--- Log opened Fri Dec 16 00:00:32 2011
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20111216 00:10:38< anonymissimus> I dont think this attribute should be there in the first place
20111216 00:11:50< anonymissimus> in my campaign that dialog shows the save_id to me
20111216 00:13:13< anonymissimus> in multiplayer that attribute contains the nick of the player I think
20111216 00:14:10< anonymissimus> I could easily add a lua setter for it, the question is whether that is ok...
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20111216 00:17:55< loonycyborg> alink: Actually I was always wondering what's the point in Konrad/Lisar choice in tutorial.
20111216 00:18:15< loonycyborg> afaict that doesn't even cause much change in the dialogue..
20111216 00:18:42< anonymissimus> also shown in statistics and scenario overview dialog
20111216 00:19:13< Espreon> anonymissimus: Do it.
20111216 00:20:02< anonymissimus> Espreon: and what happens if I set it in multiplayer to somethign else than the current controller's nick ? that guy gets kicked then or what ^^
20111216 00:20:05< alink> loonycyborg: also there is no such choice in the rest of the game, unless you count difficulty
20111216 00:20:33< anonymissimus> I'll add and check that
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20111216 00:21:14< shadowmaster> alink: the tutorial is special on the way it interacts with the user. No other campaign is supposed to address the player directly, for example.
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20111216 00:21:27< shadowmaster> There's a specific note left for translators in the wesnoth-tutorial textdomain related to that.
20111216 00:21:28< alink> shadowmaster: indeed
20111216 00:22:24< shadowmaster> And most campaigns tell a specific story, which is why there are usually not many choices (and when there are, you get Northern Rebirth)
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20111216 00:23:11< alink> so since the player more directly incarnates the hero, we should allow to choose its gender. Make sense
20111216 00:24:58< alink> also most of our units have gender
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20111216 00:27:10< loonycyborg> Actually, Delfador couldn't even be Lisar's mentor since he fled when she(and konrad) were a babies
20111216 00:27:38< loonycyborg> And Lisar grew up with Asheviere.
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20111216 00:28:23< loonycyborg> So I wonder whether I'm paying too much attention to the story or not enough..
20111216 00:29:06< alink> you are not supposed to know that at the tutorial ;p
20111216 00:29:21< shadowmaster> loonycyborg: the tutorial doesn't abide by the Wesnoth canon
20111216 00:29:40< shadowmaster> in the Wesnoth canon the characters don't know about the gameplay mechanics either...
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20111216 00:36:55< anonymissimus> Espreon: do you need it it store_side ?
20111216 00:37:37< Espreon> I don't think so.
20111216 00:38:03< Espreon> anonymissimus: But why not have it there?
20111216 00:38:22< anonymissimus> theres a lot of stuff accessible only from lua
20111216 00:38:40< anonymissimus> i could grow oly in adding ol that to wml tags
20111216 00:38:51< anonymissimus> old..all of
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20111216 01:57:50< Espreon> anonymissimus: How goes the implementing?
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20111216 02:06:00< anonymissimus> implementing was very quick
20111216 02:06:19< anonymissimus> testing and debugging is the hard stuff always
20111216 02:06:29< anonymissimus> yes it interferes with multiplayer
20111216 02:06:58< anonymissimus> well I think a not "handle with care" chould be ok
20111216 02:07:27< anonymissimus> and no wml tag changing it, if someone is adventurous enough to change it in his mp addon thats his fault
20111216 02:08:06< anonymissimus> it doesnt change the client controlling though, it only is the engine knowing about which nick controls which side
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20111216 02:24:59< anonymissimus> just in case it could be restricted to SP
20111216 02:25:07< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52282 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: add lua getter and setter for [side]current_player
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20111216 02:30:55< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52283 /trunk/changelog: changelog update
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20111216 03:20:21< Espreon> anonymissimus: And how does one use this setter?
20111216 03:20:48< Espreon> anonymissimus: Also, I still think that [modify_side] should be able to modify the current_player attribute.
20111216 03:25:19< shadowm_laptop> Espreon: any news re https://gna.org/bugs/?19118 ?
20111216 03:26:22< Espreon> Nope.
20111216 03:27:13< shadowm_laptop> Espreon: do you think you can handle it before Sunday?
20111216 03:27:15< Espreon> I think I'll take a look at it tonight.
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20111216 04:39:11< CIA-85> alink * r52285 /trunk/src/ (sdl_utils.cpp sdl_utils.hpp): Optimize ToD update by skipping an useless step in lightmap application
20111216 04:39:15< CIA-85> alink * r52284 /trunk/src/ (image_modifications.cpp image_modifications.hpp): 
20111216 04:39:15< CIA-85> Remove internal image path function ~L() which applied lightmap.
20111216 04:39:15< CIA-85> Not used anymore by the ToD engine. I hesitated to let it live there
20111216 04:39:15< CIA-85> but just realised that it requires lightmap having same width as the image,
20111216 04:39:15< CIA-85> which makes it too limited.
20111216 04:54:29< shadowmaster> alink: hm, are you completely sure that couldn't be in use in any add-on?
20111216 04:55:22< alink> never documented anywhere, not even in changelog. Was also to limited to be usefull
20111216 04:56:38< shadowmaster> all right then
20111216 04:57:44< shadowmaster> although this raises the question: why were implementation details like that implemented in the form of image path functions instead of using a less visible mechanism?
20111216 04:58:31< alink> for a historical good reason.
20111216 04:59:13< alink> the local ToD started as a quick prototype to see if it was even possible and how it would look
20111216 04:59:36< alink> also allowing eleazar to experiment with the colors etc
20111216 05:00:08< shadowmaster> ah
20111216 05:00:24< alink> IPF are good for that, just manipulate some string and you have some new features for free (minus perf cost)
20111216 05:01:22< alink> since the ToD prototype looked good and had correct performance for normal use, I let it live a bit longer when I was away
20111216 05:02:31< alink> but then thonsew "fixed" it by make it supporting the [adjust_color] thingy and I realised that it needed something more efficient
20111216 05:06:03< alink> but in 1.11 we can add a correct ~L() or something equivalent
20111216 05:06:13< alink> maybe ~ADD()
20111216 05:06:55< CIA-85> espreon * r52286 /trunk/src/ (game_events.cpp scripting/lua.cpp team.cpp team.hpp): Made it so that [modify_side] is able to change the current_player attribute; made the Lua stuff return the attribute in the form of t_strings.
20111216 05:06:57< shadowmaster> I know he had a tendency to make changes without asking anybody, but hey, you weren't around! ;)
20111216 05:07:37< alink> yes, and he really fixed the problem.
20111216 05:08:13< alink> at least the visual part
20111216 05:08:24< CIA-85> espreon * r52287 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/1_Tutorial.cfg: If Li'sar is selected in the tutorial, change the current_player attribute to suit her. Fixes bug #19188.
20111216 05:08:33< Espreon> Hmmm...
20111216 05:09:18< alink> but he also added various bad changes in the commit, that's also why I restarted to work on ToD
20111216 05:15:05< CIA-85> espreon * r52288 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/2_Tutorial.cfg: And modify current_player as necessary in the tutorial's second scenario...
20111216 05:15:12< Espreon> ... Like what?
20111216 05:17:22< shadowmaster> alink: https://pastebin.com/ZBSFscrw
20111216 05:17:30< alink> wesbot: log 50620
20111216 05:17:31< wesbot> thonsew * r50620 : Fix for bug 18017 FADE_TO_BLACK and local tod don't play nice.  Implemented a local per tile color adjustment to go along with the local per tile time of day (tod) adjustment, during fades.  Also fixed scaling of tod lightmap, which was issuing errors.
20111216 05:17:36< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=50620
20111216 05:18:29< alink> the scaling was completly wrong, the mutable addition was bad etc ...
20111216 05:18:36< alink> shadowmaster: ok checking
20111216 05:19:56< alink> oh we have tests for this :-o
20111216 05:23:08< CIA-85> espreon * r52289 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Updated the changelogs.
20111216 05:23:09< alink> ok this doesn't really test anything, so i don't feel bad about removing this
20111216 05:24:23< CIA-85> alink * r52290 /trunk/src/tests/test_image_modifications.cpp: oops, fix test compilation broken by r52284
20111216 05:28:16< alink> shadowmaster: can you test it? I am rebuilding with tests on, but it takes some time and I am about to leave
20111216 05:30:23< alink> those IPF tests are a nice addition
20111216 05:30:38< shadowmaster> will try, I was in the middle of a full rebuild
20111216 05:31:24< alink> ok, but np mine is going faster than I thought
20111216 05:32:42< alink> well this cmake % thing is not a very good indicator
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20111216 05:34:31< alink> shadowmaster: ok done, sry about that
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20111216 05:35:03< alink> and now I need to go, bye
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20111216 05:36:52< CIA-85> espreon * r52291 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth/ang.po): Updated the Old English translation.
20111216 05:43:48< CIA-85> espreon * r52292 /trunk/po/wesnoth-multiplayer/en_GB.po: Updated the British English translation.
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20111216 06:49:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.13 planned for Sunday, 18th | String/feature-freeze active for trunk | 159 bugs, 327 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20111216 10:44:01< Ivanovic> moin
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20111216 11:48:00< CIA-85> elvish_hunter * r52293 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): LoW: fixed a Lua error in Ka'lian Under Attack, as reported in the forums
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20111216 11:53:16< CIA-85> espreon * r52294 /trunk/po/ (wesnoth-lib/en_GB.po wesnoth-tutorial/en_GB.po): Updated the British English translation.
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20111216 13:08:18< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52295 /trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs): updated French translation
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20111216 15:17:13< anonymissimus> Espreon: why did you call clear_caches in your team::set_current_player ?
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20111216 18:30:47< anonymissimus> zookeeper: but your select event is problematic in that code...I would expect that to go OOS horribly ?!
20111216 18:33:35< anonymissimus> ah ok thats why you made the prestart event...well I thought about making it so that it is always set, not per-case
20111216 18:34:31< zookeeper> yeah, i think i at least attempted to make it not cause OOS. that said, i don't know if i ever tested that aspect.
20111216 18:35:04< zookeeper> the item has needs_select=yes, so the previous select event gets transmitted when the item is used
20111216 18:35:10< zookeeper> so it should be ok
20111216 18:37:30< zookeeper> the only reason it's per-case is so that it can show the coordinates in the item name... i probably did that only because i could, it doesn't seem very crucial or anything.
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20111216 19:11:02< Rhonda> zookeeper: Did you see my tutorial turn announce bug? :)
20111216 19:12:09< zookeeper> Rhonda, the one espreon fixed? sure...
20111216 19:13:01< Rhonda> No clue if it was fixed, I wasn't logged in while reporting.
20111216 19:15:51< CIA-85> alink * r52296 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20111216 19:15:51< CIA-85> Re-add image path function ~L() (revert r52284)
20111216 19:15:52< CIA-85> Also adapt it to a recent change and remove an old limitation:
20111216 19:15:52< CIA-85> now the lightmap can have any size and is just resized to the image.
20111216 19:15:52< CIA-85> This make it easy to use ~L() on animated units, making it more useful
20111216 19:16:44< alink> ^because there was some concern about that change ;-)
20111216 19:17:30< alink> the name is still a bit lame, though. (was short because internal and used a lot)
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20111216 19:20:14< alink> re-changed my mind after experimenting with it to get some light effects and found the resize idea to remove its limitation
20111216 19:20:31< alink> some example: http://i.imgur.com/EKvMB.png
20111216 19:20:41< alink> *examples
20111216 19:21:37< alink> note that it's not uniform coloring, so ~CS was not enough to do that
20111216 19:22:03< alink> a artist could probably use a true texture, I just used a color gradient as image
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20111216 19:26:33< shadowmaster> alink: well, L wasn't documented to begin with
20111216 19:27:04< shadowmaster> and it still isn't: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ImagePathFunctionWML
20111216 19:27:22< alink> yes, intentionally, but I will fix that
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20111216 19:28:47< alink> oh we still have ~LIGHTEN() and ~DARKEN() those are old hacks, ~BLIT should replace that :(
20111216 19:30:23< anonymissimus> alink: you can use more of that exception mordante added if applicable
20111216 19:30:32< anonymissimus> it was useful for me
20111216 19:31:24< alink> well, I still think it's better to have IPF more powerful and robust 
20111216 19:33:54< anonymissimus> what should BLIT do in the case that the image below is smaller than the one above in your opinion ?
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20111216 19:36:11< alink> wiki says for ~CS  "Any color-shift is performed before changing opacity or desaturating the graphic (see ~O() and ~GS()). "
20111216 19:36:34< alink> but that's not true, it only does that for ~RC
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20111216 19:36:55< anonymissimus> alink: btw if you find some way to pass the size of an image *after* applying size-modifying IPF that would be very useful
20111216 19:37:21< shadowmaster> alink: it's probably better to remove that note then.
20111216 19:37:41< anonymissimus> currently, when calling wesnoth.get_image_size with image~SCALE and such it returns the size before applying modifications
20111216 19:37:46< alink> shadowmaster: ok just wanted to be sure, since you worked on that order stuff
20111216 19:38:03< anonymissimus> that was quite problematic for me recently
20111216 19:38:04< shadowmaster> I don't remember what it was like anymore, let me check 1.8
20111216 19:38:49< alink> anonymissimus: I am a Lua noob, but I'll try to check if I understand that
20111216 19:39:13< anonymissimus> well ok it is a feature anyway and I already worked around it
20111216 19:39:37< shadowmaster> alink: no special precedence on 1.8, so I assume whoever added that note in the wiki mistook it for RC/TC or intended to change CS's behavior (too late for that)
20111216 19:39:54< shadowmaster> it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either
20111216 19:40:27< shadowmaster> eh, and it seems that person is me
20111216 19:40:32< alink> no, it only make sense for palette changes. I will try to clarify this
20111216 19:40:41< alink> also need to check ~TC
20111216 19:40:59< shadowmaster> yes, I know it makes sense for RC/TC/PAL :)
20111216 19:41:45< shadowmaster> perhaps I copy-pasted the note along with the syntax and example markup in the wiki from one of thsose at that time
20111216 19:45:12< alink> <anonymissimus> currently, when calling wesnoth.get_image_size with image~SCALE and such it returns the size before applying modifications
20111216 19:45:29< alink> ^are you sure, the code seems to use the final image
20111216 19:45:46< anonymissimus> hm yes tested it
20111216 19:46:10< alink> and you pass a string like "img.png~SCALE(5,5)"
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20111216 19:47:42< anonymissimus> alink: um...I dont know what I made wrong or whether I remembered it wrong, right now it works
20111216 19:49:44< alink> ok 
20111216 19:53:04< alink> anonymissimus: using bad parameters like "img.png~SCALE(0,5)" will ignore the scale operation, and give you the original image
20111216 19:53:06< anonymissimus> unfortunately this means I wrote some crap code
20111216 19:54:18< alink> afk
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20111216 20:40:17< Espreon> anonymissimus: No idea.
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20111216 20:43:21< Espreon> anonymissimus: See if it's needed... and if it isn't... kill it.
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20111216 20:59:28< anonymissimus> Espreon: actually, I am about to commit your whole stuff reverted ;)
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20111216 21:01:08< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: is there any particular reason for that you would care to explain?
20111216 21:01:49< anonymissimus> i wrote most of it into the commit message
20111216 21:06:30< anonymissimus> i especially don't like the getter/setter returning/taking a t_string
20111216 21:06:46< anonymissimus> since it internally is just a std::string
20111216 21:06:54< anonymissimus> not a t_string
20111216 21:07:50< Espreon> anonymissimus: No, fix it.
20111216 21:08:28< Espreon> This isn't Lualand, where Mother Moon shines on us all the time, chocolate cake grows like bushes, and everyone's a Lua sage
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20111216 21:09:07< Espreon> ... and where everyone loves Lua.
20111216 21:09:18< anonymissimus> apart from that it seems a bad idea to allow modifying that attribute in the first place
20111216 21:09:52< Espreon> And why's that?
20111216 21:11:38< anonymissimus> because it interferes with multiplayer as I said
20111216 21:12:00< anonymissimus> someone could set it to another player's nick for instance
20111216 21:12:14< anonymissimus> so they'd look the same
20111216 21:12:28< Espreon> There are so many bad things you could do in MP content.
20111216 21:12:33< Espreon> OK?
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20111216 21:12:46< shadowmaster> since you care so much about MP you may as well fix the --debug thing while at it ;)
20111216 21:13:07< Espreon> anonymissimus: It's not a big deal.
20111216 21:13:33< anonymissimus> yeah call me pedantic in any case I am
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52297 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> Revert r52286, 52287 and 52288.
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> 1. The internal type is a std::string, the lua getters/setters should
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> reflect that like all the existing ones already do instead of making
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> implicit conversions.
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> 2. It doesn't make sense to convert the already translated string
20111216 21:13:42< CIA-85> into a t_string again upon getting it.
20111216 21:13:50< Espreon> The hell?
20111216 21:14:10< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52298 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/ (1_Tutorial.cfg 2_Tutorial.cfg): fix bug #19188 the way I envisioned it
20111216 21:14:19< Espreon> anonymissimus: Uh, no.
20111216 21:14:27< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52299 /trunk/changelog: changelog correction
20111216 21:14:43< anonymissimus> I mean you could just have waited a bit to ask how to use it
20111216 21:15:05< anonymissimus> or let me commit
20111216 21:15:22< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: as for --debug, I'm not interested in fixing it
20111216 21:15:24< Espreon> Or you you revert those revisions, bring my stuff back, and fix the representations?
20111216 21:15:38< Espreon> Which either you will do or I will do.
20111216 21:15:49< anonymissimus> representations ?
20111216 21:16:16< Espreon> t_string vs regular string gobbledygook.
20111216 21:17:09< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: I imagine that means I am allowed to fix it
20111216 21:17:14< shadowmaster> good!
20111216 21:17:27< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: --debug working in multiplayer is IMHO a feature not a bug
20111216 21:17:40< shadowmaster> not in my opinion
20111216 21:17:54< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: also, I suggest asking Soliton whether the server can disallow debug mode anyway
20111216 21:18:03< anonymissimus> it looks like it to me
20111216 21:18:22< anonymissimus> as if the MP servers for stable revisions have some flag disallowing it
20111216 21:18:47< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: care to point me to the exact line in the code?
20111216 21:19:02< anonymissimus> containing what ?
20111216 21:19:29< shadowmaster> you are talking about a flag
20111216 21:19:57< anonymissimus> and you were talking about a server configuration script ?
20111216 21:20:11< shadowmaster> I haven't been talking about any script
20111216 21:20:28< anonymissimus> when I connect to the 1.8 server this --debug doesnt work although it should
20111216 21:20:50< anonymissimus> you were talking about it some time ago, not now
20111216 21:21:06< shadowmaster> using the vanilla sources, or some custom modification?
20111216 21:21:45< anonymissimus> I don't use custom modifications
20111216 21:22:13< shadowmaster> -d wasn't supposed to work on 1.8 for networked MP in the first place I believe
20111216 21:22:48< anonymissimus> from what Crab's commits (commit dates) look like it should, just as well as it does in 1.9
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20111216 21:23:18< shadowmaster> and the commit(s) is/are?
20111216 21:23:21< alink> I see a WML define "DEBUG_MODE", so at least WML can detect debug mode
20111216 21:23:38< Gambit> Does that work for each player?
20111216 21:23:40< anonymissimus> but thank you from preventing me to much more easily fix stuff, in any case
20111216 21:23:51< Gambit> I will definitely be announcing cheaters in GambCiv then.
20111216 21:24:15< anonymissimus> alink: that wml define has afaik not really to do with --debug working in multiplayer
20111216 21:24:23< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: I already provided my arguments before.
20111216 21:24:26< Gambit> I think this "feature" is totally bogus.
20111216 21:24:43< shadowmaster> "--debug is dead easy to add to a launcher/shortcut; changing the engine behavior at the source code level is not "
20111216 21:24:53< alink> anonymissimus: yes probably, unless the MP scenario do something about it
20111216 21:25:15< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: as for crab's commits, I dont have them right now nor do I remember them, their revisions or dates
20111216 21:25:17< shadowmaster> and I can't get debug mode to work with -d on a locally hosted 1.8 wesnothd using a 1.8 wesnoth client
20111216 21:25:44< Gambit> The Wesnoth 1.8 client disabled debug mode when going online
20111216 21:26:07< shadowmaster> that's what I thought and that's been the expected behavior since ages
20111216 21:26:44< anonymissimus> it is *extremely* unfortunate if it does that as well for a local wesnothd server
20111216 21:27:36< anonymissimus> I have no idea how could have ever been able to fix the OOS problems without using :inspect in networked multiplayer
20111216 21:27:58< shadowmaster> simple
20111216 21:27:58< Gambit> By not doing things that cause OOS :P
20111216 21:28:15< shadowmaster> here's an idea: a compile-time preprocessor conditional
20111216 21:28:52< Gambit> You're not thinking of the players. I don't like the idea of unleashing this incredibly easy cheating on them just to make add-on authors jobs a little easier
20111216 21:28:58< Gambit> add-on authors are a tiny minority
20111216 21:29:10< Gambit> add-on authors that make MP scenarios even smaller
20111216 21:29:14< Soliton> how does it make cheating easier?
20111216 21:29:19< anonymissimus> perhaps your addon isnt complex enough then
20111216 21:29:22< Gambit> Soliton: :inspect
20111216 21:29:42< Gambit> anonymissimus: Gee. Thanks for making the next point on my list
20111216 21:29:44< Gambit> :)
20111216 21:30:20< Soliton> what amazing things can you do with :inspect to cheat?
20111216 21:30:32< Gambit> You can see the full stats of every unit on the battlefield.
20111216 21:30:51< Gambit> You can see the values of any WML variables
20111216 21:30:57< Soliton> ok, is that easier than loading a save?
20111216 21:31:03< anonymissimus> viewing other people's units, faction without knowing it, the map without fog/shroud
20111216 21:31:22< Soliton> or do you actually think a regular player is able to read that or know about the command?
20111216 21:31:24< anonymissimus> thats the most one can do with debug mode in networked multiplayer without causing OOS
20111216 21:31:45< Gambit> Security through obscurity? :|
20111216 21:32:00< Soliton> that's what you're advocating, no?
20111216 21:32:01< Gambit> And then there's that^ You're adding menu options that look like they should work, but all they actually do is break the game.
20111216 21:32:09< shadowmaster> deliberate OOS-inducing actions could be used to annoy or confuse other players too
20111216 21:32:25 * Gambit tests if this works for observers
20111216 21:32:32< anonymissimus>  the reason for implementing :inspect and making it available at all in networked multiplayer was to solve an OOS problem in the first place
20111216 21:32:43< shadowmaster> Gambit: no, observers can't modify the game state atm
20111216 21:32:48< anonymissimus> which was apparently and engine problem
20111216 21:33:09< anonymissimus> it is a good thing to be able to look deeply into it
20111216 21:34:01< anonymissimus> I would be fine with disabling it on the official server only, if thats feasible
20111216 21:34:19< Soliton> the server has nothing to do with it.
20111216 21:34:38< anonymissimus> then let it
20111216 21:34:43< Gambit> I'd like clients to announce themselves
20111216 21:34:52< Gambit> But that's another string
20111216 21:35:11< anonymissimus> it is way too important for checking the engine and addons for OOS
20111216 21:35:15< Gambit> And it still means the server has to get involved
20111216 21:36:18< anonymissimus> Gambit: I imagine a way you could check each client for debug mode
20111216 21:36:42< anonymissimus> and then warn about it
20111216 21:37:04< Soliton> well, we can make the server tell the client to do stuff and hope the client complies... i just don't like such "soft security" which just makes you think everything should be alright.
20111216 21:37:14< Gambit> What if we made clients that have this enabled add +debug to the version string they send to the server
20111216 21:37:29< Gambit> Then the official server will kick them for having the wrong version of the game.
20111216 21:38:04< Gambit> And there's no new player-facing strings to be translated
20111216 21:38:08< Soliton> then you can just as well have the server tell the client to disable debug mode...
20111216 21:38:24< Soliton> no need for kicking.
20111216 21:38:54 * anonymissimus tries coding a check for debug mode
20111216 21:39:06< Gambit> I'm trying to think of a quick hack that even I could do (if nothing better is found) that won't break the string freeze.
20111216 21:39:44< Soliton> if the idea is that source code modifications are a big enough hurdle than that'd be fine.
20111216 21:40:15< Soliton> i don't see how the string freeze gets involved anywhere.
20111216 21:41:03< Soliton> for the debug mode check you can just look at the commit that removed disabling debug mode in mp.
20111216 21:41:07< Gambit> I think the ideal solution is not to kick them, but to have the server tell everyone else that they have debug mode enabled (similar to when two players have the same IP)
20111216 21:41:23< Soliton> and do what was removed there when the server sends a certain message/command.
20111216 21:41:50< Soliton> what's wrong with the solution i mentioned above?
20111216 21:42:10< Soliton> it's less complicated needs no interaction and gives exactly the same security.
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20111216 21:43:49< Soliton> anyhow, for the server side we need a setting in the config to tell whether the server should send that debug disable command or not.
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20111216 21:44:28< Gambit> Hmmm. Observers can OOS themselves.
20111216 21:49:03< CIA-85> espreon * r52300 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Reverted revision 52297 through 52299; redid revision 52286 right.
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20111216 21:52:28< anonymissimus> ...
20111216 21:53:06< anonymissimus> come on
20111216 21:53:15< anonymissimus> you know I test my stuff...
20111216 21:53:46< Espreon> That may be, but WML should have the ability too.
20111216 21:55:10< anonymissimus> I definitely dont think so
20111216 21:55:27< Espreon> And why not?
20111216 21:57:02< anonymissimus> because somewhen someone will misuse it and make a bug report about it
20111216 21:57:16< anonymissimus> while lua users are expected to be more sane
20111216 21:57:27< Gambit> What?
20111216 21:57:51< Espreon> anonymissimus: And?
20111216 21:59:53< shadowmaster> ^^
20111216 22:01:23< Gambit> I'm going to have to agree with him here. Clearly people that don't use lua can
20111216 22:01:25< Gambit> 't be trusted
20111216 22:01:56< anonymissimus> lol
20111216 22:02:57< anonymissimus> Espreon: that revision message is inappropriate but blargh
20111216 22:03:05< anonymissimus> I let it be
20111216 22:03:14< Espreon> Inappropriate how so?
20111216 22:03:50< anonymissimus> you said you reverted my revisions but actually only readded the wml-modifyability
20111216 22:04:35< Espreon> Well, I did revert your changes to the tutorial.
20111216 22:04:46< Espreon> And I did revert the removal, so...
20111216 22:04:52< shadowmaster> that's inaccurate more than inappropriate
20111216 22:05:16< anonymissimus> +1 for shadowmaster 
20111216 22:05:23< anonymissimus> as usual
20111216 22:06:12< Espreon> Well, it all goes back to "evil hath been slain", so blarghity.
20111216 22:16:20< anonymissimus> Soliton: I'm ok with your proposal
20111216 22:16:37< anonymissimus> (back to debug mode issue)
20111216 22:17:18< anonymissimus> however, someone needs to do that and that would be someone who has a problem with the current situation
20111216 22:18:19< Soliton> :-)
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20111216 22:18:50 * Soliton is fine with the situation as is.
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20111216 22:30:09< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: a define controlling it is a bad idea, that would 1. require a rebuilt 2. be a local modification to a versioned file which i don't want to commit 3. be only accessible to people able to compile
20111216 22:31:19< anonymissimus> (I'm sure you knew that though)
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20111216 22:49:10< anonymissimus> Gambit: such code http://pastebin.com/MEcvHcgp checks for debug mode
20111216 22:49:23< anonymissimus> call that tag from a side turn event
20111216 22:50:07< anonymissimus>  with first_time_only=no; it's still possible to enable/disable it mid-turn though, what's needed probably is the mp_debug value
20111216 22:50:48< anonymissimus> one could make it more likely to catch cheaters by calling it from a name=side turn, moveto,attack,..etc event
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20111216 23:18:58< anonymissimus> Gambit: we could add a wesnoth.game_config.mp_debug boolean, if it is false you can with the check above be sure that nobody can have debug mode enabled at any time in a mp game
20111216 23:19:29< anonymissimus> so thats the check you proposed the server should do and this is quickly and easy to add
20111216 23:20:03< anonymissimus> disallowing debug mode in networked multiplayer eally beats the whole purpose of :inspect etc
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20111216 23:35:37< Soliton> how would the server do such a check?
20111216 23:42:05< anonymissimus> the server does nothing
20111216 23:42:45< anonymissimus> does not need to do anything, I just got it working nicely win my addon, by only adding a lua ccessor to game_config::debug
20111216 23:43:02< anonymissimus> game_config::mp_debug I mean
20111216 23:43:45< Soliton> how does that help anyone not using your addon?
20111216 23:44:12< anonymissimus> nobody; but it helps Gambit with cheaters in his addon :P
20111216 23:44:44< anonymissimus> but the functionality could be added to the default era for instance
20111216 23:45:35< Gambit> If nobody smarter than me fixes it the right way, I will do my quick hack of changing the version string, and - for at least 1.10.x - that'll be that
20111216 23:46:20< anonymissimus> Gambit: you please either fix it the way Soliton suggests or let it be
20111216 23:46:28 * Soliton nods.
20111216 23:47:19< Soliton> i'll be glad to answer questions about implementation details.
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 17 00:00:32 2011