--- Log opened Sun Nov 13 00:00:43 2011
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20111113 00:04:48-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: String/feature-freeze active for trunk | 172 bugs, 326 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20111113 00:41:16< anonymissimus> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35447
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20111113 04:51:56< CIA-81> espreon * r51964 /trunk/src/reports.cpp: Replaced a couple of hyphen-minuses with figure dashes.
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20111113 10:52:45< Ivanovic> moin
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20111113 11:46:49 * Ivanovic is currently working on the draft for the "call for speakers" for the fosdem2012 gamedev room
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20111113 12:11:46< Ivanovic> sent to the ML open-source-gamedev-devroom@lists.fosdem.org
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20111113 13:20:58< fendrin> hi Jetrel
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20111113 13:23:44< fendrin> Jetrel: I am not an expert with gui psychic. So my layman opinion is that brighter is fine to catch more attention but making it look like it is always pressed is unsettling. So I think it's okay to have a bright border but the color scheme of the button itself should follow our standards regarding the inactive/mouseover/pressed states.
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20111113 15:21:58 * fendrin wonders if recruiting/recalling on castle tiles which are under fog of war are valid. The same question holds for shroud.
20111113 15:23:39< Gambit> Arcanclave Citadel is a perfect example
20111113 15:24:27< Crendgrim> Thousand Stings Garrison
20111113 15:25:20< fendrin> So both cases should result in a recruit/recall?
20111113 15:36:41-!- 13WAARKUE [Mkaysi@TouchLay/Member/Mkaysi] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
20111113 15:43:52< Gambit> You should probably discuss this with everyone in #wesnoth-mp and Doc Paterson
20111113 15:45:06< Gambit> Recruiting into shroud is strange because you gain an advantage based just on how well you have memorized the map.
20111113 15:45:42< Gambit> How well you can pinpoint a castle hex in the dark.
20111113 15:46:54< Gambit> That gives a very concrete disadvantage to new players.
20111113 15:50:20< Soliton> the context menu tells you.
20111113 15:51:02< Soliton> recruit/recall under shroud does seem strange though.
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20111113 18:10:27< AI0867> noy: WTT now has its own era called Temporary Khalifate
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20111113 18:42:26< mordante> servus
20111113 18:43:14< Gambit> mordante: you just got served
20111113 18:43:20< mordante> ?
20111113 18:43:48< mordante> nah just greet in another language 
20111113 18:46:10< mordante> Ivanovic, read your mail regarding the Fosdem, will think about it
20111113 18:46:44< mordante> Jetrel, regarding the button, basically what fendrin said, it now looks like a high-lited default button but bigger
20111113 18:47:25< mordante> when I see a button high-lited I click... and then I notice my mouse was not on the button
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20111113 18:52:15< anonymissimus> AI0867: do you care for  bug #18996 then ?
20111113 18:52:43 * anonymissimus doesn't want to attempt calculating why the guy got 140000 now ;)
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20111113 19:06:44< AI0867> wesbot: bug #18996
20111113 19:06:51< wesbot> Bug #18996  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20111113 19:06:51< wesbot> Summary: RANDOM apparently not using full .. range
20111113 19:06:51< wesbot> Original submission: I wanted to create some unique object ids. My approach wa
20111113 19:06:54< wesbot> s to define a macro called UNIQUE as follows#define UNIQUE VAR{RANDOM 1000
20111113 19:06:56< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?18996
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20111113 19:07:03< AI0867> eh, I'm not going to touch the rng
20111113 19:07:11< AI0867> those things are very sensitive
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20111113 19:45:20< mordante> I'm off bye
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20111113 20:32:49< grzywacz> Anyone familiar with Dead Water around? It seems like 'Kai' is sometimes used as a title (lowercase 'kai'). I wonder if that's intentional, or just a typo?
20111113 20:35:23< fendrin> grzywacz: kai is a title if i remember correctly. Something in the term of king or leader.
20111113 20:35:56< grzywacz> Apparently it also means "sea" in hawaiian.
20111113 20:39:53< fendrin> Might be a coincidence.
20111113 20:40:23< grzywacz> Unlikely? I find it hard to imagine someone just came up with a random word for "leader" like that. :)
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20111113 20:51:41< Gallaecio> grzywacz: Anyway, I guess its usage is like with King, that goes uppercase in front of king’s name normally, but otherwise can be lowercase.
20111113 20:52:05< Gallaecio> In fact, IIRC, sometimes “king” is used instead.
20111113 20:52:17< Gallaecio> Maybe THAT could be considered a typo :)
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20111113 21:51:20< anonymissimus> grzywacz: can you still reproduce bug #17311 ?
20111113 21:51:28< grzywacz> wesbot, bug #17311
20111113 21:51:28< wesbot> Bug #17311  Assigned to: Karol Nowak <grzywacz>  Status: Need Info  Priority: 7 - High
20111113 21:51:32< wesbot> Summary: Joining a game one has left before (or was kicked from) results in parse error
20111113 21:51:35< wesbot> Original submission: As in the subject. The error reads:"Unexpected charac
20111113 21:51:36< anonymissimus> AI0867: well, close it was won't fix then ?
20111113 21:51:38< wesbot> ters after variable name (expected , or =), value '"
20111113 21:51:40< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?17311
20111113 21:51:53< grzywacz> anonymissimus, let me see
20111113 21:52:26< anonymissimus> otherwise there is a new bug report nobody likes to deal with which adds to the stacked bugs and contributes +1 to the bug count ;)
20111113 21:53:51< anonymissimus> AI0867: or you could change it to a FR
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20111113 21:56:02< anonymissimus> "due to the implementation limitations of the RNG there is such a limit; I'm changing it to a FR so that the bug count doesn't get increased and there my be a chance that at some spot someone will implement it betetr but in reality this won't be done and I'm just not rejecting it completely so that the poster doesn't bother me further "
20111113 21:56:18< anonymissimus> :)
20111113 21:57:31< Soliton> is that limitation documented somewhere?
20111113 21:59:17< zookeeper> that's nonsense
20111113 22:00:08< zookeeper> what's with the fixation on marking bugs as FR's just to lower the bugcount?
20111113 22:01:37-!- loonycyborg [loonycybor@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20111113 22:03:58< anonymissimus> zookeeper: one of the reasons is that it is easier to reject the feature or claimed fix this way
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20111113 22:04:23< anonymissimus> since it doesn't disappear completely
20111113 22:05:01< zookeeper> how does that help the game?
20111113 22:05:03< grzywacz> anonymissimus, seems to work without ANA
20111113 22:05:19< anonymissimus> ok great
20111113 22:05:42< grzywacz> anonymissimus, close as won't fix?
20111113 22:05:56< anonymissimus> well then you can close it, some other ana-caused bugs were already closed as well for teh same reason
20111113 22:05:56< zookeeper> why?
20111113 22:06:12< zookeeper> oh, i guess you're talking about another bug now.
20111113 22:06:13< anonymissimus> since ana is no longer going to be used
20111113 22:07:35< anonymissimus> zookeeper: well, my personal philosophy is about like this "as soon as I know of an unfixed bug I have to deal with it before I can code anything else"
20111113 22:08:00< anonymissimus> so as an idealist/perfectionist I aim for zero bug count no matter what :)
20111113 22:09:15< anonymissimus> for this bugs which are not really bugs must be somehow rejected, such as this one seems to be
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20111113 22:12:19< anonymissimus> the strict compilation thingy the cmake built system is using by default is the same philosophy, it forces fixing of any warnings as soon as there is one
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20111113 22:22:26< zookeeper> anonymissimus, well, sorry to be blunt, but that's more of a problem with your philosophy then
20111113 22:23:44< anonymissimus> but it helps the game if important bugs are more visible due to low count, doesn't it
20111113 22:24:55< Soliton> there's priority and severity for that.
20111113 22:25:43< zookeeper> yup
20111113 22:26:37< Soliton> to get back to my question... is that RANDOM limitation documented somewhere?
20111113 22:28:30< zookeeper> doesn't look like it
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20111113 22:32:24< anonymissimus> hm are such limitations documented at all ? can we have a variable in wml with value 2^16+1 and such
20111113 22:32:39< Soliton> so if there really is that limitation i'd document it and mark the bug depending on whether the limitation makes sense or not.
20111113 22:32:44< anonymissimus> I would never report it as a bug if not
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20111113 22:34:21< Soliton> if there is such a limitation it should be documented. i have no idea why it would be 2^16+1.
20111113 22:34:53< Soliton> my point is to figure out what the actual limitation is anyway.
20111113 22:35:48< anonymissimus> signed int can go up to 2^16 usually
20111113 22:36:16< Soliton> that must be some huge sign.
20111113 22:36:38< anonymissimus> loonybot: max_int
20111113 22:36:41< loonybot> error: 'max_int' does not name a type
20111113 22:36:51< anonymissimus> loonybot: MAX_INT
20111113 22:36:52< loonybot> error: 'MAX_INT' does not name a type
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20111113 22:39:28< Soliton> if MAX_INT is the limit for WML variables, which sounds quite plausible, then that should be mentioned somewhere.
20111113 22:39:46< Soliton> doesn't seem like that would be related to that report.
20111113 22:39:47< anonymissimus> 2.147.483.647 ...I better shut up
20111113 22:40:02< zookeeper> well, WML variables are just string
20111113 22:40:19< anonymissimus> but they are often casted to int
20111113 22:40:26< Soliton> well, when used as an integer.
20111113 22:40:41< anonymissimus> so at all of these spots there is such a limitation
20111113 22:41:41< zookeeper> i thought this was specific to random=
20111113 22:42:01< zookeeper> AI's post seemed to indicate that
20111113 22:42:03< anonymissimus> (2^16 is the number of vertical sample steps in 16bit PCM/audio CDs thats why it came to my mind)
20111113 22:43:15< Soliton> (adding one on top of that still makes no sense ;-))
20111113 22:44:21< shadowmaster> loonybot << INT_MAX;
20111113 22:44:28< loonybot> 2147483647
20111113 22:44:58< shadowmaster> loonybot << UINT_MAX;
20111113 22:44:58< loonybot> 4294967295
20111113 22:45:09< Soliton> loonybot << RAND_MAX;
20111113 22:45:09< loonybot> 2147483647
20111113 22:46:20< anonymissimus> Soliton: well if you add 1 on top of those you have clipping, it makes sense, but of course not if the limit is much higher as for int in C++
20111113 22:47:42< Soliton> if by clipping you mean wrap around then that'd be the smallest number not the largest.
20111113 22:48:57< Soliton> so to me it seems we actually have no idea what's with the 140000 in that report. so before marking it in some way someone needs to figure out what's going on...
20111113 22:53:01< anonymissimus> in the context of PCM it's not wrap around
20111113 22:53:10< anonymissimus> there it is just clipping
20111113 22:53:19< Soliton> no idea what that means then.
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20111113 23:13:25< anonymissimus> I posted some reproducing script in there however, for 1000..9999 it still works and then gets buggy; a warning or error that the number can't get that high would be nice
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 14 00:00:48 2011