--- Log opened Wed Sep 07 00:00:00 2011
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20110907 01:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.9, announcing "soon" | 182 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110907 09:18:58< Ivanovic> moin
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20110907 09:28:04< Ivanovic> Rhonda: so are the debian binaries ready?
20110907 09:28:21< Ivanovic> Soliton: is the mp server already switched to only accept 1.9.9?
20110907 09:28:58< shadowmaster> thought there wasn't a working Mac OS X package yet
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20110907 09:30:52< Ivanovic> there is one
20110907 09:31:33< Ivanovic> http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.9.9/
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20110907 10:18:18< CIA-22> elvish_hunter * r51043 /trunk/data/campaigns/Descent_Into_Darkness/scenarios/07_A_Small_Favor.cfg: DiD: added 24 hour ToD in A Small Favor
20110907 10:22:05< CIA-22> elvish_hunter * r51044 /trunk/data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/05_To_the_Harbor_of_Tirigaz.cfg: SotBE: added 24 hour ToD in To the Harbor of Tirigaz
20110907 10:27:38< CIA-22> elvish_hunter * r51045 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Changelog entries for commits above
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20110907 10:35:47< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Yes, they are. :D
20110907 10:36:49< Ivanovic> Rhonda: and all architectures are working now?
20110907 10:37:15< Rhonda> Ivanovic: https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=wesnoth-1.9&suite=sid
20110907 10:37:33< Rhonda> Only mips not built yet, but I am confident that the build issue is solved.
20110907 10:37:51< Rhonda> and powerpc will be uploaded soonish hopefully, seems like that arch doesn't do autosigning
20110907 10:38:19< Ivanovic> cool!
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20110907 14:23:53< Nihathrael> hey everyone, is there somebody here who would say he knows the software architecture of wesnoth good enough to have a small chat about it?
20110907 14:23:58< Nihathrael> i'm mainly interested if you are using a component based approach or a inheritance based approach
20110907 14:24:05< Nihathrael> i am evaluating our architecture at Unknown Horizons, so i thought it couldn't be too bad to look at some external projects :)
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20110907 14:43:14< Ivanovic> the wesnoth approach is clearly evolutionary
20110907 14:44:04< Ivanovic> there is no "greater plan" behind things and people just work on the areas they want to work on
20110907 14:44:10< Ivanovic> using what they think fits there
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20110907 14:53:10< elias> it certainly uses both components and inheritance: http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/inherits.html
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20110907 14:56:45< Rhonda> Nihathrael: File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/horizons/world/units/weaponholder.py", line 39, class WeaponHolder(object): SyntaxError  :)
20110907 14:56:55< Rhonda> Nihathrael: … and some more, when installing the weekly build
20110907 14:57:22< Nihathrael> is that on the debian packages?
20110907 14:57:27< Rhonda> yes
20110907 14:57:33< Nihathrael> i'll tell the maintainer
20110907 14:57:53< Rhonda> And would you (or someone else from your team) be interested in joining #debian-games on OFTC.  ;)
20110907 14:58:11< Nihathrael> is chrisoph_debian already there perhabs?
20110907 14:58:17< Rhonda> yes
20110907 14:58:23< Nihathrael> he is the debian package maintainer for UH
20110907 14:58:27< Rhonda> christoph is part of our team, is he around in your channels?
20110907 14:58:41< Nihathrael> and hosts the package repository
20110907 14:58:54< Rhonda> ah, then I bug him directly. :)
20110907 14:59:32< Rhonda> Though it doesn't look like that errors are packaging related?
20110907 14:59:44< Rhonda> Anyway, we are offtopic with that here, so I drop it
20110907 15:00:45< Nihathrael> those clearly shouldn't be happening and they don't happen in trunk
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20110907 15:02:29< Nihathrael> Ivanovic / elias: i'm mostly interested in the architecture for units etc, but from what i can see it is more of a component based approach, so a unit has some movement, graphics etc. There are no classes for every unit type
20110907 15:03:11< Nihathrael> we use tons of mulitple inheritance at UH, which seemed like a good idea at the time we started, but yea, it really isn't^^
20110907 15:03:29< elias> WML/Lua handle most of the actual things
20110907 15:03:40< elias> the C++ code is more just an engine
20110907 15:03:54< Ivanovic> Nihathrael: all the units and scenarios are defined completed in WML
20110907 15:03:59< Ivanovic> so they just use some normal markup
20110907 15:04:19< Nihathrael> yea, so it is completely markup driven, which is very nice
20110907 15:04:49< Ivanovic> sure, there are some "default configurations" eg for movement types that are used "many times", but it is still markup driven
20110907 15:06:18< Nihathrael> i would like to move UHs code much more in that direction
20110907 15:06:25< loonycyborg> Nihathrael: Since UH is written entirely in python it's hard to compare designs.
20110907 15:07:24< Nihathrael> I agree,but the general approach is what i'm interested in. I have to write a pretty big report for the university where i would like to present a few different options "in use today" so to say
20110907 15:07:32< loonycyborg> E.g. It's actually possible to use dedicated classes for units etc :P
20110907 15:08:01< Nihathrael> and then see what i can use to improve how UH is built
20110907 15:08:06< loonycyborg> If wesnoth tried to use it in C++ there would be almost no extensibility.
20110907 15:08:24< Nihathrael> well, i don't think it is that different for uH
20110907 15:09:00< Nihathrael> of course python is written a lot quicker, but having dedicated classes is a mess
20110907 15:09:28< Nihathrael> especially because the inheritance tree can involve like 20 classes or so, making a huge initialization problem
20110907 15:09:30< Nephro> loonycyborg, the current AI is written in C++
20110907 15:09:45< Nephro> that is, if I got the idea how things work now correctly
20110907 15:10:24< Ivanovic> Nihathrael: yeah, inheritance is easilly shown by the example "lets assume a game and inherit stuff, this makes it freaking easy to define slight variations!"
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20110907 15:10:34< Ivanovic> but in real life it is often not what you really want
20110907 15:10:50< Nihathrael> yea that is exactly how it evolved at UH
20110907 15:11:23< Ivanovic> sadly in real life it is easier to do "rather full configs" per thing you want
20110907 15:11:52< Ivanovic> simply using some general basic abstractions (like the movement types that are shared between many units in wesnoth) and defining all the rest manually
20110907 15:12:44< loonycyborg> Both approaches have their uses. They aren't antithetical.
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20110907 19:24:01< fabi> hello
20110907 19:24:12< fabi> noy: around?
20110907 19:24:23< noy> yes
20110907 19:24:36< fabi> Nice
20110907 19:24:51< fabi> I have some updates on the liminal alignment.
20110907 19:26:33< fabi> Making a custom system for alignments isn't that easy, mostly not for the thing itself but because of all sorts of side effects, like always :-)
20110907 19:26:47< noy> fabi: are you fendrin/
20110907 19:26:56< fabi> noy: Yes, that is right.
20110907 19:26:59< noy> hahahahahaha
20110907 19:27:04< noy> I never knew that
20110907 19:27:07< noy> in all this time
20110907 19:27:09< noy> that's hilarious
20110907 19:27:16< noy> anyway
20110907 19:27:29< noy> so is it ready?
20110907 19:27:34< fabi> No.
20110907 19:27:49< fabi> But I will patch my first implementation in.
20110907 19:28:04< fabi> That will only hardcode the liminal alignment.
20110907 19:33:47< fabi> If you decide to use the new alignment I will see to get the hardcoded alignment in a non hacky state for the 1.10 release.
20110907 19:34:12< fabi> If not I am going to remove the feature again.
20110907 19:34:16< fabi> noy: okay?
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20110907 19:38:54< noy> sorry... laundry called
20110907 19:39:06< noy> sounds good
20110907 19:39:09< noy> we will use it actually
20110907 19:39:42< noy> I guess it won't be included until the next branch version?
20110907 19:40:08< fabi> 1.9.10 will include it.
20110907 19:40:23< fabi> But you should test it with current trunk and give me feedback.
20110907 19:41:06< fabi> You don't run self compiled versions?
20110907 19:41:47< fabi> Then I suggest to use an old version, one where the alignment was still in the codebase.
20110907 19:41:55< noy> I don't
20110907 19:42:49< fabi> I think 1.9.7 does still include it.
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20110907 19:53:24< fabi> noy: I was wrong. you need 1.9.6.
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20110907 21:46:34< Ivanovic> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34947
20110907 21:46:38-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 182 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110907 22:59:04< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: do you know how the rss feed on the frontpage is supposed to work?
20110907 22:59:29< shadowmaster> uh, no, I thought you knew that
20110907 22:59:40< Ivanovic> no, i don't
20110907 22:59:50< Ivanovic> never had anything to do with rss stuff
20110907 22:59:55< shadowmaster> then who added the original link in the metadata?
20110907 22:59:56< Ivanovic> i just see that it seems to, uhm, not work
20110907 23:00:01< Ivanovic> i have *NO* idea
20110907 23:00:05< Ivanovic> was it sirp?
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20110907 23:00:48< shadowmaster> I guess you could ask him
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20110907 23:20:58< Gambit> We could have our own...
20110907 23:24:12< shadowmaster> in the worst case I can create a need feed with a different name like "wesnoth-news" in feed43.com since I just registered an account here, and share the feed password to avoid a similar situation in the future
20110907 23:24:18< shadowmaster> s/need/new/
20110907 23:25:03< shadowmaster> that would still require peope to update their feed link in their aggregators
20110907 23:29:17< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: just share the password in the moderators forum
20110907 23:29:29< Ivanovic> in the "who to contact" thread that should still be there
20110907 23:29:52< Ivanovic> though for the moment we can just wait for sirp to react, this is nothing urgent
20110907 23:30:15< shadowmaster> yeah, that was the worst case scenario
20110907 23:30:35< shadowmaster> like "oops, it turns out that the person who created the feed is MIA" (think cycholka)
20110907 23:31:04< shadowmaster> or "oops, the person who created the feed forgot both his email address and password"
20110907 23:31:36< Ivanovic> :)
20110907 23:31:38< Gambit> Another option is mirroring the homepage announcements exactly on a forum and using its built in feed stuff.
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20110907 23:32:53< Gambit> They can get email subscription from us too in that case.
20110907 23:34:13< Ivanovic> and what if the news is "the forums are currently down because of ABC"?
20110907 23:34:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20110907 23:39:27< Gambit> Do the forums often go down independently of the website?
20110907 23:39:43< Gambit> 2008 aside.
20110907 23:42:43< Gambit> And have we ever announced forum downtime on the homepage?
20110907 23:42:54< Gambit> oh yes
20110907 23:42:57< Gambit> There's one there right now
20110907 23:43:00< Gambit> Haha
20110907 23:47:23< Ivanovic> Gambit: the main frontpage is just a static html page
20110907 23:47:30< Ivanovic> that one can always be up when apache runs
20110907 23:47:40< Gambit> Right.
20110907 23:47:47< Ivanovic> the forums on the other hand require maintainance every now and than or there can be a problem with the mxsql database
20110907 23:47:48< Gambit> Our rss feed is actually a third party site parsing that.
20110907 23:47:51< Ivanovic> s/x/y
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 08 00:00:02 2011