--- Log opened Thu Sep 22 00:00:36 2011
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20110922 00:02:32< shadowmaster> so, does anyone have any idea why we aren't getting transparent portraits  as of r51250
20110922 00:02:42< shadowmaster> oops, I accidentally a question mark
20110922 00:03:52< shadowmaster> rugh, I hate these "strip trailing whitespace" commmits
20110922 00:04:15 * Gambit hugs Kate for doing that automagically for him
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20110922 00:25:46< anonymissimus> thonsew: damn!
20110922 00:26:11< anonymissimus> it will not be sufficient to fix all the bugs you caused
20110922 00:26:47< anonymissimus> in order to please me; I see how sloppily you are working and I can't stand that sry
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20110922 00:31:54< Gambit> ..
20110922 00:32:00< Gambit> Let the man work :<
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20110922 00:54:39< fendrin> Isn't thonsew a gsoc student? His mentor should go after him if so.
20110922 00:58:20< fendrin> The resolutions selectable in the preferences, are they hardcoded or somehow read from the xserver/windowswhatever ?
20110922 01:01:07< shadowmaster> fendrin: no, he is not
20110922 01:02:11< shadowmaster> as for the resolutions, they are reported by SDL; try looking for calls to SDL_ListModes() or such
20110922 01:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 198 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110922 01:05:56< fendrin> shadowmaster: I am asking because I would like to support widescreen/narrowscreen resolutions in one theme.
20110922 01:07:35< shadowmaster> I suspected as much, though TBH I don't like the idea of having two sidebars displaying two different units at the same time
20110922 01:08:37< shadowmaster> I also dislike your abuse of kitty's portraits; they are not made to be scaled down at willl
20110922 01:09:50< fendrin> shadowmaster: Yes I am aware of that. I am solving the problem of my flat mate. He is nearly blind and needs big images to identify the units correctly. Maybe I should call that another "visial impaired" theme.
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20110922 01:10:09< fendrin> It will also get bigger fonts.
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20110922 01:48:51< Alarantalara> is there anyone around right now that can help me with debugging race conditions leading to deadlocks in a section of Wesnoth I'm unfamiliar with?
20110922 01:50:41< fendrin> Alarantalara: Which classes are you working in?
20110922 01:50:46< Alarantalara> re: https://gna.org/bugs/?18320, https://gna.org/bugs/?18144, https://gna.org/bugs/?18139, https://gna.org/bugs/?18126
20110922 01:51:41< fendrin> Alarantalara: All mac bugs. You need a mac developer to help you, right?
20110922 01:51:52< Alarantalara> it looks like game_display::invalidate_animations is usually the location
20110922 01:52:14< Alarantalara> I actually suspect it's introduced by OpenMP
20110922 01:52:19< Alarantalara> giving the timing
20110922 01:52:48< Alarantalara> It looks like the scheduler on OS X just exposes it more easily
20110922 01:54:11< Alarantalara> and they don't tend to get reproduced if I produce a debug build of course :(
20110922 01:54:31< fendrin> heisenbugs
20110922 01:55:27< Alarantalara> so I'm more looking for a guide to what invalidate_animations might be waiting for
20110922 01:57:00< Alarantalara> since for all I know, the thread that locked it might have exited
20110922 01:57:35< shadowmaster> I suspect boucman may be more able to help you since he worked on introducing OMP support and knows a lot about the animation code
20110922 01:58:18< Alarantalara> sounds good, when is he usually around?
20110922 01:59:41< shadowmaster> eh, no idea? :( he lives in France
20110922 02:01:04< Alarantalara> so I should try for day around UTC +0, I guess
20110922 02:02:46< shadowmaster> probably
20110922 02:04:25< Alarantalara> I guess it'll have to wait until this weekend unless I get lucky with Helgrind
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20110922 02:30:35< Alarantalara> and GCC 4.2's OpenMP implementation is not compatible with helgrind :(
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20110922 04:00:45< Alarantalara> I have a fix for bug #18602 (forest drawn above keeps), but it will only work for mainline - the problem would continue with UMC keeps (mostly affects doofus01)
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20110922 04:01:05< Alarantalara> Fixing it for UMC as well would destroy the nice layering effect with units
20110922 04:01:19< Alarantalara> and forest
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20110922 04:07:31< Alarantalara> so both fixes plus the original situation all look ugly
20110922 04:07:55< Alarantalara> So: who do I contact to make a call on appearance related issues
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20110922 04:21:02< Alarantalara> on futher thought, this seems like what the Art Development forum was made for. Posting there.
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20110922 06:29:30< CIA-7> espreon * r51251 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/12_The_Final_Confrontation.cfg: Killed another reference to liminal.
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20110922 07:30:24< Espreon> zookeeper: Hello.
20110922 07:30:43< zookeeper> hello
20110922 07:31:50< Espreon> zookeeper: You should svn up your copy of UtBSE if you haven't already.
20110922 07:32:01 * Espreon ported some recent changes from mainline about an hour or so ago
20110922 07:32:52< zookeeper> okay
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20110922 07:46:50< Espreon> wesbot: topic
20110922 07:46:52-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 207 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110922 07:46:56< Espreon> Om nom nom...
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20110922 11:32:34< nephro> wesbot: seen Crab_
20110922 11:32:34< wesbot> nephro: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 5d 14h ago.  5d 8h ago they left with the message: Quit: Do it for joy and you can do it forever
20110922 11:41:23< nephro> Crab_ : hi, I've travelled back to uni and hoping to get an internet connection soon. Noticed a bug report about the skeletal dragon in EI 13. (https://gna.org/bugs/?18356). IIRC we had a talk about this, and decided to rewrite the per_tod goals to a Lua script. I didn't do that because I noticed that the dragon wasn't actually patrolling, but was just approaching my leader instead(just as the bug reporter described). Do you still
20110922 11:42:45< nephro> Crab_: also, I don't really know what the dragon should do when not patrolling(e.g. attacked). Are there any docs(scripts) of how campaigns should look like?
20110922 11:43:57< nephro> Actually, that's a question for all. If I decide to fix a scenario bug, I can't really do that, since I don't know what the author of the campaign intended to do. I believe there must be some sort of documents describing the behaviour of units, sides etc
20110922 11:44:12< zookeeper> well...
20110922 11:44:29< zookeeper> it's sort of undefined what the dragon should really be doing. "wander around randomly", yes, but that's not very specific.
20110922 11:45:00< nephro> I can't make it wander, but if some1 starts pounding on it, what should it do then?
20110922 11:45:05< nephro> s/can't/can
20110922 11:45:06< Ivanovic> nephro: your message was cut off at "described). Do you still"
20110922 11:45:25< nephro> Do you still want me to rewrite that to Lua, using the patrol with the given waypoints?#
20110922 11:45:38< zookeeper> nephro, well, i can describe my idea of what it should do, but it might be a bit complicated...
20110922 11:45:39< nephro> *webchat.freenode is nasty
20110922 11:46:01< nephro> zookeeper: feel free if you have a minute
20110922 11:46:05< nephro> *to do that
20110922 11:46:22< zookeeper> anyway, i've had that scenario open in my text editor for a week or two now, just in case i manage to get myself to fix it ;)
20110922 11:46:26< zookeeper> sure
20110922 11:48:00< nephro> zookeeper: the existing wandering mechanism isn't working and the only way I see fixing it is with a Lua script, that is a Lua backed candidate action(new AI of course :) )
20110922 11:49:23< zookeeper> ok, so, i think initially it should stay put. then, whenever player units come within a radius of X from it, it should try to attack those units, but only if doing so doesn't expose it too much; that is, if it doesn't bring itself within range of high-level mages, iron maulers etc.
20110922 11:49:48< zookeeper> so basically it should try to make hit-and-run attacks, and then return to its castle if it runs out of good targets
20110922 11:50:17< nephro> zookeeper: so no patrolling?
20110922 11:50:54< zookeeper> it shouldn't be too easy for the player to just lure it out and then pound it with arch mages
20110922 11:51:03< zookeeper> yeah, i don't think patrolling is really needed
20110922 11:51:46< zookeeper> that was probably originally intended to just make it more difficult to use a cheap trick to get it to attack so you can trap it
20110922 11:51:58< nephro> ok, I got the idea. I'll start working on that once I get internet in my flat(if someone doesn't fix that faster)
20110922 11:53:16< nephro> zookeeper: but regarding the docs: are there really none? I just don't see how distributed development of levels is possible without such scripts
20110922 11:53:56< zookeeper> there's rarely several people working on a single campaign. especially when they're all finished and only need maintenance.
20110922 11:54:11< zookeeper> you can always check the _main.cfg of each campaign to see who the current maintainer is and ask them
20110922 11:56:18< zookeeper> but really, all actual changes (not just technical bugfixes) should go through the campaign maintainers, and they'll be familiar enough with the campaign that they'll know how scenarios are supposed to work. that's not something that's written down anywhere.
20110922 11:56:45< nephro> k, thanks
20110922 11:56:46< zookeeper> and sometimes the way scenarios work are changed
20110922 11:56:50< nephro> i have to run to the lecture now
20110922 11:57:02< nephro> If you have something important to say, I'll read the logs
20110922 11:57:05< nephro> thanks, bye
20110922 12:00:24< zookeeper> i guess i don't have much to add. in this particular case, it's a bit ambiguous how the scenario was originally intended to work exactly, and it's so old that it's pretty much guaranteed that the limitations of WML at the time forced the author to make a compromise and go with a simple patrolling dragon instead of actually making it more intelligent.
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20110922 12:04:24< zookeeper> so, whenever faced with a situation like that, it's all right to do a bit of re-designing based on what sort of things can be done now, as long as it doesn't change what the scenario is about or break the balance completely.
20110922 12:05:34< zookeeper> but changes should still primarily be done with gameplay in mind; the reason i want a more cautious hit-and-run dragon is that i think it'll be a more interesting challenge for the player than a dragon which, like all enemies, charges at you once and fights to the death.
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20110922 13:00:16< thonsew> Hello again.
20110922 13:00:16< thonsew> First, thank you for all of the bug reports.  Keep them coming.  Some of the bugs like the static de-initialization bugs (crashing on exit) I would never and will never be able to replicate on my machine.  
20110922 13:00:16< thonsew> Second, I have poorly communicated my intent and progress (or lack thereof).  I will try and rectify that below, in a question and answer style, focusing on the lua problems.  The TA answers are more technical.
20110922 13:00:30< thonsew> Q1. What does t_token do and why is it a good thing?
20110922 13:00:30< thonsew> A1. When I profiled wesnoth I noticed that it was spending more than 25% of its time allocating, constructing and parsing the exact same strings.  t_token is a way that it can allocate, parse and construct a given string once per game. When I profiled 1.9.9 versus trunk yesterday it is 23% faster running one turn of the orcs, which I think is a substantial speed improvement. 
20110922 13:00:31< thonsew> TA. t_token uses an unordered_map to change copying, copy construction, equality comparison and hashing of strings and string literals of O(1) operations requiring no memory allocation.
20110922 13:00:48< thonsew> Q2. Why is there a problem with lua?
20110922 13:00:48< thonsew> A2. Lua and wesnoth don't consider t_token to be the same kind of string.  Lua handles strings in exactly the same way as t_token, with a table for fast equality comparison and copying.  So there are now 2 different hash tables for the same string.  If lua is used primarily for user interface operations on a human time scale, then the slow down of constructing a string, passing a string and constructing a t_token/lua_string will be imper
20110922 13:00:48< thonsew> ceptible.  However, if as I suspect lua code is being used to do loops at AI time scales, then that will wipeout all of the gains of t_token in lua intensive code.
20110922 13:01:16< thonsew> Q3. How are you trying to solve this problem and what is the problem with the solution?
20110922 13:01:16< thonsew> A3. If you create a third table to lookup lua_string <--> t_token then neither side of the transaction pays the price for crossing the interface.  The lua bug problem right now is this fix is leaking into user based lua code.
20110922 13:01:16< thonsew> TA3. Lua indexes tables or metatables with hashed of lua_strings, userdata or lightuserdata with equal facility.  So I have tried to solve the problem by created a t_token userdata proxy for t_token that lua can use as an index into its tables and also the wesnoth classes that are exposed through the lua interface.  The problem with this solution is that lua does not all for the creation of a heterogeneous __eq operator in a metatable.  
20110922 13:01:18< thonsew> Consequently, there is no way to create userdata that will act as a interchangeable component with string in userland lua.  However, inside wesnoth lualand I am going to try to use this proxy to make the lua work correctly and quickly if profiling shows that the lua<-->wesnoth boundary is a source of slowdown
20110922 13:01:34< thonsew> Q4. What did you mean in the previous commit comment by the lua code hole?
20110922 13:01:34< thonsew> A4. The wesnoth lua interface is designed to allow for the execution of arbitrary userland lua code.  I need to fix the wesnoth code so that references to the t_token object never leak into userland and so that all strings from userland are properly converted to t_tokens.
20110922 13:01:52< thonsew> Q5. Why is it taking so long?
20110922 13:01:52< thonsew> A5. There is no lua automated set of test to test the entire lua interface, so I need to run specific scenarios to uncover problems and then fix them.  That is why it is good to keep submitting bugs in mainline campaigns until I've found and fixed them all.
20110922 13:01:52< thonsew> TA5a. There are no lua/WML unit tests.  I do not know enough about the expected syntactic rules to write them.  Without unit tests all I can do is find/fix lua bugs by running scenarios.
20110922 13:01:52< thonsew> TA5c. There are the wesnoth.zzz functions defined in game_events, the wml_actions operations defined in lua.cpp, the userdata C++ metatable operations also described in lua.cpp and the wml_actions and helper functions defined in lua code.  Finding all the places where there is a type mismatch at the interface between lua and C++ without strict typing or type inference is a time consuming process running scenarios in the debugger.
20110922 13:02:08< thonsew> Q6. What went wrong?
20110922 13:02:09< thonsew> A6. I tested with HttT Scenario 1 and NR Showdown and the unit_tests, none of which have lua that threw errors in them.  
20110922 13:02:44< thonsew> That is all.  I hope that clarifies what I did, why I did it, what went wrong and how I intend to fix it. Thanks.  
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20110922 13:31:47< CIA-7> thonsew * r51252 /trunk/ (data/scenario-test.cfg src/unit_types.cpp): Fixed transparency broken by previous fix of static de-initialization of t_tokens
20110922 13:31:54< CIA-7> thonsew * r51253 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Fixed bug #18668 [time_area] causes seq fault which was due to grabbing a non-exitent token from utils::split_attr
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20110922 13:47:21< nihathrael> hi, where in the code can i find the WML loading?
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20110922 15:05:15< anonymissimus> thonsew: (I hope you will read that, although I pretty doubt it...)
20110922 15:05:25< anonymissimus> thonsew: not it is not sufficient
20110922 15:06:18< anonymissimus> thonsew: your motivation is unertsnadable but the way you are doing the whole thing is inacceptable
20110922 15:07:29< fendrin> Ivanovic: Hello, 1024x768 is broken, the full gui does no longer fit in the 1024 width.
20110922 15:07:40< anonymissimus> one death-criteria for you lua changes is for instance that you are breaking any UMC out there wich defines a custom tag which happens to get passed a config and accesses some attributes
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20110922 15:09:36< fendrin> Ivanovic: So I am going to make the first resolution which features the full gui 1280x768?
20110922 15:09:44< anonymissimus> thonsew: another death criteria is that you are constantly pushing the work that you ought to do yourself to other developers
20110922 15:09:48< fendrin> Or better 1280x720?
20110922 15:10:52< anonymissimus> you do this by constantly causing bugs which prevent me and other devs from doing what we wanted and we then are forced to make the reports; it is not enough to be so thankful for the reports
20110922 15:13:36< fendrin> thonsew: And y that is my job. Do no
20110922 15:14:08< fendrin> thonsew: Usually that is my job. So you me make me angry as well for stealing my role. ;-)
20110922 15:18:36< anonymissimus> 3. another giant problem is that, after reading your messages above, I maybe understant point 1) and 2) I think
20110922 15:18:56< anonymissimus> and I am beginning to think that this is not my fault, it is yours
20110922 15:19:39< anonymissimus> if you think you are doing so something great which nobody else can grasp than you have to eplain it so that it gets accepted
20110922 15:20:53< anonymissimus> for instance, instead of trying to solve as fast as possible the bugs thrown at you you should try to explain all these changes in teh wesnoth forums to the eople learning their firts real programming laguage (lua)
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20110922 15:30:45< zookeeper> what do any of those have to do with lua newbies..?
20110922 15:33:57< anonymissimus> they do have to do that when someone wants to write a new tag for his UMC lua works now a bit differently
20110922 15:34:37< anonymissimus> as I said above "UMC out there wich defines a custom tag which happens to get passed a config and accesses some attributes"
20110922 15:35:38< anonymissimus> if you have wml_actions_some_tag(cfg) and this tag gets called by wml, all the keys in it are now of type userdata, namely token
20110922 15:36:00< Crendgrim> so, did the way of creating WML tags with Lua change, or will it be reverted? Or is this still to be discussed? (Only asking to decide whether or not to do further work on my campaign...)
20110922 15:36:32< anonymissimus> it did change and you can bother thonsew for eplaining it
20110922 15:36:37< anonymissimus> instead of me
20110922 15:36:52< Crendgrim> I didn't mean to bother you in any way
20110922 15:37:01< Crendgrim> I just wanted to know if I understood it correctly
20110922 15:37:38< zookeeper> anonymissimus, so is the lua interface changing in that way a bug or an intended change?
20110922 15:37:41< anonymissimus> but as far as I'm concerned, unless most of the garbage he does gets reverted I may look for another OOS project to contribute to
20110922 15:37:56< anonymissimus> it is intended
20110922 15:38:01< anonymissimus> by him
20110922 15:38:47< anonymissimus> he intentionally breaks UMC
20110922 15:39:17< fendrin> anonymissimus: Have you quotes for your claim?
20110922 15:39:22< Crendgrim> hum.. please don't do the same what silene did :/
20110922 15:39:27< anonymissimus> to achieve this so great goal for "speeding up lua-intensive scenarios"
20110922 15:39:55< anonymissimus> which is nonsense anyway, there are harldly" lua loops at ai time scale"
20110922 15:40:05< zookeeper> well calm down in any case
20110922 15:40:30< anonymissimus> fendrin: explain
20110922 15:41:06< Gambit> You're claiming that it is his intention to break UMC
20110922 15:41:13< Gambit> fendrin is telling you [citation_needed]
20110922 15:41:44< fendrin> I understood you right that thonsew wants to break lua? My impression is more that he broke it accidentally. And that he is willing to fix the problems.
20110922 15:42:17< fendrin> break lua umc compatibility
20110922 15:42:52< anonymissimus> um, as far as the issue above is concerned, I am pretty sure he did iz intentionally
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20110922 15:43:18< anonymissimus> he asked me how it should be possbile to avoid breaking UMC
20110922 15:43:28< anonymissimus> the answer is: by not doing the whole thing
20110922 15:46:42< anonymissimus> for instance, look at function wml_actions.store_map_dimensions(cfg) in wml-tags.lua
20110922 15:46:52< zookeeper> everyone knows that he broke stuff
20110922 15:47:10< anonymissimus> cfg.variable gets you a userdata now when called by wml
20110922 15:47:34< anonymissimus> so he inserted that tostring(var) calls
20110922 15:48:22< anonymissimus> imho the whole token stuff is wrong to expose to lua, it should stay completely internally in C++
20110922 15:49:21< fendrin> At least his argumentation style is polite and he tries to explain why he is doing what. I do not sense the intention to break umc.
20110922 15:50:04< Gambit> Oh by vitriolic hyperbole is so much fun fendrin. You must try it.
20110922 15:50:09< Gambit> *Oh but
20110922 15:50:30< fendrin> Gambit: ?
20110922 15:50:52< anonymissimus> well maybe I should rephrase: he accepts that he cant avoid breaking UMC
20110922 15:51:16< anonymissimus> that is, I dont accuse him of not trying to avoid it
20110922 15:51:32< Gambit> "break" - Are they still able to do what they could before?
20110922 15:51:35< Gambit> Just in a different way?
20110922 15:51:41< fendrin> But we break umc with every new release. A new stable is never umc compatible to the old.
20110922 15:51:53< Gambit> ^
20110922 15:52:10< anonymissimus> well yes but it invokes lots of unneccessary code editing
20110922 15:52:15< Gambit> Making UMC authors rewrite a few things isn't really breaking.
20110922 15:52:43< anonymissimus> of course, but what he is doing is a lot more breakage than usual
20110922 15:53:00< elias> is the new way better than the old way?
20110922 15:53:10< anonymissimus> 1) he does not document it in any way
20110922 15:53:29< anonymissimus> 2) he will likely not explain it to the users
20110922 15:53:50< anonymissimus> (since he hasn't posted anything in teh wml workshop or lua forum yet)
20110922 15:53:53< Gambit> Perhaps he hasn't had time because it's not finished yet.
20110922 15:54:21< Gambit> I'm sure he also wouldn't mind some other concerned person doing it.
20110922 15:54:26< anonymissimus> "is the new way better than the old way?" is it worse
20110922 15:54:31< anonymissimus> it is worse
20110922 15:55:01< anonymissimus> 1) it requires a lot of changes in existing lua code for no good reason
20110922 15:56:12< anonymissimus> 2) it makes writing lua tags more comlicated than neccessary
20110922 15:56:45< Espreon> Then ask him nicely to keep it out of Lua. HEAVY emphasis on "nicely".
20110922 15:56:52< Espreon> You're the Lua maintainer.
20110922 15:57:02 * anonymissimus struggles to be nice a lot
20110922 15:57:58< fendrin> anonymissimus: That is my problem as well. My German accent English sounds always unfriendly.
20110922 15:59:31< Espreon> Then you need to study friendly speech.
20110922 16:00:08< anonymissimus> 3) the reason he gives for making such huge changes ("lua loops on ai time scale") do not really appear much in wesnoth (lua) code, be it mainline or UMC
20110922 16:01:02< anonymissimus> and generally, look ta hos revisions: does he ever take a careful look at the diffs he is creating ???
20110922 16:01:29< anonymissimus> why does he change code formatting (and only formatting) in lines he did not change otherwise ?
20110922 16:01:52< anonymissimus> it makes the commit look much harder to look at than neccessary
20110922 16:02:17< elias> oh, yes, i usually ask for a new patch if someone does that :P
20110922 16:02:18< Espreon> Well, it sounds like we need to nicely ask him to adhere to our format and discuss major changes before making them.
20110922 16:02:21< anonymissimus> that is a severe hint on too fast and too sloppy work INHO
20110922 16:02:52< anonymissimus> and I see a lot of similar things, I just mention some examples
20110922 16:03:20< fendrin> I am sure he does not know that the bigger diff is a problem.
20110922 16:03:36< anonymissimus> why does he put *A TON* of unrelated things into one giant commit ?
20110922 16:04:00< fendrin> That all sounds like things he needs to learn.
20110922 16:04:06< fendrin> But let's try it nicely.
20110922 16:04:20< Espreon> And this is why we need to be proactive... not reactive.
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20110922 16:05:33< fendrin> Espreon: A document for new developers explaining some rules would be nice.
20110922 16:05:59< Espreon> Indeed.
20110922 16:06:15< fendrin> Most people just get the commit access and have to learn it the hard way by annoying other developers and getting unfriendly words in response.
20110922 16:06:19< anonymissimus> fendrin: I don't primarily complain about the size of his diffs - I complain about 1) putting unrelated things into teh same diff and 2) putting unneccessary changes into it
20110922 16:07:35< fendrin> anonymissimus: I see. Both points that need to be addressed in a "New developers guide".
20110922 16:08:02< anonymissimus> making small diffs and looking precisely at them is a good way to force onelsef to not be so fast and sloppy like he is
20110922 16:08:51< elias> yes, all sounds like normal beginner mistakes
20110922 16:09:21< fendrin> I did (and do still some) all of them. 
20110922 16:09:29< anonymissimus> I will in any case insist on the lua changes being completely reverted, that is, lua coders must nto need to know anything of "token"
20110922 16:09:54< anonymissimus> there should be internla conversion, if needed
20110922 16:10:16< anonymissimus> elias: so would you judge him to be a beginner ?
20110922 16:10:16< fendrin> anonymissimus: I agree whatever he does to speed up string usage should not be visible to the lua coder.
20110922 16:10:35< Espreon> I too agree.
20110922 16:10:37< elias> anonymissimus: not necessarily as coder, but as open source project contributor, most likely
20110922 16:11:42< elias> i was scolded for years about too short commit messages in another project myself before i finally stopped using the -m option and wrote more detailed descriptions :P
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20110922 16:13:13< anonymissimus> but honestly, can anyone of the more experienced coders please take a look at his eplanations whether they understand them
20110922 16:13:31< anonymissimus> I know I don't know much C++ theory
20110922 16:14:32< fendrin> His motives are noble.
20110922 16:15:17< fendrin> 25% speed up means a boost in life time on mobile devices.
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20110922 16:16:12< loonycyborg> That boost applies only to a rather pathalogical scenario.
20110922 16:16:12< anonymissimus> he did that only for the 2 wml scenarios you know
20110922 16:16:22< loonycyborg> Namely involving NR :P
20110922 16:17:32< Gallaecio> 2 scenarios are more than 0 :P
20110922 16:17:57< anonymissimus> he made the complete lua changes just because he "thinks" the are beneficial
20110922 16:18:34< Gallaecio> Haven’t they been tested yet?
20110922 16:19:30< Gallaecio> I mean, once tested, keep is there is a boost, else revert.
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20110922 16:21:04< fendrin> It is also a matter of memory if I understood his explanations correctly.
20110922 16:21:50< fendrin> Java for example uses a hash map based string management at all times.
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20110922 16:23:59< fendrin> Didn't Kyle Pole use something similar to speed up wesnoth on the iphone and to reduce memory usage?
20110922 16:25:39< anonymissimus> look at the bug tracker guys...each after his revisions there are soon several bugs reported, this is not a way one can work with him
20110922 16:26:10< anonymissimus> and mostly they are rather critical bugs, that is, prevent others from doing what they wanted
20110922 16:28:04< anonymissimus> it should be better to admit that there currently is none with the time neccessary who is good enough to make this token stuff
20110922 16:28:23< anonymissimus> it was a todo on silenes list ig I get it right
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20110922 16:39:33 * fendrin wonders which resolution he should aim at.
20110922 16:40:00< fendrin> 1024 is broken so I need to tune it.
20110922 16:40:21< fendrin> Should 1280 be the first resolution with full sized gui?
20110922 16:40:32< fendrin> Or better something odd between?
20110922 16:44:59< elias> if lua is too slow, someone should work on integrating one of those lua-jit compilers
20110922 16:45:10< elias> means lua should execute at nearly the same speed as C++
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20110922 16:46:15< fendrin> hi timotei
20110922 16:46:19< timotei> hi fendrin  :)
20110922 16:47:42< Ivanovic> fendrin: no, i'd say you *fix* 1024x768!
20110922 16:47:57< Ivanovic> fendrin: that is: or find out who broke this resolution
20110922 16:48:25< Ivanovic> honestly, having a "default resolution" of >1024x768 for a game in wesnoths style is just *strange* and really, really *wrong*
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20110922 16:48:36< fendrin> Ivanovic: Okay, please let me explain.
20110922 16:49:37< fendrin> Ivanovic: If you start Wesnoth in 1024x768 you will notice that the description of the terrain is no longer fitting in the gui when the terrain is a mixed one.
20110922 16:49:48< Ivanovic> it never fitted!
20110922 16:49:54< Ivanovic> nothing new there at all
20110922 16:50:09< fendrin> Ivanovic: But it does fit again when 800x600 is used.
20110922 16:50:20< fendrin> Because there we have a smaller gui.
20110922 16:50:28< Ivanovic> only because fonts are extremely scaled down at lower resolutions
20110922 16:50:35< fendrin> No.
20110922 16:50:51< fendrin> I mean yes.
20110922 16:50:54< Ivanovic> IMO making a larger resolution the default just sucks
20110922 16:51:08< Ivanovic> especially if this leads to rather smallish fonts in the "old" default
20110922 16:51:20< Ivanovic> sorry, better work on a different approach to display the data
20110922 16:51:22< fendrin> This is not a default question.
20110922 16:51:40< Ivanovic> it is very much so, when starting wesnoth without any config it starts in a 1024x768 window
20110922 16:51:52< Ivanovic> and if that resolution is not usable, it really sucks
20110922 16:51:53< nihathrael> there are a lot of people playing on small machines like netbooks, so making a bigger is probably not a too good idea
20110922 16:53:14< fendrin> Anyway, the issue should be fixed. 
20110922 16:53:30< Ivanovic> if you are usually using a "small" resolution you are likely to be rather close to the display, eg in case or a laptop or netbook
20110922 16:53:48< fendrin> It can't be that I need to switch to a even lower resolution to get all the info.
20110922 16:53:50< Ivanovic> while with "normal" desktop displays you tend to be further away, there the tiny fonts would lead to very strained eyes
20110922 16:54:04< Ivanovic> no, the info should be displayed in some better way
20110922 16:54:12< fendrin> Right
20110922 16:54:15< fendrin> How?
20110922 16:54:35< fendrin> Give me the info now because I work on the theme wml at the moment.
20110922 16:54:40< Ivanovic> no idea, i already managed fixing the interface for "small res" though that ain't the perfect fixes and non working fixes for larger resolutions
20110922 16:54:46< Ivanovic> and atm i have *no* time to look into things
20110922 16:55:08< fendrin> That is a pity.
20110922 16:55:10< Ivanovic> you can ask me again in about 3 weeks, then i should be done with my thesis and have some free time, atm i am 100% swamped with no free wesnoth or "anything fun" time
20110922 16:59:20< fendrin> Ivanovic: But you are aware that 1024 does have the portraits being scaled down already? I think it either the default resolution should feature not down scaled portrait images or be higher. 
20110922 16:59:50< Ivanovic> fendrin: you are *very* welcome to fix and improve anything you find!
20110922 17:00:23< Ivanovic> but i got no time to crosscheck/verify anything atm, i am barely able to skip over the forums if there is something requiring my immediate attention
20110922 17:00:36< Ivanovic> and i clearly won't have time to tag a release before i am done with the thesis
20110922 17:00:46< Ivanovic> am inactive again now
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20110922 17:41:05< anonymissimus> thonsew: admittedly, r51250 makes in some parts a lot of sense to me now
20110922 17:41:25< anonymissimus> what you aren doing is making tokens optionally available in lua
20110922 17:42:03< anonymissimus> apart from you could have written that into your commit message it is what you should have doen in the first place
20110922 17:42:28< anonymissimus> before you even modify any of the .lua files
20110922 17:42:40< anonymissimus> still it's way to sloppily done
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20110922 17:55:38< _jay> hey all, quick question- if I install 1.9 from here https://launchpad.net/~rhonda/+archive/wesnoth-devel  will it overwrite my 1.8? I've had this issue with gimp 2.7 overwriting 2.6
20110922 18:07:01< CIA-7> ai0867 * r51254 /trunk/po/wesnoth-aoi/nl.po: Tiny translation fix
20110922 18:09:10< zookeeper> _jay, started on any animations yet? i talked with jetrel and he said that better melee anims for the mages would be more useful that death anims.
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20110922 18:25:21< AI0867> Rhonda: 17:55 < _jay> hey all, quick question- if I install 1.9 from here https://launchpad.net/~rhonda/+archive/wesnoth-devel  will it overwrite my 1.8? I've had this issue  with gimp 2.7 overwriting 2.6
20110922 18:31:13< Mkaysi> AI0867: I think that it won't, because they have different package names.
20110922 18:32:05< Mkaysi> 1.8 package is called wesnoth-1.8 and 1.9 from Rhonda's PPA is wesnoth-1.9
20110922 18:33:04 * Mkaysi goes afk
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20110922 19:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 206 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110922 19:10:05< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51255 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20110922 19:10:05< CIA-7> Reverted r51250 and r51240.
20110922 19:10:05< CIA-7> thonsew: The lua interface is not your playground. This is not the way I want the lua files or its C++ interface to be modified. You are invited to talk
20110922 19:10:05< CIA-7> with me on IRC.
20110922 19:10:05< CIA-7> some of the main reasons:
20110922 19:10:05< CIA-7> -Your revisions contain lots of unneccessary changes, some of which break existing lua or wml without a reason. Do you ever look at the diffs ?
20110922 19:10:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110922 19:10:07< CIA-7> -Your revisions pack a lot of unrelated stuff together into one.
20110922 19:11:23-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053190247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110922 19:12:32< anonymissimus> now lets see whatn comes out of it
20110922 19:12:47< anonymissimus> someone needs to step up and stop him
20110922 19:13:00 * Espreon hopes that all will go well
20110922 19:13:23< Espreon> ... and not result in permenant rægquitting.
20110922 19:13:51< anonymissimus> well, I'd prefer to have him come here and explain his changes
20110922 19:14:40< timotei> No offense but, we're creating our own "playgrounds"? :P
20110922 19:14:42< anonymissimus> but it seems his strategy is "avoiding talk and fix everything they throw at me as quickly as possible"
20110922 19:14:54< anonymissimus> thonsew, yes
20110922 19:15:02< timotei> I declare open-source my umc ide playground!
20110922 19:15:47< timotei> Really, I guess everybody will be happy if we would create a branch for the new token stuff? :)
20110922 19:16:09< timotei> Though I guess we'd need some people to test that branch from time to time :-S. Otherwise we don't get any help
20110922 19:16:22< timotei> I'd say AI0867 knows better how to created that branch if it's so
20110922 19:16:23< anonymissimus> "in order to prove that i am able to handle all problems"
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20110922 19:16:56< anonymissimus> I want him to change coding style, really
20110922 19:17:32< timotei> well, yeah, we could enforce that 
20110922 19:17:36< timotei> xD
20110922 19:18:31< timotei> we should*
20110922 19:37:07< elias> who's wesnoth's human resources manager?
20110922 19:40:17< noy> god?
20110922 19:40:41< noy> oh, wait... a little more politically correct: the universe
20110922 19:45:02< timotei> yay. We are good at something at least: http://www.worldit.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/world-internet-speeds-pando1.jpg
20110922 19:56:19< elias> timotei: you're from South Korea?
20110922 19:56:26< timotei> elias: no. Romania xD
20110922 19:56:35< elias> ah. I'm jealous
20110922 19:56:43< timotei> :P
20110922 19:57:49< elias> i'm far below worldwide average :(
20110922 19:57:51< elias> hm
20110922 19:58:04< elias> depending on if KBps is byte or bit
20110922 19:58:43< timotei> BK is bit.... iirc
20110922 19:58:46< timotei> KB*
20110922 19:58:49< timotei> or not?
20110922 19:59:14< elias> usually kb/s is bit and kB/s is byte
20110922 19:59:22< timotei> Ah. KB is byte. You're right
20110922 19:59:51< elias> and the numbers make more sense with bytes
20110922 20:13:36< Sytyi> timotei: we are in that list too :-)
20110922 20:14:46< CIA-7> fendrin * r51256 /trunk/data/themes/default.cfg: Adds support for the 1024x600 resolution which is used by many netbooks.
20110922 20:15:24< timotei> Sytyi: heh :D
20110922 20:16:01< Sytyi> timotei: I have 4 Mbit
20110922 20:18:04< AI0867> fendrin: 'add' support?
20110922 20:18:19< AI0867> This netbook is 1024x600, and it plays wesnoth just fine
20110922 20:18:45< fendrin> AI0867: "Enhance" would have been better.
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20110922 20:30:12< fendrin> AI0867: Do you think it is worth a changelog entry?
20110922 20:31:06< anonymissimus> the changelog is somethign thonsew always forgets too btw
20110922 20:31:31< timotei> anonymissimus: you really think the performance benefits are worth mentioning?
20110922 20:31:48< timotei> IIRC when silene fixed that animation long-loading times in trunk he didn't mention anything
20110922 20:31:49< timotei> xD
20110922 20:32:04< anonymissimus> from experience it's known that unless changelog entries are made immediately they tend to be forgotten
20110922 20:32:07< timotei> Maybe if all scenarios are tested, and as release note
20110922 20:32:10< anonymissimus> timotei: explain
20110922 20:32:24< timotei> like you said, he tested just 2 scenarios/campaigns
20110922 20:32:40< timotei> in order for mentioning the *real* performance benefit I think multiple campaigns should be tested
20110922 20:32:59< timotei> hmm
20110922 20:33:04< timotei> I have an idea
20110922 20:33:07< anonymissimus> well, I'm sort of sure that as far as all teh lua changes are concerned, it's negligible
20110922 20:33:24< timotei> anonymissimus: you were saying that... on different scenarios you get lua errors or so.
20110922 20:33:27< timotei> Is that just at startup?
20110922 20:33:34< anonymissimus> well no
20110922 20:33:45< timotei> Because if so, I could make a lil' script with that command-line scenario startup
20110922 20:33:45< anonymissimus> its everywhere and everywhen
20110922 20:33:47< timotei> ah. ok
20110922 20:34:24< anonymissimus> he didnt even profile a lua intensice scenario _before_ making his changes
20110922 20:34:49< timotei> the thing I understand is, that lua *already* uses some interned strings
20110922 20:34:58< timotei> so they ... collide with the t_token stuff?
20110922 20:34:59< anonymissimus> not that I ever used a profiler myself, though, but it's pretty clear what it does
20110922 20:35:30< timotei> And thonsew tried to bind them to play nice?
20110922 20:35:32< anonymissimus> well, I suggest to go back before the first revision with all teh token stuff
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20110922 20:35:54< anonymissimus> there are too much references, he doesnt get to fix it all
20110922 20:36:12< timotei> If so, I think that branching before the revert a branch with current state should be created
20110922 20:36:30< timotei> And to tell beforehand to thonsew so he won't commit on trunk by mistake...
20110922 20:36:34< anonymissimus> it shoudl maybe introduced as an alternative from the start; create a config_new class or somethign and then start using that at a few places
20110922 20:36:44< timotei> Ah...
20110922 20:36:47< timotei> Good point
20110922 20:37:08< anonymissimus> I am afraid of that branch getting merged
20110922 20:37:18< timotei> Though maybe the t_token should be used outside of config anyway
20110922 20:37:25< anonymissimus> his revisions are so horribly messed up
20110922 20:37:26< timotei> Merged when it's ... playable? xD
20110922 20:38:11< anonymissimus> and I suggest some general rules:
20110922 20:38:36< anonymissimus> -if you don't have a good reason to modify a certain line of code, don't do it
20110922 20:39:00< anonymissimus> -if it's possible to split apart a certain change into revisions, do it
20110922 20:39:44< anonymissimus> he violates those two all the time and he's creating lots of bugs because he doesn't actually know what he does
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20110922 20:43:31< softcoder> hello, any devs here?
20110922 20:43:56< Soliton> how about you ask an actual question?
20110922 20:44:15< softcoder> ok does wesnoth a) use SDL and B) support chinese input under windows?
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20110922 20:44:30< fendrin> a) yes
20110922 20:44:47< timotei> b) Espreon might know better xD
20110922 20:44:56< timotei> Rr not. He doesn't use Windows
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20110922 20:46:46< softcoder> I work on megaglest (fork of Glest) and have all the unicodee and utf8 stuff working to display internation characters
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20110922 20:47:14< softcoder> and chinese input does work on Ubuntu.. now I'm trying on XP and its not seeming to send the keystrokes
20110922 20:48:25< softcoder> or rather receive them via SDL
20110922 20:57:48< loonycyborg> softcoder: How exactly does chinese input work?
20110922 20:58:25< softcoder> in XP you install the language then pick it. As you start typing you see a candidate list of chinese chars
20110922 20:58:35< softcoder> you select it by clicking it and it sends the chars to the app
20110922 20:58:42< softcoder> uses something called IME
20110922 20:58:45< timotei> wow. :O
20110922 20:58:58< softcoder> i take it no-one here has such experience
20110922 20:59:11< timotei> softcoder: so there's no way to not mutilate yourself  with all those clicks? ;-/
20110922 20:59:20< softcoder> i see lots of experiemental stuff aroundf the web related to SDL but nothing real
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20110922 21:00:07< softcoder> it all seems to work under Linux but under windows I'm thinking its maybe not implemented in SDL (IME)
20110922 21:00:26< softcoder> but somewhere ithoguht someone posted on the web that wesnoth supports entry in other languages
20110922 21:01:07< loonycyborg> Maybe he used different input method or windows version..
20110922 21:01:45< softcoder> who?
20110922 21:01:56< loonycyborg> He who posted
20110922 21:02:51< loonycyborg> Anyway, at least entering text in russian works, so other encodings aren't problem by themselves.
20110922 21:03:26< softcoder> entering russian in Windows works?
20110922 21:03:33< loonycyborg> Yes.
20110922 21:04:00< softcoder> I guess is hsould try a more simple example like that
20110922 21:04:18< loonycyborg> Also, the place where you enter may matter.
20110922 21:04:40< loonycyborg> Currently some text boxes are from gui1 and some are from gui2
20110922 21:05:03< softcoder> i have no idea what gui1 and 2 are
20110922 21:05:39< loonycyborg> Those are names for wesnoth's internal gui subsystems
20110922 21:07:01< loonycyborg> That is currently gui subsystem is being redone, gui1 is the old one, gui2 is the new one.
20110922 21:07:52< anonymissimus> Soliton: you are one of the most experienced coders here afaik; did you take a look at some of thonsew's revisions ?
20110922 21:08:41< softcoder> nope, did no looking yet first asking
20110922 21:08:52< softcoder> I just tested and Russian input works laos in megaglest
20110922 21:09:03< softcoder> but not Chinese or Japanese
20110922 21:09:24< Soliton> anonymissimus: i just came back from a 4 day trip. i've skimmed a few before. i'm reading the backlog atm.
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20110922 21:19:12< mordante> servus
20110922 21:21:44< softcoder> wesnoth uses sdl 1.2 and not 1.3 right?
20110922 21:22:51< mordante> yes
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20110922 21:23:03< mordante> and doesn't compile with 1.3 either
20110922 21:23:15< softcoder> then unless it uses some SDL addon or patch i dont thiunk chiense or jap input would work
20110922 21:23:28< softcoder> i played with 1.3 yesterday
20110922 21:23:47< softcoder> not too much to port but 1.3 says they don't support static linking unless its a commercial license
20110922 21:24:00< softcoder> and we currently static link sdl into our open source game
20110922 21:24:29< mordante> why do you link statically?
20110922 21:24:42< elias> softcoder: didn't the license change?
20110922 21:24:43< softcoder> avoid dll hell
20110922 21:24:50< elias> i.e. 1.3 has no more commercial license
20110922 21:24:56< softcoder> 1.3 stated as i posted above
20110922 21:25:01< softcoder> not sure it it changed
20110922 21:25:05< elias> i think that's outdated
20110922 21:25:14< elias> they changed it a few months ago to be all free
20110922 21:25:17< softcoder> i know that galaxy works has stopped to run
20110922 21:25:23< softcoder> ahh ok
20110922 21:25:33< mordante> IIRC they changed their licence policy a few times
20110922 21:25:33< softcoder> i tried compiling 1.3 static and it was a mess
20110922 21:25:44< elias> yes, maybe they changed it back, so better double check
20110922 21:25:46< mordante> oh galaxy stopped, didn't know that
20110922 21:25:49< softcoder> 3 hours spent on it yesterday
20110922 21:25:58< elias> but at least at some point it was free (not even LGPL, but MIT or BSD or something)
20110922 21:25:59< softcoder> http://slouken.blogspot.com/
20110922 21:26:07< mordante> do you distribute on Windows, regarding the dll hell?
20110922 21:26:13< softcoder> yes
20110922 21:26:30< softcoder> on windows i have jsut a few dll's (most stuff static compiled into the exe)
20110922 21:26:44< Rhonda> AI0867: I got the hilight because of ~rhonda in the URL. :P
20110922 21:26:48< mordante> what I usually do on Windows is use dll's but dump them all in the same directory as the exe
20110922 21:26:48< softcoder> we are on the free game alliance like you :)
20110922 21:27:00< Rhonda> AI0867: And no, it is especially built the way to be installable side-by-side with 1.8
20110922 21:27:28< elias> softcoder: http://www.sdltutorials.com/sdl-1-3-licensing-terms
20110922 21:27:44< elias> found that in google, apparently that forum post was removed in the meantime...
20110922 21:28:15< softcoder> ok so i read out dated info on the galaxy page
20110922 21:28:28< elias> ah, it wasn't, i just had clicked wrong: http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=7148
20110922 21:29:26< softcoder> SDL 1.3 also introduces a new licensing option, whereby one can obtain a commercial license to allow closed-source static linking.[
20110922 21:29:31< softcoder> this is still on wikipedia
20110922 21:29:40< softcoder> but i beleive your post supercedes
20110922 21:30:07< softcoder> of course this is closed source so doesn't apply anyways to us
20110922 21:30:53< softcoder> looks like 1.3 supports IME etc, but 1.2 not
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20110922 21:34:05< mordante> "a commercial license to allow closed-source static linking"
20110922 21:34:26< mordante> that doesn't mean you can only link statically when you obtain a closed-source licence
20110922 21:35:01< loonycyborg> And glest is closed-source?
20110922 21:35:28< mordante> I *think* it's meant to allow static linking commercially when you fork money else you need to open source your code when linking statically
20110922 21:37:31< mordante> softcoder, have a look at the COPYING file in the SDL HG repo
20110922 21:38:34< softcoder> ok
20110922 21:38:48< mordante> it's very permissive now
20110922 21:39:04< softcoder> bottom line for 1.3 is that it seemed impossible to static link into our proj
20110922 21:39:11< softcoder> of which 1.2 works flawlessly
20110922 21:39:32< softcoder> unresolbed external for chkstk
20110922 21:39:33< loonycyborg> softcoder: What is the glest/megaglest's license?
20110922 21:39:38< mordante> and can you link dynamically in your project?
20110922 21:39:38< softcoder> gpl3
20110922 21:39:45 * Espreon has experience with Japanese input methods.
20110922 21:39:58< loonycyborg> That how can statical linking be a problem?
20110922 21:39:58< Espreon> But I haven't tried to use one with Wesnoth on Windows.
20110922 21:40:03< softcoder> yes i could but it would mean re-doing a bunch of other dll's to also be dynamic
20110922 21:40:05< loonycyborg> sdl itself is LGPL
20110922 21:40:21< loonycyborg> s/That/Then
20110922 21:40:30< softcoder> megaglest.org is where our proj is
20110922 21:41:01< softcoder> so did anyone validate jap or chinese inpout works under windows in wesnoth?
20110922 21:41:31< softcoder> also i really don't wanna move to 1.3 until its released
20110922 21:41:48< softcoder> especially because we have many linux distros including mg in their repos
20110922 21:42:10< Espreon> I could try it when I get home. Sadly, I don't think I ever tried to use a Japanese input method with Wesnoth on Windows.
20110922 21:42:11< softcoder> deps are the killer of a good app
20110922 21:42:18< mordante> jup
20110922 21:42:42< mordante> that's why I also didn't look too long at supporting SDL 1.3 for Wesnoth
20110922 21:42:55< softcoder> to port to 1.3 was easy for me
20110922 21:43:16< mordante> I still have a local branch but there were some larger changes to be made
20110922 21:43:17< softcoder> just the fact that the static link was such a headache and also that 1.3 on linux would be a nightmare
20110922 21:43:26< mordante> and some ports need to be rewritten :-(
20110922 21:43:32< Espreon> And sadly, I have to go.
20110922 21:43:37< softcoder> cya
20110922 21:43:39< mordante> bye Espreon 
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20110922 21:55:34< Espreon> ... And back.... for now.
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20110922 21:56:23< shadowmaster> thonsew: IRC is not really designed for info-dumps like yours earlier. This kind of things should really be discussed in the mailing list to make it easier for everyone to read.
20110922 21:58:52< shadowmaster> your answer to question 5 pretty much implies that we can have even more bug cases that will not be in mainline campaigns; when this happens it usually takes ridiculously long for us to find out since not all UMC authors understand the principles of bug reporting or can tell apart a bug in their code from a bug in the game engne. 
20110922 22:11:21< mordante> I'm off night
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20110922 22:26:20 * anonymissimus subscribes to shadowmaster comment
20110922 22:27:54< anonymissimus> actually, he should have foreseen the bugs before causing them
20110922 22:28:42< anonymissimus> thats what I try, and then I usually see that what I plan will cause to many problems so I can't do it
20110922 22:29:04< Soliton> the lua changes have been reverted, yes?
20110922 22:29:26< anonymissimus> yes I reverted them now...
20110922 22:29:32< AI0867> anonymissimus: I once did a change like that, but I made sure all breakage would fail to compile, so I could fix everything before I committed it
20110922 22:29:51< anonymissimus> most of it
20110922 22:31:36< Soliton> ok. that means trunk is in a fairly good shape now?
20110922 22:32:01< anonymissimus> way no
20110922 22:32:22< anonymissimus> it is in its worst shape since 2+ years
20110922 22:32:22< Soliton> still a lot ot t_token fallout left?
20110922 22:32:32< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: you don't know anything about the game events controller? https://gna.org/bugs/?18713
20110922 22:33:06< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: I'm afraid I dont, no
20110922 22:33:36< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: I would be very helful to there whether "it did still work in version xy"
20110922 22:33:44< anonymissimus> to know that I mean
20110922 22:34:11< shadowmaster> I don't really feel like checking out previous versions other than 1.8 to check, but ok.
20110922 22:34:17< anonymissimus> or did it never work ? it may as well be seen as a FR
20110922 22:35:00< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: that does not mean i will ever look at it! :P
20110922 22:35:22< shadowmaster> I don't think that kind of things count as feature request; there's an advertised feature that just doesn't work as it should in some border cases
20110922 22:37:01< Soliton> anonymissimus: i agree about the issue of (unrelated) formatting changes in commits, btw. we should definitely put something about that in our coding standards.
20110922 22:37:36< anonymissimus> :)
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20110922 22:37:43< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: but yeah, 1.8.6 is also affected, so this isn't a thonsew bug for a change
20110922 22:38:15< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: do you have a sensible usecase for it ?
20110922 22:38:37< shadowmaster> kind of
20110922 22:38:39< anonymissimus> I mean, why would you need to create the event if you fire it immediately afetrwards ?
20110922 22:39:29< shadowmaster> it was part of the implementation of a timed respawner
20110922 22:39:33< Soliton> if you want to fire it again later?
20110922 22:40:47< shadowmaster> the spawning logic is inside a custom event handler that is fired initially on prestart and repeated by "turn <xyz>" event handlers created by a main "die" event handler
20110922 22:41:01< anonymissimus> well ok it makes sense, or there should certainly be a not in teh wiki in case it's a "won't fix"
20110922 22:41:18< shadowmaster> I figured out that the solution is using the event name list syntax, though
20110922 22:41:25< shadowmaster> "solution", anyway
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20110922 23:06:24< Espreon> softcoder: No, it doesn't work.
20110922 23:06:45< softcoder> ahh ok thx
20110922 23:07:14< softcoder> I beleive there was work in SDL in GSOC but nothing exists in 1.2 (perhaps 1.3 may help but thats a whole other story)
20110922 23:07:18< Espreon> No prob.
20110922 23:07:41< softcoder> but it should work in nix
20110922 23:07:46< softcoder> it does for me
20110922 23:07:49< Espreon> Well, yeah.
20110922 23:07:51< Espreon> Of course.
20110922 23:08:00< shadowmaster> meh, my campaign still doesn't work with trunk HEAD
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20110922 23:45:08< shadowmaster> http://freegamer.blogspot.com/2011/09/0ad-alpha-7-geronium-and-more.html
20110922 23:45:22< shadowmaster> "It has the potential for mainstream appeal that is missing from a Battle for Wesnoth" wait, what
20110922 23:46:25< anonymissimus> there seems to be an urge of using typedefs in order to speed up writing code; I find this makes code much less readable due to forcing lookup of the tons typedefs
20110922 23:46:29< enchilado> "a" Battle for Wesnoth?
20110922 23:46:38< enchilado> Anyway, they're completely different games
20110922 23:48:51< nihathrael> battle of wesnoth is not 3D and is not quick massaker action -> mainstream appeal missing
20110922 23:49:01< shadowmaster> yeah
20110922 23:49:20< shadowmaster> quickly, let's adopt a 3D boardgame engine and build Wesnoth 3D
20110922 23:49:30< enchilado> They may be right, BUT... why mention Wesnoth at all?
20110922 23:49:45< AI0867> and you make your moves by QUICKLY SHOOTING THE RIGHT PIECE
20110922 23:50:03< nihathrael> because it is the only other big mentionable OS war game probably
20110922 23:50:06< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: aren't you a MSVC user? I believe typedefs in it are resoved by hovering
20110922 23:50:06< enchilado> Anyway, I love pixel art and TBS so I'll always prefer Wesnoth :P
20110922 23:50:41< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: thats right; still i prefer long forms
20110922 23:50:45< Gambit> enchilado: For the google searchers
20110922 23:50:50< enchilado> mhm, the terrain graphics are great too actually and they're not pixel art. But yeah, it's much easier to make nice 2D graphics than nice 3D graphics
20110922 23:50:56< Gambit> "why mention Wesnoth at all?"
20110922 23:51:00< enchilado> :P
20110922 23:51:14< anonymissimus> on Linux there's hovering I guess
20110922 23:51:17< Gambit> They're leeching off of Wesnoth's name recognition :P
20110922 23:51:23< anonymissimus> no hovering
20110922 23:51:31< Espreon> How dare they.
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20110922 23:51:36< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: yeah, Linux is not an IDE!
20110922 23:51:47< nihathrael> Gambit: you might have a pretty good point there
20110922 23:51:48< shadowmaster> why should Linux know about typedefs anyway?
20110922 23:52:11< loonycyborg> I find RTS games to be PITA
20110922 23:52:11< Gambit> And now it's time to find out if they have forums and an IRC channel on freenode
20110922 23:52:47< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: anyway, you are wrong. KDevelop shows me typedefs on hover.
20110922 23:53:01< anonymissimus> ok, good then
20110922 23:53:17< shadowmaster> but KDevelop is not Linux!
20110922 23:53:36< anonymissimus> we talked about kdevelop however, that is didnt work at all for me etc
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20110922 23:53:52< shadowmaster> MSVC isn't Windows either, for that matter
20110922 23:53:55< loonycyborg> And most strategy games seem to be RTS lately :P
20110922 23:54:20< loonycyborg> FOSS has no chance to push by them all.
20110922 23:59:21< Aeth> Who gives a damn about mainstream and what most people think?
20110922 23:59:23< Aeth> Most people are morons.
20110922 23:59:27< Aeth> Impatient morons.
--- Log closed Fri Sep 23 00:00:25 2011