--- Log opened Fri Dec 23 00:00:15 2011 20111223 00:02:54-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 00:10:14-!- Filar [~Mussious@dgb81.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111223 00:19:38-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 00:52:54-!- Faux-kun [HydraIRC@112.205.149.191] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 00:53:42-!- MeccaGod [~majs@host189-199.bornet.net] has quit [] 20111223 01:05:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:16:08-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:30:24-!- Cyber_Rock1 [~lenovoi@115.242.109.5] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:32:49-!- negusnyul_ [~negusnyul@BC244FA6.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 01:34:06-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111223 01:34:18-!- Cyber_Rock1 is now known as Cyber_Rock 20111223 01:34:35-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@115.242.109.5] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 01:34:35-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:35:46-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:41:24-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20111223 01:50:40-!- mthe878 [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:50:40-!- mthe878 [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 01:50:40-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:53:03-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.161.21.150] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 01:53:41-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 02:00:02-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20111223 02:00:41-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has left #wesnoth [] 20111223 02:01:43-!- Narrat [~omnius@p5B17FD46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20111223 02:09:48-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 02:13:02-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111223 02:16:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 02:37:31-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin] 20111223 02:37:41-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@184.71.170.250] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 02:37:41-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@184.71.170.250] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 02:37:41-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 02:42:08-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 02:51:17-!- NightWolf- [~NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has quit [Quit: [13:22:21] boah red nich immer so scheisse daher! Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! Wenns keinen was angeht gehts keinen was an, und wenns auf der hp stehen würde] 20111223 03:04:13-!- mthe878 [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 03:04:13-!- mthe878 [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 03:04:13-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 03:05:27-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111223 03:11:36-!- Nissarin [~nissarin@91.202.192.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111223 03:22:45-!- Vorpal [~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20111223 03:31:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20111223 03:37:34-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 03:48:51-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 03:50:58-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20111223 03:53:19-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20111223 03:59:02-!- mthe878 [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 03:59:03-!- mthe878 [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 03:59:03-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 04:12:33-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@210.14.78.139] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 04:21:26-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2aa37.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 04:21:26-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@dtmd-4db2aa37.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 04:21:26-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 04:25:02-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111223 04:25:27-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic 20111223 04:57:39-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-198-228-226-162.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 04:58:21-!- faux [HydraIRC@112.205.149.191] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 05:01:09-!- Faux-kun [HydraIRC@112.205.149.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 05:01:09-!- faux is now known as Faux-kun 20111223 05:37:32-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-198-228-226-162.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Smell ya later!] 20111223 05:43:18-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@210.14.78.139] has left #wesnoth [] 20111223 05:49:53-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 05:52:30-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 06:06:30-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@58.145.143.65] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 06:07:03-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70-59-112-42.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 06:09:13-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@58.145.143.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 06:09:25-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70-59-112-42.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20111223 06:09:36-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70-59-112-42.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 06:33:30< atomicbomb> Oh God. 1.9.13 is > 300 MB in size :( 20111223 06:37:26-!- vultraz_ [~cd@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 06:43:46-!- vultraz_ [~cd@124.109.10.221] has quit [Quit: Life is weird, Love is Crazy, and the FlyingClub is awesome :D] 20111223 06:45:28-!- Gambit [~gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 06:50:09-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 07:05:44-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20111223 07:11:28-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 07:28:25-!- ancestral [~ancestral@70-59-112-42.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go sleeps kthxbai] 20111223 07:43:35-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 07:44:40-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@s9.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: Hosted by rdlBNC (Server 3 - East Coast USA)] 20111223 07:46:29-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] --- Log opened Fri Dec 23 08:13:12 2011 20111223 08:13:20-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 08:13:20-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.6 | Latest development version: 1.9.13 (1.10 beta 4) | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20111223 08:13:20-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Tue Dec 20 21:46:12 2011] 20111223 08:13:20[Users #wesnoth] 20111223 08:13:20[ [Relic] ] [ Faux-kun ] [ matthiaskrgr ] [ PolarPanda ] 20111223 08:13:20[ aanderse ] [ fstltna ] [ melinath ] [ Rhonda ] 20111223 08:13:20[ Aeth ] [ hagabaka ] [ mistzone ] [ rtfb ] 20111223 08:13:20[ Aethaeryn ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Mkaysi ] [ Samual ] 20111223 08:13:20[ Amu ] [ iwaim__ ] [ mthe ] [ sfb ] 20111223 08:13:20[ apoi ] [ janebot ] [ mthe878_ ] [ shadowm_laptop] 20111223 08:13:20[ astralja1a] [ Keba ] [ Muad_Dibber ] [ shadowmaster ] 20111223 08:13:20[ atomicbomb] [ knotwork ] [ namad7 ] [ Smar ] 20111223 08:13:20[ chpln ] [ koan ] [ noy ] [ vultraz ] 20111223 08:13:20[ ejls ] [ lobby ] [ nyuszika7h ] [ wesbot ] 20111223 08:13:20[ elias ] [ loonycyborg] [ Octalot ] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 20111223 08:13:20[ erl ] [ lupine_85 ] [ oldtopmanserver] 20111223 08:13:20[ Espreon ] [ MadMerlin ] [ Pavel ] 20111223 08:13:20[ fabi ] [ matthewt ] [ pbunbun ] 20111223 08:13:20-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 53 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 53 normal] 20111223 08:13:21-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org 20111223 08:13:25-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006 20111223 08:14:06-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 08:14:22-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 69 secs 20111223 08:39:57-!- happygrue [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 08:49:22-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111223 08:51:09-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [] 20111223 08:51:13-!- PolarPanda [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20111223 08:58:37-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20111223 09:00:53-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 20111223 09:09:18-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:10:45< Ivanovic> moin 20111223 09:11:10-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@S0106602ad06b8003.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:11:10-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@S0106602ad06b8003.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 09:11:10-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:18:54-!- happygrue_ [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:19:30-!- happygrue [~George@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 09:25:35-!- mistzone [932f6927@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.47.105.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20111223 09:26:59-!- csarmi_work [528d8c84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.141.140.132] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:37:00-!- mthe878 [~mthe@unaffiliated/mthe] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:40:00-!- mthe878_ [~mthe@94-193-44-47.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20111223 09:42:30-!- enchilado [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 09:55:55-!- horon [~horon@nttkyo316066.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 10:20:49-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 10:45:20-!- EyesIsMine|iPod [~EyesIsMin@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 10:46:42-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@125.161.21.150] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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Good idea? 20111223 15:48:49-!- Kullervo2 [~yaaic@net2-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 15:49:00< Kullervo2> Should javelineers get an advancement? 20111223 15:49:20< Kullervo2> As it stands they are pretty useless. 20111223 15:50:19-!- atomicbomb [~quassel@180.246.191.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 15:50:25< bumbadadabum_> they aren't 20111223 15:51:22< Kullervo2> Nobody gets then in campaigns and in MP a pikeman is often more useful. 20111223 15:51:41< bumbadadabum_> And what if you play aginst drakes? 20111223 15:52:01< bumbadadabum_> the blade resist and ranged attack can be really useful 20111223 15:54:27< Kullervo2> A specials advancement is quite dubious for a level 2 unit. 20111223 15:54:57-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 15:54:59< bumbadadabum_> what do you mean? 20111223 15:58:21< Kullervo2> Specialist. 20111223 15:59:07< Kullervo2> What other faction has a level 2 advancement good against only one faction and bad against others? 20111223 15:59:10< Crendgrim> bumbadadabum_: do you mean, like http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=33321 ? 20111223 16:00:10< Crendgrim> bumbadadabum_: and, for Lua, refer to http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=31022 20111223 16:00:23< Kullervo2> Also,.how 20111223 16:00:34< Kullervo2> Is gambciv doing? 20111223 16:00:46< Crendgrim> (okay, that thread doesn't get updated anymore, because it's now included in the standard changelog) 20111223 16:01:33< Crendgrim> Gambit: ^ (just in case "gambciv" doesn't hightlight you.) 20111223 16:01:46< Gambit> Hullo 20111223 16:02:08< Gambit> It's uh... 20111223 16:02:17< Kullervo2> The sleeping giant awakens! 20111223 16:02:28< Gambit> It's almost ready for what I'd call "1.0" 20111223 16:02:42< bumbadadabum_> Crendgrim: It would be nice to have 20111223 16:02:44< Crendgrim> wait... didn't you release 1.0 about a month ago? 20111223 16:02:45< Gambit> I need to find and squash any more bugs there might be and finish documentation. 20111223 16:02:51< Kullervo2> Do transport ships work? 20111223 16:02:54< Crendgrim> or, wanted to do so at least? 20111223 16:02:55< Gambit> Kullervo2: Yes 20111223 16:03:07< Kullervo2> That would be all I need. 20111223 16:03:09< Gambit> Crendgrim: I want to do it along with 1.10 20111223 16:03:16< Crendgrim> bumbadadabum_: well, you see that nobody really kept those threads up to date either 20111223 16:03:20< Crendgrim> Gambit: ah, okay. 20111223 16:03:41< bumbadadabum_> Crendgrim: If you make it part of the official changelog, maybe people will. 20111223 16:03:55< Gambit> Kullervo2: Mostly I need to finish this: http://gambciv.wikia.com/wiki/GambCiv_Wiki 20111223 16:04:01< Gambit> All the big gameplay features are in 20111223 16:04:07< Gambit> I just need some way to teach people how to play. 20111223 16:04:11< Kullervo2> Yep, I saw that. 20111223 16:04:31< Gambit> Will work on that again soon 20111223 16:04:32< bumbadadabum_> Youtube, as you already were doing. 20111223 16:04:38< Gambit> And that 20111223 16:04:50< Gambit> Though my house is almost never quiet enough to record :( 20111223 16:04:51< Crendgrim> bumbadadabum_: well, it is already included in the standard changelog, though it's hard to find it there... 20111223 16:04:53< Crendgrim> http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/wesnoth/trunk/changelog 20111223 16:05:00< Kullervo2> Though I am worried just hiding in the caves to farm mushrooms and spamming horsemen is the best strategy now. 20111223 16:05:18< Gambit> Hmmm. I haven't seen it played in a while. 20111223 16:05:37< Gambit> Caves run out at some point. 20111223 16:05:43< Gambit> Plus they need wood to farm mushrooms. 20111223 16:05:58< Kullervo2> Gambciv islands has lots of caves. 20111223 16:06:13< Kullervo2> And wood is a problem, yeah. 20111223 16:06:18< bumbadadabum_> Gambit: This'll sound weird, but try sitting under a blanket. 20111223 16:06:36< bumbadadabum_> while recording 20111223 16:06:41< Kullervo2> But just devote 2 turns to planting and chopping trees 20111223 16:06:49< Kullervo2> And you're good. 20111223 16:06:54< Gambit> Yeah lumbermills probably made that easier too 20111223 16:06:54< Gambit> Hmm 20111223 16:07:57< Gambit> I'll have to grab 1.9.13 next week and observe some games 20111223 16:08:56< Kullervo2> Also, make getting elves and unread easier. 20111223 16:09:36< Kullervo2> Drakes, dwarves and mermen are way cheaper to get. 20111223 16:10:19< Kullervo2> Oh, mermen navies! 20111223 16:14:59< Kullervo2> Also, there is the issue of silver mage assassination squads. 20111223 16:15:17< Kullervo2> Though I never saw those applied seriously. 20111223 16:16:29-!- aanderse [~aaron@CPE0026f3185740-CM0026f318573d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 16:16:30< Gambit> Wouldn't they have to capture a village in your kingdom first? 20111223 16:17:03< Kullervo2> They can bring a peasant along. 20111223 16:17:19< Kullervo2> And build the cheap recruitet. 20111223 16:17:28< Gambit> Ah those peasants illegally sneaking in an building anchor villages. 20111223 16:17:45< Gambit> You need to make a moat and fill it with crocodiles. 20111223 16:18:05< Gambit> [/political humor] 20111223 16:18:13< Kullervo2> No, a lava moat. 20111223 16:18:22< Kullervo2> Filled with fire dragons. 20111223 16:18:49-!- csarmi [528d8c84@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.141.140.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20111223 16:19:23< Gambit> Don't think I'll do anything about that. 20111223 16:19:27< Gambit> Seems like a valid strategy. 20111223 16:19:33< Gambit> Easily countered by horsemen. 20111223 16:19:43< Gambit> They clean up lonely peasants easily. 20111223 16:20:09< Kullervo2> And horsemen are very prevalent in gambciv, yeah. 20111223 16:21:01< Gambit> The horsemen have migrated to gambciv due to an abundance of their favorite prey. 20111223 16:21:18< Gambit> One hit kills ♥ 20111223 16:21:19< Kullervo2> Did anyone ever make heavy infantry with recruiters? 20111223 16:21:28< Gambit> I do heavies all the time 20111223 16:21:30< Kullervo2> Oh, one hit kills. 20111223 16:21:46< Gambit> People do spearmen to counter my horsemen spam 20111223 16:21:52< Gambit> So I do heavies to counter that 20111223 16:21:57< Gambit> plus they guard railroads well. 20111223 16:22:55< Kullervo2> Oh memory lapse. 20111223 16:23:11< Kullervo2> How do railroads work again? 20111223 16:23:35< Gambit> contiguous pieces count as 0 moves 20111223 16:23:49< Gambit> So you can build large stretches of them on large maps to quickly move troops around 20111223 16:24:04< Kullervo2> I see. 20111223 16:24:21< Kullervo2> Like freeciv railroads. 20111223 16:25:43< Kullervo2> Build road is off. 20111223 16:26:02< Kullervo2> You can use it to practically clear snow etc 20111223 16:26:11< Kullervo2> Without using ap. 20111223 16:26:43< Gambit> That's fine 20111223 16:26:51< Gambit> Because you can only use it to make a path 20111223 16:27:04< Gambit> if you want to clear snow for farming you must then waste time erasing the road 20111223 16:27:16< Kullervo2> Farming? 20111223 16:27:25< Kullervo2> Who farms by winter? 20111223 16:27:28< Gambit> Snow isn't meant to hamper building. It's meant to hamper most movement and farming. 20111223 16:27:31< Gambit> Kullervo2: Exactly :P 20111223 16:27:42< Kullervo2> Fishing boats ftw baby 20111223 16:27:55< Gambit> Oh I see what you meant. 20111223 16:28:04< Gambit> On smaller maps you can't always get those by winter. 20111223 16:28:14< Gambit> Too much pressure from opponents. 20111223 16:35:16< Gambit> Oh look. South Park spam forum posts. 20111223 16:35:20< Gambit> Awesome. 20111223 16:35:40< Gambit> shadowmaster: It knows you haven't watched it yet. It's coming for you. 20111223 16:38:18< bumbadadabum_> Gambit: play wesnoth online Gambciv? 20111223 16:38:35< bumbadadabum_> grammar english good is 20111223 16:40:06< bumbadadabum_> Would anyone like to playtest a campaign wip i made. 20111223 16:40:29-!- iwaim__ [~iwaim@gateway.alib.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 16:40:57-!- Filar [~Mussious@dgc136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 16:42:24< Crendgrim> bumbadadabum_: which kind of campaign? 20111223 16:42:32< bumbadadabum_> 4 scenarios 20111223 16:42:50< bumbadadabum_> not too difficult, unless you play on Northern Rebirth 20111223 16:43:10< Crendgrim> nah, which theme? 20111223 16:43:21< bumbadadabum_> a lot of different leaders 20111223 16:43:25< bumbadadabum_> 3 atm 20111223 16:44:11< Crendgrim> hum... is it already on the server? 20111223 16:44:45< Crendgrim> yay! I managed to parse a data file with Lua. This should make several things a lot easier for me. 20111223 16:44:54< bumbadadabum_> no 20111223 16:44:56-!- Kullervo2 [~yaaic@net2-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 16:45:36< bumbadadabum_> I want 5 scenarios tested and perfected 20111223 16:47:57< Crendgrim> which version? 20111223 16:54:10< bumbadadabum_> 1.9 20111223 16:54:49< Crendgrim> okay.. where can I get it from? 20111223 16:55:23< bumbadadabum_> madiafire 20111223 16:56:18< bumbadadabum_> uploading now 20111223 16:56:35< bumbadadabum_> I had a zip for a friend of mine with another era in it 20111223 16:56:43< bumbadadabum_> http://www.mediafire.com/?t003j9hbti82m70 20111223 17:02:50< Crendgrim> eh 20111223 17:02:56< Crendgrim> so I do need the extended default era? 20111223 17:06:30-!- iwaim__ [~iwaim@gateway.alib.jp] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 17:06:50< bumbadadabum_> nope 20111223 17:06:55< bumbadadabum_> it was already there 20111223 17:07:16-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: bumbadadabum_] 20111223 17:10:01< Crendgrim> okay 20111223 17:15:10-!- Filar [~Mussious@dgc136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111223 17:18:27< Crendgrim> hum. 20111223 17:18:30< Crendgrim> Wesnoth crashed. 20111223 17:18:35< Crendgrim> baad. 20111223 17:20:07-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 17:21:05< Crendgrim> bumbadadabum_: sorry, Wesnoth crashed. I'll try again later. 20111223 17:21:24< bumbadadabum_> Crendgrim: Never mind. 20111223 17:23:07< Crendgrim> okay, three segfaults a day is a bit too often, I guess.. 20111223 17:23:56 * Crendgrim updates to current SVN and tries again working on his campaign 20111223 17:25:40-!- csarmi [csarmi@178-164-130-99.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 17:32:52-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has left #wesnoth [] 20111223 17:33:14-!- rork [~quassel@s51477552.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 17:36:50-!- Kullervo2 [~yaaic@net2-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 17:37:22-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth --- Log opened Fri Dec 23 17:59:49 2011 20111223 18:00:01-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:00:01-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.8.6 | Latest development version: 1.9.13 (1.10 beta 4) | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org 20111223 18:00:01-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Tue Dec 20 21:46:12 2011] 20111223 18:00:01[Users #wesnoth] 20111223 18:00:01[ [Relic] ] [ Gambit ] [ matthiaskrgr ] [ rtfb ] 20111223 18:00:01[ Aeth ] [ Haldrik ] [ MeccaGod ] [ Samual ] 20111223 18:00:01[ Amu ] [ happygrue_ ] [ melinath ] [ sfb ] 20111223 18:00:01[ apoi ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Mkaysi ] [ shadowmaster ] 20111223 18:00:01[ astralja1a ] [ iwaim__ ] [ mthe878 ] [ Smar ] 20111223 18:00:01[ chpln ] [ janebot ] [ Muad_Dibber ] [ Soliton ] 20111223 18:00:01[ Crendgrim ] [ Keba ] [ namad7 ] [ Vorpal ] 20111223 18:00:01[ csarmi ] [ knotwork ] [ negusnyul ] [ vultraz ] 20111223 18:00:01[ ejls ] [ koan ] [ noy ] [ wesbot ] 20111223 18:00:01[ elias ] [ Kullervo2 ] [ nyuszika7h ] [ Xjs|moonshine] 20111223 18:00:01[ erl ] [ lobby ] [ oldtopmanserver] [ ymmuse ] 20111223 18:00:01[ Espreon ] [ loonycyborg] [ Pavel ] [ zookeeper ] 20111223 18:00:01[ EyesIsMine|iPod_] [ lupine_85 ] [ pbunbun ] 20111223 18:00:01[ Faux-kun ] [ MadMerlin ] [ Rhonda ] 20111223 18:00:01[ fstltna ] [ matthewt ] [ rork ] 20111223 18:00:01-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 57 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 57 normal] 20111223 18:00:03-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org 20111223 18:00:12-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006 20111223 18:00:15-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20111223 18:00:23-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:00:25-!- Faux-kun [HydraIRC@112.205.149.191] has quit [Quit: ERROR ERROR ERROR] 20111223 18:03:51-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.99] has quit [Quit: ymmuse] 20111223 18:06:42-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth was synced in 412 secs 20111223 18:09:24-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:18:29-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@BC244FA6.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 18:18:43-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@5400EFFE.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:34:21-!- Mkaysi [Mkaysi@TouchLay/Member/Mkaysi] has quit [Excess Flood] 20111223 18:40:43-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@184.71.170.250] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:40:43-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@184.71.170.250] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 18:40:43-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:43:45-!- Mkaysi [Mkaysi@TouchLay/Member/Mkaysi] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:49:40-!- EyesIsMine|iPod_ [~EyesIsMin@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Quit: iPod] 20111223 18:50:27-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:53:41-!- Filar [~Mussious@83.23.158.136] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 18:54:41-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:00:27-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.99] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:05:29-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20111223 19:05:32-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-14-215-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:05:56-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-4-145-34.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:22:54-!- Filar [~Mussious@83.23.158.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111223 19:31:43-!- NightWolf- [~NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:34:57-!- Tonepoet [447f6a07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.127.106.7] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:35:16-!- chameleon_effect [4ce34491@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.227.68.145] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:35:19< chameleon_effect> hello 20111223 19:35:26< Tonepoet> Hey. 20111223 19:36:35< Tonepoet> What'd you want with I.R.C. anyway Cham? 20111223 19:37:19< chameleon_effect> I was thinking of publishing that proof but if theres competition to gain credit such could hurt me 20111223 19:37:23< chameleon_effect> here's an alternative: 20111223 19:37:47< chameleon_effect> for many purposes, including enabling possibility of playing wesnoth with dice with no loss of RNG fidelity, can you prove: 20111223 19:38:17< chameleon_effect> one can generate a random integer between 1 and m, provided that you already have available a function which produces a randInt between 1 and n, for all values of m and n? 20111223 19:39:12-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:39:12-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Changing host] 20111223 19:39:12-!- hagabaka [~hagabaka@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:39:59< Tonepoet> Like I was saying before, I still think a 10 sided die is the most KiSS solution for the problem... 20111223 19:40:46< Tonepoet> They're not that expensive. Maybe .85 cents. from a toy store. 20111223 19:41:17< chameleon_effect> one can email answers to chameleon_effect@lycos.com or what 20111223 19:41:25-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:41:25-!- PolarPanda [~quassel@unaffiliated/peterporty] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 19:41:29< chameleon_effect> I don't care I solved it 20111223 19:44:50< csarmi> what is it about? 20111223 19:44:57< Tonepoet> It's not just about whether or not you care. A board game by nature is something you need multiple players for... 20111223 19:46:50< Tonepoet> We're talking about how Wesnoth might convert into a board game. Cham was just telling me about some way to use roll the dice using a mathematical formula to accurately emulate the RNG. 20111223 19:49:15< zookeeper> why would you need to accurately emulate the RNG? it's not like you can make the game play identically otherwise, anyway. 20111223 19:49:18< csarmi> roll a 10 sided dice? 20111223 19:49:26< csarmi> or a 20 sided? 20111223 19:49:29< csarmi> i dont get it 20111223 19:49:46< Tonepoet> That's pretty much what I was saying. He seems to have a method to make regular dice do it. 20111223 19:49:56< csarmi> i do too 20111223 19:51:28< Tonepoet> I don't see why you couldn't Zookeeper. The trickiest part about it might be the traits and figuring out a method for determining ZoC. Both are rather easily solved by having decks of honeycomb shaped cards for each unit in the faction. 20111223 19:52:09< Tonepoet> Well, I suppose resistances would also be a little tricky. 20111223 19:52:32< csarmi> for d10 roll a blue and a red dice, if red dice is 6 reroll, otherwise result is 5*(blue dice mod 2) + red dice 20111223 19:54:30< chameleon_effect> d10 doesn't allow for 0% returns from wesnoth rng 20111223 19:54:46< chameleon_effect> isn't the wesnoth rng mor analogous to a d11? 20111223 19:54:46< Tonepoet> There aren't units in Wesnoth with 0% defense. 20111223 19:54:53< chameleon_effect> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20111223 19:55:00< Tonepoet> So it doesn't matter. 20111223 19:55:01< chameleon_effect> those are 11 returns 20111223 19:55:12< chameleon_effect> it does if you want to have rng fidelity 20111223 19:55:26< chameleon_effect> but a rng result of 0% is possible 20111223 19:55:44< chameleon_effect> the rng can return 0, check it against defence, see that its less than the defence, then return a miss result 20111223 19:55:46< chameleon_effect> for example 20111223 19:56:01< csarmi> i dont get it 20111223 19:56:09< Tonepoet> It's never used in the default game. It'd only matter if you want a custom unit. 20111223 19:56:19< csarmi> for a 60% CTH you need to roll a 10 sided dice and get at least 5 20111223 19:56:19< chameleon_effect> heres how damage calculations work 20111223 19:56:25< chameleon_effect> a unit stands with x% defence 20111223 19:56:29< csarmi> why would you need 11 results 20111223 19:56:40< Tonepoet> Moreover if a unit had zero percent defense, you'd just count every strike. 20111223 19:56:43< chameleon_effect> the rng produces a random number between 0 and 100, for the percentiles 20111223 19:56:57< Tonepoet> So rolling the dice wouldn't even be necessary. 20111223 19:57:02< chameleon_effect> if the return is equal or greater to the defending unit defence rating, it scores a hit, and damage calcs apply 20111223 19:57:02< csarmi> 0 and 99 actually 20111223 19:57:04-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-4-145-34.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 20111223 19:57:12< chameleon_effect> if the return is lessar it scores a miss 20111223 19:57:20< csarmi> or 1 to 100 20111223 19:57:33< csarmi> you overcomplicate this 20111223 19:57:34< chameleon_effect> if its 0-100 a d10 doesn't work 20111223 19:57:46< chameleon_effect> you choose to fight me rather than discuss substance 20111223 19:57:48< chameleon_effect> have a good day 20111223 19:58:03< csarmi> no one fights you 20111223 19:58:39< csarmi> against 60% defense you need to roll a d10 and roll more than 6 its as simple as that 20111223 19:58:53< Tonepoet> ? 20111223 19:58:55< csarmi> whats this about 0 and 10? 20111223 19:59:30< Tonepoet> You have a method to emulate 100 values with a nominal pair of dice cham? Is that what you're saying? 20111223 19:59:36< csarmi> if you roll a d11 with values 0 to 10 you won't get 60% defense simulated 20111223 19:59:42< csarmi> unless you reroll for 0, say 20111223 19:59:55< csarmi> you only have to emulate 10 values 20111223 20:00:06< csarmi> defenses are multiples of 10 20111223 20:00:15< csarmi> if you really want to be picky, make it 20 20111223 20:00:38< Tonepoet> Depends on whether or not you're using default units. 20111223 20:00:52< csarmi> 2 d6 are enough to emulate d10 20111223 20:00:59< csarmi> though why would you want to i dont get it 20111223 20:01:15< chameleon_effect> one can say, what is the point of sharing if one makes a spectacle of learning curves? 20111223 20:01:16< csarmi> its also enough to emulate d20 but you would have to reroll too many times, better use 3 then 20111223 20:01:33< chameleon_effect> however, on the other hand, most of my experience on wesnoth boards consists of just getting arbitrarily shot down 20111223 20:01:43< chameleon_effect> so we have a bit of conversationalist profiling going on over here 20111223 20:01:48< csarmi> ? 20111223 20:02:08< csarmi> are you sure you understand probabilities? 20111223 20:02:21< csarmi> and how to simulate them? 20111223 20:02:48< csarmi> because i dont get this 0 to 100 thing 20111223 20:02:48< Tonepoet> Cham's a pretty smart fellow. 20111223 20:03:00-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: bumbadadabum_] 20111223 20:03:10< chameleon_effect> error, posturing or intimidation check 20111223 20:03:20< csarmi> [19:54] d10 doesn't allow for 0% returns from wesnoth rng 20111223 20:03:20< csarmi> [19:54] isn't the wesnoth rng mor analogous to a d11? 20111223 20:03:20< Tonepoet> He wants any outcome the RNG could produce, not just any possibility that's used. 20111223 20:03:26< chameleon_effect> brb smoking 20111223 20:03:32< chameleon_effect> ("cham is pretty smart" -heh) 20111223 20:03:49< csarmi> d10 does allow for 0% returns 20111223 20:04:16< csarmi> against 0% defense roll a d10 and if you roll more than 0, you hit 20111223 20:04:33< csarmi> against 100% defense roll a d10 and if you roll more than 10, you hit 20111223 20:04:50< csarmi> or you can use a d20 or a d100 20111223 20:05:04< Tonepoet> D100s don't exist though. 20111223 20:05:07< csarmi> with d20, for 0% defense try to roll more than 0 20111223 20:05:17< csarmi> for 100% defense try to roll more than 20 20111223 20:05:39< csarmi> d100 = d20*d6 and reroll if d6 = 6 20111223 20:05:42-!- bumbadadabum [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 20:05:53< csarmi> or use two d10 20111223 20:06:44-!- bumbadadabum [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has left #wesnoth [] 20111223 20:07:11< csarmi> with different colors say 20111223 20:09:11< csarmi> my solution to emulate d10 with 2d6 is also optimal in the sense that you can't get away with less rerolls 20111223 20:09:35< csarmi> as from the 36 outcomes you have to discard at least 6 20111223 20:12:00-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 20:12:48< zookeeper> Tonepoet, uh, because wesnoth translated directly to a boardgame would be way too complicated to be any fun. resistances, movement costs, terrain defenses, etc. 20111223 20:13:18< zookeeper> how are you gonna plot a cavalryman's movement over a wide variety of terrain? 20111223 20:13:18< Tonepoet> I've got no idea where to go from here because I'm not entirely sure what the motive is. 20111223 20:13:55< zookeeper> you can't see the movement range; you'd have to trace each possible path of movement in your head, which is practically impossible because you also have to memorize >10 movement costs. 20111223 20:16:08-!- Kullervo2 [~yaaic@net2-0-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20111223 20:16:45-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20111223 20:17:16< Tonepoet> It's difficult but I wouldn't call it impossible. I often times do that just trying to anticipate my opponent's moves. 20111223 20:17:23< Crendgrim> counting movement costs is possible, way harder is it to react to ambush. 20111223 20:18:19< Gambit> xD 20111223 20:18:26< Tonepoet> I'd have to conceede Ambush wouldn't be possible in a board game variant of Wesnoth. 20111223 20:18:29< Gambit> Most complicated boardgame evar 20111223 20:18:35< zookeeper> of course it's not impossible, but it wouldn't be any fun. 20111223 20:18:55< Gambit> Though, the map editor has been done before 20111223 20:18:55< csarmi> what you can do is take the important elements, principles 20111223 20:19:01< csarmi> and try to build a board game on it 20111223 20:19:09< csarmi> but you'll need to simplify a lot of things 20111223 20:19:20< Gambit> This was the coolest concept ever: http://www.ehow.com/video_4415003_build-land-basic-heroscape.html 20111223 20:19:32< zookeeper> yeah. if you want a board game, then you need to make a board game, not a computer game played with a board and dice :x 20111223 20:19:50< csarmi> well yes thats what I said 20111223 20:19:59< csarmi> zookeeper phrased it better :) 20111223 20:20:13< zookeeper> the doom boardgame was great, but unsurprisingly it's not exactly like the computer game :p 20111223 20:20:29< Tonepoet> It's easier to memorize if you remember mountains count for 3, other stuff counts for 2 and grass counts for one, with certain movetypes getting bonuses. 20111223 20:20:47< Tonepoet> As a general rule of thumb. 20111223 20:20:48< csarmi> it might be a ood idea to build on the wesnoth engine however 20111223 20:20:59< Tonepoet> That way you can plot the path of least resistance in your head. 20111223 20:21:01< csarmi> to test things 20111223 20:21:29< csarmi> but I have no idea which elements would you need to kape and which to discard 20111223 20:21:57< Gambit> I don't understand the drive to make Wesnoth physical. 20111223 20:22:05< Gambit> You don't have to spend an hour setting up. 20111223 20:22:08< Gambit> You don't have to clean up. 20111223 20:22:12< Gambit> You have infinite pieces. 20111223 20:22:15< csarmi> me neither but I'm trying to be constructive 20111223 20:22:16< Gambit> The game does all the math. 20111223 20:22:30< Gambit> And there's hundreds of opponents available. 20111223 20:23:22< Tonepoet> Board games are better for localized settings because you don't have to make all of the computers play nice. Same for playing with technologically inept people. 20111223 20:23:23< Gambit> And if you can only play for two hours, you don't have to take up an entire table until the next time all the players are available 20111223 20:23:28< zookeeper> Gambit, well sometimes there are several people present physically in the same space and they want to play a game. a physical game is a lot more convenient and fun in those cases. 20111223 20:23:51-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 20:23:58< Tonepoet> It's interesting hypothetically at least. 20111223 20:24:00< csarmi> and the players will quit on you 20111223 20:24:09< csarmi> because you aren't in the same room 20111223 20:24:19< csarmi> and you'll need to wait for them because they dont care 20111223 20:24:36< Tonepoet> Not sure a board game would fix people quitting on you.... 20111223 20:24:50 * Tonepoet doesn't ever remember finishing a game of monopoly 20111223 20:24:57< zookeeper> i've entertained all sorts of ideas of how wesnoth could be turned into a boardgame (not that i remember them now) 20111223 20:25:04< csarmi> well its harder to quit on you when you sat down just to play and you have to say it right into their faces 20111223 20:27:07< zookeeper> the basics of wesnoth are really simple and would translate easily to a boardgame 20111223 20:27:49< zookeeper> what you'd need is a map, unit figures/markers, village ownership markers, dice... and that's about it 20111223 20:27:53< Tonepoet> It's pretty much set up as a board game already. The computer just makes certain tasks less cumbersome as pointed out. 20111223 20:28:33< zookeeper> yes 20111223 20:29:14-!- Filar [~Mussious@dgc136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 20:29:16< zookeeper> which is why you have to greatly simplify the computer-assisted parts to make them feasible with a physical setuå 20111223 20:30:28< Tonepoet> The part I'm most concerned about is the resistances... 20111223 20:31:29< zookeeper> like, the things you'd definitely need to change: resistances, movement costs (and probably drop MP's across the board) and the amount of terrains 20111223 20:32:22< zookeeper> also, you'd need some way to keep track of hitpoints 20111223 20:32:41< zookeeper> and movement points 20111223 20:33:20< zookeeper> keeping track of hitpoints with pen and paper would be really annoying so you'd have to simplify the whole hp system somehow 20111223 20:33:24< Tonepoet> Keeping track of hitpoints is another reason I'm fond of cards to act as markers. 20111223 20:33:40-!- chameleon_effect [4ce34491@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.227.68.145] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20111223 20:34:21< Tonepoet> You could just calculate how much damage is dealt and subtract it from the old sum. 20111223 20:34:39< Tonepoet> And write in the new number of hitpoints. 20111223 20:34:57< Tonepoet> With pencil. 20111223 20:37:01< Tonepoet> Unfortunately damage counters like those in tabletop cardgames aren't very feasible because you have to keep track of which hitpoints go with which unit... 20111223 20:37:08< zookeeper> meh, i'd go for some kind of a simple wound system. for example, when a unit gets hit, place a wound marker underneath it. starting a turn in a village or next to a healer removes one wound marker. when wound markers equal hitpoints (max ~3-4 or so), unit dies. 20111223 20:38:04< zookeeper> or the figures could, for example, have slots which would hold the markers 20111223 20:41:48< Tonepoet> Assuming they snapped in to keep them from falling out, I'm not sure that would actually be much less effort by the point you have to affix and remove the markers. 20111223 20:42:48< Tonepoet> Also it's hard to think of the game dealing in damage fidelity that isn't at least in intervals of 10. 20111223 20:43:10< zookeeper> it's less effort because you need less stuff to play the game, because there's less room for error and also because everyone can see what's going on and that no one's cheating 20111223 20:44:01< Tonepoet> Would it be less stuff? You'd need a counter for every hitpoint. 20111223 20:44:30< zookeeper> err, yeah, i suppose it wouldn't. 20111223 20:45:01-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-14-215-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 20:47:08< zookeeper> anyway, i fail to see why damage fidelity would matter that much. as i said, there trying to make "wesnoth the boardgame - just like the computer game!" 20111223 20:47:15< zookeeper> urgh, premature enter 20111223 20:47:29< zookeeper> as i said, there's hardly much point in trying to make "wesnoth the boardgame - just like the computer game!" 20111223 20:48:14< zookeeper> how many boardgames based on computer games, movies or books do you know which are exactly like the thing they're based on? i can't think of any. 20111223 20:48:16< Tonepoet> Because of the balance between tanks and heavy hitters. 20111223 20:48:35-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.142] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 20:49:24< Tonepoet> With lower fidelity, footpads would deal insane amounts of damage. 20111223 20:49:36< Tonepoet> And horsemen would be somewhat moot. 20111223 20:49:43< zookeeper> even if they only have one attack? 20111223 20:50:24< Tonepoet> One attack can be 25% of a unit's health with only 4 counters. 20111223 20:51:02< zookeeper> sure. so you could kill a HI with 4 footpads in one turn if every one of them hits. 20111223 20:51:46< Tonepoet> Can 4 footpads kill an H.I. in a single turn in the computer game? 20111223 20:52:12< zookeeper> no. so what? 20111223 20:52:38-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 20:52:47< Tonepoet> Might be difficult to ascertain a fair balance. 20111223 20:53:14< zookeeper> well, that's what balancing is about :P 20111223 20:54:19< zookeeper> all that really matters is that relative to most other units, HI are tough and hit hard 20111223 20:55:55< zookeeper> and that footpads are quick and annoying 20111223 20:56:07< Tonepoet> The point is that tanks wouldn't be as tough unless you match the fidelity. A 1:1 ratio might be achievable with 10+ damage counters. The lowest damage units tend to deal about 3 damage per hit. 20111223 20:56:17< Tonepoet> While most units have around 30 H.P. 20111223 20:56:26< Tonepoet> 30-40 20111223 20:59:08< zookeeper> yeah, they wouldn't 20111223 20:59:42-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20111223 21:00:03< Tonepoet> So that's about half of the H.I.'s purpose lost. 20111223 21:00:46< Tonepoet> While the footpad is still at least as useful as it ever was, if not moreso. 20111223 21:02:31< zookeeper> well, i could keep repeating that naturally the board game wouldn't be exactly like the computer game, but... 20111223 21:07:30< Tonepoet> If not a perfect translation, a reasonable facsimile at the least. I'd think keeping track of 10-25 hitpoints wouldn't lose too much of the fidelity while remaining simpler to keep track of than 30-50 20111223 21:08:07< Tonepoet> Not sure though. 20111223 21:08:36< Tonepoet> Math isn't one of my strong suits... 20111223 21:08:47-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 21:10:47< Tonepoet> Resistance could also be fixed to add 1 or 2 points, rather than being a percentage based variable... 20111223 21:12:40< loonycyborg> Tonepoet: What's the point of a wesnoth boardgame if you're overhauling entire ruleset anyway? 20111223 21:14:10-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 21:14:24< Tonepoet> Just sayin' if changes have to be made, they should have minimal impact. That's not too inconsistent, is it loonycyborg? 20111223 21:15:52< Tonepoet> Also, I have no idea if the chatroom has any bots... 20111223 21:16:23< loonycyborg> Pretty sure that scaling all damages/resistances would require full rebalancing. 20111223 21:17:25< loonycyborg> In any case, wesnoth math wouldn't be very convenient for boardgame use in any case. 20111223 21:18:24< Tonepoet> Yeah, the math isn't too convenient. 20111223 21:21:14< Tonepoet> Scaling all damages might not have too big of an impact if it weren't for the resistances. The impact of scaled resistances might've been underestimated on a glance though.. 20111223 21:22:06< loonycyborg> Resistances would potentially require players to perform a division to resolve each attack. 20111223 21:22:23< loonycyborg> Even d&d doesn't require that. 20111223 21:22:27< Tonepoet> Point is values of under 2 hitpoints are never used, unless a resistance is factored in. 20111223 21:23:06< Tonepoet> *of 2 hitpoints or under 20111223 21:24:36< Tonepoet> And smaller numbers would be easier to work with. 20111223 21:27:58-!- negusnyul [~negusnyul@5400EFFE.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20111223 21:28:03-!- negusnyul_ [~negusnyul@dsl51B6E0EA.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 21:28:53-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-229-241.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 21:35:40-!- gm15301 [~quassel@193-168.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 21:51:47-!- NightWolf- [~NightWolf@95.157.8.173] has quit [Quit: [13:22:21] boah red nich immer so scheisse daher! Was dich ned angeht lass du einfach deinne Drecksgriffln davon, und versuchst uns immer blöd darzustellen !! Wenns keinen was angeht gehts keinen was an, und wenns auf der hp stehen würde] 20111223 21:59:55-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-229-241.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111223 22:03:05-!- bumbadadabum_ [~Bumbadada@d114024.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: bumbadadabum_] 20111223 22:10:20-!- Tonepoet [447f6a07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.127.106.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20111223 22:13:35-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-229-241.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 22:13:38-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@ppp59-167-222-56.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 22:36:39-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.142] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 22:40:59-!- ymmuse [~ymmuse@115.172.220.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20111223 22:49:22-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: crimson_penguin] 20111223 22:49:25-!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 22:49:26-!- Cyber_Rock [~lenovoi@unaffiliated/cyber-rock/x-7112426] has left #wesnoth [] 20111223 22:58:24-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@ppp59-167-222-56.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20111223 22:58:47-!- The [~The@79.97.154.72] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 22:58:52-!- The is now known as Guest15219 20111223 22:59:04-!- ShaneQful [~ShaneQful@79.97.154.72] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 22:59:33< ShaneQful> bye bye 20111223 22:59:37-!- ShaneQful [~ShaneQful@79.97.154.72] has quit [Client Quit] 20111223 23:08:54-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-113-8-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ...] 20111223 23:15:29-!- enchilado [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 23:15:33-!- enchilad1 [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 23:22:38-!- Guest15219 is now known as The 20111223 23:23:08-!- The is now known as Guest23842 20111223 23:23:16-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20111223 23:24:15-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.221] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 23:36:18-!- Octalot [~noct@host86-182-32-60.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 23:40:47-!- MeccaGod [~majs@host189-199.bornet.net] has quit [] 20111223 23:41:50-!- enchilado [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20111223 23:43:33-!- Filar [~Mussious@dgc136.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20111223 23:53:43-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-14-215-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth 20111223 23:55:15-!- Elvish_Pillager [~eli@71-10-229-241.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] --- Log closed Sat Dec 24 00:00:51 2011