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20110915 10:02:32< Ivanovic> moin
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20110915 10:33:10< enchilado> moin
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20110915 11:22:38< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Did anyone close all fixed bugs after 1.9.9?
20110915 11:29:16< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: uhm, good question
20110915 11:31:23< loonycyborg> At least there's one assigned to me that wasn't
20110915 11:31:35< Ivanovic> then most likely noone did so
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20110915 15:08:58< _jay> hey all, I recall seeing a list of sprite animations that showed what was complete/incomplete, can someone point me to it?
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20110915 15:15:25< zookeeper> _jay, i'm not sure if any of the lists on the forum are really up-to-date...
20110915 15:15:45< zookeeper> here's one thread, anyway: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21512
20110915 15:16:17< _jay> http://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/animations.html  is this accurate?
20110915 15:17:05< zookeeper> probably yes, but that of course doesn't include animations currently being worked on by someone
20110915 15:17:16< zookeeper> the general art help thread would be here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2014
20110915 15:18:35< zookeeper> any particular unit/animation in mind?
20110915 15:19:17< _jay> No, just wanted to get my hands dirty
20110915 15:19:44< _jay> I downloaded pixen last night and wanted to play with it
20110915 15:20:28< _jay> zookeeper do you work on the sprites?
20110915 15:20:57< zookeeper> not much, and practically not at all anymore
20110915 15:21:14< zookeeper> i've just done some basic animations mostly
20110915 15:22:54< _jay> what app do you use?
20110915 15:23:19< zookeeper> paint shop pro x before, but i guess if i did something now i'd use paint.net
20110915 15:23:44< _jay> i'm curious about the gimp workflow, I assume one just uses layers as frames
20110915 15:24:20< zookeeper> well you don't really need animation support, since the frames are saved as individual .png's
20110915 15:24:46< zookeeper> the animation timing and such are defined in the unit's .cfg files
20110915 15:25:01< _jay> yeah, but I man on checking on timing/onionskinning
20110915 15:25:07< _jay> neam^
20110915 15:25:09< _jay> heh
20110915 15:25:44< zookeeper> well, yeah, i don't know/remember what GIMP can do in that regard
20110915 15:26:13< _jay> I need to dig into the files is all
20110915 15:28:30< _jay> thanks for the info though
20110915 15:29:01< zookeeper> if you want to be given something that no one's working on, then i can find something
20110915 15:29:20< zookeeper> but if you're not in a hurry, you could just start a thread on the forums and ask for recommendations
20110915 15:29:34< zookeeper> (the art contrib forum)
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20110915 15:32:00< _jay> if you can find something that would be great, I'm sure it would be faster than asking- usually on the forums you just get pointed to the threads you posted
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20110915 15:32:11< zookeeper> sure, give me a minute...
20110915 15:34:39< zookeeper> (or two, or three)
20110915 15:35:01< _jay> heh no problem,it's breakfast time anyway
20110915 15:37:05< zookeeper> _jay, the mage death animations would be one: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14780
20110915 15:37:45< _jay> ok great, nice and simple too, those are just 2 frame animations right?
20110915 15:37:58< _jay> hmm, 4
20110915 15:37:59< zookeeper> i'm not sure what the status is with the mage and red mage animations, since those seem to have been at least partially completed but not committed, but at least silver mage, white mage, mage of light, arch mage and great mage i don't recall anyone seeing working on
20110915 15:38:00< _jay> cool
20110915 15:38:13< _jay> thanks
20110915 15:38:16< zookeeper> i'll check what the recommended frame count is, jsut a moment..
20110915 15:38:48< _jay> it says 6-8 actually
20110915 15:38:52< _jay> in the thread
20110915 15:39:00< _jay> big drama
20110915 15:39:08< zookeeper> yeah
20110915 15:39:16< _jay> great
20110915 15:39:53< zookeeper> have you read any jetrel's posts about how to block animations?
20110915 15:41:15< _jay> I'm pretty sure I did, I was poking around there last night
20110915 15:42:37< zookeeper> ok, great. apparently blocking is really a good approach to use in this stuff.
20110915 15:44:45< _jay> thanks again zookeeper
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20110915 16:17:06< Espreon> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=507154&sid=98e1cfc1e93966c96d9fc5e960fdab8a#p507154 ... Well, looks like we'll need gettext plurals support in Lua too.
20110915 16:17:29< Espreon> AI0867; anonymissimus: ^
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20110915 16:58:47< Espreon> fendrin: Elvish_Hunter's here.
20110915 17:01:20< AI0867> crash when running the tutorial: http://pastebin.com/RFqtiurc
20110915 17:02:02< Espreon> thonsew: ^
20110915 17:04:37< Elvish_Hunter> fendrin: if you have any question about [harm_unit], please send me a PM, as I don't have much time today.
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20110915 18:05:23< anonymissimus> Espreon: I dont understand, "gettext plurals" ?
20110915 18:06:14< anonymissimus> are there languages in which the translation of "turns" in "x turns" depends on what number x is ?
20110915 18:06:35< anonymissimus> (what a weird language xD)
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20110915 18:07:36< zookeeper> i wrote that bit of lua, but didn't reply because frankly i know nothing of gettext plurals and all that.
20110915 18:09:29< anonymissimus> well, the start point is probably incestigating how the analogue thing in the C++ engine works
20110915 18:10:33< anonymissimus> afterwards its hopefully easy to solve, so can you name an example for the issue where the string is in the C++ code ? if so, please file a feature request
20110915 18:10:56< anonymissimus> (or let that poster do it)
20110915 18:11:54< anonymissimus> zookeeper: could you look at http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=506988&sid=0377351a1b7a5e996c0e187991375405#p506988 whether you have a better idea how the "enemy_of" things could be coded, or named ?
20110915 18:12:25< anonymissimus> if we have enemy_of we could just as well have allied_with and such, maybe that can be combined
20110915 18:13:10< Soliton> yes, there are languages with different cases for "x turns".
20110915 18:15:14< zookeeper> anonymissimus, well, i'd rather have an enemy_of= key in [filter_side] than a dedicated subtag... unless i'm missing something.
20110915 18:16:07< anonymissimus> zookeeper: but a subtag makes much more sense; in a key you'd have to specify sides as numbers
20110915 18:17:34< zookeeper> but... what's wrong with specifying sides as numbers, if [enemy_of] wouldn't take a SUF anyway?
20110915 18:17:48< anonymissimus> it would take a SSF
20110915 18:18:17< zookeeper> ok, so what does SSF take?
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20110915 18:18:34< anonymissimus> so you could also put [has_unit] into it, team_name= or side=
20110915 18:19:12< zookeeper> right
20110915 18:19:15< zookeeper> ok, a subtag then
20110915 18:20:37< anonymissimus> I hope I can test that at all wiht the current engine...
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20110915 18:21:23< zookeeper> oh, wow, i had totally forgotten/missed that SSF was already in -.-
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20110915 18:27:51< Soliton> anonymissimus: you're probably looking for vngettext() or _n() invocations.
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20110915 19:02:16< anonymissimus> zookeeper: , Soliton , Espreon : how is that thing handled in wml ? shouldnt there be the same problem ?
20110915 19:02:46< anonymissimus> since there can be as well something like _"$x turns remaining"
20110915 19:03:29< zookeeper> yeah, i have no idea. i'm guessing it isn't.
20110915 19:03:36< zookeeper> (handled, that is)
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20110915 19:07:40< anonymissimus> solving it would probably require exposing this vngettext function and require a paralle structure to the _/wesnoth.textdomain/#textdomain something system
20110915 19:08:39< anonymissimus> a string which might contain a plural which has different translations in some languages depending on how many of it is there would need this paralles underscore I guess
20110915 19:09:01< anonymissimus> I doubt that it's worth this, and wml doesnt have it anyway
20110915 19:09:45< Espreon> anonymissimus: It isn't handled in WML.
20110915 19:09:53< Espreon> ... even though it should.
20110915 19:09:59< Espreon> And an FR's been around for years.
20110915 19:10:22< Espreon> And I need plurals support for my dual pronouns.
20110915 19:12:02< anonymissimus> well then, why don't you go coding it ? xD
20110915 19:12:12< Espreon> Because I can't, you fool.
20110915 19:12:16< anonymissimus> if you want something, DIY you know
20110915 19:12:29< Espreon> I would if I could.
20110915 19:12:37< anonymissimus> since none does it for you
20110915 19:12:55< Espreon> anonymissimus: What does the phrase "I can't" mean to you?
20110915 19:12:59< Espreon> Apparently nothing.
20110915 19:13:09< Espreon> ... from my experience.
20110915 19:13:17< anonymissimus> if it looks like it, that one usually also needs it himself
20110915 19:13:33< Espreon> Of course Irish needs it.
20110915 19:13:46< Espreon> I bet all the Celtic languages need it.
20110915 19:13:57< Espreon> I think Icelandic needs it as well.
20110915 19:14:21< Espreon> But, Polarina's not around to smack you.
20110915 19:14:38< Espreon> And Mountain_King doesn't come here.
20110915 19:25:27< anonymissimus> Espreon: you'r "I can't" sounds like an excuse for "please do my work for me", that is...
20110915 19:27:35< Espreon> I don't know how you can't understand this.
20110915 19:27:53< Espreon> I shan't talk about it anymore.
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20110915 19:40:42< Soliton> there is nothing to understand since there are no reasons given. there is just blind acceptance of the statement from an obviously biased party. :-P
20110915 19:41:54< Espreon> I can't read C++ and I don't understand it. Also, I don't understand the technical workings of gettext.
20110915 19:43:13< Espreon> I'm just not going to talk about this anymore.
20110915 19:43:56< Soliton> ...which reads as "I don't want to put any work into solving this problem".
20110915 19:44:00< anonymissimus> I can honestly say about myself the same sentence
20110915 19:44:21< anonymissimus> lol soliton I like you xD
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20110915 19:45:53< Gallaecio> anonymissimus, Soliton: Could you point me out to the part of the code where this could be solved?
20110915 19:46:05< Gallaecio> Just to have a look, I don’t think I can do a shit.
20110915 19:46:25< Espreon> Soliton: I haven't the time nor the energy.
20110915 19:46:46< anonymissimus> Gallaecio: well, search for the function names mentioned by Soliton in the C++ code
20110915 19:46:56< anonymissimus> how they are used
20110915 19:47:15< Gallaecio> Mentioned where? I just got in :(
20110915 19:47:20< Gallaecio> ok
20110915 19:47:23< anonymissimus> and then examine the structure silene created for the wesnoth.textdomain function
20110915 19:47:27< Soliton> Espreon: see, i'm sure that's something anonymissimus can accept. :-)
20110915 19:47:36< Espreon> I doubt that.
20110915 19:47:56< Espreon> He can't accept anything but the silly idea that I can program.
20110915 19:48:32< anonymissimus> in lua.cpp
20110915 19:48:52< anonymissimus> so thats about how I could be done I guess, for the lua part
20110915 19:49:00< anonymissimus> it, not I
20110915 19:49:30< anonymissimus> Espreon: actuayll, "not the energy" is ok for me
20110915 19:49:45< anonymissimus> since I think that you can code, actually
20110915 19:50:42< Soliton> s/can/can learn to/
20110915 19:51:26< Espreon> Soliton: There ya go!
20110915 19:51:59< Espreon> That's it.
20110915 19:52:10< Espreon> Now anonymissimus must take in that concept.
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20110915 20:22:27< timotei> Espreon: if you don't want to start with C++ You can try java first
20110915 20:22:36< timotei> You could then help me at the UMC IDE :P
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20110915 20:28:21< anonymissimus> Espreon: yes, that could be an option
20110915 20:29:06< anonymissimus> especially since eclipse-java is about the best overall IDE I've ever seen
20110915 20:29:15< timotei> anonymissimus: really? :P
20110915 20:29:22< timotei> Just nobody uses it :(
20110915 20:29:23< anonymissimus> and it runs as well on Linux as on windows
20110915 20:29:55< anonymissimus> yes I think eclipse is the best IDE, for java at least
20110915 20:30:08< anonymissimus> and its used for commercial software as well
20110915 20:30:08< timotei> anonymissimus: ah, nevermind. I thought you were speaking about the umc ide :))
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20110915 20:30:38< timotei> Going back to VS after using Eclipse intensively, I must admit that the feeling is not as good 
20110915 20:30:52< timotei> That is, VS < Eclipse for the moment
20110915 20:31:06< anonymissimus> for other languages it looses lots of its power
20110915 20:31:24< timotei> Of course. Only the Java support is officially supported
20110915 20:31:25< timotei> xD
20110915 20:31:37< anonymissimus> and I will try your wml ide timotei , just gave the feeling you are still fixing bugs
20110915 20:31:43< timotei> Yeah
20110915 20:31:44< anonymissimus> have
20110915 20:31:57< timotei> Not really fixing bugs, but polishing stuff
20110915 20:32:13< timotei> At least I've trimmed the tasks down to 3-4
20110915 20:32:14< timotei> xD
20110915 20:32:36< anonymissimus> and also that the autocompletion is still not yet as good since schema.cfg is too weak, and this feature is especially important for me
20110915 20:32:37< timotei> Yay, burning Windows 8 Dev preview on USB
20110915 20:33:09< timotei> For those interested: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/br229516
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20110915 20:43:15< anonymissimus> Espreon: actually, aren't you already learning lua ? java is easier than lua imho
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20110915 21:03:16< CIA-7> ivanovic * r51193 /trunk/ (27 files in 25 dirs): updated Czech and Galician translation
20110915 21:17:30< Espreon> anonymissimus: Wesnoth-oriented Lua.
20110915 21:18:58< Espreon> anonymissimus: Why would I learn Java? I have no use for it.
20110915 21:19:37< Espreon> timotei: No thanks.
20110915 21:19:48< timotei> :P
20110915 21:19:55< Espreon> Sorry.
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20110915 21:23:47< Espreon> anonymissimus: You see, I can only adequately learn these types of things if I can immediately work with them. Therefore WML and Lua work for me.
20110915 21:25:30< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51194 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: insert missing helptip + tooltip (fix for bug #18660)
20110915 21:25:44< anonymissimus> well...of course...
20110915 21:26:53< Espreon> I could only work with it in one limited area.
20110915 21:27:04< Espreon> anonymissimus: ... And you know what area that is.
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20110915 21:37:31< anonymissimus> damn, timotei I just tried dcommit and then it warned about local changes that would get overwritten
20110915 21:37:38< anonymissimus> in changelog, though I have none
20110915 21:37:59< anonymissimus> now I have an auto-created new branch it seems
20110915 21:38:19< anonymissimus> when I used git rebase --abort afetr the error
20110915 21:38:49< Soliton> why do you think that?
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20110915 21:40:19< anonymissimus> hm tortoise git shows trunk and master
20110915 21:41:23< anonymissimus> somehow it doesnt seem to like changelog modifications even though there is not really a conflcit
20110915 21:43:24< timotei> anonymissimus: wow, I don't risk using GUI tools really :))
20110915 21:43:31< timotei> The command line usually tells me enough info
20110915 21:43:58< timotei> anonymissimus: maybe it's refering to line endings... But really, it can't create a new branch
20110915 21:43:59< timotei> :P
20110915 21:44:07< timotei> It's just an "intermmediate" one 
20110915 21:44:15< timotei> when doing rebase and there are conflicts
20110915 21:44:20< timotei> just fix them and commit
20110915 21:44:22< timotei> and continue
20110915 21:44:28< timotei> git rebase --continue iirc
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20110915 21:58:41< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51195 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: added support for SSF to SUF via a [filter_side] subtag
20110915 21:58:43< anonymissimus> solved it
20110915 21:58:54< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51196 /trunk/src/side_filter.cpp: added support for [enemy_of]<SSF> to SSF
20110915 21:59:12< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51197 /trunk/changelog: changelog update
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20110915 22:16:59< CIA-7> thonsew * r51199 /trunk/src/ (config.cpp config.hpp): Moved the Mandatory WML child exception back into the object file where it belongs. It is faster to attach a breakpoint to, because it isn't inline.
20110915 22:17:01< CIA-7> thonsew * r51198 /trunk/utils/gdb/ (4 files): 
20110915 22:17:01< CIA-7> Created gdb pretty printers for wesnoth data types t_interned, t_token, t_string, config and config::attribute_value.
20110915 22:17:01< CIA-7> Create pretty printers for boost::unordered_map.
20110915 22:17:06< CIA-7> thonsew * r51200 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp variable.cpp): Fixed handling of force_valid in variable.cpp to correctly account for the difference between created array and plain variables.
20110915 22:19:37< anonymissimus> thonsew: you've seen my log message yesterday ?
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20110915 22:19:50< thonsew> anonymissimus, Yes.
20110915 22:20:10< thonsew> anonymissimus, I think that there are 2 different issues:
20110915 22:21:32< thonsew> 1. Should I/we be using exceptions in variables.cpp.  I think so because when there is a parsing error, each error type is unique and must abort the parsing and should convey information to a handler somewhere to do something about it.  That suggests exceptions to me.
20110915 22:21:37< anonymissimus> hm everything that eases debugging is good
20110915 22:21:47< anonymissimus> "pretty printers" :)
20110915 22:23:13< anonymissimus> well, if I can avoid using "throw" in C++ then I do it, since it skips code which ought to be executed
20110915 22:23:29< thonsew> 2. Should the errors be going to the console or the wesnoth chat log.  I thought as you do that they should be going to the console out of the sight of players, but somewhere that content creators would look.  however, I chatted with Espreon and he thinks that the warnings deserve higher visibility on the wesnoth chat screen.  I don't know what the correct answer is.
20110915 22:23:38< anonymissimus> silene: "The engine is not exception-safe"
20110915 22:23:51< anonymissimus> even though it's demanded by the coding standards
20110915 22:24:56< anonymissimus> thonsew: but to make them visible on the chat screen you dont need exceptions
20110915 22:25:42< anonymissimus> also, having them in the chat log is enough imo
20110915 22:25:52< anonymissimus> in the console log I mean, sry
20110915 22:26:07< anonymissimus> or stderr.txt on windows
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20110915 22:26:41< thonsew> I agree with silene the engine isn't even close to exception safe, but in this case the hop is short and I wrote the entry and exit code.
20110915 22:27:20< thonsew> Two different issues.
20110915 22:29:31< thonsew> I think we need more people to weigh in on where the errors should appear.  You and I are in agreement that the console log is the correct place to send these errors, but the content creators have different perspectives.
20110915 22:31:15< anonymissimus> also, stuff thrown only appears in the chat log because it is caught in teh lua interface
20110915 22:31:46< anonymissimus> otherwise, it would be an inscreen error message and return you to the titlescreen, as it was in 1.8
20110915 22:31:56< anonymissimus> pretty annoying
20110915 22:32:20< anonymissimus> well, I am a content creator myself
20110915 22:33:56< anonymissimus> there should also be some mean of muting error messages, just like using the log domains, --log-debug=something can turn on/off
20110915 22:34:20< anonymissimus> if you throw it's always visible
20110915 22:34:24< thonsew> anonymissimus, You see the catch is in the same file.  It wraps the parser.
20110915 22:34:48< anonymissimus> i can imagine what the chatlog may look like with the poor wml of most addons...
20110915 22:36:43< anonymissimus> hm well ok
20110915 22:36:59< CIA-7> espreon * r51201 /trunk/utils/gdb/ (3 files): Set svn:eol-style.
20110915 22:38:06< thonsew> That's wat I said to Espreon, about the rampant errors messages.  
20110915 22:40:59< Espreon> thonsew: Why's it going to the chatlog?
20110915 22:43:20< thonsew> I'm calling the screen in game log the chatlog.  I thought you wanted the messages to be more visible than the console.
20110915 22:43:44< Espreon> Yeah, I wanted it to be presented like some of [replace_map]'s error messages.
20110915 22:43:55< Espreon> thonsew: BTW, I also get some gmatch Lua errors in scenario two of UtBS.
20110915 22:44:13< Espreon> It has something to do with REHYDRATE_EFFECT.
20110915 22:44:44< Espreon> APPLY_HYDRATION_EFFECT, rather.
20110915 22:44:55< thonsew> And these are new errors, since my changes?
20110915 22:45:08< Espreon> Yeah.
20110915 22:45:38< Espreon> It's preventing my testers from easily testing the new desert elves in scenario two.
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20110915 22:45:45< anonymissimus> I'm also getting some errors btu I think we report them when the easy-to-reproduce ones are fixed
20110915 22:46:48< Espreon> anonymissimus: It can be easily reproduced by picking up the traveler's ring.
20110915 22:47:15< thonsew> Its the lua/C++ interface that difficult to debug/observe.  
20110915 22:48:54< thonsew> What is an easy to reproduce one that isn't intermittent.  The Silver Lands one doesn't always happen.
20110915 22:51:04< thonsew> Espreon, before you asked me to send the error messages to the display as well as the console, did you try to turn them on with the :log warning engine filter?
20110915 22:53:19< Espreon> I don't think so.
20110915 22:54:47< thonsew> anonymissimus, Espreon Is the standard method of logging acceptable for wml parsing errors caught by the engine at run-time, or do they need to go to the chatlog?  I'm for standard method.
20110915 22:55:28< Espreon> I wouldn't know.
20110915 22:57:48< thonsew> 1 strongly for standard log messages, 1 weak for standard log messages and 1 I wouldn't know, sounds like it will be standard log messages.  Now should it be an engine message, or is there a logger directed at run-time errors that wml editors care about?  
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20110915 22:58:23< anonymissimus> thonsew: what does "set print pretty on" exactly do ?
20110915 22:58:37< anonymissimus> it is bash-shell script ?
20110915 23:01:37< anonymissimus> "Now should it be an engine message, or is there a logger directed at run-time errors that wml editors care about? " I dont get what that means
20110915 23:02:23< thonsew> It is a gdb option.  When gdb prints complex data structure it either prints them without carriage returns (pretty off) or with carriage returns (pretty on).  It is actually orthogonal to the pretty printers.  The pretty printers parse complex data structures and print them in a human friendly fashion.
20110915 23:03:35< thonsew> Currently the console versions of these error messages are going to LOG_STREAM(warn, log_engine("engine")).  I don't think that is the right place.
20110915 23:06:26< thonsew> I think log_wml is probably better.
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20110915 23:19:26< anonymissimus> thonsew: no thats the right place probably
20110915 23:19:46< anonymissimus> log_wml is probably reserved for the wml_message tag
20110915 23:19:59< anonymissimus> ots for using log messages within wml code
20110915 23:20:32< anonymissimus> so such messages in wml can also be enabled/disabled with the engine --log parameters
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20110915 23:22:57< anonymissimus> yep, log_wml should be reserved for wml I think
20110915 23:24:10< thonsew> What log messages do users turn on when they are editing their campaigns?  These are wml parsing errors.
20110915 23:24:55< anonymissimus> the WRN_ and ERR_ messages are emitted in any case, no matetr what is turned on or not
20110915 23:25:42< thonsew> i.e the first character of the identifier is an invalid character, one of  . , [, or ]. in bandits[].name  at bandits[<-- -->].name
20110915 23:26:10< anonymissimus> yes, thats generally ERR_NG or WRN_NG
20110915 23:26:20< anonymissimus> and it doesnt need to be turned on
20110915 23:26:54< thonsew> OK WARN_NG it is.
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20110915 23:27:40< anonymissimus> and ERR_WML etc is for if someone wants to debug wml code and wants debug messages depending on whether he set such a log domain
20110915 23:28:07< anonymissimus> the tag wml_message which uses ERR_WML, that is
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20110915 23:29:10< thonsew> I think I see.  Is there an in game way to ask what for a list of all the log domains?
20110915 23:29:50< anonymissimus> for something in log-debug=something ? dont think so
20110915 23:30:38< thonsew> I was wondering if I missed it.
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 16 00:00:14 2011