--- Log opened Sat Jan 07 00:00:37 2012
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20120107 00:20:29-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1 planned for 7. January 2012, 18:00 GMT+1 | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 161 bugs, 331 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120107 00:36:40< anonymissimus> I would think that freeze and freeze can't be compared; either it's frozen of not xD
20120107 00:37:28< CIA-85> fendrin * r52530 /trunk/data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/scenarios/chapter3/10_Cliffs_of_Thoria.cfg: 
20120107 00:37:28< CIA-85> LoW 10:
20120107 00:37:28< CIA-85> Fixed recruit lists for Olurf and Cleodil.
20120107 00:37:28< CIA-85> There is no bug report for this.
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20120107 00:44:17< CIA-85> espreon * r52531 /trunk/po/ (18 files in 18 dirs): Updated the Spanish translation.
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20120107 03:17:17< CIA-85> jetryl * r52532 /trunk/images/buttons/ (3 files): Darker versions of the big buttons, to match our regular button colors.
20120107 03:35:33< CIA-85> shadowmaster * r52533 /trunk/ (950 files in 74 dirs): New year copyright update
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20120107 06:49:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1 planned for 7. January 2012, 18:00 GMT+1 | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 161 bugs, 332 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120107 09:28:35< Ivanovic> moin
20120107 09:38:02< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52534 /trunk/po/wesnoth/ (ko.po zh_CN.po zh_TW.po): 
20120107 09:38:02< CIA-85> change the font used for CJK translations (part3)
20120107 09:38:02< CIA-85> adjust the font order for non japanese CJK translations
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20120107 10:02:43< CIA-85> espreon * r52535 /trunk/po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Updated the Spanish translation.
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20120107 12:15:41< alink> hi
20120107 12:18:29< alink> Anonymissimus: can't we just remove the last few "colour"? it's deprecated since 1.9.2
20120107 12:19:42< alink> i don't mind keeping the warnings, but having the code continuing to output it in WML seems wrong
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20120107 13:11:16< CIA-85> alink * r52536 /trunk/src/map_label.cpp: 
20120107 13:11:16< CIA-85> Stop writing deprecated "colour" key when saving map label.
20120107 13:11:16< CIA-85> (it was in fact never needed since no WML can read that)
20120107 13:16:18< alink> I think I can also remove the writing of "colour" in [side] safely (meaning without creating more 1.8 addon compatibility problem)
20120107 13:18:14< alink> because the engine ignores the reading of "colour", so whatever old WML does with that, it's already without effect
20120107 13:19:42< alink> but I wait a second opinion
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20120107 13:52:16< CIA-85> alink * r52538 /trunk/changelog: update changelog
20120107 13:52:21< CIA-85> alink * r52537 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20120107 13:52:21< CIA-85> Rename local ToD lighting WML key in preference to reset the setting
20120107 13:52:21< CIA-85> to the new default. This also better reflects the option's name.
20120107 13:54:35< alink> ^well it was already reset to the new default, but not in one rare case, which was annoying to explain to users in releases notes, so now it's simply reset for everybody
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20120107 16:18:12< CIA-85> alink * r52539 /trunk/ (changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua src/multiplayer_connect.cpp): 
20120107 16:18:12< CIA-85> Stop writing deprecated extra "colour" key in [side]
20120107 16:18:12< CIA-85> Engine never reads such keys anymore.
20120107 16:19:37< alink> ^Anonymissimus
20120107 16:26:16< alink> I suppose that a not-updated 1.8 UMC MP addon could use colour number to build some custom ~TC(), but the error will be small and clear enough: error in ~TC and magenta units
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20120107 16:54:51< anonymissimus> alink: in map_label its fine I think
20120107 16:55:09< anonymissimus> since AFAIK an addon cannot use that function
20120107 16:55:20< Ivanovic> AI0867, Espreon: this page needs an update! http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesCamp#How_to_contribute_to_this_project
20120107 16:55:29< anonymissimus> but i object removing it in store_side
20120107 16:56:24< anonymissimus> the tag is specifically called by a wml author to store a side in a wml var and we don't know what the wml author does with the variable afterwards
20120107 16:56:47< anonymissimus> so thats breaking backwards compatibility in freeze
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20120107 16:58:55< Ivanovic> AI0867, alink, boucman, crimson_penguin, elias, Espreon, fabi_, gabba, loonycyborg, Rhonda, shadowmaster, Soliton, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.10-rc1?
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20120107 16:59:02< Ivanovic> the same for Crab_, too
20120107 17:00:34< gabba> Ivanovic: I have three really bad bugs on my hands, so not really - on the other hand they'll take me at least two weeks to fix, so... go ahead I guess.
20120107 17:01:28< gabba> Bugs in question are:
20120107 17:01:29< gabba> https://gna.org/bugs/?19221
20120107 17:01:31< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52540 /trunk/po/ (9 files in 8 dirs): updated French and Slovak translation
20120107 17:01:36< gabba> https://gna.org/bugs/?19142
20120107 17:02:26< zookeeper> i have nothing, unless i've missed something
20120107 17:03:04< Crab_> Ivanovic: more-or-less ready unless someone will point to a bad enough bug, for me to fix
20120107 17:03:58< gabba> Well, I guess that's more two critical bugs, and a flurry of smaller ones mostly interface annoyances
20120107 17:04:15< Ivanovic> gabba: are there places where other people can possibly help you?
20120107 17:04:26< Ivanovic> eg boucman already had a look at some whiteboard stuff, trying to fix things
20120107 17:04:56< gabba> Ivanovic: yes, boucman helped me in an area I didn't know too well, that's great
20120107 17:05:04< gabba> still have to check what he did though
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20120107 17:05:41< gabba> Ivanovic: I'd need help about the unit map, guess I'll post to the mailing list since everytime I ask about it here my request is met with silence
20120107 17:05:51< Ivanovic> gabba: since needing two weeks is already a rather longish time considering that i still hope to tag 1.10.0 in roughly 2 weeks
20120107 17:06:04< Ivanovic> gabba: hmm, have you asked Crab_?
20120107 17:06:24< Ivanovic> if there is someone i'd assume able to tell you about virtually everything it might be Crab_
20120107 17:06:27< gabba> he wasn't around much, so no
20120107 17:06:41< Ivanovic> gabba: he is now!
20120107 17:06:45< alink> Ivanovic: I just discuss my last commit with anonymissimus and I will be ready
20120107 17:06:59< gabba> yeah, and I'm leaving in like 1 min :P
20120107 17:06:59< Ivanovic> alink: sure, take your time
20120107 17:07:05< Ivanovic> gabba: shame on you!
20120107 17:07:11< Ivanovic> ;)
20120107 17:07:13< gabba> indeed, indeed
20120107 17:07:31< Ivanovic> but you could ask him to meet at some time that works for both of you
20120107 17:07:35< gabba> Well I feel bad about the two weeks, but I'm trying to be realistic here
20120107 17:07:52< Ivanovic> hey, it is great to know in advance that you will likely need this time
20120107 17:08:09< Ivanovic> no need to feel bad, helps me with planning and preparing translators for maybe having a little extra time
20120107 17:08:15< alink> anonymissimus: you mean store colour and work with it for other things unrelated to color stuff ?
20120107 17:08:36< boucman> gabba: hey
20120107 17:08:45< gabba> Crab_: I'll get back to you, I may have a few questions to ask you on monday if you're around
20120107 17:08:51< Ivanovic> significantly better than hearing one hour before the planned time for tagging that there is still a significant problem and tagging has to be delayed for "unknown time"
20120107 17:08:51< gabba> hey boucman :)
20120107 17:09:01< Crab_> gabba: ok
20120107 17:09:08< gabba> boucman: thanks for working on the hidden units :)
20120107 17:09:14< alink> also i was not sure what was the rule about freeze regarding deprecated stuff
20120107 17:09:20< gabba> boucman: have to leave now unfortunately
20120107 17:09:22< gabba> bye all
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20120107 17:09:28< Ivanovic> alink: breaking compatibility is a no go
20120107 17:09:30< boucman> too bad
20120107 17:09:34< Ivanovic> even if something is already marked deprecated
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20120107 17:10:19< Ivanovic> alink: i'd recommend to start some "stuff to do after tagging 1.10" as well as "stuff to do after trunk is branched off again" list
20120107 17:10:47< alink> Ivanovic: ok so if someone used something deprecated since 1.9.2, it's too late to clean this now ?
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20120107 17:11:32< Ivanovic> alink: if someone has WML that worked nicely in the beta1 release and there is no *important* reason (aka critical bugfix) breaking this, it should still work the same way in 1.10.0
20120107 17:11:49< Ivanovic> and even if wml throws a "deprecation" warning, it is still working
20120107 17:12:11< anonymissimus> alink: for instance, yes
20120107 17:12:40< alink> mmh ok, then indeed it was not critical just messy to always have 2 keys colour and color in all side WML
20120107 17:12:51< anonymissimus> alink: also, imagine that the vast majority of wml does not even know about wmllint and skips every version since 1.8.6 straight to 1.10.0
20120107 17:13:03< anonymissimus> wml authors
20120107 17:13:49< anonymissimus> at places where it's only reread by the engine there's no problem but if potentially used by a wml author it's problematic
20120107 17:14:42< anonymissimus> (I already suggested to keep important deprecations until the start of the next dev cycle due to the above)
20120107 17:14:55< anonymissimus> or all deprecations
20120107 17:15:00< alink> yes but I thought that if a WML author still rely on colour, he will have other problems
20120107 17:15:13< Ivanovic> personally i think it perfectly fine to still have the colour deprecation warning in stuff created by content authors
20120107 17:15:51< alink> Ivanovic: I don't mind warning, it was to clean the written data 
20120107 17:16:07< anonymissimus> the usual wml author updates his stuff only once there's some breakage noticable
20120107 17:16:10< alink> but ok I revert it, it's not important enough
20120107 17:18:05< anonymissimus> i started using dev versions due to this; its way easier to keep wml code up-to-date by getting deprecation warnings
20120107 17:19:58< anonymissimus> afk
20120107 17:24:02< CIA-85> alink * r52541 /trunk/ (changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua src/multiplayer_connect.cpp): Revert r52539 "Stop writing deprecated extra "colour" key in [side]"
20120107 17:26:09< alink> I still think the probability to cause problem and impact on unupdated addon was very low and worth it, but indeed the freeze force us to keep supporting deprecated stuff
20120107 17:29:39< alink> We need a way to don't forget disabling deprecated stuff few versions later. Maybe adding something like "if (version < 1.9.4) do backward-compatibility code"
20120107 17:30:00< alink> so it will automatically stop working after few versions
20120107 17:31:53< Ivanovic> alink: yes, something like this would be nice
20120107 17:34:49< alink> should be easy, just need a robust enough version comparator and we probably already have one somewhere (for savegame stuff)
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20120107 17:37:33< anonymissimus> wouldn't that code need to be removed at some spot anyway ?
20120107 17:38:29< alink> yes but once auto disabled we can remove it when we want
20120107 17:40:15< alink> in fact if we use a macro, it can be auto-removed from the build directly and have no perf impact other that some dead lines in source
20120107 17:42:36< alink> Ah I remember introducing this http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/deprecated.html but then forget about it :(
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20120107 17:50:55< fabi_> Crab_: hi
20120107 17:51:43< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Duh. You stress me dude :)
20120107 17:51:53< Rhonda> Ivanovic: May I send you my translation files still_
20120107 17:51:54< Rhonda> ?
20120107 17:51:58< Ivanovic> yes
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20120107 17:54:18< alink> even more aggressive idea: make the deprecated code trigger a static assert after few versions. So, when Ivanovic bump version to "1.11.x+svn", build will remind us to clean the old stuff
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20120107 18:02:14< alink> Ivanovic: btw, since I will be afk soon, now I am ready
20120107 18:02:21< Ivanovic> alink: okay
20120107 18:02:58< Ivanovic> alink: regarding the deprecation stuff a reminder to the dev ml might be great so that all devs are on the same level
20120107 18:04:10< alink> Ivanovic: you mean for 1.11?
20120107 18:04:15< Ivanovic> yeah
20120107 18:04:56< alink> ok, indeed, once a good method is found, we should all use it
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20120107 18:06:18< alink> mordante will probably have good ideas about this
20120107 18:06:31< Ivanovic> mordante was not around for a while
20120107 18:06:47< alink> wesbot: seen mordante
20120107 18:06:47< wesbot> alink: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 20d 6h ago.  20d 6h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20120107 18:06:59< alink> oh so long :(
20120107 18:07:05< Ivanovic> jepp
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20120107 18:57:23< Crab_> fabi_: hi
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20120107 19:05:53< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: "yes", although some playtesting last night led me to stumble upon a situation in which the AI repeatedly freezes the game during turns
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20120107 19:06:29< shadowmaster> not sure if it's already reported. This is a UMC scenario (although using standard AI settings), so I don't have much to do myself...
20120107 19:06:36< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: hmm, can you investigate this a little and i'll release tomorrow instead?
20120107 19:06:50< Ivanovic> this way the japanese translation might be tested using yet another new font, too
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20120107 19:07:25< shadowmaster> I don't understand a single piece of the AI code...
20120107 19:07:28< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: maybe Crab_ can help with the critical AI?
20120107 19:07:40< shadowmaster> oh hi Crab_, didn't notice you were here
20120107 19:07:50< Ivanovic> (yeah, our equivalent to a swiss multi tool is actually around atm!
20120107 19:10:39< shadowmaster> it seems there's this: https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=19214
20120107 19:11:06< shadowmaster> also https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=18962
20120107 19:13:17< anonymissimus> there have been complaints about it in the forum a few times as well
20120107 19:13:33< anonymissimus> Crab_: it's probably a critical enough bug
20120107 19:14:04< Crab_> hi, shadowmaster
20120107 19:14:10< anonymissimus> although present since quite some time, so why delay the relase
20120107 19:14:16< shadowmaster> I can still reproduce #18962 on r52533 with the provided save and instrictuions.
20120107 19:14:27< shadowmaster> Crab_: may I assign it to you?
20120107 19:14:48< Crab_> yes
20120107 19:14:55< anonymissimus> I could 18962 reproduce as well wheh I tried
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20120107 19:16:33< Crab_> I'll take a look at them today in a few hours
20120107 19:16:43< shadowmaster> #19214 might be actually another (or even the same) aspect of #18962
20120107 19:17:14< Crab_> but one of them is missing a save (19214)
20120107 19:17:26< Crab_> I still would be able to investigate
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20120107 19:26:36< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52542 /trunk/po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated Estonian and German translation
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20120107 19:39:32< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: apropos wanting that strings displayed to the user should always be translatable - there's the downloading/uploading addons interface completely untranslated
20120107 19:40:04< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: UGH!
20120107 19:40:23< anonymissimus> ASC displays the english version of the description to me although I have it translated
20120107 19:40:28< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: you mean the progress dialog?
20120107 19:40:35< shadowmaster> ah, that.
20120107 19:40:43< shadowmaster> that's an ancient limitation and cannot be solved.
20120107 19:41:17< anonymissimus> well the addon type is translated
20120107 19:41:19< shadowmaster> that is, there's no way for wesnoth to find a translation for an add-on description unless campaignd provides those itself
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20120107 19:41:38< shadowmaster> the add-on type translation comes from a mainline textdomain
20120107 19:41:46< shadowmaster> the individual add-ons descriptions do not
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20120107 21:11:53< Crab___> shadowmaster: I've looked at bugs  19214 and 18962. unfortunately, it seems that there are no outright bugs involved.
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20120107 21:12:05< Crab___> There's a combination of factors which slows down AI combat phase if it can attack with the leader, but is wary of doing so
20120107 21:13:18< Crab___> it just takes all the possible leader's attacks (they are usually good since leader is a good unit), and then discards them (as leader_aggression is -4.0 by default, so it's not taking risks).
20120107 21:13:37< Crab___> repeat each time an attack is evaluated, add the fact that leader usually stands in safe place (so, there are additional calculations related to going to a worse terrain)
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20120107 21:21:26< Crab___> still, attack evaluation still takes way too much time if leader is involved, so there's something messy there.
20120107 21:22:30< shadowmaster> it isn't possible to update the screen while evaluating attacks, though?
20120107 21:26:27< Crab___> it tries to do so, but on low-end machines it can be worse or there can be other issues involved
20120107 21:26:38< Crab___> still, I've fixed this particular case.
20120107 21:27:00< Crab___> by removing a few lines that were not needed - it tried to check, every time, if leader can get to keep, but that was not necessary in combat anyway.
20120107 21:27:26< Crab___> now I get more-or-less the same speed on both testcases I have both with and without the leader
20120107 21:31:39< CIA-85> crab * r52543 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog src/ai/default/attack.cpp): Fixed bug #18962 and bug #19214: AI leaders are no longer slow to select attacks.
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20120107 21:36:40< Crab___> so, after r52543, if there'll be other cases where it's slow, let me know. 
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20120107 21:41:30< shadowmaster> okay, will try
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--- Log closed Sun Jan 08 00:00:10 2012