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20110717 14:10:43< Appleman1234> hi
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20110717 18:05:47< dta> Sup.
20110717 18:06:01< shadowmaster> The Internet's up.
20110717 18:06:09< dta> Sup shadowm_laptop.
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20110717 18:07:01< dta> Cloud computing is the next big thing.
20110717 18:07:17< dta> It'd be more popular is Dropbox didn't f it up.
20110717 18:09:55< dta> shadowm_laptop, do you play much, or are you just a dev?
20110717 18:10:52< shadowmaster> depends
20110717 18:10:58< dta> Er.
20110717 18:11:02< dta> You either play or you don't.
20110717 18:11:23< dta> Anyways, I read your blog, it's pretty sexy.
20110717 18:12:03< dta> It's one of those blogs where you go 'Oh, this is unique!'. It was a very enjoyable experience.
20110717 18:12:12< shadowmaster> I mean that it depends on what I'm up to. Sometimes I play MP a bit, sometimes I playtest mainline single player campaigns.
20110717 18:12:21< dta> Ah.
20110717 18:12:28< shadowmaster> Most of the time I don't play Wesnoth at all, though.
20110717 18:12:37< dta> How do you develop it then?
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20110717 18:13:24< shadowmaster> I'm not a very active developer nowadays and I've never worked on stuff that requires much playtesting.
20110717 18:13:37< dta> Ah. So, you just chill in here?
20110717 18:14:11< shadowmaster> I am still involved with website administration a bit.
20110717 18:14:24< dta> Is that fun?
20110717 18:14:49< dta> I heard someone hacked the ladder website. So, stuff like that is your fault?
20110717 18:14:50< shadowmaster> Depends on my mood and whether I have to deal with a machine or people.
20110717 18:14:59< shadowmaster> And no, I have nothing to do with that ladder thing.
20110717 18:15:04< Betacrow> Nothing wrong with hacking the ladder website.
20110717 18:15:15< Gambit> dta: The ladder is not affiliated with Wesnoth in any way.
20110717 18:15:26< Gambit> And I'm honestly considering locking their thread on the forums because it's such a heat source.
20110717 18:15:32< dta> Gambit, I'm pretty sure ladder is srs bsns in Wesnoth.
20110717 18:15:35< Betacrow> They're too full of themselves that they need to be put in check every once in a while.
20110717 18:15:57< dta> shadowm_laptop, so, you don't work with any security?
20110717 18:16:24< shadowmaster> Forum administration involves some security measures I guess.
20110717 18:16:32< dta> Oh.
20110717 18:16:52< dta> So, do you like people, or machines more?
20110717 18:17:17< shadowmaster> Also depends on my mood.
20110717 18:17:28< Betacrow> I like Gambit's machines alot. ;)
20110717 18:17:29< dta> What about humans using machines?
20110717 18:17:41< dta> That's like, the best of both worlds.
20110717 18:17:58< shadowmaster> Sometimes I don't think that's any different from monkeys typing on typewriters.
20110717 18:18:12< dta> Typewriters aren't on the tube.
20110717 18:18:24< Betacrow> janebot:  Isn't that right?
20110717 18:18:24< janebot> Betacrow: Yep. 
20110717 18:18:32< shadowmaster> No, but there's a chance they'll produce something good by randomly smashing stuff.
20110717 18:18:38< dta> janebot, is shadowm_laptop a cool guy?
20110717 18:18:39< janebot> dta: Yep. 
20110717 18:18:47< dta> Ah.
20110717 18:19:11< dta> So, you're like the quality control of the forums?
20110717 18:19:18< shadowmaster> No.
20110717 18:19:22< dta> Do you ever delete threads, or just lock them?
20110717 18:20:18< shadowmaster> We usually do not delete topics or individual posts unless they are produced by automated/semi-automated spammers, but we evaluate the need in a case-by-case basis.
20110717 18:20:35< dta> Ah.
20110717 18:20:44< dta> What's semi-automated?
20110717 18:21:26< shadowmaster> A buzzword I love to use.
20110717 18:21:38< dta> So, it's for the 'masses'.
20110717 18:23:03< dta> shadowm_laptop, have you seen POWERSHOT?
20110717 18:23:17< shadowmaster> It's "powershot", but yes.
20110717 18:23:22< dta> Ah.
20110717 18:23:40< dta> What do you think of his contributions to the Wesnoth community?
20110717 18:24:18< shadowmaster> I think I won't comment on that.
20110717 18:24:40< dta> His Vulcans are pretty unique.
20110717 18:24:51< Betacrow> My personal favorite is the mandrill animation.
20110717 18:24:56< dta> XD
20110717 18:25:36< dta> shadowm_laptop, what's your opinion on integrating Caliphate into default Wesnoth?
20110717 18:25:46< Gambit> *Khalifate
20110717 18:25:49< shadowmaster> the name is Khalifate
20110717 18:25:51< dta> Depends on the spelling.
20110717 18:25:57< Gambit> No. It doesn't.
20110717 18:25:57< dta> We all know it's a play on Caliphate.
20110717 18:26:10< Gambit> One is for Islamaphobes who want to smear it.
20110717 18:26:15< dta> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/khalifate
20110717 18:26:18< dta> Not really.
20110717 18:26:24< Gambit> The other is the actual spelling of the fantasy faction.
20110717 18:26:25< shadowmaster> I do not care whether it's a play on a known word or not and I just abide by mainline spellings.
20110717 18:26:39< dta> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/khalifate
20110717 18:26:47< dta> It's not even a play, it's an alternate spelling.
20110717 18:27:10< dta> Wesnoth is supposed to be a high fantasy setting. 
20110717 18:27:26< Betacrow> Would a "Default - Khalifate" add-on be allowed?
20110717 18:27:50< Gambit> Betacrow: The default era doesn't include them AFAIK
20110717 18:27:57< Gambit> There is a second "Default + Khalifate" era added.
20110717 18:27:59< shadowmaster> Either way, the developers in question do not plan to make the Default+Khalifate era the only mainline option.
20110717 18:28:14< Betacrow> Cool cool.
20110717 18:28:16< dta> Oh.
20110717 18:28:19< dta> That's cool then.
20110717 18:28:30< dta> I thought noy was going to force everyone to play his faction.
20110717 18:28:53< shadowmaster> Yeah, I am aware that you people like to think of noy as an arrogant person.
20110717 18:28:58< mystic_x> shadowmaster: I was told they do
20110717 18:29:07< shadowmaster> mystic_x: not in 1.10.
20110717 18:29:13< Gambit> Their art so far is beautiful.
20110717 18:29:20< dta> Yea.
20110717 18:29:25< Betacrow> New loyalist art is better
20110717 18:29:32< Betacrow> Oh so better.
20110717 18:29:35< mystic_x> you forgot to mention that earlier
20110717 18:29:43< Gambit> Assuming they're suitably balanced (something I know nothing about) I can't imagine why you wouldn't't want to use the,
20110717 18:29:45< dta> Maintaining balance in default Wesnoth is better too.
20110717 18:29:55< dta> I've played them, they're terribly balanced.
20110717 18:30:02< shadowmaster> mystic_x: 1.12 and 1.14 are far away enough and the planning has not started.
20110717 18:30:04< dta> It's like Era of Magic balanced.
20110717 18:30:31< dta> But, this could be a move away from competitive Wesnoth.
20110717 18:30:36< dta> Which I'm in favor of.
20110717 18:30:56< shadowmaster> mystic_x: Khalifate in Default will probably become an official topic for discussion in 1.11.x or 1.13.x if the MP developers feel like it but that's not the case right now.
20110717 18:30:57< mystic_x> yeah, but they are determined to eventually merge the Caliphate into default
20110717 18:31:04< dta> ^
20110717 18:31:31< shadowmaster> Now please leave the hater attitude aside, people. Just because a new faction is added Wesnoth won't fall apart.
20110717 18:31:52< mystic_x> where did I show "hater attitude"?
20110717 18:31:55< dta> I'm totally cool with it being an addon, everyone is open to make an addon that disrupts the basic foundation of Wesnoth, but integrating it into default is questionable.
20110717 18:32:06< shadowmaster> mystic_x: eh, not you.
20110717 18:32:15< Betacrow> I'm a classic kinda guy.
20110717 18:32:20< dta> Anyone who disagrees with shadowm_laptop is a hater.
20110717 18:32:22< Betacrow> I remember when thugs were in default knalgans.
20110717 18:32:47< Gambit> Let's all go back to Wesnoth 1.0
20110717 18:32:54< shadowmaster> dta: No, but I'm aware of the Khalifate topic in the forums.
20110717 18:33:25< dta> shadowm_laptop, is the Caliphate topic in the forums a bunch of haters?
20110717 18:33:25< shadowmaster> And your statement about noy pretty much confirms my suspicion that you want to bring it here.
20110717 18:33:30< shadowmaster> In other words, please don't.
20110717 18:33:38< dta> Actually, I have nothing against noy personally.
20110717 18:33:57< dta> It's just he's using his clout to drive the game in a direction 'the masses' don't want
20110717 18:34:17< shadowmaster> Which is?
20110717 18:34:23< Gambit> Right. Your disapproval is totally professional. That's why you came in here flaming him a few days ago.
20110717 18:34:33< Gambit> And don't pretend to speak for any sort of mass.
20110717 18:34:39< dta> Do you accuse everyone of flaming Gambit?
20110717 18:34:47-!- Miccoh [~Miccoh@a88-115-180-206.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110717 18:34:52< shadowmaster> I mean, you assume that Khalifate goes against Wesnoth standards just because nobody has written a campaign or other material for them yet?
20110717 18:34:53< dta> Disagreeing != flaming.
20110717 18:34:56< Gambit> I'm pretty sure we'll find "butthurt" in the 4chan dictionary of insults.
20110717 18:35:09< dta> Why are you bringing up 4chan?
20110717 18:35:15< dta> That has nothing to do with this discussion.
20110717 18:35:23< Gambit> Because they're an authority on flaming of course.
20110717 18:35:28< dta> Attacking the other person instead of discussing their argument isn't professional.
20110717 18:35:35< dta> Actually, 4chan sucks.
20110717 18:35:36< Gambit> dta: You don't say!
20110717 18:35:42< dta> Gambit, I do indeed.
20110717 18:35:48 * shadowmaster stares at a wall.
20110717 18:36:07< dta> Anyways, what I have against Caliphate is that it disrupts the high fantasy setting.
20110717 18:36:16< shadowmaster> dta: answer my question.
20110717 18:36:21< shadowmaster> it's a yes or no.
20110717 18:36:38< dta> shadowm_laptop, It's a no, I disagree with your assumption.
20110717 18:36:50< shadowmaster> okay, then please elaborate.
20110717 18:37:01< dta> Having shaky balance and not much content doesn't disqualify something from going mainline.
20110717 18:37:23< dta> It's the fact that Caliphate is a historical system of government.
20110717 18:37:27< dta> Wesnoth is a high fantasy setting.
20110717 18:37:37< dta> References to historical things disrupts that.
20110717 18:38:13< shadowmaster> okay, I guess we should also drop anything that makes reference to RL concepts.
20110717 18:38:20< shadowmaster> let's start with the Sergeant line
20110717 18:38:39< shadowmaster> then let's drop the Mermaid Priestess and the White Magi branch
20110717 18:38:46< dta> Sergent is a general thing.
20110717 18:39:04< dta> Individual units are fine.
20110717 18:39:19< shadowmaster> so your problem with the Khalifate faction boils down to its name?
20110717 18:39:25< Gambit> dta: So you'd be okay with them if it was renamed BananaSplitifate?
20110717 18:39:38< dta> Having a God in wesnoth isn't a direct reference to Allah.
20110717 18:39:58< dta> Having a hero named 'Abdulmecid II' is a direct reference.
20110717 18:39:58< shadowmaster> good, we don't have a God in Wesnoth either anyway
20110717 18:40:02< dta> And that's what Caliphate is.
20110717 18:40:04< shadowmaster> also there's nothing wrong with Allah.
20110717 18:40:13< dta> I agree!
20110717 18:40:20< dta> But there is when it's in a high fantasy setting.
20110717 18:40:27< Gambit> Why?
20110717 18:40:48< dta> High fantasy isn't directly integrated with reality.
20110717 18:40:54< shadowmaster> also please point  me to the mainline material in question where there's a hero named "Abdulmecid II"
20110717 18:41:04< dta> Having a faction called the British Empire would be a direct reference.
20110717 18:41:32< dta> shadowm_laptop, as you might have guess, there is no hero named "Abdulmecid II". That was a comparison.
20110717 18:41:39< dta> guessed*
20110717 18:41:50< shadowmaster> a very far-fetched comparison, indeed.
20110717 18:42:16< dta> Abdulmecid II is the last Caliph, so no, it isn't that far fetched.
20110717 18:42:28< shadowmaster> considering that the same person who decided to remove all English-sounding names from mainline is the one who approved and helped with the Khalifate naming, I don't think the issue you are bringing up is real.
20110717 18:42:48< Gambit> shadowmaster: No, that just fuels the islamaphobia.
20110717 18:43:01< Gambit> I.E. that person is de-westernizing the game :P
20110717 18:43:19< dta> shadowm_laptop, I don't know about you, but I'm not talking about noy.
20110717 18:43:24< shadowmaster> yeah, maybe Dave should have sticked to his originall ideas
20110717 18:43:28< dta> I'm talking about his pet project, Caliphate.
20110717 18:43:34< shadowmaster> dta: I am not talking about noy either.
20110717 18:43:43< shadowmaster> not even about me.
20110717 18:43:45< dta> shadowm_laptop, Who are you referring to?
20110717 18:43:52-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-47-46.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110717 18:44:08< mystic_x> Gambit: btw, calling people islamophobic or homobhobic is insulting
20110717 18:44:11< shadowmaster> esr worked with the Khalifate authors at one point
20110717 18:45:16< dta> shadowm_laptop, how does that relate? I'm not questioning the motivation of the Caliphate, I'm questioning the integration of the faction itself. I'm not attacking people, I'm discussing factions.
20110717 18:45:16< Gambit> Yeah I guess I'd be pretty insulted to have my irrationalities drug out.
20110717 18:45:23< Betacrow> I don't mind Islamic features in the game. But you're going to have to bring back crosses for white magi and change arcane back to holy(though I realize that change was made more to make sense with undead and stuff)
20110717 18:45:41< shadowmaster> dta: yes, and I'm telling you that the integration of the faction itself was questioned before.
20110717 18:45:43< dta> Gambit, this isn't the time for harassing people and getting off topic, as you may want.
20110717 18:45:50< Gambit> I'm done here. He already said the only problem is the name.
20110717 18:45:59< mystic_x> I find it pretty irrational to accuse everyone opposing you of being *phobic
20110717 18:46:22< Gambit> mystic_x: I asked for logical arguments.
20110717 18:46:25< dta> shadowm_laptop, I understand that, but what's the reason for it passing?
20110717 18:46:25< Gambit> None were provided.
20110717 18:46:31< Gambit> Ergo: illogical
20110717 18:46:40< shadowmaster> dta: That the developers like it.
20110717 18:46:46< dta> Gambit, there were provided, but you refused to acknowledge them.
20110717 18:46:47< shadowmaster> It was never a single person's decision.
20110717 18:46:50< mystic_x> I didn't start this argument
20110717 18:47:01< dta> shadowm_laptop, Why do the devs like ruining the basic foundation of the game?
20110717 18:47:13< mystic_x> oh.. and for the record, I am Islamophobic
20110717 18:47:21< shadowmaster> dta: They don't like that and that has not happened.
20110717 18:47:35< Betacrow> I just don't know why we have to call them caliphate. We don't call loyalists the holy roman empire. I'd rather just call Caliphate the "Empire" or something.
20110717 18:47:36< dta> shadowm_laptop, What's their reasoning for their decision then?
20110717 18:47:52< mystic_x> if I lived in medieval europe, I'd be christianity-phobic
20110717 18:47:54< Betacrow> Otherwise you're giving preferential treatment to islamic warriors and whatnot.
20110717 18:48:00< dta> How can they neglect integration of this obvious reference to a historical government?
20110717 18:48:15< shadowmaster> Again, what's wrong with the name reference?
20110717 18:49:05< dta> shadowm_laptop, it won't just be a name. You wouldn't name a faction 'The Christian's Democracy'.
20110717 18:49:15< dta> Then not put specific things in it.
20110717 18:49:48< shadowmaster> Well, that's not happened yet. If it happens you could get worried.
20110717 18:49:54< dta> I would hope they would make a faction consistent, rather than just slapping a name on something unrelated.
20110717 18:49:56< Betacrow> I don't mind religion in wesnoth(two of the best campaigns, UTBS and ITTU have it as a good part of plot), but when you put one real religion in but neglect christianity, you're being biased.
20110717 18:49:58< dta> So, it's 'just a name'?
20110717 18:50:05< Betacrow> It's like reverse discrimination.
20110717 18:50:11< shadowmaster> Now, if you have a better name suggestion, I imagine it'd be more productive to suggest it in the forums so the relevant people can consider it.
20110717 18:50:12< dta> If that's the case, then what's the point?
20110717 18:50:25< dta> shadowm_laptop, You just get banned for flaming in the forums.
20110717 18:50:33< dta> Open discussion isn't allowed with noy around.
20110717 18:50:47< shadowmaster> Open discussion is allowed when people don't use noy for target practice.
20110717 18:51:08< dta> shadowm_laptop, This is noy's pet project, and he isn't afraid to defend it.
20110717 18:51:18< dta> He's infamous for banning people he doesn't agree with.
20110717 18:51:22< shadowmaster> If you can provide us with a sensible argument other than "noy this", "noy that", we can consider stuff.
20110717 18:51:38< shadowmaster> And no, this project isn't just noy's.
20110717 18:51:46< dta> shadowm_laptop, "noy this" "noy that" was only brought up due to the forums.
20110717 18:51:57< dta> I don't mind not being able to discuss on the forums.
20110717 18:52:04< shadowmaster> No, the forums are not at fault. The people in question are.
20110717 18:52:24< dta> shadowm_laptop, so, you would be responsible for his moderation practices on the forum?
20110717 18:52:37< shadowmaster> Not really.
20110717 18:52:51< dta> Isn't it up to the mods to keep the other mods from going rampant?
20110717 18:52:57< shadowmaster> My duty lies with the Forum Moderators group. I am not in charge of noy.
20110717 18:53:07< dta> Noy has made it clear that he isn't open to discussing this.
20110717 18:53:08< shadowmaster> Nor of any other MP developers or moderators.
20110717 18:53:15< dta> So, one mod can ruin the forums for all?
20110717 18:53:43< shadowmaster> Well, again, "noy this" and "noy that" may cause that reaction.
20110717 18:53:58< dta> Actually, this was a legitimate thread where noy states this.
20110717 18:53:59< shadowmaster> I assure you that "shadowmaster this" and "shadowmaster that" isn't a good argument for anything either. :)
20110717 18:54:01< dta> I wasn't involved.
20110717 18:54:10< dta> Yes, I agree.
20110717 18:54:43< Betacrow> I don't remember the actual thread but I Do recall noy having a stern warning basically saying he isn't open to suggestions.
20110717 18:54:57< Betacrow> If that's worth anything.
20110717 18:56:00< dta> Wesnoth being an open source community where all can contribute, noy strongly denying any input from others into the mainline takes away from the open source philosophy.
20110717 18:56:23< shadowmaster> Open source != democracy.
20110717 18:56:23< dta> I'm fine if he's making his own mod for the addon server, but when it's a required part of Wesnoth, that's where the issues lies.
20110717 18:57:09< dta> The Open Source community has aspects of people working together and all contributing input. Noy is not accepting any input and is forcing this into mainline.
20110717 18:57:45< shadowmaster> again, noy didn't force this into mainline, on his own, anyway
20110717 18:57:49< Crendgrim> I doubt that this is Noy alone...
20110717 18:57:57< dta> We all know noy wears the pants.
20110717 18:58:05< shadowmaster> and input is appreciated except when it's explicitly not required
20110717 18:58:11< Betacrow> As a conquest player I can relate with Mabuse
20110717 18:58:19< Betacrow> relate *this
20110717 18:58:26< dta> 'Not required' input into the main game?
20110717 18:58:30< dta> Is this noy's game now?
20110717 18:58:49< shadowmaster> for example, we don't want input about what Wesnoth should do with the ladder because we decided we don't want the ladder as an official service and we have our right as developers/admins/etc. to do this
20110717 18:59:04< shadowmaster> noy as a developer of the Khalifate faction has the right to decide where it should go
20110717 18:59:17< shadowmaster> so does XYZ person as the author of the ABC campaign
20110717 18:59:25< dta> Would you integrate powershot's faction into mainline on his whim?
20110717 18:59:54< shadowmaster> obviously not
20110717 19:00:04< dta> " XYZ person as the author of the ABC campaign"
20110717 19:00:10< dta> Or faction.
20110717 19:00:16< shadowmaster> but powershot is not a mainline developer nor has his work been approved by a mainline developer
20110717 19:00:21< dta> Why so inconsistent? Noy wears the pants.
20110717 19:00:33< Crendgrim> I think there's a huge difference between a random faction and a well-elaborated faction which has been prepared for mainline for years now.
20110717 19:00:34< shadowmaster> noy is a mainline developer and his work has been approved by other mainline developers
20110717 19:00:50< dta> Being approved by some devs doesn't make it legit.
20110717 19:00:56< dta> powershot is trying to hard.
20110717 19:00:56< shadowmaster> dta: no, it's perfectly legit.
20110717 19:00:59< dta> But he doesn't get any love.
20110717 19:01:02< shadowmaster> I need to remind you that we are not a democracy.
20110717 19:01:09< shadowmaster> Wesnoth is mainly driven by the active core develoeprs.
20110717 19:01:20< Betacrow> What does noy develop, again?
20110717 19:01:32< dta> He seems more like an admin.
20110717 19:01:37< shadowmaster> Betacrow: the Khalifate faction.
20110717 19:01:41< shadowmaster> and no, not all developers are coders
20110717 19:01:54< dta> What does it take to be a 'core developer'?
20110717 19:02:03< shadowmaster> get our praise :)
20110717 19:02:06< dta> Er.
20110717 19:02:13< dta> So it's about power?
20110717 19:02:24< shadowmaster> contribute stuff we like or we need, and you'll eventually become one of us
20110717 19:02:44< dta> Like the Borg?
20110717 19:02:45< shadowmaster> and no, people don't get power here just by asking for it
20110717 19:03:00< dta> They get power by kissing noy's ***?
20110717 19:03:05< Crendgrim> there once has been a great blog post about open source software and its relations to democrazy
20110717 19:03:05< shadowmaster> people get power when it's appropriate for a task
20110717 19:03:10< Crendgrim> though I do not find it anymore, sadly :(
20110717 19:03:27< dta> I don't think http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/AbdulmecidII.jpg is appropriate for a high fantasy setting.
20110717 19:03:28< Crendgrim> shadowmaster: you know much more than I – do you remember that one? 
20110717 19:03:33< shadowmaster> noy was considered to be the most appropriate MP moderator at one point, he became an MP moderator
20110717 19:03:34< Crendgrim> it would be great lecture for dta
20110717 19:04:00< shadowmaster> Crendgrim: nope :(
20110717 19:04:06< dta> He gets off on banning people.
20110717 19:04:12< shadowmaster> I could always direct him to ask in the LKML though!
20110717 19:04:17< dta> I don't think that's a good attribute.
20110717 19:04:23< dta> It's like a sadistic judge.
20110717 19:04:31< dta> It corrupts his decision making.
20110717 19:04:41< dta> LKML?
20110717 19:04:44< shadowmaster> sure, that's what people think of me when I ban users in the forum
20110717 19:04:51< dta> Not really.
20110717 19:04:52< Gambit> dta: is http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/AbdulmecidII.jpg in the game?
20110717 19:04:56< Gambit> Why do you keep bringing that up?
20110717 19:05:02< dta> I think you're actually earnest.
20110717 19:05:02< shadowmaster> dta: how can you tell? :)
20110717 19:05:15< shadowmaster> I mean, I haven't banned you, right? and the people I have banned can no longer post in the forum
20110717 19:05:15< Gambit> shadowmaster: The mustache.
20110717 19:05:15< dta> Firsthand experience.
20110717 19:05:26< shadowmaster> nah
20110717 19:05:45< dta> shadowm_laptop, Actually, I've been banned from like 3 IRC channels by you, 1 forum account banned by you, and one thread locked by you.
20110717 19:05:55< dta> I think you did this for the community, not for sadistic urgest.
20110717 19:06:04< shadowmaster> no, I don't think I've banned you before
20110717 19:06:10< dta> It was like a year ago.
20110717 19:06:14< shadowmaster> I haven't even met you before, unless you were going by a different name.
20110717 19:06:18< dta> Er.
20110717 19:06:23< dta> We've met before.
20110717 19:06:27< dta> We were very intimate.
20110717 19:06:30< shadowmaster> if you were using sockpuppets, tell me.
20110717 19:06:33< shadowmaster> :)
20110717 19:06:54< shadowmaster> dta and dta2 have no previous "history" according to the forum software
20110717 19:06:59< dta> I was permanently banned from the mp server like a year ago, so ya I used different aliases on the server.
20110717 19:07:09< shadowmaster> ah wait, dta2 does
20110717 19:07:14< dta> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31342
20110717 19:07:20< dta> dta was my original account.
20110717 19:07:23< shadowmaster> however, I did not ban you
20110717 19:07:29< dta> Who banned dta2 then?
20110717 19:07:36< dta> The first one was banned, I assumed it was noy.
20110717 19:07:44< dta> The second was banned, I assumed that was you.
20110717 19:07:52< dta> You were on a banning streak with me on this IRC channel.
20110717 19:08:04< Betacrow> Man
20110717 19:08:07< shadowmaster> oh my bad, dta2 is banned due to "circumventing bans"
20110717 19:08:11< Betacrow> shadow isn't like that
20110717 19:08:14< shadowmaster> and yes, that was me
20110717 19:08:16< dta> Yea.
20110717 19:08:19< Betacrow> Except he is
20110717 19:08:24< shadowmaster> now let me figure out why dta has no history
20110717 19:08:31< dta> But I don't think you're sadistic.
20110717 19:08:47< dta> Oh, I probably didn't post on the forums before.
20110717 19:08:55< Betacrow> Unibrow eh is cool guy, eh hangs out on irc and doesn't afraid of gambit
20110717 19:08:58< dta> I made the dta account to PM noy about the perma ban from the server.
20110717 19:09:01< shadowmaster> yes, but I can see when an account has been banned or not
20110717 19:09:30< shadowmaster> oh my god, the forum software has failed me
20110717 19:09:34< dta> lol
20110717 19:09:46< dta> I don't think I posted as dta on the forums before.
20110717 19:09:52< dta> But that was my username on the server for about a year.
20110717 19:10:02< shadowmaster> okay, so I banned you for harassing noy
20110717 19:10:09< dta> It wasn't harassment.
20110717 19:10:22< shadowmaster> that's what the forum says, I don't remember :)
20110717 19:10:22< dta> I was talking to noy about his unjustified perma ban.
20110717 19:10:51< dta> Then I was directed in IRC to talk to mp admins.
20110717 19:11:03< shadowmaster> now, since I'm a pretty cool guy, I'm open to people asking me to be unbanned if they show that they have learned something
20110717 19:11:16< dta> I was banned from the forums, and someone said it wasn't appropriate to discuss bans in here, which I agree with.
20110717 19:11:20< shadowmaster> as far as I know, that's the same policy used in the MP servers, or so the CoC claims
20110717 19:11:26< dta> So, I made a new forum account.
20110717 19:11:47< dta> And accidentally posted the thread on the forums instead of a mod pm list.
20110717 19:12:10< dta> noy was the banner on the server, so I'd have to go to him, right?
20110717 19:12:12< dta> I went to him.
20110717 19:12:14< dta> Got banned.
20110717 19:12:15< shadowmaster> so you were banned from the forums first?
20110717 19:12:18< dta> Naw.
20110717 19:12:22< dta> banned from the mp server first.
20110717 19:12:33< dta> By noy for talking the server lobby.
20110717 19:12:39< shadowmaster> 13:11:16 <dta> I was banned from the forums, [...]
20110717 19:12:40< dta> It's meant to be use for 'arranging games'.
20110717 19:12:42< shadowmaster> 13:11:26 <dta> So, I made a new forum account.
20110717 19:12:48< dta> That was after the ban.
20110717 19:12:58< dta> I made the forum account, as I was directed, to discuss the ban with noy.
20110717 19:13:03< dta> He banned me for talking to him.
20110717 19:13:10< dta> I posted an appeal, got banned again.
20110717 19:13:15< dta> Went to IRC, got banned by you.
20110717 19:13:26< shadowmaster> okay, good.
20110717 19:13:31< dta> Yea.
20110717 19:13:44< shadowmaster> now I think we've strayed too far from the point. I don't remember what this was all about
20110717 19:13:46< dta> I didn't care about the forum account that much, I never posted with it.
20110717 19:14:08< dta> It was about me ignoring noy and talking to people in the lobby.
20110717 19:14:17< dta> He got butthurt I wasn't respecting his authority and perma banned me.
20110717 19:14:35< Gambit> Okay you're done.
20110717 19:14:37< shadowmaster> in general, ignoring a moderator or administrator is a very bad idea
20110717 19:14:39< dta> 'Done'?
20110717 19:14:44< Gambit> Yes. Done.
20110717 19:14:47< dta> 'Done'?
20110717 19:14:58< shadowmaster> and I don't say this because I agree with noy (I don't agree with noy) :)
20110717 19:15:03< Gambit> shadowmaster: permission to fire?
20110717 19:15:08< dta> Yea, it's a bad idea if you want to be on the server.
20110717 19:15:13< dta> But a perma ban is obscene.
20110717 19:15:13< shadowmaster> Gambit: fire what?
20110717 19:15:19< dta> Gambit wants to ban me.
20110717 19:15:27< Gambit> shadowmaster: the flame seeking missiles. Duh.
20110717 19:15:31< dta> XD
20110717 19:15:35< shadowmaster> Gambit, I am the one who bans people here when I am around. Don't be a jerk.
20110717 19:15:40< shadowmaster> That's my duty.
20110717 19:15:42< Betacrow> Told.
20110717 19:15:44< dta> lol
20110717 19:15:53< Betacrow> janebot: !quote Betacrow
20110717 19:15:53< janebot> Betacrow: "Is Gambit the Comic foil to shadowmaster, or is shadowmaster the straightman to Gambit's comedy?" - Betacrow 1
20110717 19:16:06< Gambit> shadowmaster: Okay. But I'm fairly certain noy would not allow sodomy insults about you.
20110717 19:16:12< Gambit> I wouldn't for either of you.
20110717 19:16:35< Gambit> Or any of our fine developers, moderators, or administrators.
20110717 19:16:48< dta> powershot is a dev.
20110717 19:16:56< shadowmaster> no, he isn't
20110717 19:17:03< dta> He isn't an 'approved' dev.
20110717 19:17:05< dta> But he's a dev.
20110717 19:17:06 * Crendgrim smiles...
20110717 19:17:12< shadowmaster> he's not a developer unless Ivanovic or I say so
20110717 19:17:21< dta> ...I thought noy was in charge.
20110717 19:17:22< Crendgrim> he's an UMC author
20110717 19:17:26< dta> My world was just turned upside down.
20110717 19:17:42< shadowmaster> :(
20110717 19:17:50< dta> Hrm?
20110717 19:18:01< shadowmaster> yeah, noy isn't the dev approver
20110717 19:18:04< dta> Oh.
20110717 19:18:09< dta> What is he then?
20110717 19:18:22< shadowmaster> Ivanovic approves them in the official project, I approve them in the forums
20110717 19:18:29< shadowmaster> noy is our "secretary", I believe
20110717 19:18:33< dta> lol
20110717 19:18:34< dta> Win.
20110717 19:18:49< dta> I've been enlightened.
20110717 19:18:53< dta> Thank you shadowm_laptop.
20110717 19:19:12< shadowmaster> and he's an MP admin by his own right
20110717 19:19:25< dta> Can't anyone be an MP admin?
20110717 19:19:27< shadowmaster> I'm not quite clear as to how that happened, I guess he was around by the time MP came to existence :)
20110717 19:19:30< Betacrow> What's Gambit then if noy is secretary?
20110717 19:19:34< Betacrow> Is Gambit the goofy intern?
20110717 19:19:42< shadowmaster> Gambit is a janitor
20110717 19:19:46< dta> XD
20110717 19:19:48< Gambit> I change the water and fix the coffee machine.
20110717 19:19:51< Betacrow> hahaha
20110717 19:19:53< shadowmaster> forum and MP moderators are janitors
20110717 19:20:42< dta> shadowm_laptop, do you read a lot of webcomics?
20110717 19:20:51< shadowmaster> not really
20110717 19:21:07< dta> Your avatar is a guy from Order of the Stick.
20110717 19:21:41< shadowmaster> yep, that's right
20110717 19:21:51< Betacrow> Xykon.
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20110717 19:22:08< dta> Anyways, I'm a happy camper now that I know noy isn't the dominatrix of entire Wesnoth project.
20110717 19:22:26< dta> Peace out fellas.
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20110717 19:22:38< Gambit> :|
20110717 19:23:35< Crendgrim> okay.
20110717 19:23:45< shadowmaster> and yeah, I lied
20110717 19:24:20< shadowmaster> not really, I simply omitted a few words :)
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 18 00:00:30 2011