--- Log opened Sun Sep 04 00:00:55 2011
20110904 00:12:13-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 00:13:03-!- Smar [~smar@freenet/translator/finnish/Smar] has quit [Quit: Changing server]
20110904 00:13:18-!- Smar [~smar@freenet/translator/finnish/Smar] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 00:31:50-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.]
20110904 00:47:09-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110904 00:54:11-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110904 00:54:48-!- negusnyul_ [~negusnyul@183-86-125.ip.adsl.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 01:11:43-!- knotwork_ [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 01:13:58-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20110904 01:14:56-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110904 01:16:04-!- knotwork_ is now known as knotwork
20110904 01:17:45-!- vcap [~vcap@AReims-551-1-79-38.w90-58.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20110904 01:20:26-!- vcap [~vcap@AReims-551-1-79-38.w90-58.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 01:22:31-!- ancestral [~ancestral@12.145.225.25] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 01:33:34-!- Muad_Dibber [~raymonvw@ip5451aac1.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 01:42:34-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 01:58:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 01:59:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 02:01:22-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 02:05:52< ancestral> Wesbot: Seen Blueblaze
20110904 02:05:52< wesbot> ancestral: The person with the nick Blueblaze 16d 7h ago they left the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev:
20110904 02:10:45-!- Sarcasm [~user@101.18.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1]
20110904 02:16:29-!- ancestral [~ancestral@12.145.225.25] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai]
20110904 02:42:34-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 02:45:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 02:57:31< sshc> Do I need to actually pop the white mage on isle of the damned to recall him in later scenarios?
20110904 03:05:16-!- PetePorty [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 03:06:10-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has quit [Quit: Conspiracies don't exist. If you disagree, you are an idiot.]
20110904 03:07:13< joo> sshc, "pop"?
20110904 03:23:48-!- ancestral [~ancestral@12.145.225.25] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 03:38:05-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 03:40:19-!- ancestral [~ancestral@12.145.225.25] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai]
20110904 03:41:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110904 03:41:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 03:53:23-!- horon [~horon@nttkyo103205.tkyo.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 03:55:22-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 04:13:16-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4d0bcc95.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 04:13:16-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4d0bcc95.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 04:13:16-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 04:14:05-!- Gambit is now known as OperatingThetan
20110904 04:15:03-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@180.246.188.225] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 04:17:28-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110904 04:19:22-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20110904 04:25:34-!- Panda_ [~panda@yer91-5-88-185-82-165.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 04:43:56-!- OperatingThetan is now known as BodyThetan
20110904 04:47:06-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 04:47:09-!- BodyThetan is now known as Xenu
20110904 04:47:15-!- Xenu is now known as Gambit
20110904 04:58:46-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 05:20:00-!- NightWolf- [NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has quit [Quit: [13:22:21] <S[scoRpion]aFk> boah red nich immer so scheisse daher! Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! Wenns keinen was angeht gehts keinen was an, und wenns auf der hp stehen würde]
20110904 05:31:10-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@ppp59-167-222-56.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 05:32:09-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@24-177-37-98.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110904 05:33:16-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 05:36:09-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110904 05:36:10-!- noy_ is now known as noy
20110904 05:53:39-!- 36DAB54LG [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20110904 05:57:55-!- Gambit [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 06:01:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 06:02:30-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 06:14:31-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 06:19:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 06:21:00-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 06:27:00-!- PetePorty [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 06:31:32-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 07:15:22-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-155-217-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 07:22:11-!- chpln [~chpln@ppp121-45-41-79.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110904 07:24:17-!- chpln [~chpln@ppp121-45-102-214.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 07:36:01-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70-59-73-36.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 07:36:12-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70-59-73-36.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20110904 08:15:46-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit []
20110904 08:16:01-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110904 08:40:23-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has quit [Quit: my chatzilla is messing with me. please excuse me while i put it in it's place]
20110904 08:40:58-!- MeccaGod [~majs@host189-199.bornet.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 08:41:02-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 08:43:12-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 08:43:50-!- zapadlo [~zapadlo@host-78-146-97-191.as13285.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 09:02:00-!- jooo [~joo@unaffiliated/joo] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 09:04:18-!- joo [~joo@unaffiliated/joo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 09:11:21< Ivanovic> moin
20110904 09:11:31< enchilado> moin
20110904 09:12:19-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 09:50:20-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-61-187-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 09:50:45-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-61-187-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 09:51:28-!- jooo is now known as joo
20110904 09:57:21-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:05:31-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:08:46-!- Panda_ [~panda@yer91-5-88-185-82-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:10:37-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@host86-150-63-246.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:15:54-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@h47-207.pool95-168.dyn.tolna.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:16:58-!- Rose [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:17:24-!- Rose is now known as Guest51
20110904 10:19:16-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110904 10:36:13-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@host86-150-63-246.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110904 10:38:29-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:40:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110904 10:41:07-!- Guest51 [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110904 10:48:35-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 10:58:03-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 10:59:08-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:02:16-!- roSievers [~roSievers@p5B36D188.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:02:29-!- roSievers [~roSievers@p5B36D188.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #wesnoth []
20110904 11:09:28-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:11:05-!- Mkaysi [~Mkaysi@gateway/tor-sasl/mkaysi] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:16:20-!- Mkaysi is now known as Guest6821
20110904 11:16:32-!- Mkaysi_ [~Mkaysi@gateway/tor-sasl/mkaysi] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:17:37-!- Mkaysi_ [~Mkaysi@gateway/tor-sasl/mkaysi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 11:18:26-!- Guest6821 is now known as Mkaysi
20110904 11:22:49-!- Rose [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:23:15-!- Rose is now known as Guest77955
20110904 11:23:32-!- Guest77955 [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Client Quit]
20110904 11:25:01-!- Cookie [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:26:23-!- Cookiee [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 11:30:33-!- Panda_ [~panda@yer91-5-88-185-82-165.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 11:33:52-!- covale [~covale@h55eb1c96.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:35:18-!- covale [~covale@h55eb1c96.selukra.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20110904 11:39:29-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy_]
20110904 11:41:46-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:41:46-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 11:41:46-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 11:43:55-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110904 11:46:19-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@180.246.188.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 11:56:42-!- Sarcasm [~user@101.18.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 12:20:35-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.160.82.247] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 12:26:49-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 12:26:57-!- atomicbomb_ [~quassel@125.160.82.247] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 12:28:13-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.160.82.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110904 12:29:18-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 12:30:17-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20110904 12:42:09-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 12:51:03-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:09:12-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20110904 13:12:59-!- daglees [~belvedere@92.62.115.195] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:12:59-!- daglees [~belvedere@92.62.115.195] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 13:12:59-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:19:31-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@h47-207.pool95-168.dyn.tolna.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 13:22:27-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:24:53-!- atomicbomb_ [~quassel@125.160.82.247] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
20110904 13:25:12-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.160.82.247] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:43:33-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@host86-150-63-246.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:43:52-!- Filar [~Mussious@dfi196.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:44:03-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.160.82.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 13:52:11-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@183.157.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 13:54:37-!- mich- [~michele@host165-209-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 14:01:20-!- Gambit [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 14:06:33-!- Unnheulu|Lt [~ieuan@host86-150-63-246.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 14:14:06-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@183-86-125.ip.adsl.hu] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 14:22:38-!- Unnheulu|Lt [~ieuan@host86-150-63-246.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20110904 14:26:13-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
20110904 14:48:03-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 14:50:10< Unnheulu> I wanna play wesnoth on my phone :-(
20110904 14:50:18< Unnheulu> Stupid market >:(
20110904 14:59:04< vurtualruler98> exactly
20110904 14:59:15< vurtualruler98> why can't we just run the desktop version
20110904 15:00:03-!- 14WAB73EK [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:00:19< Unnheulu> :P
20110904 15:01:33-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:01:34-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:02:13< Unnheulu> shadowmaster, you can get a ZTE Blade for ~£100, 480x800, 512mb ram and 600mhz processor if you want an android phone :P
20110904 15:02:37< Unnheulu> It has Android 2.1 but it's easy to upgrade that
20110904 15:04:58-!- 14WAB73EK [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110904 15:06:12< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Would not recommend
20110904 15:06:24< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn, the ZTE Blade?
20110904 15:06:32< Aethaeryn> 1 GHz phones have been around for close to two years now
20110904 15:06:34< Unnheulu> For playing wesnoth or general usage?
20110904 15:06:43-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@24-177-37-98.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:06:43< Aethaeryn> Which means that the ZTE Blade is completely blarghed.
20110904 15:06:47< Unnheulu> I've seen the phone and it works very nice, especially given the price
20110904 15:07:06< Aethaeryn> Bargain Android phones is the fastest way to not get a good impression of Android
20110904 15:07:23< Unnheulu> From what I've seen of it it works really well
20110904 15:07:28< Aethaeryn> Especially in the US with all the carrier crapware they add to an already slow phone. Elsewhere, it's just manufacturer crapware.
20110904 15:07:40< Unnheulu> Have you got a ZTE Blade?
20110904 15:07:43< Aethaeryn> No.
20110904 15:07:46< Unnheulu> My bros do :P
20110904 15:07:48< Aethaeryn> But the specs are extremely low.
20110904 15:07:55< Unnheulu> Meh, the phone works well
20110904 15:08:08< Aethaeryn> I have a 1 GHz phone and there are some apps I can't run well.
20110904 15:08:17< Unnheulu> And when using it, some stuff runs slowly, but generally it works fine
20110904 15:09:57< Aethaeryn> The Motorola Droid was 854x480 with a 600 Mhz processor back in fall 2009
20110904 15:10:16< Aethaeryn> The ZTE Blade has twice the RAM, but other than that is essentially a two-year-old Android experience.
20110904 15:10:36-!- jpi80 [~juanpi@78-3-20-146.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:11:32< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: I'm just saying, when people say "Android sucks" they usually mean "<random phone barely better than a feature phone that happens to run Android> sucks"
20110904 15:11:42< Unnheulu> The only problem I've found is that some apps are slow on it
20110904 15:11:49< Unnheulu> It works very well otherwise
20110904 15:12:08< vurtualruler98> reccomended phone model then
20110904 15:12:08< Unnheulu> Much better than (for instance) my old T-Mobile Pulse
20110904 15:12:13< elias> i haven't found any slow apps on mine... but i don't have a lot of apps
20110904 15:12:21-!- jpi80 is now known as KaKiLa
20110904 15:12:42< Aethaeryn> Well, I happen to like my Nexus One, but it's coming up to two years old soon.
20110904 15:12:55< elias> nexus s in my case
20110904 15:13:08< Unnheulu> Aethaeryn, so you'd tell someone to buy a ~£500 nexus s over a ~£100 zte blade?
20110904 15:13:08< elias> at least wesnoth runs completely smooth :)
20110904 15:13:21< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: Generally, you get what you pay for.
20110904 15:13:23< vurtualruler98> how about we build our own phones
20110904 15:13:36< Aethaeryn> I've been screwed over by low end stuff and even mid-ranged stuff built like low end stuff.
20110904 15:13:39< vurtualruler98> also wtf mate 100 euros for a phone
20110904 15:13:54< Aethaeryn> When it comes to hardware, I'm all for paying for the best you can get, and stretching its life out as long as possible.
20110904 15:14:07< Aethaeryn> You might wind up saving money, and having a better experience, since it'll last longer and not be obsolete as soon.
20110904 15:14:23< Unnheulu> Meh
20110904 15:14:28< Aethaeryn> Unnheulu: And no, I'd tell them to wait for the Nexus Prime.
20110904 15:14:36< vurtualruler98> I don't want to really get a phone, even though it'd have so many mundane uses.
20110904 15:14:52< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: If you're an American, you'd be extremely frustrated to know that most phones are between $400 and $600
20110904 15:14:53< vurtualruler98> but the idea of setting it up properly to literally do everything that everyoe I know buys multiple devices for would be priceless
20110904 15:15:03< Unnheulu> Meh, sure it's slower than my galaxy s2, but it works well enough for most things
20110904 15:15:04< vurtualruler98> I've never found a phone anywhere that costs 400 dollars
20110904 15:15:11< vurtualruler98> literally, if they did so, we would save a lot of money
20110904 15:15:19< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: The carriers "mark it down" and essentially sell them on credit. You wind up paying much larger bills this way. you pay several hundred to a thousand more over the course of the two year contract.
20110904 15:15:41< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: No other country that I know of puts up with that gullable "omfg, cheap phone" shit other than the US.
20110904 15:15:55< Aethaeryn> Even in Canada, the unlocked (real) prices are larger than the contract prices on the displays.
20110904 15:16:13< vurtualruler98> no, straight out with the phone
20110904 15:16:22< vurtualruler98> then again I'm not someone who is happy with the idea of people adding money to the price of hardware
20110904 15:16:29< Aethaeryn> The $400 phones are the crappy ones.
20110904 15:16:38< Aethaeryn> Generally the high end ones that they mark down to $100 or so are really about $500
20110904 15:17:04< Aethaeryn> Though I haven't really looked into any in about a year, so the prices might have come down.
20110904 15:17:33< Aethaeryn> actually
20110904 15:17:41< Aethaeryn> the Nexus S is now $414.99 on Amazon
20110904 15:17:50< Unnheulu> Wow
20110904 15:18:00< vurtualruler98> that's not too... horrible, under your scheme, right?
20110904 15:18:01< Aethaeryn> And the Nexus One is $409.95
20110904 15:18:02< Unnheulu> When I looked at it about 6months ago it was >£500
20110904 15:18:09< vurtualruler98> for 200-300 I can get something that does what most high-end phones can do and plays NES games first party
20110904 15:18:26< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: I can play NES/SNES games too.
20110904 15:18:28< Aethaeryn> There's apps for that.
20110904 15:18:30< Aethaeryn> <_<
20110904 15:18:32< Aethaeryn> >_>
20110904 15:18:56< Aethaeryn> only 2 Nexus One's in stock and 14 Nexus S's
20110904 15:18:59< Aethaeryn> They're rather popular.
20110904 15:19:28< vurtualruler98> You're talking about piracy.
20110904 15:19:59< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: it's not piracy to have something like zsnes on the desktop or some mobile client. It's just an emulator of a system.
20110904 15:20:14< vurtualruler98> If we wanted to ignore legality then I'd just use a handmade phone that's cheaper than all of them, and has hacked access to all cell towers in the US and have free unlimited data, tethering, calls, and texts, under any number I choose, without paying a cent for it.
20110904 15:20:26< Aethaeryn> So, I can play NES/SNES games. I'm just waiting for Nintendo to sell them off of their own hardware, which are getting less and less competitive.
20110904 15:20:44< Aethaeryn> Certain ones of their classics, like Super Mario World, I've owned in multiple forms.
20110904 15:20:46< vurtualruler98> the main point of playing NES and SNES games is to... play NES and SNES games.
20110904 15:21:13< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: It's cheaper to make a phone that hacks access to the carriers for free usage?
20110904 15:21:17< Aethaeryn> Show me.
20110904 15:21:24< vurtualruler98> ...you do realize that's a huge crime right?
20110904 15:21:33< Aethaeryn> Exactly. The illegality will drive up the price.
20110904 15:21:37< Aethaeryn> Just like with illegal drugs.
20110904 15:21:41< vurtualruler98> hardly, free software
20110904 15:21:47-!- NightWolf- [NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:21:50< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: It's not software-end.
20110904 15:21:57< vurtualruler98> And that phones are pretty insanely insecure, things like iPhones/iPads will aggressively connect to fake celltower inbetweens
20110904 15:21:57< Aethaeryn> You'd need *all* of their hardware bands.
20110904 15:22:08< Aethaeryn> And their SIMs, which are of two types (AT&T/TMobile and Sprint/Verizon)
20110904 15:22:12< vurtualruler98> worst case scenario you gut some abandoned old phones
20110904 15:23:17< Aethaeryn> heh
20110904 15:23:26< vurtualruler98> the first rule of technology is that if it involves security, random people can break it better than the people who made it.
20110904 15:23:27< Aethaeryn> I guess scavanging would do the trick.
20110904 15:23:32< Aethaeryn> Old coins are worth more than their face value.
20110904 15:23:45< vurtualruler98> I bought super mario world once for gba and then I picked up metroid and zelda 2 and then some virtual console games
20110904 15:24:36< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: If I own the Super Mario World gba version, why would it be illegal for me to make a digital copy for back-up purposes on my own personal use that I don't share with others?
20110904 15:24:38< vurtualruler98> altogether the only games I own twice from nintendo are ALTTP(combo-game GBA and virtual console), and ocarina of time, the latter of which with a portable remake.
20110904 15:24:44< vurtualruler98> Aethaeryn, because it's the law.
20110904 15:24:51< vurtualruler98> ...that's sort of how illegality works.
20110904 15:24:52< Aethaeryn> Usually, they only care about the sharing
20110904 15:24:56< vurtualruler98> ...even if the law is contrived.
20110904 15:25:08< vurtualruler98> lawful is not my favorite D&D alignment
20110904 15:25:31< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Oh, granted, I haven't done any legal gray area things in a few years...
20110904 15:25:39< Aethaeryn> Since I find that I don't even want to give bullshit companies mindshare.
20110904 15:25:57< vurtualruler98> chances are you do legal "gray area" things every day and don't even notice
20110904 15:26:02< vurtualruler98> laws can be stupid like that
20110904 15:26:11< Aethaeryn> Photoshop and Office are pirated often, so they have a larger userbase than the people who purchase. Helps force legality-minded consumers to have to purchase them.
20110904 15:26:24< vurtualruler98> "mindshare"?
20110904 15:26:29< vurtualruler98> is this 1984 2: hipster boogalo?
20110904 15:26:45< vurtualruler98> also technically I have an extra instance of super mario bros, metroid, zelda, zelda II, and probably some other game I'm missing
20110904 15:26:48< vurtualruler98> because free 3DS games :D
20110904 15:26:57-!- daglees [~belvedere@unaffiliated/daglees] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110904 15:27:00< Aethaeryn> hah.
20110904 15:27:02< Aethaeryn> 3DS
20110904 15:27:06< Aethaeryn> Complete failure of a system.
20110904 15:27:12< Aethaeryn> In terms of sales.
20110904 15:27:17< Aethaeryn> Mobile gamers moved to mobile.
20110904 15:27:22< vurtualruler98> nobody cares about mobile gamers
20110904 15:27:42< vurtualruler98> did you know that the freenode web irc runs on the 3DS unmodded?
20110904 15:27:50< Aethaeryn> So?
20110904 15:27:59< vurtualruler98> it's not bad after a while, sales did pick up when they dropped the price, and they're dealing with the issues.
20110904 15:28:09< vurtualruler98> also, as you've said, it's cheaper than a phone
20110904 15:28:18< Aethaeryn> But the smartphone is a multipurpose device.
20110904 15:28:20< vurtualruler98> and has like 2 games now.
20110904 15:28:31< vurtualruler98> I'm sorry but I'm not scrawny
20110904 15:28:38< vurtualruler98> I carry a heavy laptop when I need multipurpose
20110904 15:28:47< vurtualruler98> smartphones just aren't advanced enough for anything I'd call multipurpose
20110904 15:28:49< Aethaeryn> Dedicated game devices, dedicated phone devices, dedicated MP3 player devices, dedicated web browsing devices, etc.
20110904 15:28:58< Aethaeryn> They're all better than a smartphone.
20110904 15:29:06< vurtualruler98> the 3DS does all of that but phone by the way
20110904 15:29:15< Aethaeryn> But for those of us who have real lives, we can't buy one device for everything, carry them around everywhere, and know exactly what we'll want at any given moment.
20110904 15:29:15< vurtualruler98> dedicated MP3 players? who makes those?
20110904 15:29:24< vurtualruler98> Sound is sort of one of the... easy modes of technology in a way
20110904 15:29:44< vurtualruler98> high audio quality was one of the first things to roll around, and making a decent MP3 player isn't hard at all
20110904 15:29:50< Aethaeryn> My point is, the 3DS isn't the same thing as an Android or iOS device.
20110904 15:30:02< vurtualruler98> yeah, but I got it for free, so
20110904 15:30:07< Aethaeryn> The 3DS is games first. The smartphone ecosystems, rather than being focused on phones, are actually focused on browsers and apps.
20110904 15:30:27< Aethaeryn> I rarely use mine as a phone.
20110904 15:30:31< vurtualruler98> yeah, browsers and apps and phones aren't exactly multipurpose
20110904 15:30:38< vurtualruler98> I don't get what people do with them, unless they don't have a real computer
20110904 15:30:50< Aethaeryn> My friends text, if they all had Android, they'd be able to just use Google Talk and wouldn't notice the UI difference (I do use Google Talk when they're on).
20110904 15:31:02< Aethaeryn> Voice phone calls on a phone? Just to my parents, really.
20110904 15:31:03< vurtualruler98> the only time I've used any is when I didn't have anything on hand at the moment, and the short time when my laptop had no battery in it
20110904 15:31:22< vurtualruler98> but seriously did you just say that phones can be 400 dollars
20110904 15:31:26-!- monochro2atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:31:32< Ivanovic> there is *one* huge difference between using one tool to do everything (the so called "smartphone") or using various tools like an mp3 player, a mobile console, a "dumb" phone, ...
20110904 15:31:33< vurtualruler98> I could build a portable desktop that runs crysis for that much
20110904 15:31:35< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Clearly you don't realize how convenient a pocket computer is.
20110904 15:31:47< vurtualruler98> I do know how convenient they are, but it's just... expensive.
20110904 15:31:51< Aethaeryn> Portability and batteries come in handy.
20110904 15:31:51< Ivanovic> if you use the "smartphone" for everything you are likely to run out of battery when you *really* need to use it as phone
20110904 15:31:54< vurtualruler98> I have the money, I just don't want to spend the money.
20110904 15:32:02< Aethaeryn> I'm on my laptop right now, even though my desktop is *so* much more powerful.
20110904 15:32:16< Aethaeryn> Why? I'd rather IRC chat sitting on my bed because I'm lazy on the weekends.
20110904 15:32:23< vurtualruler98> smartphones contain an emergency battery system that lets them 911-call even when the battery is dangerously low and the device may be permenantly damaged from running
20110904 15:32:35< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Disable all things, including mobile data, and only turn it on unless you need it.
20110904 15:32:37< Ivanovic> sure, listening to music, reading texts as well as gaming are non essential tasks, so if those are not possible due to the battery being flat ain't no problem
20110904 15:32:40< vurtualruler98> my bed(s) all have specific ways to set up multiple computers on
20110904 15:32:56< vurtualruler98> if all else fails, handcrank the phone
20110904 15:33:00< Ivanovic> but what if you just used the phone to listen to music and it turns itself off due to a low battery
20110904 15:33:16< Aethaeryn> If you charge it nightly, you never will have a problem.
20110904 15:33:19< Ivanovic> at that point you have to eg call for a mechanic because your car broke down or you have to call ...
20110904 15:33:28< Ivanovic> that is the *main* problem you can have to face
20110904 15:33:41< Aethaeryn> Unless you lose power for a week, like I did, due to the hurricane.
20110904 15:33:42< vurtualruler98> phone force-activate because phones have a system precisely to handle that?
20110904 15:33:45< Aethaeryn> Then you watch your battery.
20110904 15:33:52< vurtualruler98> Aethaeryn, handcrank.
20110904 15:33:54< vurtualruler98> seriously
20110904 15:34:17< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: tbh, I'm surprised there aren't (m)any phones that have solar charging.
20110904 15:34:23< Ivanovic> besides: using the phone for gaming sucks with "on screen buttons only"
20110904 15:34:38< vurtualruler98> the xperia herpaderpminecraft
20110904 15:34:39< Aethaeryn> If you had an emergency situation, I mean, you'd turn off the phone altogether, and put the solar panel in the sunlight, and get a few minutes of life.
20110904 15:35:01< vurtualruler98> phones have solar pane-oh
20110904 15:35:04< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: If I cared about gaming, I'd probably use dedicated gaming devices.
20110904 15:35:08< vurtualruler98> also you can get one of those honda generators
20110904 15:35:11< Aethaeryn> Smartphone games are more like "pass the time between busy schedules"
20110904 15:35:13< Ivanovic> my personal solution is to have a pandora for all "non phone buisness" like watching movies, gaming, ... as well as a "dumb" phone for sms and placing calls
20110904 15:35:26< Aethaeryn> Gaming devices are more like "omfg where did my time go, now my busy schedule is busier"
20110904 15:35:27< vurtualruler98> Ivanovic, why not a multibattery device?
20110904 15:35:38-!- mich- [~michele@host165-209-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110904 15:35:38< vurtualruler98> oh no, battery out, need to call pizza hut
20110904 15:35:50 * vurtualruler98 puts in another battery, or hits a phone-only switch, device comes to life
20110904 15:35:57< vurtualruler98> hi pizza hut I need 32 million half beef half nothing pizzas
20110904 15:36:09< vurtualruler98> because typing the /pizza command would take away from raid time
20110904 15:36:13< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: If you don't have an iPhone, you can buy a spare battery
20110904 15:36:22< vurtualruler98> gas-cheap and such those honda generators are
20110904 15:36:23< Aethaeryn> And swap 'em on trips.
20110904 15:36:48< Aethaeryn> It doesn't work for iPhones though unless you have a butterknife and a screw driver, or something along those lines
20110904 15:37:00< Ivanovic> personally i think that just having a plain dumb phone and some "other" tool is (for me) the best solution
20110904 15:37:21< vurtualruler98> jokes on you
20110904 15:37:28< vurtualruler98> augmentation is the 21st century way
20110904 15:37:31< vurtualruler98> low on power?
20110904 15:37:32< vurtualruler98> eat a hotdog
20110904 15:37:41< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Jokes on you. Never using a high-end smartphone device, complaining that people who do just don't "get it"
20110904 15:37:59< vurtualruler98> I don't say you don't get it
20110904 15:38:02< Aethaeryn> And that they must be overly rich stupid people or something, because *YOU* don't understand the need.
20110904 15:38:03< vurtualruler98> just that smartphones are silly
20110904 15:38:18< vurtualruler98> I am overly-rich and I know plenty of overly-rich stupid people, they all have smartphones
20110904 15:38:20< Aethaeryn> And since *YOU* couldn't possibly see the need for a smartphone, everyone else in the world must be an idiot for using one and liking one.
20110904 15:38:22< vurtualruler98> multiple smartphones and ipads
20110904 15:38:30< vurtualruler98> I genuinely try to come up with a way to excuse having one
20110904 15:38:32< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Exactly.
20110904 15:38:35< vurtualruler98> in all sorts of situations
20110904 15:38:36< Gambit> Thanks for seeing it our way.
20110904 15:38:37< Aethaeryn> Heh, most of the rich people I know have an iPod Touch and an Android smartphone.
20110904 15:38:40< Aethaeryn> Both ecosystems.
20110904 15:38:42< vurtualruler98> it becomes more and more contrived the farther I go on
20110904 15:39:15< vurtualruler98> how about a dumbphone, another dumbphone that can be used internationally, a smartphone that's never used as a phone, a dedicated tethering cellular hotspot, and an ipad
20110904 15:39:20< vurtualruler98> and also multiple laptops and netbooks
20110904 15:39:29-!- iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has quit [Excess Flood]
20110904 15:39:45< vurtualruler98> technically, the human body has an amazing level of redundancy and power system backup, you'd always be able to make low-power phone calls if you had a phone built in
20110904 15:39:51-!- iwaim [~iwaim@rasteenie.alib.jp] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:40:13< vurtualruler98> we already have emotion-state-reading cat ears
20110904 15:40:23< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Generally, for computer addicted people, they need a large, powerful device (desktop), a semi-portable device (laptop or netbook), and a pocket-sized device (smartphone)
20110904 15:40:37 * Gambit has no interest in the last one
20110904 15:40:41< Gambit> The first two sure.
20110904 15:40:43< vurtualruler98> I just have a laptop and a desktop so I don't have to dual-boot
20110904 15:40:54< Aethaeryn> You are not most people.
20110904 15:40:59< Aethaeryn> This is something that took me years to realize.
20110904 15:41:00< Aethaeryn> I'm odd.
20110904 15:41:01< vurtualruler98> yes, because I go and build robot arms
20110904 15:41:02-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 15:41:03< Gambit> But if my laptop won't fit where I'm going, then it's not anywhere where I could work anyway.
20110904 15:41:16< Gambit> And it's rather hard to work on those phones.
20110904 15:41:19< vurtualruler98> also an insane array of random devices that I intentionally point out are a waste of money
20110904 15:41:25< Aethaeryn> I'm a mathematics, computer science, philosophy triple major with a love of logic, programming, and learning. I have a really damn good memory. I don't like alcohol or most party situations. I enjoy an intellectual conversation.
20110904 15:41:27< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: hmm, works nicely for me: desktop, thinkpad 12", pandora, dumbphone for calls
20110904 15:41:29< Aethaeryn> I am not most people.
20110904 15:41:34< Aethaeryn> I can't judge "people" generally by looking internally.
20110904 15:41:38< vurtualruler98> Aethaeryn, you are most people
20110904 15:41:43< Aethaeryn> So why do other people do so?
20110904 15:41:44< vurtualruler98> going by reddit, you're approaching what is society's majority in the west
20110904 15:42:07< vurtualruler98> *random person who gets to hold the credit cards goes and buys device, never uses it*
20110904 15:42:12< vurtualruler98> "oh, hey, this has Wrecking Crew."
20110904 15:42:16-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 15:42:19< vurtualruler98> aaaaand that's why I have a 3DS.
20110904 15:42:23< Aethaeryn> ?
20110904 15:42:32< Aethaeryn> There are days when I just need a Browser
20110904 15:42:38< vurtualruler98> the 3ds has one actually!
20110904 15:42:41< Aethaeryn> And never touch my desktop/laptop because my smartphone is more convenient.
20110904 15:42:42< vurtualruler98> it's okay.
20110904 15:42:53< Aethaeryn> As in, there are days when my Nexus One is my only computer.
20110904 15:42:57< Aethaeryn> I can even ssh into my server and check IRC
20110904 15:43:04< Aethaeryn> Very handy in odd situations, like travel or power outages.
20110904 15:43:15< vurtualruler98> power outages here aren't a problem
20110904 15:43:22< Aethaeryn> As long as I don't need to program or type quickly, consumer-oriented devices are okay.
20110904 15:43:26< vurtualruler98> thirty bajillion generators that seem to come out of the walls
20110904 15:43:28< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Power outages in Maryland aren't a problem either.
20110904 15:43:41< Aethaeryn> We had a once-in-a-decade hurricane knock out 2/3 of the people's power.
20110904 15:43:41< vurtualruler98> like, ok, the house has no power, generator this or generator that?
20110904 15:43:46< Aethaeryn> And Baltimore is a port city.
20110904 15:43:49< Aethaeryn> aka near water
20110904 15:43:59< Aethaeryn> usually hurricanes only go up to about North Carolina
20110904 15:44:07< vurtualruler98> I got hit by a hurricane once
20110904 15:44:11< vurtualruler98> I'm in Illinois.
20110904 15:44:11< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Generator? Really?
20110904 15:44:14< vurtualruler98> it was just like a big storm at that point
20110904 15:44:16< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Are you that out of touch with reality?
20110904 15:44:26< vurtualruler98> two generators in this vehicle, plus a louder generator, plus this has a generator... generators... generators.
20110904 15:44:33< Aethaeryn> Most people can't afford to pay for a generator if they lose power once a year, usually for about a day tops.
20110904 15:44:42< vurtualruler98> we lost power way more than that here
20110904 15:45:03< Aethaeryn> Right. So five days of no power is a major anomoly for my region.
20110904 15:45:09< vurtualruler98> uh
20110904 15:45:14< vurtualruler98> we had a whole week out before
20110904 15:45:15< Aethaeryn> Again, you exhibit congitive biases of assuming others are in similar situations.
20110904 15:45:16< Ivanovic> i'm in germany and got to ask: what are power outages?
20110904 15:45:20< Ivanovic> do they *really* happen?
20110904 15:45:25< Ivanovic> and: what are hurricanes?
20110904 15:45:27< Ivanovic> ^^
20110904 15:45:31< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Five days was near the highest for people I know in my area. I think one was out six on IRC.
20110904 15:45:41< vurtualruler98> Ivanovic, yeah, extreme storms that destroy your cities end up causing a random cable to break
20110904 15:45:44< Aethaeryn> So most people were up in 3 or so days.
20110904 15:45:44< vurtualruler98> some random guy runs out and plugs it back ni
20110904 15:45:51< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: America can get extreme weather.
20110904 15:46:04< Ivanovic> vurtualruler98: ahhhh, okay
20110904 15:46:13< Aethaeryn> The east coast is usually pretty mild. Sometimes a hurricane or a blizzard.
20110904 15:46:17< Aethaeryn> Some places are rather extreme.
20110904 15:46:18< vurtualruler98> hurricanse are like singular tornadoes that destroy things
20110904 15:46:24< Gambit> We really should run our cables underground.
20110904 15:46:38< vurtualruler98> let's go dig some herpderp tunnel
20110904 15:46:41< vurtualruler98> BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM
20110904 15:46:43< Aethaeryn> Hurricanes = wind + flooding over massive areas
20110904 15:47:04< vurtualruler98> a hurricane is if you took an Illinois thunderstorm TO THE MAX and then took a tornado from not Illinois, and stuck the former on the latter
20110904 15:47:08< Aethaeryn> Tornadoes are stronger in wind, but they'll hit maybe a handful of houses and go away. Hurricanes have strong wind over everything.
20110904 15:47:12< vurtualruler98> and then added more storm
20110904 15:47:16< Aethaeryn> Hurricanes can spawn tornados
20110904 15:47:22< vurtualruler98> yeah that's the scary part
20110904 15:47:33< Aethaeryn> So tornados, if you get hit you're unlucky.
20110904 15:47:38< Aethaeryn> Hurricanes, if you don't get hit, you're lucky.
20110904 15:47:45< Ivanovic> in germany most cables are run underground
20110904 15:47:47< Aethaeryn> Usually just the power lines though.
20110904 15:47:50< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: Hah.
20110904 15:47:51< Ivanovic> minus the "long distance" onces
20110904 15:47:55< Ivanovic> s/onces/ones
20110904 15:47:58< vurtualruler98> it's usually random short outages plus the occasional overnight outage(generator go), then the rarer 2-3 day ones, and the rarerer week ones.
20110904 15:48:06< Gambit> Also if every town had a wind farm...
20110904 15:48:09< Gambit> Just saying.
20110904 15:48:22< Gambit> Stupid politicians.
20110904 15:48:23< vurtualruler98> if Illinois had a wind farm thet wind farm would be a giant spinning sawblade that has nothing to hit
20110904 15:48:27< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I don't think you understand. Our utility companies will charge more than yours, and get away with as little service as possible.
20110904 15:48:38< vurtualruler98> it'd be like cows stampeding without anywhere to go, except the reverse
20110904 15:48:41< vurtualruler98> so... cows stampeding over an open field
20110904 15:48:50< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: there is one *major* difference between germany and the US
20110904 15:48:53< Ivanovic> the distances
20110904 15:48:54< Gambit> All of our electric companies are local monopolies.
20110904 15:48:58< vurtualruler98> BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF MILES
20110904 15:49:00< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: They understand how things really work in their position. You can't really switch a utilities company just because they're overcharging and underproviding. Who are you going to go to?
20110904 15:49:02< Gambit> Same for telco companies.
20110904 15:49:07< Ivanovic> those distances make a train network as we got in germany impossible in the US
20110904 15:49:08< Aethaeryn> Ivanovic: I'm on the east coast.
20110904 15:49:11< Aethaeryn> Very dense.
20110904 15:49:12< vurtualruler98> I can see for miiles and miiiiles, I can see for miiles and miiles, I can see for miiiles and miiiiles and miiiles and miiiles and miiiles
20110904 15:49:22< Aethaeryn> And my house uses an above-ground powerline.
20110904 15:49:27< vurtualruler98> The US has the best train network ever.
20110904 15:49:29< Aethaeryn> to a pole that used to knock out power all the time
20110904 15:49:34< vurtualruler98> it's immense and beautiful and then we invented the plane
20110904 15:49:35< vurtualruler98> "aww"
20110904 15:49:53< Ivanovic> vurtualruler98: honestly, the train network in the US is, uhm, problematic
20110904 15:49:58< vurtualruler98> what's the problem
20110904 15:50:00< vurtualruler98> besides being huuuuge
20110904 15:50:04< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: planes can give beautiful views.
20110904 15:50:13< vurtualruler98> I do not like flying in planes
20110904 15:50:14-!- Cookie [~quassel@unaffiliated/cookiee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 15:50:15< Ivanovic> the problem is to actually *reach* some place
20110904 15:50:19< vurtualruler98> flying a plane annoys me less than flying in a plane
20110904 15:50:30< Aethaeryn> .....
20110904 15:50:33< vurtualruler98> it fostered a lot of growth and is still used for mile-long-and-then-some mega-transport systems and short-range freight
20110904 15:50:38< vurtualruler98> I don't trust pilots.
20110904 15:50:58< Aethaeryn> I don't think you understand the situations the average American faces.
20110904 15:51:01< vurtualruler98> and how everyone thinks planes are perfect systems that magically just float through the air
20110904 15:51:08< Aethaeryn> Oh yeah, sure, I'm going to buy a small airplane and get my pilot's license to visit Vancouver...
20110904 15:51:11< Aethaeryn> Okay.
20110904 15:51:16< vurtualruler98> ...I individually do not trust planes.
20110904 15:51:20< vurtualruler98> ......this is not an everyone thing.
20110904 15:51:26< Aethaeryn> Statistically, planes are safer.
20110904 15:51:33< Aethaeryn> It's a cognitive bias that makes people think they're not safer.
20110904 15:51:40< vurtualruler98> that's completely made up
20110904 15:51:46< Aethaeryn> Plane crashes are larger events because they carry more people.
20110904 15:51:48< vurtualruler98> planes are just... insane
20110904 15:51:56< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: statistics are, ehm, not always correct
20110904 15:51:59< Aethaeryn> Plane crashes make the news. Average car crashes don't.
20110904 15:52:10< Aethaeryn> Plus, planes are flown by professionals (mostly).
20110904 15:52:16< Aethaeryn> Cars are mostly driven by dangerous psycho idiots.
20110904 15:52:20< vurtualruler98> they have all these absurd systems that fail trivially, a tire on a car being damaged means the car preforms less well
20110904 15:52:26< Ivanovic> Aethaeryn: one main difference is that in stats people dying *during* a trip are counted too
20110904 15:52:26< Aethaeryn> Who think 40 in a 30 isn't good enough so I have to pull over to let them pass me
20110904 15:52:31< Aethaeryn> So they can go something like 55 or 60 in a 30
20110904 15:52:31< vurtualruler98> the entire power system of an RV failing is just a bit of drifting and a stop
20110904 15:52:43< vurtualruler98> what do you think pilots are
20110904 15:52:48< vurtualruler98> sane, reasonable gentlemen of leisure?
20110904 15:52:51< Ivanovic> so "death by train" (in stats) are also the old persons that die of a heart attack
20110904 15:52:56< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: On general, more sane than the average American.
20110904 15:52:59< Ivanovic> those people are highly unlikely to ever board a plane
20110904 15:53:01< Aethaeryn> Every American has a car.
20110904 15:53:07< Aethaeryn> Even those who do drugs before driving.
20110904 15:53:11< vurtualruler98> hardly
20110904 15:53:16< vurtualruler98> have you ever seen Independence Day?
20110904 15:53:19< Gambit> [09:53:01] <Aethaeryn> Every American has a car.
20110904 15:53:19< Aethaeryn> At least when pilots drink before flying they make the news and get fired.
20110904 15:53:20< Gambit> ROFL
20110904 15:53:22< vurtualruler98> the redneck guy who dusts crops?
20110904 15:53:27< Gambit> Aethaeryn: Typical republican statement :P
20110904 15:53:32< Ivanovic> and yeah, those die in normal "day to day" traffic, too
20110904 15:53:35< Aethaeryn> Gambit: blargh you
20110904 15:53:35< Gambit> Not believing in "the poor".
20110904 15:53:38< Gambit> :P
20110904 15:53:38< vurtualruler98> seriously though
20110904 15:53:48< Gambit> Did you know the "poor" have microwaves now?
20110904 15:53:49< vurtualruler98> planes take an immense amount of effort to keep in check
20110904 15:53:50< Gambit> Seriously.
20110904 15:53:52< Ivanovic> those "system A is more secure than system B" comparisons actually suck
20110904 15:53:53< vurtualruler98> not just the plane machine, but... the regulations
20110904 15:53:54< Aethaeryn> Gambit: The poor in America have better cares than my family does.
20110904 15:53:55< vurtualruler98> there's loads of them
20110904 15:54:00< Aethaeryn> *cars
20110904 15:54:12< Aethaeryn> Gambit: They have all sorts of fancy cars, then live in an apartment or townhouse rental.
20110904 15:54:25< Aethaeryn> There's very few legitimately poor people, but they do exist.
20110904 15:54:33< Aethaeryn> "Everyone" having a car is called an exaggeration. I don't have a car.
20110904 15:54:44< vurtualruler98> anyways going back to something I never got to paste:
20110904 15:54:50< Aethaeryn> But in America, car ownership is more culturally important (and more necessary due to the transportation system) than in almost any other country.
20110904 15:54:59< vurtualruler98> actually I had to argue with myself for ages about buying a desktop that was new enough to run half-life 2 episode two(yeah), and then argued for ages about the cost of buying a cheapo laptop
20110904 15:55:19< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Typical liberal though. Thinking "libertarians" are "Republican"
20110904 15:55:21< vurtualruler98> then that thing where I never actually do the buying of things results in people buying way expensive things
20110904 15:55:26< Gambit> Aethaeryn: I know. The "poor" are so spoiled. 75% of them have refrigerators. They can keep their food from spoiling!
20110904 15:55:30< vurtualruler98> Typical #wesnoth thing
20110904 15:55:34< vurtualruler98> siding with political groups
20110904 15:55:35< Gambit> 50% of them have health insurance now.
20110904 15:55:40< Gambit> They're not even dying in the streets like they used to!
20110904 15:55:47< Gambit> It's ridiculous.
20110904 15:55:50-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110904 15:55:58< vurtualruler98> the poor are going from the peasants with their ragged robes, to people with the bare essentials
20110904 15:56:19< Gambit> vurtualruler98: And we cannot have that.
20110904 15:56:27< Aethaeryn> If by bare essentials you mean computer, smartphone, Internet, television, electricity, refridgerator, microwave, car, etc.
20110904 15:56:30< vurtualruler98> the best way to put it is that /r/secondworldproblems will seem contrived and ridiculous to your average poor person
20110904 15:56:33< Gambit> We must cut all of our social programs immediately.
20110904 15:56:38< Aethaeryn> Usually two cars actually. One they drive to work and one they pimp up for the weekends.
20110904 15:56:47< Aethaeryn> At least in my area, a lot of poor people are poor because they spend all their money.
20110904 15:56:54< vurtualruler98> Aethaeryn, not being shot at, living safely, having basic necessities literally required to survive
20110904 15:56:55< vurtualruler98> and then some
20110904 15:57:04< vurtualruler98> there should be some revised poorness system
20110904 15:57:29< vurtualruler98> where two people who are equally well-off, except but one buys a phone, doesn't result in the latter being poorer
20110904 15:57:32< Aethaeryn> My point is, American poor (i.e. those classified as poor) in general live better than the middle class in poor countries.
20110904 15:57:36< vurtualruler98> then see if the latter ends up poorer anyways
20110904 15:57:40< Aethaeryn> In some places, they don't have reliable electricity.
20110904 15:58:08< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: I don't think you understand the car subculture.
20110904 15:58:16< vurtualruler98> Stop calling me a retard.
20110904 15:58:17< Aethaeryn> Plenty of lower middle class to poor people have nice cars.
20110904 15:58:19< vurtualruler98> You do this over and over.
20110904 15:58:21< Aethaeryn> And cars are really expensive.
20110904 15:58:34< Aethaeryn> If they had point A to point B machines, they'd be solidly middle class through about a decade of hard work.
20110904 15:58:38< vurtualruler98> Again and again and again and again and again for no real reason, you're growing increasingly out of touch with what everyone else is saying
20110904 15:58:38< Aethaeryn> Drugs can also cause poverty.
20110904 15:58:52< Aethaeryn> vurtualruler98: Hey, guess what, if you antagonize people, they'll tend to antagonize back.
20110904 15:58:53< vurtualruler98> if you keep going you might not be able to talk to anyone anymore, you'll just be stuck talking to yourself, because you can't understand anyone!
20110904 15:59:08< vurtualruler98> I haven't even been saying anything to you!
20110904 15:59:44< vurtualruler98> it's like if we all were at a bar, and I was making jokes with someone, then you ran over and started being melvin, except then your melvining doesn't make any sense, and you thought I was insulting you.
20110904 15:59:54< vurtualruler98> you are error.
20110904 16:00:33< Gambit> vurtualruler98: What I love is that he just said all of that stuff like it was a bad thing.
20110904 16:00:45< Gambit> The poor should be truly miserable.
20110904 16:00:50< Gambit> We should crush them into the dirt.
20110904 16:01:01< Aethaeryn> Gambit: My point is that they're not "poor" by any definition.
20110904 16:01:06< Aethaeryn> Except relative to other Americans.
20110904 16:01:11 * vurtualruler98 pours poor people on Aethaeryn
20110904 16:01:11< Gambit> They shouldn't have cars and refrigerators.
20110904 16:01:14< Aethaeryn> Global poverty is a problem.
20110904 16:01:16 * vurtualruler98 pours poor people on your pores
20110904 16:01:17< Gambit> Aethaeryn: And that's a sign of American exceptionalism.
20110904 16:01:22< Gambit> Which you should love.
20110904 16:01:28< Aethaeryn> Calling a lot of American poor as poor is insulting the billion starving people right now.
20110904 16:01:34< Aethaeryn> Or the people who don't have access to clean water, electricity, etc.
20110904 16:01:39< Aethaeryn> Those people are poor.
20110904 16:01:40< vurtualruler98> now that I have poured poor people on your pores, your pores are poor, because the poured poor people pored into your pores with poorness!
20110904 16:01:48< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Stop being so focused on one country.
20110904 16:01:56< Aethaeryn> This is an international IRC channel.
20110904 16:02:11< vurtualruler98> wait
20110904 16:02:15< vurtualruler98> Aethaeryn
20110904 16:02:21< vurtualruler98> weren't you just assuming we were talking about Americans?
20110904 16:02:35< Aethaeryn> 09:55:26 < Gambit> Aethaeryn: I know. The "poor" are so spoiled. 75% of them have refrigerators. They can keep their food from spoiling!
20110904 16:02:38< vurtualruler98> also, gambit's been parodying things for a while
20110904 16:02:41< Aethaeryn> Pretty sure that's an American metric.
20110904 16:02:53< vurtualruler98> get a sense of humor before the stick up there makes you even more constipated
20110904 16:03:01< vurtualruler98> seriously you... you can't even talk to people at all at this point.
20110904 16:03:21< Aethaeryn> People don't take things seriously.
20110904 16:03:36< vurtualruler98> that doesn't even make sense here
20110904 16:04:41-!- Filar [~Mussious@dfi196.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110904 16:05:15-!- horon [~horon@nttkyo103205.tkyo.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
20110904 16:07:07-!- Panda_ [~panda@yer91-5-88-185-82-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 16:07:59-!- knotwork [~markm@142.177.232.252] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 16:07:59-!- knotwork [~markm@142.177.232.252] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 16:07:59-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 16:08:00< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Even talking of relative poverty, there are two types of poor people. Those who are there by their own fault and those who were born into it or otherwise had no choice.
20110904 16:08:39< Gambit> Oh definitely. The poor choose to be poor.
20110904 16:08:43< Aethaeryn> The former group should receive mandatory psychological and/or drug and/or alcohol or w/e else treatment to receive aid by the government, if it's the government's role to give them handouts.
20110904 16:08:44< Gambit> Just like the homosexuals.
20110904 16:08:55< Gambit> I know Aethaeryn. I know.
20110904 16:09:01< Gambit> Everything is a choice.
20110904 16:09:15< Aethaeryn> To treat the "poor" like a monolithic entity doesn't help anyone.
20110904 16:09:29< Gambit> Like all these lazy unemployed people.
20110904 16:09:35< Gambit> Leeching off the unemployment system.
20110904 16:09:48< Gambit> They had jobs before the economy tanked? What? No they're just lazy.
20110904 16:09:50< Aethaeryn> Well, yeah, I did have an aunt that leached off of the unemployment system.
20110904 16:10:32< Aethaeryn> Give aid to bad people, and there's less money to people who are poor because of a handicap or some other sort of disadvantage they didn't choose.
20110904 16:10:58< Aethaeryn> Plus, aid often builds dependency.
20110904 16:11:06< Aethaeryn> Anyone who is able-bodied and able-minded *should* work.
20110904 16:11:22< Gambit> Right. There's jobs available for everyone.
20110904 16:11:36< Gambit> The high unemployment is just because people are too lazy to take them.
20110904 16:11:48< Gambit> I know Aethaeryn. Bill Orielly already told me everything you're saying.
20110904 16:11:53< Aethaeryn> The high unemployment is due to all sorts of things.
20110904 16:12:16< Aethaeryn> And PLEASE STOP FUCKING GROUPING ALL ECONOMIC LIBERALS IN ONE CATEGORY WITH THOSE DOUCHEBAG WARMONGERING MONEY-WASTING NEOCONS 
20110904 16:12:34< Gambit> Stop echoing 80% of their talking points.
20110904 16:12:48< Aethaeryn> Maybe they just bastardize libertarian talking points?
20110904 16:12:55< Aethaeryn> What if I called you a Marxist for being vaguely left?
20110904 16:12:58< Aethaeryn> They're all the same, right?
20110904 16:13:03< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Commie.
20110904 16:13:05< Gambit> Yes I know.
20110904 16:13:10< Gambit> Glenn Beck already told me this too.
20110904 16:13:14< Aethaeryn> Stop echoing the Karl Marx talking point of giving aid to the poor
20110904 16:13:51< Aethaeryn> Because us capitalists are greedy pigs
20110904 16:13:55< Aethaeryn> We don't believe in charity
20110904 16:14:27< Aethaeryn> We definitely aren't against an overintrusive government. We're just against losing some of our extra spending money going to help those damn poor people.
20110904 16:14:39< Aethaeryn> I can't build my wall of iPads if it goes to poor people to help them eat or go to school, right?
20110904 16:14:51< Aethaeryn> Because I'm certainly a millionaire for being for smaller government. And a republican fascist.
20110904 16:14:58< Aethaeryn> Yes, simultaneously for smaller government and a fascist.
20110904 16:15:25< Gambit> You are against them giving up their third houses, tenth cars, and third yachts so that others can be less hungry and sick.
20110904 16:15:30< Aethaeryn> So yeah, go ahead and set some precedents. I'm sure the government will never use its overexpanded power for evil when someone else takes power and the political tides change.
20110904 16:15:40< Aethaeryn> They'd never shut down people just for being against them politically. Not in America.
20110904 16:15:52< Gambit> They can have two yachts and that's just fine.
20110904 16:15:55< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Right, you know some of the unemployment? The yacht manufacturers laying people off :-P
20110904 16:16:55< Aethaeryn> Gambit: The difference between a libertarian and a Republican is that a Republican pays lip service to the "small government" and "economic liberal" principles, but in practice is just a mild Democrat who's against a handful of things (environmental legislation, some welfare programs, tax increases)
20110904 16:17:34< Aethaeryn> So yes, a Republican and a libertarian can on occassion use similar rhetoric. It's just that the former will completely ignore the rhetoric once in government.
20110904 16:18:12< Aethaeryn> The former will also take logically contradictory viewpoints just to gain votes. "The government should be smaller. We should ban X, Y, Z and start another decade-long war."
20110904 16:18:21< Gambit> There is no unemployment from yacht manufacturers right now
20110904 16:18:30< Gambit> CEO pay has gone up 27% over the past decade on average
20110904 16:18:40< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Because companies have gotten larger.
20110904 16:18:48< Gambit> Companies are spending more on their CEOs than on taxes
20110904 16:18:53< Aethaeryn> Why? Because the government sets up a system that only big business can benefit from.
20110904 16:18:56< Gambit> They're spending more on lobbying and bribery than on taxes
20110904 16:19:00< Aethaeryn> Small business CEOs don't make billions.
20110904 16:19:05< Aethaeryn> right.
20110904 16:19:09< Aethaeryn> Lobbying the GOVERNMENT
20110904 16:19:09< Gambit> The unemployment is from cutting those taxes and then cutting spending to pay for it
20110904 16:19:13< Aethaeryn> that shouldn't have the ROLE in the first place
20110904 16:19:22< Aethaeryn> If the government didn't have all the power it has, then they wouldn't lobby it.
20110904 16:19:35< Aethaeryn> And thus wouldn't set up systems that are anticompetitive and solidify some businesses at the expense of others.
20110904 16:19:54< Aethaeryn> Big government causes big business causes big government, et cetera.
20110904 16:19:57< Aethaeryn> Feedback loop.
20110904 16:20:11< Aethaeryn> In a truly libertarian society, there'd probably be a hard limit on business sizes beyond which it would be impractical to grow.
20110904 16:20:33< Aethaeryn> Gambit: So please don't mix up libertarians with people-who-pretend-to-be-economic-liberals-but-who-are-just-pro-big-business
20110904 16:21:01< Aethaeryn> I'm intelligent enough to tell the difference between a social democrat, a socialist, a communist, an anarchist, etc.
20110904 16:22:46< Aethaeryn> Differences between a Republican and a libertarian: (1) no farm subsidies, (2) no foreign wars, (3) gay marriage left to the states instead of being banned, (4) abortion left to the states instead of being banned, (5) gambling left to the states instead of being banned, (6) drugs motherblarghing legalized, etc.
20110904 16:23:00< Gambit> I actually consider myself a conservative circa a long time ago.
20110904 16:23:14< Aethaeryn> Also, no DMCA
20110904 16:23:15< Gambit> We're just soooooo far up corporations asses now that I look liberal.
20110904 16:23:18< Aethaeryn> And no patents.
20110904 16:23:31< Aethaeryn> Gambit: You don't see that the corporations control the government because the government controls the corporations?
20110904 16:23:37< Gambit> I have to keep arguing the liberal position because the alternative is crazy.
20110904 16:24:01< Aethaeryn> The government has regulatory power over the corporations to such a high degree, that it's cheaper to do the legal route than to innovate as a business.
20110904 16:24:11< Aethaeryn> So the businesses go to the government to rig the system because the government controls "the system"
20110904 16:24:22< Aethaeryn> (by legal route, I mean lawyers)
20110904 16:25:06< Aethaeryn> Lawyers, lobbyists, regulations, patents, copyrights, and so on, will all pick business winners and losers. Of course if you give government such large powers the biggest busineses will rig all of these things in their favor.
20110904 16:25:33< Aethaeryn> That's why you have unemployment. Because most employment is from the small companies, which are being systematically blarghed by the gov't and big business combined.
20110904 16:28:07< Aethaeryn> Why do you pay so much for Internet? Why is net neutrality "necessary"? Because the government grants local monopolies who then abuse their power to maximize profit.
20110904 16:28:17< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Why don't you see that the government is causing the problem, not solving it?
20110904 16:28:41< Aethaeryn> And they'll never be able to solve it because the handful of big corporations control the last point of failure, the media. No one will be elected with your platform.
20110904 16:28:47< Gambit> Certainly the past two administrations have caused the problems.
20110904 16:28:54< Gambit> The Clinton administration though...
20110904 16:31:47< fabi> I am not from the US but my opinion is that the Reagon administration started to make mistakes in that direction. Not that the following ones did it any better.
20110904 16:31:49< Aethaeryn> The Clinton administration caused a gigantic bubble that directly or indirectly lead to all of the 2000's economic crises in the US thus far.
20110904 16:32:09< Aethaeryn> Unless you believe the government has no control over the economy, in which case you can't have it both ways and claim the good but not the bad.
20110904 16:32:40< Aethaeryn> fabi: Imo, it goes back a bit earlier to the Nixon administration
20110904 16:32:48< Aethaeryn> Massive expansions of presidential power.
20110904 16:32:53< fabi> Yes
20110904 16:33:02< Aethaeryn> Then when Nixon fell, he had to do it indirectly.
20110904 16:33:07< Aethaeryn> Well, they had to do it indirectly.
20110904 16:33:31< Aethaeryn> The president himself couldn't have power, but unelected, appointed executive branch agencies did grow.
20110904 16:34:32< Aethaeryn> So imo, even though the president's own power peaked under Nixon, the rest of the executive branch (unelected) kept growing.
20110904 16:34:51< Aethaeryn> A lot of the things under the executive branch's bureaucracy should probably belong to Congress.
20110904 16:35:23< Aethaeryn> When you have unelected positions with massive regulatory power that can pick winners and losers, you get easy lobbying targets.
20110904 16:35:50< Aethaeryn> And you wind up with a revolving door system, where people go in business, are hired as "experts" in the field to regulate, then go back into business after favorable rulings for massive salary raises.
20110904 16:36:11< Gambit> Yay a spot we can agree on.
20110904 16:36:21< Gambit> Though we disagree on the solution.
20110904 16:36:43< Aethaeryn> My solution is to remove the executive bureaucracy and start from scratch, with the power going back to Congress and the states.
20110904 16:36:51< Aethaeryn> Your solution is to reform the executive bureaucracy.
20110904 16:37:47< Aethaeryn> I believe power should be as distributed as possible so you don't have a single point of failure. In a sense, this corruption was inevitable because it was too profitable for everyone involved to be corrupt or to corrupt.
20110904 16:39:20< Aethaeryn> At best, the well-intentioned people get a generation or so before those who are self-interested will get into the system realizing the power it has. Having many systems rather than one delays this.
20110904 16:39:24< Aethaeryn> Imo.
20110904 16:40:20< Aethaeryn> The simplest way to do this in the United States system is probably something along the lines of "states' rights", though not how it was traditionally used or how Republicans use it today.
20110904 16:41:04< Gambit> It is unfortunate that that term is poison now.
20110904 16:41:05< Aethaeryn> The *one* issue with states' rights, imo, is if there are still pockets of racism that could get a majority in some Southern state.
20110904 16:41:21< Aethaeryn> Since states' rights *was* from about 1870 to 1960 used to justify racism.
20110904 16:41:42< Aethaeryn> I guess the solution would be states' rights on all except "civil rights", but then the lobbyists would make all sorts of extra things civil rights.
20110904 16:41:43< Gambit> It's not just racism.
20110904 16:41:46< Gambit> Any kind of bigotry.
20110904 16:41:50< Gambit> Or any form of theocracy
20110904 16:42:15< Aethaeryn> Gambit: The great thing about the US is that if one state fucks up, all the jobs and all the people can move freely to another state.
20110904 16:42:25< Aethaeryn> I think I'd rather have a handful of states go to hell than the whole country.
20110904 16:42:30< Aethaeryn> If that's the optimal solution.
20110904 16:42:41< Aethaeryn> Better to move states than to move countries.
20110904 16:44:42< Aethaeryn> The only issue I can see is that the most economically successful states going forward under this system are probably also going to be the worst in terms of "race" (a term I don't even like imo)
20110904 16:45:01-!- PetePorty [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 16:45:10< Aethaeryn> Economic and population trends have been moving from the northeast to the south
20110904 16:45:32< Aethaeryn> aka. they finally recovered from the civil war ;-)
20110904 16:46:03< Aethaeryn> American politics would have been so much simpler had slavery never existed.
20110904 16:46:11< Aethaeryn> Bastards messed things up for everyone.
20110904 16:48:52< Aethaeryn> Africans would have immigrated voluntarily at some point in American history, but they wouldn't have faced anywhere near the level of racism they faced.
20110904 16:54:58< Aethaeryn> Meh. Every time politics has a chance to work, people have to come and ruin it.
20110904 16:55:06< Aethaeryn> Gambit: I know the solution.
20110904 16:55:15< Aethaeryn> Gambit: We need a country with 0 citizens.
20110904 16:55:56< Gambit> Fake an alien invasion, thereby making the "other" non-human and getting rid of all biases against other humans.
20110904 16:58:04-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 16:58:06< Aethaeryn> ooooh
20110904 16:58:20< Aethaeryn> Gambit: We can hire Disney-Pixar to simulate alien overloards that conquer Earth.
20110904 16:58:38< Aethaeryn> We can pretend they have the firepower to destroy Earth. Uncorruptable government because no one will try to corrupt them.
20110904 17:11:47< Aethaeryn> Gambit: When the humans rise up to destroy the alien overlords, that'll be the only moment of unity ever. Take plenty of souveniers
20110904 17:14:17< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Also "states rights" is dead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_Rights_Gist
20110904 17:19:26-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:23:48-!- grzywacz [~grzywacz@wesnoth/developer/grzywacz] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:26:48-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:29:18-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p4FDEBF2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:29:18-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p4FDEBF2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 17:29:18-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:29:32-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 17:29:49-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p4FDEBF2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:29:49-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@p4FDEBF2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 17:29:49-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:45:04-!- Sarcasm [~user@101.18.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110904 17:46:39-!- monochro2atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20110904 17:46:44-!- StiX [~StiX@546B0024.cm-12-4a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:47:39-!- Sarcasm [~user@101.18.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 17:47:51-!- monochromatic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 18:06:59-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-34-55-150.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 18:27:54< Gambit> Aethaeryn: We must create a new party. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/04/evolution-climate-republicans-president?CMP=twt_gu
20110904 18:28:10< Gambit> Republicans can split into three groups instead of just two.
20110904 18:28:32< Gambit> We can have the corporate robots, the tea baggers, and the Sane Guys™ (You, John Huntsman, and I)
20110904 18:29:02< Gambit> And maybe Ron Paul if he agrees to read a science book.
20110904 18:29:08-!- KaKiLa [~juanpi@78-3-20-146.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20110904 18:29:08< Gambit> He has at least admitted that his ignorance is willing.
20110904 18:29:25< Gambit> He doesn't want to know more about science because it's not his job or something like that.
20110904 18:30:36< Aethaeryn> Gambit: Essentially, he doesn't want to lecture people on science, because then he'll lose his rural South political office.
20110904 18:30:42< Aethaeryn> Know your constituents.
20110904 18:31:12< Gambit> What a shame.
20110904 18:31:20< Aethaeryn> I'm being somewhat sarcastic
20110904 18:31:26< Aethaeryn> But I wouldn't be surprised if that's somewhat true.
20110904 18:40:19< vurtualruler98> Gambit
20110904 18:40:24< vurtualruler98> start explaining concepts in a crazy simple way
20110904 18:40:27< vurtualruler98> and then make him go crazy
20110904 18:40:45-!- NightWolf- [NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has quit [Quit: [13:22:21] <S[scoRpion]aFk> boah red nich immer so scheisse daher! Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! Wenns keinen was angeht gehts keinen was an, und wenns auf der hp stehen würde]
20110904 18:40:58< Gambit> That's a long quit message :s
20110904 18:41:11< Gambit> janebot: !translate boah red nich immer so scheisse daher! Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! Wenns keinen was angeht gehts keinen was an, und wenns auf der hp stehen würde
20110904 18:41:12< janebot> Gambit: de to en: boah red NICH always so shit! What you ned terms let you easily deinne Drecksgriffln it, and try to portray us more stupid! If no concerns what is nobody&#39;s business, and when it would be on the hp
20110904 18:43:12< Aethaeryn> Gambit: not a very good translation
20110904 18:43:26< Aethaeryn> I hypothesize that it wasn't written in flawless German.
20110904 18:44:52-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has quit [Quit: deekay]
20110904 18:48:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 19:24:40-!- Filar [~Mussious@dfi196.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 19:36:21< vurtualruler98> I wonder if anyone's done a wesnoth mod for SC2
20110904 19:36:24< vurtualruler98> someone probably did
20110904 19:37:01-!- Mkaysi [~Mkaysi@gateway/tor-sasl/mkaysi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 19:37:18< Crendgrim> vurtualruler98: I recently saw some "WesCraft" on youtube
20110904 19:38:25< vurtualruler98> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMQJZfpLN7s found it
20110904 19:39:31< Gambit> Now I want to see the reverse.
20110904 19:40:05< vurtualruler98> copyright infringement!
20110904 19:40:12< vurtualruler98> or that's what we always get told
20110904 19:40:25< vurtualruler98> someone sprite marines, or I can pull the .dds files for their icon
20110904 19:41:20< vurtualruler98> and then we can have GUYS MY MARINE MISSED ALL HIS ATTACKS
20110904 19:42:12< Gambit> A generic space game.
20110904 19:42:15< vurtualruler98> you could probably quickly math the attack periods by dividing by some arbitrary number to get the amount of attacks someone gets, then steal the life+damage values, and movespeeds
20110904 19:42:17-!- noy_ [~Noy@74.198.151.114] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 19:42:17-!- noy_ [~Noy@74.198.151.114] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 19:42:17-!- noy_ [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 19:42:25< vurtualruler98> Gambit, or our own setting
20110904 19:43:01 * Gambit making civ-like in Wesnoth
20110904 19:43:08< Gambit> vurtualruler98: Have 1.9.8 or trunk and want to play?
20110904 19:43:14< vurtualruler98> no
20110904 19:43:18< Gambit> Sad.
20110904 19:43:21< vurtualruler98> humans in disarray wearing bulky armor, mildly fanatical advanced aliens, and then other aliens that spread around everywhere
20110904 19:43:25< vurtualruler98> there is more than one setting like this
20110904 19:43:39< vurtualruler98> we could do it more Starcrafty, or just call it Wesnoth 40k, and it can be Wesnoth IN SPACE
20110904 19:44:14< vurtualruler98> it makes sense, since Warhammer 40k is futuristic Warhammer.
20110904 19:44:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110904 19:44:24-!- noy_ is now known as noy
20110904 19:44:29< vurtualruler98> "Wesnoth 40k? Wesnoth+40k?" "It's a clone of starcraft."
20110904 19:45:36< vurtualruler98> Wesnoth hasn't done arbitrary-size units yet, right Gambit?
20110904 19:45:40< vurtualruler98> Good thing SCII already scales down everything
20110904 19:45:58< Gambit> Multihex units still remain a holy grail for UMC devs.
20110904 19:46:09< vurtualruler98> 1. make big sprite and draw it
20110904 19:46:17< vurtualruler98> 2. somehow deny anyone from doing anything with the others
20110904 19:46:27< vurtualruler98> 3. I AM THOR
20110904 19:49:48< vurtualruler98> 4. make a billion units lining the other unit's edges, which magically transfer damage they take to thor
20110904 19:53:34< Gambit> Hmm a "tank" unit that absorbs damage for team mates would be interesting in Wesnoth.
20110904 19:54:06< ancestral> I'd like to see a spell where a wizard can cast enlarge on a Shocktrooper
20110904 19:54:26< ancestral> The Shocktrooper enbiggens 4X
20110904 19:54:41< Gambit> Already doable
20110904 19:54:43< ancestral> And deals double damage but loses half movement
20110904 19:54:48< ancestral> Excellent
20110904 19:54:50< Gambit> It won't take more hexes
20110904 19:54:52< ancestral> Of course
20110904 19:55:06< Gambit> But you can add a standing anim that has a ~scale() modifier
20110904 19:55:07< ancestral> You'd have to paint the sprites over again at 4X
20110904 19:55:16< ancestral> or deal with pixelated awesomeness :)
20110904 19:55:49< ancestral> Maybe do some HQ4X or something
20110904 19:55:52< Gambit> I really should get around to coding that multi-health-bar unit some day.
20110904 19:56:06< ancestral> That'd be handy for bosses
20110904 19:56:15< Gambit> I have the art, and I have the pseudocode in my head.
20110904 19:56:23< Gambit> I just haven't needed it.
20110904 19:58:04-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 19:59:43-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 19:59:49-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 19:59:49-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 20:06:18< Gambit> ancestral: I think I've found the perfect candidate though: http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=52973
20110904 20:06:20< Gambit> :)
20110904 20:07:01< ancestral> Nice
20110904 20:11:41-!- roSievers [~roSievers@rbw01.rbw.stud.uni-goettingen.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 20:11:52-!- roSievers [~roSievers@rbw01.rbw.stud.uni-goettingen.de] has left #wesnoth []
20110904 20:12:30-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-61-187-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 20:15:12-!- deekay [~dk@wesnoth/developer/dragonking] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 20:20:21-!- NightWolf- [NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 20:32:51-!- PetePorty [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 20:35:08-!- monochromatic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20110904 20:37:18-!- MeccaGod [~majs@host189-199.bornet.net] has quit []
20110904 20:39:16-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@183.157.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20110904 20:41:14-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 20:41:47-!- monochro1atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 20:42:33-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@183.157.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 21:03:40-!- monochro1atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110904 21:05:38-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-155-217-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ...]
20110904 21:05:56-!- Tomsik [~Tomsik@bbw90.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 21:10:01-!- monochromatic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 21:11:51-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Vorpal
20110904 21:15:29-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 21:16:23-!- monochromatic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 21:17:42-!- monochro2atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 21:18:27-!- Filar [~Mussious@dfi196.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20110904 21:20:34-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 21:21:10-!- Netsplit over, joins: Vorpal
20110904 21:21:17-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded]
20110904 21:23:30-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 21:24:24< Gambit> zookeeper: Around?
20110904 21:24:58< Gambit> This:
20110904 21:24:59< Gambit>      experience = $($this_unit.experience|+5)
20110904 21:25:14< Gambit> Is concatenating it as a string -_-
20110904 21:25:42< Gambit> Do you know how to force addition there?
20110904 21:25:52< shadowmaster> wrap the attribute literal in quotes
20110904 21:26:02< shadowmaster> e.g. experience = "$($this_unit_experience + 5)"
20110904 21:26:18< shadowmaster> the second underscore should obviously be a dot
20110904 21:26:48-!- monochro2atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 21:27:16< Gambit> :s
20110904 21:27:20< Gambit> What strange behavior.
20110904 21:27:21< Gambit> Thanks shadowmaster.
20110904 21:27:52< shadowmaster> it's not strange, it's the preprocessor taking precedence over the parser and the vconfig translation unit
20110904 21:27:58< shadowmaster> + is a preprocessor operator
20110904 21:28:24< shadowmaster> "foo" + _"bar" yields "foo<translation of bar>" for the parser proper
20110904 21:29:34< shadowmaster> what "<translation of bar>" will be will vary according to the time and configuration at the point the attribute is actually consumed by the game engine
20110904 21:30:17< Gambit> Well now I have an ability to make a unit take all the defensive damage for surrounding allies :D
20110904 21:31:22< shadowmaster> if there's a wiki page explaining the usage of inline formulas, someone may want to check whether there's a note explaining the aforementioned preprocessor trap and add it if there is none there.
20110904 21:31:36< Gambit> Of course, this unit should get no AMLAs and should have less hp than max_exp
20110904 21:43:48 * zookeeper is around too late
20110904 21:45:21-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:05:26-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-9-243-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:08:43-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@183.157.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 22:08:44-!- monochro2atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:10:28-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@183-86-125.ip.adsl.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 22:10:39-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@183.157.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:11:39-!- elias [~allefant@allegro/developer/allefant] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20110904 22:24:47-!- elias [~allefant@allefant.com] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:38:30-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:47:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-34-55-150.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai]
20110904 22:52:45-!- mthe [~mthe@91.208.177.147] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 22:52:45-!- mthe [~mthe@91.208.177.147] has quit [Changing host]
20110904 22:52:45-!- mthe [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 23:03:03-!- monochro2atic [~monochrom@pool-74-109-64-2.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20110904 23:04:00-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-9-243-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20110904 23:04:33-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-9-243-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth
20110904 23:07:28-!- Unnheulu [~ieuan@host86-150-63-246.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20110904 23:32:26-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20110904 23:32:58-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@ppp59-167-222-56.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20110904 23:34:18-!- Sarcasm [~user@101.18.204.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
--- Log closed Mon Sep 05 00:00:55 2011