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Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20111025 01:06:57-!- ushiu [~ushiu@149.Red-83-50-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111025 01:18:16-!- ivanovic_pandora [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 01:22:12-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has quit [Quit: BRB->] 20111025 01:25:32-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 01:28:01-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111025 01:28:10-!- exiff [~ficl@unaffiliated/exiff] has quit [Quit: Ignorance is a sin.] 20111025 01:31:13-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 01:32:17-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 01:33:05-!- uncleshelby [~uncleshel@216.128.233.19] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 01:47:20-!- ivanovic_pandora [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20111025 01:48:29-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111025 01:50:55-!- ivanovic_pandora [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 01:54:40-!- uncleshelby [~uncleshel@216.128.233.19] has quit [] 20111025 02:04:24-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111025 02:05:48-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 02:06:41-!- woodmouse [~chatzilla@cs145063.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 20111025 02:13:38-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 02:15:08-!- happygrue [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 02:23:46-!- exiff [~ficl@unaffiliated/exiff] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 02:34:37-!- Daniel0108 [~Daniel010@TouchLay/Founder/Daniel0108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111025 02:49:25-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@dhip-149.coburn.residences.colby.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111025 02:49:50-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin] 20111025 02:50:00-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@184.71.170.250] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 02:50:00-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@184.71.170.250] has quit [Changing host] 20111025 02:50:00-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 02:54:44-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20111025 02:59:47-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20111025 03:05:17-!- NightWolf- [NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has quit [Quit: [13:22:21] boah red nich immer so scheisse daher! Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! Wenns keinen was angeht gehts keinen was an, und wenns auf der hp stehen würde] 20111025 03:12:47-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 03:19:34-!- ivanovic_pandora [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111025 03:23:51-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20111025 03:24:18-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 03:28:45-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@S0106602ad06b8003.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 03:28:45-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@S0106602ad06b8003.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 20111025 03:28:45-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 03:31:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20111025 03:33:12-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20111025 03:34:06-!- ElBuzzard [~Orz@ip98-164-247-137.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 03:46:48-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111025 03:51:42-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20111025 03:53:34-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111025 03:53:57-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111025 03:57:35-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 04:00:11-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 04:15:15-!- ElBuzzard [~Orz@ip98-164-247-137.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20111025 04:34:42-!- ivanovic_pandora [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 04:48:06-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2396f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 04:48:44-!- ElBuzzard [~Orz@ip98-164-247-137.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 04:51:55-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2fc2d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20111025 04:52:03-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20111025 04:54:06-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 04:56:03-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 05:51:29-!- Gambit [~Gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111025 06:23:32-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has quit [Quit: BBL->] 20111025 06:46:00-!- exiff [~ficl@unaffiliated/exiff] has quit [Quit: Ignorance is a sin.] 20111025 06:46:26-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 06:57:29-!- ivanovic_pandora [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111025 07:06:49-!- Daniel0108 [~Daniel010@TouchLay/Founder/Daniel0108] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 07:17:03-!- pennomi [45a9bb27@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.169.187.39] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 07:18:19-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 07:20:52< pennomi> Hello all! I'm one of the devs working on the FLARE (Isometric RPG Engine) and we're currently trying to translate the project. I understand that BfW has a lot of success with gettext. Would anyone here happen to be able to answer a few questions for me about gettext? 20111025 07:22:07< shadowmaster> you may have more luck asking in the developers' channel, #wesnoth-dev, but at this time of the day there are probably very few people available besides me and I don't think they know exactly how our gettext interface works 20111025 07:22:46< pennomi> Ah, well thanks. You know anyone in particular who I should talk to? 20111025 07:23:56< shadowmaster> hm, actually, no, but that might depend on the actual questions :) 20111025 07:25:04< pennomi> Mostly, I'm curious about wether gettext supports loading multiple .po files. I figured since Wesnoth has lots of modders, it probably has multiple translation files as well. 20111025 07:25:17-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20111025 07:25:38< pennomi> We're looking at that same idea; each mod will need its own translation file. 20111025 07:26:39< pennomi> I'm also having a little trouble finding out if gettext is painlessly cross-platform. If it's a big pain, we might just roll our own solution. 20111025 07:26:54-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 07:27:45< pennomi> Thanks for the help anyway! 20111025 07:28:08< shadowmaster> even Wesnoth's core depends upon multiple gettext catalogs, but I don't know exactly how that works (something about "text domains") 20111025 07:29:24< shadowmaster> I think gettext causes problems on Windows using certain versions of Visual C++ but I'm not sure about that either (I have not used Windows or VC++ in ages) 20111025 07:30:25< pennomi> Amen to that :) 20111025 07:31:41< Espreon> Yeah, it is problematic, according to anonymissimus. 20111025 07:32:02< Espreon> It will always use the OS-set language no matter what. 20111025 07:32:24< pennomi> Hm... maybe we should think about using our own solution? We only need the basics. 20111025 07:32:30< Espreon> Luckily, our Windows binaries use MinGW. 20111025 07:32:36< Espreon> pennomi: No, don't. 20111025 07:32:54< pennomi> gettext is still the gold standard for translation, then? 20111025 07:33:07< Espreon> Pretty much. 20111025 07:33:15< pennomi> All right, that's good to know. 20111025 07:33:25< Espreon> Somewhere along the way, you'll get a translator for something that more than singular and plural. 20111025 07:33:37< pennomi> Right. Good point. 20111025 07:34:10< Espreon> But even with languages that only use those, the rules might be different. 20111025 07:34:51< pennomi> Yeah, I've seen some of the demonstrations in the gettext docs. 20111025 07:34:59< pennomi> Will we need to add an external dependency for gettext or is there a way to include that all in our codebase? 20111025 07:35:37< Espreon> If your engine handles text, I'd recommend using something that definitely handles RTL and complex scripts. 20111025 07:35:46< Espreon> ... well. 20111025 07:35:56< Espreon> pennomi: I believe you could internalize it. 20111025 07:36:06< Espreon> After all, we internalize Lua. 20111025 07:36:09< shadowmaster> In GNU/Linux distributions gettext is a core component found in libc, I think. 20111025 07:36:42< pennomi> Oh, good. Thanks! Yeah, there's no sense in writing a text engine that would have to get rewritten later, eh? 20111025 07:36:49< Espreon> Yeah. 20111025 07:37:04< pennomi> You've all been very helpful! Thanks a million. 20111025 07:37:12< Espreon> No prob. 20111025 07:37:26< pennomi> (And, Wesnoth is pretty much the best game on Linux. Period.) 20111025 07:37:33< Espreon> Heh, thanks. 20111025 07:37:56< pennomi> That's a good complement coming from a dev on another project ;) 20111025 07:38:11< shadowmaster> :) 20111025 07:40:14< Espreon> pennomi: Note that Pango is an example of something that can handle RTL and complex scripts. 20111025 07:41:38< pennomi> Pango? Never heard of it. After a quick Google... looks like it's a font renderer? 20111025 07:41:54< pennomi> We're currently using SDL_ttf. 20111025 07:42:00< Espreon> Well, Wikipedia classifies it as a text renderer. 20111025 07:42:07< shadowmaster> yes, Pango is a font rendering engine that's mainly used by GNOME applications. Wesnoth currently uses both SDL_ttf and Pango. 20111025 07:42:25< Espreon> We're transitioning to Pango, though. 20111025 07:42:26< shadowmaster> (SDL_ttf is used by some of our older UI components; it's being phased out since 2008.) 20111025 07:42:43< pennomi> So things are moving over to Pango, then. 20111025 07:42:53< pennomi> That's really good to know. 20111025 07:42:58< shadowmaster> s/GNOME/Gtk+/ 20111025 07:43:00< Espreon> pennomi: Note that characters in complex scripts actually have to be reshaped depending on character positioning and stuff. 20111025 07:43:22< Espreon> So, it is a big deal. 20111025 07:43:49< Espreon> Things like Arabic and Hindi need it. 20111025 07:44:15< pennomi> Right. Hrm... I'll talk with the other dev and see what he thinks about that. It's likely we'd do something like that. 20111025 07:44:27< pennomi> Do you still use the other SDL libraries? 20111025 07:44:43< Espreon> Yeah. 20111025 07:44:50< shadowmaster> SDL, SDL_mixer, SDL_image 20111025 07:44:56< pennomi> Yeah, us too. 20111025 07:45:08< shadowmaster> oh, and SDL_net, but that's being phased out in favor of Boost.asio too 20111025 07:45:46< pennomi> Well, we've avoided Boost so far. Clint's not a big fan of adding dependencies. How well dooes Pango play with SDL? 20111025 07:46:05< shadowmaster> (unpatched SDL_net doesn't support IPv6, for starters) 20111025 07:46:15< Espreon> pennomi: Well, sdl-pango is the bridge for Pango and SDL. 20111025 07:46:30< Espreon> I can't say anything more, though. 20111025 07:46:37< pennomi> Really? No IPv6? That's a bummer. 20111025 07:46:48< shadowmaster> we don't currently use SDL_pango 20111025 07:47:13< Espreon> shadowmaster: Oh? We don't? I thought we needed it. 20111025 07:47:16< pennomi> Oh? 20111025 07:47:33< shadowmaster> Espreon: no, Wesnoth uses Pango directly 20111025 07:47:40< Espreon> Ah. 20111025 07:47:50< shadowmaster> I am pretty sure SDL_pango isn't even installed here :) 20111025 07:48:20< pennomi> Do you just blit Pango sprites over the top of everything else? I guess I'm having trouble figuring out how that one will work. :) 20111025 07:49:41< shadowmaster> I don't particularly enjoy reading mordante's class implementations in general, but there seems to be code for converting rendered Cairo surfaces into SDL surfaces in src/text.cpp 20111025 07:50:47< pennomi> Ah, great. I can just ack-grep the code to find what I'm looking for anyway. 20111025 07:52:52< shadowmaster> you'll also have to note that Wesnoth has a lot of abstractions set in place to make it easier to work with SDL. For instance, SDL_Surface objects are managed in a true OO fashion via the surface struct/wrapper 20111025 07:53:31< pennomi> As far as I'm concerned, that 20111025 07:53:37< pennomi> s the proper way to do things. 20111025 07:54:55-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has quit [Quit: BBL->] 20111025 07:58:48-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111025 08:00:04< pennomi> Well thanks again for your help! It's late here and I've got work early tomorrow, but your advice has been invaluable. 20111025 08:00:25< Espreon> Yup. See ya! 20111025 08:00:46-!- pennomi [45a9bb27@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.169.187.39] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20111025 08:04:07-!- Daniel0108 [~Daniel010@TouchLay/Founder/Daniel0108] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20111025 08:08:20-!- happygrue [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111025 08:09:42-!- KaKiLa [~juanpi@xdsl-31-164-17-234.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20111025 08:14:25-!- happygrue [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 08:21:43-!- enchilado [~enchilado@unaffiliated/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 08:42:57-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [] 20111025 09:04:56-!- Androgeos [~administr@175.156.212.245] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 09:20:25-!- ushiu [~ushiu@149.Red-83-50-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 09:23:33-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-6-61-207.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 09:23:47< ancestral> My god 20111025 09:24:09< ancestral> Okay the Montréal mirror for downloading Wesnoth is blazingly fast 20111025 09:24:14< ancestral> "iWeb" 20111025 09:24:21< ancestral> I'm downloading at 1 MB/sec 20111025 09:24:42< ancestral> It's going to take me less than 5 minutes total 20111025 09:25:23< ancestral> Okay, maybe 5½ 20111025 09:36:34-!- ElBuzzard [~Orz@ip98-164-247-137.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Brawnk] 20111025 09:36:57-!- Octalot [~noct@host86-160-136-203.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 20111025 09:54:20-!- ElBuzzard [~Orz@ip98-164-247-137.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 10:09:40-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 10:22:40-!- habmala [~sebb@c-2ec26c8c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 10:23:52-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-6-61-207.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20111025 10:24:01-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-6-61-207.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 10:27:01-!- ElBuzzard [~Orz@ip98-164-247-137.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111025 10:27:53-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20111025 10:29:59-!- mystic_x [~X@unaffiliated/mysticx] has joined #wesnoth 20111025 11:08:26-!- habmala [~sebb@c-2ec26c8c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20111025 11:19:35-!- ushiu [~ushiu@149.Red-83-50-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111025 11:30:02-!- EvilDaniel0108 [~Daniel010@2001:4ba0:cafe:4d8::1] has quit [Quit: Bye! 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Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! 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