--- Log opened Sat Aug 27 00:00:14 2011
20110827 00:02:25< CIA-22> espreon * r50931 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated the changelogs.
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20110827 00:11:36< tschmitz> Ivanovic, anyone: Is it OK if I set the default whiteboard preference to ON?
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20110827 00:13:52< Espreon> I say nay.
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20110827 00:25:00< boucman> Espreon: why ?
20110827 00:25:55< Espreon> Uh, maybe because it'd piss many people off (including me)?
20110827 00:26:25< boucman> Espreon: haing it as default would ? you would still be able to disable it...
20110827 00:26:57< tschmitz> if your preferences file is kept, I assume it would already be disabled even after changing the default
20110827 00:27:30< Espreon> ... I doubt anyone would want it to be enabled by default.
20110827 00:28:18< tschmitz> Well, my reason for wanting it enabled by default is to encourage people to test it in this dev release
20110827 00:28:46< Espreon> ... That's exactly what I thought.
20110827 00:29:04< boucman> I think it would be a good idea to enable it in the 1.9.x and decide if we want to keep it on by default in 1.10
20110827 00:29:11< Espreon> ...
20110827 00:29:15< boucman> ok, so we all agree ?
20110827 00:29:17< Espreon> Have I entered the Twilight Zone?
20110827 00:29:34< boucman> Espreon: I think it's more a case of IRC misunderstanding
20110827 00:29:59< Espreon> ... Right.
20110827 00:31:10< Espreon> tschmitz: You could always have Ivanovic mention that testing of the whiteboard would be highly appreciated.
20110827 00:32:27< Espreon> But... whatever.
20110827 00:32:29< tschmitz> Espreon: Whatever works, really
20110827 00:32:44< tschmitz> I just wrote the code
20110827 00:32:46< Espreon> I couldn't imagine it being enabled by default for 1.10.
20110827 00:33:36< boucman> tschmitz: is it enabled through command mode only, or is there a config option, or is it a right click menu option (like delayed shroud update)  ?
20110827 00:33:57< tschmitz> right click menu option like delay shroud updates
20110827 00:34:18< boucman> ok, so discoverability is good
20110827 00:34:25< Espreon> And I never saw DSU enabled by default.
20110827 00:34:28< boucman> in that case I don't think default matters much...
20110827 00:35:13< tschmitz> I also figured that if it was enabled by default, I would add that usage message back in
20110827 00:35:22< tschmitz> that pops up on using it
20110827 00:35:36< tschmitz> so that people know not only how to use it but also how to turn it off.
20110827 00:35:41< boucman> tschmitz: whatever is decided, you should add something wrt WB needing testing to RELEASE_NOTES
20110827 00:36:05< tschmitz> RELEASE_NOTES, ok
20110827 00:37:49< boucman> ok, I need to go to bed, see you all tomorow
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20110827 00:38:28< Gambit> >_>
20110827 00:38:31< tschmitz> Good night.
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20110827 00:38:52< Espreon> Gambit: Damn right.
20110827 00:38:54< Gambit> "removing delay shroud updates" just for the dev cycle became "Get rid of it entirely" all too easily.
20110827 00:39:23< Espreon> Well, apparently, Crab_'s going to craft aother version of it.
20110827 00:41:40< Gambit> I'm just saying there's probably something to be learned there.
20110827 00:43:25< tschmitz> Do you miss Delay Shroud Updates?
20110827 00:43:58< Gambit> Whiteboard is too much in multiplayer.
20110827 00:44:03< Espreon> Those who actually used it miss it.
20110827 00:44:08 * Espreon agrees with Gambit
20110827 00:44:15< Gambit> Multiplayer Wesnoth games already take longer than most people like.
20110827 00:44:30< Espreon> Note that I used DSU sometimes.
20110827 00:44:40< Espreon> I can see why people'd get pissed off about its removal.
20110827 00:45:27< tschmitz> I think we were hoping to speed up multiplayer games with the whiteboard
20110827 00:45:34 * Espreon laughs
20110827 00:45:51< Espreon> You're joking, right?
20110827 00:45:59< tschmitz> No, of course not
20110827 00:46:15< tschmitz> the feature that would speed it up would be out-of-turn planning
20110827 00:46:33< Gambit> Okay well without that it doesn't work.
20110827 00:46:43< Gambit> And it's rather conflict prone to plan too far ahead.
20110827 00:46:51< Gambit> And Wesnoth has too many variables to plan too far ahead.
20110827 00:46:52< tschmitz> Its other features would slow down gameplay, I agree.
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20110827 00:47:52< tschmitz> And the thing I didn't like about Delay Shroud Updates was that it was impossible to get Unit Sighted interruptions
20110827 00:48:17< tschmitz> Not that I really play Wesnoth, but ...
20110827 00:49:11< tschmitz> Crab_'s idea, as I recall, was to dress up the whiteboard to look and feel more like Delay Shroud Updates
20110827 00:51:42< tschmitz> Presumably it would just require changing the way plans are displayed on the screen and an implicit Execute-All when End Turn is pressed
20110827 00:52:29< tschmitz> The whiteboard art needs an upgrade regardless.
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20110827 01:44:11< CIA-22> tschmitz * r50932 /trunk/src/ (game_preferences_display.cpp whiteboard/manager.cpp): Added hide_whiteboard to general preferences.
20110827 01:44:21< CIA-22> tschmitz * r50933 /trunk/src/whiteboard/ (manager.cpp manager.hpp): Fixed: hide_whiteboard preference does nothing.
20110827 01:44:36< CIA-22> tschmitz * r50934 /trunk/src/whiteboard/highlight_visitor.cpp: Fixed crash from ghosted-unit-bugfix.
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20110827 01:49:41< Ivanovic> tschmitz: if you want the code to be explicitly mentioned in the announcement: add some paragraph to RELEASE_NOTES
20110827 01:50:34< tschmitz> Ivanovic: Thanks, boucman told me that too
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20110827 05:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 177 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110827 06:16:24< CIA-22> espreon * r50935 /trunk/changelog: Updated changelog to mention the new wolf units.
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20110827 06:53:12< ancestral> wesbot: seen Blueblaze
20110827 06:53:12< wesbot> ancestral: The person with the nick Blueblaze 8d 11h ago they left the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev:
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20110827 10:20:18< Ivanovic> moin
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20110827 10:22:45< CIA-22> ivanovic * r50936 /trunk/ (818 files in 49 dirs): 
20110827 10:22:46< CIA-22> pot-update
20110827 10:22:46< CIA-22> regenerated doc files (many manpages are not complete enough for generation anymore!)
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20110827 11:15:48< thonsew> mordante,  In answer to your questions of yesterday.
20110827 11:16:35< thonsew> I submitted the code on behalf of brilliand and I should have caught the uninitialized buffer.
20110827 11:17:10< thonsew> I agree that it should use to 2 member vectors instead of inheritance.
20110827 11:18:29< thonsew> It ended up that way because it started life as a simple vector and then I modified it
20110827 11:19:04< thonsew> to prevent unique event configs from existing multiple times as event_handlers.
20110827 11:20:11< thonsew> I posted this as a patch, which brilliand further modifed to use event ids and
20110827 11:20:53< thonsew> allow for deletion of events.
20110827 11:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 178 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110827 11:40:12< zookeeper> thonsew, "prevent unique event configs from existing multiple times as event_handlers" <- i hope that only applies to events which specify an id?
20110827 11:40:26< CIA-22> ivanovic * r50937 /trunk/ (13 files in 2 dirs): 
20110827 11:40:26< CIA-22> applied utils/wesnoth-optipng
20110827 11:40:26< CIA-22> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20110827 11:40:26< CIA-22> Original size: 32 KiB on 13 files
20110827 11:40:26< CIA-22> Optimized size: 18 KiB
20110827 11:40:27< CIA-22> Total saving: 13 KiB = 42% decrease
20110827 11:40:51< Crendgrim> hm... may anyone explain me how to use wmlscope?
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20110827 11:44:09< Crendgrim> it says in its help "If no directories are given, all files under the current directory are checked."
20110827 11:44:28< Crendgrim> however, if I run wmlscope inside my campaign directory, it crashes with an error message..
20110827 11:46:32< Crendgrim> ah, got it
20110827 11:47:00< Crendgrim> may anyone with SVN write access fix file "data/tools/wesnoth/wmltools.py"?
20110827 11:47:32< Crendgrim> it looks as if lines 630 and 631 aren't indented far enough (missing one level)..
20110827 11:51:07< Crendgrim> the whole file looks weird
20110827 11:51:33< Crendgrim> on line 30 there is a else block which isn't reachable if I see it correctly..
20110827 11:52:54< thonsew> zookeeper, I submitted the patch that you commented on exactly as brilliand submitted it.
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20110827 12:54:34< zookeeper> thonsew, well, yes, his description of the patch is how it's supposed to work, i was just checking now that you worded it differently.
20110827 12:56:27< thonsew> zookeeper, Sorry about that.  I was trying to explain why brilliand ended up publicly inheriting 
20110827 12:56:52< thonsew> from std::vector when they wrote their patch.
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20110827 13:50:07< Soliton> Crendgrim: both are correct and intended. you have to be a bit more specific about what's wrong.
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20110827 13:59:52< Crendgrim> Soliton: well, on line 631 a variable "args" is being accessed which is declared only in the "else" block before, that's why I thought there may be one indentation level missing..
20110827 14:00:23< Crendgrim> and regarding line 30, under which circumstances can the else block be reached? 
20110827 14:01:18< Soliton> http://psung.blogspot.com/2007/12/for-else-in-python.html
20110827 14:01:23< Crendgrim> ahh, nice
20110827 14:01:40< Crendgrim> okay, but the first one is still wrong (and fires an error message)
20110827 14:02:02< Soliton> the args stuff is new, let's see where that comes from...
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20110827 14:08:35< Soliton> r23556 introduced that issue with args. gotta ask esr what the idea was there.
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20110827 14:09:01< esr> Soliton: ?
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20110827 14:34:17< anonymissimus> tschmitz: there's a reason not to enable whiteboard by default - it is way too compilcated for beginner players
20110827 14:36:00< anonymissimus> and DSU is an absolute neccessity, I believe hardly any of the ladder players (that is, experienced ones) do not use it
20110827 14:36:56< anonymissimus> the whiteboard is still not actually working, so I feel very umcomfortable about Crab's idea for a DSU emulation relying on it
20110827 14:37:32< anonymissimus> and I'm always compiling an extra binary with DSU enabled when I need one for playing
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20110827 19:01:40< tschmitz> anonymissimus: Around?
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20110827 19:05:03< tschmitz> How about boucman, Espreon, or Gambit?
20110827 19:06:33< Gambit> Hi
20110827 19:07:01< tschmitz> Gambit: Want to play a game with the whiteboard?
20110827 19:07:06< tschmitz> trunk
20110827 19:07:19< Gambit> I can't right now. Sorry.
20110827 19:07:26< tschmitz> No worries.
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20110827 20:24:44< CIA-22> anonymissimus * r50938 /trunk/data/campaigns/Dead_Water/scenarios/13_Epilogue.cfg: 
20110827 20:24:44< CIA-22> converted old result=continue_no_save syntax
20110827 20:24:44< CIA-22> fix for a bug report in the forum: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34854&p=504420#p504420
20110827 20:25:41< anonymissimus> tschmitz: not interested sry
20110827 20:26:05< anonymissimus> I dont see the deifference to you working with several clients btw
20110827 20:26:37< anonymissimus> just start up 2-4 wesnoth instances btu you probably already know anyway
20110827 20:28:28< tschmitz> The main material difference is having another body so planning is actually happening simultaneously -- when I do it by myself, I can only input plans on one client at a time
20110827 20:29:07< tschmitz> The other difference is that other people would play wesnoth differently and more closely to reality than I would
20110827 20:29:45< tschmitz> Additionally, I enjoy having more people involved in my work than just myself.
20110827 20:31:15< tschmitz> Another thing, which you might be able to do without having to test again, is that you could tell me what needs to change before you consider it a pleasure to use the whiteboard rather than a nuisance, anonymissimus.
20110827 20:38:14< Crendgrim> anonymissimus: so, continue_no_save doesn't work anymore?
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20110827 21:14:35< Alarantalara> Ivanovic: regarding a 1.9.9 release, I'm going camping starting in a few hours for a week, so I wouldn't be able to create a Mac OS X package until September 6
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20110827 21:57:09< Espreon> anonymissimus: Did you see my comments on your fix to that bug?
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20110827 22:12:32< Espreon> tschmitz: I'm around.
20110827 22:13:07< tschmitz> Espreon: Want to play a whiteboard game?
20110827 22:13:18< Espreon> Uh... maybe...
20110827 22:13:23< Espreon> Lemme svn up and recompile first.
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20110827 22:48:30< Ivanovic> Alarantalara: okay, good to know
20110827 22:48:37< Ivanovic> then i'll wait a little longer with 1.9.9
20110827 23:26:29-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 177 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110827 23:31:18< CIA-22> ivanovic * r50939 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated French translation
--- Log closed Sun Aug 28 00:00:14 2011