--- Log opened Fri Apr 15 00:00:57 2011
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20110415 00:09:56< sytyi> can anyone who is rather close to WML say if any tag can be used more then one but less then N times
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20110415 00:11:12< zaroth> mordante: thanks! I'm also happy about that :-)
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20110415 00:23:11< zaroth> sytyi: [side] ! you can't have more than 9 sides in wesnoth ;-)
20110415 00:24:06< zaroth> YogiHH: by not making it priority number one, did you mean unification or merging of the controllers?
20110415 00:24:27< sytyi> zaroth: thanks. So I can't remove number of max occurence with  regex-like quantors * + ?
20110415 00:24:51< zaroth> sytyi: well, you have {1,9} in regex as well
20110415 00:25:17< sytyi> zaroth: yes, but I've about my annotations format.
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20110415 00:25:57< zaroth> sytyi: I think you accidentally a word
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20110415 00:26:08< sytyi> zaroth: thanks :) 
20110415 00:27:57< shadowmaster> zaroth, sytyi : That's not true.
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20110415 00:28:08< shadowmaster> one of my first campaign's scenarios has 14 sides
20110415 00:28:56< zaroth> shadowmaster: hmm, I remember reading on forum somewhere that 9 is max and somebody saying that 9 is enough for anyone... but they could be wrong as well ;-)
20110415 00:29:14< shadowmaster> 9 is the maximum the MP server and client itnerface allows at the moment
20110415 00:30:16< shadowmaster> or so I heard.
20110415 00:31:03< shadowmaster> also, the map editor won't allow you to place more than 9 starting locations. I believe side numbers greater than 10 are not valid for the map parser at the moment either, so for those you need to use some WML in a event to create leaders.
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20110415 00:32:33< zaroth> shadowmaster: so you placed starting positions of your 14 sides by hand in WML, then?
20110415 00:33:28< shadowmaster> not all of them had starting locations
20110415 00:34:04< shadowmaster> I mean, not all of them needed leaders. And apparently I ended up reducing the side count to 11 and leaving sides 10 and 11 leader-less
20110415 00:35:17< shadowmaster> the real issue is that mainline Wesnoth only has 9 team color ranges. In my campaign there are three additional CRs for use.
20110415 00:35:31< shadowmaster> namely yellow, pink, and a redundant cyan
20110415 00:36:30< shadowmaster> it is not feasible to introduce more ranges in mainline because (unless I'm overlooking something) they'd look pretty similar to some of all of the first nine to some people, and that's not considering the issue of color-blind players
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20110415 00:49:38< zaroth> wesbot: who is your creator?
20110415 00:52:01< sytyi> zaroth: Crab wrote him. I dont know if Crab is his parent, but he worked on him too 
20110415 00:52:24< shadowmaster> wrong. wesbot is Rhonda's, nagbot is Crab_'s.
20110415 00:52:44< zaroth> I thought about a cool feature that could be useful for it
20110415 00:53:08< zaroth> something that people could register at it for something like voice mail
20110415 00:53:20< zaroth> so even those who don't read logs
20110415 00:53:33< zaroth> would see in query from wesbot the things other left for them
20110415 00:53:43< zaroth> I'm not sure if YogiHH reads logs for example :-)
20110415 00:53:55< shadowmaster> FWIW shikadibot is mine and uses my own Rei 2 IRC Bot framework, which is officially open for feature requests.
20110415 00:54:48< shadowmaster> although I'm busier right now with developing a ew IRC client in Perl to use as a backend. Rei 2 uses irssi atm.
20110415 00:54:51< shadowmaster> *new
20110415 00:55:07< zaroth> irssi has its own scripting lang?
20110415 00:55:18< shadowmaster> no. It uses Perl.
20110415 00:56:15< shadowmaster> it can run Perl scripts within itself as plugins of sorts, and exposes some of its public C API through Perl as well
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20110415 00:57:24< zaroth> ah, I misunderstood then what you meant under "backend" :-)
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20110415 00:57:45< zaroth> well, writing one's own client seems like a nice pastime
20110415 00:58:09< zaroth> is irssi somehow limiting or you just wanted it to be as light as possible?
20110415 00:58:23< shadowmaster> the latter
20110415 00:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 198 bugs, 312 feature requests, 22 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110415 00:59:50< shadowmaster> also because a certain pest keeps mocking me for not writing a "real" IRC bot.
20110415 01:00:30< shadowmaster> the principle of not reinventing the wheel is not known to him.
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20110415 01:02:32 * zaroth was today at Kaspersky's conference and did quite a facepalm when he heard a guy boasting about doing of his own implementation of a cryptography algorithm and using it in his product
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20110415 01:03:33< zaroth> the prelection about Linux's insecurities was quite nice, though, even if a bit basic
20110415 01:03:42< zaroth> and I got a t-shirt ;-)
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20110415 02:31:52< sytyi> mordante: Some problems trying to parse "", which is used in default ; Other keys are parsing good, only this stuff. 
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20110415 03:36:14< fendrin> wesbot: seen timotei?
20110415 03:36:14< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick timotei last spoke 3h 42m ago.  3h 41m ago they left with the message: Quit: SIGKILL
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20110415 04:01:44< sytyi> mordante: Everything is good, sended to gna sources. Improved timeline with milestones. But I have not implemented types in this version of example. They are the same as in wiki. Further work I think will need something more about types.
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20110415 05:07:29< fendrin> shadowmaster, Gambit: I would like to make a sticky announcement on the umc eclipse plugin in http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=8
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20110415 08:03:18< timotei> morning fendrin 
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20110415 09:25:00< timotei> hi Soliton 
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20110415 09:28:36< Sytyi> timotei: hi
20110415 09:28:42< timotei> hi Sytyi :P
20110415 09:28:47< CIA-82> timotei * r49211 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/ (META-INF/MANIFEST.MF src/org/wesnoth/ui/WMLUiModule.java): eclipse plugin: get rid of the jdt dependency
20110415 09:28:50< timotei> Sytyi: well, I didn't want any phone number xD
20110415 09:28:59< timotei> I think you highlighted the wrong person
20110415 09:29:10< timotei> I just asked about the microprocessor contest ;)
20110415 09:29:22< CIA-82> timotei * r49212 /trunk/utils/java/ (3 files in 3 dirs): eclipse plugin: Update the feature version
20110415 09:29:37< CIA-82> timotei * r49213 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/ (Logger.java utils/WorkspaceUtils.java): 
20110415 09:29:37< CIA-82> eclipse plugin: Use the native java messagebox
20110415 09:29:37< CIA-82> in case we had any errors setting up the logger
20110415 09:29:37< CIA-82> instead of using eclipse's shell which was not
20110415 09:29:37< CIA-82> even created yet.
20110415 09:29:43< Sytyi> timotei: Ow, sorry I misunderstood you
20110415 09:30:06< CIA-82> timotei * r49214 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/Makefile: eclipse plugin: update the makefile to generate the javadoc aswell
20110415 09:30:16< timotei> no problem :)
20110415 09:30:24< timotei> fendrin: ^ the makefile now generates the javadoc
20110415 09:30:40< timotei> fendrin: I'll talk with soliton to add it to the cron job ;)
20110415 09:31:01< timotei> though, IDK how to solve that 2 errors javadoc triggers
20110415 09:32:25< Sytyi> timotei: It is not international. One firm produces stands to study at and organises contests
20110415 09:32:33< timotei> oh. ok:)
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20110415 10:17:39< Ivanovic> moin
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20110415 11:07:57< Nephro> Upthorn, hi
20110415 11:08:04< Nephro> Were you looking for me yesterday?
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20110415 11:39:22< Nephro> Ivanovic, hi! I've taken your feedback into account and boosted my proposal. Could you take a look at it? I promise it will be interesting enough :)
20110415 11:40:16< Nephro> Maybe I could still manage to fix something there, since the "day" is close
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20110415 11:43:00< Ivanovic> Nephro: you had a look at crabs proposal from two years ago?
20110415 11:43:11< Nephro> I did
20110415 11:43:15< Ivanovic> how he handled stuff with deliverables, minimum and additional stuff?
20110415 11:45:06< Nephro> Ivanovic, well, there is this problem that the obligatory Lua stuff is fairly straightforward, so it's hard to break it down, it just has to be done. About my part of the project, well, I wrote in the big text what I expect to complete by the end of the summer, and what will I do afterwards
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20110415 11:45:54< Nephro> The timeline that I have now is all to be done, but I can stick some additional rows to it, and add a column about the importance of the task
20110415 11:46:15< Ivanovic> yeah, some column about the importance makes sense
20110415 11:46:41< Ivanovic> it would also be nice to see more clearly what you see as your main milestones
20110415 11:46:53< Ivanovic> (mainly a part usable to judge at the mid terms how things are progressing)
20110415 11:47:32< Ivanovic> the usual thing was to say something along the lines "okay, things are progressing but you are a little hind the timeline, just make sure that the mandatory parts are there"
20110415 11:47:53< Ivanovic> that is why i insist this much on such a split to already have an idea where to cut in case it is required
20110415 11:48:53< Nephro> Ok, then I'll repair that :) Thanks.
20110415 11:49:15< Ivanovic> beside this: working on patches does never hurt
20110415 11:49:16< Ivanovic> ;)
20110415 11:51:19< Nephro> Ivanovic, constantly working on them :) Yesterday, I encountered a weird technical problem in a "almost-done" patch, and sent it to Crab, so he can take a look at it. The code was complete, it compiled, but needed testing, but one object seemed to crash everything in runtime... That should also be solved by the end of today
20110415 11:51:45< Ivanovic> sounds good to me
20110415 11:51:57< Ivanovic> and yeah, weird problems happen every now and then, nothing special there
20110415 11:51:58< Ivanovic> ;)
20110415 11:52:09< Ivanovic> (on weird problem is, i think, called "windows")
20110415 11:52:39< Ivanovic> not only talking about some software implementation, the hardware solution also has its share of problems
20110415 11:55:55< Nephro> :D Yeah, windows and msvc9 are a real gift sometimes. But anyway, I had to trash patch 2626 and start over, so there will be two approaches to the solution(both working, but the first one lacked "cleanliness")
20110415 12:00:02< Ivanovic> i am also talking about windows in their hardware solution
20110415 12:00:18< Ivanovic> you know, when getting up and the windows make the room all too bright so it hurts your eyes
20110415 12:00:41< Ivanovic> with only insufficient solutions for adjusting gamma
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20110415 12:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 199 bugs, 312 feature requests, 22 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110415 14:01:20< automagic> Hi.
20110415 14:12:25< Qbunia> hi
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20110415 14:24:00< Qbunia> where in files is function: get_side()?
20110415 14:25:34< nephx> of what class?
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20110415 14:27:27< Qbunia> nephx: of readonly_context
20110415 14:27:59< nephx> ai/composite/contextx.*
20110415 14:28:47< Qbunia> thx
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20110415 15:27:05< Qbunia> Crab_: hi
20110415 15:36:42< Qbunia> a
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20110415 15:41:52< Crab_> hi, Qbunia
20110415 15:42:24< Qbunia> Crab_: iam trying to load lua_ai scenario but when game completes load it exists from game... 
20110415 15:42:53< Qbunia> using vc9 ai small arena works fine but lua ai not :|
20110415 15:42:59< Crab_> it crashes ?
20110415 15:43:21< Qbunia> i dunno i cannot see a console cuz its closing after load complete 
20110415 15:43:46< Qbunia> i cant use cmd to see whats going on cuz only running from vc9 works for me 
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20110415 15:44:15< Qbunia> is there any way to stop the game before exit?
20110415 15:44:28< Qbunia> or to write logs from console into file ?
20110415 15:45:04< Nephro> Qbunia, you'll have to comment out one section in the code, everyone has the same crash when they launch lua_ai arena on windows
20110415 15:45:33< Qbunia> which one ? 
20110415 15:47:49< Qbunia> Nephro: ?
20110415 15:48:40< Nephro> 2619-2622 in unit.cpp, but don't commit that, since it's not a fix, but a nasty workaround
20110415 15:50:46< Qbunia> Nephro: ah okey thx 
20110415 15:51:57< Qbunia> Crab_: mm do u know how i can get the unit location in lua ? 
20110415 15:52:15< Crab_> .x and .y
20110415 15:52:19< Qbunia> i know there are functions for it in lua like unit_get
20110415 15:52:35< Qbunia> i dont have to use this function only .x .y ?
20110415 15:52:55< Crab_> example:   my_leader = wesnoth.get_units({canrecruit = true, side = ai.side})[1]
20110415 15:53:09< Crab_> then, my_leader.x and my_leader.y will contain the coords
20110415 15:53:26< Qbunia> ahhh right :) 
20110415 15:53:57< Qbunia> Nephro: hmm still dosent seem to work after those changes
20110415 15:54:00< Nephro> Crab_, hi, I think I've found the problem with the crash. The ~lua_ai_context() is trying to do something with the state, and if we create the context with an empty constructor, the state will of course be uninitialised
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20110415 15:54:23< Nephro> Qbunia, how does the problem express itself?
20110415 15:54:36< Qbunia> same: load game after load exit 
20110415 15:54:46< Nephro> That's weird
20110415 15:54:54< Nephro> are you sure you commented out the right code?
20110415 15:55:01< boucman> automagic: around ?
20110415 15:55:04< Qbunia> 	/*if(!name.empty()) { 		trait_names_.push_back(name); 		trait_descriptions_.push_back(description); 	}*/
20110415 15:55:08< Qbunia> this 1 ?
20110415 15:55:24< Nephro> yeap, that's all I did to get it work
20110415 15:56:01< Qbunia> hmm
20110415 15:56:43< Qbunia> can i somehow write the output from console to a file ? 
20110415 15:56:51< Qbunia> something like wesnoth params > file.txt
20110415 15:56:52< Qbunia> ?
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20110415 15:58:57< Nephro> Crab_, that's why I decided to get rid of keeping the context in the lua_object, it's not used nowhere else anyway
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20110415 16:00:22< Crab_> Qbunia: it should be in stderr.txt on windows. you can do redirects on linux.
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20110415 16:16:13< AI0867> Qbunia: to redirect stderr, use 2>
20110415 16:16:33< Qbunia> ok thx iam waiting till my wesnoth will compile -.- 
20110415 16:16:38< Qbunia> i dunno why it goes so slow ;/
20110415 16:16:49< AI0867> there's a lot of it
20110415 16:17:00< Qbunia> on linux it goes faster
20110415 16:17:10< Qbunia> even game loading goes faster than on windows- .- 
20110415 16:33:10< boucman> automagic: please ping me when you're around...
20110415 16:39:13< timotei-temp> Qbunia: maybe because you compile for debug in windows while in linux you go for release 
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20110415 16:39:28< timotei> I don't have any problems with either linux or windows :)
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20110415 16:39:54< Qbunia> timotei: i use Debug fast on windows 
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20110415 16:40:19< Qbunia> timotei: i use Debug fast on windows tried realse but it brings me some errors ... 
20110415 16:40:48< Qbunia> timotei: ah it brings me the same errors as the debug one -.- 
20110415 16:41:05< timotei> trunk is working fine with VIsual studio last time I checked
20110415 16:41:08< timotei> s/is/was
20110415 16:41:16< timotei> I use VS2008
20110415 16:41:20< Qbunia> i also =O 
20110415 16:41:24< Qbunia> so i dunno whats this 
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20110415 16:44:37< CIA-82> boucman * r49215 /trunk/ (10 files in 3 dirs): apply patch 2633 by automagic : refactoring of the imagepath code
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20110415 16:47:36< Aethaeryn> wesbot: seen crab_
20110415 16:47:37< wesbot> Aethaeryn: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 47m 13s ago.  4m 25s ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
20110415 16:47:48< Aethaeryn> OH, COME ON.
20110415 16:47:52-!- Qbunia [540aafbf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.10.175.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110415 16:48:00< Aethaeryn> This is probably the third time I've joined right after Crab_ left.
20110415 16:48:43< Ivanovic> and why don't you just leave him a message and he reacts when coming back?
20110415 16:48:47< Ivanovic> can't be this hard, right?
20110415 16:48:48< Ivanovic> ;)
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20110415 16:57:24 * Nephro is an idiot
20110415 16:57:43< Nephro> boost::shared_ptr<lua_object<int>> l_obj = boost::shared_ptr<lua_object<int>>(new lua_object<int>());
20110415 16:57:43< Nephro> 		delete &(*l_obj);
20110415 16:58:00< Nephro> why in the world would I get access violations when trying to use l_obj?
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20110415 17:22:46< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: don't worry, I'll be on the entire day so I don't need to leave a message
20110415 17:26:54< timotei> Qbunia_: I just recompiled wesnoth on release. everything is fine
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20110415 17:27:06< timotei> I use the solution in /projectfiles/VC9/
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20110415 17:27:34< Qbunia_> timotei: so i dunno whats wrong with my windows cuz i have all libs and i get some assertion some shitty errors that say nothing to me 
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20110415 17:27:54< Qbunia_> timotei: i think i will be using linux ver = faster loading 
20110415 17:33:48< Nephro> timotei, go for wesnoth.exe -t lua_ai -d
20110415 17:34:06< Nephro> it'll crash 
20110415 17:39:17< timotei> Nephro: and on linux not?
20110415 17:39:25< timotei> Nephro: also, what code is runned with -t lua_ai?
20110415 17:39:34< timotei> Nephro: data/lua ?
20110415 17:39:41< timotei> sorry, data/test/ ?
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20110415 17:41:47< Nephro> timotei, data/ai/scenarios/lua arena something
20110415 17:41:54< Nephro> yes, it runs well on linux
20110415 17:42:24< timotei> ok, I'll try to look into it
20110415 17:43:24< Nephro> timotei, I can tell you the exact lines that cause the crash
20110415 17:43:48< Nephro> 2619-2622 in unit.cpp
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20110415 17:51:03< timotei> crimson_penguin: hi there!
20110415 17:52:30< crimson_penguin> hi timotei 
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20110415 17:53:06< timotei> crimson_penguin: I need to help someone to debug the wesnoth plugin on mac since it is not starting. do you know where is the temporary folder in mac osx?
20110415 17:53:29< crimson_penguin>  /tmp
20110415 17:55:42< timotei> crimson_penguin: also, do you have 5 minutes to try launching the eclipse plugin? Just to know if other mac users have the same problem?:P
20110415 17:56:01< crimson_penguin> well I don't have Eclipse
20110415 17:56:29< timotei> you need just java :)
20110415 17:56:36< timotei> https://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth-umcplugin/1.0.0/
20110415 17:58:26< timotei> I just need to know if it starts and shows successfully the window.:)
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20110415 18:02:45< CIA-82> timotei * r49216 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/Makefile: eclipse plugin: add the link to eclipse API too
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20110415 18:03:25< CIA-82> timotei * r49217 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/plugin.xml: 
20110415 18:03:25< CIA-82> eclipse plugin: Fix bug #17882. Now the WML files
20110415 18:03:25< CIA-82> Make the defalt encoding UTF-8 so it will support
20110415 18:03:25< CIA-82> BOM
20110415 18:03:34< CIA-82> timotei * r49218 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/changelog: eclipse plugin: update the changelog
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20110415 18:13:35< Nephro> Ivanovic, is there any date set for the mentor meeting
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20110415 18:13:36< Nephro> ?
20110415 18:14:00< Ivanovic> yeah, it is "soon"
20110415 18:14:29< Nephro> :) Not set yet?
20110415 18:14:50< Ivanovic> it is set, but we won't tell you (students) the date
20110415 18:15:13< Nephro> Can I at least ask whether I have tomorrow to polish everything off? :)
20110415 18:15:21< Ivanovic> reason: some might say "hey, i got some more time left" and later on "hey, i had the stuff done 1min before your meeting, why have you not considered it?!?"
20110415 18:15:48< Ivanovic> Nephro: depends on all mentors and when they do their review
20110415 18:17:37-!- GeorgeSebastian [~georgeSeb@unaffiliated/georgesebastian] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110415 18:17:54< timotei> Nephro: one thing I've learned: work as today is the last day ;)
20110415 18:18:30< timotei> Nephro: and also, you should work nevertheless the meeting was set or not
20110415 18:18:46< timotei> since the mentors might change their opinions after the meeting xD
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20110415 18:22:44< Nephro> dunno, I am working non-stop for the last few days :D Now the task seems complete, but for some reason it doesn't work
20110415 18:22:52< Nephro> I mean, it works, but it doesn't :D
20110415 18:23:37< Nephro> I see in the debugger the exact result I want, but when I exit a function an object member looses it's value and I am ready to cry when I see it over and over again
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20110415 18:50:22< boucman> I can't find the mail about the equivalent to execv under windows... anybody can give me the name of the function so I can google it , thx
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20110415 18:55:29< zaroth> boucman: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/886kc0as%28v=vs.80%29.aspx ?
20110415 18:55:35< AI0867> boucman: ugh, that'll probably be CreateProcess or CreateProcessEx
20110415 18:55:36< boucman> thx
20110415 18:56:10< AI0867> it does exist?
20110415 18:56:29< boucman> I don't know, I'll add the code and ask someone with windows to test :P
20110415 18:56:42< boucman> anybody with windows around ? :)
20110415 18:56:46< Espreon> Here.
20110415 18:56:57 * zaroth has a virtualbox with windows
20110415 18:57:08< Espreon> But, of course, don't expect me to compile.
20110415 18:57:15< Espreon> I'd need loonycyborg for that.
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20110415 18:57:33< boucman> oh :(
20110415 18:57:42< boucman> anybody able to compile windows around :P
20110415 18:58:11< Espreon> Persons able to compile on Windows... a rare species indeed.
20110415 18:58:14< Crendgrim> compiling Windows? Interesting idea.
20110415 18:58:27< loonycyborg> I can cross-compile.
20110415 18:59:08< loonycyborg> But I really don't like the idea of spawning subprocesses only because you can't change that openmp flag.
20110415 18:59:27-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Google Summer of Code: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 198 bugs, 312 feature requests, 21 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110415 18:59:33< AI0867> loonycyborg: not subprocess, re-execute
20110415 18:59:38< loonycyborg> There gotta be a correct way to do that.
20110415 19:00:20< AI0867> you can write a wrapper (same functionality in a script), or you can patch libgomp so it can be changed at runtime
20110415 19:00:32< boucman> loonycyborg: honestly, I've been looking around, but I didn't find anything in google
20110415 19:00:55< loonycyborg> I think there should be spec-compliant way to change that setting.
20110415 19:01:04< loonycyborg> If not then openmp sucks.
20110415 19:01:07< AI0867> loonycyborg: yes, changing an environment variable
20110415 19:01:13< AI0867> that's the *only* way
20110415 19:01:25< AI0867> and it has to be done before the program is loaded
20110415 19:02:12< loonycyborg> So the spec authors think that only people running the program would ever want to change it.
20110415 19:02:22< loonycyborg> Not the program itself.
20110415 19:02:56< timotei> boucman: I use real windows :P
20110415 19:03:24< boucman> loonycyborg: we have a very special use case, 
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20110415 19:03:39< boucman> the idea is that the thread are busy-wait for 100ms then go idle,
20110415 19:04:00< loonycyborg> Given that it doesn't busy-wait at the main menu there's probably a sane workaround.
20110415 19:04:08< boucman> unfortunately we do redraws at 50fps, so they don't have time to go to sleep
20110415 19:04:39< boucman> it doesn't busy-wait at main menu because the map drawing routines is not called for more than 100ms
20110415 19:04:51< loonycyborg> Maybe avoid calling openmp from map routines?
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20110415 19:05:03< boucman> huh ?
20110415 19:05:10< boucman> the whole point is to paralelize that area
20110415 19:05:53-!- GeorgeSebastian [~georgeSeb@unaffiliated/georgesebastian] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110415 19:06:48< loonycyborg> Maybe somehow separate the part you want to parallelize and have the map routines communicate with it without openmp.
20110415 19:07:06< loonycyborg> Maybe even use boost::thread instead :P
20110415 19:08:34< CIA-82> ai0867 * r49219 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth/nl.po): Fix some pango markup in dutch translation
20110415 19:10:05< boucman> loonycyborg: i'm totally lost here, the point of OMP is to paralelize the invalidation routines in the drawing code. This code needs to be run 50 times per second, so the threads won't go to rest
20110415 19:10:33< boucman> I don't understand how making the routines be somehow separated would solve that problem...
20110415 19:10:54< loonycyborg> What was that env variable again?
20110415 19:11:39< boucman> OMP_WAIT_POLICY=PASSIVE
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20110415 19:12:06< loonycyborg> My point is that if it doesn't consume all those cycles without openmp then there definitely should be a way to trick it.
20110415 19:13:16< loonycyborg> Maybe there some more direct directive that manages busy-waiting.
20110415 19:13:20< boucman> yes, that's what we're doing with execve, tricking it
20110415 19:13:25< boucman> there isn't
20110415 19:13:38< loonycyborg> Maybe even as a side effect.
20110415 19:13:52< boucman> busy-waiting is copied from the env variable at library loading time
20110415 19:14:01< boucman> be my guest and read the openmp spec...
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20110415 19:16:35< loonycyborg> For now I can confirm that OMP_WAIT_POLICY=PASSIVE prevents busy-waiting for me too.
20110415 19:17:57< boucman> timotei, loonycyborg: patch is at http://pastebin.com/mQ1hK2Rn if you could confirm that it compiles/works under win32 I would be gratefull
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20110415 19:22:46< timotei> boucman: worked :)
20110415 19:23:05< timotei> boucman: the cache is building, so I think it's ok
20110415 19:23:11< timotei> but. I don't have openmp enabled in VS
20110415 19:23:12< timotei> :P
20110415 19:23:16< timotei> lemme enable it
20110415 19:23:17< boucman> :P
20110415 19:23:21< boucman> yes, please
20110415 19:23:55< timotei> lol
20110415 19:24:07< timotei> VIsual studio has an option: optimize for windows 98 =))
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20110415 19:24:44< timotei> oh great
20110415 19:24:51< timotei> it started compiling from scratch
20110415 19:24:53< timotei> xD
20110415 19:25:09< timotei> boucman: I'll tell you if it works after it finishes compiling ;)
20110415 19:25:18< boucman> hehe, thx
20110415 19:30:58< loonycyborg> boucman: My cross-compiler doesn't seem to provide gomp.
20110415 19:31:16< boucman> loonycyborg: ok, too bad...
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20110415 19:36:23< Upthorn> Nephro: I was looking for you yesterday, yes
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20110415 19:37:18< Espreon> Ivanovic: I think gettext.wesnoth.org's svn process is frozen again.
20110415 19:38:43< Ivanovic> Espreon: ping Soliton asking him to run a cleanup
20110415 19:38:47< Ivanovic> busy myself atm
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20110415 19:40:30< Espreon> Soliton: Would you please fix gettext.wesnoth.org's svn process? I think it's frozen again.
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20110415 19:43:54< timotei21> whoops
20110415 19:43:58< timotei21> boucman: 1>d:\work\gw\src\game_display.cpp(921) : error C3016: 'i' : index variable in OpenMP 'for' statement must have signed integral type
20110415 19:44:18< boucman> that's interesting...
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20110415 19:44:32< boucman> it means nobody ever compiled under windows with OMP :P
20110415 19:44:40< timotei21> yes :)
20110415 19:44:57< timotei21> I wonder if the i should be signed or not
20110415 19:45:19< loonycyborg> boucman: OMP_DYNAMIC=true seems to fix spinning for me too.
20110415 19:45:32< boucman> as an env variable ?
20110415 19:45:33< Nephro> Upthorn, well, you found me
20110415 19:45:38< boucman> hmm
20110415 19:45:38< loonycyborg> boucman: Yes.
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20110415 19:46:36< Upthorn> Nephro: I was looking at your proposal, and it seemed to me that your proposal would still be strong if you focused entirely on the AI Brain
20110415 19:46:52< Nephro> Is that even allowed?
20110415 19:47:12< loonycyborg> boucman: But there's omp_set_dynamic for it in the api.
20110415 19:47:29< boucman> loonycyborg: yes, I'm reading about it as we speak...
20110415 19:48:06< Upthorn> Nephro: It is allowed to make proposals that aren't from the ideas page. To change your proposal from what you originally submitted, though, you would probably want to talk to the mentors and ask
20110415 19:49:16< boucman> loonycyborg: i'll explore some more...
20110415 19:49:17< Nephro> Hmm, yes, that would probably be a reason to have a talk with Crab :)
20110415 19:49:31< loonycyborg> boucman: Great! :)
20110415 19:51:18< Upthorn> If you would be happy working on that feature for the whole period, it could possibly allow a student with less direct AI experience to be accepted for the Lua function exposure and other minor miscellaneous AI improvements
20110415 19:51:59< Upthorn> I was actually hoping to catch you and crab_ at the same time to discuss that
20110415 19:54:20< loonycyborg> boucman: Weird. It actually only seems to reduce the number of spinning threads on subsequent runs.
20110415 19:54:32< Upthorn> Note that I do have selfish motives: I am one of the students with less AI experience who applied for the Lua AI improvment task
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20110415 19:55:57< loonycyborg> That is with OMP_DYNAMIC=true only one core is 100% busy according to gkrellm and without two cores are.
20110415 19:56:31< boucman> yes, that's what I wanted to test...
20110415 19:56:54< boucman> with OMP_DYNAMIC, the runtime might decide to kill/restart threads, which can sort of defy the point...
20110415 19:57:36< boucman> moreover we hve to be carefull when testing, since there is little perf gain for normal use case, since on a modern machine we already have a low cpu usage even at 50fps
20110415 19:57:47< boucman> it really makes a difference in the length of AI turns
20110415 19:58:10< fendrin> timotei21: hello
20110415 19:58:39< Nephro> Upthorn, ok, no problem, I'll talk to Crab, when I see him
20110415 19:59:28< timotei21> hi fendrin  :)
20110415 19:59:33< timotei21> fendrin: just about to leave.
20110415 19:59:53< fendrin> timotei21: Till when?
20110415 20:00:08< timotei21> fendrin: I don't know. I have to go shopping :|.
20110415 20:00:20< timotei21> It's the white night of shopping, or something like that
20110415 20:00:24-!- GeorgeSebastian [~georgeSeb@unaffiliated/georgesebastian] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110415 20:00:32< timotei21> I hope it won't take long cause I hate shopping 
20110415 20:00:38< timotei21> 2 hours or so hopefully
20110415 20:00:48< fendrin> timotei21: Okay, I am still around then.
20110415 20:00:53< timotei21> ok
20110415 20:00:56< timotei21> see you later then
20110415 20:00:57< timotei21> bye
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20110415 20:13:19< boucman> loonycyborg: suprisingly, omp_dynamic doesn't solve the problem for me...
20110415 20:13:49< loonycyborg> Does it at least reduce the number of spinning threads?
20110415 20:14:31< boucman> slightly, I have eight virtual cores, 6 of them seems to be at 100% instead of 8
20110415 20:14:50< boucman> whereas with wait_policy, none of them is really loaded at all
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20110415 20:15:19< loonycyborg> Interesting.
20110415 20:15:33< loonycyborg> I wonder what would happen with two cores..
20110415 20:15:58< CIA-82> eleazar * r49220 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): New igloo village by doofus.
20110415 20:18:53< loonycyborg> boucman: OMP_NUM_THREADS=2 OMP_DYNAMIC=true fix spinning altogether for me :P
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20110415 20:19:12< boucman> hehe
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20110415 20:25:16< fendrin> Can we give the person who wrote the emacs wesnoth mode svn commit rights?
20110415 20:25:35< fendrin> Or better give him the developer title.
20110415 20:28:02< boucman> anybody on windows to test http://pastebin.com/s3DAYAA2 plz ?
20110415 20:35:24< loonycyborg> boucman: You could also consider setting number of threads to 2 with omp_dynamic.
20110415 20:35:50< boucman> well, the point is to use as many cpus as available, so it sort of miss the point
20110415 20:35:57< loonycyborg> I bet you're getting dinimishing returns with larger amounts of cores.
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20110415 20:36:19< boucman> not really, the calculation for each tile is very independant
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20110415 20:46:09< mordante> servus
20110415 20:49:03< Espreon> mordante: Ic grete þe.
20110415 20:49:12< mordante> hi Espreon 
20110415 20:50:06< mordante> Nephro, your code looks odd boost::shared_ptr<lua_object<int>> l_obj = ... ; delete &(*l_obj);
20110415 20:51:01< mordante> Nephro, and I'm not surprised you get errors afterwards, in fact would be surprised if things went well afterwards
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20110415 20:59:17< loonycyborg> boucman: As another workaround you probably can forcefully set the number of threads to 1 once you're sure that all jobs are finished.
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20110415 21:00:32< boucman> loonycyborg: if I do that, I would kill the threads and recreate them every time I run the drawing code... that would likely be a huge perf hit
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20110415 21:01:50< loonycyborg> Probably less than busy-waiting causes.
20110415 21:02:03< loonycyborg> Maybe there are manual ways of yielding control?
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20110415 21:03:05< loonycyborg> Maybe you could (ab)use some synchronization primitives to that end.
20110415 21:03:37< boucman> why can't I just set the env var then exec... it works perfectly
20110415 21:07:07< loonycyborg> Because it's clearly not designed for being set by the program.
20110415 21:07:22< loonycyborg> Maybe there's a good reason for that..
20110415 21:10:47< mordante> Nephro, ping me when you're around, then I'll explain what goes wrong with your delete
20110415 21:12:34< boucman> loonycyborg: it happens that we are a border case with our 50 fps, normally the choice should always be active, since 100ms is no big deal... except we have small, very frequent jobs. 
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20110415 21:14:38< loonycyborg> Such border case is enough to allow it to be changeable on api level.
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20110415 21:15:07< loonycyborg> Unless there's another, righter way of doing it.
20110415 21:15:52< boucman> be my guest and look, but dynamic threading isn't... it basically makes us loose all our gain...
20110415 21:16:08< loonycyborg> So if you're right then proably a bug report against the spec is in order.
20110415 21:16:23< loonycyborg> *probably
20110415 21:16:46< loonycyborg> Also, implementations aren't required to honor that setting.
20110415 21:17:39< boucman> and theoretically, you can change the setting by changing the var in code, if you do it before openmp lib is loaded.... however It seems to happen before the call to main in gcc
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20110415 21:20:36< Ivanovic> automagic: you saw the questions boucman left for you in your application at google?
20110415 21:20:57< loonycyborg> The most obvious harm in setting it with exec is that the user couldn't override OMP_WAIT_POLICY for whatever reason without changing that code.
20110415 21:21:16< boucman> Ivanovic: I've been pinging automagic since 2pm, he seems to be afk
20110415 21:21:24< Ivanovic> boucman: ah, okay
20110415 21:21:49< loonycyborg> Oh. Wait. There's if (!getenv("OMP_WAIT_POLICY"))
20110415 21:22:01< Ivanovic> @all students interested in gsoc: please check your proposal page and try to tackle the comments left for you ASAP!
20110415 21:22:17< Ivanovic> and please don't forget to leave a note in case you updated something!
20110415 21:22:41< Ivanovic> yes, this is getting rather urgent in case you want to have the stuff included in our final ranking!
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20110415 21:25:11< boucman> loonycyborg: you mean in my pastebin ?
20110415 21:25:19< loonycyborg> Yes.
20110415 21:26:11< boucman> yes, it's to allow it to be overridden from commandline...
20110415 21:28:43< loonycyborg> Then only overhead of double startup remains :P
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20110415 21:32:42< Espreon> AI0867: You still know that type translations under "Resistances" in the help system are broken, right?
20110415 21:36:38< boucman> yes, but we don't pay it at every frame redraw :P
20110415 21:36:48< boucman> ok, afk now, will talk about that later...
20110415 21:38:26< mordante> timotei/timotei21, please add warning C4351 to your ignore list
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20110415 21:41:56< mordante> timotei/timotei21, please test whether the warning in playsingle_controller.cpp line 390 and 750 is still there
20110415 21:46:59< AI0867> Espreon: eh, the 
20110415 21:47:09< AI0867> unit description stuff?
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20110415 21:52:02< fendrin> Nephro: around?
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20110415 22:16:25< Upthorn> Crab_: are you available to answer a couple of questions?
20110415 22:16:53< Crab_> Upthorn: yes
20110415 22:17:25< Upthorn> I'm about to start looking for some AI functions to expose to Lua, and it might be faster if you could give me an example of where to look
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20110415 22:19:09< Crab_> Upthorn: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FormulaAI_Functions#.27suitable_keep.27_function is a good example (medium difficulty)
20110415 22:19:30< Crab_> Upthorn: 'village_value' aspect is a good example of 'very easy' difficulty
20110415 22:19:35< Upthorn> Crab_: I'm also a little bit unclear on where the current Lua AI interface is registerred, so if you could point me to a file, that would be very helpful
20110415 22:19:51< Crab_> src/ai/lua/core.cpp
20110415 22:20:13< Upthorn> ok
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20110415 22:20:28< Upthorn> for some reason I was looking at src/ai/composite/lua_engine.cpp
20110415 22:20:37< Upthorn> and it wasn't helping at all
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20110415 22:27:29< Upthorn> Crab_: thanks
20110415 22:27:50< Crab_> Upthorn: lua engine creates c++ wrappers for AI components
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20110415 22:32:09< Espreon> AI0867: Yeah.
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20110415 22:41:25< Upthorn> Crab_: for suitable_keep, by "expose to Lua" do you mean "allow Lua authors to redefine the function for the overall AI" or "allow Lua authors to call the c++ version with ai.suitable_keep()"?
20110415 22:41:53< Crab_> Upthorn: second
20110415 22:42:06< Crab_> Upthorn: it's is a very good question, actually.
20110415 22:42:21< Crab_> Upthorn: but note that 'everything that can be redefined' is an aspect.
20110415 22:42:32< Crab_> Upthorn: so, using Nephro's patch, we can allow for lua aspects
20110415 22:42:43< Upthorn> Ok
20110415 22:42:58< Upthorn> for the moment, I will just expose it, and not make it an aspect
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20110415 22:43:54< Crab_> ok
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20110415 22:47:09< AI0867> Espreon: and in what way are they broken?
20110415 22:47:30< Espreon> They don't work.
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20110415 22:47:57< Espreon> The types don't get translated there.
20110415 22:48:04< AI0867> =/
20110415 22:48:17< AI0867> argh, how do I change language from the commandline?
20110415 22:49:23< Espreon> I don't think there's an option for that.
20110415 22:50:02< AI0867> there should be an environment variable
20110415 22:50:16< AI0867> but LANGUAGE, LANG and LC_ALL don't do the trick for me
20110415 22:50:47< Espreon> Ditto.
20110415 22:50:51< AI0867> ah
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20110415 22:50:57< AI0867> LC_ALL=nl_NL.UTF-8
20110415 22:51:18< AI0867> it works if that's uncommented in /etc/locale.gen (and the locale generator has been run afterwards)
20110415 22:51:30< Espreon> Oh, well of course.
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20110415 22:57:27< AI0867> found the problem, fix incoming...
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20110415 23:05:59< anonymissimus> Crab_: since you introduced the [filter_side] tag now
20110415 23:06:29< anonymissimus> imo the target syntax should be then that [tag]side= has no meaning
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20110415 23:07:16< anonymissimus> [filter_side] should be required to affect any sides (like store_unit needs the filter tag to store any units)
20110415 23:07:25< Crab_> anonymissimus: why ? (1) why break old working code (2) 99% of uses can just have a single side=
20110415 23:07:42< anonymissimus> and the default would be to affect all sides then (if filter_side is empty)
20110415 23:07:46< Crab_> anonymissimus: it would be a good thing to talk about it again after the next release.
20110415 23:08:01< Crab_> anonymissimus: we might be able to change defaults, but it's hard to do quickly
20110415 23:08:07< anonymissimus> because its the way that SUFs and SLFs work...
20110415 23:08:33< Crab_> anonymissimus: and, I agree, making 'all sides by default' is a good thing, but, unfortunately, not WMLlintable at all due to side=1 old default
20110415 23:08:35< anonymissimus> it should have a long transition preriod however
20110415 23:08:44< Crab_> anonymissimus: so, it would require a loooong transition period.
20110415 23:09:40< anonymissimus> also: I have the problem now that some of the tags that should undergo this change are in lua
20110415 23:09:57< anonymissimus> thus, i need the get_sides_set function or an equivalent in lua
20110415 23:10:34< anonymissimus> so I either need to expose it (which seems kinda odd) or a redundant function
20110415 23:10:57< Crab_> I intend to fix lua side of things, too
20110415 23:11:08< anonymissimus> most notably the disallow_recruit and set_recruti tag
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20110415 23:12:46< anonymissimus> Crab_: what's your plan ?
20110415 23:13:44< AI0867> Espreon: is there a bug filed for this?
20110415 23:14:10< Crab_> anonymissimus: 'redundant function' route seems easier
20110415 23:14:31< Crab_> anonymissimus: but I will need to check if side_filter is correctly exposed to lua
20110415 23:14:51< anonymissimus> Crab_: the match_side function works well
20110415 23:15:03< anonymissimus> silene wrote it but didnt document
20110415 23:15:24< Crab_> anonymissimus: my fault, most likely
20110415 23:15:31< Crab_> anonymissimus: since I've written the side filter
20110415 23:15:40< anonymissimus> I guess you don't mind if I fix the lua side ? already working
20110415 23:15:47< Crab_> anonymissimus: np
20110415 23:16:29< Upthorn> Crab_: okay, I have compiled the change and would like to test it. How am I meant to load scenario-lua-ai ?
20110415 23:16:37< Crab_> ./wesnoth -t lua_ai -d
20110415 23:16:47< CIA-82> ai0867 * r49221 /trunk/src/help.cpp: Fix translation of attack types in unit description
20110415 23:16:52< Upthorn> what is the -d for?
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20110415 23:17:57< anonymissimus> ok, and for the deprecation I suggest behavior: none of the affected tags should have a direct side= key, but instead a [filter_side] tag; if we don't agree I make it the same as in game_events
20110415 23:19:36< AI0867> debug?
20110415 23:19:44< AI0867> Espreon: fixed
20110415 23:20:07< Crab_> Upthorn: for debug mode, and also to let the game use standard data dir
20110415 23:20:30< Upthorn> ah
20110415 23:20:50< Crab_> Upthorn: since, at least sometimes, wesnoth confuses the test scenario name with the 'last parameter' - data directory.
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20110415 23:21:00< Crab_> so, I tend to put something like '-d' as last
20110415 23:21:18< Upthorn> so it is good to have a parameter after, I understand
20110415 23:21:53< mordante> I'm off night
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20110415 23:22:23< Crab_> Upthorn: yes, otherwise it can do stuff like 'Overriding data directory with lua_ai', which is not good.
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20110415 23:22:46< anonymissimus> also, we shouldnt introduce that "all" value then, if we go for the target syntax I suggest
20110415 23:23:55< Crab_> anonymissimus: yes, an empty [filter_side][/filter_side] would mean 'all'
20110415 23:23:58< anonymissimus> can wllint do such change easily automatically, that is, moving the side= key with its values into a [filter_side] subtag ?
20110415 23:24:11< Crab_> anonymissimus: yes
20110415 23:24:17< anonymissimus> which needs to be created
20110415 23:24:23< Crab_> anonymissimus: but note that not all side= are to be replaced
20110415 23:24:42< Crab_> anonymissimus: since some are parts of SUFs, and some are already in [filter_side]
20110415 23:25:31< anonymissimus> but doesn't wmllint get a list of affected tags, so it would only do teh conversion for those ?
20110415 23:25:53< Crab_> anonymissimus: yes, it has to work that way
20110415 23:26:01< anonymissimus> the outer tag names are unique so should be doable
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20110415 23:31:56< Upthorn> when I attempt to load the lua_ai scenario, I keep getting a crash during "initializing teams" with "Assertion failed: valid(), file c:\wesnoth\wesnoth\src\shared_object.hpp, line 79"
20110415 23:32:10< Upthorn> updating from svn to see if this occurs in current revision
20110415 23:32:21< Crab_> Upthorn: if windows, check irclogs for today, there was an workaround suggested there
20110415 23:32:29< Upthorn> ah
20110415 23:32:33< Crab_> Upthorn: it would be a good thing to fix, of course. you're welcome to do it.
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20110415 23:33:40< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: in that thread, someone asks how you did replace core unit ids with custom ones in IftU (I'd like to know that too if you actually did): http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=33579&p=485610#p485610
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20110415 23:36:16< Upthorn> ok
20110415 23:36:46< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: hhmmmm
20110415 23:36:51 * shadowmaster scratches head
20110415 23:37:20< shadowmaster> I don't recall doing that.
20110415 23:37:32< anonymissimus> ok ;) :)
20110415 23:37:57< shadowmaster> I know there are units with the same names as mainline unit types, but not ids I think
20110415 23:39:06< shadowmaster> i.e. Ghoul_C, which advances from Walking Corpses and pretends to be a Ghoul. I hid the original Ghoul from the help system using units.hide_help
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20110415 23:47:09< fendrin> AI0867: ping
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 16 00:00:57 2011