--- Log opened Sun Jul 10 00:00:08 2011
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20110710 00:44:31< WhiteMage> Hello. This is my first time here. Does anyone read this?
20110710 00:47:54< shadowm_laptop> no
20110710 00:48:22< WhiteMage> where do I ask questions in real time?
20110710 00:49:24< shadowm_laptop> this is the best place when the people with whom you want to talk are around
20110710 00:50:01< WhiteMage> maybe you can answer me, shall I?
20110710 00:54:25< shadowm_laptop> not really. I'm lagging right now.
20110710 00:54:45< Tomsik> Don't be a jerk, shadowmaster
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20110710 00:55:09< Tomsik> WhiteMage: it just depends, many people people here are just idling around
20110710 00:55:20< WhiteMage> I am not
20110710 00:55:33< Tomsik> Well yes, but many of the other 53 people are
20110710 00:55:37< WhiteMage> I have q's and I think this maybe best place to ask
20110710 00:55:47< Tomsik> It's just best to ask the question
20110710 00:55:56< WhiteMage> ok
20110710 00:56:12< Tomsik> if there's someone they'll answer, if not they can see it later and then answer
20110710 00:56:43< WhiteMage> Does Wesnoth have a donation link and donation procedure setup?
20110710 00:57:48< shadowmaster> Tomsik: I'm not being a jerk.
20110710 00:58:11< shadowmaster> WhiteMage: no.
20110710 00:58:32< WhiteMage> oh, ok :(
20110710 00:58:53< WhiteMage> maybe there should be as I think ppl would possibly contribute
20110710 00:59:12< WhiteMage> but it explains why I did not find it
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20110710 00:59:12< shadowmaster> The administrative leads decided not ot accept donations.
20110710 00:59:16< shadowmaster> *not to
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20110710 01:00:29< WhiteMage> wow. why? problems with it? or trying to maintain independence?
20110710 01:01:21< shadowmaster> If I recall correctly, part of the reason was that there was no proper method to administrate donations besides Dave's own account; the other part is that donations are simply not required.
20110710 01:01:55< shadowmaster> Apparently our income is more than enough to support Wesnoth.org.
20110710 01:02:38< WhiteMage> ok, so regarding the income part, could you please explain how the money was obtained and where is it pouring from?
20110710 01:03:21< shadowmaster> Ads in the website, Google Summer of Code and appstore sales.
20110710 01:03:34< shadowmaster> I guess only the latter two really matter.
20110710 01:05:05< WhiteMage> ok, the ads are only on the web site and not in the game (luckily)
20110710 01:05:32< WhiteMage> Google Summer if I understand is programmers coding Wesnoth and get Google credit for it.
20110710 01:05:36< shadowmaster> The idea of in-MP-server ads was discussed at one point. :)
20110710 01:05:41< WhiteMage> Am I right so far?
20110710 01:06:18< shadowmaster> GSoC is sponsored by Google; Google pays the students, the mentors and the mentoring organizations.
20110710 01:07:45< WhiteMage> ok, please explain appstore sales. people buying Wesnoth game for mobile devices?
20110710 01:09:01< shadowmaster> iPod, iPhone and iPad, yes.
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20110710 01:09:26< WhiteMage> so I can play Wesnoth for free on a PC or Mac, but not on a mobile device, correct?
20110710 01:09:27< shadowmaster> Wesnoth receives a percentage from Kyle's sales.
20110710 01:09:56< shadowmaster> you could play for free on one of those devices provided you could jailbreak your device and compile the iOS port sources (which may or may not be outdated) for it
20110710 01:10:50< WhiteMage> What is Kyle's sales?
20110710 01:11:11< shadowmaster> I guess you had not heard of the iOS ports before.
20110710 01:11:20< WhiteMage> sorry, no
20110710 01:11:41< shadowmaster> That's strange, they were a very hot topic in the forums last year . :)
20110710 01:12:02< shadowmaster> either way, Kyle Poole maintains the port and the appstore entries.
20110710 01:12:06< WhiteMage> oh, I only joined less than a year ago and did not read all posts
20110710 01:12:35< WhiteMage> and never played on a mobile
20110710 01:12:37< shadowmaster> hm, your nickname sounded like an oldtimer's.
20110710 01:13:00< WhiteMage> well, I made some posts though
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20110710 01:13:09< WhiteMage> as I like to contribute
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20110710 01:17:29< WhiteMage> so the income is still mainly from people buying Wesnoth for mobile Apps, right?
20110710 01:17:47< Gambit> You can donate via flattr
20110710 01:17:53< shadowmaster> I don't know the exact figures, for that you'd have to ask noy or Dave.
20110710 01:18:10< shadowmaster> and yeah, I forgot about flattr, mainly because it's a micropayment platform.
20110710 01:18:40 * Gambit shrugs
20110710 01:19:08< WhiteMage> people who play Wesnoth on mobile pay only once for a download or pay more if they play more?
20110710 01:19:11< Gambit> Its microness is a function of your donation amount and the number of people you flattr :P
20110710 01:19:20< shadowmaster> Gambit: believe it or not, that piece of crap we dub wesnoth.org costs a lot.[citation needed] 
20110710 01:19:28< Gambit> It's a one time fee as far as I know.
20110710 01:19:59< Gambit> shadowmaster: Oh I bet it's a good machine. There's just too much stuff on it. [moar citations pl0x]
20110710 01:23:43< WhiteMage> Ok, I just read flattr. So people sign up there and pay money, then designate which web site receive it, correct?
20110710 01:23:53< Gambit> They designate a monthly amount.
20110710 01:23:57< Gambit> And then they flattr a bunch of people.
20110710 01:24:04< Gambit> Each person gets an equal piece of their monthly amount.
20110710 01:24:29< WhiteMage> so it goes to people not to web sites?
20110710 01:24:39< Gambit> whoever the account holder is
20110710 01:25:05< WhiteMage> bank account? Flattr account?
20110710 01:25:13< Gambit> both
20110710 01:25:33< WhiteMage> so the receiver can just take it out when there is money there?
20110710 01:26:09< Gambit> I guess.
20110710 01:26:20< WhiteMage> and in this case that is Dave?
20110710 01:26:30< Gambit> I don't know.
20110710 01:27:04< WhiteMage> do all countries allow this to be used? both send and receive money?
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20110710 01:28:39< shadowmaster> The flatter account holder should be Rhonda IIRC.
20110710 01:28:46< shadowmaster> flattr.
20110710 01:29:49< shadowmaster> as for the last pair of questions, I guess flattr's website can answer that more quickly than us clueless people.
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20110710 01:30:10< shadowmaster> I'm at a loss when it comes to money management myself.
20110710 01:30:28< shadowmaster> All I do is hoard it continuously.
20110710 01:32:03< WhiteMage> and you have so many admins and programmers. do they all work for "free" (hobby)? +Google Summer
20110710 01:32:04< joo> That's kinder to the world than people who use their money to get even more money for doing nothing.
20110710 01:32:36< shadowmaster> WhiteMage: we all work for free, yes.
20110710 01:32:45< Gambit> shadowmaster: you should be creating jobs!
20110710 01:33:59< WhiteMage> wow I am officially impressed
20110710 01:35:17< WhiteMage> but I suppose that most admins and developers are in the developed world, so money is not a problem for them
20110710 01:36:35< shadowmaster> well... everyone except one developer is from North America, Canada or Europe.
20110710 01:36:55< joo> Where is the one developer from?
20110710 01:37:12< Gambit> Secret moon base.
20110710 01:37:13< shadowmaster> Some place at the end of the world. I always forget its name.
20110710 01:37:19< joo> Antarctica?
20110710 01:37:23< Gambit> shadowmaster: New Jersey.
20110710 01:37:29< Gambit> For sure that sounds like it.
20110710 01:37:31< shadowmaster> It's probably unimportant anyway; it doesn't even appear in the amaps.
20110710 01:37:39< Gambit> Definitely New Jersey.
20110710 01:37:42< joo> North Korea?
20110710 01:37:58< shadowmaster> No, that would be an important place.
20110710 01:38:40< WhiteMage> regarding history of Wesnot: so Dave programmed a version first, which was recignized and publicized and then players started to volunteer to help, right?
20110710 01:38:53< joo> On Google maps, North Korea is completely blank.
20110710 01:39:26< shadowmaster> WhiteMage: yes, and I reviewed it here! http://shadowm.rewound.net/blog/archives/60-Wesnoth-Evolution-0.1.html
20110710 01:39:28< joo> Well, there are satellite images, but no roads.
20110710 01:39:55< shadowmaster> I reviewed its two immediate successors too, give those articles a read when you have time! http://shadowm.rewound.net/articles.php
20110710 01:39:59< shadowmaster> </gambitmode>
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20110710 01:40:06< joo> And the satellite images don't go in very far.
20110710 01:41:23< WhiteMage> thank you
20110710 01:42:18< WhiteMage> I like Wesnoth and I already contributed and will continue to do so
20110710 01:44:15< WhiteMage> however, I and a select group of people have other game development ideas too. The development has started but is very slow. How do we get more, similar manpower as yours in Wesnoth?
20110710 01:45:04< shadowmaster> ah, a question for which I don't have an answer.
20110710 01:45:17< WhiteMage> what we have is only idea contributors, we need more programmers
20110710 01:45:35< WhiteMage> so we have to develop 1.0 first and get famous?
20110710 01:45:39< shadowmaster> I guess Wesnoth's success basically stems from Dave's tech-demo of sorts; 0.1 was already very functional.
20110710 01:46:39< shadowmaster> by word of mouth it got a dedicated artist which was stable for most of the 0.x series
20110710 01:48:26< WhiteMage> I would feel bad advertising on Wesnoth since I do not want to draw away manpower from this great project, but in case someone has ideas, please email me
20110710 01:49:16< shadowmaster> I don't think our contributors are drawn away so easily :]
20110710 01:49:48< WhiteMage> I would not even want to try
20110710 01:49:50< shadowmaster> in my own experience, though, you are unlikely to get much help if all you have at first is a bunch of ideas with no playable demo
20110710 01:50:19< shadowmaster> and I'll leave the IMOE part hanging because the story behind that is way too embarassing
20110710 01:51:40< WhiteMage> oh
20110710 01:52:13< WhiteMage> but at least we do not need 1.0, only 0.1, which sounds better
20110710 01:55:25< WhiteMage> another question: why was the idea of ladder/competitive Wesnoth rejected by developers?
20110710 01:56:17< shadowmaster> It's not rejected AFAIK, but they didn't want to maintain it as an official Wesnoth service.
20110710 01:56:51< shadowmaster> (that said, ladder matches seem to cause most of the fights in that forum I don't really watch.)
20110710 01:57:33< WhiteMage> so the unofficial ladder is basically done by someone else, since Wesnoth developers did not want to do it?
20110710 01:57:35< Gambit> WhiteMage: It causes lots of fights.
20110710 01:57:47< Gambit> People take the video game, too seriously.
20110710 01:58:05< WhiteMage> I know, I am part of last week's fireworks there
20110710 01:58:38< shadowmaster> I'm not the best person to ask about MP matters. I think that territory is too muddy and perilous to tread on.
20110710 02:00:49< WhiteMage> I found Wesnoth becasue there was no challenging turn based strategy Video game out there 
20110710 02:01:26< WhiteMage> Basically all AI's are bad for commercial tbs games (except chess, which I played for 35 years)
20110710 02:01:45< WhiteMage> Wesnoth AI should improve too, but campaigns are not that bad
20110710 02:02:03< WhiteMage> so next thing to do for me was to join ladder, but fight just broke out
20110710 02:02:30< WhiteMage> so what's next? develop my own game and wait if ladder is fixed here
20110710 02:02:42< WhiteMage> that's my story
20110710 02:03:23< Gambit> What's broken on the ladder?
20110710 02:04:08< WhiteMage> ladder has a rule: each player can have only 1 account. It is a precondition of registering
20110710 02:04:55< WhiteMage> last week it turned out that 4 of the top 5 players are multiple nick accounts and a load of more multiaccounts
20110710 02:06:03< WhiteMage> the problem is that they are defending their actions of cheating and the admins are not taking any actions due to being on vacation and not having a solution
20110710 02:07:03< WhiteMage> many ppl get emotional and use personal attacks instead of looking for a solution
20110710 02:07:35< shadowmaster> I think the ladder is fundamentally broken because this is the Internet.
20110710 02:08:13< WhiteMage> so if the ladder would be official and maintained by more people then it might work better
20110710 02:08:21< shadowmaster> You can fake names, email addresses, use proxies, VPSes or such to fake geographical locations. You can't do that in a RL sports competition because you have to be physically present there.
20110710 02:08:28< WhiteMage> well, online banking is internet too
20110710 02:08:34< WhiteMage> and online education
20110710 02:08:37< enchilado> Make people pay to register!
20110710 02:08:46< Tomsik> The problem is authorization
20110710 02:08:49< shadowmaster> WhiteMage: there's always a real life contact for those.
20110710 02:08:55< Tomsik> Banks either autorize you through signing a contract
20110710 02:08:57< WhiteMage> more people get graduate degrees online now than face to face
20110710 02:09:07< Tomsik> or are virtual
20110710 02:09:21< Tomsik> WhiteMage: I'm pretty sure they ask for ID
20110710 02:09:33< WhiteMage> yes
20110710 02:09:50< Tomsik> Wesnoth MP can't ask for ID
20110710 02:10:07< WhiteMage> for legal reasons?
20110710 02:10:43< shadowmaster> Legal matters aside, requiring more contact information for players would make registration in Wesnoth.org quite cumbersome and intimidating.
20110710 02:11:04< WhiteMage> even a volunteer based signup by at least real name + real location?
20110710 02:11:19< WhiteMage> and again, it's only for ladder, not for casual play
20110710 02:11:22< shadowmaster> How do you verify that?
20110710 02:11:26< WhiteMage> why not?
20110710 02:11:45< WhiteMage> well, first IP. I see your IP now
20110710 02:11:48< shadowmaster> I think that's not the answer I was expecting. :)
20110710 02:11:53< WhiteMage> and you are next door to me
20110710 02:12:01< shadowmaster> no, you don't see my IP, and if you saw it you'd be seeing a wrong IP.
20110710 02:12:04< WhiteMage> then a picture upload
20110710 02:12:53< shadowmaster> This IRC session runs from a VPS in the Netherlands. The terminal client endpoint is near Santiago, Chile.
20110710 02:13:02< WhiteMage> then an occasional tournament where people would show up locally
20110710 02:13:33< Tomsik> Uh
20110710 02:13:50< WhiteMage> so u r not in Washington DC shadow?
20110710 02:13:50< Tomsik> Do you realise that people playing wesnoth come from many different parts of the world?
20110710 02:14:08< shadowmaster> WhiteMage: no, neither endpoint is in the U.S. Where'd you get that from?
20110710 02:14:12< shadowmaster> :p
20110710 02:14:40< WhiteMage> simply clicked you name here
20110710 02:14:52< Tomsik> IPs mean nothing
20110710 02:15:04< shadowmaster> "wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster" is not a valid hostname and your client failed to realize that.
20110710 02:15:46< shadowmaster> so yeah, IPs are very useless for identifying unique people in the Internet thanks to dynamic ranges, servers, proxies and such.
20110710 02:16:46< WhiteMage> sure, but I thick there would be a percentage who's location can be at least confirmed that it is close to what they state
20110710 02:17:04< shadowmaster> and the rest can cheat.
20110710 02:17:13< WhiteMage> yes
20110710 02:17:24< shadowmaster> people using proxies to bypass MP bans are not unheard of.
20110710 02:17:28< WhiteMage> picture upload and occasional voice requirement for very competitive games
20110710 02:17:40< Tomsik> Uh, you can fake these
20110710 02:17:49< WhiteMage> perhaps webcam for money sponsored tournaments
20110710 02:17:50< Tomsik> Easily
20110710 02:17:55< Tomsik> Like, easier than photoshop
20110710 02:18:23< Tomsik> You could easily get your buddy to sit in front of webcam, if you lack technical skills
20110710 02:18:28< Gambit> Why does it matter though that I have 32 accounts?
20110710 02:18:52< shadowmaster> As you can see, the closer we get to a "true" solution the more cumbersome it becomes for casual ladder players *and* the people who have to administrate the ladder.
20110710 02:18:53< WhiteMage> then people being asked to play face to face if there are 2 in the same neighborhood
20110710 02:19:43< Tomsik> They're more of often far than they are not
20110710 02:19:48< WhiteMage> and then the players would get specific opponents to play appointed by ladder admins, so they can't play against themselves to improve rating
20110710 02:20:15< shadowmaster> Yep, poor admins.
20110710 02:20:23< Gambit> That's all up to the ladder folks though.
20110710 02:20:46< WhiteMage> I would be willing to be a ladder admin for 1
20110710 02:20:47< shadowmaster> If people really want it they can set up yet another unofficial ladder and see if they can live up to their desired security standards.
20110710 02:20:53< WhiteMage> and then there is skype
20110710 02:20:57< shadowmaster> Or cooperate with the current ladder admins.
20110710 02:21:15 * shadowmaster goes afk.
20110710 02:21:16< WhiteMage> I already offered that. Waiting for an answer
20110710 02:21:31< Tomsik> Well, make your own ladder and see how this works
20110710 02:21:37< Tomsik> DUI really
20110710 02:21:42< Tomsik> DIY*
20110710 02:22:36< WhiteMage> yes, that's whay I develop e new game too, not a new ladder to compete with the old ladder
20110710 02:24:04< WhiteMage> being on the internet today is the norm, not many things left what you can't do on the internet
20110710 02:24:36< WhiteMage> putting money into a tournament may help to clean up things a bit
20110710 02:24:52< WhiteMage> that's whay I asked how to donate
20110710 02:25:25< WhiteMage> but since Wesnoth does not really want donations, well too bad for 1
20110710 02:26:00< Gambit> the whole problem with the ladder is that it makes people take the game seriously
20110710 02:26:06< Gambit> I'm not sure involving money would fix that.
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20110710 02:26:39< WhiteMage> I don't see why taking it seriously necessarily bad
20110710 02:26:54< Tomsik> People get aggressive
20110710 02:26:59< WhiteMage> I took chess seriously when I played competitive
20110710 02:27:09< WhiteMage> is that bad?
20110710 02:27:26< WhiteMage> well ladder admins try to monitor that too
20110710 02:27:48< WhiteMage> each game has a sportsmanship report
20110710 02:27:57< Gambit> When you played chess, was it a large room full of anonymous people who could say nasty things about each other with out real world repurcussions?
20110710 02:28:15< WhiteMage> accounts with too many low scores don't get game easily
20110710 02:28:42< WhiteMage> face to face games in large rooms
20110710 02:28:59< WhiteMage> still many bad losers
20110710 02:29:30< WhiteMage> I did not personally know most of them, some did not speak common language with me
20110710 02:30:01< WhiteMage> but there is nothing wrong with chess, except it got boring at some point
20110710 02:30:25< WhiteMage> Wesnoth is like an improved chess to me
20110710 02:30:47< WhiteMage> taking away competition makes it nearly useless to me
20110710 02:31:12< WhiteMage> when I play I try to win, human or AI opp
20110710 02:31:44< WhiteMage> when I lose I never lost patience and never used bad behavior (I think)
20110710 02:32:11< WhiteMage> others can do that, I am OK with that, but will give them a low sporstmanship score
20110710 02:33:03< WhiteMage> Ever since I stopped playing chess I look for a substitute. 
20110710 02:33:21< WhiteMage> Commercial games are all bad and I bought score of them
20110710 02:34:04< WhiteMage> Wesnoth is the best I know, but without challenge is not good
20110710 02:34:22< WhiteMage> the other solution for Wesnoth would be improving AI
20110710 02:34:47< WhiteMage> but since the games are short, playing vs humans should be fine too
20110710 02:35:08< WhiteMage> playing nonladder MP is a 95% noob or quitter
20110710 02:36:35< WhiteMage> so if I can recommend something to Wesnoth developers is to 1. improve AI. 2. Make ladder official and try to clean it up. Otherwise the game is already pretty good.
20110710 02:36:57< Tomsik> 1. Is nontrivial, 2. As well
20110710 02:37:11< Tomsik> Though 1. Is probably more so
20110710 02:37:19< WhiteMage> ok, so let's talk about AI
20110710 02:37:27< WhiteMage> how many ppl work on AI?
20110710 02:37:47< Tomsik> How do you think AI should work?
20110710 02:38:02< Tomsik> I mean, have you though about it in at least vaguely precise way?
20110710 02:38:05< WhiteMage> well, before I answer that I want to see the picture
20110710 02:38:17< Tomsik> Well, I can't answer your question as I don't know
20110710 02:38:18< WhiteMage> yes I have
20110710 02:38:50< WhiteMage> but again, I would like to understand how it is done now
20110710 02:39:11< WhiteMage> AI is the most inferior part of any commercial games
20110710 02:39:25< Tomsik> No idea, but TBS games are particularly difficult for AIs because of the quantisation
20110710 02:40:12< Tomsik> Chess has some good AIs just because it has relatively few valid moves and has been very thoroughly studied years before the computers came
20110710 02:41:22< WhiteMage> yes, chess is the classic example
20110710 02:41:30< WhiteMage> most researched, most funded
20110710 02:42:05< WhiteMage> there are many different approcahes to create a good AI
20110710 02:42:39< WhiteMage> first there should be a way to encode the human expert knowledge
20110710 02:43:33< WhiteMage> so if a top player can write down his rules that could be possibly coded and then pattern recognition algorithm with probabilities would choose which one to apply
20110710 02:43:48< Tomsik> I don't think this is as easy as "write down his rules"
20110710 02:43:48< WhiteMage> but again, is there anyone here who knows Wesnoth AI?
20110710 02:44:09< WhiteMage> I would rather talk to the expert here
20110710 02:44:38< WhiteMage> this is not a philosophical argument, but technical conversation
20110710 02:44:57< Tomsik> Well, you can read the code
20110710 02:46:04< WhiteMage> I may. It is on my list of interests
20110710 02:46:58< WhiteMage> but again, MP would be my priority for Wesnoth and I already offered AI help for the other game we develop.
20110710 02:47:21< WhiteMage> it takes a long time to create a good AI
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20110710 02:48:43< WhiteMage> anyway. thank you so much for talking to me
20110710 02:48:48< WhiteMage> and answering my questions
20110710 02:50:18< WhiteMage> actually I wrote down my rules: I have 160. Most could be implemented in AI, I think
20110710 02:50:58< WhiteMage> that would be still fairly weak vs a top player, but I think may beat the current AI, if coded
20110710 02:52:48< WhiteMage> anyone interested in contacting me, my email is on ladder, but I do not make promises.
20110710 02:54:49< WhiteMage> bye
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20110710 05:23:11< diederik1974> Hi, how do you call the tile from which Konrad can recall/recruit units?
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20110710 05:24:37< shadowmaster> keep
20110710 05:24:50< shadowmaster> the leader recruits from a keep tile into castle tiles
20110710 05:25:22< diederik1974> thanks. Will include that in my bug report (18325)
20110710 05:36:04< diederik1974> done. Back to the game :)
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20110710 05:40:40< Gambit> janebot: !ticket 18325
20110710 05:40:40< janebot> Gambit: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18325
20110710 05:40:41< janebot> Gambit: Battle for Wesnoth - Bugs: bug #18325, Error while reading the WML:... [Gna!]
20110710 05:44:15< shadowmaster> :\
20110710 05:44:35< shadowmaster> Gambit: you just killed my ego.
20110710 05:44:45< Gambit> Why's that?
20110710 05:45:11< shadowmaster> and how the hell does it take you just one second to get the web page?
20110710 05:45:24< Gambit> Oh. unvanquished.net is a really sexy machine.
20110710 05:45:34< shadowmaster> Gna.org has always been slow for me, no matter whether I'm at the university's wifi (~ 1.2 MiB/second) or at home
20110710 05:46:12< Gambit> Yeah I dunno what kind of net connection it has. I'll ask tomorrow.
20110710 05:46:15< Gambit> janebot: http://gna.org
20110710 05:46:16< janebot> Gambit: title: Welcome [Gna!]
20110710 05:46:20 * Gambit shrugs
20110710 05:47:11< Gambit> *bunker.unvanquished.net. It's a whole network of machines apparently.
20110710 05:47:32< Gambit> The guy is (apparently) crazy rich, and super generous.
20110710 05:48:05< shadowmaster> sounds like a nice target for shadowm HQ
20110710 05:48:38< Gambit> Yeah maybe.
20110710 05:49:14< Gambit> It was so weird and lucky. I was talking about janebot in #minecraft. They were considering getting reports of notch's twitter account, and I mentioned that it can't run 24/7 and out of the blue he offered hosting.
20110710 05:49:26< shadowmaster> :|
20110710 05:50:03< Gambit> I thought for sure it must be a scam, but no. Totally free and he was really accommodating with recompiling perl and stuff.
20110710 05:50:22< Gambit> Cause for some reason the perl packages on debian aren't compiled with ithreads enabled or something along those lines.
20110710 05:50:37< Gambit> Which used to be a dependency.
20110710 05:50:45< shadowmaster> I really don't understand that claim because I don't find anything special here.
20110710 05:50:54< shadowmaster> I ran your Gambot just fine on squeeze and wheezy.
20110710 05:51:30< shadowmaster> I'd say bbhurbans simply doesn't know what he's talking about or what he's running.
20110710 05:51:44< shadowmaster> (isn't he running (supposedly) Unstable on a public-facing server anyway? sheesh)
20110710 05:52:53< Gambit> Well I need sleep. Good night.
20110710 05:53:59< enchilado> 'night.
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20110710 07:11:14< Ardonik> shadowmaster: I just have to say...Frogatto is freakin' *awesome*.
20110710 07:12:20< enchilado> It is.
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20110710 07:56:34< shadowmaster> Ardonik: :)
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20110710 08:45:39< Rhonda> huhm
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20110710 10:21:08< Ivanovic> moin
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