--- Log opened Sat Aug 13 00:00:15 2011
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20110813 00:13:24< CIA-57> espreon * r50739 /trunk/data/tools/unit_tree/menu.js: Set svn:eol-style.
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20110813 00:19:23< CIA-57> alarantalara * r50740 /trunk/data/core/ (terrain-graphics/misc.cfg terrain-graphics.cfg): Apply patch #2862: stone wall transitions. Fixes Bug #15940.
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20110813 00:36:37< CIA-57> alarantalara * r50741 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Allow embellishments to be drawn in the swamp
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20110813 02:15:36< Espreon> Hmmm, I probably should have opened a separate bug report for the save loaded as replay corruption.
20110813 02:15:41< Espreon> Oh well.
20110813 02:24:49< CIA-57> alarantalara * r50742 /trunk/data/core/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Add gray and tropical water reefs
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20110813 05:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 180 bugs, 328 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110813 08:52:43< CIA-57> ivanovic * r50743 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-httt/id.po wesnoth-low/id.po): updated Indonesian translation
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20110813 15:45:56< Gambit> Is there anything special one has to do if commiting something that adds a new string to the game?
20110813 15:58:10< timotei> Gambit: I don't think so. Ivanovic runs that pot update from time to time IIRC, which regenerates the .po files
20110813 15:58:34< Gambit> Okay. Thanks.
20110813 16:02:06< CIA-57> grickit * r50744 /trunk/data/core/ (terrain-graphics.cfg terrain.cfg): Added a variation of the windmill that functions as a village.
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20110813 16:55:16< CIA-57> thonsew * r50745 /trunk/src/replay_controller.cpp: 
20110813 16:55:16< CIA-57> Quick fix for seg fault portion of bug #18495 replay load causes segfault
20110813 16:55:16< CIA-57> Moved the initialization of the gui buttons to after they were initialized in display.cpp by the fire event.
20110813 17:04:57< CIA-57> alarantalara * r50746 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Insert missing ,. Fixes bug #18496
20110813 17:05:53< timotei> wesbot: topic
20110813 17:05:55< wesbot> timotei: Don't be impatient, wait until something changes...  *tsk*
20110813 17:06:01< timotei> lol????
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20110813 17:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 179 bugs, 328 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110813 17:31:24< CIA-57> alarantalara * r50747 /trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs): Update changelog
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20110813 17:49:00< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
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20110813 17:49:26< Elvish_Hunter> Does anybody mind if I move this to the Ideas forum, where it belongs? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34726
20110813 17:57:36< Elvish_Hunter> Done.
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20110813 18:03:10< timotei> Alarantalara: What mac do you have?
20110813 18:03:20< timotei> iMac/mac mini/macbook pro/macbook air?
20110813 18:04:15< Alarantalara> I have an old G4, and an iMac
20110813 18:10:03< Alarantalara> What is the policy regarding creating new WML keys?
20110813 18:11:16< Alarantalara> There are a lot of special cases to set terrain aliases in terrain.cfg and it seems like they could all be removed if a no_alias key that removed terrains from the alias list was added
20110813 18:12:09< Alarantalara> The current need for special case terrain_types was what led to bug 18216
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20110813 18:28:13< Gambit> wesbot: log 18216
20110813 18:28:15< wesbot> alink * r18216 : * reduce memory usage for the default zoom level* the movement hint use multiline, colors and bigger font to display terrain defense and turns to reach
20110813 18:28:19< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=18216
20110813 18:28:19< Gambit> oh hmmm
20110813 18:28:22< Gambit> wesbot: bug 18216
20110813 18:28:23< wesbot> Bug #18216  Assigned to: Simon Forsyth <alarantalara>  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20110813 18:28:26< wesbot> Summary: Tropical Forest/Hill terrain
20110813 18:28:28< wesbot> Original submission: The tropical forest implanted on a hill registers as a fo
20110813 18:28:31< wesbot> rest alias rather than a hill/forest.
20110813 18:28:34< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?18216
20110813 18:28:36< Gambit> give me a link darn you
20110813 18:29:35< Alarantalara> It perhaps helps to know that the reason that any other hills work that way with forest is that they have been added as special cases
20110813 18:30:03< Alarantalara> Forest on mountain = forest terrain with pretty mountain background
20110813 18:30:37< fabi> Alarantalara: Forest on mountain? Since when?
20110813 18:31:14< Alarantalara> You can put one on the other in the editor, but it has no game effect
20110813 18:31:44< Alarantalara> I think it was since forest was allowed to be on terrain other than the default forest base and the only hills at the time
20110813 18:34:51< Alarantalara> so since 1.8 at least
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20110813 18:40:00< Alarantalara> This is actually the same issue that lead to bats getting the feral trait only with forests instead of villages
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20110813 18:42:15< Alarantalara> There is no way to specify that a terrain should alias to a subset of the possible base terrains
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20110813 18:46:19< Alarantalara> It also affects mushroom groves, but people tend not to put them on other terrain
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20110813 21:40:02< Espreon> Alarantalara: I tend to put mushroom grove on things other than cave.
20110813 21:40:37< Alarantalara> can you give me an example?
20110813 21:41:10< Espreon> Lemme just load my map.
20110813 21:41:35< Espreon> Alarantalara: Mostly flay.
20110813 21:41:37< Espreon> *flat
20110813 21:41:48< Espreon> Yeah, just flat and cave.
20110813 21:42:44< Alarantalara> Right now, it doesn't matter what you put it on, it's always mushroom grove.
20110813 21:43:13< Espreon> Yeah.
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20110813 21:44:24< Alarantalara> With forest and village, the trend has been towards making defense = best of base and it except on flat, and movement worst of base and it except on flat
20110813 21:44:52< Alarantalara> however, there is no way to represent the "except" part in WML right now
20110813 21:45:29< Alarantalara> so Villages got set to base and village at all times with an exception for bats
20110813 21:45:42< Alarantalara> and forest is forest at all times except for some hills
20110813 21:45:51< Alarantalara> and mushroom grove is always mushroom grove
20110813 21:46:34< Alarantalara> adding a way to specify "except" in WML could make villages, and forest actually be what they were tending towards
20110813 21:47:40< Alarantalara> while reducing the number of terrain_type tags and possibly allowing the feral trait to be removed again if desired (since bats would have 40% defense on flat villages again without special handling)
20110813 21:48:38< Alarantalara> I mention mushroom grove because it could happen to that terrain as well, though that isn't the point of the whole thing
20110813 21:52:00< zookeeper> i'm not too keen on adding actual exceptions to the aliasing rules
20110813 21:53:19< Alarantalara> I can understand that
20110813 21:54:27< Alarantalara> I am suggesting it mostly because trying to do them in WML generates a lot of extra tags to enter the exceptions that way
20110813 21:54:48< Alarantalara> Right now, hills are treated as an exception to the standard forest rule
20110813 21:55:05< zookeeper> yeah, i know, i wrote those exceptions :x it's quite a pain
20110813 21:55:15< Alarantalara> except that desert hills are still completely forest, and tropical forest on any hill is completely forest
20110813 21:55:27< Alarantalara> and if one more hill is added, it will get worse
20110813 21:55:55< Alarantalara> So I thought it might be better to write a way to formalize the exception
20110813 21:56:05< Alarantalara> something like no_alias=Gt
20110813 21:56:07< zookeeper> however, i don't recall off the top of my head why we have forested hills instead of all forests being worst movement and best defense of base,forest
20110813 21:56:30< Alarantalara> because then cavalry has defense 40 in forest
20110813 21:56:35< zookeeper> right, that's it i guess
20110813 21:58:17< zookeeper> frankly, i'd like to find a good simple solution to that so we could make all forests work the same way regardless of base
20110813 21:59:37< Alarantalara> quite. So far the best I have is allowing the forest to say use base unless it is flat, but there may be a better answer
20110813 22:01:48< zookeeper> worst movement of base,forest and defense of forest? orcs and dwarves would get worse defenses on forested hills, but i wonder if i'm missing some other disaster.
20110813 22:02:44< Alarantalara> probably not, since right now forest on anything else is just forest
20110813 22:03:11< Alarantalara> so only units that have better hill defense than forest would be affected
20110813 22:03:35< Alarantalara> It really hurts dwarves, though
20110813 22:04:38< zookeeper> yeah, but then again i think forested hills aren't used much in MP maps, which are the main balance concern
20110813 22:07:28< Alarantalara> Elensefar Courtyard has some, I'll take a look at the others
20110813 22:10:30< zookeeper> great
20110813 22:11:13< Alarantalara> 18 maps total
20110813 22:11:25< Alarantalara> 6p_Volcano 18
20110813 22:11:36< Alarantalara> Ruins of Terra Dwelve has 24
20110813 22:12:46< Alarantalara> Hamlets has 45, though many are out of bounds
20110813 22:12:55< zookeeper> well, i'm sure those can be sorted out somehow if we'd really want to make such a change
20110813 22:14:09< Alarantalara> The other ones that make heavy use of it are Aethermaw and Arcanclave Citadel
20110813 22:14:16< Alarantalara> and Thousand Stings
20110813 22:17:56< zookeeper> hrhm
20110813 22:25:04< zookeeper> mounted units would be affected too (mountedfoot has 30% forest and 40% hills), but that'd kinda make sense anyway so probably not a problem
20110813 22:27:50< zookeeper> so, the biggest issue is orcs, dwarves and other hill units
20110813 22:28:03< Alarantalara> also largefoot units, whatever they are
20110813 22:29:26< Alarantalara> and the Khalifate
20110813 22:32:47< zookeeper> right, i have absolutely no idea about khalifate defenses
20110813 22:32:58< Alarantalara> They all have good hills bad forest
20110813 22:33:17< Alarantalara> generally 60-40 right now
20110813 22:33:39< zookeeper> great :x
20110813 22:37:56< zookeeper> do you think it'd make sense and be intuitive if units which have 60% on plain hills would drop to 40% in forested hills?
20110813 22:38:53< zookeeper> an orc has 40% both in flat and in forest that's on flat. they'd have 60% on plain hills, and 40% on forested hills.
20110813 22:39:12 * zookeeper scratches head
20110813 22:39:27< Alarantalara> I thought orcs had 50% in forest
20110813 22:39:42< zookeeper> oh, right, could be
20110813 22:39:54< Alarantalara> yeah, orcs have 50% in both hills and forest
20110813 22:40:02< Alarantalara> so they wouldn't be affected
20110813 22:40:12< zookeeper> fine :P a dwarf has 30% both in flat and in forest that's on flat. they'd have 60% on plain hills, and 30% on forested hills.
20110813 22:40:53< Alarantalara> personally, that seems strange to me
20110813 22:41:14< Alarantalara> it's not as though the hills went away
20110813 22:41:32< zookeeper> yeah, and it's not like the trees hinder them on flat.
20110813 22:43:14< Alarantalara> looking through the maps, it looks like one of the preferred uses is allowing dwarves and elves to both be able to effectively siege villages
20110813 22:43:26< Alarantalara> (for forested hill terrain)
20110813 22:45:33< zookeeper> durr.
20110813 22:47:54< zookeeper> strange. i was pretty sure i had added the forested hills originally, but looks like it was fendrin.
20110813 22:48:10< anonymissimus> zookeeper: re bug #16850
20110813 22:48:25< anonymissimus> would you mind won't fixing that ?
20110813 22:48:53< anonymissimus> since it makes the event less useful, is usually not noticable, and may break exisintg UMC
20110813 22:49:32< anonymissimus> enemies are still defeated in teh subsequent side turns aren't they ? xD
20110813 22:50:27< zookeeper> well, it can equally likely result in strange bugs if you make the reasonable assumption that it won't keep firing every turn
20110813 22:51:17< anonymissimus> well then why not document the behavior ? honestly, why woudl someone put the first_time_only=no into that event ?
20110813 22:52:20< anonymissimus> the event is fired from the check:victory function and it makes somehow sense to fire it from there since the neccessary calculations are made there anyway
20110813 22:52:22< zookeeper> because they have a scenario where enemy leaders keep spawning and something special happens every time they manage to kill all the ones in play?
20110813 22:52:40< anonymissimus> it is more difficult on teh C++ side than it looks from wml ;)
20110813 22:53:16< zookeeper> yeah, but that's a reason to postpone it, not to mark it as won't fix
20110813 22:53:17< anonymissimus> zookeeper: good idea, does it exist ? :P
20110813 22:53:22< zookeeper> no idea
20110813 22:53:32< anonymissimus> postponing stuff is bad
20110813 22:54:03< anonymissimus> it makes only sense if it is likely that something else which is in progress will fix it or make the fix easier
20110813 22:54:14< anonymissimus> which is nto teh case here
20110813 22:56:17< zookeeper> well, in any case, i'm getting the vibe that you want to close it just to lower the bugcount ;)
20110813 22:58:21< anonymissimus> I was just almost convinced to let it open :|
20110813 23:00:32< zookeeper> basically, i just don't see what sense it would make to declare the current behaviour the intended one... the benefits seem way more marginal than the drawbacks (if you have a scenario like in my example), and it's just more complicated on the WML side
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20110813 23:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 181 bugs, 328 feature requests, 19 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110813 23:36:33< CIA-57> alarantalara * r50748 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Fixed bug #18497: Wood & Stone Bridge graphics go under Swamp.
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--- Log closed Sun Aug 14 00:00:17 2011