--- Log opened Wed Sep 21 00:00:01 2011
--- Day changed Wed Sep 21 2011
20110921 00:00:01< Sapient> thonsew: it is common practice in WML to check/append/etc uninitialized variables
20110921 00:00:57< shadowmaster> warnings on uninitialized variables appeared long before that, though
20110921 00:01:05< Sapient> uninitialized variables test numerically equal to 0, boolean equal to false, string equal to "" (or $empty if you like)
20110921 00:01:06< thonsew> anonymissimus, how so It should not change any external behavior?
20110921 00:02:43< anonymissimus> thonsew: uh of course
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20110921 00:02:57< anonymissimus> you have to retain 100% compatibility with any existing addon
20110921 00:03:10< thonsew> Sapient, the original code has a variable force, which determines if the wml variable is automatically created or an warning is thrown.  All unitialized variables were supposed to be issuing warnings in the code.  I tried to preserve the initial intent.  I can easily change the behavior to treat unitialized varaibles as returning false in boolean tests.
20110921 00:03:11< anonymissimus> exceptions are very rare
20110921 00:03:46< Sapient> thonsew: I was the one who added those warnings in the first place
20110921 00:03:56< Sapient> they were meant to be silent warnings
20110921 00:04:05< Sapient> only visible in the console output
20110921 00:04:13< Sapient> not in-game
20110921 00:04:34< thonsew> Espreon, suggested they be promoted to in game.
20110921 00:04:35< Sapient> the ERR_NG was for things that should be shown in-game
20110921 00:05:39< thonsew> Why not have a second boolean so that var_info know when a variable is being checked in a test?
20110921 00:05:41< Sapient> the reason I elected not to show them in-game was that, although suspicious, they would not necessarily prevent correct behavior and may even be intended behavior
20110921 00:05:43< Gambit> WML's ease of use is key to its awesomeness.
20110921 00:06:25< Sapient> the reason I used warning level instead of info level, is so that content authors wouldn't have to bother with command line switches
20110921 00:06:53< Sapient> but really, the severity was info
20110921 00:07:54< Sapient> with respect to Espreon, I have to disagree
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20110921 00:08:31< Sapient> I think he should not presume to speak for the major WML stakeholders
20110921 00:09:47< thonsew> I did not mean to imply that he spoke for everyone, but he was the one spoke out.
20110921 00:11:04< Sapient> just to restate for the record...
20110921 00:11:48< Sapient> in variable.cpp, WRN_NG was intended for silent output to the console without commandline switches requires, but not for in-game display
20110921 00:12:10< Sapient> while ERR_NG was for in-game display
20110921 00:12:29< Sapient> that was the original intent
20110921 00:12:43< Sapient> WML is (or was) supposed to be a forgiving language
20110921 00:13:58< Sapient> I hate to use a PHP comparison, but there are definite similarities
20110921 00:14:24< Sapient> in PHP it is possible to enable a "strict mode"
20110921 00:14:54< Sapient> maybe these changes are desirable to a certain subset of people, and they should be optionally enablable
20110921 00:15:07< Sapient> if enablable is even a word
20110921 00:15:19< anonymissimus> enabled
20110921 00:15:22< Gambit> yum
20110921 00:15:23< Sapient> thanks
20110921 00:16:27< Sapient> I am going to step out on a limb here and say that most of our content authors would elect not to use a strict mode if such a thing were optional
20110921 00:16:55< Sapient> although we programmers might be horrified by such a thing
20110921 00:19:01< Gambit> An opt-in strict mode sounds awesome to me.
20110921 00:20:14< Sapient> I was a content author before I was a developer
20110921 00:20:22< Sapient> anyways, cya later
20110921 00:20:37< thonsew> Goodbye
20110921 00:20:38< Sapient> and have fun
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20110921 00:25:35< loonycyborg> thonsew: btw did you do profiling after your changes? What is the bottleneck after them?
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20110921 00:28:16< thonsew> I didn't profile after these changes, because I considered them all bug fixes.  Previously, the introduction of t_token improved speed of a turn of the 5 orc warlords on NR showdown by I think it was 20%, and there where also small 5-10% memory savings (although mostly from the changes to unit_frame)
20110921 00:29:09< thonsew> I've never profiled a lua intensive scenario, so I am concerned about its impact.
20110921 00:31:41< thonsew> anonymissimus, I have to go, but we should talk more about profiling and UMC dependencies on wesnoth internal structures.  Bye
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20110921 00:41:35< anonymissimus> thonsew: uh, no
20110921 00:41:51< anonymissimus> ""table with unnamed indices holding t_tokens expected"" ??
20110921 00:41:55< anonymissimus> are you crazy
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20110921 00:44:10< anonymissimus> it is nonsense to bother UMC authors with tokens, really
20110921 00:44:56< anonymissimus> do you have a right motivation for those chanegs at least ? "profiled some lua scenario" ?
20110921 00:45:25< anonymissimus> as gar as I get it you want string comparisons in external lua code modify the same way you did in C++
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20110921 01:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 199 bugs, 330 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110921 01:06:04< anonymissimus> line 438 in wml-tags.lua does nothing
20110921 01:06:33< anonymissimus> some sloppy leftover code
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20110921 01:08:52< anonymissimus> in line 422 for instance you change code formatting for absolutely no reason 
20110921 01:10:50< anonymissimus> well, I'm sorry but I would probably agree with sapiant on revertign the whole thing
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20110921 02:40:57< Espreon> ... Meh, I guess it's different for [replace_map] then. Whatever then.
20110921 02:41:43< Espreon> I really don't care.
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20110921 03:10:36< Alarantalara> Espreon: are you satisfied with the appearance of bridges now re: https://gna.org/bugs/?18595
20110921 03:11:14< Espreon> Yeah.
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20110921 05:27:11< leonid> Hello. I read git-svn page on wesnoth wiki and there is written: "First you need the git tarball. You can ask for the url at our IRC channel (#wesnoth-dev at Freenode). We don't publish the url..."... Anybody can help me with that?
20110921 05:28:58< shadowmaster> leonid: http://files.wesnoth.org/hidden/git/
20110921 05:29:11< Espreon> ...
20110921 05:29:21< Espreon> Meh, it's in the logs anyway, I guess.
20110921 05:29:26< Espreon> Blargh.
20110921 05:29:36< shadowmaster> multiple times in the past, indeed
20110921 05:30:46< shadowmaster> theoretically Google honors the robots.txt in the log domains, so that shouldn't be a problem, since everyone uses Google!
20110921 05:31:09< leonid> thank you
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20110921 05:33:17< Espreon> But I heard that Microsoft's crap doesn't.
20110921 05:33:25< Espreon> But noöne uses it, so yeah.
20110921 05:33:27< leonid> I tried search, but didn't find anything useful. sorry for the noise...
20110921 05:33:49< shadowmaster> no, that's a good sign :)
20110921 05:34:31< Espreon> Indeed.
20110921 05:35:08< leonid> ok :)
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20110921 08:50:03< timotei> shadowm_laptop: : are we really just 7 people on this channel?:-S
20110921 08:53:54< shadowm_laptop> depends on the server you are connected to
20110921 08:54:00< shadowm_laptop> 03:52:23 <shadowmaster> freenode was shattered to pieces around 2 hours ago
20110921 08:54:01< shadowm_laptop> 03:52:36 <shadowmaster> the network is currently split into three portions at *least*
20110921 09:17:11< timotei> wow
20110921 09:17:12< timotei> :))
20110921 09:17:21< timotei> so that's how a split looks in reality
20110921 09:17:22< timotei> cool!
20110921 09:40:23< timotei> so... shadowm_laptop according to: https://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/116181996203556864
20110921 09:40:33< timotei> I should *really* start that minecraft-like clone xD
20110921 09:47:34< shadowm_laptop> good luck succeeding in that without playing the game
20110921 09:47:44< timotei> shadowm_laptop: I play(ed) the game :P
20110921 09:47:55< timotei> But yeah, It shouldn't be a 1:1 clone
20110921 09:48:00< shadowm_laptop> not enough to master it. you can't grasp it in its entirety that way.
20110921 09:48:35< shadowm_laptop> what the article fails to consider is that there have probably been game developers who have taken a look at Minecraft for inspiration and just could never go back to work
20110921 09:48:44< timotei> =))
20110921 09:48:47< timotei> yeah. Good point xD
20110921 09:49:08< shadowm_laptop> but indeed, to make a good clone you need to study the source material very carefully
20110921 09:49:30< shadowm_laptop> otherwise your product will just become the gaming community's butt monkey
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20110921 09:52:11< timotei> hehe, people get back
20110921 09:52:20< timotei> so we were on the good side from start, right?
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20110921 09:53:09< shadowmaster> you were not
20110921 09:53:10< shadowmaster> I was, though
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20110921 09:53:32< Guest81844> why not?
20110921 09:53:36< Guest81844> I see other people JOIN
20110921 09:53:49< shadowmaster> you were on one of the portions without a path to the services hub
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20110921 09:53:59< Guest81844> hmm
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20110921 09:54:18< timotei21> * timotei :Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable
20110921 09:54:20< timotei21> ...
20110921 09:54:30< shadowmaster> /msg nickserv release timotei
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20110921 09:55:05< timotei> thanks shadowmaster ;)
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20110921 13:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 202 bugs, 330 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110921 14:15:50< vultraz> is it just me, or are the bugs and feature request numbers going up, but the patch number isn't?
20110921 14:21:42< vultraz> and has zaroth been on lately?
20110921 14:22:09< shadowmaster> he disappeared circa June/July
20110921 14:23:53< vultraz> why? where did he go?
20110921 14:24:15< shadowmaster> personal reasons. I don't handle more information than that.
20110921 14:24:38< vultraz> :S
20110921 14:25:05< vultraz> so...what happened to his GSoC mp improvements project 
20110921 14:25:29< shadowmaster> aborted, I believe
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20110921 14:26:28< vultraz> :(
20110921 14:27:01< vultraz> too bad
20110921 14:27:02< shadowmaster> it's really unfortunate; he seemed to have the exact mindset I find people around here need
20110921 14:27:49-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110921 14:28:23< vultraz> the project seemed to have a lot of nice features 
20110921 14:30:20< vultraz> if he abandoned it, will any of them ever got completed?
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20110921 15:07:08< Mkaysi> wesbot: you lag
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20110921 15:24:35< wesbot> Mkaysi: orly
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20110921 15:41:47< Mkaysi> Should I start advertising that bug 18693 or something? We could think it as feature request after the latest comment.
20110921 15:47:58 * anonymissimus feels his interest in the project decreasing...
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20110921 16:06:37< shadowmaster> yeah, there's some stuff in UtBS that doesn't make sense at all now
20110921 16:06:53< Kolbur> hello
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20110921 16:07:07< shadowmaster> "Since then the path of the second sun has shifted in the sky, creating the long dark that you are so familiar with every other night."
20110921 16:07:09< Kolbur> who can guess why i'm here? :D
20110921 16:07:28< shadowmaster> Espreon: ^
20110921 16:07:35< vultraz> to develop wesnoth?
20110921 16:07:43< shadowmaster> I missed another circumflex
20110921 16:07:58< zookeeper> shadowmaster, gravity? :P
20110921 16:08:13< shadowmaster> zookeeper: there's no long darkness in-game anymore in the first place
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20110921 16:09:02< Kolbur> vultraz: not really, i usually only join here to ask if the main server malfunction is known already ;)
20110921 16:09:10< shadowmaster> there's just this long twilight period (2 turns) and the regular night period (2 turns) after the second day
20110921 16:09:29< shadowmaster> not sure whether "evil spreads across the lands" during twilight now or what
20110921 16:09:31< vultraz> Kolbur: oh ok
20110921 16:09:40< shadowmaster> Kolbur: I notified the people in charge a day ago
20110921 16:09:42< zookeeper> shadowmaster, oh... right.
20110921 16:10:09< zookeeper> so why would anyone go and remove the long dark?
20110921 16:10:13< Kolbur> thx shadowmaster
20110921 16:10:34< vultraz> yeah y?
20110921 16:10:34< shadowmaster> apparently because fendrin's new scheme made more sense astronomically-speaking or something
20110921 16:10:34< Kolbur> this happens really often lately
20110921 16:10:52< vultraz> I wonder why
20110921 16:11:06< shadowmaster> I'm hesitating whether to keep working on my UMC with the new schedule or revert it and pretend this didn't happen until the userbase calls me out on it
20110921 16:11:24< Kolbur> i remember that campaign, it was one of the best, wasn't it 4 turns of night?
20110921 16:11:38< shadowmaster> (the new scheme apparently was also the only way to make liminal useful)
20110921 16:13:53< zookeeper> urgh
20110921 16:14:43< elias> is there a reason why wesnoth.org links to the iphone appstore but not the android appstore?
20110921 16:14:56< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: ^
20110921 16:15:29< Mkaysi> Is there Wesnoth for android? :O
20110921 16:15:31< elias> heh, so guess the answer is there just was no time yet to update :)
20110921 16:16:10< zookeeper> 10 turns of day/twilight vs 2 turns of night? ehhhh.
20110921 16:16:11< anonymissimus> what would be the best manner to start a discussion about thonsew's changes ? took a closer look at r51240 and I notice quite some problems (apart from the whole idea of adding token support outside the C++ engine being wrong imho)
20110921 16:16:31< zookeeper> the old one has 10 day/twilight vs 5 night
20110921 16:17:30< Kolbur> zookeeper: that sounds a lot easier now...
20110921 16:17:46< Mkaysi> Not compatible with my android :(
20110921 16:17:53< zookeeper> and more boring. and what are those ghosts gonna do in the second scenario now?
20110921 16:18:20< shadowmaster> the catch is that the UtBS night schedules have a -50% lawful bonus (as opposed to -25%, which is the standard including underground, or -30% which is used by "deep underground")
20110921 16:18:22< Kolbur> yes, the long night was always a nice challenge
20110921 16:19:41< anonymissimus> and I feel that I am loosing interest in the project due to it being no longer fun because of thonsew-bugs preventing me from what I originally wanted to do
20110921 16:20:38< shadowmaster> I really wonder how the -50% bonus works under moonlight, assuming Irdya has at least one moon left by the time UtBS takes place
20110921 16:20:38< Ivanovic> elias: yeah, me having *ZERO* time atm to do anything
20110921 16:20:39< anonymissimus> for instance, the call wesnoth.get_units(nil) does now no longer work, it throws and error, due to one of the changes he made for no reason at all, this can of course break any existing lua
20110921 16:20:59< Ivanovic> so if someone else knows a way to do this stuff nicely and has the time, feel free to do it! (looking at shadowmaster)
20110921 16:21:19< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: depends on whether I need to write some boring announcement in the frontpage or not
20110921 16:21:45< shadowmaster> also, the Overview box is too large already, so something should be dropped in exchange; either timotei's IDE or the appstore link :)
20110921 16:21:54< shadowmaster> (not 100% serious)
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20110921 16:23:31< Ivanovic> or having two things like iphone and android in one line
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20110921 16:23:52< Ivanovic> but like i said, got zero time atm since i am finishing my thesis and swamped in issues coming up ~5min before deadline
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20110921 16:24:53< zookeeper> maybe we should decide who gets to make the call on the UtBS changes everyone seems to like to do. there's at least fendrin, espreon and me who presumably all disagree about what, if anything, should be done to it.
20110921 16:25:27< elias> i say whoever is willing to spend the most time :)
20110921 16:25:41< zookeeper> that favors the ones who want to make big changes
20110921 16:26:08< shadowmaster> eek
20110921 16:26:12< elias> not necessarily
20110921 16:26:27< shadowmaster> did something in the event.unit action syntax change lately?
20110921 16:27:22< elias> someone could want to make big changes but then take a year to have it rebalanced and all because they don't have enough time to spend... but yeah, can't know beforehand so guess it's a bad criterium after all
20110921 16:27:24< shadowmaster> also, hm, how do I clear a side's recruit list anymore? I get complaints from Wesnoth on an explicitly empty set_recruit.recruit attribute and the list isn't really cleared
20110921 16:27:57< shadowmaster> "Invalid WML found: [set_recruit] missing required recruit= attribute" (even though it is there, just empty)
20110921 16:27:58< zookeeper> elias, well, if one person thinks that nothing much needs to be done and the campaign is fine as it is sans a couple of improvements here and there, and someone else wants to change tons of stuff, then of course the latter needs to spend a lot more time on it.
20110921 16:28:08< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: ^^ you sound like the person who can help me
20110921 16:28:39< Gambit> So assuming everyone does all the work they want it favors people who want big changes.
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20110921 16:30:53< elias> zookeeper: true. i was mostly thinking it would be good for the campaign to get one "strong" maintainer again instead of having it border on being unmaintained/able (which somewhat is my impression)
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20110921 16:31:40< zookeeper> elias, yes, of course. that is, someone to make the call on what's to be done and what isn't
20110921 16:34:50< shadowmaster> hm, and Wesnoth appears to be privileging non-transparent portraits for some reason
20110921 16:35:36< shadowmaster> I guess I may as well compile 1.9.9 and hope all this crap disappears
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20110921 16:43:53< shadowmaster> cjhopman: is this going to be the permanent repository for Android Wesnoth so I can link to it from the front page? https://github.com/cjhopman/Battle-for-Wesnoth-on-Android
20110921 16:44:19< elias> oh, the source code is available without email now?
20110921 16:44:55< shadowmaster> he linked to that repo before the release. I don' tknow what's up with that anymore since it seems to have been left untouched since then
20110921 16:45:16< elias> shadowmaster: maybe could also say (compatible with version 1.6/1.8) where the other ports have the download size
20110921 16:45:42< shadowmaster> isn't the android port 1.8-based?
20110921 16:45:57< elias> yes
20110921 16:46:07< elias> but iphone is 1.6 afaik
20110921 16:46:28< shadowmaster> oh yeah, I forgot to mention I don't feel compelled to keep the iOS port links there
20110921 16:47:11< shadowmaster> apparently it is buggy and doesn't interact well with newer versions of iOS
20110921 16:48:07< elias> yes, i guess removing it would work
20110921 16:48:22< elias> wonder if it still has sales, and if google analytics can tell how many of those are due to clicks on that link
20110921 16:49:08< elias> not that it should matter much in the decision to remove the link
20110921 16:49:45 * shadowmaster tries an alternative
20110921 16:51:28< shadowmaster> "approximately 200 MB" doesn't sound very professional, btw
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20110921 16:57:07< shadowmaster> whoops, that's not working as well as I expected thanks to that pesky portrait
20110921 16:59:57< elias> i wonder if CSS has a way to flow text around the portrait
20110921 17:00:18< shadowmaster> not given the mechanism we use for the portrait (a backgrond image), no
20110921 17:00:33< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: yeah, the iphone port link can probably be removed since it is basically dead
20110921 17:01:02< Ivanovic> you could use "~200 MB" instead of "approvimately"
20110921 17:01:03< Ivanovic> ;)
20110921 17:01:31< Ivanovic> anyway, back to "real life" stuff again
20110921 17:01:42< shadowmaster> glhf
20110921 17:02:41< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: as for the set_recruit issue; 1) it is already reported 2) its code didn't change 3) I guess you just hit a thonsew-bug
20110921 17:02:48< Ivanovic> the "fun" part is long done, what is left is plain frustrating
20110921 17:03:02< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: and what about my unit spawns not working?
20110921 17:03:16< shadowmaster> oh, 1.9.9 is cooked
20110921 17:03:38< shadowmaster> 1.9.9 works fine
20110921 17:03:58< shadowmaster> even the portraits work fine on 1.9.9 :(
20110921 17:04:03< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: maybe it is in the same event ? than it is probably the result of the prvious error
20110921 17:04:10< anonymissimus> then
20110921 17:04:21< anonymissimus> or just another thonsew-bug
20110921 17:04:28< shadowmaster> pretty sure .unit shouldn't have anything to do with a previous .set_recruit action
20110921 17:04:33< elias> you mean, it's not fun submitting a few forms and scheduling a few professors to attend your presentation?
20110921 17:04:36< shadowmaster> in theory :(
20110921 17:04:58< elias> i think i found that part the most fun since i was so relieved to finally have the thesis all written down :)
20110921 17:05:03< shadowmaster> unless .unit got rewritten in lua too
20110921 17:05:37< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: the thing is this: it hasn't anything to do in the first place, but, if it appears in the same wml event (call stack), all subsequent wml action tags will be skipped, due to the lua error being thrown
20110921 17:07:03< shadowmaster> including actions implemented natively?
20110921 17:09:22< shadowmaster> blah http://www.wesnoth.org/index-testing-android-stuff.html
20110921 17:09:51< anonymissimus> "implemented natively" mean what ? implemented in C++ ? yes
20110921 17:10:18< shadowmaster> ok, that's funky
20110921 17:10:48< anonymissimus> here's the bug btw http://gna.org/bugs/?18667
20110921 17:12:37< anonymissimus> it is a side effect of the lua interface changes silene made for 1.9 I guess; all problems caused by it should be easy to fix
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20110921 17:30:56< anonymissimus> thonsew: do you have any evidence for the sense of exposing tokens as a userdata to lua code ?
20110921 17:31:01< anonymissimus> "The way Lua implements strings differs in two important ways from what is
20110921 17:31:03< anonymissimus> done in most other scripting languages. First, all strings in Lua are internalized;
20110921 17:31:05< anonymissimus> this means that Lua keeps a single copy of any string. Whenever a new string
20110921 17:31:06< anonymissimus> appears, Lua checks whether it already has a copy of that string and, if so,
20110921 17:31:08< anonymissimus> reuses that copy. Internalization makes operations like string comparison and
20110921 17:31:09< anonymissimus> table indexing very fast, but it slows down string creation."
20110921 17:31:15< anonymissimus> this is from http://www.lua.org/gems/sample.pdf
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20110921 17:46:17< timotei> < anonymissimus> what would be the best manner to start a discussion about thonsew's changes ?
20110921 17:46:19< timotei> mailing list?
20110921 17:46:28< timotei> I guess it's the best for all people to respond to that :)
20110921 17:46:39< timotei> Or forums, though maybe the ML is still better :-/
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20110921 18:36:20< Espreon> shadowmaster: No, you mean caret.
20110921 18:36:29< Espreon> A circumflex is a diacritic.
20110921 18:37:04< shadowmaster> translate that to English por favor
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20110921 18:39:18< Espreon> shadowmaster: A caret isn't a thingy that goes on a letter, but a circulflex is, thus you should have said "caret".
20110921 18:39:23< Espreon> *circumflex
20110921 18:39:49< Espreon> This is not a circumflex: ^
20110921 18:39:50< shadowmaster> Espreon: okay, I couldn't care less. Let's pretend the circumflex was sitting on any of the many blank Unicode characters
20110921 18:39:57< Espreon> This is e-circulflex: ê
20110921 18:40:00< Espreon> *circumflex
20110921 18:41:02< shadowmaster> > <U005E>     /x5e         CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
20110921 18:41:50< Espreon> Fair enough.
20110921 18:42:08< Espreon> Let's also call Ʒ yogh.
20110921 18:42:25< shadowmaster> I don't care about that.
20110921 18:42:36< Espreon> Very well.
20110921 18:43:03< shadowmaster> in case you need my reference: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0000.pdf
20110921 18:43:31< shadowmaster> U+005E is at the bottom left corner of page 5
20110921 18:43:39< shadowmaster> :)
20110921 18:43:58< Espreon> Smile all you want, but I shall turn it upside down.
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20110921 18:45:04< shadowmaster> I think I'll enjoy reading your letter to the Unicode Technical Committee
20110921 18:45:15< Espreon> I have better things to do.
20110921 18:45:27< shadowmaster> okay, then I'll keep smiling :)
20110921 18:45:53< Espreon> OK, so you do want me to keep the new, crappy schedule then?
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20110921 18:46:53< shadowmaster> I'm not the only person you have to please and you know it
20110921 18:47:06< Espreon> Yeah...
20110921 18:47:20< shadowmaster> as far as I'm concerned I can do whatever I want in AtS and IftU and nobody can make me do otherwise
20110921 18:47:26< shadowmaster> :)
20110921 18:48:06< Espreon> Whatever.
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20110921 19:00:22< anonymissimus> Espreon: I dont want you to keep the new crappy schedule :)
20110921 19:01:34< Espreon> Nor do I!
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20110921 19:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 202 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110921 19:24:08< shadowmaster> uhm, it looks like Wesnoth doesn't avoid rewinding the currently playing music track anymore when switching from a storyscreen to the gamemap proper
20110921 19:24:31< Espreon> Yup, no more groundbreaking shit.
20110921 19:24:40< Espreon> That's what we should tell him.
20110921 19:24:57< shadowmaster> ?
20110921 19:25:11< Espreon> Thonsew.
20110921 19:25:26< Espreon> No more of these massive changes.
20110921 19:27:13< shadowmaster> okay... I hope you have a good reason to assume the behavior I just pointed out has anything to do with him
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20110921 19:57:10< shadowmaster> Wesnoth now flushes the framebuffer after every event.item action? D:
20110921 19:57:19< shadowmaster> I mean, redraw the screen
20110921 19:57:21< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: ^
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20110921 19:58:06< shadowmaster> okay, why do I bother you if I know the answer anyway. I'll tear its lua apart for my private use I guess.
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20110921 20:03:29< shadowmaster> it looks filthy, though
20110921 20:04:20< shadowmaster> this use of tables is particularly jarring: local items = scenario_items[x * 10000 + y]
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20110921 20:13:34< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: it doesnt sound as if it's caused by items.lua
20110921 20:13:50< anonymissimus> and that line makes sense
20110921 20:14:23< anonymissimus> actually, I consider all code by silene to be holy xD
20110921 20:14:51< anonymissimus> no really, he was the best coder and I'd wish he'd come back
20110921 20:16:57< shadowmaster> it is caused by items.lua
20110921 20:17:20< shadowmaster> I thought line 72 was obvious enough.
20110921 20:17:22< anonymissimus> silene put that wml_actions.redraw {} line there because the previous C++ code did the same I guess
20110921 20:17:53< shadowmaster> he was the best coder and the worst communicator
20110921 20:18:29< anonymissimus> maybe yes, but consider for instance thonsew's communication
20110921 20:18:33< shadowmaster> I think people around here tend to place too much emphasis on technical skills and little to no value on communication skills
20110921 20:18:51< shadowmaster> poor communication kills
20110921 20:19:03< shadowmaster> Gambit and I know that, right?
20110921 20:19:25< anonymissimus> he has posted nothing in the forum and hardly anything on the mailing list about explaning his groundbreaking revisions
20110921 20:19:57< shadowmaster> the forums are (against my desires) irrelevant for this kind of matters
20110921 20:19:57< anonymissimus> and he is very little in irc explaining them despite coding a lot
20110921 20:20:36< anonymissimus> silene posted a lot in the forums
20110921 20:21:22< shadowmaster> communicating with other developers is equally important
20110921 20:21:31< anonymissimus> the forums are not irrelevant, if thonsew would read the post describing the converns of the wml and lua coders he could get a better feeling for the project
20110921 20:21:33< shadowmaster> and considering that most involved developers don't currently read the forums!
20110921 20:21:52< anonymissimus> which is very bad
20110921 20:22:54< anonymissimus> Espreon: actually, it's nto about "no more"; I desire to revert the whole token stuff
20110921 20:23:02< Espreon> Sigh...
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20110921 20:23:15< Espreon> ... No...
20110921 20:23:16< anonymissimus> I see several proofs that thonsew is coding very sloppily
20110921 20:23:29< Espreon> Well, don't get me involved.
20110921 20:24:11< anonymissimus> or a branch, as suggested by gabba
20110921 20:25:00< anonymissimus> I don't trust him he's really understanding what he does
20110921 20:25:03< Espreon> Yes, a branch.
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20110921 20:26:10< shadowmaster> ooooo, halos have a greater zorder than shroud? how unfortunate
20110921 20:28:24< shadowmaster> I guess I'm not accomplishing anything here: http://shadowm.ai0867.net/broken_fake_fog.png
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20110921 21:19:39< Espreon> Elvish_Hunter: Ciao.
20110921 21:19:39< CIA-7> espreon * r51246 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (24 files in 2 dirs): UtBS is not a playground; it is my kingdom.
20110921 21:23:24< vultraz> niiice
20110921 21:33:19< CIA-7> espreon * r51247 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg: WATCH1 -> LONGDARK4.
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20110921 21:46:00< anonymissimus> I notice problems all over, for instance, with the MinGw binary I get a string when doing cfg.something in a wml tag, in MSVC it is userdata (like it should be)
20110921 21:46:05< Elvish_Hunter> About the recent trunk breakage: as you may know, I'm a WML/Lua coder (no useful C++ knowledge, at least for now).
20110921 21:46:17< Elvish_Hunter> I have some things that I need to test for core, but of course I cannot test them in this situation.
20110921 21:46:32< Elvish_Hunter> So, I agree with anonymissimus and Sapient that recent changes should be reverted.
20110921 21:46:41< Espreon> anonymissimus: Have I made your day?
20110921 21:47:18< timotei> What about... creating first a branch, and only then reverting those?
20110921 21:47:36< timotei> But of course, people won't test that branch I guess :(
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20110921 21:49:10< anonymissimus> Espreon: well, the UtbS schedule can't be changed without breaking a lot of UMC
20110921 21:49:48< anonymissimus> shadowmaster's cmpaigns, TSoG and there are more...
20110921 21:50:46< Espreon> anonymissimus: Note that I would gladly fix things in shadowmaster's campaigns.
20110921 21:50:53< Espreon> ... at least.
20110921 21:51:06< Elvish_Hunter> I'm ready to change the time schedule in TSoG, but I'm of the opinion that the Liminal alignment needs a +25% bonus on twilight.
20110921 21:51:17< Elvish_Hunter> Otherwise, it is always worse that all the other alignments, and no custom units in UMC will use it.
20110921 21:51:24< Espreon> Elvish_Hunter: You don't need to change anything.
20110921 21:51:31< Espreon> We're back to the old schedule.
20110921 21:53:12< anonymissimus> Espreon: a question about bug #18705
20110921 21:53:23< Espreon> Go ahead.
20110921 21:53:41< anonymissimus> did the inspect dialog work so that named keys were ordered alphabtically ?
20110921 21:53:49< anonymissimus> I never noticed it...
20110921 21:53:52< Espreon> Yes.
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20110921 21:54:40< shadowmaster> naturally, since the underlying container used to be ordered before thonsew's changes
20110921 21:56:12< Espreon> Oh wow.
20110921 21:56:18< Espreon> I recruited some units... and they had slow.
20110921 21:56:25< Espreon> Well, they were slowed.
20110921 21:58:32< Espreon> Hmmm, why is it only affecting my elemental units?
20110921 21:58:46< Espreon> There is nothing in my campaign that slows things on recruit.
20110921 21:58:55< Espreon> Well... no.
20110921 21:59:02< Espreon> It's affecting random things.
20110921 21:59:11< Espreon> Even WML-spawned mainline units.
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20110921 22:00:03< Elvish_Hunter_> Espreon: not that I can help, but you got only slowed units, or even poisoned ones?
20110921 22:01:20< Espreon> They're only getting slowed.
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20110921 23:44:57< CIA-7> thonsew * r51248 /trunk/utils/gdb/ (wesnoth_gdb.py wesnoth_pretty_printers.py): Removed redundant line in wesnoth_gdb set_recursion_level
20110921 23:45:03< CIA-7> thonsew * r51249 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: Removed duplicate transparency in png file name in custom-dialog.
20110921 23:45:11< CIA-7> thonsew * r51250 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): 
20110921 23:45:11< CIA-7> Fixed some of the t_token references that were leaking out into WML land.
20110921 23:45:11< CIA-7> This fixes all of the lua errors in wesnoth -t. This does not fix all of the errors in Anonymissimus' multiplayer add-on, which are due to references leaking through the arbitrary code hole in wml-tags.lua:250
20110921 23:49:39-!- Talad|Away is now known as Talad
20110921 23:52:44< Gambit> shadowmaster: Yeah. Bad communication is bad, mmkay.
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 22 00:00:36 2011