> Nephro: when I just type `wesnoth.exe -t lua_ai -d`
20110414 16:03:22< champ> Nephro: Or any manual I can read about the mode? Thanks.
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20110414 16:13:06< Crab_> champ: lua ai scenario is the way to go... try the 'usual' test scenario, btw, to see if it works for you or not. (wesnoth -t -d)
20110414 16:14:56< timotei> wow, I was scared the plugin won't compile anymore. It seems my eclipse has grown too much in plugins XD
20110414 16:16:00< champ> ok, I'll try them and check if it meet my needs.
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20110414 17:28:14< Disruption> Hi devs! =)
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20110414 17:53:15< timotei21> hi Disruption 
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20110414 17:54:21< Disruption> hi there timotei :)
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20110414 18:07:48< Disruption> hi Crab_
20110414 18:08:11< Crab_> hi, Disruption
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20110414 18:08:38< Disruption> you can call me Dis, it's shorter :)
20110414 18:09:11< Crab_> Disruption: it's Di<tab> with autocomplete :)
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20110414 18:09:34< Disruption> hahaha, well, then it's the same number of keystrokes :D
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20110414 18:29:43< Nephro> 2>d:\wesnoth\src\ai\lua\lua_object.hpp(32) : error C2653: 'lg' : is not a class or namespace name -- do I have to include something to use the log system?
20110414 18:29:54< Crab_> src/log.hpp
20110414 18:30:23< Nephro> found it, thanks :)
20110414 18:31:34< Nephro> And where will the logs be output to?
20110414 18:31:46< Crab_> Nephro: on windows: stderr.txt file
20110414 18:32:09< Crab_> zaroth: about the [role] tag... it doesn't use the 'get side from side= attribute' thing
20110414 18:32:29< Crab_> zaroth: it actually has an inlined StandardUnitFilter in it
20110414 18:32:55< Crab_> zaroth: so, it shouldn't use the same handling of side= wrt default value
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20110414 18:42:47< Nephro> Crab_, I've found out that the object still exists when we try to destruct it, but it crashes somewhere in or after the destructor :( I have to run away now, so that will probably have to be sorted out tomorrow
20110414 18:43:01< Crab_> Nephro: can you post the patch as-is ?
20110414 18:43:13< Crab_> Nephro: I will be able to take a look at it
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20110414 18:58:11< Nephro> Crab_, ok, but there are some minor cosmetic problems with it
20110414 18:58:17< Crab_> it's ok
20110414 18:58:28< Nephro> things like
20110414 18:58:29< Nephro> int val = l_obj->get_value();
20110414 18:58:30< Nephro> 		delete &(*l_obj);
20110414 18:58:30< Nephro> 		this;
20110414 18:58:53< Nephro> in random spots, I sometimes do that for debugging :(
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20110414 19:00:33< Nephro> I'd clean it up but I am in a big hurry atm
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20110414 19:03:34< Aethaeryn> Crab_: I have it working, just not the way it's supposed to be in that every tag is currently mandatory (i.e. if not entered, the function will error)
20110414 19:03:44< Aethaeryn> I will be going to #lua since it's a problem with my understanding of the Lua C API
20110414 19:03:57-!- Tigge [~tigge@c-eda172d5.015-28-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110414 19:03:58< Crab_> Aethaeryn: good to know that it's working
20110414 19:04:05< Aethaeryn> I had a test this morning so I couldn't debug it earlier.
20110414 19:04:07< Crab_> Aethaeryn: submit the patch when you're ready.
20110414 19:04:27< Aethaeryn> essentially my timeline was: Monday/Wednesday = crap days, Tuesday = mostly working, Thursday morning = exam :-(
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20110414 19:05:00< Crab_> nice schedule )
20110414 19:05:22< automagi1> Does any one else have an "Trying to open file with empty name" error after running "make test && ./test"? Isn't that the correct way to run tests?
20110414 19:05:37< Nephro> Crab_, will a pastebin do?
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20110414 19:05:56< Crab_> Nephro: yes
20110414 19:05:59< Nephro> http://pastebin.com/mLGBXAbS
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20110414 19:06:58< Nephro> It crashes in engine_lua.cpp func evaluate()
20110414 19:07:44< Crab_> Nephro: good to know :) how to make it crash ? lua ai test scenario ?
20110414 19:08:30< Nephro> yes, just end your turn and it goes nuts
20110414 19:08:36< automagic> The gdb backtrace points to gui2::load_settings as the source.
20110414 19:10:00 * Nephro runs off
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20110414 19:10:31< Crab_> automagic: empty name means 'non-existing file', usually
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20110414 19:16:56< automagic> Crab_: Ok, but I get this error with the up to date code, so something is wrong.
20110414 19:18:00< automagic> Either I do something wrong or the code in the current revision breaks on ./test
20110414 19:18:17< zaroth> automagic: do you use cmake ?
20110414 19:18:32< zaroth> if so, you don't run test from your main directory
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20110414 19:18:40< zaroth> i meant, you run it from wesnoth/
20110414 19:18:44< zaroth> not from build/
20110414 19:18:57< zaroth> so try cd build ; make; cd .. ; build/test
20110414 19:19:01< automagic> ok
20110414 19:19:53< automagic> now it works. thanks
20110414 19:20:13< zaroth> Crab_: do you mean by that that I should remove any modifications from [role]?
20110414 19:20:34< zaroth> automagic: no problem, mordante taught me that, so I also should teach someone to pay back the community ;-)
20110414 19:21:37< zaroth> wesbot: seen anonymissimus
20110414 19:21:37< wesbot> zaroth: The person with the nick anonymissimus last spoke 8d 17h ago.  8d 17h ago they left with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]
20110414 19:23:02< Crab_> zaroth: no, don't do that, I am working on that already 
20110414 19:23:14< Crab_> zaroth: using the patch as a start point, but doing slightly different things
20110414 19:23:25< Crab_> zaroth: I just wanted to explain why it's different
20110414 19:23:50< Crab_> zaroth: it's because side= is an optional filter in standard unit filter., but side= is a 'for what side we should run a tag' in many tags.
20110414 19:24:44< zaroth> all right, I hope my other modifications were okay :-)
20110414 19:25:12< Crab_> zaroth: yes, I'll be using the code.
20110414 19:25:21< Crab_> zaroth: but with some modifications :)
20110414 19:26:42 * zaroth doesn't want to touch game_events.cpp anytime soon anyway (unless he has to ;-) )
20110414 19:26:47< Crab_> :)
20110414 19:26:57< Crab_> most of the code will move away to side_filter.?pp
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20110414 19:31:49< Crab_> zaroth: for example, here's what's left in game_events.cpp atm :  http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1204157
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20110414 19:35:20< Aethaeryn> Crab_: Is there a different, more efficient, way to test Lua functions output other than ":debug" ":lua wesnoth.command()" in an actual game?
20110414 19:35:27< Aethaeryn> Or perhaps an automated way to get to that part
20110414 19:36:13< Crab_> Aethaeryn: you can load a test scenario from console
20110414 19:36:26< Crab_> Aethaeryn: and,include an event in the test scenario to do your magic code
20110414 19:37:02< Crab_> Aethaeryn: alternatively, if you're working in pure lua, open notepad and input a string there to load stuff from file and run it
20110414 19:37:03< zaroth> Crab_: well, it's you who need the function, so you probably know what you're doing :-) (is the side=all now parsed in SSF?)
20110414 19:37:20< Crab_> zaroth: yes, it will be moved to standard side filter.
20110414 19:37:36< Aethaeryn> Crab_: Unfortunately, I'm working with wesnoth.stuff so I can't use the interpreter.
20110414 19:37:38< Crab_> Aethaeryn: you can invoke wesnoth.dofile from :lua, and you can copypaste stuff, so...
20110414 19:37:52< Crab_> Aethaeryn: why you can't ?
20110414 19:38:15< Aethaeryn> Crab_: Well, even if I found a way I wouldn't be able to test what it does to Wesnoth, right?
20110414 19:38:29< Aethaeryn> Since wesnoth.gui_message{} won't be able to launch a message box in the Lua interpreter's terminal
20110414 19:38:44< Crab_> Aethaeryn: I wasn't talking about the interpreter
20110414 19:38:45< Aethaeryn> I just want a way to automate this part so I can save about 5 minutes every time I test.
20110414 19:39:12< Crab_> Aethaeryn: I was talking about 'launch wesnoth, and invoke stuff either from test scenario startup event or from :lua console'
20110414 19:39:35< Aethaeryn> Crab_: Can I make a testfile that launches straight into the scenario via Terminal without having to go through the menus, debug mode, etc.?
20110414 19:39:44< Aethaeryn> It'd cut about 3 steps out of testing.
20110414 19:39:45< Crab_> Aethaeryn: yes, a test scenario
20110414 19:39:53< Aethaeryn> ok
20110414 19:40:07< Crab_> Aethaeryn: launch ./wesnoth -t -d
20110414 19:40:08< Aethaeryn> Is there documentation about this feature on the wiki?
20110414 19:40:12< Aethaeryn> ah
20110414 19:40:45< Crab_> and note that it has 'lua says something about recall list' feature already
20110414 19:41:11< Crab_> also, if you are only modifying lua files, you can use :debug once, and then use :lua to reload new version of your stuff and run it
20110414 19:41:47< Crab_> documentation is in the command-line opts documentation and in the man page
20110414 19:42:05< Crab_> it's also on http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ScenarioWML
20110414 19:42:38< Crab_> note: you can do wesnoth.dofile  from lua
20110414 19:43:00< Crab_> i.e. :lua wesnoth.dofile('partial/path/to/file') will run the file each time
20110414 19:43:21< Crab_> if you only change lua code, you will be able to keep wesnoth open at the same time as the editor
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20110414 19:52:35< Espreon> Why do people have to get all defensive and fork-happy, like that guy in #wesnoth just did?
20110414 19:55:16< noy> don't worry Espreon 
20110414 19:55:49< Espreon> 'K.
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20110414 20:00:58< Aethaeryn> noy, Crab_, etc.: I'm going to be heading back to my "Command Center" where I can code with greater efficiency. (In other words, I'm heading home from my university.) I'll be back asap.
20110414 20:01:06< noy> that's fine
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20110414 20:03:41< mordante> servus
20110414 20:04:40< Disruption> mordante: Hi there :)
20110414 20:04:54< mordante> di Disruption 
20110414 20:05:05< zaroth> mo mordante ;-)
20110414 20:05:22< mordante> hi zaroth 
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20110414 20:14:28< mordante> zaroth, congrats with your svn access
20110414 20:15:08-!- Shakey [~Shakey@12.190.80.225] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110414 20:15:30< mordante> and Ivanovic thanks for remembering it 
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20110414 20:21:24< vjoe> hey
20110414 20:21:29< Crab_> hi, vjoe
20110414 20:21:33< mordante> hi vjoe 
20110414 20:24:14< mordante> timotei21, have you also worked with verilog?
20110414 20:25:44< timotei21> mordante: hi. nope. just VHDL
20110414 20:25:47< timotei21> why?
20110414 20:26:14< timotei21> the whole faculty uses VHDL not verilog... so that's mainly a language chosen by the teachers
20110414 20:26:28< timotei21> even though, iirc verilog is a bit more ... flexible
20110414 20:26:41< mordante> just curious, I haven't really worked with either, but my colleague has and he thinks verilog is nicer, but most teachers seem to pick VHDL
20110414 20:27:01< mordante> so curious whether you learned both or only VHDL
20110414 20:27:12< timotei21> nope. just VHDL 
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20110414 20:35:26< mordante> grigoryj, thanks for your honesty and if you want to join wesnoth as developer at a later time feel free to do so
20110414 20:39:51< CIA-82> mordante * r49195 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:39:51< CIA-82> Add better input validation to the wiki grabber.
20110414 20:39:51< CIA-82> Some errors were silently ignored and thus input was silently lost.
20110414 20:39:55< CIA-82> mordante * r49196 /trunk/src/gui/ (3 files in 3 dirs): 
20110414 20:39:55< CIA-82> Fix several wiki formatting errors.
20110414 20:39:55< CIA-82> The errors were found by the changes in the last commit.
20110414 20:39:56< CIA-82> mordante * r49197 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/settings.cpp: Fix a wiki comment formatting error.
20110414 20:40:03< CIA-82> mordante * r49198 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:40:03< CIA-82> Improve widget_overview wiki comment handling.
20110414 20:40:03< CIA-82> - Uses a new way to get the regex.
20110414 20:40:03< CIA-82> - Allow `nicer' line wrapping.
20110414 20:40:04< CIA-82> The next commit will update the formatting used, the output remains
20110414 20:40:04< CIA-82> unchanged with this commit.
20110414 20:40:09< CIA-82> mordante * r49199 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/settings.cpp: 
20110414 20:40:09< CIA-82> Improve the formatting of widget_overview.
20110414 20:40:09< CIA-82> The wiki output remains unchanged.
20110414 20:40:13< CIA-82> mordante * r49200 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:40:13< CIA-82> Improve the dialog_widgets handling.
20110414 20:40:13< CIA-82> This also fixes the field separator when an empty field occurs. The
20110414 20:40:13< CIA-82> output is different, but only changes whitespace.
20110414 20:40:19< CIA-82> mordante * r49201 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: Let a string field contain at least one character.
20110414 20:40:24< CIA-82> mordante * r49202 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:40:24< CIA-82> Update the window_overview syntax.
20110414 20:40:24< CIA-82> This change has no changes to the output.
20110414 20:40:27< CIA-82> mordante * r49203 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:40:27< CIA-82> Update the variable_types syntax.
20110414 20:40:27< CIA-82> This change has no changes to the output.
20110414 20:40:30< CIA-82> mordante * r49204 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:40:30< CIA-82> Update formula table syntax.
20110414 20:40:30< CIA-82> This change has no changes to the output.
20110414 20:40:37< CIA-82> mordante * r49205 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/ (widget_definition.cpp window_builder.cpp): 
20110414 20:40:37< CIA-82> Fix a minor error in the wiki formatting.
20110414 20:40:37< CIA-82> No visible change, but fixes an issue with the rewritten parser.
20110414 20:40:43< CIA-82> mordante * r49206 /trunk/utils/wiki_grabber.py: 
20110414 20:40:43< CIA-82> Update config table wiki parser.
20110414 20:40:43< CIA-82> Minor change in whitespace, no real change in the output.
20110414 20:40:46< CIA-82> mordante * r49207 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/window_builder.cpp: 
20110414 20:40:46< CIA-82> Update format of the wiki comment.
20110414 20:40:46< CIA-82> No changes in the output.
20110414 20:40:56< CIA-82> mordante * r49208 /trunk/src/gui/auxiliary/widget_definition.cpp: 
20110414 20:40:56< CIA-82> Update format of the wiki comment.
20110414 20:40:56< CIA-82> No changes in the output.
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20110414 20:54:07< CIA-82> crab * r49209 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp side_filter.cpp side_filter.hpp): implement standard way of filtering for side in WML tags, using patch #2637 as inspiration
20110414 20:55:10< zookeeper> Crab_, oh, you got it done already?
20110414 20:56:04< Crab_> zookeeper: partially, and with some help from zaroth. but, lua tags will need some more work to behave correctly.
20110414 20:56:56< Crab_> zookeeper: basically, both side= and [filter_side] work. , and 'all' and comma-separated lists work in side=
20110414 20:57:02< mordante> automagic, for doxygen please use /** */ nice to keep the style consistent
20110414 20:57:27< mordante> automagic, and we had somebody who worked on replacing all /// with /** */, so please keep it that way
20110414 20:58:19< Crab_> zookeeper: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/StandardSideFilter
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20110414 20:59:07< Crab_> zookeeper: if you specify [tag] side=1,4 [filter_side] side=4,5 [/filter_side] [/tag] , side 4 will be selected.
20110414 20:59:18< Crab_> zookeeper: if you specify [tag] side=1,4 [/tag] , sides 1 and 4 will be selected.
20110414 20:59:33< Crab_> zookeeper: if you specify [tag]  [filter_side] side=4,5 [/filter_side] [/tag] , sides 4 and 5 will be selected.
20110414 20:59:57< Crab_> default (no filter_side, no side=) stays at side=1
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20110414 21:00:24< Crab_> [role] is untouched (there was some confusion about it, it hasn't got a side selector, it has got a SUF in it, so it was wrong in initial patch )
20110414 21:00:30< Crab_> default produces a warning.
20110414 21:01:54< Crab_> I will update the docs after I finish the lua part
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20110414 21:02:23< Crab_> I will add a link to all tags which now accept a 'side= or SSF' combo
20110414 21:03:05< sytyi> mordante: hi!
20110414 21:04:05< Aethaeryn> back
20110414 21:04:40< mordante> hi sytyi 
20110414 21:05:00< Upth> oh damn, I missed nephro, I wanted to toalk to him about something
20110414 21:05:15< sytyi> mordante: Sorry for not commiting today. I suugest I will finish this night
20110414 21:05:19< Upth> also talk
20110414 21:05:37< mordante> sytyi, regarding the this->, it is not needed most of the time
20110414 21:05:51< Upth> Looking at his proposal, it seems like he might be happier working on the AI brain for the entire coding period
20110414 21:05:53< mordante> sytyi, delete them and see your code still will compile
20110414 21:06:17< sytyi> mordante:  Thanks. 
20110414 21:06:20< Upth> which would be cool, because then the other miscellaneous enhancements could be done by a different student
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20110414 21:09:38< mordante> sytyi, ok, hope you manage to finish it tonight
20110414 21:09:54< mordante> sytyi, some more reading stuff regarding using std; http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/coding-standards.html#faq-27.5
20110414 21:10:20< mordante> sytyi, just curious did you learn "using std;" in school?
20110414 21:11:16< Upth> every programming class I've taken has taught "using namespace std;"
20110414 21:11:30< Upth> but every actual project I've worked on has avoided it
20110414 21:11:44< mordante> which is really sad, that they teach that bad habit
20110414 21:11:57< sytyi> mordante: yes, we lerned that. 
20110414 21:12:01< Aethaeryn> They teach plenty of bad habits in school.
20110414 21:12:19< Upth> I don't really understand why it is a bad habit, and more than one person has tried to explain it to me
20110414 21:12:32< zookeeper> Crab_, great, sounds good to me
20110414 21:12:32< mordante> sytyi, did they also teach the dangers
20110414 21:12:34< Aethaeryn> Also, according to school, I need to spend almost as much time commenting every conceivable line of code as actually writing the code. Despite the obvious drawback to that method in that someone maintaining the code might update the code and not the comment to save time.
20110414 21:12:57< sytyi> mordante: maybe when we were very nooby in c++ that was more understandable, and we did only small projects. 
20110414 21:13:34< Upth> school does tend to want too much documentation
20110414 21:13:34< mordante> yes it's safe in small projects, but horrible in larger projects
20110414 21:14:00< mordante> Upth, read the link I pasted for sytyi 
20110414 21:15:08< mordante> and in the original code it was in a header file, so can really easily 'contaminate' an entire codebase
20110414 21:15:47< mordante> sytyi, don't feel bad about the fact that you used it, I know it's being taught a lot
20110414 21:16:13< mordante> Aethaeryn, every line?
20110414 21:16:22< Disruption> the problem is they explain "namespace std" as a way to avoid writing std::<thing>
20110414 21:16:37< Disruption> and they don't really explain what are you actually doing when you write "using namespace std;" and it's consequences
20110414 21:16:45< Aethaeryn> mordante: Not necessarily every line, but I'd say almost every block.
20110414 21:16:47< sytyi> mordante: I've found an interesting Regex Coach. This is very helpful to debug regex )
20110414 21:17:01< Aethaeryn> Of course, they're not entirely clear on how much, so to not lose points I essentially comment every few lines.
20110414 21:17:41< mordante> Aethaeryn, great and they love code like »++i; // increase i by one« ?
20110414 21:17:51< Aethaeryn> Not quite that bad.
20110414 21:17:57< mordante> sytyi, ok cool, regexes are really nice
20110414 21:17:58< Aethaeryn> Actually, I think inline comments lose points.
20110414 21:18:07< Aethaeryn> So you literally double your length of code with the comments :-P
20110414 21:18:16< Upth> mordante: I recall reading this before, and understanding then, as I understand now, but for some reason it doesn't quite internalize
20110414 21:18:49< mordante> Upth, it will once you spend a time debugging code using "using std;" ;-)
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20110414 21:19:22< mordante> Aethaeryn, depends on how difficult the code is, but in general people comment too little
20110414 21:19:28< sytyi> mordante: Yes. Do you think I need to rewrite  parsing part using regexp substitutions? I writed parsing line by line thinking that it will take less memory  
20110414 21:19:45< mordante> however preferably comment contains only global descriptions and not values used in the code
20110414 21:19:49< Upth> mordante: as for "++i; // increase i by one" what they're really looking for is "++i; // increment the loop index"
20110414 21:20:12< Upth> ie: why you did that
20110414 21:20:27< Aethaeryn> Upth: Yeah, exactly. If it's a non-obvious move it makes sense.
20110414 21:20:28< mordante> Upth, exactly and why
20110414 21:20:35< Aethaeryn> I think in terms of classes, though, they're doing it to make sure you understand your own code.
20110414 21:20:40< Aethaeryn> i.e. no forum/Google magic
20110414 21:20:52< mordante> and if it's obvious the code should not have comment
20110414 21:20:58< Aethaeryn> If you're pulling out some random feature they never taught you, you better explain you know what it is.
20110414 21:21:21< Upth> thoguh "obvious" is subjective, and something that may be obvious to the coder may be completely obscure to another maintainer
20110414 21:21:29< mordante> I did write two lines of comment for a --x, since it converted between a 0 and 1 based system and it was not really obvious
20110414 21:21:40< Crab_> that's why it's better to comment the code that someone else has written )
20110414 21:22:04< mordante> sytyi, no, rather like you to finish the patch using the current approach
20110414 21:22:23< mordante> sytyi, then when it works and you have time you can improve it with regexes
20110414 21:23:04< mordante> Crab_, yup, or wait half a year and reread your code and comment
20110414 21:23:11< Crab_> :)
20110414 21:23:15< Crab_> exactly
20110414 21:23:25< mordante> Aethaeryn, btw is your proposal already finished?
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20110414 21:24:05< Upth> Crab_: I also wanted to talk to you about specification for my proposed [group] tag
20110414 21:25:01< Upth> at this point I'm thinking that the only mandatory element is id=group_name
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20110414 21:25:14< Aethaeryn> mordante: coding
20110414 21:25:38< mordante> Aethaeryn, ?
20110414 21:25:47< sytyi> mordante: Thanks. Tomorrow I have a trip to Kiev. I don't if I have any Internet there, but I'll try to improve patch. If I have an opportunity,I'll read the irclogs. Also I want to improve time line today.
20110414 21:25:59< Upth> optional elements include [filter] (with automatic=yes/no), and [AI]
20110414 21:26:23< mordante> sytyi, ok, then please post what you have before you leave
20110414 21:26:28< Crab_> Upth: btw, it would be  good thing to actually *use* your commit access to do something lua-related :)
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20110414 21:26:54< Crab_> Upth: since you're at disadvantage vs students which actually did that :)
20110414 21:26:54-!- grigoryj [~javadyan@46.70.232.238] has quit [Quit: i'll be back]
20110414 21:27:18< sytyi> mordante: Yes, ofcourse. Unfortunately, I'll be back on Sunday. :(
20110414 21:27:30-!- snoblo [~sno@160.79.104.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110414 21:28:24< mordante> sytyi, ok, well at least good to know when you will be back
20110414 21:28:43< mordante> a fun trip or something school related?
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20110414 21:29:36< Upth> Crab_: I understand. I'll try to get myself up to speed this weekend.
20110414 21:29:40< Crab_> ok
20110414 21:30:01-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110414 21:30:16< Upth> my schoolwork has been a lot more intense this spring than it was last spring
20110414 21:30:51< sytyi> mordante: Olimpiad of microprocessors programming. 
20110414 21:31:01< mordante> ah yes you said so
20110414 21:31:24-!- Upth is now known as Upthorn
20110414 21:31:43< Crab_> sytyi: sounds like a good thing )
20110414 21:31:52< sytyi> mordante: As I tryed to manage with wesnoth and school stuff I hope I'll not last ;)
20110414 21:32:44< sytyi> Crab_: maybe. If I stayed every day to train and train in it. 
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20110414 21:32:57< mordante> it always seems something students have to juggle with ;-)
20110414 21:33:07< Qbunia> hi
20110414 21:33:44< mordante> hi Qbunia 
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20110414 21:35:59< YogiHH> zaroth: hey there
20110414 21:39:47< sytyi> mordante: I suggest not to use \w in tag names
20110414 21:41:13< sytyi> mordante: That can include non latin symbols, am I right. The valid tag name is [a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z_-]*
20110414 21:43:05< sytyi> mordante:  sorry, sometimes I forget to use ? symbol in questions. 
20110414 21:43:07< mordante> sytyi, I'm not too familiar with Python, but I thought by default it's not in unicode mode
20110414 21:43:35< mordante> sytyi,  [a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z_-]* -> [a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z0-9_]* (so added numbers removed hypen)
20110414 21:44:05-!- Xenmen [~Administr@d99-199-58-219.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20110414 21:44:09< sytyi> mordante: Ohw, just forgot, I had writed with digits
20110414 21:44:13< mordante> sytyi, no problem, but I'm also reviewing proposals, so replies can take a while
20110414 21:44:30< mordante> and in general in IRC replies can take some time
20110414 21:44:39< sytyi> mordante: Then I will not disturb you in such little stuff.
20110414 21:44:53< Xenmen> Oh
20110414 21:44:53< mordante> sytyi, no ask when you want to know something
20110414 21:44:53< Xenmen> hrm
20110414 21:45:11< mordante> sytyi, it's just the reply can take a few minutes
20110414 21:45:19< Xenmen> mordante: I have some questions regarding changes for my proposal...
20110414 21:45:32< sytyi> mordante: Sometimes I ask just to know is my suggestions right
20110414 21:45:39 * mordante gives Xenmen some glasses (you need them if you think our codebase looks great ;-) )
20110414 21:45:46< Xenmen> XD
20110414 21:45:58 * Xenmen accepts the wide-rimmed wonders
20110414 21:46:01< mordante> sytyi, that's really no problem, feel free to do so
20110414 21:46:23 * Xenmen 's eyes melt because the lenses were just magnifying glasses
20110414 21:46:32< mordante> Xenmen, I probably have some answers to your questions ... if only I knew what they were :-P
20110414 21:46:42< Xenmen> excellent!   :D
20110414 21:46:46< Xenmen> in short
20110414 21:47:04< Xenmen> drop-in multiplayer
20110414 21:47:20< Xenmen> how does that sound to you?
20110414 21:47:33< Xenmen> (I have a lot more to this, but a lot hangs on the coolness of that one idea)
20110414 21:48:27< Xenmen> also, a way for the game to go on if the host suddenly disconnects
20110414 21:48:51< Xenmen> ultimately, I want to completely restructure Wesnoth for a strict client-server style
20110414 21:48:58< Xenmen> so that even singleplayer games run on a local server
20110414 21:49:17< Xenmen> and I'm wondering if something that radical is acceptable
20110414 21:49:43< Xenmen> because there's a good chance it's beyond the scope of one summer of GSoC
20110414 21:49:48< Xenmen> oh and Crab is here
20110414 21:49:49< Crab_> Xenmen: acceptable, in theory. in practice, you need to start coding before we can consider that it's serious :)
20110414 21:49:51< Xenmen> Crab_: HULLO CRAB!
20110414 21:49:57< Crab_> Xenmen: hello
20110414 21:50:07< Xenmen> True, true
20110414 21:51:18< Xenmen> thank-you
20110414 21:52:00< mordante> Xenmen, what is the advantage of playing a single player game on the server?
20110414 21:52:22< Xenmen> it simplifies the code, actually
20110414 21:52:34< Xenmen> otherwise
20110414 21:52:47< Xenmen> you have all this code for running a singleplayer game
20110414 21:52:54< Xenmen> and then multiplayer becomes an awkward hack on top of that
20110414 21:53:02< Xenmen> and both need to be updated when something new is added
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20110414 21:53:13< Xenmen> but if singleplayer is treated as a limited multiplayer game
20110414 21:53:35< Xenmen> then there's no separate code for SP and MP
20110414 21:53:42< Xenmen> in an in-game sense
20110414 21:53:48< Xenmen> how to put it...
20110414 21:53:50< Crab_> Xenmen: this doesn't require a local server.
20110414 21:54:15< Xenmen> Crab_: isn't there an advantage to it?
20110414 21:54:19< Crab_> Xenmen: i.e. you can hold serverless MP if you just use a 'stub' server.
20110414 21:54:33< mordante> ok you just present your idea, by offering the solution ;-)
20110414 21:55:07< mordante> and I think unifying MP/SP is a good idea, whether it means we need to run a local server or not is another issue
20110414 21:55:25< Crab_> Xenmen: so, you're in fact talking about multiple ideas at once, one for SP/MP unification, and another for 'always have a server and convert to client-server style'
20110414 21:55:33< Xenmen> Crab_: yes
20110414 21:55:40< Xenmen> they seemed interdependent
20110414 21:55:47< Xenmen> but yes, two separate big ideas
20110414 21:55:58< Xenmen> the latter seems key to the former
20110414 21:55:59< mordante> for example it might be possible to use a transparent message protocol, which can be used locally and via TCP/IP
20110414 21:56:02< Crab_> Xenmen: yes, you're right, interdependent at start
20110414 21:57:00< mordante> so I like the unification, whether the proper solution to always run a server is another question
20110414 21:57:18< Xenmen> mordante: point taken; it's just the fix that I've seen used most often
20110414 21:57:25< mordante> also you proposed to move calculations to the server, which calculations do you want to move there
20110414 21:57:57< Xenmen> *Everything*
20110414 21:58:00< Crab_> mordante: most of my goals for the 'unification' project are within 'allow fun things to be done to a game, either before it has begun\loaded or after it is over/saved'
20110414 21:58:18< Crab_> mordante: i.e., specify additional options, transform SP to MP and back, etc
20110414 21:58:23< vjoe> what server are we talking about here? a 3rd party - ie, someone which is not any of the players?
20110414 21:58:27-!- Disruption [~Disruptio@185.Red-81-34-191.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
20110414 21:58:34< vjoe> or the host?
20110414 21:58:39< sytyi> Crab_: maybe I schould leave my cell phone number to you? To let mentors a chance to connect me if any trouble?
20110414 21:58:48< mordante> Xenmen, I don't think it's a bad solution per se, it's just you first presented a solution without stating the problem.
20110414 21:58:50< Xenmen> mordante: basically, I'm thinking of putting everything that's 'Wesnoth' right now (as far as playing the game) into the server, and making the client a glorified renderer
20110414 21:59:00< Xenmen> Ah, good point
20110414 21:59:19< mordante> Xenmen, so when reading your idea I didn't know what the grand scheme behind it was
20110414 21:59:32< Xenmen> vjoe: no, first party
20110414 21:59:59< Crab_> sytyi: you can leave a phone in google's tracker, or send it to me personally.
20110414 21:59:59< Xenmen> joe: centralizing all game logic and action into one process, regardless whether it's SP or MP
20110414 22:00:04< vjoe> mordante: I would say the problem is a great deal of complexity
20110414 22:00:11< Xenmen> vjoe: instead of a synchronized replay, like MP is right now
20110414 22:00:18< mordante> Crab_, my goal for it is to unify the code and have the same bu^Wfeatures in MP and SP
20110414 22:00:19< vjoe> that merging all the "stuff" in one place would take care of
20110414 22:00:24< vjoe> yep
20110414 22:00:31< Crab_> mordante: yes, this as well :))
20110414 22:00:44< vjoe> Xenmen: there is a lot of synching and organization taking place
20110414 22:00:46< vjoe> that is a good idea
20110414 22:00:58< mordante> vjoe, yes I like the code unified as well, just wanted to know which problem Xenmen wanted to fix
20110414 22:01:03< Crab_> sytyi: if you want to meet in person and talk, also possible (this friday 07-17, saturday  07-11 )
20110414 22:01:31< vjoe> mordante: well, potential problems in synching stuff would go away
20110414 22:01:38< vjoe> Xenmen: however
20110414 22:01:43< mordante> Xenmen, when you move all calculations to the server, what does that mean for the CPU usage on the server
20110414 22:01:43< Xenmen> mordante: good point; my main motivation was "what's something really cool that would streamline the game, and simplify the code"
20110414 22:01:52< vjoe> yeah
20110414 22:01:54< vjoe> exactly
20110414 22:02:01< Xenmen> mordante: that means the server does use more cycles
20110414 22:02:03< Xenmen> HOWEVER
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20110414 22:02:15< Xenmen> no more than what the clients already do
20110414 22:02:22< Xenmen> plus
20110414 22:02:25< mordante> Xenmen, mainly regarding servers that host 100+ games
20110414 22:02:31< Qbunia> Crab_: is there any date after which i cannot update anymore my proporsal on wiki ? 
20110414 22:02:31< Xenmen> hrm
20110414 22:02:44< vjoe> mordante: he means the server as in the host
20110414 22:02:46< vjoe> of a match
20110414 22:02:55< vjoe> so if I create a 1vs1 in the lobby
20110414 22:02:55-!- EdB [~edb@89.82.194.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110414 22:02:57< Xenmen> oh
20110414 22:02:57< vjoe> and u join
20110414 22:02:58< Xenmen> OH
20110414 22:03:03< Xenmen> mordante: you're referring to the AI tests
20110414 22:03:20< Xenmen> mordante: the champion versus challenger matches
20110414 22:03:28< Xenmen> great Scott, I forgot about that
20110414 22:03:44< timotei21> sytyi: nice contest. is it international? Cause I'd be really interested in that
20110414 22:03:45< mordante> sytyi, in general we like a phone number of students to reach them in case of a problem, you can leave it as private comment in your proposal
20110414 22:03:47< vjoe> I do think though, that having both possibilities available is the best
20110414 22:03:51< Xenmen> well, all I can say is "with my solution, running 100 matches on one server would be bloody nuts"
20110414 22:03:51< timotei21> lately hardware stuff caught me very much
20110414 22:04:06< vjoe> in a match where we have 2 players playing on an unplugged laptop
20110414 22:04:13< vjoe> im sure they would prefer to share the cpu calcs
20110414 22:04:16< Crab_> Qbunia: you can update it at any time. for gsoc purposes, however, it's best to do it this week.
20110414 22:04:17< timotei21> and doing MIPS related architecture from ground-up, with forwarding and branch prediction stuff, would help me going to a contest :P
20110414 22:04:19-!- timotei21 is now known as timotei
20110414 22:04:30< mordante> vjoe, I see the advantages ;-)
20110414 22:04:40< Xenmen> vjoe: the problem is that having both options available means a more complicated codebase
20110414 22:04:49< Xenmen> I mean, really, really messy
20110414 22:04:50< vjoe> not if the code is modular enough
20110414 22:04:56< vjoe> just call a different controller depending on the choice
20110414 22:04:58< Xenmen> XD
20110414 22:05:04< Xenmen> KISS
20110414 22:05:13< Xenmen> really, I experimented with that a bit
20110414 22:05:15< vjoe> how isnt modular simple?
20110414 22:05:25< mordante> Xenmen, I refer to our MP server where all MP users connect to and play games on
20110414 22:05:25< Xenmen> too many pieces to remember then
20110414 22:05:41< vjoe> Xenmen: what do you mean? lol
20110414 22:05:53< Xenmen> mordante: how so?
20110414 22:05:55< vjoe> it's not as if wesnoth is a one man project
20110414 22:06:02< mordante> at the moment that server is just a mailbox, and we already did several optimizations on it to save memory
20110414 22:06:12< vjoe> Xenmen: the "thing" which auths ur login
20110414 22:06:16< Xenmen> vjoe: I mean too many pieces and nobody really knows what any of them do anymore
20110414 22:06:26< Xenmen> well, yes, I know THAT, but what about it?
20110414 22:06:34< vjoe> Xenmen: each person only needs to know about the piece they maintain
20110414 22:06:39< Qbunia> Crab_: so after weekend it rly bad time to make any changes okey got it thx for info ^ ^
20110414 22:06:40< vjoe> that's how large projects work
20110414 22:06:54< vjoe> and if they are designed properly, they will fit together nicely
20110414 22:07:00< mordante> so when it needs to calculate things it also needs to have a 'game shell' so use more memory and use more cpu cycles
20110414 22:07:37< vjoe> mordante: yeah but I dont think Xenmen was referring to that server
20110414 22:07:41< Xenmen> mordante: Ah; I didn't mean running game logic on that server, no; only the 'server' in the sense of a separate process at the host end
20110414 22:07:52< vjoe> it would be a bit unrealistic to have one machine hosting loads of matches
20110414 22:08:02< Xenmen> *yes*
20110414 22:08:05< Xenmen> it would be damned insane
20110414 22:08:07< Xenmen> :D
20110414 22:08:17< Xenmen> except for
20110414 22:08:18< Xenmen> very
20110414 22:08:19< Xenmen> very
20110414 22:08:20< vjoe> we would need a proper big data center in virginia or so
20110414 22:08:21< vjoe> haha
20110414 22:08:23< Xenmen> unique cases
20110414 22:08:28< vjoe> well
20110414 22:08:30< vjoe> server center
20110414 22:08:43< Xenmen> when a corporation has a few billion to blow, sure
20110414 22:08:55< vjoe> i do like the p2p approach
20110414 22:09:01< vjoe> i think we all agree on that
20110414 22:09:05< Aethaeryn> If a corporation has a few billion dollars to blow and doesn't care how, they can appoint me as someone who can find ways to do so for them.
20110414 22:09:32< vjoe> Aethaeryn: nah, they will be concerned on how to make more billions to blow
20110414 22:09:34< mordante> vjoe, Xenmen we have a server for MP games and that server needs to host 100+ games
20110414 22:09:35< vjoe> ;)
20110414 22:09:40 * Xenmen approves of Aethaeryn's notion
20110414 22:09:43< Aethaeryn> "Are you sure we need a UHDTV with 22.2 surround sound in the lobby?" "Yes."
20110414 22:09:47< vjoe> mordante: yes but it doesnt take care of the cpu load
20110414 22:09:55< vjoe> right?
20110414 22:10:06< mordante> vjoe, ?
20110414 22:10:13< vjoe> well, if I am playing u
20110414 22:10:23< vjoe> and i attack u, its my pc that takes care of the dmg calcs
20110414 22:10:25< vjoe> not the server
20110414 22:10:28< mordante> yes
20110414 22:10:28< Xenmen> mordante: I see the problem now...
20110414 22:10:57< vjoe> mordante: I believe Xenmen is talking about moving those calcs to a pc of one of the players
20110414 22:11:01< vjoe> not to the wesnoth server
20110414 22:11:15< Xenmen> does the main server
20110414 22:11:22< Xenmen> just keep tallies on stuff
20110414 22:11:24< Xenmen> or
20110414 22:11:26< mordante> vjoe, which is a bad idea, don't trust the user
20110414 22:11:30< Xenmen> what exactly does it do right now
20110414 22:11:48< vjoe> mordante: true, can lead to hacks and stuff
20110414 22:12:05< mordante> exactly so that's not an option
20110414 22:12:13< Xenmen> well
20110414 22:12:26< Xenmen> how is the central server preventing that right now?
20110414 22:12:27< mordante> Xenmen, the main server just keeps message for example
20110414 22:12:35< vjoe> Xenmen: it doesnt
20110414 22:12:42< Xenmen> D:
20110414 22:12:42< vjoe> but having player a and b doing the same calcs
20110414 22:12:47< vjoe> prevents one from hacking
20110414 22:12:52< Xenmen> Aaaah
20110414 22:12:52< vjoe> bc if they differ
20110414 22:12:55< vjoe> it wont work
20110414 22:12:57< vjoe> right?
20110414 22:13:01< mordante> you recruit a unit x for y gold at location a,b
20110414 22:13:06< Xenmen> now THAT'S a waste of cycles
20110414 22:13:11< Xenmen> but yeah, I see how that prevents cheating
20110414 22:13:20< vjoe> Xenmen: it's required redundancy
20110414 22:13:23< mordante> in fact you don't tell the amount of gold
20110414 22:13:29< vjoe> eventually when you have 2+ players
20110414 22:13:34< vjoe> you might try to "take turns"
20110414 22:13:36< vjoe> or something
20110414 22:13:39< vjoe> which can be a good idea
20110414 22:13:40< mordante> you tell I recruited unit a at x,y and send that to the server
20110414 22:13:46< mordante> all clients do the same
20110414 22:14:07< mordante> if you changed the gold cost from your unit from 18 to 8 and have 10 gold you can recruit a unit
20110414 22:14:30< mordante> I recruit the same unit and end with -8 gold
20110414 22:14:53< mordante> so I can't recruit and I get a dialog with tells me an out of sync error occurs
20110414 22:15:03< vjoe> yeah
20110414 22:15:13< mordante> (this dialog means either a bug in Wesnoth or a user that cheated)
20110414 22:15:22< Xenmen> but if the server is modified, then the host can cheat
20110414 22:15:29< Xenmen> with my solution
20110414 22:15:41-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110414 22:15:41< mordante> luckily we control our own server ;-)
20110414 22:15:53< mordante> and I rather trust a server as a random user
20110414 22:16:00< vjoe> yeah you have hacked servers in every game
20110414 22:16:05< vjoe> just play on the official one
20110414 22:16:18< Xenmen> However
20110414 22:16:25< Xenmen> it just occurred to me
20110414 22:16:39< Xenmen> if AI is not allowed on any matches played on the official server
20110414 22:16:54< Xenmen> then that pretty much removes the "HUGE CPU USAGE" problem
20110414 22:17:06< vjoe> still
20110414 22:17:07< Crab_> Xenmen: no, WML calculations will take time, as well
20110414 22:17:13< vjoe> if you centralize stuff on server
20110414 22:17:31< vjoe> then you will have a bigger volume of msgs
20110414 22:17:35< Crab_> true
20110414 22:17:50< vjoe> that wont be scalability friendly
20110414 22:17:58< vjoe> hm
20110414 22:18:00< vjoe> that didnt sound right
20110414 22:18:01< vjoe> ha
20110414 22:18:10< vjoe> scale-friendly, perhaps
20110414 22:18:18< mordante> also keep in mind it's not only CPU usage but also memory usage
20110414 22:18:48< vjoe> plus, it would bit more prone to lag
20110414 22:18:54< CIA-82> mordante * r49210 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Fix compiler warning.
20110414 22:19:39< Xenmen> well
20110414 22:19:42< Xenmen> there goes my idea
20110414 22:19:43< mordante> not sure whether the lag would be noticeable
20110414 22:19:55< Xenmen> it's either it or the ladder   X]
20110414 22:20:05< mordante> Xenmen, you still have the MP/SP unification
20110414 22:20:27< noy> wesbot: seen boucman?
20110414 22:20:28< wesbot> noy: Queried user last spoke 1d ago.  boucman is currently in this channel.
20110414 22:20:46< boucman> hey noy
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20110414 22:20:51< Xenmen> hrm
20110414 22:20:53< boucman> :P
20110414 22:20:55< mordante> :-)
20110414 22:20:59< Xenmen> true mordante, true
20110414 22:21:08< mordante> boucman, you scared him :-P
20110414 22:21:12< Xenmen> that one step could still be made
20110414 22:21:18< boucman> that I did...
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20110414 22:23:03< noy> hey
20110414 22:23:16< Xenmen> noy: welcome back!   :P
20110414 22:23:17< mordante> hi noy 
20110414 22:26:42< Xenmen> well
20110414 22:26:51< Xenmen> I guess merging sp/mp
20110414 22:26:59< Xenmen> and creating a client/server system
20110414 22:27:04< Xenmen> but keeping the current network protocol
20110414 22:27:22< Xenmen> is a way to get progress without breaking the universe
20110414 22:27:24< Xenmen> D:
20110414 22:27:31< Xenmen> Crab_: how's that sound?
20110414 22:27:36< Xenmen> prior to a proper writeup
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20110414 22:28:03< vjoe> i can see the new design being a good excuse for some refactoring
20110414 22:28:13< vjoe> finally, version 2
20110414 22:28:14< vjoe> haha
20110414 22:28:16< Xenmen> XD
20110414 22:28:18< Xenmen> I hope!
20110414 22:28:33< Xenmen> it's been long in coming
20110414 22:28:36< mordante> keeping the current network protocol would be nice
20110414 22:28:56< mordante> and merging MP/SP is really great to have
20110414 22:29:50< Xenmen> well then
20110414 22:29:54< Xenmen> it's proposal rewriting time!
20110414 22:29:56< Xenmen> :D
20110414 22:29:59< Xenmen> mordante: thanks
20110414 22:30:02< Xenmen> Crab
20110414 22:30:06< mordante> you're welcome
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20110414 22:30:10< Xenmen> Crab_: thanks also
20110414 22:31:20< mordante> I'm off night
20110414 22:31:25< vjoe> good night mordante 
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20110414 22:31:47< vjoe> Crab_: I'm going to write a nice little text with my ideas for the design of the new architecture
20110414 22:31:57< vjoe> I will add that to my proposal in 30-60mins
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20110414 22:43:58 * Soliton notes that the server chooses the random numbers for attacks nowadays.
20110414 22:46:38< Aethaeryn> Soliton: So you can't cheat as host by using a client with modified source so that the random numbers aren't random?
20110414 22:46:40< Xenmen> Soliton: that's the first step, yes   :D
20110414 22:47:14< Xenmen> Aethaeryn: conceivably you could
20110414 22:47:16< Soliton> Aethaeryn: it's not host specific but yes.
20110414 22:48:34< Aethaeryn> That would be an interesting project for someone to do... to see how many ways they could cheat in MP.
20110414 22:48:43< Aethaeryn> (And fix them of course!)
20110414 22:49:01< Xenmen> XD
20110414 22:49:57< Aethaeryn> of course, probably wouldn't make a good GSOC. That kind of stuff would best be done right before devel is ready. Otherwise you break stable for months since anyone with a web browser could find the bugs.
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20110414 22:57:04< Crab_> vjoe: ok
20110414 22:57:30< Crab_> Aethaeryn: you can't cheat by  using a client with modified source so that the random numbers aren't random.
20110414 22:57:44< Crab_> Aethaeryn: it will OOS on other clients
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20110414 22:58:46< Aethaeryn> Crab_: Yes, but perhaps you could cheat by as host creating a Lua script that parses units. If side == 1, you give them a cryptomarksman of sorts, i.e. the same effect of marksman ability but w/o the actual visible label "marksman"
20110414 22:59:10< Crab_> Aethaeryn: no, won''t work. because the attack which hits for you won't hit on other clients
20110414 23:00:02< Aethaeryn> If it's an add-on that doesn't require download?
20110414 23:00:09< Aethaeryn> I just need to think of a hypothetical where they could mask it
20110414 23:00:09< Crab_> Aethaeryn: ah, now I understand )
20110414 23:00:31< Crab_> Aethaeryn: yes, it would work
20110414 23:01:33< Crab_> Aethaeryn: but it is in cleartext in replay
20110414 23:01:35< timotei> boucman: you could use that hack guarded by an OPEN_MP define :P
20110414 23:01:50< Crab_> Aethaeryn: so, if you are suspected, someone will be able to prove it
20110414 23:01:53-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110414 23:01:56< boucman> true
20110414 23:02:06< boucman> i'll give it a try this WE
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20110414 23:06:26< YogiHH> zaroth: i had a look at the controller classes and it already is pretty much like single player is a special case of multiplayer.
20110414 23:07:22< YogiHH> zaroth: Basically playmp_controller inherits from playsingle_controller and adds its own stuff like the clock and network receiving / sending.
20110414 23:09:05< YogiHH> zaroth: There are still some redundancies between the two and there is potential for further merging. I'd say it is definitely worth a look.
20110414 23:09:44< YogiHH> zaroth: However, i wouldn't make that priority number one, as your basic idea is more or less there already.
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20110414 23:21:43< vjoe> Crab_: 
20110414 23:21:51< vjoe> currently, you can't change difficulty mid campaign
20110414 23:21:53< vjoe> right?
20110414 23:22:51< Soliton> just by editing a save.
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20110414 23:26:12< vjoe> yeah
20110414 23:26:14< vjoe> ok
20110414 23:26:49< Crab_> vjoe: as Soliton said.
20110414 23:27:40< vjoe> yeah
20110414 23:28:18< vjoe> Crab_: i'll post this on saturday instead, i want to explain everything in detail, etc etc
20110414 23:28:28< vjoe> basically, do everything i can to make your selection process harder
20110414 23:28:29< vjoe> eheh
20110414 23:28:41< vjoe> also, it's past my bed time, gotta be up at 6 tomo
20110414 23:28:43< Crab_> vjoe: ok.
20110414 23:28:44< vjoe> good night guys!
20110414 23:28:46< Crab_> vjoe: working code ! 
20110414 23:28:52< Crab_> vjoe: this will surely make everything harder :))
20110414 23:28:58< Crab_> vjoe: good night :)
20110414 23:28:59< vjoe> Crab_: well
20110414 23:29:01< vjoe> i fixed a bug
20110414 23:29:11< vjoe> even though fendrin told me it was pointless
20110414 23:29:14< vjoe> :P
20110414 23:29:25< Crab_> well, fixing bugs is not, usually, pointless :)))
20110414 23:29:34< vjoe> thing is, I think it is slightly unfair to expect people to do massive amounts of coding now
20110414 23:29:43< vjoe> considering it is suppose to be a project for the summer
20110414 23:29:51< vjoe> dont get me wrong Crab_, but I have a full time internship
20110414 23:29:58< vjoe> my schedule is pretty full atm
20110414 23:30:11< vjoe> it will be free for the GSoC, hence why i am applying
20110414 23:30:14< Crab_> vjoe: yes, we understand. but we do so to reduce risk.
20110414 23:30:15< vjoe> i dont like having free time
20110414 23:30:23< vjoe> yes, totally
20110414 23:30:30< vjoe> an internet recruitment process is much harder
20110414 23:30:42< vjoe> i comprehend that
20110414 23:30:54< vjoe> but there are other things that convey reliability and dedication
20110414 23:31:15< vjoe> however, I'm sure you guys have thought of all that and have a good balance in the selection team
20110414 23:31:31< vjoe> good night Crab_!
20110414 23:31:37< Crab_> vjoe: good night
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20110414 23:38:17< shadowmaster> timotei: yes, you are right. Windows does not implement the exec() family of functions, nor the vfork/fork system calls
20110414 23:38:56< boucman> is there an equivalent we could use ?
20110414 23:39:04< shadowmaster> it's a well known portability issue
20110414 23:39:06< timotei> maybe cmd /c 
20110414 23:39:28< shadowmaster> well, there's the CreateProcessEx() Win32 API call,m I guess
20110414 23:39:45< shadowmaster> I mean CreateProcess
20110414 23:40:43< timotei> well, actually CreateProcessA, since the arguments are already ansi chars
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20110414 23:43:35< shadowmaster> timotei: sure there's a W version
20110414 23:44:33-!- lfzawacki [~chatzilla@189.30.243.107] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110414 23:45:13< shadowmaster> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682425%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
20110414 23:46:05< timotei> well, yeah, but I've said about the already existing: char * argv[]. using an A instead of W, so no wide char conversion needed :P
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20110414 23:47:17< shadowmaster> elias: execv(argv[0], argv); isn't safe enough IIRC.
20110414 23:48:11< Aethaeryn> Why does code need to compile on Windows? ;-P
20110414 23:48:12< shadowmaster> more specifically, IIRC there's no guarantee that argv[0] is really the full path to the image
20110414 23:48:14< elias> shadowmaster: well, it only has to work where lingomp works
20110414 23:48:19< elias> *libgomp
20110414 23:48:32< elias> yeah, i think on non-linux argv[0] behaves differently
20110414 23:48:40< elias> but who uses bsd :P
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20110414 23:53:03< sytyi> timotei: hi
20110414 23:53:27< timotei> Aethaeryn: because windows is stil used for about 80% of desktop pcs ;)
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20110414 23:53:35< timotei> and it makes a lot of sense to support Windows
20110414 23:53:38< timotei> hi sytyi 
20110414 23:55:09-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Quit: SIGKILL]
20110414 23:55:10< sytyi> timotei: sorry, didn't see your post. I've posted my number to Crab_ cause we live in one country. I can not say my number is international. But you can call me in Skype or ICQ instead of
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 15 00:00:57 2011