--- Log opened Sun Sep 18 00:00:30 2011
20110918 00:01:09< anonymissimus> well, you are already at it and you have write access anyway, it's your job ;)
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20110918 00:12:49 * zookeeper thinks such scenario design is inherently unwise
20110918 00:13:05< fendrin> esr: I see it.
20110918 00:13:26< zookeeper> not referring to your proposed fix of course, but the whole premise of trying to save an AI from another AI.
20110918 00:13:49< esr> fendrin: You want to fix this or shall I?
20110918 00:15:15< fendrin> esr: What do you want to do? If it used to work but is failing now crab_ might want to fix the AI instead of changing the scenario.
20110918 00:15:54< esr> fendrin: Interesting point. He should be in on this discussion.  
20110918 00:17:26< anonymissimus> it probably fails just because some internal weighting changed a little to fix other things
20110918 00:17:44< zookeeper> well isn't the problem that the scenario breaks completely if there's a slight change to AI behaviour? you shouldn't base scenarios on the assumption that the AI will always make the same kind of tactical decisions.
20110918 00:17:51< anonymissimus> reading the comments in the thread, it was already a problem, even a year ago
20110918 00:18:35< esr> Then it probably needs to be fixed in the scenario.  By changing the aggro level on the King's defenders, perhaps?
20110918 00:20:50< zookeeper> why even allow them to engage in any combat before the player sees them (and before turn X, so that the player can't stall indefinitely)?
20110918 00:21:44< fendrin> zookeeper: There are at least 3 Scenarios in LoW where you need to save one AI from another. It will be hard to redesign all of them. I guess there are more in other campaigns.
20110918 00:22:11< anonymissimus> giving the northern enemies a [target] for the player would fix it probably
20110918 00:22:30< anonymissimus> so thy dont concentrate so much on the king
20110918 00:22:33< zookeeper> fendrin, yeah, and i bet those scenarios have the potential to be really annoying if the AI acts stupid (friendlies) or plays too well (enemies)
20110918 00:23:13< fendrin> beetlenaut: Is the King leaving his keep and being suicidal?
20110918 00:23:51< zookeeper> anyway, if a scenario depends on a friendly AI being able to defend against another AI for a given amount of turns, then you really need to take every precaution to ensure that it will always succeed
20110918 00:23:53< anonymissimus> designing such scenrios is a matter of introduing enough means so that the most stupid things dont happen
20110918 00:24:18< beetlenaut> fendrin: No, but his units are leaving him undefended.
20110918 00:25:36< zookeeper> the minimum precaution would be to make the king impossible to kill until the player has either seen him or enough turns have passed that the player could have gotten there had they paid attention to the objectives
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20110918 00:32:51< beetlenaut> I can't fix it now. There is an engine bug: If you have multiple [ai] tags, it seems they are all ignored, so I can't do anything turn-based with the AI. I'll put it on gna. (Actually, the scenario would be pretty broken without this bug.)
20110918 00:33:09< beetlenaut> anonymissimus:^
20110918 00:36:56< fendrin> esr: We can give the king a Leibstandarte.
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20110918 00:37:49< esr> fendrin: What's a Leibstandarte?
20110918 00:38:07< fendrin> Personal Bodyguard Regiment
20110918 00:38:32< esr> Ah.  Yes, medieval kings often had these.
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20110918 00:39:39< fendrin> 3 or 4 units should be enough. We spawn them at the prestart event and adjust the AI to not leave the keep or something similar.
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20110918 00:44:38< beetlenaut> He actually *has* two guard units that show up when the enemy gets close, but they jump into the grass and die before the turn is over.
20110918 00:46:04< beetlenaut> I could change it so they spawn in the keep and stay there. I'll try that.
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20110918 00:47:31< fendrin> beetlenaut: Thanks for your efforts.
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20110918 01:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 190 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110918 01:05:23< CIA-7> shadowmaster * r51222 /trunk/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/Epilogue.cfg: 
20110918 01:05:24< CIA-7> SoF Epilogue: vertically shift various unit spawn/move locations by -5
20110918 01:05:24< CIA-7> Fixes a couple of guards swimming around the Weldyn tower, among other
20110918 01:05:24< CIA-7> things.
20110918 01:05:24< CIA-7> [http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=35036]
20110918 01:05:37< CIA-7> shadowmaster * r51223 /trunk/data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/Epilogue.cfg: SoF Epilogue: remove an ancient terrain action that's not needed anymore
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20110918 02:26:04< Espreon> isaac: Hello there.
20110918 02:35:07< Espreon> wesbot: topic
20110918 02:35:09-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 194 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110918 02:35:14< Espreon> .... Yup.
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20110918 02:51:09< CIA-7> espreon * r51224 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/04_Descending_into_Darkness.cfg: Fixed a time_area's range in UtBS scenario four.
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20110918 07:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 195 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110918 07:52:20< CIA-7> espreon * r51225 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth/ang@latin.po wesnoth-help/ang@latin.po): Updated the Old English translation.
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20110918 08:33:18< Espreon> Sytyi: 'Ello.
20110918 08:33:40< Sytyi> Espreon: Hello
20110918 08:42:57< CIA-7> beetlenaut * r51226 /trunk/data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/15_Save_the_King.cfg: Rebalanced on all difficulty levels. HARD was too hard, and EASY was too easy according to comments on the forum.
20110918 08:45:05< beetlenaut> I used [avoid] with [not][radius] to keep all the king's units within 5 hexes of him. That worked surprisingly well. You also have to kill all the leaders now, even on EASY.
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20110918 09:23:34< Espreon> boucman: Shall I file a bug report about the lack of click flash for units with standing animations?
20110918 09:23:49< boucman> yes, please
20110918 09:24:17< Espreon> All right.
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20110918 09:32:36< Espreon> boucman: It hath been done.
20110918 09:32:50< boucman> yes, Ive marked the mail in my inbox, thx
20110918 09:32:57< Espreon> No prob.
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20110918 09:44:08< Ivanovic> moin
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20110918 10:29:24< vultraz> I have an idea for a terrain: outside stone wall
20110918 10:29:26< vultraz> our current stone wall are for house walls
20110918 10:29:28< vultraz> I was thinking something like a low,mossy stone wall
20110918 10:34:05< Espreon> OK, great.
20110918 10:34:09< Espreon> Now let's see some art!
20110918 10:34:47< Espreon> boucman: Do we really need the Create Unit dialog to trigger recruit animations?
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20110918 10:40:45< Ivanovic> Espreon: this is an easy way for *testing* recruit animations
20110918 10:40:54< Ivanovic> and check how they look and feel ingame
20110918 10:41:08< Ivanovic> not sure if this was a request from the unit art devs
20110918 10:41:17< Espreon> Meh, I guess so.
20110918 10:41:30< Espreon> Eh, fine. Let it be.
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20110918 14:18:06< zookeeper> vultraz, and it would be an embellishment only, i presume..? would look kinda odd if a little stone wall like that was impassable.
20110918 14:18:35< vultraz> yeah
20110918 14:20:27< vultraz> an impassable low stone wall would be stupid
20110918 14:20:34< vultraz> XD
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20110918 21:08:20< Alarantalara> Espreon asked if I could do something about the jagged bits in the cave walls. Unfortunately, as this image shows, a solution is basically impossible without redrawing the images: http://imagebin.org/172979
20110918 21:08:56< Alarantalara> As you can see, the wall heights are different for the concave and convex pieces, and so cannot line up
20110918 21:10:35< Alarantalara> A careful examination shows that the problem was also present in 1.8, but that the darker colour scheme made it less obvious
20110918 21:13:36< Alarantalara> So, I thought I'd ask if anyone had a problem with me blacking out the top part of the concave images so that the wall heights appear to be the same
20110918 21:14:01< Alarantalara> It wouldn't fix all the boxiness issues, but it would get rid of the two worst offenders
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20110918 22:29:55< anonymissimus> wesbot: seen thonsew
20110918 22:29:56< wesbot> anonymissimus: The person with the nick thonsew last spoke 2d ago.  1d 22h ago person left: "Leaving"
20110918 22:30:35< anonymissimus> alarantalara: no idea, but I trust you anyway ;)
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20110918 22:46:22< shadowmaster> http://tbaggery.com/2008/04/19/a-note-about-git-commit-messages.html
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20110918 23:24:40< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51227 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Draw bridges under forest. Looks bad, but still better than not drawing tiles. Fixes bug #18595
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--- Log closed Mon Sep 19 00:00:22 2011