--- Log opened Fri Dec 09 00:00:40 2011
--- Day changed Fri Dec 09 2011
20111209 00:00:40< gabba> I did two allied clients vs 1 AI up to now, but apparently that doesn't trigger those bugs
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20111209 00:01:16< gabba> Gonna try 3 and 4, since I now I wonder if two separate teams sharing plans does work as intended
20111209 00:04:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: String/feature-freeze active for trunk | 170 bugs, 326 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20111209 00:05:11< anonymissimus> I'm sorry to say that but perhaps for 1.10 the whiteboard or parts of it may need to be deactivated
20111209 00:05:57< anonymissimus> for instance, would it be feasible to disable whiteboard only in multiplayer or such
20111209 00:06:53< gabba> sure, if there are still critical bugs and we don't want to delay 1.10 for that
20111209 00:07:05< gabba> this needs some consensus though
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20111209 00:08:17< gabba> and if the wb doesn't make it in 1.10, I'm not sure I'll want to slug it out for another year or two without getting this into players' hands... so my continuation of the project might depend on the possibility to backport fixes
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20111209 00:50:00< gabba> wanted to give a chance to the improved Unity in Ubuntu, but God does it get in the way of switching between 3 different Wesnoth clients
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20111209 00:51:32< gabba> Tried tweaking it with compiz-config, but that usually ends in losing all window decorations or the WM simply crashing... fortunately Ctrl-alt-backspace works, lol
20111209 00:54:14< anonymissimus> gabba: http://imagebin.org/187691 when planning multi turn moves, minor image problem
20111209 00:55:35< gabba> anonymissimus: probably the same bug as https://gna.org/bugs/?17989
20111209 00:58:19< gabba> going afk
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20111209 01:56:08< anonymissimus>  Gabba: as far as sp is concerned the whiteboard is functional I think, apart from the UI
20111209 01:57:03< anonymissimus> there were several times units drawn ghosted instead of "really" I think but thats also a minor problem; and not sure how much is caused by me being confused by the UI ;)
20111209 01:58:00< anonymissimus> a "delete all planned actions" functionality may be pretty useful in case one needs to re-plan
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20111209 05:52:28< gabba> Soliton, Ivanovic: when I start a server with --verbose and under gdb, join with two clients, create a game with one client, have the second client join, and make both quit; then when I try to create another game with the same client the other cannot see it in the lobby unless he quits  to main menu and re-joins the lobby.
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20111209 05:53:31< gabba> Also, from that point on when I re-join the server I usually see my name duplicated in the players list
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20111209 06:16:32< shadowmaster> mordante: I noticed the campaign menu sort algorithm used (game_controller.cpp:726) isn't stable. As a result, campaigns with the same (or none whatsoever) rank apparently can be sorted differently depending on the STL implementation, instead of keeping the original order in WML. (This was noted comparing my campaign's entries for separate episodes as displayed on Linux against Mac OS X.)
20111209 06:16:45< shadowmaster> mordante: would it be too much of a problem to use the STL stable_sort algorithm instead?
20111209 06:17:32< shadowmaster> that is, to potentially preserve the WML order when the ranks are the same/nonexistent (I presume I have no way to test that but to ask Mac OS X users of my campaign, though)
20111209 06:18:55< shadowmaster> from what I gather, both algorithms are O(n * log(n)) (whatever that means, but stable_sort can become O((n * log(n))^2) depending on how much memory is available  [ http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/stable_sort.html ]
20111209 06:19:32< shadowmaster> (algorithmic complexity analysis isn't a subject I've ever been able to understand, sadly)
20111209 06:21:01< gabba> shadowmaster: really? O(function) only means that the amount of calculations to do don't grow faster than that function times a constant
20111209 06:22:44< gabba> so for instance O(x^2) is worse than O(log(x)) because x^2 is a function that grows much faster than log(x)... easy to see when you draw the graph of both functions
20111209 06:23:38< shadowmaster> hm
20111209 06:28:29< gabba> shadowmaster: might as well complete the crash course :P :
20111209 06:28:40< gabba> x, n or whatever parameter you feed to the function represents the size of the dataset you use you algorithm on... so the number of elements in your table/array
20111209 06:29:10< gabba> And how do you get to a result like O(x^2)?
20111209 06:31:48< gabba> Well it's pretty easy to understand if you're doing two loops over all your data, one inside each other. Outer loop is executed x times, and so inner loop is executed x*x times. So x^2 times.
20111209 06:32:25< shadowmaster> right
20111209 06:32:45< gabba> Since you don't really care if there are 1 or 5 operations inside the inner loop to describe your overall algorithm growth, you abstract away and just say O(n^2)
20111209 06:35:03< gabba> More esoteric functions like log(n) usually come because your dataset is organised as a tree, but you don't need to know how to analyse those to understand the O() notation.
20111209 06:35:13< gabba> End of crash course ;)
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20111209 09:14:57< Ivanovic> moin
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20111209 09:22:50< gabba> morning Ivanovic
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20111209 09:31:19< CIA-79> gabba * r52197 /trunk/src/menu_events.cpp: 
20111209 09:31:19< CIA-79> Revert revision 52061 "Auto-execute remaining whiteboard planned actions at end of turn" for now.
20111209 09:31:19< CIA-79> Attacks were executing on remote clients but not locally, because of the seed callback mechanism no having a chance to trigger.
20111209 09:33:21< gabba> ^Still working on proper auto-execution... it's more a feature than a tweak to be honest, but the current dialog spam at end of turn really needs a proper replacement
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20111209 14:59:41< Kolbur> hello
20111209 15:00:28< Kolbur> can someone please reevaluate the status of bug #17948
20111209 15:00:30< Kolbur> ?
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20111209 16:14:40< anonymissimus> Kolbur: that bug is postponed untili an undefined time
20111209 16:15:22< anonymissimus> will most certainly not be dealt with pre-1.10, like all of the DSU/sighted event bugs
20111209 16:17:59< anonymissimus> there is a plan to substitute DSU with a modified whiteboard which should be a rather invisible change to the player which is the prerequisite for fixing the DSU bugs according to Crab
20111209 16:19:00< anonymissimus> but no idea when this is going to happen; it will probably be tried to do it in the 1.11 dev cycle
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20111209 16:29:09< Kolbur> which means all related problems will stay in 1.10?
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20111209 16:30:11< Mkaysi> wesbot: bug #17948
20111209 16:30:12< wesbot> Bug #17948  Assigned to: Iurii Chernyi <crab>  Status: Postponed  Priority: 5 - Normal
20111209 16:30:15< wesbot> Summary: Delayed shroud updates + automove => scouting exploit
20111209 16:30:18< wesbot> Original submission: This bug has to do with the undo move function when delay
20111209 16:30:21< wesbot> ed shroud update is activated and using automoves (giving units with 0 mp left m
20111209 16:30:24< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?17948
20111209 16:30:26< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=12721
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20111209 17:03:46< anonymissimus> Kolbur: most certainly, yes
20111209 17:06:06< anonymissimus> Kolbur: btw I'm disappointed by how few people play on the 1.9 mp server, perhaps you can spread the news that the "MP bug" got worked around ?
20111209 17:08:05< anonymissimus> we need much more testing there that is
20111209 17:08:29< Kolbur> yes, the WTT tournament is currently going a bit slow unfortunately
20111209 17:08:46< Kolbur> might be better when the next round finally starts 
20111209 17:09:13< Kolbur> i just posted something today for bug 16299 ;)
20111209 17:10:18< Kolbur> seems like the initialisation doesn't get propagated properly, i guess that's what you meant ?
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20111209 17:11:35< mordante> servus
20111209 17:11:44< Kolbur> moin
20111209 17:11:45< mordante> anonymissimus, regarding your c++11 linker errors, I have a fix
20111209 17:11:50< mordante> servus Kolbur 
20111209 17:12:16< mordante> only can't commit at the moment, it needs a bit more polishing, hopefully have time later this evening
20111209 17:13:19< mordante> but it should be possible unless RL plays tricks on me again 
20111209 17:13:50< anonymissimus> mordante: ok so that means you got the same or similar problem and it is not win-specific ?
20111209 17:14:03< mordante> yup
20111209 17:14:24< anonymissimus> then I wonder why loonycyborg told me that it works for him...
20111209 17:14:46< anonymissimus> the compilation itsself worked btw
20111209 17:14:54< mordante> because he probably doesn't use the same compiler as I do ;-)
20111209 17:15:15< mordante> anyway got to go
20111209 17:15:21< anonymissimus> cheers
20111209 17:15:26< mordante> bye
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20111209 17:22:42< anonymissimus> Kolbur: can reproduce; it is possibly the result of that I didn't correctly fix it
20111209 17:23:22< anonymissimus> reloading from the client which took control should work around it in any case; the situation is still better than in 1.8 I guess
20111209 17:24:24< anonymissimus> so something about the replay data the observer gets sent seems wrong; however I checked the replays of the remaining clients they were ok
20111209 17:27:47< anonymissimus> (actually, if you have OOS then reloading a save from one client always resolves the problem)
20111209 17:29:56< anonymissimus> or should, at least if the replay and gamestate version that client has is ok
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20111209 17:32:16< Kolbur> transferring control back seems to work fine too
20111209 17:33:14< Kolbur> but in that case other observers are screwed by OOS errors ^^
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20111209 17:43:58< anonymissimus> Kolbur: yes, but the remaining player's replays and saves should be ok as opposed to 1.8
20111209 17:44:38< anonymissimus> ok in that the disonnecting side's move points aren't lost etc so it's possible to continue by reloading and the game isn't lost
20111209 17:45:43< Kolbur> yes
20111209 17:47:14< Kolbur> what i meant is that the usual continuation is the disconnecting player coming back as an observer and get control transferred back which works in this case but any observers will have OOS errors (which could be mitigated by reloading)
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20111209 17:47:49< alink> hi
20111209 17:48:03< Kolbur> but it's definitely better than before, so thx for that :)
20111209 17:48:18< Ivanovic> hi alink
20111209 17:48:22< Ivanovic> nice to see you around
20111209 17:48:38< alink> hello Ivanovic
20111209 17:49:34< alink> yeah i make myself a bit too rare ;)
20111209 17:53:20< anonymissimus> alink: one of the things we would be glad to see you looking at: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18793
20111209 17:53:33< anonymissimus> since afaik you know the display code well
20111209 17:54:11< anonymissimus> (personally I suspect shadowmaster is wrong or confused about that point)
20111209 17:54:35< alink> anonymissimus: indeed i should know this area (assuming it didn't change too much)
20111209 17:55:35< alink> i wish too mainly work on something else first, but i can do a quick check
20111209 17:55:47< alink> s/too/to
20111209 17:58:34< alink> it seems indeed not properly centered
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20111209 18:03:51< anonymissimus> AI0867: IIRC properly centering it would imply more scrolling which is bad so I consider it a feature
20111209 18:04:57< anonymissimus> "scroll only so far that the position scrolled to is visible" appears enough
20111209 18:05:29< alink> no, the code is smart enough to avoid useless scrolling. In this case, even for an isolated unit, it inaccurately centers to it
20111209 18:06:05< alink> which causes more manual scrolling by the user when he tries to move his unit
20111209 18:08:34< alink> wesbot: seen maxxy
20111209 18:08:34< wesbot> alink: Sorry, I don't know of maxxy.
20111209 18:08:52< alink> wesbot: seen a-name-like-maxxy
20111209 18:08:52< wesbot> alink: Sorry, I don't know of a-name-like-maxxy.
20111209 18:09:14-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin]
20111209 18:09:17< alink> (which is the person who write that code IIRC)
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20111209 18:15:23< alink> mmmh, or maybe the code try to be even smarter. It looks like it scrolls just enough to have the unit roughly centered, some sort of lazy scrolling
20111209 18:16:33< alink> maybe not a bad idea for slow scrolling, but not wanted for instant scrolling (because minimizing travel distance is pointless when you teleport the view)
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20111209 18:23:56< alink> ok i see, it's a nice feature with a hardcoded value (50%) between perfect centering and minimal scroll distance 
20111209 18:24:20< alink> double inside_frac = 0.5; // 0.0 = always center the target, 1.0 = scroll the minimum distance
20111209 18:24:42< alink> display.cpp:1791
20111209 18:25:29< alink> maybe we can tweak the value depending of the type scrolling (warp or not, etc)
20111209 18:26:04< alink> anyway, need to think more about what is best and I need to go now
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20111209 19:20:15< AI0867> gabba: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=515090#p515090 <-- the linux commandline you posted will capture stdout, you probably want stderr instead. (use 2>)
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20111209 20:00:14< mordante> servus
20111209 20:00:28< mordante> Rhonda, did you change wesnoth.debian.net on purpose?
20111209 20:01:18< mordante> AI0867, I do not have a shell account on wesnoth.org
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20111209 20:07:38< CIA-79> mordante * r52198 /trunk/ (changelog src/ai/actions.hpp): 
20111209 20:07:38< CIA-79> Fixes compilation with clang 3.0 in C++11 mode.
20111209 20:07:38< CIA-79> The actual problem was in the linking phase. Anonymissimus had a similar
20111209 20:07:38< CIA-79> problem in MSVC in C++11 mode, this change might fix that as well.
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20111209 20:17:05< anonymissimus> mordante: it was gcc not MSVC but blargh
20111209 20:17:31< anonymissimus> actually, didnt try enabling c++11 in MSVC
20111209 20:17:52< mordante> anonymissimus, ah ok, gcc has no issues at all with that code, it was an issue for clang
20111209 20:18:12< anonymissimus> but perhaps its gone now
20111209 20:18:44< mordante> yeah, but I can't reproduce it with gcc, so I leave testing to you
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20111209 20:22:35< anonymissimus> the commit looks promising lets see
20111209 20:23:10< mordante> well there are no symbols anymore to link ;-)
20111209 20:23:46< anonymissimus> do I need to enable c++11 in MSVC at all ?
20111209 20:25:21< CIA-79> mordante * r52199 /trunk/src/game_controller.cpp: 
20111209 20:25:21< CIA-79> Use a stable sort for sorting campaigns.
20111209 20:25:21< CIA-79> Changed upon shadow_master's request.
20111209 20:25:31< CIA-79> mordante * r52200 /trunk/changelog: Also commit the changelog update...
20111209 20:26:07< mordante> no idea
20111209 20:26:15< mordante> shadowmaster, with the number of elements we sort I doubt you can see a difference between sort and stable_sort
20111209 20:28:10< anonymissimus> from what it sounds at stackoverflow its enabled by default
20111209 20:28:32< anonymissimus> that is, some of the c++11 features
20111209 20:29:39< anonymissimus> not in MSVC2008 though and we refrain from using 2010 due to its worse performance
20111209 20:38:10< shadowmaster> mordante: alright
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20111209 21:00:55< Rhonda> mordante: Oh, hmm. I was wondering what wesnoth.deb.at did (did show me a default page) and thought it would make sense to point it to the wesnoth.org server instead for times of DNS troubles …
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20111209 21:05:11< Rhonda> mordante: Please use irclogs.wesnoth.org for now
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20111209 21:12:34< anonymissimus> mordante: yup sucess
20111209 21:12:56< anonymissimus> I supposed you get the warnings about deprecated std::auto_ptr as well ?
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20111209 21:37:18< mordante> Rhonda, ah ok, does that mean your logs are no longer available?
20111209 21:37:36< mordante> anonymissimus, good, yes I get the warning as well
20111209 21:37:55< mordante> which isn't that odd, std::auto_ptr has been deprecated in C++11
20111209 21:38:09< mordante> gcc tells you how to silence the warning
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20111209 21:42:30< loonycyborg> mordante: Maybe replace them with boost::scoped_ptr?
20111209 21:43:50< mordante> loonycyborg, yup, but it's not high on my priority-list
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20111209 21:44:39< loonycyborg> Then I'll do it if I'll get around to :P
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20111209 21:45:08< mordante> feel free to do so :-P
20111209 21:45:25< mordante> shadowmaster, do you know where the image path functions are documented in the wiki?
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20111209 21:51:17< mordante> anonymissimus, I've been able to reproduce https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?18832, debugging now
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20111209 21:54:25< loonycyborg> mordante: Actually using scoped_ptr is impossible since the code tries to copy it. I'll look for alternatives.
20111209 21:55:04< mordante> ok
20111209 21:56:15< mordante> I'm off now, night
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20111209 22:07:23< shadowmaster> mordante: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ImagePathFunctionWML
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20111209 22:16:13< anonymissimus> I've been searching for that image path function stuff several times as well; i usually google for it now, typeing wesnoth wiki image path function is faster than searching the link ;)
20111209 22:16:44< chrisoelmueller> the fate of all wikis
20111209 22:16:50< shadowmaster> that's why bookmarks were invented in the early nineties
20111209 22:17:04< chrisoelmueller> (i also search our wiki by google because mediawiki search is awful)
20111209 22:21:55< alink> well google is still needed the first time
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20111209 22:36:18< shadowmaster> boucman: several animations in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AnimationWML mention an undocumented "highlight" attribute
20111209 22:36:34< shadowmaster> sure you didn't mean a different name?
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20111209 22:43:43< shadowmaster> mordante: btw, have you had a chance to take a look at https://gna.org/bugs/?19121 ?
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20111209 22:48:04< shadowmaster> in an unrelated note, it appears the sorting isn't responsible for the delay when opening the Campaigns menu since I still get a noticeable delay after commenting out the sorter call
20111209 22:51:27< alink> shadowmaster: the following openings seems faster though
20111209 22:51:46< shadowmaster> it also turns out most of that period of time isn't spent on gui2::tcampaign_selection::pre_show() like I initially thought
20111209 22:52:44< shadowmaster> but it follows the end of that function
20111209 22:52:48< alink> remove all campaigns but one to see if it depends of their number ?
20111209 22:53:05< shadowmaster> yeah, I imagine it could be an inefficiency in the dialog rendering
20111209 22:53:49< alink> btw does this dialog works without campaign ? because i think they are optional with debian
20111209 22:54:38< shadowmaster> looking at the implementation, it appears a multipage widget is initialized with every campaign description and image pair , so I suspect every single entry is prerendered offscreen
20111209 22:55:02< shadowmaster> since campaign images are 350x350 it should be no surprise that it takes a little while
20111209 22:55:39< alink> could also explain why the first one is slower, it needs to load all these images from disk
20111209 22:56:52< shadowmaster> if data/campaigns is missing in mainline the preprocessor will throw an error; otherwise, if the directory is present but empty, you'll get an error stating that "no campaigns are available" if you don't have add-on campaigns installed either
20111209 22:57:33< alink> ok, seems good
20111209 22:57:41< shadowmaster> if the world were perfect, the error message would explain what to do to solve the situation, though ;)
20111209 22:59:56< shadowmaster> either way, the wesnoth-*-data package in Debian forcefully creates data/campaigns because it installs the tutorial, so the preprocessor situation won't arise
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20111209 23:42:19< CIA-79> alink * r52201 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp sdl_utils.cpp sdl_utils.hpp): Fix local-ToD transitions for big RGB values (was clamped to +/-128)
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 10 00:00:04 2011