--- Log opened Fri Sep 23 00:00:25 2011
20110923 00:00:28< Aeth> Make something good, and convince a few people to wise up. Don't make something down to the average person's level.
20110923 00:00:29< shadowmaster> indeed
20110923 00:00:43< Aeth> I didn't even know I liked hex-based TBS games until I played Wesnoth. Now I find RTS games annoying.
20110923 00:00:47< Aeth> And without strategy.
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20110923 00:03:15< CIA-7> thonsew * r51257 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Fix for bug #18705 Unit WML is shown out of alphabetical order. Menu and text based iteration ranges of cfg objects are now sorted in alphabetical order, before being displayed.
20110923 00:03:21< CIA-7> thonsew * r51258 /trunk/src/ (variable.cpp variable.hpp): 
20110923 00:03:22< CIA-7> Fixed variable_info to return 0 for non existent containers. See bug #18701
20110923 00:03:22< CIA-7> Added hooks but no functionality for removing WML warnings are non-existent variables when doing conditional checks.
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20110923 00:04:00< Espreon> thonsew: Hello, hello.
20110923 00:04:09< thonsew> Hello everyone.  I've read the comments and I thinking.
20110923 00:04:35< Espreon> Yeah?
20110923 00:05:05< thonsew> BTW there were meant to be and will be no external changes other than the speedup.
20110923 00:07:12< Espreon> anonymissimus: ^
20110923 00:07:14< AI0867> so, then why all the tonumber and tostring stuff in the lua?
20110923 00:09:13< thonsew> They can be removed.  That was me figuring out lua.  Until 2 days ago I had never read the lua manual.  Also as I tried to explain earlier if lua if used to do fast operations then the mismatch between lua and C++ might be a problem and I worked out how feasible it was to create a userdata object that would be a transparent string replacement to all lua users.
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20110923 00:10:47< anonymissimus> thonsew: why did you commit them then hm ?
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20110923 00:11:36< thonsew> When I commited them I thought they were the quickest way to fix most of the  lua problems, so that everyone could do development, while I sorted out the details.
20110923 00:11:39< anonymissimus> your reason in the first place was to "speed up lua-intensive scenarios with ai loops"
20110923 00:11:44< anonymissimus> there are none
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20110923 00:12:04< anonymissimus> the speedup is your only reason for all the token changes
20110923 00:12:27< anonymissimus> now look at how you pollute the code base with your revisions, that is not worht the trouble
20110923 00:13:01< anonymissimus> yeah you though something; I do not trust you that you know what you are doing
20110923 00:13:11< thonsew> My reason was to speed up wesnoth, not lua.  The cleverness of the AI is currently limited by the number of positions that it can evaluate in a given chunk of time.  Freeing up time will allow other more clever developers to make the AI smarter.
20110923 00:14:14< anonymissimus> "Until 2 days ago I had never read the lua manua"!
20110923 00:14:19< anonymissimus> i canr believe it
20110923 00:14:39< anonymissimus> but you think you can modify the lua interface then
20110923 00:15:19< anonymissimus> sry, revert the while thing till the start of the token stuff I say
20110923 00:15:54< anonymissimus> then you can first work on fixing all your other bugs supposedly caused by your older fixes, there are 2 related to tod lighting
20110923 00:16:26< Espreon> ...
20110923 00:17:40< Static> I had a bug occur to me for Under the Burning Suns campaign. This a good place to post it?
20110923 00:17:48< Espreon> Of course.
20110923 00:18:00< Espreon> I am the UtBS Tyrant after all.
20110923 00:18:33< Static> In the level where the river rises, If one of the undead kills the last human, the undead talks XD
20110923 00:18:54< Static> I think I have a replay
20110923 00:18:58< Espreon> OK
20110923 00:19:10< Espreon> I'll take a look after you give me the replay.
20110923 00:20:24< Static> one sec, I need to find it...
20110923 00:20:47< anonymissimus> thonsew: your last approach was not too bad btw, making the token stuff optionally available, so if it's actually a speedup for scenarios with loops and string comparisons etc one may use it
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20110923 00:21:09< anonymissimus> but it should certainly go into an extra section in the wiki if any
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20110923 00:23:59< thonsew> First someone should profile a lua intensive scenario.  If the lua<-->C++ interface is only consuming 1% then maybe not.
20110923 00:26:14< anonymissimus> for instance; what was your reason for changing wesnoth.get_units(nil) to return an error ?
20110923 00:26:27< anonymissimus> as opposed to "all units"
20110923 00:27:16< anonymissimus> thonsew: you committed this change in r51240 
20110923 00:27:53< anonymissimus> this can obviously break any lua code out there
20110923 00:28:10< anonymissimus> and you included it in a revisions completely unrelated to it
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20110923 00:29:54< thonsew> What line are looking at?
20110923 00:31:07< Static> http://www.mediafire.com/?d5k0fhp5h0htche
20110923 00:31:23< Static> happens around turn 17
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20110923 00:33:12< anonymissimus> 419
20110923 00:33:19< anonymissimus> in lua.cpp
20110923 00:33:19< Static> Also during the last scenario, you can have units stuck in the walls
20110923 00:33:31< anonymissimus> your revisions are full of such things
20110923 00:34:39< anonymissimus> if you don't have a reason for changing some code then don't do it
20110923 00:34:41< Espreon> Static: Which version is this from?
20110923 00:34:59< Static> 1.8.5
20110923 00:35:11< anonymissimus> especially not if it's silene's code
20110923 00:35:31< Espreon> Static: OK, please allow five to seven business days.
20110923 00:35:47< AI0867> Espreon: XD
20110923 00:36:05< Static> You should leave it in as an easter egg with some sort of extra text :P
20110923 00:36:09< Espreon> Static: Thanks for telling me.
20110923 00:36:14< Espreon> ... Mmmmmmmmmmmaybe.
20110923 00:36:19< Static> no problem
20110923 00:39:02< Static> I also found that loading a save in the Talking with Trolls scenario causes many of the units to disappear
20110923 00:39:22< Espreon> All right.
20110923 00:39:36< Static> I think this happens in other scenarios too
20110923 00:39:49< Espreon> Hmmmm...
20110923 00:40:09< Static> Probably due to "duplicate" units?
20110923 00:40:54< Espreon> God knows.
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20110923 00:42:37< thonsew> anonymissimus, which file?  I've looked at all the diffs in that r51240 and I don't see a change near line 419 as you are mentioning.
20110923 00:42:45< AI0867> thonsew: lua.cpp
20110923 00:42:49< AI0867> as he said
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20110923 00:43:25< AI0867> my diff shows a fragment starting at 416/503
20110923 00:44:17< thonsew> Sorry I was looking at the line numbers in the new file.
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20110923 00:47:46< thonsew> So when tovconfig is called with a table it parses a vconfig and returns true, when it is passed userdata it does the cast and also returns true however originally, when passed nothing or garbage it also returned true, even though it failed to parse a vconfig.  I thought that was wrong.
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20110923 00:48:55< AI0867> nope, that was part of the API
20110923 00:49:09< AI0867> but the main point here is to not make those changes in a completely unrelated commit
20110923 00:50:57< anonymissimus> ok then if you thought it but didnt test it nor had any other evidence why did you change it ?
20110923 00:52:47< thonsew> At the time it probably fixed one of the lua bugs, by returning false when it had nothing to parse.
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20110923 00:54:45< anonymissimus> thonsew: imagine you could be working on a branch without the time pressure of fixing critical bugs ;)
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20110923 00:56:07< anonymissimus> since as I said, we other devs do not want to run into your problems all the time, preventing us from what we want to do originally
20110923 00:56:33< thonsew> Like I said earlier, next time that is what I'll do.
20110923 00:57:54< anonymissimus> but it will continue this way, there will come more and more bug reports
20110923 00:58:15< Gambit> "Good"
20110923 00:58:49< shadowmaster> Gambit: ?
20110923 00:58:53< Gambit> anonymissimus: Consider what you're asking for a moment.
20110923 00:59:02< Gambit> He made these ground breaking changes that improve the speed.
20110923 00:59:06< Gambit> And there happened to be bugs.
20110923 00:59:09< Gambit> You found the bugs.
20110923 00:59:11< Gambit> You let him know.
20110923 00:59:13< Gambit> He fixes them.
20110923 00:59:14< Gambit> Awesome.
20110923 00:59:20< Gambit> Now imagine he went in a branch.
20110923 00:59:29< Gambit> Start to finish in a branch without anyone else every seeing it.
20110923 00:59:32< Gambit> Then it gets merged in.
20110923 00:59:38< Gambit> And there's millions of impossible to find bugs.
20110923 00:59:52< Gambit> Instead of taking the bugs on right away as they get introduced.
20110923 01:00:31< Gambit> Threatening him with "more and more bug reports" is nearly as stupid as threatening to leave the project if he doesn't make 100% perfect code from now on.
20110923 01:01:20< Gambit> s/every seeing/ever seeing/
20110923 01:01:40< Static> Aren't bug reports an ambiguously good thing?
20110923 01:03:41< shadowmaster> if too many bug reports appear over a very short period of time while Wesnoth's userbase hasn't significantly grown during that same period, odds are something is wrong
20110923 01:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 203 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20110923 01:04:49< shadowmaster> now, one of my campaign's scenarios clearly doesn't work in HEAD while it does work in version 1.9.9 and 1.9.8. It's plain obvious to me that there's a problem.
20110923 01:06:37< shadowmaster> I could either file a bug report explaining how to reproduce the problem by playing that scenario of my campaign or hope someone else does it, since I can't clearly see the isolated issue and as a content author with an incomplete campaign in progress I have better things to do than use the bug tracker
20110923 01:07:13< shadowmaster> (meanwhile, I stick with 1.9.9; this is precisely what I'm doing in reality)
20110923 01:07:36< shadowmaster> (of course, I have faith that the problems will go away before 1.9.10)
20110923 01:09:34< AI0867> (possibly because the current state will fail Ivanovic's sanity checks)
20110923 01:11:46< shadowmaster> AI0867: it passes, right now, since the only thing he does is playing the first scenario of every campaign
20110923 01:12:22< shadowmaster> mainline campaign
20110923 01:12:41 * anonymissimus wonders about what the player and campaign author community will post in teh forum and bug tracker *hehe*
20110923 01:13:48< AI0867> shadowmaster: the obvious 'solution' is to make HttT01 trigger every known bug
20110923 01:14:24< Static> or have a debug campaign
20110923 01:14:46< thonsew> I think a solution is to work on a more complete set of unit tests.  I contributed some for the string_interpolation functions.
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20110923 01:17:23< AI0867> with an interactive game, unit tests can only do so much
20110923 01:17:32< AI0867> and currently, they don't compile under g++-4.4
20110923 01:18:29< thonsew> That is true, but they can provide complete coverage of interfaces and error conditions, which would be a start.  I tried in the string interpolation ones to at least provide that level of completeness.
20110923 01:18:36< AI0867> at FOSDEM, we talked about making the AI so scriptable it could play a debug campaign by itself, but we're not even close to that yet
20110923 01:19:40< thonsew> You were including button clicking as well?  That is ambitious.
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20110923 01:20:52< AI0867> no, but I was including WML
20110923 01:23:14< thonsew> That covers play testing, but not content creation.  I think that unit tests could test for static things like the syntactic interfaces that wesnoth uses to relate to the world.
20110923 01:23:55< Static> yes?
20110923 01:24:04< Static> oh, lol
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20110923 01:25:05< thonsew> Anyway, I have to go.  Bye.
20110923 01:25:41< anonymissimus> thonsew: please be here in irc while coding btw
20110923 01:26:24< thonsew> I'll try.  Its not always possible.
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20110923 01:28:37< anonymissimus> thanks for your comments shadowmaster 
20110923 01:29:43< anonymissimus> sticking with 1.9.9 or not working is what addon author do atm afaik
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20110923 01:56:37< anonymissimus> btw Gambit - the fact that shadowmaster and many other wml devs probably also stick with the last stable revision renders your argument from above rather useless
20110923 01:57:14< anonymissimus> since it means bugs aren't reported though should be...
20110923 01:58:36< Gambit> So you're not finding any bugs?
20110923 01:58:45< Gambit> Excellent! I guess everything is settled and perfect. ^_^
20110923 02:02:35< anonymissimus> :(
20110923 02:08:04< shadowmaster> shikadibot: seen alarantalara
20110923 02:08:04< shikadibot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick Alarantalara last spoke 21h 47m ago.  21h 31m ago they were seen quitting on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20110923 02:09:16< Gambit> That we may not find 100% of the bugs doesn't invalidate the argument that finding some bugs is better than finding no bugs.
20110923 02:09:44< shadowmaster> Alarantalara: ah, never mind, I was going to bother you about a castle-stonewall transition that wasn't working for me in 1.9.9, but naturaly it's fixed in trunk :)
20110923 02:11:31< shadowmaster> Alarantalara: although at the center of this image you will find a small transition glitch that still affects HEAD: http://shadowm.ai0867.net/stone-wall-glitch.png (look for a black spot; you may need to adjust your monitor gamma if you can't see it at first glance)
20110923 02:14:25< enchilado> There's another black spot on the right side of that hexagonal cave
20110923 02:14:54< shadowmaster> I thought that was a pillar's shadow
20110923 02:15:23< shadowmaster> it repeats itself along the rightmost edge on the grassland background
20110923 02:16:00< anonymissimus> Gambit: what is an argument however that none of the bugs reported since the token stuff ha been made by you xD
20110923 02:16:31< anonymissimus> of the bug reports of course
20110923 02:16:34< enchilado> It's not the pillar's shadow, though -look at the shape; the grass and cave should overlap onto the wall's hexagon, but they don't
20110923 02:17:26< enchilado> Where the pillar meets the South-West end of the castle is a bit glitched, too :S
20110923 02:17:32< Static> Would the wesnoth website benefit from a review/comment script?
20110923 02:18:16< shadowmaster> btw, kudos to whoever made [remove_shroud] accept SLFs, that's awesome
20110923 02:18:44< shadowmaster> oh wait
20110923 02:18:47< anonymissimus> Gambit: actually you made a report, but it may be unrelated to tokens, sry
20110923 02:18:52< shadowmaster> that was me, wasn't it?
20110923 02:19:15< shadowmaster> yep, r32173
20110923 02:19:36 * shadowmaster gives his past, less-lazy self a cookie
20110923 02:23:36< Gambit> Jesus R. Morelle
20110923 02:23:37< Gambit> M.D.
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20110923 02:26:17< shadowmaster> uh, preload events not working in 1.9.9? :/
20110923 02:26:36< shadowmaster> my custom WML tag becomes invalid affter reloading from a saved game
20110923 02:28:35< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: or did the mechanism to introduce custom WML tags in specific scenarios change?
20110923 02:28:54< Gambit> That
20110923 02:30:09< shadowmaster> Gambit: okay, so what's it now?
20110923 02:30:41< Gambit> I dunno. I don't use lua.
20110923 02:31:17< shadowmaster> you said "that", so that implies you know more
20110923 02:31:36< Gambit> Nope. I just knew that.
20110923 02:31:41< shadowmaster> then again, the wiki doesn't state that it has changed at all
20110923 02:31:47< Gambit> "did the mechanism to introduce custom WML tags in specific scenarios change?" <= this
20110923 02:31:58< shadowmaster> how did you come to find that out then?
20110923 02:32:42< Gambit> Because anonymissimus was speaking about backwards compatibility earlier and how all custom WML tags would need to be rewritten.
20110923 02:32:59< shadowmaster> yeah, but that was about post-1.9.9 changes
20110923 02:33:04< shadowmaster> (I believe)
20110923 02:33:40< shadowmaster> my *global* WML tags appear to be working fine either way, it's just the scenario-local ones that aren't working
20110923 02:35:37< shadowmaster> in other words, this doesn't work: http://pastebin.com/rmAnGuhM
20110923 02:37:02< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: it's one of the reported bugs
20110923 02:37:14< anonymissimus> I'm investigating it atm actually
20110923 02:39:08< shadowmaster> is it #18695?
20110923 02:39:41< anonymissimus> y
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20110923 02:45:09< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: do you mind if I post a comment with my test case?
20110923 02:45:20< anonymissimus> go ahead
20110923 02:45:48< anonymissimus> (why would I mind ?)
20110923 02:46:47< shadowmaster> done
20110923 02:49:08< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: more interesting than the implementation is the campaign/scenario where it appears
20110923 02:51:38< shadowmaster> IME developers never bother to check out elaborate test cases like that
20110923 02:52:40< anonymissimus> i do, possibly
20110923 02:53:50< shadowmaster> besides, I can't really keep the test case around for long since I may want to get my campaign into a releasable state again. In fact, I'm just about to promote that local WML tag to the "global namespace" to work around the bug.
20110923 02:55:42< anonymissimus> i created a testcase which diesnt work, surprisingly
20110923 03:00:58< shadowmaster> I *could* post instructions to check out AtS at r10639 and bore random developers a bit with some gameplay
20110923 03:07:34< anonymissimus> well, atm i fail to reproduce it no matter what...
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20110923 03:10:16< anonymissimus> gn8
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20110923 03:15:03< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: there you go
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20110923 03:33:59< jabagawee> hey guys, trying to start my first contrib to wesnoth for a class at uni, was wondering what the exact process is for processing open patches not assigned to anyone?
20110923 03:35:37< Gambit> Open bugs you mean?
20110923 03:37:22< jabagawee> er, no, open patch
20110923 03:37:29< jabagawee> specifically, i'm looking at https://gna.org/patch/?2961
20110923 03:38:46< Gambit> Well a developer would read over the patch, check it, and then apply it if they wanted.
20110923 03:39:22< jabagawee> i see
20110923 03:39:37< jabagawee> so if i don't have access to the svn repo (which i obv don't), i needn't worry about it?
20110923 03:40:45< Gambit> Uh. Right I guess.
20110923 03:40:58< Gambit> If you were looking to contribute you would make and submit patches.
20110923 03:42:13< jabagawee> alright, i'm trying to see where i can start, but no matter what i'm just afraid of the scope of the project
20110923 03:42:29< jabagawee> i'm reading bugs and trying to see which ones i might be able to handle
20110923 03:42:54< Gambit> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding
20110923 03:42:58< Gambit> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FutureWML
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20110923 03:44:51< jabagawee> haha thanks
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20110923 03:45:17< Gambit> Those lists may not be entirely up-to-date
20110923 03:45:31< jabagawee> yeah, i've realized that last week
20110923 03:45:36< jabagawee> but it's still something
20110923 04:19:30< AI0867> Gambit: the build is perfect if no bugs are reported right? Let's just close down the bug tracker on gna then.
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20110923 04:26:44< Gambit> Yes I didn't state it very well at first.
20110923 04:26:57< Gambit> [20:09:15] <Gambit> That we may not find 100% of the bugs doesn't invalidate the argument that finding some bugs is better than finding no bugs.
20110923 04:27:01< Gambit> ^that was better
20110923 04:27:33< Gambit> Though I did say "finding", not "reporting"
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20110923 06:01:11< shadowmaster> Alarantalara, AI0867 (since you worked on that terrain at some point I think), whoever: transitions to the off-map terrain in MP maps like Elensefar Courtyard look awful in 1.9.9
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20110923 06:24:57< shadowmaster> mordante: this is an example of what you shouldn't do in a bug tracker: https://gna.org/bugs/?10969 
20110923 06:25:21< shadowmaster> I can't find the relevant discussion in the log of #wesnoth-dev for 2008-02-02
20110923 06:25:45< shadowmaster> therefore, I'm forced to ask you now: why?
20110923 06:27:37< shadowmaster> I do hope it isn't a purely technical issue, because I just fixed it in my tree.
20110923 06:28:16< shadowmaster> blah http://pastebin.com/yWibAKrb
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20110923 07:55:59< zookeeper> Espreon, the disappearing trolls should be fixed in trunk, that was due to duplicate id's.
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20110923 07:57:15< Static> I knew it had something to do with identical units
20110923 08:03:16< zookeeper> yeah, there were quite a few cases of that in UtBS
20110923 08:03:40< Static> I noticed
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20110923 08:50:27< cjhopman> Just took a look at some of these t_token changes..... :/
20110923 08:51:40< cjhopman> Kind of have to agree with anonymissimus
20110923 08:53:13< cjhopman> Also, why create a new interning framework when we already have one that we've been using for tstring for >1 year?
20110923 08:53:37< cjhopman> >2 years, actually
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20110923 10:13:57< Ivanovic> moin
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20110923 10:47:25< shadowmaster> updated the frontpage with the links to the Android market, sorry for the long delay
20110923 10:47:57< shadowmaster> not going to write a filthy announcement, though; that would be just ridiculous after all the time that's passed since the original release
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20110923 11:27:23< Rhonda> Ivanovic, do you know where you got Andagii.ttf from?
20110923 11:27:37< Rhonda> Is that also a Bitstream font?
20110923 11:28:48< Static> this: http://www.i18nguy.com/unicode/unicode-font.html
20110923 11:28:49< Static> ?
20110923 11:29:10< Rhonda> Seems so
20110923 11:30:46< Rhonda> thanks
20110923 11:30:56< Static> no prob
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20110923 15:01:00< Crab___> nephro: as I understand, the implementation was to make the dragon 'patrol around' to make it necessary for the player to move through the swamp, fighting with all other undead
20110923 15:02:00< Crab___> nephro: but, zookeeper's hit-and-run suggestion looks great, if you find a way to implement it. you'd probably want to make it a skirmisher as well, just to make it harder to trap
20110923 15:03:45< zookeeper> Crab___, that, or if it's feasible, make it avoid locations where it can be trapped
20110923 15:03:53< zookeeper> dunno how hard the latter is
20110923 15:03:56< Crab___> nephro: maybe, if we don't consider save-loaders, the idea would be either (1) attack a not-much-defended unit, run from the player if he's got too much units, or (2) try to get a leader kill if possible
20110923 15:04:14< Crab___> zookeeper: if that's just for one unit, it's feasible
20110923 15:04:34< Crab___> zookeeper: but it'll be easy for the player that way, I think
20110923 15:05:01< Crab___> zookeeper: also, we'd probably need to toss in some regeneration for the dragon, if we want to make hit&run really scare
20110923 15:05:07< zookeeper> maybe. the swamp ambushers tend to wreck your movement plans a bit.
20110923 15:05:28< Crab___> zookeeper: yes, but once you clear a part of area, they're not there anymore
20110923 15:05:42< Crab___> zookeeper: since, afair, they don't respawn
20110923 15:05:51< Crab___> (and respawning is bad for XP)
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20110923 15:06:46< zookeeper> yeah, but you'll never clear the entire map of them, and if the dragon is smart, it'll go hide behind some ambushers, causing you to bump into them if you go after it
20110923 15:07:13< zookeeper> sooner or later there's bound to be an opportunity for it to attack
20110923 15:07:22< Crab___> yes, hiding behind ambushers is interesting
20110923 15:07:44< Crab___> however, I think that the dragon is bound to be trapped after an attack move, not after a hide move
20110923 15:07:52< zookeeper> however, i guess it could be annoying if it's too smart. it could run you in circles around the map and never let you gang up on it.
20110923 15:08:12< Crab___> zookeeper: this can be solved with reducing the movement points, I suppose
20110923 15:08:18< zookeeper> yeah
20110923 15:08:19 * zookeeper checks
20110923 15:09:11< zookeeper> it has just 5 moves as it is, so that's probably low enough
20110923 15:09:21< Crab___> i.e. after an attack, if the attacked unit is still alive, he's next to one unit already - and all it takes is to move this unit to a side of the dragon, and put another unit to the different side
20110923 15:09:51< Crab___> but, your idea of annoying the player with hide-behind-ambusher is great
20110923 15:10:27< Crab___> it's just it, mostly, really possible only on 'retreat to hide' move
20110923 15:11:00< zookeeper> yep. of course in theory it could choose to attack so that the ambushers would prevent you from trapping it, but that sounds like it'd get pretty complicated to do... maybe.
20110923 15:12:59< zookeeper> but really, it doesn't matter how it works exactly, as long as the general behaviour is "hit and run" and it's not easily exploitable
20110923 15:13:35< Crab___> in theory, yes. in practice *draws some stuff on a piece of paper'. it would require the enemy to be quite next to the ambusher (1-2 hexes), in quite specific positions - i.e. for it to work we would need to increase the number of ambushers
20110923 15:13:59< Crab___> but we can try to see how it looks like
20110923 15:14:22< zookeeper> yeah, and we can't really increase them a lot without making the scenario a huge grindfest
20110923 15:14:29< Crab___> yes
20110923 15:14:46< Crab___> that's why I've thought about skirmish initially
20110923 15:15:03< Crab___> the dragon would be able to get away, but you'll get a turn of pounding it with all you've got nearby
20110923 15:15:54< zookeeper> from a gameplay POV it might work nicely, but it just doesn't seem to fit very well. none of the other dragons or drakes or fliers get skirmish, so i'd prefer to not give it to a flying pile of bones either :P
20110923 15:15:57< Crab___> if the dragon is tough/regenerates/not suicidal, it'll be a problem of cornering the dragon while keeping your units close and your leader protected
20110923 15:16:35< Crab___> maybe teleport, then ? from swamp to swamp
20110923 15:17:09< Crab___> fendrin: can we limit the [tunnel] to range, say, all swamps within X hexes ? 
20110923 15:17:43< Crab___> fendrin: or in some other way allow a single dragon to hop around freely, but not too far away?
20110923 15:17:58< zookeeper> a teleporting dragon sounds a bit excessive ;) and if you introduce a range, then it gets pretty complicated to convey to the player, we'd have to make up a completely new ability, and then there'd be the question of why it can only do so in swamps, etc. regeneration sounds more doable.
20110923 15:18:20< zookeeper> or, alternatively, drain.
20110923 15:18:31< zookeeper> oh. it already has drain.
20110923 15:18:57< zookeeper> i think that's good enough for regeneration purposes
20110923 15:19:00< Crab___> zookeeper: from the 'fit in' part, in a swamp, it's a submerging pile of bones - maybe, it can submerge underwater in one place and reappear in another
20110923 15:20:21< Crab___> I'm concerned about the cornering, because, once it's cornered, it's bound to be blasted out by the white mages quite fast
20110923 15:20:53< Crab___> but, I guess we need to implement various behaviors and just check it out, what's good and fun
20110923 15:22:10< zookeeper> it has 0% resistance to both holy and fire, so it's not that bad
20110923 15:22:20< zookeeper> it's vulnerable only to impact
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20110923 15:25:40< Crab___> well, it's not that vulnerable to melee attacks
20110923 15:26:09< zookeeper> and yes, i'd suggest starting with something simple, like attacking the weakest unit as long as doing so doesn't put it in range of more than 1-2 other player units.
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20110923 15:26:35< Crab___> yes, that makes sence
20110923 15:26:41< zookeeper> maybe it'd be good enough. if not, then more complicated rules can be added.
20110923 15:26:54< Crab___> should not be good enough, I think, but, we'll see.
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20110923 16:40:08< anonymissimus> cjhopman: you mean t_string is about what token is supposed to achieve, a speedup in string comparison (when comparing 2 t_strings, then) ?
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20110923 16:55:04< fendrin> Hi
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20110923 17:23:13< Sytyi> timotei: hi! Checkyour balance - My card was emptied the  day before yesterday from the ATM in Philippines :-(
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20110923 18:50:15< CIA-7> fendrin * r51259 /trunk/src/reports.cpp: Adds support for reporting about the selected unit.
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20110923 19:04:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 204 bugs, 331 feature requests, 18 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110923 19:58:59< anonymissimus> uh-oh the senior boss is here ;)
20110923 19:59:12< timotei> anonymissimus: senior boss?
20110923 19:59:17< anonymissimus> dave
20110923 19:59:17< timotei> Wasn't it everytime here? :P
20110923 19:59:22< anonymissimus> no
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20110923 20:12:33< Crendgrim> anonymissimus: what's up with Lua now? Was everything reverted, or changed, or is it still open?
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20110923 20:20:23< anonymissimus> Crendgrim: still open
20110923 20:20:39< Crendgrim> thanks
20110923 20:21:14< anonymissimus> Crendgrim: but anyway, I reverted some of tge most recent changes
20110923 20:21:46< anonymissimus> timotei: the command you gave me didnt work btw, i just thought it did
20110923 20:21:56< timotei> anonymissimus: ah.
20110923 20:22:13< timotei> so git revert on single file doesn't work?
20110923 20:23:37< anonymissimus> hm no; reverse-merging the changes of an allready dcommitted revision to a single file doesn't work
20110923 20:23:53< anonymissimus> or thats the command I seek
20110923 20:29:43< anonymissimus> Crendgrim: you are invited to use trunk and post your bug reports however
20110923 20:30:14< Soliton> getting the patch for that file and reverse applying it should work.
20110923 20:31:28< Crendgrim> anonymissimus: so it should work for now as it did before?
20110923 20:34:10-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110923 20:38:16< Soliton> anonymissimus: git diff rev^..rev src/myfile | patch -Rp1
20110923 20:38:56< Espreon> Rhonda: Note that our copy of Andagii was apparently modified.
20110923 20:39:10< shadowmaster> stupid gna.org and its untrusted certificates
20110923 20:39:12< Espreon> ... to enlarge the glyphs or something.
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20110923 20:43:14< CIA-7> fendrin * r51260 /trunk/data/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Adds a theme for widescreen resolutions.
20110923 20:43:59< fendrin> Espreon: Can you do the png magic on the new files?
20110923 20:44:02< fendrin> please
20110923 20:44:40< fendrin> hi noy
20110923 20:44:48< shadowmaster> that kind of thing is only required prior to a new release
20110923 20:45:01< noy> hello
20110923 20:46:11< Espreon> fendrin: shadowmaster is right. Besides, you're capable of doing it yourself.
20110923 20:48:14< anonymissimus> Crendgrim: nothing is guaranteed xD
20110923 20:48:26< anonymissimus> especially not now
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20110923 20:48:57< Crendgrim> alright, alright :)
20110923 20:50:50< CIA-7> espreon * r51261 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/ (07a_Dealing_with_Dwarves.cfg 07b_Talking_with_Trolls.cfg): Gave dwarf in troll guards in the seventh scenarios unique ids.
20110923 20:51:04< anonymissimus> Crendgrim: the engine is easily in its worst state since 2+ years as i said, so I would recommend to use 1.9.9 or so if you dont want to be hampered by bugs
20110923 20:51:20< Espreon> Whoops... I mistyped.
20110923 20:51:23< Espreon> Blargh.
20110923 20:53:01< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: two years seems reasonable enough; at a point in 2008 the AI engine stopped working for a while
20110923 20:55:24< zookeeper> Espreon, so it wasn't fixed yet? hmh, that's odd. i thought i had caught all of those.
20110923 20:56:01< Espreon> Apparently not.
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20110923 20:59:32< Espreon> ... and I can't see if the problem's actually fixed.
20110923 21:00:25< Espreon> Sadness.
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20110923 21:13:37< CIA-7> espreon * r51262 /trunk/data/core/images/themes/ (4 files): Ran umcpropfix.
20110923 21:20:33< CIA-7> espreon * r51263 /trunk/data/themes/widescreen.cfg: Ran umcpropfix.
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20110923 21:35:07< Espreon> fabi_: Perhaps the left sidebar should be used for stuff not already featured in the right sidebar.
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20110923 21:35:35< Espreon> Well, it really should.
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20110923 21:47:20< Rhonda> Espreon: Was it? There is a single commit of it. I really would hope that the changes got sent back …
20110923 21:49:51< Espreon> Well, then he obviously modified it before sending it. Also, I think the changes were only applicable to Wesnoth.
20110923 21:49:59< Espreon> Rhonda: Query Arc about it.
20110923 21:50:12< Espreon> He did the initial work on the Shavian transliteration.
20110923 21:50:55< Rhonda> *sigh*
20110923 21:51:44< Rhonda> If the changes are only applicable to Wesnoth, why not in a seperate font for that specific glyphs? Or are they modified, not added new ones for specific things_
20110923 21:52:10< Espreon> He just modified the Shavian glyphs.
20110923 21:52:12< Espreon> He didn't add anything.
20110923 21:53:38< fabi_> Espreon: Any suggestions?
20110923 21:53:59< Espreon> fabi_: Maybe resistance information.
20110923 21:54:37< Espreon> fabi_: Also, the theme's screwy in windowed mode, but fine in fullscreen mode.
20110923 21:54:54< fabi_> What is wrong in window mode?
20110923 21:55:21< Espreon> I'll make a cap.
20110923 21:56:53< Espreon> fabi_: http://imagebin.org/173764
20110923 21:56:54< Espreon> That.
20110923 21:58:00< fabi_> Oh, yes. I see.
20110923 22:02:58< anonymissimus> zookeeper: do you know whether wml used to treat empty attributes like ones with an empty string, that is, [tag]key= as [tag]key="" ?
20110923 22:03:41< anonymissimus> and this always, namely
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20110923 22:04:16< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: That's what it did, AFAIK. The only distinction was between missing attributes and empty attributes, left as homework for the client units like the game_events.cpp code
20110923 22:04:48< shadowmaster> (missing attributes could be considered empty when unchecked)
20110923 22:06:22< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: I am referring rather to the reprsentation of these in the config class
20110923 22:07:08< anonymissimus> thanks anyway
20110923 22:07:15< shadowmaster> empty t_strings
20110923 22:08:37< shadowmaster> missing attributes were also returned as empty t_strings when requested, though as I said above it was also possible to check through other path whether they were missing or not
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20110923 22:29:25< CIA-7> fendrin * r51264 /trunk/ (data/themes/widescreen.cfg src/reports.cpp): 
20110923 22:29:25< CIA-7> Fixed widescreen theme on low resolutions.
20110923 22:29:25< CIA-7> Added tod support on the left sidebar.
20110923 22:29:34< fabi_> Espreon: ^
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20110923 22:30:26< Alarantalara> shadowmaster: I'll add the terrain problems you mention to my list of things to do
20110923 22:31:04< Alarantalara> checking back, I'm happy to see that I didn't cause most of them
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20110923 22:35:40< shadowmaster> well, eleazar left a lot of stuff unfinished/unpolished
20110923 22:35:48< CIA-7> ivanovic * r51265 /trunk/po/ (4 files in 4 dirs): updated Indonesian translation
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20110923 22:40:24< Alarantalara> Those "shadows" are actually holes where no image at all is being drawn
20110923 22:42:34< Alarantalara> The pillars very carefully hid the issue, but they all got moved up with r45007
20110923 22:43:30-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20110923 22:43:55< Alarantalara> So I basically have two choices: revert that change and shift everything down again, or move the pillars in several images
20110923 22:44:23< Espreon> Alarantalara: Cave wall-lava... is bad.
20110923 22:44:26< Alarantalara> commit message says they "stuck too far south"
20110923 22:45:13< Espreon> Alarantalara: Do you want a cap?
20110923 22:45:35< Alarantalara> I've got a copy of Wesnoth open
20110923 22:45:43< Alarantalara> I'll just take a look in the editor
20110923 22:47:33< Alarantalara> I don't see anything beyond the existing discontinuity (though it applies even to the one cave wall I fixed)
20110923 22:48:26< Espreon> fabi_: Thanks.
20110923 22:48:41< Espreon> fabi_: You probably should remove the ToD element from the left sidebar, though.
20110923 22:48:52< Alarantalara> Or did you mean something other than the sharp black line
20110923 22:50:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20110923 22:50:48< Espreon> Alarantalara: This: http://imagebin.org/173773
20110923 22:51:27< fabi_> fabi_: hmmm
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20110923 22:51:31< Alarantalara> the rocks in the lava?
20110923 22:51:33< fabi_> Espreon: hmmm
20110923 22:51:40< Espreon> Alarantalara: Yeah.
20110923 22:52:00< Alarantalara> Espreon: okay, added to list
20110923 22:52:49< Espreon> Alarantalara: I think I'll add it to the tracker for giggles.
20110923 22:59:34< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51266 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/internal-generic.cfg: Simplify GENERIC_SINGLEHEX_PLFB. Macro is currently unused in mainline
20110923 23:00:09< fabi_> Espreon: Why should I remove the ToD element from the left sidebar?
20110923 23:01:22-!- Sirp [97c1dc1b@wesnoth/developer/dave] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110923 23:01:24< Espreon> Because we don't need another ToD element.
20110923 23:01:58-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110923 23:02:06< fabi_> The unit displayed left's location can have a different tod than the other one.
20110923 23:02:12< Espreon> Ah.
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20110923 23:15:44< Alarantalara> Are we still reporting token bugs to thonsew?
20110923 23:16:38< loonycyborg> yes afaik
20110923 23:17:02< Alarantalara> then I have a lovely one regarding string concatenation in macros
20110923 23:17:31< Alarantalara> to see the result, just start the Dead Water campaign. It's rather spectacular
20110923 23:22:15< Espreon> fabi_: Dialogue bands don't touch the right side of the screen with your theme.
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20110923 23:26:33< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: uh oh, that
20110923 23:26:39< anonymissimus> is a token bug ?
20110923 23:26:58< Alarantalara> yes
20110923 23:27:00< anonymissimus> Ivanovic will notice it on his check^^
20110923 23:27:02< Espreon> What exactly?
20110923 23:27:28< Ivanovic> Alarantalara: bugs.wesnoth.org
20110923 23:27:31< fabi_> Espreon: Thanks, I have noticed that but can't do anything against it right now.
20110923 23:27:32< Ivanovic> assign to thonsew
20110923 23:27:32< Alarantalara> concatenate "water", "-A01.png", (), ":100"
20110923 23:27:49< Alarantalara> the empty macro argument dies from concatenation erros
20110923 23:28:06< Alarantalara> it works fine if I put in somethign like ~NOP() instead
20110923 23:28:15< shadowmaster> WOW
20110923 23:28:39 * Espreon doesn't see anything
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20110923 23:32:30< shadowmaster> Espreon: http://shadowm.ai0867.net/groovy.png
20110923 23:32:52< Espreon> Holy shit!
20110923 23:33:00 * Espreon wonders why he doesn't get that
20110923 23:33:11< shadowmaster> you *must* be at r51266
20110923 23:34:19< anonymissimus> perhaps you need to have map animations turned off
20110923 23:34:26< shadowmaster> I have them turned on
20110923 23:34:40< anonymissimus> ok, then thats irrelevant
20110923 23:35:44< Espreon> Ah, now I see it.
20110923 23:35:58< Alarantalara> Ivanovic: I've posted a report https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18723. I wanted to check to make sure it wasn't already reported, thus the delay
20110923 23:38:18< Espreon> The darkness is swallowing my screen...
20110923 23:39:34< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: how do you conclude it's a token bug ?
20110923 23:39:53< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51267 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/internal-generic.cfg: Simplify ANIMATED_WATER_15 macro (aka remove references to adjacent tiles)
20110923 23:40:18< Alarantalara> Because the non-tropical water displays correctly
20110923 23:41:54< Alarantalara> or maybe not :(
20110923 23:43:06< Alarantalara> I thought the macro was unused, so may be my fault
20110923 23:44:43< shadowmaster> yep, three instances in data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg
20110923 23:45:15< Alarantalara>  It is my fault. However, it does expose an interesting problem with the terrain-graphics tag, even if I misidentified it
20110923 23:45:38< Alarantalara> Since it appears to be a combination of multi-hex images and no map key
20110923 23:46:44< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: I can reproduce with a pre-token binary too
20110923 23:46:58< Alarantalara> Yeah, I think so
20110923 23:47:29< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51268 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics/internal-generic.cfg: Move image tag inside tile. Fixes appearance part of buf 18723
20110923 23:47:36< Alarantalara> that resolves the appearance problem
20110923 23:49:59< anonymissimus> Espreon: https://gna.org/bugs/?18686 is a duplicate btw, I reported the same some months ago
20110923 23:50:20< anonymissimus> but since mordante "won't fix"'d it I don't mind :)
20110923 23:50:41< Espreon> ... Sigh...
20110923 23:50:43< Espreon> Whatever.
20110923 23:51:03< Alarantalara> So it's not token related, but I'm leaving bug open with different description since I don't see any reason that [image] shouldn't always work outside [tile]
20110923 23:52:47< Alarantalara> sorry for the excitement, everyone
20110923 23:56:04< Alarantalara> I suppose I should remove those 3 references-from terrain-graphics.cfg, since the internal macros are not supposed to appear there
20110923 23:56:21< Alarantalara> there's even a nice warning at the start of the file
--- Log closed Sat Sep 24 00:00:30 2011