--- Log opened Fri Jul 29 00:00:12 2011
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20110729 01:08:47< bim_ir> hmm.. where's 1.9.8
20110729 01:09:06-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20110729 01:10:11< bim_ir> "The announcement will not happen in the next 24h and if the MacOSX and Windows binaries take "too much time" I will just announce in 72 hours. In the meantime you can create and upload your packages."
20110729 01:10:24< bim_ir> 24 jul message
20110729 01:10:31< bim_ir> about 72 hours
20110729 01:11:14< bim_ir> 72 / 24 = ... ehm ... eheheh... hhhhhmmmm. ehehehehe... ohohoh .... 3
20110729 01:11:21< bim_ir> 24 + 3 = 27
20110729 01:11:32< bim_ir> today is jule 28th
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20110729 01:14:01< bim_ir> 27 < 28
20110729 01:14:41< bim_ir> (define (lt a b) (if (< a b) 1 0))
20110729 01:14:46< bim_ir> (lt 27 28)
20110729 01:16:03< bim_ir> 1
20110729 01:16:07< bim_ir> i.e. TRUE
20110729 01:16:18< bim_ir> guys? anybody here?
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20110729 10:37:56< Ivanovic> moin
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20110729 17:31:04-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.6 | Latest development version: 1.9.8 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110729 20:07:03< jargon> 1.8.6 is not stable on ASUS Win7 SP1 x64 imo
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20110729 20:07:19< jargon> It crashed at-least twice.
20110729 20:07:30< jargon> and most the time the input ends up all random
20110729 20:08:38< jargon> I tell them cross a bridge they go south, I tell them to gang up, they take turns fighting and my army ends up slain.
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20110729 20:13:44< zookeeper> "I tell them cross a bridge they go south, I tell them to gang up, they take turns fighting and my army ends up slain." <- ...want to elaborate a bit? i have no idea what that's supposed to mean exactly
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20110729 20:22:47< scot> Hi, does anyone know if or how one can share save files between iphone version and linux version? I am assuming of course the data is the same.
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20110729 20:26:16< Soliton> the data should be the same. no idea where it is saved on an iphone or how you get at it though.
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20110729 21:37:42< elias> i don't think you can access anything on an iphone unless you jailbreak it
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20110729 22:39:20< Static> Hello
20110729 22:40:13< shadowmaster> hi
20110729 22:40:55< Static> I have an idea to improve wesnoth, is this a good place to post? don't feel like registering for the forum
20110729 22:41:22< Soliton> sure.
20110729 22:42:26< Static> Well, whenever I play (I'm pretty new to the game), I find myself thinking that terrain you are standing in affects your chance to hit an enemy, despite that not being so. I was wondering if that would be a good idea to include it
20110729 22:43:32< Static> Like if you're in water as a soldier, you should have less of a chance to hit an enemy on a bank(sand) than from grass
20110729 22:44:52< Soliton> it's way too late to change a core game mechanic because it doesn't fit your intuition.
20110729 22:45:33< Static> I was just wondering what other people would think
20110729 22:46:14< Static> Not really something I'll miss at all if unimplemented
20110729 22:46:25< Crendgrim> as you ask for other people's opinions: IMO that would make things much, much, much more complicated; which certainly contradicts with the Wesnoth Philosophy (KISS)
20110729 22:46:49< shadowmaster> I think that's actually counter-intuitive
20110729 22:47:13< Crendgrim> the battle system already is quite complex; even more complexity would make it un-understandable (hey... is there a word for this?)
20110729 22:47:17< shadowmaster> if I'm shooting at someone from water, I shouldn't have a lesser chance to hit them if they are in plain sight
20110729 22:47:43< shadowmaster> on the other hand, they do have a greater chance to hit *me* because I may have more difficulty dodging their attacks in water
20110729 22:48:31< Static> But, say there's a bowman on a mountain shooting someone on a plain
20110729 22:49:16< Gambit> High ground doesn't do a thing on individuals.
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20110729 22:49:33< Gambit> OTOH there is HAPMA and UAPEB.
20110729 22:49:39< shadowmaster> as long as you have visual contact (which is the hex board equivalent of being on an adjacent hex)...
20110729 22:49:46< shadowmaster> Gambit: UAPEB is not a common acronym, please clarify
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20110729 22:50:03< Betacrow> Incomprehensible @Cendgrim
20110729 22:50:12< Crendgrim> Betacrow: that's it! thanks
20110729 22:50:27< Crendgrim> I knew there was some word... :p
20110729 22:50:30< Betacrow> :P
20110729 22:50:30< Gambit> Units are Possibly Entire Battalions - the unit form of HAPMA
20110729 22:51:15< shadowmaster> Gambit: that's a myth just like NRIW
20110729 22:51:26< Static> I see. Oh well, just a thought
20110729 22:52:06< shadowmaster> Gambit: HAPMA is more or less canonical if you take a look at EI, for example (especially in the last scenarios)
20110729 22:52:10< Static> another thing I had in mind was having "ranged" attacks have more range, but that has probably been shot down before
20110729 22:52:35< Betacrow> You could try PK's modern combat for that, but it's not in default
20110729 22:52:36< Gambit> shadowmaster: it really depends
20110729 22:53:01< shadowmaster> no, it doesn't depend on anything
20110729 22:53:19< Crendgrim> Static: try using Ranged Era
20110729 22:53:43< Gambit> shadowmaster: it does indeed
20110729 22:53:51< Gambit> in some add-ons villages are 1:1 houses
20110729 22:54:01< Gambit> it depends on context
20110729 22:54:08< Gambit> hence the word "possibly"
20110729 22:54:38< shadowmaster> Gambit: 16:52:06 <shadowmaster> Gambit: HAPMA is more or less canonical if you take a look at EI, for example (especially in the last scenarios)
20110729 22:54:56< shadowmaster> so your "it really depends" is just for the sake of redundancy?
20110729 22:56:01< Gambit> something being "canonical" is the exact opposite of "possibly" and "it really depends"
20110729 22:56:25< shadowmaster> no, that was not my intention
20110729 22:56:36< Gambit> k
20110729 22:56:44< shadowmaster> I was just pointing out that UAPEB is a silly myth started in the forums and HAPMA is a fact
20110729 22:57:05< shadowmaster> the exact scale varies according to the map designer
20110729 22:57:35< Gambit> UAPEB is not a myth
20110729 22:57:41< Gambit> We have these leaders yeah?
20110729 22:57:45< Gambit> But villages can only fit one unit?
20110729 22:58:05< Gambit> Whether or not UAPEB is in effect also depends on if HAPMA is.
20110729 22:58:16< Gambit> One horseman fits in "miles" ?
20110729 22:58:42< shadowmaster> I don't buy the fan theory that Delfador represents an army of elder magi in HTttT
20110729 22:58:45< shadowmaster> *HttT
20110729 22:58:54< Gambit> But of course, the leaders could represent themselves + a group of guards
20110729 22:59:00< Static> Not sure about this argument, but then why do units have individual names?
20110729 22:59:05< Static> nm
20110729 22:59:08< Gambit> Static: indeed
20110729 22:59:21< shadowmaster> Static: Gambit is just being silly as usual, don't worry.
20110729 22:59:23< Static> still makes no sense
20110729 22:59:48< Gambit> "Let's all agree that Konrad simply represents 'Konrad and his female ninja bodyguards'."
20110729 23:00:31< Gambit> shadowmaster: so why are villages conquered and occupied by a single unit?
20110729 23:00:41< shadowmaster> Gambit: done already?
20110729 23:01:13< Gambit> Not until you take back that UAPEB is a myth :P
20110729 23:01:33< Gambit> Actually I invented it.
20110729 23:01:34< shadowmaster> I won't take that back and I can keep coming up with new ways to debunk that theory
20110729 23:01:34< Betacrow> Well
20110729 23:01:43< Gambit> So I guess that makes it pretty mythical.
20110729 23:01:50< Gambit> shadowmaster: please do so
20110729 23:01:51< Betacrow> UAPEB itself word-wise lends itself to defining itself as a myth, due to the world possibly.
20110729 23:01:52< shadowmaster> experience.
20110729 23:01:55< shadowmaster> leadership.
20110729 23:02:08< Gambit> They don't debunk it.
20110729 23:02:11< shadowmaster> special units (the aforementioned heroes, loyal units, traits)
20110729 23:02:19< Gambit> Groups of units become more experienced.
20110729 23:02:26< Gambit> Groups of units can inspire others.
20110729 23:02:31< shadowmaster> groups of units all are quick and strong
20110729 23:02:36< Gambit> Yep.
20110729 23:02:39< shadowmaster> groups of units are all loyal at the same time?
20110729 23:02:41< Gambit> That group carries less gear.
20110729 23:02:52< Gambit> Or they have a really good blacksmith in the group.
20110729 23:03:08< Gambit> And yes groups can definitely be loyal.
20110729 23:03:15< Static> I suppose Delfador is a whole nation
20110729 23:03:27< shadowmaster> Gambit: okay, I'm done hearing nonsense arguments from you
20110729 23:03:45< Gambit> You keep saying they're nonsense, but you have nothing that contradicts them.
20110729 23:03:57< Gambit> Plus UAPEB, like HAPMA, contains the "possibly" disclaimer.
20110729 23:04:10< Gambit> It depends on the designers intentions and the players interpretations equally as much.
20110729 23:04:22< Crendgrim> why shouldn't everyone just regard this *as he wants*?
20110729 23:04:41< Crendgrim> and .. why do you two always fight about such nonsense? :/
20110729 23:04:54< Gambit> Crendgrim: Well the only reason this was brought up is because Static suggested bonuses for shooting from mountains (as an example)
20110729 23:05:05< Gambit> But if units are just single units, then the high ground means nothing.
20110729 23:05:13< Gambit> If they are groups it becomes more interesting.
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20110729 23:05:32< Crendgrim> aaaand fight... I'll leave you alone :/
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20110729 23:05:42< Gambit> Kthnxbai.
20110729 23:05:48< Gambit> Nobody's fighting here.
20110729 23:05:51< Gambit> :|
20110729 23:06:21< Betacrow> Shadowmaster and Gambit don't actually seriously fight, it's more like older sibling(Shadowmaster) berating younger sibling(Gambit)
20110729 23:06:58< shadowmaster> Gambit: UAPEB may be the intention of *some* designers but it's not the standard
20110729 23:07:10< shadowmaster> the gameplay mechanics don't lend itself for that either
20110729 23:07:20< Gambit> Except for when they do.
20110729 23:07:20< shadowmaster> *themselves
20110729 23:07:24< shadowmaster> no, they don't
20110729 23:07:28< Gambit> As in villages only having enough room for one unit.
20110729 23:07:32< shadowmaster> and?
20110729 23:07:47< Gambit> It's the same as HAPMA. Sometimes they do support it, sometimes they don't.
20110729 23:07:56< Gambit> Like I said, it is literally just the unit form of HAPMA
20110729 23:08:00< shadowmaster> multiple units in one hex are not possible for design and technical reasons
20110729 23:08:04< Static> Does the translation page list finished translations only, or ones that are in progress too?
20110729 23:08:10< Gambit> shadowmaster: HAPMA is not technical
20110729 23:08:11< Gambit> it is lore
20110729 23:08:16< shadowmaster> Gambit: HAPMA is technical
20110729 23:08:24< Gambit> it is design
20110729 23:08:30< Gambit> it is fluff
20110729 23:08:44< Gambit> Really all we need in a purely technical discussion is "BECAUSE WE MADE IT THAT WAY!"
20110729 23:08:50< shadowmaster> okay, "fluff" is what makes a scenario interesting FYI
20110729 23:08:53< Gambit> Remove all the art and make Wesnoth just numbers.
20110729 23:08:56< Gambit> shadowmaster: Oh I know.
20110729 23:08:57< Gambit> I agree.
20110729 23:09:09< shadowmaster> not sure if you want to fight in a 30x30 map composed of flat grassland hexes
20110729 23:09:09< Gambit> You have to have fluff to make the game actually fun and interesting.
20110729 23:09:50< shadowmaster> but really UAPEB is not compatible with standard practice
20110729 23:10:11< Gambit> It's not a myth.
20110729 23:10:13< shadowmaster> you'd need to make a scenario/campaign where units can't get names, experience or dialogue
20110729 23:10:28< Gambit> No
20110729 23:10:30< shadowmaster> yes, it's a myth in the same vein as NRIW as I said
20110729 23:10:36< Gambit> the names and dialogue are from the group leader
20110729 23:10:37< shadowmaster> yes
20110729 23:10:42< Gambit> Also groups *can get experience*
20110729 23:10:56< Gambit> I.E. a stree gang versus a platoon of US soldiers
20110729 23:11:06< shadowmaster> a whole group of grand marshals? *snort*
20110729 23:11:15< Gambit> A grand marshal and his underlings
20110729 23:11:21< shadowmaster> invisible underlings?
20110729 23:11:25< Gambit> Yep
20110729 23:11:34< shadowmaster> those are irrelevant
20110729 23:11:39< Gambit> a one man village? *snort*
20110729 23:11:40< Static> And a group can't split up -_- Translation page question?
20110729 23:11:50< shadowmaster> Gambit: a one house village?
20110729 23:12:07< Gambit> shadowmaster: the length of the hexes are also irrelevant
20110729 23:12:10< Gambit> Don't you see?
20110729 23:12:12< shadowmaster> Static: gettext.wesnoth.org lists all
20110729 23:12:16< shadowmaster> Gambit: no, they are not
20110729 23:12:28< Gambit> This whole discussion is irrelevant.
20110729 23:12:30< shadowmaster> because the hex-to-hex distance is actually relevant for the map designer and gameplay
20110729 23:12:36< Gambit> The game rules are what they are.
20110729 23:12:41< Gambit> The reasons for being that way don't matter.
20110729 23:13:03< Static> thank you
20110729 23:13:58-!- PolarPanda [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has joined #wesnoth
20110729 23:14:06< Gambit> Hey PolarPanda. Good evening.
20110729 23:14:20< PolarPanda> Gambit: Hello, honey.
20110729 23:14:26< Gambit> :<
20110729 23:14:54< shadowmaster> Gambit: okay, so I guess we can agree that your theory makes no sense.
20110729 23:14:58< shadowmaster> good.
20110729 23:15:22< PolarPanda> shadowmaster Gambit What was I supposed to answer?
20110729 23:15:42< shadowmaster> PolarPanda: nothing; I don't know why he's saluting you here instead of our personal channels
20110729 23:16:23< PolarPanda> shadowmaster: Maybe he wants people to know we're dating?
20110729 23:16:29< PolarPanda> Also, what's 
20110729 23:16:36< Gambit> :<
20110729 23:16:36< PolarPanda> Gambit's new theory?
20110729 23:16:38< Betacrow> Kinky.
20110729 23:16:44< shadowmaster> PolarPanda: please don't feed him.
20110729 23:16:51< shadowmaster> let's move on.
20110729 23:17:03< PolarPanda> ...
20110729 23:17:16< PolarPanda> Can I ask on the dark channel?
20110729 23:17:20< shadowmaster> no
20110729 23:17:29< PolarPanda> Querry?
20110729 23:17:41< PolarPanda> r
20110729 23:17:45< shadowmaster> read the logs for yourself if you will
20110729 23:18:21< PolarPanda> This channel's logs? Nah, CBA, too hard.
20110729 23:18:24< PolarPanda> :P
20110729 23:19:28< Gambit> shadowmaster: oh guess what else I have supporting my theory?
20110729 23:19:38< Gambit> My trump card. :D
20110729 23:19:50< shadowmaster> "GEB"
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20110729 23:19:52< shadowmaster> 17:16:51 <shadowmaster> let's move on.
20110729 23:19:56< Gambit> shadowmaster: nope
20110729 23:20:01< shadowmaster> Gambit: okay, so 17:16:51 <shadowmaster> let's move on.
20110729 23:20:03< Gambit> Something you actually respect.
20110729 23:20:10< PolarPanda> ...
20110729 23:20:14< PolarPanda> Me?
20110729 23:20:18< PolarPanda> :P
20110729 23:20:25< Gambit> Starts with a T. Rhymes with... uh... nothing that I can think of offhand.
20110729 23:20:36< shadowmaster> Thesaurus?
20110729 23:21:00< Gambit> A certain awesome person added UAPEB to the slang wiki about two years ago this time.
20110729 23:21:18< Gambit> (yes, I just sifted through the wiki page's history for it)
20110729 23:21:32< shadowmaster> a certain "awesome" person who liked you for some unknown reason
20110729 23:21:36< Gambit> Win.
20110729 23:21:39< Gambit> :O
20110729 23:21:46< Gambit> Did you just put his awesome in sarcastic quotes!
20110729 23:21:47< Gambit> :O
20110729 23:21:51< gregor3000> need a bit of help with wesnoth. how do i chat in multiplayer? can i do so in local game?
20110729 23:22:13< Gambit> gregor3000: Push M to chat.
20110729 23:22:42< gregor3000> nothing happens when i puch m. 
20110729 23:22:46< gregor3000> does it have to be M?
20110729 23:22:53< gregor3000> as in shift+m?
20110729 23:22:57< Gambit> Nope. You can rebind it in preferences.
20110729 23:23:06< gregor3000> or is that because onyl computers are in the game :-O
20110729 23:24:39< shadowmaster> Gambit: so you really think that because it says there EP is a great man he really is a great man?
20110729 23:25:09< shadowmaster> (no offense intended; he could be a small woman!)
20110729 23:26:03< Gambit> shadowmaster: that's not in the definition of the acronym :P
20110729 23:26:13< shadowmaster> yes it is
20110729 23:26:19< shadowmaster> another entry in the same page
20110729 23:26:29< Gambit> No the definition is: "Elvish Pillager"
20110729 23:26:41< Gambit> the rest is an explanation of the definition
20110729 23:26:47< shadowmaster> "EP - Elvish Pillager, moderator and great man :) at forum "
20110729 23:26:54< shadowmaster> that's the entry and it's in the same bullet
20110729 23:27:02< shadowmaster> that's a comma and not a semicolon or stop
20110729 23:27:03< Gambit> as in "IMHO - in my humble opinion, a disclaimer [...]"
20110729 23:27:24< Gambit> shadowmaster: okay. Touche.
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20110729 23:27:28< Gambit> I don't know EP
20110729 23:27:34< enchilado> Maybe he doesn't know how to grammar
20110729 23:27:36< Gambit> At least not very well.
20110729 23:27:41< Gambit> Elvish_Pillager: Are you a great man?
20110729 23:27:42< gregor3000> never mind i solved the problem
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20110729 23:27:56< shadowmaster> the thing is that you are using that page as an emergency backup ignoring for a minute that it's intended to be a guide to commonly used acronyms in the community, not to what's accepted turth or not
20110729 23:28:05< shadowmaster> *backup argument
20110729 23:28:12< Gambit> shadowmaster: The point is that UAPEB is not a myth.
20110729 23:28:33< shadowmaster> it's a myth
20110729 23:28:33< Gambit> Thanks in part to the P
20110729 23:28:46< Elvish_Pillager> Gambit: No; I object to the description "man". And I probably shouldn't comment on whether I'm great, although I don't object to being described as such :P
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 30 00:00:17 2011