--- Log opened Sun May 08 00:00:05 2011
20110508 00:05:26-!- MyNickWontFit is now known as PetePorty
20110508 00:08:47< CIA-82> espreon * r49413 /trunk/po/ (25 files in 25 dirs): Updated the Latin translation.
20110508 00:12:08< Ivanovic> Crab_: you saw my questions regarding the chatlog stuff and trunk?
20110508 00:12:20< Ivanovic> might make sense to have this included in 1.9.6 in trunk, too...
20110508 00:12:23< Espreon> Note to self: fix chatlog-related strings.
20110508 00:12:48< shadowmaster> Espreon: what? why?
20110508 00:12:55< Ivanovic> Espreon: i thought the new chatlog is/was not included in trunk yet
20110508 00:13:08< Ivanovic> and fixing them in 1.8: too late!
20110508 00:13:11< Espreon> Mere spelling changes.
20110508 00:13:20< Ivanovic> (unless you want me to delay 1.8.6)
20110508 00:13:33< Espreon> Mmmmm... nah, fuck 1.8.
20110508 00:13:40< Espreon> Note to self: remember that.
20110508 00:13:53< Ivanovic> and the chatlog changes are not in trunk (yet)
20110508 00:14:03< Espreon> True.
20110508 00:14:09< shadowmaster> Espreon: can you add "speak normally" to that list?
20110508 00:14:37< Espreon> shadowmaster: Hmmmm... nope.
20110508 00:14:41< Espreon> Go to Hell.
20110508 00:14:57< shadowmaster> I would rather have you do that. It's painful to read you in here. :/
20110508 00:15:35< Espreon> shadowmaster: Ask me when it's Thursday.
20110508 00:16:26< shadowmaster> But if I go to Hell, I won't be able to.
20110508 00:16:46< Crab_> Ivanovic: yes, I'll include it in trunk, too, but only after I'm done with 1.8 (too lazy to forward-port twice, I want to finalize in for 1.8.6 first and then forward-port just once)
20110508 00:16:56< Espreon> shadowmaster: Well, just stay for a little bit!
20110508 00:16:57< Ivanovic> Crab_: okay
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20110508 00:17:02< Crab_> Ivanovic: and no, haven't seen the questions
20110508 00:17:15< shadowmaster> Espreon: I guess I have done nothing that warrants such a visit.
20110508 00:17:19< Ivanovic> Crab_: it was mainly about the chat stuff and porting it to trunk
20110508 00:17:23< Crab_> ok
20110508 00:17:26< Ivanovic> left the messages all with your nick
20110508 00:17:28< Ivanovic> ;)
20110508 00:17:51< Ivanovic> and there was a question to you and deekay about a forum post with formula stuff behaving strangely
20110508 00:18:07< Ivanovic> division/multiplication not behaving as expected, stuff like this
20110508 00:18:11< Crab_> yes, seen that one
20110508 00:18:19< Ivanovic> okay
20110508 00:21:49< Crab_> a funny thing : just noticed that the map of LoW10 : Cliffs of Thoria  looks strangely similar to LoW9 : bounty hunters. one was copied from another and edited, but the shapes of some mountain ranges remain the same )
20110508 00:22:11< Ivanovic> hehehe
20110508 00:22:17< Ivanovic> something for fendrin to look at
20110508 00:23:06< Crab_> easy to see in MP game creation in trunk - both of the scenarios are available for MP, and if you change from one to another, you see all on the minimap )
20110508 00:23:32< Ivanovic> :)
20110508 00:23:46< Crab_> ( '4p MC - LoW, Hard Mode, chapter 3 ' and the next map, Cliffs of Thoria )
20110508 00:25:06< shadowmaster> boucman: in the release notes, when you say "MacO" regarding OpenMP, you mean "Mac OS X", right?
20110508 00:25:39< shadowmaster> and what's with you people misusing the [section] tags in that same file?
20110508 00:26:55< happygrue_> shadowmaster: that was me
20110508 00:27:05< happygrue_> I don't know what was up with the section tags and I forgot to ask
20110508 00:27:10< happygrue_> how should they be used?
20110508 00:27:54< CIA-82> shadowmaster * r49414 /trunk/RELEASE_NOTES: Correct useless [section] bbcode usage; s/MacO/Mac OS X/
20110508 00:27:58< shadowmaster> See r49414.
20110508 00:28:18< shadowmaster> (Alternatively, uh, check in the post editor the [section=] tooltip?)
20110508 00:31:19< happygrue_> yes, that makes much more sense.  The first one was broken and I was using it as an example
20110508 00:31:25< happygrue_> thank you for fixing all my mistakes!
20110508 00:32:11< boucman> shadowmaster: oops, yes
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20110508 00:38:06< anonymissimus> Crab_: I'll soon post a patch for what we discussed
20110508 00:38:12< Crab_> ok
20110508 00:38:22< anonymissimus> in some minutes
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20110508 00:59:15< anonymissimus> Crab_: https://gna.org/patch/?2637
20110508 01:00:33< Crab_> I'll take a quick look now and another look tomorrow.
20110508 01:00:45< Crab_> will you commit it ?
20110508 01:02:18< anonymissimus> I posted it as a patch...
20110508 01:02:36< anonymissimus> so I at least dont commit without discussion
20110508 01:03:02< anonymissimus> default behavior also isnt changed btw
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20110508 01:09:49< Crab_> I will comment tomorrow 
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20110508 01:20:25< CIA-82> espreon * r49415 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/ang@latin.po wesnoth-lib/ang@latin.po): Updated the Old English translation.
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20110508 01:28:40-!- happygrue_ is now known as happygrue
20110508 01:32:08-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.6 planned for sunday | 1.8.6 planned for 11th May; string freeze for branches/1.8 | 206 bugs, 316 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110508 01:33:11< CIA-82> espreon * r49416 /trunk/po/wesnoth-lib/ang@latin.po: Updated the Old English translation.
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20110508 01:53:59< CIA-82> espreon * r49417 /trunk/ (59 files in 3 dirs): Converted a couple of apostrophes.
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20110508 02:12:20< Espreon> esr; noy: I prefer "naphtha".
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20110508 05:26:47< fendrin> hi
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20110508 06:03:38< CIA-82> wintermute * r49418 /trunk/data/core/ (12 files in 2 dirs): fixed several minor Khalifate issues: added sound for Naffat attack, fixed several attack icons and unit description errors.
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20110508 06:45:13< shadowmaster> > Users browsing this forum: shadowmaster, Yandex [Bot] and 12 guests
20110508 06:45:32< shadowmaster> interesting
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20110508 08:57:26< zookeeper> is "naptha attack" really a good name for an attack? it's not like we use "sword attack" or "entangle attack" either.
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20110508 09:10:32< Ivanovic> moin
20110508 09:10:59< Ivanovic> zookeeper: it can make sense, since it is meant to be some kind of napalm like stuff
20110508 09:13:32< CIA-82> timotei * r49419 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/ (12 files in 3 dirs): release plugin version 1.0.3
20110508 09:14:42< Ivanovic> fendrin: you saw what crab_ wrote last evening/night about two LoW maps looking rather similar regarding their general layout stuff?
20110508 09:14:53< Ivanovic> same mountain formations, things like this
20110508 09:15:43< timotei> morning fendrin 
20110508 09:16:26< CIA-82> timotei * r49420 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/org.wesnoth.product: 
20110508 09:16:26< CIA-82> eclipse plugin: Add the required execution
20110508 09:16:26< CIA-82> environment: Java-SE1.6
20110508 09:16:28< timotei> Ivanovic: I was thinking adding something like a "submit bug" form (if that will be possible) in the umc plugin
20110508 09:16:37< CIA-82> timotei * r49421 /trunk/utils/java/ (10 files in 7 dirs): eclipse plugin: Release plugin version 1.0.3
20110508 09:16:49< CIA-82> timotei * r49422 /trunk/utils/java/org.wesnoth/org.wesnoth.product: eclipse plugin: Remove the included JRE bundle
20110508 09:16:56< timotei> Ivanovic: that is, submitting it (posting it on the portal). DO you think it's a good idea, or a bad one (it can be used for evil purposes - spam, maybe)?
20110508 09:17:00< Ivanovic> timotei: sounds like an interesting feature
20110508 09:17:12< Ivanovic> anything can be used for spam1
20110508 09:19:02< timotei> Ivanovic: ok
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20110508 12:31:32< Crab_> Ivanovic: note : I and anonymissimus want https://gna.org/patch/?2637 in before 1.9.6 , so, when (time) you want to release today ?
20110508 12:32:03< Ivanovic> i wanted to do it *really* soon
20110508 12:32:29< Crab_> ok, then I'll take care of the patch now
20110508 12:32:52< Crab_> ( will need some time to test, of course )
20110508 12:32:57< Ivanovic> sure
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20110508 13:32:09-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.6 planned for sunday | 1.8.6 planned for 11th May; string freeze for branches/1.8 | 206 bugs, 316 feature requests, 24 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110508 13:42:30< Crab_> zookeeper: around ?
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20110508 13:44:10< Crab_> zookeeper: in https://gna.org/patch/index.php#comment12 , Anonymissimus proposes ( '..The target syntax that we should IMHO go for by introducing the SSF at all should be ..') ) to deprecate inline 'side=' for specifying sides. I'd like to know your opinion on this.
20110508 13:44:47< CIA-82> crab * r49423 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): commit second part of patch #2637 by anonymissimus - unified style of side= and [filter_side] for lua wml tags]
20110508 13:44:48< CIA-82> crab * r49424 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp side_filter.cpp): remove support for side=all
20110508 13:45:13< Crab_> Anonymissimus: I've removed 'all', but I'm not going to change the deprecation messages because it needs more discussion and wmllint pass over mainline.
20110508 13:45:27< Crab_> Ivanovic: done
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20110508 13:50:19< zookeeper> Crab_, looking...
20110508 13:53:09< zookeeper> Crab_, well, i _really_ don't like the idea of deprecating side= in those contexts... that means an awful amount of conversion of existing code and it'd be somewhat annoying to have to use a 3-line subtag instead of a 1-line key in so many places.
20110508 13:54:04< zookeeper> wouldn't it be easy to just support both somehow? for example, if there's a side= key then that's used, but if there's a [filter_side] tag then that's used. no complicated interaction between the two needed.
20110508 13:54:19< Crab_> zookeeper: 'support both' is the current behavior
20110508 13:55:16< Crab_> zookeeper: see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/StandardSideFilter for the interaction details
20110508 13:56:09< zookeeper> ok, so unless there's a good reason not to, i'd suggest keeping that
20110508 13:56:15< Crab_> ok.
20110508 13:56:35< Crab_> also note that it's easy to extend [filter_side], but I don't know what's needed by wml authors in that context.
20110508 13:56:52< Crab_> i.e. its easy enough to extend it to allow selection of allies/enemies
20110508 13:58:57< Crab_> ok, thanks, I've left a log snippet at the patch page.
20110508 13:59:44< zookeeper> the amount of things that authors can't reasonably conveniently already do is starting to get really small (excluding the kind of drastic changes like multi-hex attacks), so i'm starting to lean much more towards keeping backwards compatibility rather than break it in favor of small improvements to consistency or simplicity
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20110508 14:00:21< Crab_> well, it's a dev release anyway for that tag, so little backward compatability is involved.
20110508 14:00:29< Crab_> it's new functionality, more-or-less
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20110508 14:02:35< zookeeper> well with backwards compatibility i meant compatibility between 1.8 and 1.9, since the vast majority of 1.9 add-ons are gonna be ports of 1.8 or 1.6 add-ons anyway.
20110508 14:03:01< Crab_> yes, I meant just that. filter_side is 1.9
20110508 14:03:17< zookeeper> wmllint can do the conversion but since not everyone does or can easily run wmllint, every new conversion step required makes porting add-ons more difficult.
20110508 14:03:52< zookeeper> yeah, but if we'd deprecate inline 'side=' then that'd break compatibility. deprecating that was what i was objecting to
20110508 14:04:07< Crab_> yes, I understand
20110508 14:06:24< Crab_> for khalifate, why L3  Shuja advances into L3 Khalid ? shouldn't it be L4 ?
20110508 14:06:47< happygrue> Crab_: probably right, let me check
20110508 14:07:20< happygrue> correct, should be L4
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20110508 14:08:59< CIA-82> crab * r49425 /trunk/data/core/units/khalifate/Khalid.cfg: in Khalifate, Khalid should be L4
20110508 14:09:16< happygrue> thanks
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20110508 14:09:41< Crab_> np. it's the first time where I've got a trunk with them, so I'm just taking a look at them )
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20110508 15:23:19< fendrin> Crab_: The Kalifate are nice, aren't they? Would love to see a campaign featuring them for the player.
20110508 15:23:46< Crab_> fendrin: graphics is nice, and, yes, I
20110508 15:23:55< fendrin> But I don't see their weakness.
20110508 15:23:55< Crab_> I'd love to see a campaign for them
20110508 15:24:03< Crab_> the only ugly thing is the unit naming
20110508 15:24:09< fendrin> :-)
20110508 15:24:30< fendrin> Did esr rename napalm?
20110508 15:24:32< Crab_> yes
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20110508 15:36:37< fendrin> But my dictionary knows nothing about naptha.
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20110508 15:40:21< fendrin> Greek fire was my first thought, but naptha seems to be related to that.
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20110508 15:49:54< loonycyborg> afaik naptha is old name of crude oil.
20110508 15:53:26< Ivanovic> AI0867, boucman, Crab_, esr, fendrin, Gambit, happygrue, loonycyborg, shadowmaster, Soliton, Sytyi, tschmitz, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.9.6?
20110508 15:53:32< Crab_> yes
20110508 15:53:40< loonycyborg> Yes.
20110508 15:53:44< fendrin> yes
20110508 15:55:41-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110508 15:55:57< mordante> servus
20110508 15:56:11< fendrin> hi mordante
20110508 15:56:16< mordante> hi fendrin 
20110508 15:56:16< fendrin> mordante: ready for 1.9.6?
20110508 15:56:33< mordante> fendrin, Ivanovic I've nothing left for 1.9.6
20110508 15:58:28< Sytyi> mordante: hi
20110508 15:58:34< mordante> hi Sytyi 
20110508 15:58:50< mordante> Soliton, thanks for fixing the 1.8 issues, your fix looks fine
20110508 15:59:49< mordante> Sytyi, shall we discuss your GSoC things now?
20110508 15:59:53< Soliton> no problem.
20110508 16:00:06< Sytyi> mordante: yes. 
20110508 16:01:24< mordante> Sytyi, I've been thinking about your task and where to best start it, but I first like to hear what you think
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20110508 16:02:56< Sytyi> mordante: I have a question about svn. Schould I make patches with annotations and everuthing like that. Also a question about what to do with unannotated sources. At first I schould skip unknown tags? but then I need to annotate everything.  
20110508 16:03:29< mordante> Sytyi, we like to do you some patches first before giving you svn access
20110508 16:03:49< mordante> Sytyi, we like new contributors do some patches before getting svn access
20110508 16:03:57< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49426 /trunk/po/ (249 files in 26 dirs): 
20110508 16:03:57< CIA-82> pot-update (preparing for 1.9.6)
20110508 16:03:57< CIA-82> regenerated doc files
20110508 16:04:03< Ivanovic> Sytyi: the main reason is to get you used to our coding style
20110508 16:05:01< Ivanovic> happygrue, Soliton: so what is the status of the bat?
20110508 16:05:03< Sytyi> mordante: Ivanovic : I see. Just wondered. 
20110508 16:05:12< Ivanovic> do you want to change it in 1.9.6?
20110508 16:05:18< Ivanovic> if yes, please do so *really* soon
20110508 16:05:31< mordante> Sytyi, so once you apply some good patches, we'll give you access
20110508 16:05:39< Ivanovic> Sytyi: so just code as you normally would and attach the output of "svn diff" to a patch report
20110508 16:07:04< mordante> Sytyi, creating comment for all WML won't be possible during one summer
20110508 16:07:22< mordante> Sytyi, the main goal is to get a good framework and a part commented
20110508 16:07:58< mordante> once that works properly it will be possible to expend on that work and slowly work at getting everything commented
20110508 16:08:28< mordante> that's why in our original project I wanted to focus on the GUI2 code
20110508 16:08:34< Sytyi> mordante: I think  to work  on proof on concept . and then maybe spend few time to change regexes to lexic analysator using  yacc or flex or smth else. 
20110508 16:08:51< Sytyi> mordante: I also think the main focus is GUI2 code. 
20110508 16:09:00< mordante> it's quite separated from the rest, already rather good documented, and I known it very well
20110508 16:09:33< mordante> Sytyi, and on which part of the proof of concept do you want to work first?
20110508 16:09:48< Soliton> Ivanovic: i guess we go with happygrue's suggestion. if he doesn't come back soon i can check that in.
20110508 16:10:02< mordante> also how much experience do you have with yacc/flex ?
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20110508 16:10:09< Sytyi> mordante: Schema Generator to have a schema
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20110508 16:10:18< Ivanovic> Soliton: okay
20110508 16:11:00< Sytyi> mordante: I worked on it, so I have a little list of what to do. Then I'll have a schema to validate with. 
20110508 16:11:34< Ivanovic> okay, all campaigns seem to start
20110508 16:12:04< Ivanovic> mordante: though there is some glitch with the dialogs and portrait placement: http://imagebin.org/152326
20110508 16:12:06< mordante> Sytyi, can you pastebin that list?
20110508 16:12:17< Ivanovic> as you see tallin can partly overlay the letters below in 1024x768
20110508 16:12:18< Sytyi> mordante: now the main goal is to have good annotation format. Second: working for multiple input files SG. 
20110508 16:12:22< Sytyi> mordante: one moment
20110508 16:12:48< happygrue> Soliton: I would be open to just giving the bats 50% on villages, that would be a small change to feral and we can deal with bigger changes later if you think it's too much
20110508 16:13:46< happygrue> my feedback has come mostly from asking people about if they are interested in playtesting 1.9.6 and they tend to ask "what about the bat?"  so doing something is good.  If more needs to be done we can do it later.   Though I think zookeerper's idea of +1 movement and remove quick trait is a good one
20110508 16:13:53< Soliton> happygrue: i'd like that better, i think.
20110508 16:13:57< happygrue> sure
20110508 16:14:15< happygrue> I don't want to change a lot since it is so rushed
20110508 16:14:46< happygrue> okay, so just change feral to 50% instead of 40% defense.  Soliton:  can you do it?  I'm busy for a bit still
20110508 16:15:07< Soliton> alright.
20110508 16:18:10< happygrue> Soliton: actually I am now free, if you haven't started already
20110508 16:18:22< happygrue> (kid stuff - very unpredictable)
20110508 16:18:32< Sytyi> mordante: http://pastebin.com/tFXshzzi
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20110508 16:19:01< mordante> Ivanovic, will look at it
20110508 16:19:42< Soliton> happygrue: already changed.
20110508 16:19:52< happygrue> okay, great
20110508 16:20:01< Ivanovic> mordante: no need to hurry, i don't think this one is really "blocking" for 1.9.6
20110508 16:20:25< mordante> ok Ivanovic 
20110508 16:20:41< happygrue> incidentally, there is some good feedback already about the Khalifate: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=488206#p488206
20110508 16:21:05< mordante> Sytyi, do you have experience with yacc/flex?
20110508 16:21:37< Sytyi> mordante: no for now, but we will study it in the end of May. 
20110508 16:21:47< mordante> ok
20110508 16:22:25< mordante> regarding the list, did you already think about "realize error generating part"  and how to do it?
20110508 16:22:52< Sytyi> mordante: it is not the main goal. Of course it will  increase speed, but now we need at last working version.
20110508 16:23:59< Sytyi> mordante: About error part. in SG it will be warnings and messages like - Tag * was not closed. No parent named *. etc
20110508 16:25:38< mordante> ok
20110508 16:25:59< mordante> do you already have an idea how you're going to implement it in Wesnoth?
20110508 16:26:07< Sytyi> mordante: it is easy to make, just some time , which I hadn't writing proof-on concept. A question of one night.
20110508 16:26:14< {V}> fendrin, loonycyborg, is it naptha or naphtha (note extra H )
20110508 16:26:43< CIA-82> timotei * r49427 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/doc_howto.html: fix the download links for windows and linux
20110508 16:26:54< Sytyi> mordante: I think as an util, calling in build system to regenerate schema
20110508 16:27:17< mordante> Sytyi, the validation needs to be inside Wesnoth so the engine can warn about invalid WML at parsing time
20110508 16:27:21< happygrue> {V}: I'm not sure, but it certainly seems like the latter
20110508 16:28:31< mordante> zaroth regarding the alignment of multilabel labels use (or add) a label from data/gui/default/widget/label_alignment.cfg
20110508 16:28:47< loonycyborg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naptha says that it was written as naphtha too.
20110508 16:29:01< mordante> zaroth for an example look in data/gui/default/window/title_screen.cfg which uses two of these labels
20110508 16:29:05< happygrue> I see
20110508 16:30:13< Sytyi> mordante: Owh, I didnt think about that. I thought about an util.  
20110508 16:31:45< mordante> Sytyi, no the most important part of the validation is to validate the input for the engine
20110508 16:32:33< Sytyi> mordante: I  see. The engine has a tokenizer,  so maybe between tokenizer and engine?   
20110508 16:32:34< mordante> Sytyi, at the moment the code is sprinked with WML_VALIDATE macros to do validation
20110508 16:33:02< mordante> Sytyi, with this project I can remove all of them, making the code a bit cleaner
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20110508 16:34:45< CIA-82> timotei * r49428 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/site.xml: update the site.xml file
20110508 16:36:49< mordante> Sytyi, yes, only need to look where exactly
20110508 16:37:30< mordante> Sytyi, what I was thinking about to start with is to define some basic data types hard coded eg, string, number, bool
20110508 16:37:53< mordante> Sytyi, then write a schema for some fields
20110508 16:38:07< mordante> Sytyi, and then see how we can the engine validate these data types
20110508 16:38:39< mordante> Sytyi, this could be written in a unittest
20110508 16:38:47< mordante> Sytyi, what do you think about that?
20110508 16:39:17< CIA-82> timotei * r49429 /website/eclipse.wesnoth.org/doc_howto.html: fix the extension for the windows link
20110508 16:39:24< Sytyi> mordante:  I just thought to take types and formula's validation from current sources
20110508 16:40:41< CIA-82> timotei * r49430 /trunk/utils/java/update_site/doc_howto.html: eclipse plugin: update the download page
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20110508 16:40:57< mordante> Sytyi, that's also possible but then you first need to define how to write a schema to generate data types
20110508 16:41:43< mordante> Sytyi, I'm only not sure whether datatypes like string and bool should be hardcoded known to the engine or also from a schema
20110508 16:41:55< mordante> (maybe a buildin scheme)
20110508 16:43:17< Sytyi> mordante: maybe a built-in scheme for types validation will  be more expandable&
20110508 16:43:52< mordante> ok
20110508 16:44:23< mordante> Sytyi, then I think the first step is to write this schema and define how to define new data types
20110508 16:46:09< mordante> Sytyi, do you have the link to the wiki page you recently started, seems I forgot to bookmark it :-(
20110508 16:46:46< Sytyi> mordante: write type definition rules. But first try to write some rules
20110508 16:46:47< Sytyi> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WML_Annotation_Format
20110508 16:48:09< mordante> Sytyi, exactly that what I meant 
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20110508 16:49:52< mordante> Sytyi, do you like to write the rules on the wiki or do you prefer another media?
20110508 16:50:00< Sytyi> mordante: I also decided to add one's more to tag definition : can tag be parent
20110508 16:50:09< Sytyi> mordante: what do you mean? 
20110508 16:50:19< Sytyi> mordante: under another media. ?
20110508 16:52:39< mordante> Sytyi, do you like to write the rules on the wiki or do you prefer another way eg per email, dev-ml postings etc
20110508 16:52:56< Sytyi> mordante: I prefer wiki. 
20110508 16:53:22< mordante> Sytyi, ok
20110508 16:56:47< loonycyborg> Sytyi: What exactly you are planning to use yacc/flex for?
20110508 16:57:16< Soliton> Ivanovic: looks like it's going to take a while before i can commit again, so if it takes too long here is the feral change: http://yourpaste.net/8256/
20110508 16:57:27< Sytyi> loonycyborg: for Schema generating tool only, to parse annotations from the sources
20110508 16:57:56< loonycyborg> Is that tool in pure C?
20110508 16:59:20< loonycyborg> You could also consider boost.spirit. That'll surely be interesting :)
20110508 16:59:53< Sytyi> loonycyborg: it is pure C; Thanks for your advice, i'm rather new in boost.
20110508 17:00:51< mordante> loonycyborg, just wonder how interesting... I heard you once about several MB compiler errors
20110508 17:01:31< loonycyborg> That was an overstatement. 0.5 Mb max :P
20110508 17:02:35 * mordante is so happy now ;-)
20110508 17:03:03< Ivanovic> Soliton: okay, will apply it
20110508 17:03:28< Soliton> Ivanovic: actually wait a sec i think i can commit now.
20110508 17:03:38< Ivanovic> okay, then do so
20110508 17:04:16< CIA-82> soliton * r49431 /trunk/ (changelog data/core/macros/traits.cfg players_changelog): Changed the 'feral' trait to give 50% instead of 40% defense on villages.
20110508 17:04:33< mordante> Sytyi, do you want discuss more at the moment?
20110508 17:06:10< Sytyi> mordante: Yes, of course, I just don't know what to ask now .:[
20110508 17:07:10< mordante> Sytyi, no worry we can discuss more when you have more questions
20110508 17:07:37< mordante> Sytyi, just wanted discuss how to get started
20110508 17:08:45< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49432 /trunk/po/ (81 files in 26 dirs): (final) pot-update preparing for 1.9.6
20110508 17:09:37< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49433 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): bump version to 1.9.6
20110508 17:09:59-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.9.6, using r49433 | 1.8.6 planned for 11th May; string freeze for branches/1.8 | 206 bugs, 316 feature requests, 24 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110508 17:13:54< CIA-82> esr * r49434 /trunk/data/ (5 files in 3 dirs): wmllint, spelling, and punctuation cleanup.
20110508 17:14:33< Ivanovic> esr: it is likely that this commit was too late for 1.9.6
20110508 17:15:00< esr> Ivanovic: It's just cleanup.
20110508 17:15:07< Ivanovic> okay
20110508 17:18:57< Sytyi> mordante: Just want to know your point: I want add "isparent" to tag info
20110508 17:19:20< Ivanovic> Soliton: it would be great if you could start a separate mp server for 1.9.6 for the transition time
20110508 17:19:33< Ivanovic> Soliton: atm 1.9.6 joins the 1.9.5 server though there are balancing changes
20110508 17:20:56< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49435 /tags/1.9.6/: tagged 1.9.6, using r49433
20110508 17:21:32< zookeeper> so spelling fixes came after the pot-update?
20110508 17:21:47< zookeeper> oh, right, you tagged using the previous rev. nevermind.
20110508 17:22:21< mordante> Sytyi, I'm not entirely sure whether it's needed or not yet, can you give more information why you think it's needed?
20110508 17:22:24< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49436 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): post release version bump to 1.9.6
20110508 17:22:24< esr> zookeeper: Version-control systens rule OK :-)
20110508 17:23:47< Sytyi> mordante: to allow tags from other wiki block "connect" to this tag, and to avoid case of two tags with same name , and anme is used in @begin{parent}{name'"*"}
20110508 17:25:53< Soliton> Ivanovic: i don't have the time to maintain things like that. if someone else wants to do it i'll help them set it up but that's it. or just announce quickly and there's no need to. ;-)
20110508 17:26:22< Ivanovic> Soliton: usually announcing depends on when windows and osx build are ready
20110508 17:26:42< Ivanovic> eg the pandora build will be uploaded in about 2 hours (first one hours for the tarball, afterwards an hour for the pandora package)
20110508 17:26:43< Soliton> sure, i know.
20110508 17:27:01< mordante> Sytyi, ok not entirely sure whether we have that issue, however it seems a valid point
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20110508 17:31:17< Sytyi> mordante: I am reading faq, slowly, but reading. It is really very useful. I wish I was taught by that faq. 
20110508 17:31:59< mordante> Sytyi, good to hear :-)
20110508 17:39:30< CIA-82> esr * r49437 /trunk/data/core/ (macros/special-notes.cfg units/khalifate/Hakim.cfg): Write missing SPECIAL_NOTES_EXTRA_HEAL.
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20110508 18:01:05< anonymissimus> zookeeper: "that means an awful amount of conversion of existing code and it'd be somewhat annoying to have to use a 3-line subtag instead of a 1-line key in so many places": I imagine practically all of the conversion to be done by wmllint
20110508 18:02:08< anonymissimus> we could also convert the inline side= tag to an inline ssf; but the problem here is that the conversion from the default side=1 cant be wmllinted without the extra filter_side tag
20110508 18:02:30< anonymissimus> I think
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20110508 18:04:46< anonymissimus> zookeeper: "wouldn't it be easy to just support both somehow? for example, if there's a side= key then that's used, but if there's a [filter_side] tag then that's used. no complicated interaction between the two needed" I agree; the current interaction is complicated
20110508 18:05:12< anonymissimus> it should be so that either one of teh two gets priority (and a warnign is omitted) or it's an error
20110508 18:06:41< anonymissimus> and I still don't understand why Crab decided for that deprecation behavior; nothing is yet documented or in the changelog so I guess I can adjust it still
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20110508 18:07:37< anonymissimus> so ok, we can keep the inline side= tag, bui if both are present I suggest going for the ssf's side= key gets priority, like you suggested, and a warning is omitted
20110508 18:07:57< fendrin> happygrue: Hi, nice work on the Kalifate. I have some questions regarding them, do you have some time?
20110508 18:08:15< anonymissimus> I'd volunteer to adept teh get_sides_set function
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20110508 18:09:03< anonymissimus> also need to do some adjustments, I didnt consider the patch ready for commit
20110508 18:09:17< Cookiee> fendrin: are those questions about balance? 
20110508 18:09:36< fendrin> Yes, at least some of them.
20110508 18:10:58< Cookiee> Very debatable topic 
20110508 18:11:16-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.6, announcing soon | 1.8.6 planned for 11th May; string freeze for branches/1.8 | 206 bugs, 316 feature requests, 24 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110508 18:11:20< fendrin> Cookiee: Do you mind telling me your opinion?
20110508 18:11:43< Ivanovic> crimson_penguin, Rhonda: new dev release available!
20110508 18:12:07< fendrin> I would like to know which is the weakness of the faction.
20110508 18:12:07< crimson_penguin> hmm, I'm gonna have to ask my mom if I can install the old XCode on her computer, so I can build it
20110508 18:12:13< crimson_penguin> otherwise that other guy can probably do it
20110508 18:12:32< Cookiee> Well I can not say it is good nor bad. Having not experienced it myself. But from glance I can say they look like a less resilient version of loys
20110508 18:12:38< Cookiee> fendrin: use mages, magic 
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20110508 18:13:39< Cookiee> some units go for impact 
20110508 18:14:47< fendrin> I have some concerns about the falcon.
20110508 18:15:28< Cookiee> which include?
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20110508 18:16:10< fendrin> lvl0 units are often used for mass spamming the enemy. In case of the falcon the idea that the battlefield is full of falcons which are surely rare just doesn't seem to fit.
20110508 18:16:30< Soliton> balance is best discussed in #wesnoth-mp.
20110508 18:17:52< fendrin> It's not so much about balance, I am not qualified to step in the discussion. 
20110508 18:18:25< Soliton> crimson_penguin: is there a reason there are so many empty dirs under MacOSX? http://yourpaste.net/8257/
20110508 18:18:32< Cookiee> Actually, everyone is qualified to at least tell their opinion :L
20110508 18:19:18< crimson_penguin> Soliton: I guess they're there by convention, but don't happen to have anything in them
20110508 18:19:21< Cookiee> Whether the opinion is taken seriously or not, is another question :P
20110508 18:19:24< fendrin> I don't worry about the balance. I think the mp devs will get make it working if it isn't already in a short time.
20110508 18:19:53< happygrue> fendrin: I don't have time now, sorry.  There is a nice feedback thread going at:   http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=488206#p488206
20110508 18:20:01< Cookiee> I think its more in the hands of the players :L
20110508 18:20:05< fendrin> happygrue: Thanks.
20110508 18:20:12< Soliton> crimson_penguin: does that mean they have to be there or can they be omitted?
20110508 18:20:23< happygrue> or if you leave questions in #wesnoth-mp I can speak to them.  The short answer is that they have balance problems right now, and we need testing to figure out what to do about it
20110508 18:20:44< Cookiee> happygrue: you're a genius, no one wouldve figured that out
20110508 18:21:08< crimson_penguin> Soliton: I think they could be excluded... those are from the dependencies package though, right?
20110508 18:23:36< Cookiee> fendrin: if you want to see a game using the fraction... Kolbur and Rigor are playing one right now on 1.8 server :L
20110508 18:23:43< Soliton> crimson_penguin: i have no idea what they're from. i just know there are empty dirs in svn.
20110508 18:24:02< crimson_penguin> Soliton: that stuff shouldn't be in svn at all :-/
20110508 18:24:10< fendrin> Cookiee: 
20110508 18:24:12< fendrin> thanks
20110508 18:24:18< crimson_penguin> Soliton: I'll have a look
20110508 18:24:41< Soliton> crimson_penguin: thanks.
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20110508 18:29:55< crimson_penguin> Soliton: I don't see lib as being under version control
20110508 18:30:20< crimson_penguin> or the first file
20110508 18:31:03< Cookiee> fendrin: More resilient version* *sigh getting confused due to time* sorry >.<
20110508 18:32:11< Soliton> crimson_penguin: err, hmm. i guess git-svn got confused by something. nevermind, sorry.
20110508 18:32:27< crimson_penguin> no problem
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20110508 18:47:42< Alarantalara> boucman: Since it says to ask you, I'm not too clear on what's supposed to happen regarding OpenMP support. Is this a check to see if it's available or should it be turned on?
20110508 18:48:22< Ivanovic> zaroth: what is the status of this patch? https://gna.org/patch/index.php?2618
20110508 18:48:35< Ivanovic> already part of 1.9.6 or still "work in progress"?
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20110508 19:09:00< loonycyborg> Alarantalara: It's a build option, disabled by default.
20110508 19:13:04< Alarantalara> loonycyborg: I understand that part. I'm just uncertain as to whether I should turn it on. The package email said to "please also check if/how the
20110508 19:13:04< Alarantalara> openmp support does work for your packages"
20110508 19:13:39< Alarantalara> It's easy enough to enable, but I'm not sure if that's the point
20110508 19:13:45< loonycyborg> Enable it, if it works use it.
20110508 19:14:08< Alarantalara> Okay, I'll do that. Thanks
20110508 19:14:09< Ivanovic> Alarantalara: one of the main questions is: how does it work regarding cpu load?
20110508 19:14:23< Ivanovic> some users reported extremely high cpu load values
20110508 19:14:53< loonycyborg> Yes. Be sure to check that it doesn't spin consuming 100% of most of cpu cores.
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20110508 19:32:08-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.6, announcing soon | 1.8.6 planned for 11th May; string freeze for branches/1.8 | 206 bugs, 316 feature requests, 23 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110508 20:03:54< boucman> Alarantalara: it's in, but was only tested with linux, I want to know if it compiles correctly for other platform, if it works, and if it doesn't clutter the CPU
20110508 20:07:27< loonycyborg> I've built the release with openmp and it doesn't clutter CPU.
20110508 20:08:08< loonycyborg> On windows that is.
20110508 20:10:18< boucman> loonycyborg: good :)
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20110508 20:16:26< Crab_> boucman: is it a known issue ? http://oi54.tinypic.com/20s60dw.jpg
20110508 20:18:00< boucman> I guess you mean the half disapearing dragon ?
20110508 20:18:04< Crab_> yes
20110508 20:18:16< boucman> it's acting "as specified"
20110508 20:18:18< Crab_> in a swamp, that is )
20110508 20:18:45< boucman> the dragon is in a tile that asks to have 50% submerge... so the dragon is 50% submerge
20110508 20:18:58< Crab_> but he's got major out-of-hex parts :)
20110508 20:19:01< boucman> i'm not sure what would be the proper way to fix thi...
20110508 20:19:43< boucman> it's still a single hex unit, we have to have a central tile decide for everything...
20110508 20:20:53< Crab_> but, for example, Drake Glider would not submerge, it'll fly
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20110508 20:27:43< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: 1.9.6 windows installer is uploaded.
20110508 20:27:55< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: cool!
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20110508 20:28:49< Ivanovic> the pandora binary is online, too
20110508 20:29:04< Ivanovic> so basically just waiting for the osx one (and the 24h since tagging to run out)
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20110508 20:33:11< Alarantalara> A rpoblem with osx and openmp: Apple didn't make a version of the 10.4 SDK to support GCC 4.2 (which is required for openmp). So to use it, support will be dropped for 10.4.
20110508 20:36:36< Soliton> probably not too useful yet to trade backwards compatibility for openmp support.
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20110508 20:38:05< Soliton> (though a test to see how well it runs would still be good of course.)
20110508 20:38:59< boucman> Alarantalara: i'm not very aware of the OSX world, is it a serious issue (like dropping windows XP would be) or just for a few die hard (like dropping win2k would be)
20110508 20:40:04< ancestral> 10.4 was released April 2005; 10.5 was released October 2007
20110508 20:40:06< boucman> Crab_: we could make a special rule stating that the dragon should fly on any submerge hex with non-submerged neighbours, but we can't do a per-hex submerge (the dragon is drawn in one SDL call)
20110508 20:40:20< boucman> afk phone
20110508 20:41:13< boucman> back, (that was a short one)
20110508 20:41:28< boucman> ancestral: and how commonly used is it ?
20110508 20:41:44< boucman> ancestral, Alarantalara: let me put it differently...
20110508 20:42:20< boucman> can we drop 10.4, or is it a serious issue ? could we do two builds, at least for one release to see if it works, i'm not a macOS person, i can't tell...
20110508 20:43:03< ancestral> Well, there are still many machines with 10.4 on them out there. Mac users upgrade more frequently for sure, and 10.7 will come out later this year, but most PowerPC machines run 10.4
20110508 20:43:34< Alarantalara> I'm not sure. I still have a system that runs 10.4 since there was very little incentive to upgrade the os. But I don't know how common that is. Dropping 10.5 would be much more serious, since we'd lose support for all PPC processors
20110508 20:43:36< ancestral> (some PPC Macs can run 10.5)
20110508 20:46:23< ancestral> I like to think Wesnoth typically draws downloads from users of older computers and casual players… but that's just my suspicion. Do you guys have any data on what percent of Mac users are running a given OS?
20110508 20:46:27< boucman> Crab_: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=488217#p488217
20110508 20:46:53< ancestral> (that is, of Wesnoth Mac players)
20110508 20:46:56< Crab_> boucman: thanks
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20110508 20:48:26< boucman> Alarantalara: can you do a macos build with gcc 4.2, test and report ?
20110508 20:48:34< Alarantalara> sure
20110508 20:48:44< boucman> if it works, then no need to change the releases at this point, it 's only testing
20110508 20:48:46< ancestral> boucman: I'd definitely say most commercial software released today for Mac OS X requires at least 10.5. Hands down.
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20110508 21:16:19< Alarantalara> This could take awhile. i forgot to set the openmp flag when I switched to the 10.5 SDK
20110508 21:18:38< boucman> no rush...
20110508 21:19:52< CIA-82> caslav_ilic * r49438 /branches/1.8/ (46 files in 12 dirs): Translation update for Serbian (for incoming 1.8.6 release; intentionally not sending to trunk).
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20110508 21:20:24< CIA-82> caslav_ilic * r49439 /branches/1.8/ (17 files in 9 dirs): Localized images update for Serbian.
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20110508 21:20:43< CIA-82> caslav_ilic * r49440 /trunk/ (19 files in 9 dirs): Localized images update for Serbian.
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20110508 21:23:32< anonymissimus> Crab_: I didnt consider that patch ready for commit :|
20110508 21:23:52< Crab_> anonymissimus: why ?
20110508 21:24:09< anonymissimus> well, some minor things, and i did test only slightly
20110508 21:24:23< Crab_> anonymissimus: I tested it, too, it worked for me
20110508 21:24:44< Crab_> anonymissimus: I only had to modify the 'gold' tag
20110508 21:25:38< anonymissimus> yes, seen it
20110508 21:26:55< anonymissimus> I still dont understand why you made the deprecation behavior: "empty side= and no [filter_side] is deprecated"
20110508 21:27:48< Crab_> currently, default is side=1, and to phase it out, we need to deprecate the situation where side is not explicitly given.
20110508 21:28:18< Crab_> and, as of now, there are two ways to give the side explicitly
20110508 21:28:20< Crab_> 1) side = inlined
20110508 21:28:25< Crab_> 2) [filter_side]
20110508 21:28:30< anonymissimus> and do you agree that in the case that [tag]side= and [tag][filter_side]side= are specified we dont make complicated mix, but instead give priority to [tag][filter_side]side= and omit a warning, like zookeeper did suggest ?
20110508 21:28:53< Soliton> s/omit/emit/
20110508 21:30:02< anonymissimus> (that is, omitting a wrnign is my suggestion)
20110508 21:30:03< Crab_> currently, when both side= and filter_side are specified, the behavior is not complicated - both are used.
20110508 21:30:20< anonymissimus> yes, but that iscomplicated, usign both
20110508 21:31:08< Crab_> what do you suggest ? if [filter_side] is present, ignore inlined side= and emit a warning ?  (note that this is not related to the 'empty side= and no [filter_side] is deprecated' warning)
20110508 21:32:00< anonymissimus> yes, sounds good
20110508 21:32:05< Crab_> ok, good for me
20110508 21:32:10< anonymissimus> will also simplify your side filter
20110508 21:32:20< anonymissimus> I'd volunteer to do it
20110508 21:32:23< Crab_> no, it's will make it slightly more complicated )
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20110508 21:33:24< Crab_> since for code, it's just "fail if A, fail if B, fail if C' (in side_filter::match_internal )
20110508 21:34:15< Crab_> and it becomes (if config is empty and side_string is not empty, emit a warning) instead of one of the fails.
20110508 21:35:00< anonymissimus> it can be done in get_sides I think
20110508 21:35:07< anonymissimus> get_sides_set
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20110508 21:35:26< Crab_> no, it's better to do it in side_filter
20110508 21:35:30< Alarantalara> boucman: It runs fine with openmp. cpu use is about the same and the only noticeable difference is that one extra thread is created
20110508 21:35:58< boucman> Alarantalara: ok, good
20110508 21:35:58< Crab_> since side_filter knows about side_string atm, so it has the authority to deal with it
20110508 21:36:25< anonymissimus> and should ot know about it ? I dont think so
20110508 21:36:27< boucman> that's more or less expected, OMP only does a real difference when wesnoth would reach high cpu usage (complicated AI turns)
20110508 21:36:47< anonymissimus> it should just get what is inside [filter_side]
20110508 21:36:47< boucman> the bug is that with some openmp implementation it hogs uselessly all CPU
20110508 21:37:32< Crab_> anonymissimus: yes, it was not able to do it previously, but it can live without knowing it now
20110508 21:37:50< Crab_> anonymissimus: so, if you check for that outside it, in get_sides_set, rework the side_filter to let it only deal with a [tag]
20110508 21:38:02< Alarantalara> I did try a scenario with every hex of terrain animated
20110508 21:38:14< Crab_> anonymissimus: that way, in get_sides_set, you'd have to create a dummy [tag] for it to work.
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20110508 21:49:29< mordante> I'm off night
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20110508 21:51:38< CIA-82> caslav_ilic * r49441 /branches/resources/image-localization/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Updates of source localized images for Serbian.
20110508 21:57:24< Alarantalara> boucman: I'm currently uploading the openmp version. Do you want me to upload one that still supports 10.4 as well?
20110508 21:58:05< boucman> that's your call, i'm not capable of saying if dropping 10.4 makes sense...
20110508 22:02:41< Alarantalara> I'm very uncertain. The reason I ended up doing this instead of crimson_penguin in the first place is because he didn't want to have to drop compatibility for everything but 10.6 on intel.
20110508 22:03:17< crimson_penguin> it's more ppc that I'd rather not drop yet
20110508 22:03:55< Alarantalara> ah, that's still there with this: only the G3 processor is left out
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20110508 22:04:16< boucman> Alarantalara: well, afa i am concerned, you've tested it on mac os, and the answer is disabled on 10.4, works on 10.5
20110508 22:04:44< boucman> so i'm good, now if you want to upload two binaries, or only one is not really for me to decide
20110508 22:05:07< boucman> at this point i think omp isn't worth it yet, it will be once Crab_ uses it more in AI
20110508 22:05:32< boucman> we are doing preparation work so we don't have nasty suprises once it's more used
20110508 22:09:29< Alarantalara> I think I'll upload both then and see if someone can provide a warning that support for 10.4 will be dropped in the near future. It seems unfair to me to do it without warning, but I'd rather not upload two copies for a long time.
20110508 22:12:13< boucman> ok
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20110508 22:15:58< crimson_penguin> wait, why do you need 2 copies?
20110508 22:17:33< Alarantalara> One for 10.4 (ppc and intel) without openmp, one for 10.5+ (ppc and intel) with openmp
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20110508 22:44:45< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49442 /branches/1.8/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-lib/cs.po): updated Czech translation
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20110508 23:03:16< CIA-82> ivanovic * r49443 /trunk/ (9 files in 8 dirs): updated Galician translation
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20110508 23:37:08< CIA-82> anonymissimus * r49444 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: minor improvements to wesnoth.get_sides; comments
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20110508 23:45:43< CIA-82> anonymissimus * r49445 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp game_events.hpp): Made it so that if the affected wml action tags are passed an inline side= attribute and a [filter_side] tag, a warning is emitted and the inline side= information is ignored.
20110508 23:47:56< CIA-82> anonymissimus * r49446 /trunk/src/ (side_filter.cpp side_filter.hpp): removed a now unused constructor
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--- Log closed Mon May 09 00:00:15 2011