--- Log opened Mon Jul 11 00:00:40 2011
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20110711 07:14:32< enchilado> I am very interested in making a mainline-suitable campaign. Is there anything I should include/avoid?
20110711 07:16:09< Espreon> 1. Just don't trample on the other campaigns.
20110711 07:16:12< Espreon> 2. Read the timeline
20110711 07:16:18< Espreon> 3. ???
20110711 07:16:23< Espreon> 4. Profit
20110711 07:17:02< Espreon> enchilado: Do you have any ideas for it?
20110711 07:17:24< enchilado> Espreon: yes, I did a fair amount of work on the story a while ago without reading the timeline :S
20110711 07:17:29< enchilado> So I need to adapt it to fit in.
20110711 07:17:35< Espreon> Oy vey...
20110711 07:17:36< shadowmaster> What Espreon said in (1) and (2), and ask esr what's the plan for producing or adding UMC to mainline now that only the Drake faction gap is left with WoV
20110711 07:17:56< enchilado> WoV?
20110711 07:18:00< shadowmaster> Wings of Victory
20110711 07:19:04< shadowmaster> I honestly don't think we need more mainline campaigns but (un)fortunately that's not my department.
20110711 07:20:10< enchilado> It doesn't need to be a mainline campaign, just mainline-suitable
20110711 07:20:52< Espreon> Well... then just follow points one and two and talk to esr about WoV.
20110711 07:21:22< shadowmaster> Espreon: what
20110711 07:21:43< shadowmaster> I don't think enchilado is one of those crazy people who think the drake faction deserves a place in mainline.
20110711 07:22:44< Espreon> Who knows?
20110711 07:22:51< enchilado> Well, there's something to be said for their simplicity.
20110711 07:23:04< shadowmaster> simplicity my ass
20110711 07:23:23< shadowmaster> every single match I play with them is one where I get my ass handed to me by my oponent(s)
20110711 07:23:24< enchilado> And they look nice.
20110711 07:23:42< enchilado> They're good for people who cbf with strategy
20110711 07:23:51< shadowmaster> cbf?
20110711 07:23:59< enchilado> Can't Be Fucked.
20110711 07:24:04< shadowmaster> *what*?
20110711 07:24:09< shadowmaster> I love strategy!
20110711 07:24:14< shadowmaster> I never win with drakes!
20110711 07:24:19< enchilado> Exactly
20110711 07:25:17< shadowmaster> Their costs are high, they are very weak to generic attacks like pierce... really I can't see why they exist.
20110711 07:25:31< Espreon> Maybe you just suck.™
20110711 07:25:41< enchilado> They're simple to play.
20110711 07:25:56< enchilado> They're all much the same, so you just build what you can afford, take any villages you can reach and attack any enemies you see
20110711 07:26:10< enchilado> They have the same defense on all terrains so you don't need to worry about where you move them to.
20110711 07:26:28< shadowmaster> If "simple to play" means "almost impossible to win with", yes.
20110711 07:26:45< enchilado> Ah, but a beginner with drakes will beat a beginner with undead
20110711 07:27:16< shadowmaster> Okay, that has got to be the worst argument in favor of drakes I've ever heard.
20110711 07:27:36< enchilado> Well, I'm not really trying - the only thing I really like about the drakes is their art.
20110711 07:32:10< enchilado> Anyway... I've had this campaign idea for ages now about an old king that has to flee his home when undead attack and eventually ends up in the necromancer's lair, where he's killed.
20110711 07:32:26< enchilado> The only real concern I have is that necromancers are a bit cliche.
20110711 07:33:15< shadowmaster> Not as much as Doomed Hometown scenarios.
20110711 07:33:42< enchilado> Mhm, that's not particularly important to the story.
20110711 07:34:02< enchilado> Easily removeable.
20110711 07:35:35< enchilado> Removable, rather.
20110711 07:38:10< enchilado> But there are bits that don't really fit with the Wesnoth backstory, like a corrupted society of mages that are paid by the king to protect Wesnoth.
20110711 07:40:22< enchilado> Mhm. And nobody's replied to my Royal Guard sketch, so I don't know where to go with that. :/
20110711 07:41:42< enchilado> ... although I suppose the society doesn't need to be corrupted, they could just as easily train the necromancer so they can come in and save the day without having been protecting Wesnoth for many years beforehand... hrm...
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20110711 09:53:49< Ivanovic> moin
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20110711 09:56:52< Ivanovic> boucman, Crab_, fabi, gabba, mordante, nephro, sytyi, timotei21, tschmitz, zaroth: don't forget that the mid term evals open in some hours (in about 9h to be more precise) and then you got 4 days to fill them
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20110711 10:10:37< timotei21> yep
20110711 10:10:42< timotei21> thanks for reminding
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20110711 11:15:32< fabi> Ivanovic: okay
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20110711 11:35:26-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 223 bugs, 320 feature requests, 29 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110711 11:35:26-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Sun Jul 10 05:26:29 2011]
20110711 11:35:26[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20110711 11:35:26[ Aeth ] [ CIA-85 ] [ Espreon ] [ knotwork ] [ shadowmaster] [ vcap ]
20110711 11:35:26[ AI0867 ] [ cjhopman ] [ fabi ] [ lobby ] [ shikadibot ] [ Vorpal ]
20110711 11:35:26[ apoi ] [ Crendgrim ] [ Greywhind ] [ loonybot ] [ Smar ] [ vultraz ]
20110711 11:35:26[ Appleman1234 ] [ crimson_penguin] [ Ingmar ] [ loonycyborg] [ Soliton ] [ wesbot ]
20110711 11:35:26[ Ardonik ] [ dtiger ] [ isaac_ ] [ MeccaGod ] [ stikonas ] [ zookeeper ]
20110711 11:35:26[ atomicbomb ] [ EdB ] [ Ivanovic ] [ melinath ] [ Tigge ] [ zookeeper2]
20110711 11:35:26[ beetlenaut ] [ elias ] [ iwaim_ ] [ noy ] [ timotei21 ]
20110711 11:35:26[ chpln ] [ enchilado ] [ iwaim______] [ phildini ] [ tschmitz ]
20110711 11:35:26[ chrisoelmueller] [ erl ] [ janebot ] [ Rhonda ] [ Upthorn ]
20110711 11:35:26-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 51 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 51 normal]
20110711 11:35:42-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20110711 12:35:57< timotei21> lol
20110711 12:36:02< timotei21> dos2unix converts LF to CRLF :))
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20110711 13:01:23< Sytyi> What line number does parser show in error message?The number of line in preprocessed stream or the number of line in file, which was substitued as macro?
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20110711 13:05:41< elias> i'm quite sure it's line number in file
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20110711 13:08:54< Sytyi> elias: Thanks .
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20110711 14:39:26< Nephro> Heya! Where could I find people, who develop scenarios, campaigns etc? I want to show them the syntax and capabilities of the current LuaAI
20110711 14:39:44< timotei> Nephro: on their forum
20110711 14:39:58< timotei> Nephro: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=21
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20110711 15:02:09< Nephro> hm, thanks timotei
20110711 15:02:15< timotei> yw
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20110711 16:59:08< wesbot> neph: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 2d 16h ago. 2d 16h ago they left with the message: Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org
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20110711 20:06:27< mordante> servus
20110711 20:06:38< timotei21> hi mordante
20110711 20:06:45< mordante> Ivanovic, thanks for the reminder, however I still remembered that I had to do it this week
20110711 20:06:47< mordante> hi timotei21
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20110711 20:07:03< Ivanovic> mordante: just making sure that everyone is aware of it
20110711 20:10:13< Sytyi> mordante: hi
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20110711 20:10:24< mordante> hi Sytyi
20110711 20:10:32< mordante> hi YogiHH long time not seen
20110711 20:10:53< YogiHH> hi mordante: indeed
20110711 20:11:28< Sytyi> mordante: I have read parser.cpp and now I can tell you two different solutions of the including validation there.
20110711 20:12:37< Sytyi> mordante: But I'm curious where file name and line number are taken ?
20110711 20:12:38< mordante> Sytyi, ok
20110711 20:12:38< YogiHH> woot, haven't seen like half the names around here before O-O
20110711 20:12:58< mordante> YogiHH, still working on your branch or no time?
20110711 20:14:00< YogiHH> no time until now, but i reduced my real life workload to 10 days a month in order to work on a new business idea. Maybe that makes me find some time for wesnoth again.
20110711 20:14:58< YogiHH> mordante: i am learning about internet marketing right now. Very interesting stuff :)
20110711 20:15:12< Sytyi> mordante: Call me, when you have time.
20110711 20:15:56< anonymissimus> zookeeper: just seen that lessluvk era isn't on the 1.8 or 1.9 addons server, you were the last maintainer and it's in the wesnoth umc repo; do you mind if I update it to 1.8/1.9 ?
20110711 20:16:01< mordante> YogiHH, what kind of internet marketing?
20110711 20:17:59< YogiHH> mordante: It's called the "Web 2.0 Traffic System" and is done by a guy named Mario Schneider. It basically boils down to making yourself known as an expert in a certain area, get traffic on your blog via twitter, facebook, youtube and other channels, building up an image and then finding people who are interested in your product.
20110711 20:18:35< YogiHH> building up a reputation is probably better wording :)
20110711 20:20:34< mordante> ah ok
20110711 20:21:18< mordante> and you use that to get more customers to your real business
20110711 20:22:25< YogiHH> mordante: well, yes, although up to now i had partners who did the marketing for me, but they also want quite a bit of the money for that ;)
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20110711 20:22:44< YogiHH> mordante: This time i want to have my own customers, so i am doing the marketing myself
20110711 20:23:14< mordante> that would seem to me to be the hardest part of having your own business, find the customers
20110711 20:24:11< YogiHH> mordante: correct, but this guy Mario Schneider seems to know quite a bunch of tricks, although he is pretty young still, like 21 or something.
20110711 20:24:34< mordante> that's nice
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20110711 20:32:13< mordante> Sytyi, I've time now
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20110711 20:33:09< timotei21> hi gabba :P
20110711 20:33:19< gabba> hey timotei21 :)
20110711 20:33:59< gabba> how's your project going?
20110711 20:36:55< Sytyi> mordante: But I'm curious where file name and line number are taken ?
20110711 20:37:12< anonymissimus> mordante: should we label the patch(es) adding the pango parameter to gui2 label "won't do" ?
20110711 20:37:50< mordante> anonymissimus, yes unless there will be another patch taking the proper approach
20110711 20:37:52< Sytyi> mordante: I'll try to say it , but can not find words. Is that info taken from files that are attached with macros? or from preprocessed stream ?
20110711 20:38:04< mordante> that's why I discussed it here with the submitter
20110711 20:39:27< anonymissimus> why is tcontrol::set_use_markup callable btw if it shouldn't be called :P
20110711 20:41:26< anonymissimus> mordante: but is it ok to use tcontrol::set_active ?
20110711 20:41:27< zookeeper> anonymissimus, no, i don't mind, but please fix the probabilities issue too if you do ;)
20110711 20:42:18< anonymissimus> zookeeper: oho so doesnt it work correctly ?
20110711 20:42:36< anonymissimus> in principle
20110711 20:42:43< zookeeper> anonymissimus, yeah. it's explained somewhere in the thread
20110711 20:43:03< zookeeper> CtH tends to converge towards 50%, i've been told
20110711 20:44:08< mordante> Sytyi, it seems the tokenizer used as parser::tok knows the file and linenumber
20110711 20:44:22< Sytyi> mordante: So it's great!
20110711 20:44:40< anonymissimus> hm that is probably a lot of work..no, was hoping it's be enough to wmllint etc
20110711 20:45:00< timotei21> gabba: pretty good. Although I've reached a "hard" part it's fine in the rest :D
20110711 20:45:14< Sytyi> mordante: Regarding to the solutions. One is to create bool validate(string fullpath, config cfg).
20110711 20:46:22< timotei21> Ivanovic: ok, I've submitted my eval :)
20110711 20:47:16< mordante> anonymissimus, haven't looked at that patch, feel free to assign it to me
20110711 20:47:29< Sytyi> mordante: Simple interface, many times looking for element to find him in tree. (ie string::find(), string::substring(), map::find() will be called for every level of path. And this only to find tag in tree :-( )
20110711 20:47:49< anonymissimus> mordante: http://gna.org/patch/?2767
20110711 20:48:40< anonymissimus> zookeeper: well, seeing the code of that era and given a very hard to fix bug it may be a better idea to rewrite the thing lua-supported
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20110711 20:52:03< Sytyi> Ivanovic: thanks for reminding - I have submitted that questionnaire.
20110711 20:52:47< tschmitz> gabba: Hello.
20110711 20:52:49< Sytyi> timotei21: Do you know do we need to submit anth except that questionnaire ?
20110711 20:52:54< gabba> hey tschmitz
20110711 20:52:59< timotei21> Sytyi: just that
20110711 20:53:09< gabba> I'm looking at your code right now
20110711 20:53:15< mordante> Sytyi, and the other option is?
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20110711 20:55:30< gabba> tschmitz: random remark, don't put an else on the same line as the following instruction - it's considered bad style and can hinder debugging
20110711 20:55:38< gabba> "else set_arrow_texture(ARROW_TEXTURE_INVALID);"
20110711 20:56:02< tschmitz> gabba: OK, never heard that one before
20110711 20:56:06< gabba> I'm going through the commit diffs though, so I might come across some stuff you changed later on
20110711 20:56:09< tschmitz> won't do that, then.
20110711 20:56:56< Sytyi> mordante: To create ABC with methods push() , pop() , validate() to mimicry the stack of config, where push(string) will put on top of the validation stack tag with that name, and then validation will be done using that tag as parent; pop() will return to parent of cuurent tag and validate - do the validation. This will be polished as well.
20110711 20:57:04< Espreon> mordante: It seems that ’ + = ' ; do you think this is a bug in Pango?
20110711 20:57:10< gabba> tschmitz: actually, a lot of people prefer to always use if {} else {} (i.e. with braces)
20110711 20:57:44< tschmitz> gabba: aye
20110711 20:57:56< anonymissimus> zookeeper: any hints about the cause of the bug ? maybe a rounding issue (in th engine) ?
20110711 20:58:20< gabba> tschmitz: personally I find it a bit heavy to *always* use them, but you have to be aware that it helps prevent mistakes when adding more instructions to the if or else block
20110711 20:59:09< mordante> Espreon, sorry can't parse that sentence
20110711 20:59:52 * YogiHH prefers braces always, too. He has found this to decrease the overall effort.
20110711 20:59:54< Espreon> mordante: A real apostrophe that is affected by Pango markup gets rendered as a straight apostrophe. Do you think this is a bug in Pango?
20110711 20:59:59< mordante> Sytyi, maybe it should be a stateful parser that knows which element it's currently parsing
20110711 21:00:42< Sytyi> mordante: the second solution is smth like that.
20110711 21:00:58< Sytyi> mordante: Or what do you mean?
20110711 21:01:09< mordante> Espreon, you mean ’ is rendered as a straight apostrophe?
20110711 21:01:25< Espreon> Yes.
20110711 21:01:58< mordante> Sytyi, yes parallel with the config parsing itself
20110711 21:02:48< mordante> Espreon, do you know how the small apostrophe is supposed to look with our font face?
20110711 21:03:17< Espreon> Hmmm? Shouldn't it just be the same character, but smaller?
20110711 21:03:27< Espreon> Are you insisting that the problem lies in the font?
20110711 21:04:14< mordante> insisting is a strong word, just wondering whether it is the font
20110711 21:06:17< Sytyi> mordante: paralel? Yes, and second solution is smth like that. Maybe I can not explain it correct. When new tag arrivess - the level of "nesting" increases,validating if tag is allowed here and count of tags, when tag is closing - validating the list of keys, and decreasing level of "nesting"
20110711 21:06:22< Espreon> mordante: Well, I have no idea.
20110711 21:12:48< tschmitz> gabba: I'm rethinking the way I disabled undo
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20110711 21:13:16< mordante> Espreon, if I use a 8 pt font in open office it also looks straight
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20110711 21:13:32< mordante> Sytyi, ok
20110711 21:13:39< mordante> Sytyi, I think that's the best approach
20110711 21:13:45< gabba> tschmitz: I saw that up to now you flushed the undo stack, I'm not sure at what moments
20110711 21:13:54< Sytyi> mordante: So the second one. I also think this way.
20110711 21:13:54< tschmitz> gabba: Originally, I decided to make it so that as long as the whiteboard->is_active(), there would be no undoable actions
20110711 21:13:55< mordante> especially since you need to know the context
20110711 21:14:02< mordante> Sytyi, yes
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20110711 21:14:44< Sytyi> mordante: I specially went to the forest today and were there until created two different solutions :-)
20110711 21:14:51< Espreon> mordante: I guess I should bitch the the DejaVu Sans people... even though nothing will probably happen.
20110711 21:14:53< tschmitz> gabba: by "flushing" when the whiteboard turns on, and also when executing actions via Y, to preserve the nothing-is-undoable "invariant"
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20110711 21:15:09< mordante> Sytyi, :-)
20110711 21:15:35< mordante> Espreon, probably at least it will be complaining at the proper place
20110711 21:16:07< Espreon> True.
20110711 21:16:15< Sytyi> mordante: SO I begin to code. Hope to have smth working in two - three days :-)
20110711 21:16:19< tschmitz> gabba: Unfortunately, as it turns out, it's possible to activate the whiteboard during the process of undoing an action
20110711 21:16:23< Espreon> mordante: Would you please run the WesCamp upload script?
20110711 21:16:58< Sytyi> mordante: When any time - check please new patch https://gna.org/patch/?2785 .
20110711 21:17:04< tschmitz> gabba: Which means that with the current setup, the whiteboard sweeps out all the undo information while the undo() function is trying to read that information
20110711 21:17:05< gabba> tschmitz: damn, the result of that must be pretty weird
20110711 21:17:16< tschmitz> gabba: Basically just an assertion failure
20110711 21:17:30< tschmitz> gabba: or access violation
20110711 21:17:40< tschmitz> gabba: Since the data has been cleared away
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20110711 21:18:14< mordante> Espreon, running
20110711 21:18:27< tschmitz> gabba: so I coded up this complicated fix for that involving blocking the whiteboard for the durations of the undo() and redo() functions
20110711 21:18:30< mordante> Sytyi, ok filling out the evaluation now
20110711 21:18:41< Sytyi> mordante: :-)
20110711 21:18:44< tschmitz> gabba: I think there's probably a simpler way though ...
20110711 21:19:16< zookeeper> anonymissimus, it's just a bug in the logic used, not an implementation bug
20110711 21:19:32< gabba> tschmitz: On a related note, I'm not 100% sure yet, but I was thinking that we could have more fine-grained control of undo disabling, and basically only disactivate it if you're in a multiplayer match with allies and you've left the plan-sharing enabled
20110711 21:19:38< gabba> more complexity, I know
20110711 21:20:26< mordante> Sytyi, which timezone are you exactly in?
20110711 21:20:34< tschmitz> gabba: So you'd rather attempt to only disable undo when "strictly" necessary?
20110711 21:21:04< Espreon> mordante: Thank you.
20110711 21:21:36< gabba> I'm still hesitant since I want the experience to be consistant across all game modes, but then I don't see a reason for taking away a feature from players when it's not needed
20110711 21:22:27< gabba> err, read: for taking away a good feature with no good reason
20110711 21:23:33< tschmitz> gabba: OK so in that case, you've given a logical reason for connecting the undo-disabling with the network-related code
20110711 21:23:49< gabba> Yeah
20110711 21:23:50< tschmitz> gabba: I think that would be a good place to put the undo-disabling code, in that case.
20110711 21:24:41< tschmitz> gabba: That was my original idea, but I dismissed it thinking that the two were not logically related enough
20110711 21:24:41< tschmitz> gabba: Perhaps I'll code that up right now, then
20110711 21:24:42< tschmitz> that is what I'm working on now, btw
20110711 21:26:27< gabba> Then we can put a checkbox somewhere: [] Share plans with allies (disables undo), that's enabled by default in network games with allies
20110711 21:27:24< tschmitz> gabba: Ahh ... yeah, I guess we can do that, too.
20110711 21:29:05< mordante> Sytyi, btw what is the status of the other patches you submitted, shall I keep them open or can I close them?
20110711 21:29:34< gabba> tschmitz: Regarding blocking whiteboard activation, I did have to block it in several other cases (such as when the game is over but you're still looking at the map), so maybe try to make a mini-framework for blocking whiteboard activation, and use it for your case and all already existing ones?
20110711 21:29:34< Sytyi> mordante: I think we will continue work with Schema Example
20110711 21:29:52< Sytyi> mordante: about timezone EEST now.
20110711 21:30:04< mordante> and thats GMT+?
20110711 21:30:16< tschmitz> gabba: I added a scoped whiteboard blocker
20110711 21:30:18< Sytyi> mordante: GMT +3 in summer
20110711 21:30:26< tschmitz> gabba: when I was coding up that fix I mentioned earlier
20110711 21:31:06< gabba> sounds good
20110711 21:31:17< mordante> ok good, then I filled in that field properly
20110711 21:31:24< tschmitz> gabba: If you want to take a look at that patch and see if you think it's valuable at all ... ?
20110711 21:31:31< tschmitz> gabba: I'll just send it to you
20110711 21:32:44< gabba> The idea sounds ok, so just commit and I'll look at it while I work my way down the list
20110711 21:34:14< tschmitz> gabba: Eh, well, I emailed you the patch; I didn't really make sure it's polished or anything since I was planning to scrap it anyway
20110711 21:35:03< tschmitz> gabba: I'm going to work on clearing the undo stack when sending network data; does that sound good?
20110711 21:35:07< gabba> tschmitz: ok, taking a quick look then
20110711 21:35:52< tschmitz> gabba: heads up, I also rewrote your set_active() and set_inverted_behavior()
20110711 21:37:27< gabba> "I'm going to work on clearing the undo stack when sending network data; does that sound good?" -> if you clear it literaly only when sending network data, can that cause the player to have access to undo for a short time and then lose it?
20110711 21:37:37< mordante> Sytyi, the function has_tag has an odd signature
20110711 21:37:55< mordante> in general has_xxx is_xxx functions should return a boolean
20110711 21:38:41< tschmitz> gabba: I haven't decided precisely where the code will go yet; I'll keep that possibility in mind when choosing
20110711 21:40:55< gabba> tschmitz: "activation_blockage_" -> i'm pretty sure "blockage" is not an english word
20110711 21:41:33< gabba> Espreon? ^
20110711 21:41:37< timotei> :))
20110711 21:41:39< Espreon> I beg to differ.
20110711 21:41:44< mordante> gabba, my dictionary knows it
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20110711 21:42:19< gabba> hmm, it sounded too much like French I guess
20110711 21:42:41< timotei> gabba: blocage should be on frecnh :P
20110711 21:42:45< mordante> I leave that one for Espreon ;-)
20110711 21:42:57< timotei> french*
20110711 21:42:59< Espreon> Well, it's not really English, but it's used in English.
20110711 21:43:09< Espreon> So, yeah.
20110711 21:43:33< gabba> Yeah, I wasn't really asking if it's a "pure bred" word :P
20110711 21:43:59< Espreon> All you need to know is that it's used in English.
20110711 21:44:02< gabba> Lots of fuss for a variable name
20110711 21:44:05< timotei> gabba: what would be the definition of a "pure bred" word?
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20110711 21:44:12< tschmitz> So Espreon has my back in claiming that the word "blockage" exists =]
20110711 21:44:16< timotei> one that was used in the old times? :P
20110711 21:44:23< timotei> like the Old Englisch?
20110711 21:45:18< Espreon> *Englisc
20110711 21:46:16< gabba> timotei, I guess, but notice the ":P" next to my sentence ;)
20110711 21:47:22< Espreon> timotei: Well, not necessarily.
20110711 21:48:02< Sytyi> mordante: How it would be better to name that methods ?
20110711 21:49:26< gabba> tschmitz: you know, I suddenly wonder if we shouldn't reuse something with a reference count like shared pointers to implement the "reference counting" in increment/decrement_blockage
20110711 21:49:37< mordante> get_key or find_key, where I personally like the find better, since find implicates the item might not be there
20110711 21:49:51< tschmitz> gabba: I thought of that too, but I don't really know
20110711 21:50:09< Espreon> mordante: Is the script still running?
20110711 21:50:13< gabba> After all they've already thought through common pitfalls when doing that kind of stuff...
20110711 21:50:14< tschmitz> gabba: I mean, I suppose it could be implemented by a shared_ptr with a custom deleter
20110711 21:50:25< gabba> tschmitz: just an idea though, nothing urgent or important
20110711 21:50:27< mordante> Espreon, no just finished
20110711 21:50:32< Espreon> Meh...
20110711 21:50:50< mordante> Sytyi, also wonder about this name find_tag_non_const, the non_const part
20110711 21:50:54< mordante> Espreon, ?
20110711 21:51:12< Sytyi> mordante: that method is const.
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20110711 21:51:43< mordante> no it's not, it's a non const function
20110711 21:52:12< mordante> but C++ allows functions with the same name and only differ in const attribute
20110711 21:52:14< Sytyi> mordante: sorry. there is a const class_tag * find_tag const
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20110711 21:52:36< mordante> (attribute is not the proper c++ name)
20110711 21:53:07< Sytyi> and I can just write class_tag * find_tag()?
20110711 21:53:08< gabba> tschmitz: Please use the logger properly instead of printing debug info to the chat
20110711 21:53:20< Sytyi> mordante: and make it private ?
20110711 21:53:35< tschmitz> gabba: I don't know how to read the log
20110711 21:53:55< tschmitz> gabba: I.e. I don't know how to use the logger properly
20110711 21:53:57< mordante> Sytyi, yes find_tag is fine, if not needed public then private
20110711 21:54:03< tschmitz> gabba: I do I use the logger properly?
20110711 21:54:18< mordante> Sytyi, http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/basic_string/operator_at has an example of a const and non-const function
20110711 21:54:33< tschmitz> gabba: There was supposed to be a "How" at the beginning of that sentence
20110711 21:54:34< Sytyi> mordante: thanks.
20110711 21:54:40< gabba> tschmitz: in the code it should be pretty obvious I think;
20110711 21:54:48< mordante> Sytyi, and in fact those functions don't need to behave the same as well... which they don't do in fact
20110711 21:54:53< gabba> tschmitz: to activate various logging levels you pass arguments to wesnoth
20110711 21:54:59< mordante> at least not in C++03
20110711 21:55:10< tschmitz> gabba: Which args?
20110711 21:55:14< gabba> tschmitz: you can do "wesnoth --help" for the details but,
20110711 21:55:18< Sytyi> mordante: I see.
20110711 21:55:30< tschmitz> gabba: I'll try that
20110711 21:56:33< tschmitz> gabba: wesnoth --help didn't say anything to me
20110711 21:56:50< mordante> Sytyi, I will look in the design itself later
20110711 21:56:59< Sytyi> mordante: OK.
20110711 21:57:01< mordante> Sytyi, do you have questions at the moment?
20110711 21:57:07< Sytyi> no. Thanks
20110711 21:57:11< gabba> as an example, use "wesnoth --log-debug=whiteboard", which will then print to standard error everything down to debug level I send throught the *_WB macros
20110711 21:57:55< gabba> tschmitz: get someone to help you about wesnoth command line params under windows, then
20110711 21:58:03< mordante> I'm off night
20110711 21:58:11< gabba> night mordante
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20110711 21:58:24< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r50272 /trunk/data/core/units/humans/Horseman.cfg:
20110711 21:58:24< CIA-85> removed leftover old animations
20110711 21:58:24< CIA-85> fix for wmlscope messages
20110711 21:59:47< gabba> tschmitz: here's the output of --help for me: http://pastebin.com/eJHqXfFz
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20110711 22:01:05< tschmitz> hah check this out http://linux.die.net/man/6/wesnoth
20110711 22:02:20< happygrue> hello all
20110711 22:03:09< gabba> tschmitz: btw the patch you emailed me looks fine
20110711 22:03:13< gabba> hi happygrue
20110711 22:03:39< timotei> tschmitz: the info is dumped in stdout.txt :P
20110711 22:03:46< timotei> tschmitz: when invoking --help
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20110711 22:06:15< gabba> timotei: so maybe the log results end up in stderr.txt
20110711 22:06:36< gabba> err sorry timotei, meant tschmitz
20110711 22:07:22< tschmitz> I see, yeah it looks like it does
20110711 22:07:24< tschmitz> OK
20110711 22:07:51< timotei> afair only --help uses stdout
20110711 22:07:55< timotei> the rest uses stderr
20110711 22:08:56< tschmitz> gabba, timotei: still not sure how I could use the log interactively while playing, though
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20110711 22:09:10< tschmitz> Does VC9 print the stderr somewhere while debugging?
20110711 22:09:10< gabba> it's probably just as well it dumps standard error to file, since spamming the windows "console" would lag the game like hell
20110711 22:09:11< timotei> tschmitz: it's not "interactively"
20110711 22:09:15< timotei> you just dump stuff
20110711 22:09:19< timotei> and it writes to stderr
20110711 22:09:34< gabba> timotei: no, tschmitz means to get instant feedback
20110711 22:09:36< timotei> if you open the stderr in notepad++ for e.g., it will tell you that the file has modified
20110711 22:09:41< timotei> ah
20110711 22:09:45< timotei> if you are in debug
20110711 22:09:51< timotei> it will print it in the console :P
20110711 22:09:56< timotei> depends on the build
20110711 22:10:03< timotei> I think anonymissimus set the debug build to use console
20110711 22:10:07< timotei> instead of stderr/stdout
20110711 22:10:29< gabba> tschmitz: if you really want to spam to chat, then ensure it only does it once you activate a command within wesnoth, and make sure it also prints to log so we can easily share debug output/history
20110711 22:11:36< anonymissimus> timotei: i didnt
20110711 22:11:45< timotei> ok :P
20110711 22:11:54< anonymissimus> and it doesnt for me
20110711 22:12:15< anonymissimus> in fast debug in launches the console annoyingly, btu not in debug
20110711 22:12:31< timotei> ah. in fast debug then
20110711 22:12:36< tschmitz> anonymissimus: Yeah that's what I noticed
20110711 22:12:52< timotei> I don't like the console either :P
20110711 22:13:00< anonymissimus> fast debug does hardly get you anything unfprtunately
20110711 22:13:01< tschmitz> but fast debug didn't seem to build wesnothd, so I needed normal debug
20110711 22:13:03< tschmitz> or something
20110711 22:13:38< tschmitz> What's so annoying about the console?
20110711 22:13:38< tschmitz> I love debug statements
20110711 22:14:15< timotei> for me it's annoying because the copy-paste from console doesn't work so well in windows
20110711 22:14:21< anonymissimus> well I like to have it in the file stderr.txt
20110711 22:14:21< timotei> unless I use my cygwin bash session
20110711 22:14:22< timotei> :)
20110711 22:14:24< tschmitz> timotei: That is very true
20110711 22:14:25< timotei> yeah
20110711 22:14:36< gabba> tschmitz: maybe you can use a log viewer on stderr.txt: http://superuser.com/questions/153/log-viewer-on-windows, for example this one says it's a log monitor, so it should auto-update when the file changes I think: http://logview4net.com/
20110711 22:14:47< timotei> ahhhh
20110711 22:14:53< timotei> no need to complicate with that :P
20110711 22:14:56< timotei> just open it in notepad++
20110711 22:14:59< timotei> or even visual studio
20110711 22:15:04< timotei> and you'll be notified when it changes
20110711 22:15:07< timotei> :P
20110711 22:15:14< gabba> notepad++ you have to refresh constantly, I hate that personally
20110711 22:15:17< timotei> or use tail -f
20110711 22:15:18< timotei> :))
20110711 22:15:32< gabba> tail exists on windows??
20110711 22:16:19< timotei> yes
20110711 22:16:20< timotei> :)
20110711 22:16:20< timotei> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuwin32/files/coreutils/5.3.0/coreutils-5.3.0.exe/download
20110711 22:16:35< timotei> gabba: I've transformed part of my windows into a linux-like machine
20110711 22:16:46< gabba> cygwin et al don't count :P
20110711 22:16:46< timotei> and I haven't discovered since that any need to use linux aymore :P
20110711 22:16:56< timotei> that's not cygwin anyway
20110711 22:17:05< timotei> and why wouldn't they count?
20110711 22:17:09< timotei> tschmitz: you can install that
20110711 22:17:14< timotei> into your system32 let's say
20110711 22:17:15< timotei> :)
20110711 22:17:31< timotei> or the cleaner way, add it to a place, and add that directory to path
20110711 22:17:34< timotei> that's what I did
20110711 22:17:37< tschmitz> timotei: git appears to come with a command called tail
20110711 22:17:42< timotei> yeah
20110711 22:17:42< timotei> :)_
20110711 22:17:45< timotei> it has it too
20110711 22:17:53< timotei> since it uses a cygwin shell in the background iirc
20110711 22:18:10< gabba> timotei: well, the console still sucks, from what I remember even the cygwin console is pretty bad (copy with Enter? What?)
20110711 22:18:20< timotei> aa
20110711 22:18:22< timotei> no :D
20110711 22:18:33< tschmitz> it's inherited from the windows cmd.exe
20110711 22:18:43< timotei> I use another utility
20110711 22:18:46< timotei> called console.exe
20110711 22:18:46< timotei> :D
20110711 22:18:58< gabba> timotei: interesting
20110711 22:18:59< timotei> and I can select stuff with SHIFT+Click
20110711 22:19:02< timotei> :P
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20110711 22:19:08< timotei> just like in linux
20110711 22:19:17< tschmitz> I don't think the copy psting thing will bother me much
20110711 22:19:45< tschmitz> I can just open the file in notepad or something
20110711 22:20:00< gabba> tschmitz: yeah, for your current needs stick to what's simple and works
20110711 22:20:20< gabba> Trying new tools uses precious time
20110711 22:20:45< tschmitz> yeah it really does ...
20110711 22:20:51< gabba> But this reminded me how much I hate trying to use the windows console after spending a few hours linux
20110711 22:21:14< gabba> timotei: do you get Ctrl+r reverse history search and editing under Cygwin?
20110711 22:21:33< anonymissimus> zookeeper: unfortunately, lessluck era uses unit variables at toplevel which do no lonegr work, and theres such a lot of them; one more point against updating
20110711 22:22:41< gabba> tschmitz: Even though, if you're still using notepad, definitely download Notepad++ - instant upgrade with no learning curve unless you look into the fancy stuff it can do
20110711 22:23:34< tschmitz> gabba: Perhaps I will later
20110711 22:23:41< tschmitz> for now, visual studio is working as my text editor for code
20110711 22:24:06< tschmitz> and for not adding crlf like notepad does
20110711 22:24:30< anonymissimus> VS is fine for C++, btu only for that^^
20110711 22:25:04< timotei> gabba: it works just like a linux console
20110711 22:25:14< anonymissimus> i have a specific editor for almost every type of language or file
20110711 22:25:19< timotei> including SHIFT+Up/Down PGup/PGDown
20110711 22:25:23< timotei> for scrolling :>
20110711 22:26:10< timotei> anonymissimus: really?:P why not use notepad++?
20110711 22:26:21< timotei> anonymissimus: http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/
20110711 22:26:26< timotei> anonymissimus: you might be interested
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20110711 22:27:13< anonymissimus> i want so excited about notepad++
20110711 22:27:26< anonymissimus> used it for wml until I foudn my way with the emacs mode
20110711 22:27:32< tschmitz> gabba: OK, I have failed to remember exactly why I wanted to associate the undo-disabling code with the network-sending code
20110711 22:27:38< timotei> :P
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20110711 22:28:09< tschmitz> gabba: since making an undoable move does not involve any network-sending
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20110711 22:32:47< gabba> tschmitz: brb
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20110711 22:50:24< gabba> tschmitz: back, btw
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20110711 23:08:18< zookeeper> anonymissimus, well, maybe i'll rewrite it properly one day
20110711 23:14:38< gabba> tschmitz: about your email question "In the code that handles undo and redo ... when you undo a move action, the "undo_action" object is transferred from the undo list to the redo list *after* the move animation completes rather than before it starts"
20110711 23:14:49< gabba> "I was thinking about changing that so that it happens before the move animation starts"
20110711 23:15:20< gabba> tschmitz: it all depends on what can happen while the move animation completes
20110711 23:15:55< gabba> presumably, the move can be interrupted by a hidden unit or a wml event
20110711 23:17:35< gabba> tschmitz: so basically don't create an undo_action object before all such conditions have been checked - of course this is my answer without looking at the code, to take with a grain of salt
20110711 23:18:20< tschmitz> gabba: Can you reword that? I didn't quite understand
20110711 23:18:27< tschmitz> gabba: Who's creating an undo_action object?
20110711 23:18:40< tschmitz> gabba: Which conditions are being checked?
20110711 23:19:07< gabba> wait, maybe *I* misred something
20110711 23:19:47< gabba> tschmitz: hmm ok, never mind - when you undo a move it can't be interrupted by anything
20110711 23:20:32< gabba> I don't see a problem with changing the order in which things are done as you suggested, then
20110711 23:22:14< tschmitz> gabba: That seems like one option for closing that weird loophole, yeah?
20110711 23:22:33< tschmitz> gabba: Although it would also require me to un-optimize the code slightly
20110711 23:22:45< gabba> which loophole again?
20110711 23:23:21< tschmitz> gabba: Activating the whiteboard (which currently clears undo_stack) while an undo is in progress
20110711 23:23:41< gabba> ok that one
20110711 23:23:56< tschmitz> gabba: since the undo_action object is still referenced after the un-move animation completes, I would have to make a copy of the undo_action object before the move starts
20110711 23:24:08< tschmitz> gabba: Instead of directly referencing the existing one
20110711 23:24:57< tschmitz> gabba: or, alternatively, I could move *all* references to the undo_action object to happen prior to the un-move animation, but I haven't explored that possibility yet
20110711 23:25:46< gabba> Don't worry about optimization in this case, a temp copy of the undo_action object isn't something to worry about
20110711 23:26:16< gabba> where's the code you intend to modify?
20110711 23:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 224 bugs, 320 feature requests, 30 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110711 23:27:38< tschmitz> gabba: menu_events::undo()
20110711 23:27:45< tschmitz> gabba: and redo()
20110711 23:28:40< tschmitz> gabba: near the bottom of each, it has redo_stack->push_back(action) followed by undo_stack->pop_back()
20110711 23:29:05< tschmitz> where "action" is a reference to undo_stack->back()
20110711 23:29:30< tschmitz> so basically I would move those two lines near the top and make "action" a copy instead of a reference
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20110711 23:32:21< gabba> well, I don't see any refence to "action" (the undo_action) between unit_display::move_unit and redo_stack->push_back(action);
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20110711 23:33:26< gabba> tschmitz: so you could move redo_stack->push_back(action); before unit_display::move_unit, in the menu_events::undo function
20110711 23:34:01< gabba> you'll have to store action.starting_dir in a temp variable, but that's about it I think
20110711 23:34:02< tschmitz> gabba: yeah but there are references to the internals of action
20110711 23:34:19< tschmitz> gabba: as I recall
20110711 23:34:49< gabba> can you look at it now with me?
20110711 23:35:09< gabba> I see references to the unit but not to action
20110711 23:36:18< gabba> tschmitz: ok there's action.waypoints also
20110711 23:36:42< tschmitz> yeah I was gonna say that one
20110711 23:37:02< tschmitz> gabba: In any case, I found that something broke when I didn't copy the action object
20110711 23:37:22< tschmitz> gabba: The move never got sent to my ally
20110711 23:37:30< tschmitz> gabba: even after I ended my turn
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20110711 23:41:19< tschmitz> gabba: action.countdown_time_bonus and action.route
20110711 23:41:26< tschmitz> gabba: in redo
20110711 23:42:21< tschmitz> gabba: redo() does more than undo, presumably because it has to make sure that the move gets synced across the network later
20110711 23:42:32< tschmitz> ie. add it to the replay
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20110711 23:43:56< gabba> tschmitz: ok, after browsing to the code in undo it seems making a copy of the action, and why not doing an undo_stack->pop_back() right after the copy won't change anything
20110711 23:44:30< tschmitz> gabba: Did you look at redo as well?
20110711 23:45:11< gabba> To summarize, what you want is to remove any references to the undo stack after the move animation is called, so that it can be flushed by the whiteboard at any time during that animation, right? So it should work
20110711 23:45:18< gabba> Looking at redo
20110711 23:45:54< tschmitz> gabba: and finally, should we just add a check to see if we have networked allies or not? And only clear if we do?
20110711 23:46:20< gabba> tschmitz: yes, I think it's the best approach for now
20110711 23:47:12< gabba> but you need an extra boolean in the check so the player can actually disable sending of plans to allies
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20110711 23:48:22< gabba> We'll need to whip up an easy-to-access Whiteboard options window after the midterm, for that option and future ones
20110711 23:48:40< tschmitz> gabba: OK
20110711 23:50:17< gabba> no extra references to the redo (or undo) stacks in the redo method body, so a copy and immediate pop_back should be fine there as well
20110711 23:51:29< gabba> tschmitz: I imagine that undo_action is a readily copyable object with a proper copy constructor, you need to check that
20110711 23:52:26< tschmitz> gabba: I suppose, but it *does* get copied during the move between undo_stack and redo_stack
20110711 23:52:29< gabba> Anyways the push_back at the end of undo/redo methods does a copy, isn't it?
20110711 23:52:37< tschmitz> gabba: aye
20110711 23:52:39< gabba> yeah, getting rusty with my stl stuff
20110711 23:53:24< gabba> so, no objections here then
--- Log closed Tue Jul 12 00:00:53 2011