--- Log opened Tue Dec 20 00:00:52 2011
20111220 00:01:19-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20111220 00:07:26< Ivanovic> boucman: yes, finally
20111220 00:07:37< Ivanovic> but hey, the deadline is approaching rapidly
20111220 00:07:41< boucman> :)
20111220 00:07:52< Ivanovic> not sure if i should send in some talk or wait till after the deadline if there are enough proposals or not
20111220 00:08:28< Ivanovic> (my proposal would probably be something like "how to be helpful for your translators" with a topic like "why recommending using a babelfish ain't enough")
20111220 00:10:09< boucman> maybe something how "big strings" are different from a translation point of view, literrary problems, how to handle regional accents etc...
20111220 00:10:24< boucman> but yes, wait till the end, so you see what's coming...
20111220 00:10:34< boucman> sleep time, see you later
20111220 00:10:38< stikonas> btw, when will release announcement be written?
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20111220 00:11:05< stikonas> that is for version 1.10
20111220 00:11:46< Samual> I hate versioning where 1.10 is greater than 1.9
20111220 00:11:56< Samual> just saying
20111220 00:12:05< shadowmaster> version numbers aren't decimals
20111220 00:12:16< Samual> They should be, imo
20111220 00:12:44< shadowmaster> you'll need to convince thousands of projects about that
20111220 00:13:03< Samual> too lazy
20111220 00:13:24< shadowmaster> *shrug*
20111220 00:13:28< Samual> though to be fair, my own project has... interesting versioning anyway
20111220 00:13:57< Samual> (Xonotic) -- Went from 0.1, to 0.5, and now to 0.6... then later we'll go to 0.9 and then 1.0 :P 
20111220 00:14:03< Soliton> in other languages 1.9 can't be decimal at all.
20111220 00:14:12< anonymissimus> Sapient: ??? how do you come to remove the multiplayer_safety section in the wiki ?
20111220 00:14:27< Ivanovic> stikonas: yeah, that one still needs work, though there is already a rough (very rough!) skelleton text
20111220 00:14:38< anonymissimus> you should at least provide some info on why you removed it...
20111220 00:14:41< Ivanovic> stikonas: if you know some good text and points to add: please feel free to comment!
20111220 00:15:02< shadowmaster> indeed, the decimal separator in my language is the comma
20111220 00:15:11< Ivanovic> this is the current version: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/website/start/1.10/template.html
20111220 00:15:21< Samual> Oh that's an interesting idea
20111220 00:15:33< Ivanovic> Samual: in german the decimal seperator is , while . seperates the 1000
20111220 00:15:35< Samual> You guys have the release announcements and such public for editing/suggestions?
20111220 00:15:50< shadowmaster> Samual: no
20111220 00:15:54< Ivanovic> Samual: not for public editing, but at least openly available
20111220 00:15:57< Samual> Ivanovic: futball play we better than you
20111220 00:16:12< shadowmaster> only people with commit access may make modifications to the announcement in SVN directly
20111220 00:16:14< Samual> well, not public editing-- but, yes
20111220 00:16:18< Samual> with commit access
20111220 00:16:20< anonymissimus> Soliton: could you please look at this wiki edit by Sapient whether that is right, 14:09, 19 December 2011 Sapient (Talk | contribs) (27,723 bytes) (removed confusing/wrong "Multiplayer safety" section) 
20111220 00:16:33< Samual> That's actually a really good idea, though
20111220 00:16:35< Ivanovic> Samual: yeah, the "main" announcement can be edited by everyone with commit access
20111220 00:16:42< Ivanovic> (and they are translateable!)
20111220 00:16:50< Ivanovic> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/website/start/1.10/
20111220 00:16:56< Samual> In Xonotic it is very few people who write the announcements and such
20111220 00:16:56< Soliton> anonymissimus: EventWML?
20111220 00:16:58< Samual> Usually just me, even
20111220 00:17:01< anonymissimus> yes
20111220 00:17:15< Samual> which is a pain the ass -- if you do it alone, it can take a full day to perfect it
20111220 00:17:18< anonymissimus> Soliton: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=EventWML&action=history
20111220 00:17:32< Ivanovic> Samual: for the first announcement of a stable release we try to go for one where all areas are somehow represented and I alone don't know all the stuff (simple as that)
20111220 00:17:58< Ivanovic> Samual: that is: in the old days we had a completely different approach to encourage translations:
20111220 00:17:58< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: as a type, you can click on the (prev) link at the left to get the diff to the previous revision
20111220 00:18:06< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: er, tip
20111220 00:18:08< Samual> ah, well, usually us developers build a list of changes and key features and such and I work around it
20111220 00:18:10< Ivanovic> 1) the release manager would prepare the announcement text
20111220 00:18:32< Samual> Also: Our entire game is translated, and we have people who translate the announcements prior to the actual release
20111220 00:18:36< Ivanovic> 2) if a translation managed to be completely done (for the first time) they got to translate the announcement and have it first posted in their language for some days
20111220 00:18:37< Samual> (ideally :P)
20111220 00:18:49< Ivanovic> only some days later the announcement was published in english, too
20111220 00:19:01< Ivanovic> (to encourage translation teams to complete the translation)
20111220 00:19:29< Samual> yeah
20111220 00:19:34< Ivanovic> stikonas: i plan to make sure to have the announcement text completed around christmas
20111220 00:19:43< Soliton> anonymissimus: no clue what he's on about. we could wait a bit for an explanation and then revert.
20111220 00:20:07< Samual> *sigh* it's sad -- most other projects I know of are scrambling to make their release around Christmas
20111220 00:20:10< Samual> But, we can't
20111220 00:20:12< Ivanovic> stikonas: so that you at least have more than a week to get the text done (though most things will be similar to the last announcements, just requiring some updates where version numbers and the likes are involved)
20111220 00:20:21< Samual> I got sick, and now the whole release is delayed a month :P
20111220 00:20:26< stikonas> Ivanovic: I'm probably more interesting in translating it
20111220 00:20:29< Ivanovic> Samual: wesnoth won't make it for christmas either
20111220 00:20:43< Ivanovic> stikonas: before you are able to translate it you need to have some text
20111220 00:20:56< Samual> oh? can I be a bastard and say "good, so i'm not the only one? :D"
20111220 00:21:10< Ivanovic> Samual: though i was basically expecting this
20111220 00:21:17< Ivanovic> my main goal is to be done before the next gsoc starts
20111220 00:21:31< Ivanovic> with "earliest day for 1.10 is around christmas"
20111220 00:21:33< Samual> Have you guys gotten support from GSOC before?
20111220 00:22:18< Ivanovic> we have been a project in gsoc for the last 4 years
20111220 00:22:55< Samual> Ah, we applied last year but got denied as we were too late 
20111220 00:23:15< Ivanovic> yes, an important point about gsoc is to follow deadlines
20111220 00:23:26< Ivanovic> and keep an eye on all the formal stuff involved
20111220 00:23:34< Samual> very much so
20111220 00:23:41< Samual> It was a ton of work last time
20111220 00:23:46< Samual> not sure I'm going to apply this year
20111220 00:24:06< Ivanovic> most of this stuff is a one time effort with just requiring you to polish it up the year afterwards
20111220 00:24:23< Ivanovic> though you do need the help of the other devs
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20111220 00:24:42< Samual> true, but my time is stretched ANYWAY haha
20111220 00:25:27< Samual> see what I really need is someone specifically to handle PR and such stuff individually
20111220 00:25:36< Ivanovic> during the last gsoc i was working on my diploma thesis, so yeah, my time was stretched, too
20111220 00:25:42< Samual> It's bad when one of the lead programmers has to also do all the PR work 
20111220 00:25:50< Ivanovic> but since the other devs were *great* and doing lots of stuff this was possible overall
20111220 00:26:30< Samual> how many core contributing developers does Wesnoth have btw?
20111220 00:26:39< Ivanovic> ugh, hard to say
20111220 00:27:20< Ivanovic> i''d say something between 10 to 20 that form the "inner core" though activity depends on stuff like real life
20111220 00:28:03< anonymissimus> Soliton: I remember that in my addon I had to replace side turn end events with side turn ones due to that stuff
20111220 00:28:13< Ivanovic> (yes, with these numbers i am also counting art folks as well as the freaking lazy release manager)
20111220 00:28:23< anonymissimus> so seems clearly wrong
20111220 00:28:43< Ivanovic> the numbers do *not* include translators since i have no way to estimate how many are really active there though i know that translation work is a shitload of stuff
20111220 00:28:50< Samual> Interesting, with Xonotic it's 7 core people and then various minor contributors -- then the community for maps/art/audio of course.
20111220 00:29:22< Ivanovic> yes, my number includes work on "mainline" content (like the included campaigns and artwork) and is not limited to c++ code
20111220 00:29:25< Samual> Translators are always a pain, we have a system to manage them via emails and we rarely get more than 40% actually completing translations when we request
20111220 00:29:51< Ivanovic> requesting translations is probably a bad way to do things
20111220 00:29:57< Ivanovic> and yes, we are working via mail there, too
20111220 00:30:16< Ivanovic> with some "commit gateways" (the main one being me) to update the files and make sure they "compile"
20111220 00:30:49< Ivanovic> what is important for translators is to tell them as early as possible what makes sense to work on
20111220 00:30:52< Samual> Well, usually what happens is there are a whole bunch of menu/client changes which get piled up in separate branches
20111220 00:31:00< Samual> Then we merge them ~a month before release
20111220 00:31:12< Ivanovic> eg if you can complete some areas early and tell translators "hey, work on this aspect" you got a good base
20111220 00:31:31< Samual> And that means the translators only have a month (or, really 3 weeks normally) to get the translations done
20111220 00:31:33< Ivanovic> and some time before you want to do a "major" release warn the translators and provide a string freeze
20111220 00:31:40< Samual> yes
20111220 00:31:49< Ivanovic> ah, this is too hardcore, really
20111220 00:31:53< Ivanovic> one of the reasons for us to differ between stable and dev
20111220 00:32:06< Ivanovic> stable is a fixed platform for umc devs and translators
20111220 00:32:23< Samual> (umc?)
20111220 00:32:23< Ivanovic> if they did not make it for the initial stable release they can still catch up with the later releases
20111220 00:32:28< Ivanovic> usermade content
20111220 00:32:33< Samual> oh, I see
20111220 00:33:04< Ivanovic> since we provide a "language" of our own with its own macros as well as an addon server it makes sense to eventually provide a fixed api for a while
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20111220 00:33:57< Samual> ah
20111220 00:34:25< Samual> but well, at least the important translations get done quickly for us
20111220 00:34:29< Ivanovic> eg we had the 1.8 series out for almost 2 years now
20111220 00:34:44< Samual> like german and russian
20111220 00:34:45< Ivanovic> the last release in this stream being middle of last year
20111220 00:34:54< Ivanovic> http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?version=branch&package=alloff
20111220 00:35:08< Ivanovic> if you look at the stats you see that only a fraction of all started translations are complete
20111220 00:35:18< Ivanovic> though wesnoth is a *freaking* large beast
20111220 00:35:44< Samual> that actually is very very similar to ours
20111220 00:36:28< Samual> What's up with Portuguese :P We had one translator show up and do like 50% of it for our initial release
20111220 00:36:32< Ivanovic> 15k strings? several being multi paragraph?
20111220 00:36:33< Samual> now it's the worst of them all
20111220 00:36:43< Samual> We have roughly 9k strings, I think
20111220 00:36:48< Ivanovic> that is: some of those are basically a complete din a4 page if you print them
20111220 00:36:55< Ivanovic> yeah, for a *single* string
20111220 00:37:04< Samual> but, when I said similar,
20111220 00:37:09< Samual> I meant the representation on the chart
20111220 00:37:18< Samual> not the amount of work to be done
20111220 00:37:30< Ivanovic> the 100% translated german translation of 1.8 (the po files) consume 4.8MB on my harddrive
20111220 00:38:35< Ivanovic> the completely untranslated files for "Friulian" in trunk (what will soon be 1.10) only have 3.5MB
20111220 00:39:25< Ivanovic> okay, there are also some comments in the po files (automatically extracted stuff), but still, ebooks with several thousand pages need less discspace
20111220 00:39:44< Samual> hehe
20111220 00:40:26< Ivanovic> eg all the harry potter books as epub need <3MB
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20111220 00:42:34< Ivanovic> so hell, this is a lot to get done in a rather short time
20111220 00:43:22< Samual> I wonder how many typos the game has
20111220 00:43:25< Samual> :P
20111220 00:43:28< Ivanovic> ah, perfect, found a way to diff stuff easily
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20111220 00:43:53< Ivanovic> the plain pot files got 3.5MB, the en_GB translation, which is basically the same regarding the strings, got 4.9MB
20111220 00:44:04< Ivanovic> so 1.4MB of "strings to translate"
20111220 00:44:18< Ivanovic> should be easy enough to translate this into the number of characters used
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20111220 00:57:04< Ivanovic> anyway, time for some sleep, n8
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20111220 01:16:50< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52343 /trunk/ (6 files in 6 dirs): 
20111220 01:16:50< CIA-85> disable entry point to zaroth's project for the stable release
20111220 01:16:50< CIA-85> This commit is meant to be reverted once that this project continues.
20111220 01:16:50< CIA-85> Removes test_campaign from data/campaigns, commented out --new-syntax
20111220 01:16:50< CIA-85> commandline parameter and disabled boost test for said parameter.
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20111220 04:51:31< Alarantalara> OS X package is finally uploaded. I've tested it on 10.4 and 10.6 and it should work in 10.7 as well
20111220 04:51:40< Alarantalara> Ivanovic: ^
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20111220 05:10:59< vultraz> YES! Mac OS X package :D :D
20111220 05:11:33< shadowmaster> That's the sprit!
20111220 05:11:41< shadowmaster> I mean 'spirit'.
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20111220 11:10:03< Ivanovic> moin
20111220 11:11:26< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: you should probably also remove this stuff from the manpage
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20111220 12:22:34< shadowmaster> AI0867: you might want to check the posts leading to http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=32091&p=516378#p516378
20111220 12:22:44< shadowmaster> since I really don't know what you people are up to anymore
20111220 12:23:04< shadowmaster> Ivanovic too
20111220 12:34:12< elias> wasn't there something about addon translations moving to a git repository on the mailing list?
20111220 12:35:31 * Ivanovic is running svn st on the wescamp checkout at wesnoth.org to make sure it is not locked or something like this because of a crash
20111220 12:38:05< shadowm_laptop> exactly. I heard the git migration was completed, so why are you still using a svn checkout?
20111220 12:38:48< Ivanovic> because i got no idea how the new setup is supposed to work, where it is and how to update the scripts
20111220 12:39:06< shadowm_laptop> ...
20111220 12:39:13< Ivanovic> so relax!
20111220 12:39:33< vultraz> Git is confising
20111220 12:39:39< vultraz> confusing*
20111220 12:39:45< shadowm_laptop> vultraz: not really
20111220 12:39:46< Ivanovic> yes, wescamp was *always* something i tried to keep as far away from as possible (since you have to draw lines regarding what you do and what you don't do)
20111220 12:39:56< Ivanovic> vultraz: git ain't the problem here at all
20111220 12:40:19< vultraz> ah ok
20111220 12:40:48< elias> you're a git
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20111220 12:41:08< vultraz> shadowm_laptop: well if you know how to use it, then I guess it wouldn't be
20111220 12:41:23< vultraz> ;)
20111220 12:41:26< shadowm_laptop> vultraz: and you think I was born knowing how to use Git?
20111220 12:41:58< vultraz> shadowm_laptop: I think you're a computer wizard 
20111220 12:41:59< shadowm_laptop> to clarify: it isn't so confusing if you take the time to *learn* (and forget about some of the crap SVN taught you)
20111220 12:42:53< vultraz> well I have to use it for my FlightGear source build, and I never really know what I'm doing
20111220 12:43:18< vultraz> even after getting help and reading the wiki
20111220 12:43:21< vultraz> a lot
20111220 12:43:54< shadowm_laptop> we were at this before and I told you I can't understand what you need to learn beyond using pull and checkout as an end-user of that software.
20111220 12:44:10< shadowm_laptop> (and the initial clone)
20111220 12:44:43< Ivanovic> shadowm_laptop: since i try to not get involved in wescamp at all i also have no idea regarding the status
20111220 12:45:31< shadowm_laptop> that's a little unfortunate since I've been unable to reach AI0867 for four days
20111220 12:45:32< Ivanovic> though once the stuff is migrated to git, the migration *really* completed and all that stuff AI0867 might want to talk to crimson_penguin about the scripts used to generate g.w.o so that they are updated, too (or handle it himself, i already told him where they are to be found)
20111220 12:45:54< vultraz> shadowm_laptop: well, I suppose this was before I knew a lot about version control stuff
20111220 12:46:02< vultraz> I know a bit more now
20111220 12:46:10< vultraz> so I suppose I might not get as lost
20111220 12:46:12< shadowm_laptop> vultraz: doesn't answer my main concern!
20111220 12:46:22< vultraz> I'm just saying....
20111220 12:46:24< vultraz> :S
20111220 12:46:27 * vultraz leaves
20111220 12:46:56 * vultraz wonders how he always ends up annoying shadowmaster
20111220 12:47:18< shadowm_laptop> shikadibot: hug vultraz 
20111220 12:47:19 * shikadibot hugs vultraz
20111220 12:48:28< elias> Espreon: btw, the drake warrior you asked about some time ago, the problem is that TeamColorizer ignores the alpha channel
20111220 12:48:29< vultraz> :)
20111220 12:48:44< elias> so all pixels which have one of the magenta colors get colorized
20111220 12:48:49< elias> even if their alpha is 0
20111220 12:49:13< elias> i suppose it will fix itself the next time pngcrush is run (which removes pixels with alpha 0)
20111220 12:49:34< shadowm_laptop> we don't use pngcrush anymore
20111220 12:50:33< elias> hm. and teamcolorizer just calls image magick which i have no idea how it works
20111220 12:50:52< shadowm_laptop> that is, we use optipng with non-destructive settings
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20111220 12:53:09< elias> this is what the .png looks like with the alpha channel removed :P http://i41.tinypic.com/255t8bt.jpg
20111220 12:54:26< Ivanovic> good reminder, i will now run wesnoth-optipng
20111220 12:54:50< elias> turn on destructive for drake-warrior.png :)
20111220 12:55:16< Ivanovic> there is no "commandline switch" for something like this
20111220 12:55:17< Ivanovic> ;)
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20111220 17:31:21< CIA-85> zookeeper * r52344 /trunk/data/campaigns/The_Rise_Of_Wesnoth/images/portraits/shekkahan.png: Updated Shek'kahan's portrait to pixelmind's latest version.
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20111220 17:35:20< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52345 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/forest/tropical-tile.png: 
20111220 17:35:21< CIA-85> applied utils/wesnoth-optipng:
20111220 17:35:21< CIA-85> Overall statistics (only for files with a smaller recompressed size):
20111220 17:35:21< CIA-85> Original size: 14 KiB on 1 files
20111220 17:35:21< CIA-85> Optimized size: 14 KiB
20111220 17:35:21< CIA-85> Total saving: 0 KiB = 0% decrease
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20111220 20:28:29< CIA-85> anonymissimus * r52346 /trunk/data/campaigns/tutorial/scenarios/ (1_Tutorial.cfg 2_Tutorial.cfg): (log message trimmed)
20111220 20:28:29< CIA-85> Remove current_player= setting and add save_id=human_player (fix for bug #19188)
20111220 20:28:29< CIA-85> This causes statistics, scenario overwiew and turn dialog to show
20111220 20:28:29< CIA-85> the save_id instead of current_player. This doesn't break stringfreeze
20111220 20:28:29< CIA-85> since save_id isn't translatable. Any bug report complaints about
20111220 20:28:29< CIA-85> these dialogs no longer showing player name's translation shall
20111220 20:28:30< CIA-85> be rejected. >:|
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20111220 20:31:22< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: I dunno anything about manpages...
20111220 20:31:36< anonymissimus> wesbot: topic
20111220 20:31:37-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.13, announcing "soon" | String/feature-freeze active for trunk | 156 bugs, 328 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20111220 20:42:53< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: doc/man/wesnoth.6
20111220 20:43:05< Ivanovic> please open it with an editor or ask someone else to remove the documented parameter
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20111220 20:51:30< anonymissimus> eyey the MSVC project files there probably haven't been touched since ages...
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20111220 20:52:08< anonymissimus> no sry someone else pls do that
20111220 20:52:39< loonycyborg> What parameter?
20111220 20:56:41< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: at least --new-syntax (or the likes), no idea if anything more
20111220 20:57:59< loonycyborg> r52343?
20111220 20:59:30< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: what is displayed now in the tutorial in the turn dialog
20111220 20:59:57< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: because the *displayed* string, uhm, yeah, should be translateable and a new untranslateable but very user visible string *is* a bug...
20111220 20:59:59< Ivanovic> ;)
20111220 21:04:58< CIA-85> loonycyborg * r52347 /trunk/doc/man/wesnoth.6: Remove --new-syntax from the man page.
20111220 21:09:14< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: ^, perhaps you should check whether I messed up the syntax or something :P
20111220 21:09:20< loonycyborg> Though unlikely.
20111220 21:12:14< Espreon> elias: I see.
20111220 21:12:43< elias> maybe could ask whoever wrote TeamColorizer to fix it
20111220 21:14:16< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: but this bug was always present then and is not a tutorial bug
20111220 21:14:55< Espreon> anonymissimus: Ya know, you could have waited to fix it properly...
20111220 21:15:43< anonymissimus> if I wasnt chained by the string freeze then current_player could bet set to _"human player" instead
20111220 21:15:47< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: so, will you announce 1.9.13 now?
20111220 21:16:01< Espreon> anonymissimus: ... But that'd be the lame way to fix it.
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20111220 21:17:15< anonymissimus> if esr would close bugs which he considers nto worth keeping around like he did in the past then that'd be a candidate
20111220 21:17:19< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: tomorrow
20111220 21:17:42< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: may I know why?
20111220 21:17:50< Espreon> anonymissimus: That is, it'd still be a pathetic way to "fix" it.
20111220 21:17:59< shadowmaster> from what I hear the MP server already requires 1.9.13, which means 1.9.12 users may get confused
20111220 21:18:04< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: because i feel too tired now, got to eat something first and will then most likely fall down on my bed
20111220 21:18:09< Ivanovic> oh, it does?
20111220 21:18:14< shadowmaster> yes
20111220 21:18:19< Ivanovic> i thought 1.9.12 and 1.9.13 would be compatible...
20111220 21:18:40< shadowmaster> there's one change that will cause OOS, which is a XP change
20111220 21:18:48< Espreon> Indeed.
20111220 21:18:55< shadowmaster> https://gna.org/bugs/?19196
20111220 21:19:53< Ivanovic> outsch
20111220 21:20:44< anonymissimus> if current_player isn't set for a side in singleplayer, then the statistics, scenario overwiew and turn change dialog show the save_id, this has always been a bug since I started using a save_id back in 2009 or so
20111220 21:21:09< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: i never said it would be a new issue
20111220 21:21:20< Ivanovic> what i said is basically that all uservisible strings should be translateable
20111220 21:21:27< Ivanovic> especially something saying "it is your turn"
20111220 21:22:30< anonymissimus> that dialog was targeted at multiplayer probably where it makes more sense and where it automatically shows the player's nick
20111220 21:32:16< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: okay, i at least updated the version on the frontpage as well as on the downloads page in the wiki
20111220 21:33:36< shadowmaster> k
20111220 21:36:52< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52348 /trunk/players_changelog: ups, forgot the +svn here...
20111220 21:42:36< Ivanovic> release announcement post: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35687
20111220 21:43:05< Ivanovic> please check it carefully for issues since i am likely to have added several mistakes (being close to falling down and sleeping for some rather lenghty time...)
20111220 21:43:06-!- stikonas [~and@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20111220 21:45:53< Ivanovic> and posted a news entry on the frontpage
20111220 21:46:02-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: String/feature-freeze active for trunk | 156 bugs, 328 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20111220 21:47:58< anonymissimus> I get the untranslated save_id in DM shown as well...
20111220 21:48:35-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20111220 21:50:27< Ivanovic> UGH, this sucks
20111220 21:50:38< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: I'm editing the announcement, but for the record, lightning isn't the same as lighting
20111220 21:50:55< Ivanovic> like i said, close to just falling down...
20111220 21:56:13< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52349 /trunk/RELEASE_NOTES: empty the release_notes post announcement (1.9.13)
20111220 22:10:22-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-113-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ...]
20111220 22:10:47-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@ppp59-167-222-56.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20111220 22:34:25< anonymissimus> these many compatibility-breaking changes aren't helpful in increasing the player numbers on the MP servers
20111220 22:34:51< anonymissimus> if I'd need to download 300mB each time to be able to continue playing...
20111220 22:35:11< shadowmaster> ...
20111220 22:35:25< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: which is the reason why i asked for keeping compatibility with the start of the betas...
20111220 22:35:53< anonymissimus> well perhaps it is more useful to *not* fix such a bug, since it increases testing to find the more important ones
20111220 22:36:17< Ivanovic> yes, you are right with this
20111220 22:36:20< shadowmaster> I don't see how one thing is relevant to the other.
20111220 22:36:31< shadowmaster> The betas don't receive much attention from MP users simply because of bad publicity, period.
20111220 22:37:05< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: what would better publicity be?
20111220 22:37:21< Ivanovic> i sadly don't see how to encourage player to actually use the 1.10 beta versions
20111220 22:37:31< shadowmaster> Gambit is the PR man, not I.
20111220 22:37:36< Ivanovic> that is: besides simply shutting down the 1.8 servers and saying "use 1.10"
20111220 22:37:38< shadowmaster> I'm sure he has some ideas.
20111220 22:37:42< anonymissimus> well for MP players on windows with no super-fast-connection this is certainly a major hindrance
20111220 22:38:12< shadowmaster> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Download#Development_.281.9_branch.29 is a good starting point, anyway.
20111220 22:38:27< anonymissimus> on Linux I imagine that updating parts of the whole thing (wesnoth-core etc) may be enough
20111220 22:38:44< shadowmaster> "heavy changes"? what heavy changes? that's clearly a generic blurb that doesn't take betas or RCs into account
20111220 22:38:57< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: it is a wiki and you are free to update it!
20111220 22:39:22< shadowmaster> I was planning to do so later today, actually, but I've got my own agenda too.
20111220 22:40:17< shadowmaster> Another possibility would be simply posting a forum GA and moving development over stable in the site front page
20111220 22:40:53< Ivanovic> GA?
20111220 22:41:03< shadowmaster> As for the download sizes, source users have Xdeltas, Mac OS X users tend to be the kind who have powerful connections, and I wish we still had zaroth for the Windows users
20111220 22:41:10< shadowmaster> Global Announcement
20111220 22:41:41< shadowmaster> Or better yet, change the "Development" labels to "Beta"
20111220 22:44:05< anonymissimus> perhaps a script which causes the 1.8 server to be randomly down as opposed to the 1.9 one could help xD
20111220 22:45:06< shadowmaster> In fact, now that I think of it... have we ever issued a public call for testers?
20111220 22:45:59< shadowmaster> Or do we use the inefficient approach of making releases and release announcements and hoping people playing on stable will pay attention to anything beyond the second digit in the version number?
20111220 22:46:44< Gambit> A big thing is that people just don't want to redownload every two weeks.
20111220 22:47:14< Gambit> The gna cert warning is scary to people who do test and find bugs.
20111220 22:47:16< shadowmaster> it would make sense to delay the next release a little more if it's going to be the first RC
20111220 22:47:27< shadowmaster> Gambit: that theoretically what we have the forums for
20111220 22:47:32< shadowmaster> BUT!
20111220 22:48:17< Gambit> Also, prehyping the releases would be good.
20111220 22:48:44< shadowmaster> that doesn't make a lot of sense in beta phase since it's supposed to be only bug fixes
20111220 22:48:53< Gambit> I know the schedules are tentative, but pre-announcing them gets people excited and lets them plan for that big download.
20111220 22:49:22< Gambit> shadowmaster: Yeah but people who play the dev releases are more likely to play the beta ones.
20111220 22:50:39< anonymissimus> I don't think there ever was a "public call for testers"
20111220 22:50:58< anonymissimus> the release announcement posts were the most
20111220 22:52:21< shadowmaster> maybe we could also announce new releases in the MP server MoTD for people who don't watch the forums
20111220 22:52:51 * Ivanovic at least remembers a time when the latest versions were always mentioned in the MOTD
20111220 22:52:58< Ivanovic> no idea what is the case these days
20111220 22:54:56< shadowmaster> yeah, it's no longer the case on stable at least
20111220 22:55:26< Ivanovic> :(
20111220 22:55:48< Ivanovic> Soliton: what do you think of issuing a "call for testers" via the motd of the 1.8.x mp serverß
20111220 22:55:54< Ivanovic> s/ß/?
20111220 22:56:52< anonymissimus> a lancer or deathblade is very unlikely to level in multiplaye...more unlikely than other causes of OOS
20111220 22:57:15< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: unlikely but not impossible (add-ons, experience modifiers, Age of Heroes)
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20111220 23:04:12< Samual> Gambit: BTW, let me know if you need any help setting up with desura
20111220 23:04:22< Samual> I was the one who went through the pain of building the releases and such for it
20111220 23:04:44< Samual> (setting up command arguments, user directories, etc)
20111220 23:04:54< Gambit> Well, there's not agreement yet that Wesnoth will go on there. :(
20111220 23:06:38< Samual> join #desura and ask away if you're really that concerned
20111220 23:06:49< Samual> but, we saw no conflict with the licensing 
20111220 23:07:18< Samual> iirc, the only terms which WOULD conflict is if you processed the game and sold it under their terms
20111220 23:11:14< Soliton> Ivanovic: sounds good.
20111220 23:26:46< Soliton> updated the 1.8 motd.
20111220 23:27:23-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20111220 23:28:32< Soliton> if we want to get more aggressive we could also periodically send a similar server message.
20111220 23:29:36< Soliton> maybe point out some bugs in 1.8 that are fixed in 1.9. ;-)
20111220 23:30:39 * Soliton will gladly setup the periodic
20111220 23:30:57< Soliton> message sending if someone provides the message content.
20111220 23:33:37< anonymissimus> Soliton: good job btw
20111220 23:33:46-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-14-215-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20111220 23:34:04 * anonymissimus is happy that at least my problem analysis seemed correct
20111220 23:34:21< anonymissimus> though my code is completely gone again ;)
20111220 23:34:42 * anonymissimus agrees that it looks better now though
20111220 23:35:02< Soliton> good. :-)
20111220 23:35:23< fendrin> hi
20111220 23:38:46< anonymissimus> Soliton: and I think that you should announce the bugs being fixed yes
20111220 23:46:18-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20111220 23:49:36< fendrin> hi boucman
20111220 23:49:46< boucman> hey
20111220 23:54:35< fendrin> boucman: http://imagebin.org/189596 new theme I am working on. Heavily icon based.
20111220 23:55:07< boucman> interesting...
20111220 23:55:22< boucman> probably call it "expert" theme or something like that...
20111220 23:56:00< fendrin> yeah, definitely not suited for new users...
--- Log closed Wed Dec 21 00:00:52 2011