--- Log opened Thu Dec 08 00:00:48 2011
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20111208 00:30:30< CIA-79> ivanovic * r52195 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Czech translation
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20111208 01:43:48< CIA-79> anonymissimus * r52196 /trunk/src/unit_types.cpp: ignore unit_types with empty id= (bug #19133)
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20111208 01:48:33< anonymissimus> wesbot: topic
20111208 01:48:35-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: String/feature-freeze active for trunk | 167 bugs, 326 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20111208 02:16:01< blarumyrran> Hello. Have there been any attempts at vectorizing the minimap? (so that eg a sea shore made of hexes would be displayed as a smooth curve or straight line instead of the standard jagged hex line)
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20111208 04:23:29< AI0867> mordante: one of the things that still needs to be changed is gettext.wesnoth.org
20111208 04:23:50< AI0867> it's VCS-agnostics, but it does contain hardcoded paths to checkout directories
20111208 04:23:58< AI0867> so, those need to be changed
20111208 04:24:25< AI0867> preferably by someone with a shell account on wesnoth.org
20111208 04:28:26< AI0867> Ivanovic: I can certainly understand that esr wanted to rewrite the whole thing (not wanting to deal with a perl mess), but it's actually reasonably understandable, once you get past the mess written by someone wanting to show off his perl skill while not understanding algorithms.
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20111208 04:31:37< esr> AI0867: There were specific features Ivanovic asked for, too.  I delivered them, but he though the result was too slow.
20111208 04:32:10< AI0867> I haven't gotten that list yet, but yes, it's a hacky mess of regexes
20111208 04:32:23< AI0867> I just managed to patch a few more into them
20111208 04:32:28< AI0867> and fix a few others
20111208 04:33:21< AI0867> I've written this rant before, in less friendly terms, in a slightly more private channel
20111208 04:33:49< AI0867> but I guess that makes me the resident expert now
20111208 04:41:08< AI0867> esr: do you have any documents describing the python version's improvements?
20111208 04:41:29< AI0867> a list of requirements should be enough
20111208 04:41:59< esr> AI0867: The FR for the tool has those requirements in it; it should still be in the bugtracker.
20111208 04:45:55< AI0867> #11294
20111208 04:49:01< AI0867> https://gna.org/bugs/?18622 <-- a reasonable indication of how broken things were
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20111208 11:50:06< nihathrael> moin all, if I want to add a new attribute into wml, say [greateAttr]. Is this automatically detected by the parser so that I can access it in the config class later, or is there manual work involved?
20111208 11:51:58< Espreon> As long as there's code that handles it, you're fine.
20111208 11:52:17< Espreon> That is, the parser doesn't need to know about every tag ever.
20111208 11:52:30< nihathrael> ok, sounds good
20111208 11:52:30< Espreon> I don't think it even knows about specific tags.
20111208 11:52:58< nihathrael> looking at the config class, I'd say it doesn't
20111208 11:53:26< nihathrael> ok, so only constraint is, that there has to be c++ code handling the tag?
20111208 11:59:48< Espreon> Yes.
20111208 11:59:54< Espreon> Or Lua code.
20111208 12:07:53< Espreon> nihathrael: Out of curiosity, what are you making?
20111208 12:08:14< nihathrael> is there documentation about the lua code?
20111208 12:08:42< nihathrael> Espreon: I'm analyzing how wesnoth, glest  and 0AD represent their in-game entities
20111208 12:08:55< Espreon> Ah, I see.
20111208 12:08:56< nihathrael> + the code architecture behind it
20111208 12:09:24< atomicbomb> Oh God, nihathrael? at this channel? :O
20111208 12:09:32< nihathrael> 0AD is a piece of art in that regard
20111208 12:09:47< Espreon> Hmmm, well, I'm not sure if the workings are documented, but the actual Lua code used to make WML tags is documented in the wiki and can easily be seen in data/lua.
20111208 12:10:57< Espreon> nihathrael: The stuff that integrates Lua with the WML engine or whatever is in src/scripting
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20111208 12:11:27< Espreon> ... or at least I think it is.
20111208 12:12:24< nihathrael> yea
20111208 12:14:05< nihathrael> atomicbomb: hehe, yea
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20111208 12:14:19< nihathrael> open source gaming world is not so huge j)
20111208 12:14:20< nihathrael> ;)
20111208 12:14:41< atomicbomb> nihathrael: funny that I've just thinked about you before I found you at this chan
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20111208 12:20:03< nihathrael> can mods change the game-logic by using lua?
20111208 12:20:29< blarumyrran> <blarumyrran> Hello. Have there been any attempts at vectorizing the minimap? (so that eg a sea shore made of hexes would be displayed as a smooth curve or straight line instead of the standard jagged hex line)
20111208 12:22:55< Espreon> nihathrael: What exactly do you mean?
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20111208 12:24:32< nihathrael> for example if I wanted to change my units behaviour in any special way, give it a teleport ability or so
20111208 12:25:04< atomicbomb> you can do it using WML
20111208 12:25:49< nihathrael> I can make my unit walk in circles after it hasn't been given manual commands for 5 consecutive rounds?
20111208 12:26:39< Espreon> It probably could be done in Lua.
20111208 12:27:15< Espreon> I'm not sure if pure Lua can do it now, but if need be, Lua make use of WML actions.
20111208 12:29:09< nihathrael> ok, cool
20111208 12:29:25< nihathrael> for the moment I don't know why someone would want to do it, I was just curious if its possible
20111208 12:30:22< atomicbomb> IIRC The LoW capaign uses the WML/Lua to modify the AI behaviours
20111208 12:30:29< atomicbomb> *campaign
20111208 12:30:53< nihathrael> i'll talk to gambit, if I read his tweets correctly he used lua in his mod
20111208 12:30:55< Espreon> nihathrael: Well, I think the latter would need to make use of WML events to do that.
20111208 12:31:52< Espreon> We don't use the term "mod" in Wesnoth since you're not really changing anything; you're actually writing something.
20111208 12:32:00< Espreon> We use the term "UMC".
20111208 12:32:51< nihathrael> user made content i assume?
20111208 12:32:54< Espreon> Yeah.
20111208 12:33:05< nihathrael> ok
20111208 12:35:09< Espreon> Well, actually, AFAIK, all uses of Lua in content go back to WML.
20111208 12:35:30< Espreon> ... since you need some sort of handle for the Lua code.
20111208 12:36:25< nihathrael> still I imagine lua code being a lot more flexible for implementing difficult stuff
20111208 12:37:09< Espreon> Possibly.
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20111208 17:49:29< Ivanovic> hi
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20111208 17:56:55< Espreon> Ivanovic: Why so English today?
20111208 17:57:18< Ivanovic> because i am awake at this time
20111208 17:57:27< Ivanovic> instead of still being sleepy while greeting
20111208 17:57:28< Ivanovic> ;)
20111208 17:58:06< Espreon> Ah, OK.
20111208 17:58:21< vultraz> lol
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20111208 18:04:14< anonymissimus> Espreon: "20111208 12:35:09< Espreon> Well, actually, AFAIK, all uses of Lua in content go back to WML.
20111208 18:04:16< anonymissimus> 20111208 12:35:30< Espreon> ... since you need some sort of handle for the Lua code."
20111208 18:04:17< anonymissimus> what do you mean ?
20111208 18:05:34< Espreon> Think about it.
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20111208 18:11:07< anonymissimus> ok I already did, so now I conclude that you are clueless xD
20111208 18:11:33< vultraz> lol
20111208 18:12:00< anonymissimus> lua needs a bit embedded into wml since the engine doesn't read lua directly or first thats all; a dofile or require command
20111208 18:12:09< Espreon> There you go.
20111208 18:16:29< anonymissimus> but Espreon don't you think you could have made r52196 yourself ?
20111208 18:16:43< anonymissimus> your guess about the empty id= was good
20111208 18:16:59< anonymissimus> does it work now btw ?
20111208 18:17:12< Espreon> Yes, it does.
20111208 18:17:14< Espreon> And hell no.
20111208 18:19:01< Espreon> anonymissimus: BTW, I think it's silly trying to print a unit's id like that since there wouldn't be an id, so... blargh.
20111208 18:21:43< Espreon> Oh, it prints more.
20111208 18:24:01< anonymissimus> it prints the content of that [unit_type]
20111208 18:24:12< Espreon> I saw that.
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20111208 18:35:42< anonymissimus> loonycyborg: have you tried compiling on win/MinGw/scons with --std=c++0x somewhen ? it fails upon linking for me...as usually...
20111208 18:37:13< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: No. I usually reserve such experiments for linux.
20111208 18:37:32< anonymissimus> .objs-debug\src\ai\actions.o:C:/wesnoth/src/ai/actions.cpp:1094: undefined reference to `ai::action_result::AI_ACTION_SUCCESS' and similar
20111208 18:38:03< anonymissimus> and very similar
20111208 18:38:20< chains> Just a short update about the ladder. The domain it was under is no longer owned by EyeRouge and the free account it was under is tied to that domain. So, if people are still interested in the ladder, something needs to be done. 
20111208 18:40:28< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: That's either a mingw/gcc bug or some objects weren't (re)built with -std=cxx0x
20111208 18:41:16< loonycyborg> Also, it seems that -DHAVE_CXX0X should be defined.
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20111208 18:42:34< anonymissimus> some objects not rebuilt is impossible, I deleted the output dir
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20111208 18:46:12< loonycyborg> That is are you sure that -std=c++0x is set for all objects?
20111208 18:48:18< anonymissimus> i enabled it in the project settings
20111208 18:49:10< anonymissimus> and since I deleted the output dir, all .os should have been recompiled with the flag enabled
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20111208 18:58:15< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: Anyway, it works for me on linux/gcc 4.5.3
20111208 18:59:29< anonymissimus> yup thats why someone has to try win (and that is me as usual)
20111208 18:59:59< anonymissimus> since otherwise everythign is working well on Linux and all the other systems are way behind
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20111208 20:56:34< SigurdFireDragon> anonymissimus: I've run into a problem writing the windows backtrace guide. When I try to run wesnoth-debug.exe in gdb, there's about 8 threads, then it exits with code 01
20111208 20:57:19< SigurdFireDragon> wesnoth never makes it to the loading screen
20111208 20:57:52< SigurdFireDragon> is it working for you?
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20111208 21:37:38< anonymissimus> SigurdFireDragon: hm no idea
20111208 21:37:44< anonymissimus> yes...
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20111208 22:35:55< anonymissimus> gabba: i just checked out the wb in a real network game
20111208 22:36:30< anonymissimus> Gabba: sadly there seem to be so many problems I can't even count them all
20111208 22:37:00< anonymissimus> I think many of them were due to controller changes
20111208 22:37:37< anonymissimus> (apart from that the wb keeps me so busy I can't even play seriously)
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20111208 22:46:17< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: make sure to note the issues somewhere
20111208 22:46:20< Ivanovic> eg in the bug tracker
20111208 22:51:03< anonymissimus> it is very hard to note something because
20111208 22:51:18< anonymissimus> 1) little is known about how the wb is actually supposed to work
20111208 22:51:48< anonymissimus> 2) there seem to be so many that it is hard to isolate a particular problem
20111208 22:52:03< anonymissimus> because upon doing that I run into something else
20111208 22:54:32< anonymissimus> and for making a bug report that is useful I need to isolate a problem; minimized deterministic way to reproduce
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20111208 23:13:55< anonymissimus> now I got easily OOS errors since a planned attack was only executed on the remote client
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20111208 23:17:00< gabba> anonymissimus: k just read the log 
20111208 23:17:13< gabba> real network game = how many players?
20111208 23:17:38< anonymissimus> 4 IIRC
20111208 23:18:00< anonymissimus> though real network game == basically at least 2 wesnoth instances
20111208 23:18:26< anonymissimus> i could reproduce the crash the one guy reported in the forum
20111208 23:18:41< gabba> anonymissimus: I test all the time with two clients and I don't get errors - but then I never get very far into a game for lack of time
20111208 23:18:52< anonymissimus> atm I have it again, that is, I can simulate an attck between 2 units which I should not be able to
20111208 23:19:07< anonymissimus> but it doesnt crash this time or not yet
20111208 23:19:31< gabba> anonymissimus: if there are too many problems, can you record it on video?
20111208 23:19:46< anonymissimus> no I dont think so
20111208 23:19:57< anonymissimus> and I am not doing your work for you sry
20111208 23:20:14< gabba> it's not doing my work for me, it's reporting bugs
20111208 23:20:57< gabba> "little is known about how the wb is actually supposed to work" - what the hell do you mean by this
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20111208 23:24:18< anonymissimus> by that I mean that I dont know very well how the whiteboard is supposed to behave in certain situations
20111208 23:24:34< anonymissimus> so I can't decide whether something is a bug or not
20111208 23:25:04< anonymissimus> and reporting bugs is always to some extent developer work, depending on how good/useful the report is
20111208 23:25:48< gabba> "I got easily OOS errors since a planned attack was only executed on the remote client" --> you can't execute an attack on other client, and all executions are done with the same code that executes regular attacks
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20111208 23:27:50< gabba> anonymissimus: anyways thanks for confirming the issues with 4-player MP, even though I don't like your attitude
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20111208 23:41:18< anonymissimus> what's wrong with my attitude ...?
20111208 23:41:45< anonymissimus> anyway about teh OOS, it was a planned attack which was auto-executed at turn end
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20111208 23:42:00< anonymissimus> but it was only executed on the remote client(s)
20111208 23:42:09< anonymissimus> not the client which planned it
20111208 23:42:31< anonymissimus> so thats clearly a bug; but I'm not sure how I got into that situation
20111208 23:43:07< anonymissimus> so making a report about it would require lots of trials for tracking down the cause
20111208 23:43:54< anonymissimus> and at that point then only the real work begins, debugging to find the cause in the code
20111208 23:45:49< gabba> ok, that description is helpful
20111208 23:45:51< anonymissimus> and please dont blame me just for saying that the whiteboard doesnt work
20111208 23:45:51< Gambit> anonymissimus: You are frequently kind of rude to others here in a way I don't notice from anyone else.
20111208 23:46:01< Gambit> ... like that
20111208 23:46:34< anonymissimus> what was rude ?
20111208 23:47:03< gabba> saying the whiteboard doesn't work is fine and even appreciated
20111208 23:47:37< gabba> it's jumping right away into the "I am not doing your work for you" gear that's rude...
20111208 23:49:35< anonymissimus> about recording a video, I dont have software installed which can
20111208 23:50:04< anonymissimus> and wont do for this, period...
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20111208 23:51:48< anonymissimus> the other problem I seemed to notice with "auto-executing planned moves at turn end" was that at one spot one of the move didnt get executed
20111208 23:52:24< anonymissimus> but it could have been the "planned recruits trick you into believing you can plan moves for them thing" I'm not sure
20111208 23:53:06< anonymissimus> although I think it wasn't and I don't remember how to get into that situation so i can't make a report as well
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20111208 23:57:12< gabba> Well I'm not *demanding* anything, but http://camstudio.org/ is free and small, so you could keep it around in case you see a bug and want to record it on the spot.
20111208 23:57:39< gabba> Apart from that I'm starting a game with 4 clients right now, as obviously it's something that wasn't properly tested this summer
20111208 23:57:52< anonymissimus> well good luck
20111208 23:58:35< anonymissimus> 3 clients is the best number I think; you get too confused otherwise
20111208 23:59:21< anonymissimus> the third one should be allied with another one or an observer, thats how I test my mp addon and when fixing mp bugs
--- Log closed Fri Dec 09 00:00:40 2011