--- Log opened Wed Sep 28 00:00:10 2011
20110928 00:11:16< Alarantalara> which makes sense: there are a bunch of hidden forest terrains hacked into terrain.cfg to make aliasing work properly
20110928 00:11:27< Alarantalara> and they all have a blank string for their symbol_image
20110928 00:11:38< Alarantalara> thus terrain/.png
20110928 00:11:47< Alarantalara> since the extension is added in code
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20110928 00:12:14< Alarantalara> No preprocessing involved, so you couldn't find anything there
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20110928 00:16:44< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51309 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Fix cannot find terrain/.png error when placing hidden forest/hill terrains
20110928 00:21:32< shadowmaster> Alarantalara: ah, so it wasn't a terrain graphics issue. I had forgotten that [terrain] also involved some automatically generated terrain/ paths
20110928 00:22:48< shadowmaster> Espreon, Elvish_Hunter: http://shadowm.ai0867.net/lulwot.png
20110928 00:24:12< shadowmaster> it is indeed the lowest value for a 64-bit integer
20110928 00:24:16< shadowmaster> loonybot << LONG_MIN;
20110928 00:24:17< loonybot> -9223372036854775808
20110928 00:26:34< anonymissimus> what is the call that triggers that ?
20110928 00:27:52< shadowmaster> I haven't looked at the lua or C++ behind that.
20110928 00:29:50< anonymissimus> I'm asking for the wml
20110928 00:30:01< shadowmaster> it didn't occur in all cases, either
20110928 00:30:06< anonymissimus> obviously...
20110928 00:32:02< shadowmaster> http://pastebin.com/JvgE1rWC
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20110928 00:38:23< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: with what revision is that ? thonsew modified the cfg.something accessing way
20110928 00:38:37< shadowmaster> with 1.9.9
20110928 00:38:45< shadowmaster> (I mean, look at the screenshot!)
20110928 00:38:58< anonymissimus> that is, the way the values of a scalar vconfig entry are accessed
20110928 00:39:08< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51310 /trunk/data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Use large swamp image around swamp castle/keeps
20110928 00:39:26< anonymissimus> thats what happens at cfg.something if the tag is called by wml
20110928 00:40:39< shadowmaster> I think I'm not following you.
20110928 00:41:58< anonymissimus> doesnt matter :)
20110928 00:43:05< anonymissimus> anyway, if someone on 64bit wants to investigate that, it would be helpful to know what the values of cfg.amount and tonumber(cfg.amount) at the start of harm_unit (first line) are...
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20110928 00:47:20< anonymissimus> hm well no, looking at harm_unit's code I suspect some bug in wesnoth.simulate_combat
20110928 00:51:18< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51311 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: change a macro from a recent revision of mine to a function
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20110928 01:01:17< shadowmaster> either way it doesn't worry me since it doesn't consistently occur, but I can imagine the surprise of some players when they stumble upon that ridiculously low damage amount
20110928 01:01:28< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51312 /trunk/data/lua/wml/items.lua: revert part of r51056 (resonless change to [item] behavior)
20110928 01:01:45< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51313 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: remove unused token z_this_unit
20110928 01:02:02< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51314 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: 
20110928 01:02:02< CIA-7> remove an uncalled duplicate operator from struct luaW_pushscalar_visitor
20110928 01:02:02< CIA-7> (uncalled due to the MSVC debugger at least)
20110928 01:02:05< shadowmaster> the actual unit is effectively reduced to 1 HP in any case
20110928 01:02:16< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51315 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: remove confusing usage of a typedef
20110928 01:02:32< CIA-7> anonymissimus * r51316 /trunk/data/lua/wml-tags.lua: add a comment describing the .colour warning from [store_side]...
20110928 01:04:48-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 194 bugs, 332 feature requests, 17 patches | logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20110928 01:10:25< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51317 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/cave/ (2 files): Erase pointy bits of cave chasm wall; fixes bug 18722
20110928 01:10:49< CIA-7> espreon * r51318 /trunk/data/core/macros/unit-utils.cfg: Added FACING, which is meant to be used with unit-generating macros.
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20110928 01:29:45< shadowmaster> whoah
20110928 01:29:51< shadowmaster> just when I need him, he disconnects xD
20110928 01:35:56< shadowmaster> wesbot: patch 911
20110928 01:35:57< wesbot> Patch #911  Assigned to: Mark de Wever <mordante>  Status: Done  Priority: 5 - Normal
20110928 01:36:00< wesbot> Summary: Patches to allow compilation on Solaris, OpenSolaris platforms
20110928 01:36:03< wesbot> Original submission: This patch is big one (created with svn diff) so read i
20110928 01:36:06< wesbot> t carefully ... it surely should not be applied without discussion.It cont
20110928 01:36:08< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/patch/?911
20110928 01:36:11< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/patch/download.php?file_id=3860
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20110928 01:39:28< shadowmaster> $ git log tags/1.5.10..tags/1.5.11
20110928 01:39:34< shadowmaster> this is reall y awesome
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20110928 02:22:52< Alarantalara> More senior people: is it acceptable to change the signature of a terrain graphics macro?
20110928 02:23:13< Alarantalara> Specifically: WALL_ADJACENT
20110928 02:23:57< shadowmaster> probably not since that could break every UMC that relied on its previous definition
20110928 02:24:38< Alarantalara> I know it breaks The Earth's Gut
20110928 02:25:15< Alarantalara> It rather bothers me that it includes both transitions and the base terrain in a single macro
20110928 02:25:57< Alarantalara> I guess I'll define a new macro and stop using that one in mainline
20110928 02:26:17< Alarantalara> That way it will be more in line with the rest of the terrain WML
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20110928 02:43:54< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51319 /trunk/data/core/ (terrain-graphics/misc.cfg terrain-graphics.cfg): 
20110928 02:43:54< CIA-7> New WALL_ADJACENT_TRANSITION macro
20110928 02:43:54< CIA-7> like WALL_ADJACENT but avoids declaring base terrain inside it
20110928 02:43:54< CIA-7> this matches the other wall macros (e.g. NEW:WALL)
20110928 02:43:54< CIA-7> the two instances of this in terrain-graphics are switched to the new macro
20110928 02:43:55< CIA-7> incidentally reduces number of terrain_graphics rules by 1
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20110928 03:02:36< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51320 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/castle/ (12 files): Remove unused wall images (copies of wall-rough-*)
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20110928 03:07:05< shadowmaster> Espreon: noticed this already? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=507912#p507912
20110928 03:09:07< Espreon> shadowmaster: Nope. Thanks.
20110928 03:12:03< CIA-7> espreon * r51321 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: Fixed an issue reported in the fora: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=507912&sid=dc02ff3010a9523f06f76ce6a11ce4eb#p507912
20110928 03:12:15< shadowmaster> grrrr
20110928 03:12:26< Espreon> Wha?
20110928 03:12:42< shadowmaster> the sid GET parameter is useless in public usage >:)
20110928 03:12:51< Espreon> OK.
20110928 03:15:56< CIA-7> alarantalara * r51322 /trunk/images/buttons/group_custom3-active-pressed.png: Added missing button image
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20110928 03:34:08< shadowmaster> nobody in the audience happens to have Wesnoth 1.9.1, 1.9.2, 1.9.3, 1.9.4, 1.9.5, 1.9.6 and 1.9.7 together, right?
20110928 03:34:55< shadowmaster> or alternatively, all of those except for 1.9.5
20110928 03:43:58< Alarantalara> I do
20110928 03:44:40< Alarantalara> shadowmaster: why?
20110928 03:47:27< shadowmaster> I'm trying to find the revision range where a certain bug with music tracks that I haven't reported yet appeared
20110928 03:47:49< shadowmaster> just confirmed that it was at some point between 1.8.0 and 1.9.5
20110928 03:48:58< Alarantalara> so what would I be listening for?
20110928 03:50:41< shadowmaster> given this patch: http://pastebin.com/vBppuJcT ; the expected behavior is that the music track is *not* reset to the beginning after the end of the story screen
20110928 03:51:51< shadowmaster> instead, current versions at least since 1.9.5 are resetting the track; this was supposedly fixed before in version 1.5.something
20110928 03:52:36< shadowmaster> 1.5.9
20110928 03:59:59< shadowmaster> and now we have a new bug, yay! https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18752
20110928 04:00:53< shadowmaster> admittedly I should speed this up by compiling with -O0
20110928 04:01:07< Alarantalara> it's fine in 1.9.2
20110928 04:01:19< Alarantalara> I think
20110928 04:01:36< Alarantalara> yes
20110928 04:01:56< shadowmaster> but not in 1.9.3?
20110928 04:01:57< Alarantalara> (I needed to check the second music cue to make sure I didn't need to do something)
20110928 04:02:08< Alarantalara> I don't know yet. I started in the middle
20110928 04:05:32< Alarantalara> okay in 1.9.3
20110928 04:06:18< shadowmaster> then it appeared between 1.9.3 and 1.9.5 (non-inclusive)
20110928 04:06:31< Alarantalara> checking 1.9.4 now
20110928 04:08:22< Alarantalara> and okay in 1.9.4
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20110928 04:09:37< shadowmaster> could you check 1.9.5 just to make sure? :)
20110928 04:09:49< shadowmaster> it's odd that I don't see anything music or sound-code related in the 1.9.4 .. 1.9.5 range
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20110928 04:11:11< shadowmaster> found something else of interest for me, though.
20110928 04:11:22< shadowmaster> shikadibot: log 48370
20110928 04:11:24< shikadibot> shadowmaster: Revision 48370 (silene) on Sun Jan 23 14:36:54 2011:
20110928 04:11:25< shikadibot> shadowmaster: Changed -d option so that it forcefully enables debug mode in multiplayer games, as requested in bug #17412.
20110928 04:11:28< shikadibot> shadowmaster: Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=48370
20110928 04:11:46< Alarantalara> actually, it works for me in trunk
20110928 04:12:45< shadowmaster> oookay, that may be a problem
20110928 04:16:24< shadowmaster> and now it looks like 1.9.5 is fine for me too
20110928 04:18:02< shadowmaster> maybe it's a different syntax that's causing it in my original case
20110928 04:18:58< shadowmaster> or the fact that, unlike the test scenario, I have an actual playlist with two different tracks
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20110928 04:30:14< Alarantalara> shadowmaster: so I should check again with your actual scenario?
20110928 04:30:14< shadowmaster> I thought there was a way to load any scenario as the test scenario...
20110928 04:31:00< shadowmaster> not really worth it until I figure out the exact WML combination that's triggering this
20110928 04:34:57< shadowmaster> I came up with a proper test-case but it's still awkward to use it since it involves editing data/_main.cfg
20110928 04:38:13< shadowmaster> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php#comment2
20110928 04:38:29< shadowmaster> argh, https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18752#comment2
20110928 04:39:04< shadowmaster> I can confirm it in 1.9.3 using that, though. It is even possible it didn't work in any version in the first place.
20110928 04:42:22< shadowmaster> I can't even play the test case in 1.8
20110928 04:43:57< Alarantalara> The bug is present in 1.9.0a
20110928 04:44:05< Alarantalara> using your new case
20110928 04:45:09< shadowmaster> well, I've just discovered that my life-long assumption that foo = bar and foo="bar" in WML are equivalent, is ultimately wrong (the first is equivalent to foo=" bar", apparently). What seems funny is that the exact behavior does vary between 1.8 and 1.9.
20110928 04:45:37< shadowmaster> but with silene's changes to the parser that's kind of a given
20110928 04:46:12< shadowmaster> but yes, #18752 is present in 1.8 too
20110928 04:49:21< Alarantalara> and 1.6.4
20110928 04:52:35< shadowmaster> I guess back in the day IftU used a completely different macro for specifying music playlists, hence I never stumbled upon this border case. It's a side-effect of the immediate=yes found in the macro: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18752#comment3
20110928 04:53:05< Alarantalara> which sort of makes sense: interrupt whatever's currently playing and start new song
20110928 04:53:31< shadowmaster> yeah, but I am not sure that's wanted if both the requested and previous tracks match (at least I don't want that)
20110928 04:54:28< shadowmaster> I guess I may as well ask zookeeper.
20110928 04:55:21< shadowmaster> thanks for the help anyway, even though I really wasted your time and the cause of the bug was staring at me all the time
20110928 04:55:36< Alarantalara> you're welcome
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20110928 05:16:16< zookeeper> shadowmaster, ask what? i'm a bit fuzzy atm so you'll have to rephrase the question
20110928 05:22:25< shadowmaster> whether music.immediate=yes should force the current track to be rewound when both the requested and current tracks are the same
20110928 05:22:30 * shadowmaster bbl
20110928 05:23:05< zookeeper> my gut feeling would say "yes"
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20110928 06:26:53< shadowmaster> in such case I may have to mark my own bug as Invalid, which sucks :p
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20110928 09:42:25< CIA-7> ivanovic * r51323 /trunk/po/wesnoth-dw/gl.po: updated Galician translation
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20110928 11:29:37< CIA-7> ivanovic * r51324 /trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs): updated Korean translation
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20110928 13:38:25< timotei> Jeß
20110928 13:38:42< timotei> any mac user that uses german keyboard around?
20110928 13:38:55< timotei> fendrin, Ivanovic: around? :P
20110928 13:39:08< elias> well, i have a mac with a german keyboard, but at home
20110928 13:39:11 * Ivanovic does not have a mac (anymore)
20110928 13:39:15< timotei> http://www.elektro-export.de/WebRoot/Store/Shops/es114318_Elektro-Export/4A7D/6349/2A8A/41FB/2EDC/50ED/8961/07A1/apple_macbook_pro_15_tastatur_keyboard.jpg
20110928 13:39:33< timotei> I am interested, is there the < and > key (near A and Z) present on your keyboards?
20110928 13:39:43< timotei> If you use an English layout what keys does that type?
20110928 13:40:02< Ivanovic> no idea what keys those are when using an english layout
20110928 13:40:12< Ivanovic> though this is the normal qwertz layout
20110928 13:40:23< timotei> I am trying to see if I could use a german keyboard for regular english speaking...
20110928 13:40:25< Ivanovic> the "only" differences are those "apple" buttons aka command key
20110928 13:40:35< Ivanovic> for normal chatting: of course
20110928 13:40:39< Ivanovic> i am doing so all the time
20110928 13:40:40< Ivanovic> ;)
20110928 13:41:03< elias> i suppose it will be whatever key an english keyboard has there
20110928 13:41:05< timotei> Because for example, on my notebook I have the | and \ key, which is above enter, while on that mac keyboard doesn't exist.
20110928 13:41:18< elias> i.e. \ and |
20110928 13:41:22< timotei> Ah :(
20110928 13:41:24< Ivanovic> those do exist as extra combination on mac (there the layout differs!)
20110928 13:41:26< timotei> That's what I feared
20110928 13:41:51< Ivanovic> IIRC it was something like alt+4 for | and alt+ctrl+7 for \
20110928 13:41:55< elias> oh, didn't know that
20110928 13:41:57< Ivanovic> s/4/7
20110928 13:42:12< Ivanovic> (when using the normal german layout on a mac)
20110928 13:42:51< Ivanovic> on a "normal" qwertz keyboard \ is on altgr (meaning the right alt) plus ß
20110928 13:43:03< Ivanovic> while | is altgr + <
20110928 13:43:03< timotei> When using the german layout, right?
20110928 13:43:17< Ivanovic> the normal layout on a normal german keyboard, not the mac german layout
20110928 13:43:30< Ivanovic> that one differs regarding the combinations used for "special chars not printed"
20110928 13:43:51< Ivanovic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Germany.svg
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20110928 13:44:08< Ivanovic> that is the "common" german quertz layout
20110928 13:44:09< timotei> ahh
20110928 13:44:22< timotei> I see
20110928 13:45:08< timotei> Ok, thanks for info :D
20110928 13:45:12< elias> you can make a custom layout on mac if you want
20110928 13:45:18< Ivanovic> there you see some chars lie € and stuff, those are usually done with altgr+button
20110928 13:45:25< Ivanovic> (meaning all the blue printed stuff)
20110928 13:45:33< timotei> My single problem was, if I used an ENglish layout on a german keyboard
20110928 13:45:37< Ivanovic> those do differn in the mac layout
20110928 13:45:38< elias> i have an app for that, used it to swap two keys (forgot which)
20110928 13:45:44< timotei> The | and \ not to be on that < >  key
20110928 13:45:50< timotei> That's all :P
20110928 13:45:53< Ivanovic> if you use an english layout, you'll have the english keys at those places
20110928 13:46:13< elias> timotei: i can look up the name of the layout app, it allows changing that
20110928 13:46:26< Ivanovic> though no idea what the english "mac" layout looks like
20110928 13:46:28< timotei> But I see that the german keyboard has one key (the < > ) in plus vs the english keyboard
20110928 13:46:54< elias> hm, that is, i don't know it works on Lion, it's some time i used it (nowadays i use my mac only over synergy :P)
20110928 13:47:21< Ivanovic> timotei: depends on the variation
20110928 13:47:38< Ivanovic> if you got the iso9995 version (eg uk) you get the same general layout
20110928 13:47:43< Ivanovic> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.svg
20110928 13:47:51< timotei> Ah yeah
20110928 13:47:56< timotei> grr
20110928 13:48:02< Ivanovic> though yeah, the ansi version is again different: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_States-NoAltGr.svg
20110928 13:48:06< timotei> I hate that | \ button to be in the left :(
20110928 13:48:09< elias> US layout is the same, they just moved the key from next to space to above enter
20110928 13:48:41< Ivanovic> elias: the layout differs regarding size of enter and left shift
20110928 13:48:54< Ivanovic> leftshift is smaller in the iso version, instead enter is larger
20110928 13:49:00< elias> yes, but i mean for the codes the HW sends
20110928 13:49:12< Ivanovic> yeah, that is right
20110928 13:49:50< timotei> Well, I have to think better. I don't want to kill myself trying to use the new \ | key placement
20110928 13:49:58< timotei> I'm used with the US ISO
20110928 13:50:08< Ivanovic> timotei: not iso but ansi
20110928 13:50:09< elias> but yeah, if you have the big enter key... there's no way to physically have the \ | in the right place I guess :P
20110928 13:50:10< Ivanovic> ;)
20110928 13:50:15< timotei> Ansi, sorry :P
20110928 13:50:38< timotei> I've sent an e-mail to the cyberport.de guys, but they didn't respond me :(
20110928 13:50:41< Ivanovic> timotei: if you got yourself a mac you *could* just spend the extra bucks to get a replacement keyboard
20110928 13:50:55< timotei> Ivanovic: and throw the old one? :P
20110928 13:51:04< Ivanovic> no idea how expensive that would be though
20110928 13:51:07< timotei> I even translated in german the second duplicate mail
20110928 13:51:25< timotei> something like: http://www.cyberport.de/apple-und-zubehoer/zubehoer-mac/4820-414/apple-wireless-keyboard.html
20110928 13:51:58< Ivanovic> nope, that is a plain external keyboard, i am talking along the lines of a replacement keymat
20110928 13:52:09< timotei> A..
20110928 13:53:11< timotei> Btw, does this message look like sane Deutsch?  http://pastebin.com/XBMkuEpE
20110928 13:53:55< Ivanovic> timotei: and you could also look for directly ordering a us layout mac
20110928 13:53:56< elias> the last sentence doesn't
20110928 13:54:10< Espreon> Indeed.
20110928 13:54:14< elias> i.e. I can't figure out what Jahr means there :P
20110928 13:54:15< timotei> The thank you? :P
20110928 13:54:23< Ivanovic> no, the part before
20110928 13:54:23< timotei> Gah...
20110928 13:54:34< timotei> " If I order an iMac, how can I get an Englisch Internationl layout keyboard?"
20110928 13:55:07< Ivanovic> ahhh, i thought you wanted to get a macbook thingie, for an imac it should be rather easy to get a us keyboard
20110928 13:55:12< Ivanovic> better ask this:
20110928 13:55:21< timotei> No notebook xD
20110928 13:55:45< Ivanovic> "Ist es möglich einen iMac mit einer Tastatur mit US Layout zu bestellen?"
20110928 13:55:52< timotei> Danke
20110928 13:56:13< Ivanovic> "is it possible to order an imac with a keyboard with us layout?" would be the corresponding question
20110928 13:56:30< elias> also the sentence before is translated wrong
20110928 13:56:32< elias> i guess
20110928 13:56:47< elias> it says "i know the layout is US"... which would be confusing
20110928 13:57:13< timotei> Ah...
20110928 13:57:14< timotei> Stupid me.
20110928 13:57:23< timotei> Let's hope they understand the previous english message xD
20110928 13:57:25< elias> but replacing them both just with Ivanoviv's shold be clear :)
20110928 13:57:30< timotei> Ok.
20110928 13:58:25< Ivanovic> personally i'd resend it and be more verbose in the english part
20110928 13:58:33< Ivanovic> that is: have both, english and german in the same mail
20110928 13:58:42< Ivanovic> and explicitly state which mac you want to buy
20110928 13:58:53< elias> would they really not understand the english though?
20110928 13:59:19< timotei> IDK, it alreay passed a day since the english message.
20110928 13:59:21< Ivanovic> possibly also explicitly asking if it is possible to select the keyboard layout shipped so that this keyboard is included in the package: http://www.cyberport.de/apple-und-zubehoer/zubehoer-mac/maeuse-tastaturen/4820-110/apple-wireless-keyboard-englisch-international-.html
20110928 13:59:26< Ivanovic> instead of one with the german layout
20110928 13:59:51< Ivanovic> its easier for them if you can directly provide them with the info that they actually got those things in the "correct lang version"
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20110928 14:01:50< Ivanovic> uhm, okay, not sure what keyboard *is* included
20110928 14:01:58< Ivanovic> "Apple Keyboard mit Ziffernblock " sounds like the wired version
20110928 14:02:32< Ivanovic> so you'd be asking for this keyboard instead: http://www.cyberport.de/apple-und-zubehoer/zubehoer-mac/maeuse-tastaturen/4820-101/apple-keyboard-mit-ziffernblock-englisch-international-.html
20110928 14:04:54< timotei> Yeah. The wired version. I hate the wireless one xD
20110928 14:06:41< Ivanovic> have you checked that cyberport will actually ship it to you?
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20110928 14:09:25< Ivanovic> ah, okay, they do and shipping to romania is "just" 50€...
20110928 14:11:27< Espreon> My my...
20110928 14:12:17< timotei> Ivanovic: do you know any better website for macs from DE? :P
20110928 14:12:24< timotei> 50EUR is fine 
20110928 14:12:36< Ivanovic> timotei: none of which i am sure that they'll send to romania
20110928 14:12:36< Espreon> Why must they be from Germany?
20110928 14:12:37< timotei> They ship through DHL... so yeahz
20110928 14:12:37< Ivanovic> ;)
20110928 14:12:45< timotei> Espreon: Where from then? :P
20110928 14:12:50< Ivanovic> dhl or ups, one of the two
20110928 14:13:22< Ivanovic> timotei: personally i tend to just use some price comparison site and look what is cheapest for me (while the dealer being trustworthy enough)
20110928 14:13:30< Espreon> timotei: IDK.
20110928 14:13:33< Ivanovic> eg using stuff like this: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=sysdiv&xf=443_Intel+Core+i5~443_Intel+Core+i5-2xxx~451_Apple~2017_21.5&sort=p
20110928 14:13:38< Espreon> timotei: Some other European country?
20110928 14:13:49< timotei> I know just amazon
20110928 14:13:50< timotei> xD
20110928 14:14:15< Ivanovic> Espreon: for getting the hardware (not software!) germany is a rather good place
20110928 14:14:25< timotei> Ivanovic: cyberport offer -100EUR bonus for any Zubehor
20110928 14:14:30< Espreon> Ivanovic: Hmmm, I see.
20110928 14:14:35< Espreon> Ivanovic: Why not software?
20110928 14:14:36< timotei> so I get AppleCare for extended 3 years warranty - 100EUR = 50EUR 
20110928 14:14:40< Ivanovic> due to lots of competition there tend to be some at least okayish shopsoffering *really* good prices
20110928 14:15:01< Ivanovic> Espreon: since software includes games and games are a freaking lot cheaper from the jersey islands / uk
20110928 14:15:09< Espreon> Ah.
20110928 14:15:50< Ivanovic> Espreon: prices for games from the uk are often below 20€ about one to three month after release
20110928 14:16:04< Ivanovic> while they stay close to the release price in germany for about a year or more
20110928 14:16:09< Espreon> I wouldn't know any of this. After all, I live all the way over here.
20110928 14:16:15< Ivanovic> (release price being 40 to 50€ for pc games)
20110928 14:16:16< Espreon> Hmmm, that's quite a difference.
20110928 14:16:36< timotei> Espreon: You just can't compare US prices with EU  ones :P
20110928 14:16:37< Ivanovic> eg i bought dragon age 2 for mere 12,50€ just 3 weeks after release
20110928 14:16:44< Espreon> timotei: Damn right.
20110928 14:17:09< Espreon> After experiencing the prices over there, I'd rather stay over here. But then again, I was in the tourist country.
20110928 14:17:17< Espreon> That is, Italy.
20110928 14:17:19< Ivanovic> the lowest price in germany right now, about half a year after the release, is still 30€
20110928 14:18:58< Espreon> Ugh, euros. I never want to talk about those again.
20110928 14:19:11< Espreon> The prices over there were that scary.
20110928 14:20:12< Ivanovic> timotei: yeah, those 100€ bonus thingies are nice
20110928 14:22:26< timotei> Jess
20110928 14:22:39< Espreon> ...
20110928 14:23:29< timotei> brb
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20110928 19:33:10< anonymissimus> alarantalara: if you somehow add this woodden wall to core I'd be happy with removing that macro
20110928 19:33:28< anonymissimus> also, I'm not yet using that terrain actually
20110928 19:33:47< anonymissimus> its just in my terrain definitions files
20110928 19:34:20< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: you had some question ?
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20110928 19:49:08< CIA-7> ai0867 * r51325 /trunk/src/serialization/ (string_utils.cpp string_utils.hpp): 
20110928 19:49:08< CIA-7> Remove all non-double versions of si_string(). This fixes lack-of-significant-digits problems.
20110928 19:49:08< CIA-7> Remove default arguments to si_string() to encourage people to use translatable strings.
20110928 19:49:09< AI0867> shadowmaster: ^
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20110928 19:55:17< AI0867> there seems to be some glitch when jumping from 9xx KiB to 1.xx MiB, though that might be my eyes or a display bug
20110928 20:06:58-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110928 20:07:12< mordante> servus
20110928 20:15:17< Espreon> mordante: Ic grete þe.
20110928 20:17:18< mordante> hi Espreon 
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20110928 20:59:58< anonymissimus> mordante: how large or difficult to understand is the wesnoth C++ source in comparison to corporate software projects ?
20110928 21:02:16-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20110928 21:03:05< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: not anymore
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20110928 21:04:38< mordante> anonymissimus, depends one what corporate projects you compare it with
20110928 21:04:59< mordante> we use some heavy templated stuff, which some companies outlaw
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20110928 21:05:21< Espreon> Elvish_Hunter: Ciao.
20110928 21:05:33< mordante> also I think we have little "the big picture" documentation
20110928 21:05:38< Elvish_Hunter> Espreon: Ciao!
20110928 21:06:02< mordante> for a project at work I've design document which documents the design and interface of a project
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20110928 21:06:27< mordante> the project is rather new and that document contains over 50 pages
20110928 21:06:48< mordante> (it contains a part of a communication protocol as well)
20110928 21:07:18< anonymissimus> well that doesnt surprise me I guess
20110928 21:07:24< mordante> but if you hint at the new token code, more documentation would be really nice
20110928 21:07:43< anonymissimus> no, my question has nothing to do with tokens
20110928 21:07:58< anonymissimus> it wasn't intended at least
20110928 21:09:21< mordante> ah ok
20110928 21:10:02< mordante> but really depends on the corporate project and what policies they have there
20110928 21:11:16< mordante> how the software is structured (or whether it is structured)
20110928 21:11:24< mordante> the amount of documentation
20110928 21:11:32< mordante> and of course the size of the project
20110928 21:11:51< anonymissimus> wesnoth=zero documentation...
20110928 21:12:01< anonymissimus> or at least not up to date
20110928 21:12:16< mordante> not true we have doxygen comment in several places and also the wiki contains a lot of information
20110928 21:12:25< mordante> the WML reference is a part of the documentation
20110928 21:12:30< anonymissimus> "or whether it is structured" :)
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20110928 21:13:15< mordante> IMO wesnoth has a lot of parts that need to know a lot of "unrelated parts"
20110928 21:13:51< mordante> esr once tried to untangle the display class, he managed to separate it a bit but still has too much ties all over the place
20110928 21:14:04< anonymissimus> yes the wml wiki is good, but I dont count it as part of documentation
20110928 21:14:15< mordante> why not?
20110928 21:14:28< mordante> it at least specifies how parts of the WML should behave
20110928 21:14:50< shadowmaster> Wesnoth isn't 100% WML
20110928 21:15:09< anonymissimus> well...maybe its no longer sufficient for me, since I know most tags and how it genrally works anyway
20110928 21:15:30< mordante> of course not, I didn't say it documents all code, but it documents a part of the interface
20110928 21:15:47< anonymissimus> really, I tend to look in the code to find out what subkeys are allowed instead
20110928 21:15:50< Elvish_Hunter> shadowmaster: is it confirmed that the [harm_unit] bug is on the C++ side of the code?
20110928 21:16:06< Elvish_Hunter> I read the logs, but I'm asking just to be sure.
20110928 21:16:24< shadowmaster> no idea
20110928 21:16:38< anonymissimus> didnt ai just fix it ?
20110928 21:16:57< shadowmaster> people, it's Espreon who reported this to you, not me. I can't be bothered to work on it.
20110928 21:17:09< shadowmaster> AI0867 fixed a completely different issue in a completely different area.
20110928 21:17:50< Espreon> And I haven't actually produced it.
20110928 21:18:19< shadowmaster> this is not the best moment for me to go around chasing an imaginary shiny ball
20110928 21:21:09< CIA-7> mordante * r51326 /trunk/src/ (gamestatus.cpp race.cpp theme.cpp time_of_day.cpp): Fix some pedantic warnings.
20110928 21:21:21< CIA-7> mordante * r51327 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Let operator++() return a reference.
20110928 21:21:21< CIA-7> mordante * r51328 /trunk/src/ (variant.cpp variant.hpp): Let operator++() return a reference.
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20110928 21:25:08< CIA-7> elvish_hunter * r51329 /trunk/ (changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua): Added [find_path]
20110928 21:25:32< Elvish_Hunter> I hope that Sapient will appreciate... :-)
20110928 21:27:03< anonymissimus> Elvish_Hunter: maybe you should show the wml usage example to zookeeper or Sapient
20110928 21:27:11< anonymissimus> and to me
20110928 21:27:29< shadowmaster> and don't forget the wiki
20110928 21:27:40< Elvish_Hunter> Don't worry. The documentation is in the WLP.
20110928 21:27:43< anonymissimus> as long as no release is made yet we generally dont mind changing something
20110928 21:28:00< Elvish_Hunter> I was about to say about the wiki.
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20110928 21:28:30< mordante> I'm off night
20110928 21:28:49-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110928 21:32:43< Elvish_Hunter> Internal Actions / Variable Actions / Capturing Game Data is fine as category for [find_path] ?
20110928 21:34:52< Espreon> im gay
20110928 21:35:44< Espreon> im not gay
20110928 21:35:54< shadowmaster> Espreon: did one of your brothers steal your keyboard?
20110928 21:36:54< Espreon> Yup.
20110928 21:37:16< zookeeper> i'll forever be pasting that quote everywhere
20110928 21:37:16-!- Elvish_Hunter [6d35b8c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.53.184.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110928 21:37:23< Espreon> Heh.
20110928 21:37:41< zookeeper> maybe i'll finally add a forum signature for myself
20110928 21:37:53< Espreon> Can't leave this thing unlocked...
20110928 21:37:55< shadowmaster> Gambit would be proud.
20110928 21:38:00< Espreon> Yup.
20110928 21:41:50< Espreon> Hmmm, speaking of documentation, I really should finish rewriting the WesCamp article...
20110928 21:43:23< anonymissimus> Elvish_Hunter: what's a "StandardUnitLocationFilter"
20110928 21:43:29< anonymissimus> ;)
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20110928 21:48:43< Espreon> timotei: LaTeX is interesting shit. I think I'll actually bother to learn it.
20110928 21:49:00< Elvish_Hunter> Espreon, anonymissimus: fixed in the wiki ;-)
20110928 21:49:12< Elvish_Hunter> The wiki entries are done, and now I have to go. Bye!
20110928 21:49:34< Espreon> Ciao.
20110928 21:49:51-!- Elvish_Hunter [6d35b8c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.53.184.200] has quit [Client Quit]
20110928 21:51:06< anonymissimus> Elvish_Hunter: pls stay
20110928 21:51:29< shadowmaster> haha
20110928 21:51:32< anonymissimus> some other thoughts; I thinks its better to rename some of the tags/key
20110928 21:51:50< anonymissimus> instead of [traveler] why not simply [filter] as usual ?
20110928 21:53:02< anonymissimus> also, I find ignore_something=yes|no quite confusing, variable or key names should never have a negation IMHO
20110928 21:53:49< anonymissimus> even if that's already the name of the key when passing to wesnoth.find_path and maybe the name of teh parameters in the C++ code as well 
20110928 21:55:21< anonymissimus> check_visibility and similar would be better names imho (as I did for ingore_passability in a tag, before adding that key to several other tags)
20110928 21:56:00< anonymissimus> well, I'll point you to the log in case you don't read it :)
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20110928 22:23:04< anonymissimus> "unword" of the year: token!
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20110928 22:26:21< anonymissimus> taboo word of the year
20110928 22:36:09< timotei> Espreon:  :P
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20110928 22:36:38< timotei> anonymissimus: maybe t_token :p
20110928 22:36:49< Espreon> timotei: You didn't tell me it could do shit with ligatures.
20110928 22:36:54< anonymissimus> yup, thats even better
20110928 22:36:55< timotei> ...
20110928 22:37:15< timotei> Espreon: you can do whatever you want with LaTeX :P Even draw vector graphics
20110928 22:38:02< timotei> Something like http://nitens.org/taraborelli/latex#rare ?
20110928 22:38:03< timotei> Espreon: ^
20110928 22:38:18< timotei> Ah, the entire ... article is nice 
20110928 22:39:47< Espreon> Yeah, that's the article I read earlier.
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20110928 22:53:49< anonymissimus> timotei: can we pass a script as and argument in MSVC when starting teh debugger
20110928 22:54:14< timotei> anonymissimus: it's a question? :P
20110928 22:54:29< timotei> argument for debugger, yeah
20110928 22:54:49< anonymissimus> for me it looks like this now: -d --nodelay --nocache --log-debug=wml -c the_earths_gut --campaign-difficulty 2 --campaign-scenario test
20110928 22:55:04< timotei> hehe, so -c thingy it's used
20110928 22:55:05< timotei> cool!
20110928 22:55:19< anonymissimus> this is obviously something else for other devs
20110928 22:55:36< timotei> I guess that only with a VB Macro it can be done
20110928 22:55:53< timotei> actually...
20110928 22:55:56< timotei> you could use a script
20110928 22:56:08< timotei> in the debugger tab (project properties)
20110928 22:56:18< timotei> you could set the Command to the script
20110928 22:56:22< anonymissimus> and I want to pass varying things there of course
20110928 22:56:28< timotei> hmm
20110928 22:56:41< timotei> You need to create an exe as the script ...
20110928 22:56:47< timotei> But it's still something
20110928 22:56:56< timotei> the exe could contain something like: 
20110928 22:57:01< timotei> system("myscript.cmd");
20110928 22:57:08< timotei> system("wesnoth.exe");
20110928 22:59:18< timotei> anonymissimus: ok, just tested `system("test.cmd");` and it works!
20110928 22:59:27< timotei> You need to ensure it's in the project's root dir
20110928 22:59:29< timotei> though
20110928 22:59:42< timotei> But I guess you got the idea. Is that what you wanted?
20110928 23:00:02< timotei> You could even make that script interactive I guess
20110928 23:02:04< anonymissimus> ok, do you want to commit ? with an example how it's meant to be used
20110928 23:02:19< anonymissimus> the goal is to have developer-specific arguments
20110928 23:02:27< timotei> hmm... like?
20110928 23:02:28< anonymissimus> or varying arguments
20110928 23:02:34< timotei> Ahhh
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20110928 23:02:50< timotei> You want to use some debugger args but those to not be commited? :P
20110928 23:03:21< anonymissimus> yep
20110928 23:03:29< timotei> I see
20110928 23:03:41< timotei> Well... for that... I think I have to commit a binary...
20110928 23:03:42< timotei> though
20110928 23:04:36< timotei> ok.
20110928 23:04:39< timotei> I'll try :P
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20110928 23:53:43< timotei> anonymissimus: hmm...
20110928 23:53:51< timotei> anonymissimus: I need to modify the wesnoth code to support that xD
20110928 23:54:06< timotei> I created a small script but yeahz...
20110928 23:54:37< anonymissimus> timotei: ok well...then let it be...
20110928 23:54:38< timotei> I don't know if it's a good idea to "enhance" the code to be so tool-oriented.
20110928 23:54:41< timotei> What do you say?
20110928 23:54:58< timotei> I'd use a #ifdef _MSVC_VER
20110928 23:55:32< timotei> the script I've written works just with CTRL+F5
20110928 23:55:53< timotei> to be able to use F5 with non-commit args we have to modify wesnoth code xD
20110928 23:56:03< timotei> I'm open to the idea 
20110928 23:56:17< timotei> But tomorrow. Leave me a message if so
20110928 23:56:18< timotei> Nigh
20110928 23:56:20< timotei> t
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 29 00:00:19 2011