--- Log opened Tue Jul 05 00:00:58 2011
20110705 00:02:39< anonymissimus> hm well I can't complain about my tdm-gcc built (except for the occasional pthread related crashes xD)
20110705 00:03:03-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110705 00:03:19< anonymissimus> it's not more choppy than always
20110705 00:03:58-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 00:10:14-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 00:10:50-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 00:17:55-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g224176044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 00:20:35< anonymissimus> Espreon: you may want to run umcpropfix on TEG, I've added some images
20110705 00:20:56< anonymissimus> that is pls do it
20110705 00:21:56< Espreon> Yup.
20110705 00:27:38-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 00:28:52-!- vjoe [~vjoe@a94-132-117-16.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20110705 00:32:19< CIA-85> mordante * r50136 /trunk/ (10 files in 3 dirs): 
20110705 00:32:19< CIA-85> Add initial version of the schema validator.
20110705 00:32:19< CIA-85> Committing Sytyi's patch.
20110705 00:32:50< mordante> I'm off night
20110705 00:33:16-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110705 00:38:16< CIA-85> espreon * r50137 /trunk/src/tools/schema/ (7 files): Added keywords lines.
20110705 00:39:35-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 00:39:59-!- tschmitz [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20110705 00:43:03< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: you were 5 commits away from becoming famous
20110705 00:43:33< shadowmaster> The winner (and their project) of the 10,000 Wesnoth-UMC-Dev will be featured in an announcement.
20110705 00:43:55< shadowmaster> *Wesnoth-UMC-Dev commit
20110705 00:45:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 00:46:48< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: well too bad; I only would have needed to wait 5 mins :P
20110705 00:49:06-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 00:49:29-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 00:49:45-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-095-208-215-104.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]]
20110705 00:49:48-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@h47-207.pool95-168.dyn.tolna.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 00:59:49< CIA-85> loonycyborg * r50138 /trunk/src/SConscript: Added target for schema generator to scons.
20110705 01:14:04-!- Deusite [~thomas@cpc1-newt26-0-0-cust245.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 01:15:56-!- enchilad1 [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 01:18:24-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 01:24:09-!- enchilad1 is now known as enchilado
20110705 01:25:34-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 01:25:50< A_Guy> Hey.
20110705 01:26:25< Espreon> 'Ello.
20110705 01:26:47< A_Guy> How are you doing?
20110705 01:27:01< Espreon> I am fine.
20110705 01:27:03< Espreon> How are you?
20110705 01:27:33-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-182-55-50.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze]
20110705 01:35:55-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 01:36:34< Deusite> As per Espreon's insistence, I will now moan:
20110705 01:36:36< Deusite> Is there any way to identify what gender noun is? In wesnoth-units.po, some units are feminine by default, but Wesnoth assumes that they are masculine. E.g. a Shadow is feminine (Umbra), but is described as 'concursatorius' (skirmishing) instead of 'concursatoria'. 
20110705 01:37:02-!- Bob_The_Mighty [~chatzilla@cpc5-brig16-2-0-cust70.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]]
20110705 01:37:07-!- Shakey [HydraIRC@c-24-1-105-76.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC]
20110705 01:37:48-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 01:39:17< Espreon> This is in fact serious business, people.
20110705 01:40:31-!- tschmitz [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 01:40:33< Deusite> It means that some things are impossible to translate into something with proper grammar.
20110705 01:43:58-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g224176044.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 01:44:27-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]]
20110705 01:44:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20110705 01:51:51-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 01:52:14< Deusite> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2926&hilit=gender should make this clear...
20110705 01:53:16< shadowmaster> what post in particular?
20110705 01:53:23< Deusite> The first.
20110705 01:53:39< shadowmaster> okay, that is not really relevant nowadays. traits have gender variants
20110705 01:54:30< shadowmaster> ah, okay, I see
20110705 01:55:04< shadowmaster> file a FR
20110705 01:55:22< Deusite> How should I phrase it?
20110705 01:56:09< Deusite> I have no idea as to what the solution might be.
20110705 01:56:24< shadowmaster> well, then bring it up in the forums
20110705 01:57:55-!- Ardonik [~ardonik@adsl-75-28-102-149.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Cats, devils, 'n porcupines]
20110705 01:58:25-!- Ardonik [~ardonik@adsl-75-28-102-149.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 01:59:16-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@nusnet-28-123.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 02:05:50-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@nusnet-28-123.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110705 02:08:25< Deusite> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34319
20110705 02:09:05< shadowmaster> should be in Ideas
20110705 02:09:12< shadowmaster> want me to move it?
20110705 02:09:34< Deusite> Go ahead if it gets more attention.
20110705 02:09:57< shadowmaster> I guess I'd never been bothered myself by "Sombra" being a "no muerto"
20110705 02:10:33-!- Ardonik [~ardonik@adsl-75-28-102-149.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 02:10:33-!- Ardonik [~ardonik@unaffiliated/ardonik] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 02:10:38< shadowmaster> and after 1.0.2 I kinda stoppped using translations
20110705 02:10:39< Deusite> O ye of little grammar. :D
20110705 02:11:42< Espreon> Ah, the gender problem.
20110705 02:11:47< Espreon> That'll be pain in the ass to solve.
20110705 02:11:48-!- Ardonik [~ardonik@unaffiliated/ardonik] has quit [Quit: Cats, devils, 'n porcupines]
20110705 02:12:09< shadowmaster> yes, because that would add an extra layer of complexity to gender attributes
20110705 02:12:20-!- Ardonik [~ardonik@unaffiliated/ardonik] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 02:12:37< Espreon> Some languages don't go by masculine, feminine, and neuter. Some language categorize nouns by cooky things such as "dangerous things". I'm not kidding.
20110705 02:12:55< shadowmaster> it may be possible to add a .language_gender attribute that influences the UI choices without messing up with stats further
20110705 02:13:17< shadowmaster> .language_name already exists and it's internally used by the unit class serialization code IIRC
20110705 02:13:52< Espreon> And some have more than three...
20110705 02:14:21< shadowmaster> the real problem is making the .language_gender attribute *value* translatable
20110705 02:14:47< shadowmaster> (it gets worse if you take gettext's rules into account)
20110705 02:16:16< shadowmaster> maybe rather than being translatable it could use language-gender pairs and translators would be given the responsibility to request pairs to be assigned as necessary
20110705 02:16:32-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 02:16:59< A_Guy> Ugh... I wish I had zookeeper's number on speed dial.
20110705 02:23:56< Gambit> 555-444-3212
20110705 02:24:16< Gambit> Oh wait. I missed a great joke opportunity.
20110705 02:24:57< Gambit> 1-800-328-7448
20110705 02:25:04< Gambit> Yes. That's zookeeper's number for sure ;D
20110705 02:27:41< A_Guy> Well...
20110705 02:28:03< A_Guy> I have no idea why my use of the macro doesn't work.
20110705 02:30:38< Espreon> ... What macro?
20110705 02:31:02< A_Guy> FORCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT
20110705 02:31:10< A_Guy> It appears the second unit filter isn't working properly.
20110705 02:31:29< A_Guy> I used [filter_wml][resistances]{WEAPON_TYPE}=0[/resistances][/filter_wml]
20110705 02:31:48< A_Guy> To check if the unit is immune to the weapon in question.
20110705 02:32:01< A_Guy> But it seems to think every unit fulfills that criteria.
20110705 02:46:24-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@c-76-105-37-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110705 02:48:02< Espreon> A_Guy: How are you using it? Show me.
20110705 02:48:59< A_Guy> Let me link you.
20110705 02:49:10< A_Guy> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&p=495634#p495634
20110705 02:50:04-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@61.94.195.160] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 02:51:20< Espreon> Meh, I don't think I can help you with this one.
20110705 02:51:22< Espreon> Sorry.
20110705 02:54:23-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 02:54:26< A_Guy> Now I wait for zookeeper.
20110705 02:54:26-!- Johannes13__ [~Johannes@p5DF7582F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 02:58:40-!- monochromatic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-71-107.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 02:58:53-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]]
20110705 02:59:57-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110705 03:07:28-!- Upth [~ogmar@c-76-105-37-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:07:28-!- Upth is now known as Upthorn
20110705 03:12:03-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@c-76-105-37-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110705 03:15:55-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:15:57< A_Guy> Figured out my mistake.
20110705 03:19:32-!- tschmitz [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 03:24:28-!- Upth [~ogmar@c-76-105-37-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:24:28-!- Upth is now known as Upthorn
20110705 03:28:02-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]]
20110705 03:29:10-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@137.132.42.213] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:31:09-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@137.132.42.213] has quit [Client Quit]
20110705 03:33:36-!- Johannes13__ is now known as Johannes13
20110705 03:33:39-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF7582F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 03:33:39-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:36:50-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:39:34-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 03:51:31-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 03:52:45-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110705 04:12:00-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 04:30:07-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 04:33:49-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@spnp55072.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 04:36:50-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@spnp55072.spnp.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Client Quit]
20110705 04:59:41-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 05:00:12-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2ef29.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 05:00:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 05:02:08-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 05:03:31< enchilado> Animations should stop when a game ends.
20110705 05:03:45< enchilado> It looks all canvas-y, like a painting or tapestry or something, but things are moving... it's weird.
20110705 05:04:06-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110705 05:04:08-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20110705 05:04:10-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 05:05:47-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 05:11:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 05:16:22-!- beetlenaut [~dan@174.32.63.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 05:23:43-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 05:29:49-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 05:49:58-!- gabba [~gabba@wesnoth/developer/gabba] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20110705 06:09:42-!- muchachito [~muchachit@193.Red-83-33-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 06:09:49< muchachito> hello
20110705 06:10:07< enchilado> Hi
20110705 06:10:27< muchachito> can I use Wesnoth code to implement a game with square tiles instead of hexes?
20110705 06:12:12< shadowmaster> possibly, but I imagine that would involve heavy modifications to the pathfinder
20110705 06:13:04< muchachito> k... Still considering both options (hexes and squares). any games appart from Wesnoth that have been developed with the engine? Or any square tiles turn based strategy game engine?
20110705 06:13:42< shadowmaster> I believe freeciv uses cuadrilateral tiles, not sure.
20110705 06:13:44< Gambit> I kind of consider every add-on to be a game built on the Wesnoth engine.
20110705 06:14:01< shadowmaster> EIther way Wesnoth has not been forked as far as I know.
20110705 06:14:08< Gambit> Wesnoth really is an engine that just happens to come with a ton of games built in.
20110705 06:14:15< Gambit> (commonly referred to as "campaigns")
20110705 06:14:39< shadowmaster> Not really; half of what makes a campaign a game comes with Wesnoth itself.
20110705 06:14:57< Gambit> You can do practically anything in the two scripting languages.
20110705 06:15:00< shadowmaster> (hint: data/hardwired/, data/core/, and so on)
20110705 06:15:33< Gambit> Well you know my thoughts on that.
20110705 06:15:56< Gambit> I love fendrin's idea of letting people swap everything out.
20110705 06:16:25< shadowmaster> Of course it's reasonable but that's not a primary goal for us because the benefits are not concrete.
20110705 06:16:31< Gambit> And data/core could be considered sample content.
20110705 06:16:42< muchachito> OK, thanks for the info, guys. I was also having a look at freeciv and freecol
20110705 06:17:12< muchachito> what are your ideas on hexes vs. squares?
20110705 06:17:19< muchachito> in general
20110705 06:17:21< shadowmaster> Gambit: what I mean by this is that so far, total conversion projects have failed to stay alive
20110705 06:17:28< shadowmaster> cf Spacenoth
20110705 06:17:33< Gambit> Yeah. They go about it all wrong.
20110705 06:17:54< Gambit> Wesnoth has the best mod infrastructure I have ever seen.
20110705 06:18:01< Gambit> They should just go along with that.
20110705 06:18:03< shadowmaster> without a total conversion to serve as a test case for us, there's not much we can do to motivate ourselves to improve Wesnoth's modding capabilities
20110705 06:18:08< enchilado> "Spacenoth"?
20110705 06:18:18< Gambit> It's kind of a chicken and egg deal.
20110705 06:18:21< shadowmaster> a dead space-based total conversion for Wesnoth
20110705 06:18:27< shadowmaster> *space-ambiented
20110705 06:18:44< muchachito> "dead space" based? cool xP
20110705 06:18:53< Gambit> ohman.
20110705 06:18:58< shadowmaster> lol
20110705 06:18:58< muchachito> hehe
20110705 06:19:04< enchilado> :S
20110705 06:19:15< Gambit> We already have a campaign where monsters annoying pop out of totally unexpected places.
20110705 06:19:21< Gambit> (Many?)
20110705 06:19:22< muchachito> hehe
20110705 06:19:31< shadowmaster> most
20110705 06:19:42< Gambit> Good night everyone :P
20110705 06:19:47< muchachito> night
20110705 06:19:56-!- Gambit [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 06:20:13< muchachito> So what about hexes and squares?
20110705 06:20:14< shadowmaster> anyway, I don't know about squares. I think with hexes the idea of moving in more than 4 directions is more or less intuitive
20110705 06:20:43< shadowmaster> IIRC freeciv's cuadrilateral-based ruleset doesn't allow diagonal moves
20110705 06:21:00< muchachito> shite
20110705 06:21:27< muchachito> a bit absurd, btw
20110705 06:21:46< shadowmaster> with hexes it seems more intuitive to move in diagonal directions at the expense of one axis
20110705 06:22:05< shadowmaster> (in Wesnoth, that would be the case for the horizontal axis; you cannot move east to west)
20110705 06:22:40< shadowmaster> now, not having played many games myself I may be suffering from a severe case of developer bias
20110705 06:22:50< muchachito> hehehe
20110705 06:23:14< muchachito> it's ok, I'll try to gather more views
20110705 06:23:22< muchachito> thank you.
20110705 06:23:36< shadowmaster> I remember that one of our forum moderators once proposed octagonal tiles
20110705 06:23:44< shadowmaster> *former forum moderators
20110705 06:23:50< muchachito> hhehe
20110705 06:24:02< muchachito> hexes are the best polygon for diving the space...
20110705 06:24:10< muchachito> as far as I'm concerned
20110705 06:25:57< muchachito> I was even considering using a 3D engine for a Real Time Grand Strategy game, with adjustable speed...
20110705 06:26:03< muchachito> but maybe it's too ambitious
20110705 06:26:43< muchachito> and iregular terrain sections instead of tiled squares
20110705 06:26:53< muchachito> (ala Crusader Kings)
20110705 06:31:47< shadowmaster> esr: if you have time you could check http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=495655#p495655 and reply there
20110705 06:32:58< enchilado> octagonal tiles don't tesselate...
20110705 06:34:24< shadowmaster> I'm no mathematician, but surely there's more polygons that can do that besides 3/4/6-sided ones
20110705 06:34:39< shadowmaster> *regular polygons
20110705 06:35:12< enchilado> Triangles, if you flip some of them upside down.
20110705 06:35:29< enchilado> Oh, you said three. Never mind. ._.
20110705 06:35:47< muchachito> hexes are the best, that's why bees use them
20110705 06:35:59< muchachito> and hexes are also in chemistry
20110705 06:36:06< muchachito> in molecular structures and so
20110705 06:36:24< muchachito> cristals, snow flakes...
20110705 06:36:26< enchilado> Is there a Chemistry addon?
20110705 06:36:31< muchachito> hehe
20110705 06:37:15< enchilado> What about this? http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/tess/bigpent.gif
20110705 06:38:55< muchachito> looks like Klee turtles
20110705 06:39:13< muchachito> every figure is rotated
20110705 06:39:27< muchachito> with hexes, every figure keeps the same position
20110705 06:39:28< esr> shadowmaster: Done.
20110705 06:39:45< enchilado> muchachito: I know. That's why they're the best.
20110705 06:39:53< muchachito> :D
20110705 06:40:04< muchachito> "the best" regarding space division
20110705 06:40:10< muchachito> there are other things to consider
20110705 06:40:22< muchachito> related to game rules
20110705 06:40:24< muchachito> mainly
20110705 06:40:48< muchachito> and also the visual aspect
20110705 06:40:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 06:41:04< shadowmaster> esr: thanks
20110705 06:41:12< muchachito> (which board has a better 'eye-candy'?)
20110705 06:47:00< muchachito> So using the tile engine would I be able to easily strip out the other GUI elements and build my own original game atop?
20110705 06:47:10< shadowmaster> muchachito: I've been reminded of this game (in chinese?) that uses the Wesnoth engine: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33421
20110705 06:47:25< muchachito> lets have a look
20110705 06:47:29< shadowmaster> and yes, I imagine you could do that
20110705 06:51:41< shadowmaster> supposedly the display code should be polished enough at this point that things like removing the UI or even changing to a different backend (say, OpenGL) should be feasible
20110705 06:52:20< shadowmaster> (one of our developers started the second GL port a year ago but he disappeared; the first was done circa 1.2)
20110705 07:00:24< muchachito> the game looks pretty cool, and changes many things from original
20110705 07:02:34-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-153.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 07:23:36-!- mono_laptop [~monochrom@pool-74-109-58-145.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 07:44:05-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 07:50:38-!- Deusite [~thomas@cpc1-newt26-0-0-cust245.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Deusite]
20110705 07:53:27-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 07:53:27-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 07:53:27-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:00:16-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 08:01:12-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:04:46-!- muchachito [~muchachit@193.Red-83-33-169.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
20110705 08:16:45-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:16:59-!- mono_laptop [~monochrom@pool-74-109-58-145.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
20110705 08:20:23-!- loonybot [~loonybot@46.138.86.250] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:20:23-!- loonybot [~loonybot@46.138.86.250] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 08:20:23-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:36:05< timotei> Hm... why are those "keyword lines" /* $Id$ */
20110705 08:36:06< timotei>  for?
20110705 08:37:34< shadowmaster> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.advanced.props.special.keywords.html
20110705 08:37:48< timotei> thaanks shadowm_laptop 
20110705 08:38:07-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:45:05-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds]
20110705 08:46:38-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:54:42-!- sheraff [~Tri@c-98-196-106-93.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:56:15-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:56:15-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 08:56:15-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:59:26-!- cjhopman [~chris@c-71-202-164-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:59:26-!- hopman- [~chris@c-71-202-164-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20110705 08:59:26-!- cjhopman [~chris@c-71-202-164-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 08:59:26-!- cjhopman [~chris@wesnoth/developer/cjhopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 08:59:35-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20110705 09:04:49-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 09:05:10-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 09:05:14-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:05:39-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.190.70] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:05:39-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.190.70] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 09:05:39-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:21:09-!- lamefun [~dingbing@unaffiliated/lamefun] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:37:58-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 09:38:47-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:40:28-!- tschmitz_ [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20110705 09:49:52-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-153.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze]
20110705 09:52:01-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 09:52:21-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:52:21-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 09:52:21-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:53:00-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.190.70] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:53:00-!- timotei [~timotei@193.34.190.70] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 09:53:00-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 09:54:11-!- lamefun [~dingbing@unaffiliated/lamefun] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 09:54:19-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 09:56:56-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20110705 10:00:12-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 10:01:44-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:01:44-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 10:01:44-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:02:07-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20110705 10:09:44-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2ef29.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 10:09:44-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:12:31< Ivanovic> moin
20110705 10:13:33< Ivanovic> Espreon: the german translation maintainer is chrber
20110705 10:13:49< Ivanovic> cf http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothTranslations
20110705 10:14:50< Espreon> Ivanovic: Thank you... now the typographical police can act.™ Tee hee.
20110705 10:15:56-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:16:31-!- lamefun [~dingbing@unaffiliated/lamefun] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:21:32< timotei> git branch is nice
20110705 10:22:17-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@zla02.domus.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 10:22:58< Espreon> Yup.
20110705 10:23:04-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 10:24:36-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:24:39-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 10:24:39-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:35:02< Espreon> Hmmm, I wonder why there are two "Play" and "Stop" hotkeys.
20110705 10:38:28-!- fabi_ [~fabi@88-134-20-121-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 10:44:39-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@bb121-6-148-98.singnet.com.sg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:52:43< CIA-85> timotei * r50139 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/utils/ResourceUtils.java: eclipse plugin: Remove 2 obsolete methods
20110705 10:52:54< CIA-85> timotei * r50140 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth.wml.ui/src/org/wesnoth/ui/contentassist/WMLProposalProvider.java: 
20110705 10:52:54< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Create the project cache
20110705 10:52:54< CIA-85> only later, when we know for sure we do have a file
20110705 10:52:54< CIA-85> attached to current editor
20110705 10:53:04< CIA-85> timotei * r50141 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth.wml/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20110705 10:53:04< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Add the multiple-wesnoth installation
20110705 10:53:04< CIA-85> code support for the WMLValidator aswell
20110705 10:53:13< CIA-85> timotei * r50142 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/schema/SchemaParser.java: 
20110705 10:53:13< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Automatically parse the schema
20110705 10:53:13< CIA-85> when creating it
20110705 10:53:16-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 10:53:22< CIA-85> timotei * r50143 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/plugin.xml: eclipse plugin: Fix the 'Builders' menu
20110705 10:53:32< CIA-85> timotei * r50144 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/ (3 files in 2 dirs): eclipse plugin: Add a first draft of the new Dependency Tree
20110705 10:53:42< CIA-85> timotei * r50145 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20110705 10:53:42< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Move the tree creation logic in a
20110705 10:53:42< CIA-85> new dedicated class
20110705 10:53:51< CIA-85> timotei * r50146 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth.build/workflow.txt: eclipse plugin: add a small 'plugin building' workflow
20110705 10:54:02< CIA-85> timotei * r50147 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/ (plugin.xml src/org/wesnoth/handlers/TestHandler.java): 
20110705 10:54:02< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Test with getting the WML Grammar parsed
20110705 10:54:02< CIA-85> out of an IFile instance
20110705 10:54:12< CIA-85> timotei * r50148 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/ (5 files in 5 dirs): 
20110705 10:54:12< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Refactor the IFile to WMLRoot
20110705 10:54:12< CIA-85> conversion to its own method
20110705 10:54:33< CIA-85> timotei * r50149 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/ (145 files in 38 dirs): 
20110705 10:54:33< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Migrate the org.wesnoth.wml project
20110705 10:54:33< CIA-85> to org.wesnoth.
20110705 10:54:50< CIA-85> timotei * r50150 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth.ui/ (94 files in 30 dirs): 
20110705 10:54:50< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Migrate 'org.wesnoth.wml.ui' project
20110705 10:54:50< CIA-85> to 'org.wesnoth.ui'
20110705 10:55:04< CIA-85> timotei * r50151 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/ (66 files in 26 dirs): 
20110705 10:55:04< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Remove old files and update
20110705 10:55:04< CIA-85> the feature and product to include the correct
20110705 10:55:04< CIA-85> plugins
20110705 10:55:20< CIA-85> timotei * r50152 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
20110705 10:55:20< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: update the files to reflect the new
20110705 10:55:20< CIA-85> project organization
20110705 10:55:30< CIA-85> timotei * r50153 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/manual/dev_manual.tex: 
20110705 10:55:30< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Update the dev manual to include
20110705 10:55:30< CIA-85> information regarding generating the WML Grammar
20110705 10:58:10< CIA-85> timotei * r50154 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/ (org.wesnoth.wml/ org.wesnoth.wml.ui/): eclipse plugin: remove empty directories
20110705 11:10:59-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-179-130.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 11:24:27-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 11:27:26-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 11:29:26-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 11:29:26-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 11:29:26-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 11:35:56< zookeeper> esr, something to keep an eye on: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=34285
20110705 11:36:06-!- fstltna [~fstltna@74.63.219.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 11:36:16< zookeeper> if someone comes up with a detailed proposal which makes sense, then i'm all for it.
20110705 11:37:17< esr> zookeeper: Thanks for pointing that out.  
20110705 11:38:36< esr> I agree qith your final comment.
20110705 11:39:55< zookeeper> a wilder idea would be that ravanal stole the sceptre in the backstory
20110705 11:40:26< esr> Yeah, but themn why doesn't *he* use it?
20110705 11:40:37< zookeeper> well, maybe he does
20110705 11:40:45-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 11:40:53< esr> Hm.
20110705 11:41:23< zookeeper> and presumably he'd have it with him when attacking weldyn, so when he got killed the sceptre was returned
20110705 11:41:59< esr> Doesn't feel right somehow.  But I guess thus means we beed a theory ogf his motives.  Why does he want to take Weldyn, anyway?
20110705 11:42:29< zookeeper> err... because he's evil, i guess? ;P
20110705 11:42:47< zookeeper> EI was never known for having a stellar story
20110705 11:42:58-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@d184063.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 11:43:56< shadowmaster> Clearly taking Weldyn would hurt the morale of the Wesnothians and they'd immediately surrender to him. He'd get a whole kingdom of his own to rule this way.
20110705 11:43:58< esr> I'll have to think about that.  I think he should have a motivation at least as developed as Malin Keshar's.
20110705 11:45:28< esr> shadowmaster: That's better than what we have.
20110705 11:45:43< zookeeper> i'd be content with him just wanting his own big undead kingdom to rule and develop his magics and all that usual stuff, if it was at least mentioned somehow
20110705 11:46:52< zookeeper> i'm not too keen on the surrender thing, since for all we see in the campaign, he's just trying to wipe out everyone
20110705 11:46:58< shadowmaster> esr: eh? I was being sarcastic.
20110705 11:47:11< zookeeper> oh...
20110705 11:47:20 * shadowmaster forgot the smileys.
20110705 11:47:35< esr> Might be simplest to just give the King the scepter.  Given the size of that last scenario one sure kill per turn probably wouldn't be a balance issue.
20110705 11:48:48< zookeeper> actually the king isn't present in the very final battle
20110705 11:49:34< esr> Any reason for him not to be?
20110705 11:49:55< shadowmaster> aren't there two different final battles depending on whether the player chooses to accept Mal Ravanal's challenge, and one takes place in Weldyn (prving HAPMA forever as the map scale seems to change) and the other at an undisclosed location? I thought the first one still had K II around.
20110705 11:50:24< shadowmaster> or perhaps it's because I've not played that since 2006.
20110705 11:51:22< zookeeper> he's in neither final scenario (17a and 17b)
20110705 11:51:43< zookeeper> he's only in 14, 15 (story-only) and 16
20110705 11:52:41< esr> OK, here's a proposal.  King is in the ending that involves a siege of Weldyn.  Has the Sceptre, but if he gets killed you lose.
20110705 11:52:53< shadowmaster> eh, I'm looking at the maps for 14, 16 and 17b and I think HAPMA and map scale changes no longer explain the differences between Weldyn's appearances for me anymore.
20110705 11:53:05< shadowmaster> particularly between 14 and 17b.
20110705 11:53:39< esr> shadowmaster: I agree that's an issue but let's solve ine contnuity problem at a time.
20110705 11:53:49< esr> s/ine/one/
20110705 11:54:01< shadowmaster> right.
20110705 11:54:08< zookeeper> esr, doesn't sound too bad, but let's not rush that either; maybe we get a better idea of how to integrate the scepter.
20110705 11:54:41< zookeeper> the benefit of not having him in the final battle is that then you don't have to babysit him but can rush the liches more freely
20110705 11:55:03< esr> What could bew better?  It's still the Ryal House's ultimare weapon but you take a bg risk if you use it?
20110705 11:55:12< esr> s/?/./
20110705 11:56:44< zookeeper> anything which integrates it into the actual story in ways beyond it just being a fireball-thrower they use to blast enemies with? :P
20110705 11:58:03-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 11:58:19< esr> zookeeper: OK, I'm open to something like that that.  But I think having it be the royal cannon is good enough here.
20110705 11:59:14< shadowmaster> it's either a stealth metaphor for the nuclear bomb, or its power can be subverted by powerful sorcerers (possibly those who have read Crelanu's book, depending on whether it should still exist by the point EI takes place), and thus it's too risky to employ it to fight such forces
20110705 12:00:34< esr> If it could be subverted hat directly by a powerful lich it would have failed against Jevyan.
20110705 12:00:49< zookeeper> they never used it against jevyan
20110705 12:00:54< zookeeper> and jevyan never had it
20110705 12:01:58-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
20110705 12:02:11< zookeeper> it is kinda odd that jevyan would want it so bad when all we ever see is a fireball-thrower which isn't _that_ special
20110705 12:02:48< zookeeper> so presumably there's something he could do with it that's never been told
20110705 12:03:34-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@61.94.195.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 12:03:54< esr> Hm.  You know, it would be fun to give him a line something like  The fools.  They have the Sceptre of Fire, but all they have found is its most trivial use." and then just leave that hanging...
20110705 12:05:00< zookeeper> yep, that'd work
20110705 12:05:06 * shadowmaster loves to fill gaps like that in add-ons no-one plays.
20110705 12:05:14 * esr knows
20110705 12:05:28< zookeeper> shadowmaster, have you filled that particular gap somewhere?
20110705 12:06:39< enchilado> Are there any artists on? I'm going to start my Royal Guard over to make it look more like an advancement of the Swordsman, and I need some tips on how to do that...
20110705 12:06:40< shadowmaster> ehhh, sort of. I'm not really happy with what I came up with since it's taken from an old storyboard for AtS. Since the explanation is so silly I've not been able to move ahead in terms of plot and the scenario in question is thus still disabled both in the last AtS release and in SVN trunk.
20110705 12:07:52< zookeeper> well, out with it :P
20110705 12:08:23< esr> OK, we now have two proposals on the table: (1) Give Jevyan a tantalizing line about the Scepter, (2) give the defenders of Weldyn the King and the Sceptre at the end of EI.
20110705 12:08:37< shadowmaster> Summarized, what I was attempting was to give the tiny Ruby of Fire and its replicas the special power of opening portals* between worlds, except the replicas were long destroyed and the Ruby always had more power than those.
20110705 12:09:19< esr> Ah, and the throw-firebals ecffect is a portal to the plane of elemental fire. :-)
20110705 12:09:43< shadowmaster> That could work, yeah!
20110705 12:10:03< esr> I like it.
20110705 12:10:03< shadowmaster> http://pastebin.com/45M3ZZtc
20110705 12:10:05< zookeeper> urgh, elemental planes...
20110705 12:10:54< shadowmaster> nah, I'd rather see the Ruby of Fire as a miniature energy condenser thing which has the portals mechanics as a side-effect
20110705 12:10:54< zookeeper> but yeah, that works for me
20110705 12:11:06< zookeeper> the portal thing, that is
20110705 12:11:39< esr> Either way it has the grweter effect of portal creation.
20110705 12:12:11 * esr is tempted to sneak in an Aperture Labs reference, but not seriously.
20110705 12:12:47< shadowmaster> (I had also come up with the Iron Triad (UtBS, IftU, AtS) being somehow related to Mal Ravanal's cult but I don't remember if I ever drafted any dialog to explain that clearly.)
20110705 12:12:50< zookeeper> better not ;)
20110705 12:12:54< enchilado> What's all this?
20110705 12:12:59< enchilado> >:(
20110705 12:13:35< zookeeper> enchilado, artists don't hang around here
20110705 12:14:33-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-179-130.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110705 12:14:36< enchilado> Fair enough. Are you talking about the 'Sceptre of Fire during the "Eastern Invasion"'s events'?
20110705 12:14:41< zookeeper> yes
20110705 12:17:16-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-179-130.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:17:52< zookeeper> esr, shadowmaster, so how does the ruby's "evilizing" effect fit into this?
20110705 12:18:02< zookeeper> might as well try to explain that while we're at it
20110705 12:18:21< esr> Good questrion.
20110705 12:19:02< esr> Here's a possibility.
20110705 12:19:05< zookeeper> idea: scratch the portal thing and just make the evilizing effect be a side-effect of some dark power it has and which is what the liches always seem to want
20110705 12:19:18< enchilado> I'd offer ideas if I'd played the campaign... or, indeed, any campaigns which featured the Sceptre of Fire. ... is there a channel where artists hang out at all?
20110705 12:19:47< zookeeper> enchilado, many of them? no, not besides the forum
20110705 12:19:56< shadowmaster> Isn't the evilification clearly stated in LoW to be an effect of the energy the Ruby emits? it's clearly brain cancer :)
20110705 12:20:13< zookeeper> err... :P
20110705 12:20:25< esr> zookeeper: Yeah.  I like the idea of making the sceptre more SFnal but your angle probably works better.
20110705 12:20:38< enchilado> Do you really need to be that specific...?
20110705 12:20:41 * esr the sceptre as cosmic cellphone
20110705 12:22:17< zookeeper> enchilado, it's not something we'd need to explicitly spell out the details in any campaign, but it helps with consistency and provides plot hooks.
20110705 12:22:37< enchilado> Mhm, forums are too difficult to ask for advice on. I'll just go for it. Maybe the ruby contains mercury and makes people go mad if they lick their fingers after touching it?
20110705 12:22:46< zookeeper> haha
20110705 12:23:03< zookeeper> now that's an idea
20110705 12:23:25 * esr rolls his eyes
20110705 12:23:38< esr> Rubies don't contain mercury!
20110705 12:23:46< zookeeper> but it's a magic ruby... :|
20110705 12:24:12 * esr slaps zookeeper with a mercury-contaminated fish.
20110705 12:24:25< zookeeper> *gollum* *gollum*
20110705 12:25:24-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:25:36< enchilado> Actually, is there a campaign where the ruby is carried back to the caves of the Green Isle to be destroyed?
20110705 12:25:38< shadowmaster> alternatively maybe there's some powerful <being> trapped in the ruby who tries to go all the One Ring on the user
20110705 12:25:48< enchilado> That'd make for an interesting campaign.
20110705 12:26:07< zookeeper> shadowmaster, ah, not too bad
20110705 12:26:35< esr> We're actually wandering off topic here.  Special evilness of the Ruby is all backstory - what we need to settle is where it is during the siege of Weldyn in EI.
20110705 12:26:48< enchilado> In a crypt
20110705 12:26:55< enchilado> Got buried with one of the kings
20110705 12:26:58< shadowmaster> enchilado: no, the Ruby is not destroyed in canon.
20110705 12:27:21< enchilado> shadowmaster: but there could be epic trecking through mountains, dodging orcs and stuff :|
20110705 12:27:28< enchilado> Or even trekking.
20110705 12:27:31< shadowmaster> enchilado: on *my* fanon though, see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Future_History 1092 YW
20110705 12:27:40< zookeeper> nah, they wouldn't bury it, it's the symbol of the royal house and a good cannon
20110705 12:28:22< enchilado> If they don't hide/lose/sell/bury it, then they have to have it with them.
20110705 12:28:34< enchilado> Unless it gets broken and they need to take it to the dwarves to get it fixed.
20110705 12:28:53< zookeeper> hrhm
20110705 12:29:35< zookeeper> esr, one more idea (or rather an extrapolation of the idea that ravanal stole it): maybe ravanal stole it and that's the reason he could create such a massive army?
20110705 12:29:52< esr> Hm.
20110705 12:30:11< shadowmaster> and then we wonder how he managed to steal it
20110705 12:30:19< esr> We could go that way, but I think it's overcomplicated.
20110705 12:30:38< enchilado> shadowmaster: a dark sorcer seizing control of Wesnoth would probably fit well into a campaign I've been wanting to make for some time.
20110705 12:30:56< shadowmaster> enchilado: there's enough material for that in Future_History :)
20110705 12:31:00< enchilado> If I wanted to make a campaign suitable story-wise for mainline, how would I go about that?
20110705 12:31:05< zookeeper> shadowmaster, well, he was some sort of a high-level figure in the court AFAICT
20110705 12:31:22< zookeeper> and knew how to teleport
20110705 12:31:48-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.160.86.244] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:32:09< zookeeper> esr, i think how ravanal managed to create such a massive army warrants an explanation of some kind
20110705 12:32:29< enchilado> The High Council of Archmagi? My vague story outline (written not really knowing anything of Wesnoth's story) included a corrupted society of magi... hrm hrm hrm. Anyway. </offtopic>
20110705 12:32:52< zookeeper> otherwise every lich in wesnoth would just wander off into the wilderness for a couple of decades and come back with an unbeatable army
20110705 12:33:01< shadowmaster> well, there should be something protecting the Scepter besides a couple of buffed guards or any random group of rogue magi could sneak in and steal it
20110705 12:33:33< esr> I think we actually have that explanation, though only implicitly.  Nobody could raise undead in those numbers before Ihiah-Malal weakened the wall between worlds.
20110705 12:34:26 * shadowmaster needs to play DM for once.
20110705 12:35:05< esr> Mal_ravanal was the first after that to reach the required power threahold to find and use the trace of Ihiah-Malal's portal.
20110705 12:35:23< esr> s/threahold/threshold/
20110705 12:35:26< zookeeper> shadowmaster, yeah, but it's not like they can hire three great mages to stand watch around the scepter all day; if you're good enough of a mage, have planned well, can get close enough to the scepter and so on... i don't see why not. i see no reason why someone like dacyn couldn't have done the same thing if he had wanted.
20110705 12:35:35< zookeeper> esr, ok, that works too
20110705 12:37:31< shadowmaster> sure they can hire them if they don't want to confirm the rumors raised after Asheviere's defeat of Weldyn's security personnel being extremely scarce and incompetent
20110705 12:38:24< shadowmaster> (really, with Konrad and Li'sar's little invasion I wonder how Wesnoth managed to exist for that long)
20110705 12:39:01 * esr is fixing up som TRoW dialog.
20110705 12:39:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 12:39:16< enchilado> Dialogue. ):<
20110705 12:39:55< shadowmaster> and that reminds me that some people had intended to rewrite HttT to be less goofy and plot-holey years ago.
20110705 12:40:35< enchilado> Goofy? Plot-holey? HttT?
20110705 12:40:55< enchilado> Getting rid of the old portaits is bad enough. ._.
20110705 12:41:09< shadowmaster> I can write an essay if oyu want.
20110705 12:41:37< enchilado> I haven't actually played it.
20110705 12:41:48< esr> Jevyan: "Casting fire is the least of the Ruby's abilities.  You are twice a fool, for having failed to plumb more than its most trivial use and for having given it away."
20110705 12:41:59< shadowmaster> okay, then I guess there's no need to complain about the portraits either :)
20110705 12:42:13< enchilado> I've played ... some of the tutorial!
20110705 12:42:16< enchilado> It uses them. 
20110705 12:43:07< shadowmaster> in a deliberately goofy and fourth-wall breaking setting
20110705 12:43:45< enchilado> What are you talking about? The tutorial has a sublime plot.
20110705 12:43:52< CIA-85> esr * r50155 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/22_The_Rise_of_Wesnoth.cfg: 
20110705 12:43:52< CIA-85> Give Jevyan a bit more nmtivation for chasing the Ruby of Fire while keeping
20110705 12:43:52< CIA-85> its actual abilities creatively unclear.
20110705 12:43:55< enchilado> "OH NO! MANNIKINS!"
20110705 12:43:59 * esr snorts
20110705 12:44:02< enchilado> "OH NO! ORCS!"
20110705 12:44:04< enchilado> The end.
20110705 12:44:51-!- mordante [~mordante@87.215.201.26] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:44:53< mordante> servus
20110705 12:45:25< mordante> loonycyborg, I'm looking at your code now, looks good in general, found some minor issues which I'm patching now
20110705 12:45:50< mordante> I assume you already tested whether the code works ;-)
20110705 12:47:03< esr> OK. Now.  Where is the Sceptre of Fire during the siege of Weldyn?
20110705 12:47:10< loonycyborg> mordante: I more care not about the code but about gui layout.
20110705 12:47:19< loonycyborg> I'm not a gui designer :P
20110705 12:47:42< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: I'll try to mess with the GUI WML soon
20110705 12:48:33< shadowmaster> every UI I design is guaranteed to be a captivating piece of art
20110705 12:48:44-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:48:45< CIA-85> esr * r50156 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/22_The_Rise_of_Wesnoth.cfg: Complete previous EI change.
20110705 12:49:40< shadowmaster> esr: I thought we (and wmllint) didn't like double blanks after stops.
20110705 12:49:45< zookeeper> esr, either with ravanal or in weldyn. i vote for ravanal for now, but my mind might change or i might be easily persuaded otherwise ;)
20110705 12:50:25< mordante> loonycyborg, I will look at the layout as well
20110705 12:50:53< shadowmaster> also, the "No, it can't be!" line removal makes me :(
20110705 12:51:22< esr> shadowmaster: Sorry about the double space.  I'll fix.
20110705 12:51:29< loonycyborg> shadowmaster: Maybe you'll be able to finish converting the addon list dialog to GUI2 then :)
20110705 12:51:53< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: eeeee I froze work on that temporarily while I come up with the GUI design
20110705 12:52:18< esr> zookeeper: I like the simplest solution to this one.  The king is there and he uses it.  Rebalance if necessary (which I doubt).
20110705 12:52:33-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:52:37< shadowmaster> an artist needs inspiration, and while I could just steal from Synaptic I want to comply with Wesnoth's standards as well
20110705 12:52:56< zookeeper> esr, i presume you don't mind if i remove the "He is right, human, " part from burin's line
20110705 12:53:26< esr> Not greattly.  But why?
20110705 12:53:55< zookeeper> it doesn't sound like burin nor does it seem to flow well with the rest of what he says
20110705 12:54:31< esr> zookeeper: OK.  As you like.  It's not dialog I'm attached to.
20110705 12:55:13< CIA-85> zookeeper * r50157 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/22_The_Rise_of_Wesnoth.cfg: Minor dialogue change.
20110705 12:55:57-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110705 12:56:19-!- enchilad1 [~enchilado@ppp118-208-38-114.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:57:41< enchilad1> Hrm
20110705 12:57:50-!- hhyloc [~hhyloc@113.166.148.33] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 12:59:19-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-115-114.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110705 12:59:30-!- enchilad1 is now known as enchilado
20110705 12:59:56< enchilado> Is it a good thing for units to get bigger as they level up...?
20110705 13:01:46< esr> zookeeper: To solve the immediate problem I'm going to drop Konrad II and the Sceptre into EI 17b.  If you want to develop a reason it's not there, I'm open to that.  But at least this way we'll answer the continuity issue raised on the forum.
20110705 13:02:50< zookeeper> mmkay...
20110705 13:03:44< zookeeper> but make sure to update he defeat conditions and objectives and all that right
20110705 13:04:26< esr> Already done that.  The only thing I don't remember is the mechanics of giving a character the Ruby.
20110705 13:04:34< zookeeper> also i hope you're adding a mention of the sceptre at the end of the preceding story scenario
20110705 13:04:59< zookeeper> mmh, look at how it's given to thursagan in "the dragon" in SoF
20110705 13:05:05< esr> OK.
20110705 13:05:54< zookeeper> it's probably a single [object] tag you can copy; give the king a [modifications] tag and put it there
20110705 13:06:12< esr> OK.
20110705 13:07:15< esr> He's going to be recalled, though.  I probably need to do the modification in the start event.
20110705 13:07:34< zookeeper> sure
20110705 13:07:55< zookeeper> oh, and actually it'd make more sense to give it to him already in "weldyn under attack"
20110705 13:08:03< shadowmaster> remember to use prestart instead of start for things the player shouldn't see
20110705 13:08:07< esr> Hm.  Yes.
20110705 13:09:19< shadowmaster> (remember I had to clean up that in THoT at one point because in prop-heavy maps the items were being "animated" appearing on the map one by one)
20110705 13:10:05-!- deekay [~dk@89-79-35-236.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 13:10:05-!- deekay [~dk@89-79-35-236.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 13:10:05-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 13:10:37< shadowmaster> anyway, see you, have fun
20110705 13:11:10< zookeeper> dunno if it'd make sense to have the king give the sceptre to gweddry for "the duel"
20110705 13:11:20-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20110705 13:11:23< zookeeper> (or rather, the player would be able to give it to any unit of his choosing)
20110705 13:11:40< esr> zookeeper: That might really be unbalancing.
20110705 13:12:07< zookeeper> well, then we can just bump ravanal's gold a bit. the player will have high-level mages anyway, and those deal about as much damage anyway.
20110705 13:12:17< esr> Agreed.
20110705 13:12:35< zookeeper> plus, ravanal could rant about how it's cheating ;)
20110705 13:12:47-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 13:13:08< timotei> "No. It can’t be!"
20110705 13:13:18< timotei> why isn't that an ordinary apostrophe? 
20110705 13:13:21< timotei> esr: ^
20110705 13:13:42< esr> timotei: It's a Unicode thing.
20110705 13:13:56-!- Nephro [~Dmitry@80.233.231.12] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 13:18:40< esr> zookeeper: If I give an object with duration=forever to Konrad, will he keep it past the scenario end or do I need to re-give it?
20110705 13:19:20< zookeeper> no need to re-give
20110705 13:19:39< esr> zookeeper: OK, that's what I expected.
20110705 13:19:42< zookeeper> in fact, the only alternative (duration=level) hasn't even worked for years...
20110705 13:20:02< zookeeper> we should be deprecating that
20110705 13:22:16< esr> Sanity-checking...
20110705 13:22:53< esr> zookeeper: Good reason ot to let the Sceptre be handed around - it's the King's badge of office.
20110705 13:25:08< zookeeper> true, but it's still the decisive battle, and the sceptre isn't of much use if gweddry loses
20110705 13:29:32< esr> Also, I don't know how to do movable artifacts ;-)
20110705 13:30:15< esr> About to commit a minimal patch that should do until and unless we develop something more clever.
20110705 13:31:35< zookeeper> ok
20110705 13:31:45< zookeeper> would be a good idea to post an update in that thread too
20110705 13:32:11-!- covale [~covale@h55eb1ca0.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110705 13:34:03< CIA-85> esr * r50158 /trunk/data/ (4 files in 3 dirs): 
20110705 13:34:04< CIA-85> A forum user pointed out that the King ought to be using the royal house's
20110705 13:34:04< CIA-85> pocket cannon (the Sceptre of Fire) during the siege situations in EI. Since
20110705 13:34:04< CIA-85> the user already has some undetermined number of has high-level mages
20110705 13:34:04< CIA-85> (e.g. firecasters) at this point, this addition shouldn't be unbalancing.
20110705 13:39:18< esr> Update posted.
20110705 13:39:58< esr> I think we're done, at least until zookeeper comes up with a more elaborate storyline and sells it to us.
20110705 13:40:09-!- Sytyi [~sytyi@23-208-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 13:52:04< Nephro> Is it right that some units face South while attacking a unit who is North to him?
20110705 13:52:34< Nephro> Looks very weird, the attack animation seems to fire from the back of the unit, although he is sending it in front of him
20110705 13:53:55< enchilado> It's probably because no one has drawn a north(-west)-facing frame for it.
20110705 13:54:54-!- hhyloc [~hhyloc@113.166.148.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110705 13:57:18< CIA-85> esr * r50159 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/scenarios/22_The_Rise_of_Wesnoth.cfg: Fix spacing.
20110705 13:57:39-!- lamefun [~dingbing@unaffiliated/lamefun] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 14:00:47-!- Alarantalara [~alarantal@CPEc0c1c09e8055-CM00252eac6d62.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 14:01:12-!- Alarantalara [~alarantal@CPEc0c1c09e8055-CM00252eac6d62.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20110705 14:24:47-!- Gambit [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 14:27:39-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-38-114.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110705 14:32:00-!- Johannes13__ [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 14:35:44-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110705 14:40:33-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-68-92.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 14:40:33-!- Johannes13__ is now known as Johannes13
20110705 14:40:36-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 14:40:36-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 14:50:54-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-68-92.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110705 14:51:37-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-20-121-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 14:52:07-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 14:53:03-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-86-146.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 15:09:00-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20110705 15:09:51-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@bb121-6-148-98.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110705 15:13:05-!- loonybot [~loonybot@46.138.90.123] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 15:13:05-!- loonybot [~loonybot@46.138.90.123] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 15:13:05-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 15:15:14-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@bb121-6-148-98.singnet.com.sg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 15:17:38< CIA-85> nephro * r50160 /trunk/src/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 
20110705 15:17:38< CIA-85> Sticky behaviours now mark themselves to_be_removed when encounter that their
20110705 15:17:38< CIA-85> bound unit is missing(dead or some other reason). Also the RCA_Loop was extended
20110705 15:17:38< CIA-85> to call a function that removes all the CAs marked to_be_removed, but the
20110705 15:17:38< CIA-85> functionality was not implemented completely yet
20110705 15:18:35-!- Nephro [~Dmitry@80.233.231.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 15:22:51-!- sheraff [~Tri@c-98-196-106-93.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110705 15:35:58-!- esr [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/esr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110705 15:50:08-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-254-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 16:27:39-!- Gambit_ [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 16:28:34-!- Gambit [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20110705 16:32:33-!- MeccaGod [~majs@host189-199.bornet.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 16:35:27-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.160.86.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 16:39:24-!- Gambit_ is now known as Gambit
20110705 16:50:20-!- lamefun [~dingbing@unaffiliated/lamefun] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 16:59:16-!- mordante [~mordante@87.215.201.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110705 17:02:38-!- alkenrinnstet [~alkenrinn@bb121-6-148-98.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20110705 17:27:05-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@76.202.22.38] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 17:39:15-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 17:42:21-!- tschmitz [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 17:48:56-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 17:51:39< timotei> can an add-on/campaign import other add-ons/campaign's directories?
20110705 17:51:42< timotei> for example:
20110705 17:51:46< timotei> {campaigns/Dead_Water/units}
20110705 17:51:54< timotei> but this code to be in LoW
20110705 17:52:02< timotei> or in a custom add-on
20110705 17:52:50< zookeeper> yes
20110705 17:57:27-!- Exasperation [4a47319b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.71.49.155] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 17:57:57-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@CPE-60-226-179-130.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20110705 18:04:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 18:09:36-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-254-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 18:10:37-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-254-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:14:13-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:14:18-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 18:17:14-!- stikonas [~gentoo@ctv-213-164-115-173.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:33:07-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 18:33:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 18:43:18-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:46:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:54:15-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 18:55:05-!- esr [~chatzilla@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:55:26-!- esr [~chatzilla@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 18:55:26-!- esr [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/esr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 18:56:20-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
--- Log opened Tue Jul 05 19:40:16 2011
20110705 19:40:24-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 19:40:24-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 222 bugs, 320 feature requests, 30 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110705 19:40:24-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Mon Jul  4 23:26:29 2011]
20110705 19:40:24[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20110705 19:40:24[ Aeth           ] [ erl         ] [ knotwork    ] [ Smar     ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ AI0867_        ] [ Espreon     ] [ lamefun     ] [ stikonas ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ apoi           ] [ esr         ] [ lobby       ] [ Sytyi    ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ Ardonik        ] [ Exasperation] [ loonybot    ] [ Tigge    ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ Blueblaze      ] [ fendrin     ] [ loonycyborg ] [ timotei  ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ chpln          ] [ Gambit      ] [ LordNasty   ] [ tschmitz ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ chrisoelmueller] [ Greywhind   ] [ Max20010    ] [ Upthorn  ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ CIA-85         ] [ Ingmar      ] [ MeccaGod    ] [ vcap     ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ cjhopman       ] [ isaac_      ] [ melinath    ] [ Vorpal   ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ Crendgrim      ] [ Ivanovic    ] [ neph        ] [ wesbot   ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ crimson_penguin] [ iwaim       ] [ noy         ] [ zaroth   ] 
20110705 19:40:24[ deekay         ] [ iwaim______ ] [ Rhonda      ] [ zookeeper] 
20110705 19:40:24[ elias          ] [ janebot     ] [ shadowmaster] 
20110705 19:40:24[ enchilado      ] [ Johannes13  ] [ shikadibot  ] 
20110705 19:40:24-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 54 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 54 normal]
20110705 19:40:32-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20110705 19:40:37-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 19:41:08-!- lamefun [~dingbing@unaffiliated/lamefun] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110705 19:41:49-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 93 secs
20110705 19:44:00-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 19:47:20-!- EdB [~edb@89.82.194.231] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 19:48:10-!- tschmitz [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20110705 19:49:34-!- tschmitz [626cdb95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.108.219.149] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 19:55:37-!- Sytyi [~sytyi@23-208-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110705 20:00:50-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net]
20110705 20:04:17-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:07:03-!- Sytyi [~sytyi@23-208-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:09:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 20:09:40-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 20:10:52-!- noy_ [~Noy@74.198.151.85] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:10:52-!- noy_ [~Noy@74.198.151.85] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 20:10:52-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:14:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110705 20:14:33-!- noy_ is now known as noy
20110705 20:14:58-!- Shakey [HydraIRC@c-24-1-105-76.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:15:25-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-254-233-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 20:17:36-!- Max20010 [~chatzilla@d91-128-237-111.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 20:19:00-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:21:54-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 20:26:34-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:35:08-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:35:24< mordante> servus
20110705 20:35:42< timotei> hi mordante 
20110705 20:35:57< mordante> hi timotei 
20110705 20:37:02< timotei> mordante: I'm wondering, why is that "non-static" methods a warning?
20110705 20:38:26 * mordante loves the size of Love_To_Death ... 3.44901e+06
20110705 20:39:17< mordante> gcc warns about it, probably since the symbol has external linkage but not declared before defined
20110705 20:40:29< mordante> loonycyborg, the dialog is only visible for a short while, but see no obvious glitches
20110705 20:40:54< mordante> loonycyborg, so feel free to make it the default, if it then looks not optimal I can still tweak it a bit
20110705 20:41:14-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@76.202.22.38] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze]
20110705 20:42:37< CIA-85> mordante * r50162 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (network_transmission.cpp network_transmission.hpp): 
20110705 20:42:37< CIA-85> Some minor tweaks to the network dialog.
20110705 20:42:37< CIA-85> Changes:
20110705 20:42:37< CIA-85> - Allows the progress to be translated.
20110705 20:42:37< CIA-85> - Sets the title directly upon creation.
20110705 20:42:38< mordante> loonycyborg, ^ 
20110705 20:43:00< mordante> loonycyborg, also wonder why it's not allowed to clear the subtitle after it has been set once
20110705 20:46:22-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-20-121-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 20:47:12< loonycyborg> mordante: Because there was no need for it for now.
20110705 20:47:43< mordante> ok
20110705 20:47:58< Sytyi> mordante: hi! What about adding special .schema file and put information about types there? then SG will parse it, add type info to schema.cfg 
20110705 20:48:09-!- EdB_ [~edb@89.82.194.231] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:48:19-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-20-121-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 20:49:34< Sytyi> mordante: and also SG will check  that all types mentioned in key value exist .
20110705 20:52:11-!- EdB_ [~edb@89.82.194.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 20:52:21-!- EdB [~edb@89.82.194.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110705 20:52:27< loonycyborg> mordante: Besides isn't setting it to "" the same as clearing it?
20110705 20:54:14< mordante> loonycyborg, except that the pre_show() ignores the subtitle when empty, so can't be cleared
20110705 20:54:46< mordante> Sytyi, I prefer to have the type information to be generated from wiki comment
20110705 20:54:59< mordante> so don't think a separate file will be needed
20110705 20:57:01< CIA-85> timotei * r50163 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/ (34 files in 11 dirs): 
20110705 20:57:01< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Make the WMLValue and macro call parameters
20110705 20:57:01< CIA-85> to return Java String type
20110705 20:57:14< CIA-85> timotei * r50164 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/builder/DependencyTreeBuilder.java: 
20110705 20:57:14< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Update the dependency code to take
20110705 20:57:14< CIA-85> in account the _main.cfg contents
20110705 20:57:23< CIA-85> timotei * r50165 /trunk/utils/umc_dev/org.wesnoth/src/org/wesnoth/builder/DependencyTreeBuilder.java: 
20110705 20:57:23< CIA-85> eclipse plugin: Fix the order the macro calls are
20110705 20:57:24< CIA-85> parsed. The grammar still needs to be fixed to output the
20110705 20:57:24< CIA-85> tokens in the order in the file.
20110705 20:57:42< Sytyi> mordante: ok. Types are allowed in wiki comments too.
20110705 20:57:54-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Quit: SIGKILL]
20110705 20:58:59< Sytyi> mordante: The first version of type looks like @allow{type}{name="unsigned"}{value="^\d+$"}
20110705 20:59:15< Sytyi> mordante: value needs to be a regex now.
20110705 21:00:48< Sytyi> mordante: and ASA I will merge conflicts - i ll write checking types.
20110705 21:02:05< loonycyborg> mordante: KiB is 1024 bytes therefore you byte count by 1024.
20110705 21:02:07< Sytyi> mordante: Evaluations are coming. I have working schema reading part of validator. Are there any things (except design documentation) I shall do ASAP ?
20110705 21:02:08< CIA-85> loonycyborg * r50166 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/network_transmission.cpp: Fix unit conversion.
20110705 21:02:35< loonycyborg> (just in case you didn't already know that :P )
20110705 21:03:37< loonycyborg> Though that's unlikely..
20110705 21:07:22< loonycyborg> *you divide byte count
20110705 21:08:38< mordante> loonycyborg, I made a classical copy-paste-screw-up ;-)
20110705 21:09:07< mordante> Sytyi, what do you mean with ASA?
20110705 21:09:19< Sytyi> mordante: As Soon As
20110705 21:09:34< mordante> ah ok
20110705 21:10:10< mordante> well I'd like to get the validation part in the engine itself soon, if possible
20110705 21:11:36-!- vcap [~vcap@AReims-551-1-92-163.w92-155.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110705 21:11:41< Sytyi> mordante: validation is not written yet. but I suggest to have prototype before next week
20110705 21:12:29< mordante> ok that would be great
20110705 21:12:32< Sytyi> mordante: Especially prototype only generating warnings, without levels of strictness, changes to default etc
20110705 21:12:54< mordante> any problems you need help with at the moment?
20110705 21:13:17< Sytyi> mordante: nope. Maybe tomorrow, little help with documentation
20110705 21:13:30-!- vcap [~vcap@AReims-551-1-150-64.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:13:51< Sytyi> mordante: Had read  More Effective C++ today :-)
20110705 21:15:57< mordante> that's Scott's book isn't it?
20110705 21:16:25< Sytyi> mordante: yes
20110705 21:16:52< mordante> he has since books :-)
20110705 21:18:44< Sytyi> mordante: Now I understand why I schould never return reference to static :-D 
20110705 21:18:46< loonycyborg> Don't also forget about Bjarne's book :P
20110705 21:19:25< Sytyi> loonycyborg: Bought but had no time :-( Use like reference sometimes
20110705 21:19:26< mordante> Sytyi, good
20110705 21:20:04< mordante> Bjarne's book is different but also great, I hope the 4th edition with hit the shelves soon
20110705 21:26:10-!- loonycyborg_ [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:27:31-!- loonycyborg [~sergey@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Quit: I ATE'NT DEAD]
20110705 21:27:32-!- loonycyborg_ is now known as loonycyborg
20110705 21:30:59-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@d184063.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:31:37-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin]
20110705 21:34:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 21:39:02-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:39:16-!- stikonas [~gentoo@ctv-213-164-115-173.vinita.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 21:42:09-!- Dragonking [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:43:57-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:44:07-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:44:17< A_Guy> Yo.
20110705 21:45:20-!- stikonas [~and@ctv-213-164-115-173.vinita.lt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:45:20-!- stikonas [~and@ctv-213-164-115-173.vinita.lt] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 21:45:20-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:45:41-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 21:48:12-!- A_Guy [~chatzilla@cpe-74-72-253-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
20110705 21:48:55-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-095-208-215-104.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 21:53:55-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net]
20110705 22:01:05-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 22:04:45-!- MeccaGod [~majs@host189-199.bornet.net] has quit []
20110705 22:07:37-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-86-146.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20110705 22:09:45-!- enchilado [~enchilado@ppp118-208-86-146.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 22:33:14-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110705 22:44:17-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.11.91] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 22:47:35-!- neph [~neph@80.233.231.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 22:50:59-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 22:51:00-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@p5DF74D12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110705 22:51:00-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 22:51:40-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 22:59:47-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:00:33-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110705 23:01:43-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110705 23:06:06< tschmitz> Hey how do you guys split up your changes into a bunch of separate commits that happen all at once?
20110705 23:06:25< Ivanovic> tschmitz: they use git-svn
20110705 23:06:37< tschmitz> Ah
20110705 23:07:16< elias> they don't happen at once though, since svn is extremely slow :P
20110705 23:08:36-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20110705 23:08:39< tschmitz> Ivanovic: Is that something I can use on Windows 7?
20110705 23:08:51< Ivanovic> tschmitz: no idea
20110705 23:09:03< tschmitz> Ivanovic: OK. Thank you
20110705 23:09:09< Ivanovic> check the howto: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GIT-SVN
20110705 23:09:44< Ivanovic> i'll pastebin you the git ball url in a query
20110705 23:10:33< Ivanovic> if you make this work under windows you might want to consider adding a note that it works and possibly a link what is to be used
20110705 23:10:44-!- AI0867_ [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110705 23:11:21-!- Espreon [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110705 23:11:30-!- shadowmaster [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110705 23:17:33< tschmitz> hmmm ... perhaps I'll look into it ... "some other time"
20110705 23:19:02-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@zla02.domus.cz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:20:46-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@c-76-105-37-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20110705 23:22:08-!- mono_laptop [~monochrom@pool-173-59-73-4.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:26:28-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 221 bugs, 320 feature requests, 30 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110705 23:27:48< anonymissimus> tschmitz: yes you can
20110705 23:27:57< anonymissimus> timotei and me do
20110705 23:28:21< anonymissimus> that is for me it's win xp but timotei has win 7 afaik
20110705 23:28:40< tschmitz> anonymissimus: Is it easy to set up?
20110705 23:28:55< anonymissimus> follow the instructions in the posted link
20110705 23:29:07< anonymissimus> i put some windows notes the recently too
20110705 23:29:43< mordante> I'm off night
20110705 23:29:56< anonymissimus> tschmitz: http://code.google.com/p/msysgit/
20110705 23:30:04-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110705 23:30:14< anonymissimus> I installed this (and timotei gace me the link)
20110705 23:30:56< tschmitz> OK, cool
20110705 23:31:07< tschmitz> anonymissimus: Is it, er, lightweight?
20110705 23:31:09< anonymissimus> and you need to be very careful about the "binary bit" and the "eol style"
20110705 23:31:44< anonymissimus> leightweight ? well certainly not as heavy as eclipse^^
20110705 23:32:14-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@d184063.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 23:32:32-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-224-192.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:34:40-!- shadowmaster [~ignacio@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:37:45-!- AI0867 [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:37:53< tschmitz> anonymissimus: "Checkout Windows-style, commit Unix-style line endings"?
20110705 23:38:04-!- Espreon [~espreon@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:38:13-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:38:30-!- Espreon is now known as Guest19132
20110705 23:39:58< anonymissimus> tschmitz: no!
20110705 23:40:14< anonymissimus> dont let it convert anythign automatically
20110705 23:40:27< tschmitz> anonymissimus: Mk
20110705 23:42:41-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110705 23:46:30< anonymissimus> btw Exasperation : around ?
20110705 23:46:37< Exasperation> yeah
20110705 23:47:43< anonymissimus> I found this code http://pastebin.com/4aFXq9zx made my lua codings much easier
20110705 23:48:46< anonymissimus> it outputs the content of the stack e.g. in one of these intf_* functions
20110705 23:49:13< anonymissimus> so one knows which index to use in order to access which values
20110705 23:50:46-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:50:57-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:51:00< Exasperation> makes sense
20110705 23:51:25-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20110705 23:51:31-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110705 23:53:02< anonymissimus> it could be improved to output a table more in detail
20110705 23:53:30< anonymissimus> and I'd like to add it to the source btu since it's only useful for devs dont know of a good way to do that
20110705 23:53:43< tschmitz> anonymissimus: Am I going to be able to convert my TortoiseSVN local working copy into a Git local repository?
20110705 23:53:56< anonymissimus> tschmitz: dont think so
20110705 23:54:14< anonymissimus> download the repository which Ivanovic gave you teh link to
20110705 23:54:35< tschmitz> Oh that's a repository?
20110705 23:54:38< anonymissimus> y
20110705 23:54:43< anonymissimus> a local reposuitory
20110705 23:55:33< anonymissimus> I've added notes about the solutions for the most important problems I hit to that wiki page
20110705 23:56:16< anonymissimus> although if you use that repository only with a single windows installations you will hit less problems
20110705 23:56:56< shadowmaster> 17:40:14 <anonymissimus> dont let it convert anythign automatically
20110705 23:56:57-!- zookeeper [~l@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20110705 23:57:00< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: why?
20110705 23:57:26< anonymissimus> because that is crab when you use the same source tree with win and linux
20110705 23:57:39< shadowmaster> poor crab
20110705 23:57:47< anonymissimus> win wants to write CRLF, Linux wants LF
20110705 23:58:09< anonymissimus> meaning that the two installations "go out of sync"
20110705 23:58:29< anonymissimus> some files will be listed as changed on Linux but not on win
20110705 23:58:34< anonymissimus> at the same time
20110705 23:59:20< anonymissimus> timotei had tons of problems with that afaik
--- Log closed Wed Jul 06 00:00:41 2011