--- Log opened Sun Jan 08 00:00:10 2012
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20120108 00:16:08< Gambit> anonymissimus: Around?
20120108 00:16:23< Gambit> I found the following syntax on the wiki:
20120108 00:16:23< Gambit> wesnoth.match_location(x, y, { terrain = "Ww", { "filter_adjacent_location", terrain = "Ds,*^Bw*" } })
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20120108 00:16:36< Gambit> Trying to use that for wesnoth.set_location()
20120108 00:16:50< Gambit> And with "not" instead of "filter_adjacent_location". Doesn't appear to work.
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20120108 00:17:24< Gambit> s/set_location()/get_locations()/
20120108 00:18:06< Gambit> Is this right? http://pastebin.com/nHXnf7Hj
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20120108 00:22:24< Alarantalara> Gambit: Is there any reason you can't just use a single query string: !,<what you don't want>,!,<what you do want>
20120108 00:22:46< Gambit> ?
20120108 00:23:13< Alarantalara> skip the  not part entirely
20120108 00:23:49< Gambit> I don't understand the syntax you're mentioning
20120108 00:24:30< Alarantalara> Most terrain search strings let you use ! to reverse the matching
20120108 00:24:55< Alarantalara> so !,*^Gvs,!,G*^*,Rb^*,Re^*
20120108 00:25:04< Alarantalara> should match what you want without a separate clause
20120108 00:25:22< Alarantalara> or maybe not
20120108 00:26:06< Gambit> Oh wow that's a neat trick
20120108 00:26:08< Gambit> Thanks
20120108 00:26:09< Alarantalara> It would have to be: !,G*^Gvs,Rb^Gvs,Re^Gvs,!,G*^*,Rb^*,Re^*
20120108 00:26:58< Alarantalara> the problem is that your actual match condition intersects, so it won't work here
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20120108 00:27:24< Gambit> Alarantalara: It's actually... working great
20120108 00:28:20< Alarantalara> You're right, my mind is overtinking it
20120108 00:28:28< Alarantalara> *overthinking
20120108 00:28:35< Alarantalara> I should eat my dinner
20120108 00:29:20< Gambit> Thanks for the help.
20120108 00:29:36< Gambit> Slow random snow over the course of several turns looks much better than suddenly coating the entire map.
20120108 00:30:30< Alarantalara> Won't that make the clear snow action less effective?
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20120108 00:42:01< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen alink
20120108 00:42:01< wesbot> shadowmaster: The person with the nick alink last spoke 6h 35m ago.  4h 49m ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20120108 00:42:06< shadowmaster> aw
20120108 00:49:09< Gambit> Alarantalara: Indeed
20120108 00:49:17< Gambit> But also less needed
20120108 00:49:22< Gambit> You have time to prepare.
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20120108 00:49:38< Gambit> And if winter is made slightly more annoying, I consider that a good thing.
20120108 00:49:48< Gambit> It's supposed to be a burden.
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20120108 00:52:54< Gambit> Someone (me) should make a [foreach] tag.
20120108 00:52:58< Gambit> Lua loops are so much faster.
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20120108 00:56:34< Alarantalara> If you can avoid reevaluating the WML inside the tag each time through the loop, that would indeed be awesome
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20120108 00:57:30< Alarantalara> otherwise it probably wouldn't make much difference
20120108 00:57:42< Alarantalara> though it might be easier to work with
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20120108 00:59:56< un214> sounds like that vector proposal I had that shadowmaster shot down
20120108 01:10:33< CIA-85> espreon * r52544 /trunk/po/wesnoth-manpages/es.po: Updated the Spanish translation.
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20120108 01:50:29< Soliton> AI0867: Undefined variable: nostats in /sources/wesnoth/website/gettext.wesnoth.org/index.php on line 161,208,303
20120108 02:01:49< anonymissimus> Gambit: { "not", { terrain = "*^Gvs" } }
20120108 02:02:33< anonymissimus> Gambit: also, I dunno whether G*^* is right in a SLF btu thats not a lua question
20120108 02:02:56< anonymissimus> and you need to put that code in synchronize_choice to avoid OOS
20120108 02:03:54< anonymissimus> ah seems ala already took care...never mind
20120108 02:04:07< shadowmaster> G*^* is correct, and for some reason G* doesn't match Gg^Ft, for instance.
20120108 02:04:36< Gambit> wesnoth.synchronize_choice( code ) ?
20120108 02:04:51< anonymissimus> yes, because of that math.random
20120108 02:04:52< Gambit> shadowmaster: The reason is that there isn't (AFAIK) a way to match no overlay
20120108 02:04:54< Gambit> So that is the way.
20120108 02:05:19< Gambit> Thanks anonymissimus
20120108 02:05:25< shadowmaster> Oh, it's good to know you are mordante/Sapient. :)
20120108 02:06:15< shadowmaster> (whichever devised the SLF mechanism. I know mordante devised the current terrain system, so I'm inclined towards him implementing the string match rules too.)
20120108 02:06:18< Gambit> I'm telling you the reason you shouldn't "fix" it :)
20120108 02:06:38< shadowmaster> And I don't really find that kind of arguments relevant.
20120108 02:07:08< shadowmaster> They don't really discourage "fixing" it. More on the contrary.
20120108 02:07:33< Gambit> Note that "^Ft" will match any base with Ft on top.
20120108 02:07:40< Gambit> So I think the current system is very intuitive.
20120108 02:07:42< anonymissimus> wesnoth.synchronize_choice(function() return { result = math.random() } end).result instead of math.random()
20120108 02:08:02< shadowmaster> So will *^Ft, doesn't it? That was never part of the question.
20120108 02:08:20< shadowmaster> I don't find those border cases intuitive at all.
20120108 02:08:24< Gambit> shadowmaster: I like that you must have ^ to care about overlays.
20120108 02:08:38< Gambit> And if you don't have ^ you don't care about overlays.
20120108 02:09:05< shadowmaster> That is, they are completely unlike what normal glob patterns do
20120108 02:09:38< Gambit> anonymissimus: oh my
20120108 02:10:32< anonymissimus> "high chance of accidentally and undesirably changing the zoom level": indeed
20120108 02:11:22< anonymissimus> thsi happens to me all the time that I press + or - accidentally, mostly even several times at once, causing wesnoth to be unusable for a minute or more
20120108 02:12:01< anonymissimus> in a quick MP game I'm dead
20120108 02:12:32< shadowmaster> it's never been that bad for me, not even on complex maps
20120108 02:13:24< anonymissimus> I don't mean a minute per zoom step
20120108 02:13:47< Gambit> anonymissimus: Can I wrap the entire thing in an anonymous function in wesnoth.synchronize()?
20120108 02:13:55< anonymissimus> one minute for all zoom steps accidentally made, including the undoing to normal zoom
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20120108 02:14:17< Gambit> That'd look much less like crap.
20120108 02:14:43< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: 0
20120108 02:15:03< anonymissimus> Gambit: not sure what you mean; you need to know that the function put as an argument to synchronize_choice is executed only on that client currently active
20120108 02:15:23< anonymissimus> so changes to the gamestate shouldnt be made
20120108 02:15:33< Gambit> Ah
20120108 02:15:39< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: That is the default "Default zoom" hotkey
20120108 02:15:46< anonymissimus> so not set_terrain
20120108 02:15:59< anonymissimus> ah
20120108 02:16:04< shadowmaster> I mean, you are a developer,  so I expect you to know about it already.
20120108 02:16:12< anonymissimus> no
20120108 02:16:24< Gambit> That's totally unfair shadowmaster
20120108 02:16:26< anonymissimus> I generally dotn use hotkeys
20120108 02:16:37< shadowmaster> Gambit: developers don't fall under the same rules as users. ;)
20120108 02:16:53< anonymissimus> you'll be surprised what I expect you to know next time then
20120108 02:17:06< shadowmaster> Considering there's even a titlescreen tip preaching the use of the Hotkey settings menu!
20120108 02:17:39< Espreon> anonymissimus: Oh no, don't expect anything of us!
20120108 02:18:12< shadowmaster> Of course, as I said, I don't approve of UI features with incredibly low discoverability.
20120108 02:18:25< shadowmaster> Since we don't have a UI expert, though, there's not much interest in finding a solutipon
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20120108 06:18:54< Espreon> http://imagebin.org/192428 ... Ummm... wut?
20120108 06:18:57< Espreon> shadowmaster: ^
20120108 06:20:14< Espreon> shadowmaster: Oh, it seems that AtS uses a non-existent image for fake shroud's symbol image. Well, my checkout, at least.
20120108 06:21:58< Espreon> shadowmaster: Yeah, the problem went away after I updated my checkout.
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20120108 08:14:21< shadowmaster> 02:18:54 <Espreon> http://imagebin.org/192428 ... Ummm... wut?
20120108 08:14:32< shadowmaster> Espreon: and what am I supposed to be looking at?
20120108 08:17:41< ancestral> shadowmaster: Quick question for you
20120108 08:19:24< ancestral> shadowmaster: Are heights and widths of buttons coded in gui/ui files or does it just load a png and start drawing it at an X,Y coordinate in the png's top left corner?
20120108 08:20:25< shadowmaster> I don't know where the button geometries come from.
20120108 08:20:30< ancestral> Olkay
20120108 08:21:05< shadowmaster> At least GUI2 buttons don't seem to have a maximum size, so long enough labels cause the button animation frames to be stretched horizontally.
20120108 08:28:52< ancestral> Why are tips hardwired?
20120108 08:29:21< ancestral>  /data/hardwired/tips.cfg
20120108 08:31:11< Espreon> shadowmaster: Don't worry about it.
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20120108 09:50:07< Ivanovic> moin
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20120108 10:37:00< Rhonda> topic is outdated, Ivanovic
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20120108 10:55:50-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1 planned for 8. January 2012, 18:00 GMT+1 | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 161 bugs, 332 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120108 10:55:52< Ivanovic> Rhonda: fixed
20120108 10:56:28< vultraz> soo...8 hours to go
20120108 11:04:02< vultraz> does rc1 mean 'release cycle 1', therefor meaning it's technically considered 1.10? 
20120108 11:15:13< Ivanovic> it is meant "release candidate"
20120108 11:15:23< Ivanovic> aka *really freaking close* to final
20120108 11:15:43< boucman> it means that if no major bug is found it will be renamed as 1.10
20120108 11:16:00< Rhonda> vultraz: hopefully. Though, IIRC with 1.4 we had a regression in the release candidates, so it is not fixed that this will 100% stay compatible with the upcoming 1.10 release.
20120108 11:16:15< Rhonda> But that only happens when bad stuff happens
20120108 11:16:47< Ivanovic> boucman: not renamed since some changes are known to still happen (translation updates) but only a really tiny amount of changes is expected
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20120108 11:17:29 * Rhonda bites boucman for wanting to release with an incomplete German translation
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20120108 12:49:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1 planned for 8. January 2012, 18:00 GMT+1 | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 159 bugs, 332 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120108 13:50:32< shadowmaster> Some random "not really going to do it myself" 1.12 ideas for add-on organization: https://pastebin.com/bSpH2t2r
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20120108 14:33:10< vultraz> shadowmaster: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=517208#p517208 might want to keep that in mind for 1.11 (see that +post below)
20120108 14:35:55< shadowmaster> vultraz: What do I have to do with that?
20120108 14:36:01< CIA-85> shadowmaster * r52545 /trunk/ (changelog src/playsingle_controller.cpp): 
20120108 14:36:02< CIA-85> Make sure to not call the turn bell or autosaves code after [endlevel] has been issued
20120108 14:36:02< CIA-85> I believe this only occurred in one border case involving an earlier
20120108 14:36:02< CIA-85> [end_turn] action (in the add-on After the Storm, E1S6 part 1, to be
20120108 14:36:02< CIA-85> specific), but since the turn dialog already checks whether
20120108 14:36:02< CIA-85> level_result_ has changed before displaying, it seems okay to do the
20120108 14:36:03< CIA-85> same for this code as well. This doesn't affect autosave deletion.
20120108 14:36:37< vultraz> shadowmaster: I just dunno who to pass it on to
20120108 14:36:56< shadowmaster> vultraz: GUI2 is maintained by mordante, but the Lua bindings are currently orphaned after silene left.
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20120108 14:37:35< shadowmaster> You are pretty much out of luck in that regard unless you can get someone else to code a patch, or try to do so yourself.
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20120108 14:37:59< vultraz> hummmmm
20120108 14:38:04< vultraz> that's an idea
20120108 14:39:50< shadowmaster> wesbot: seen AI0867 
20120108 14:39:50< wesbot> shadowmaster: Queried user last spoke 10d 13h ago.  AI0867 is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20120108 14:42:59< shadowmaster> Espreon: regarding https://gna.org/bugs/?18921 , how many Ulfserkers approximately were required to reproduce?
20120108 14:43:34< shadowmaster> what was your acceleration factor, too? I don't think I can keep doing this at 1x, and nothing special happened at 16x.
20120108 14:45:48< shadowmaster> boucman: Apparently, units flash in red twice when they are hit.
20120108 14:45:54< shadowmaster> Aren't they supposed to flash only once?
20120108 14:46:12< boucman> let me check
20120108 14:46:23< shadowmaster> It's more obvious that they do it twice if you set the acceleration factor to 0.25x
20120108 14:47:49< boucman> they are coded to do it twice, so it's what was intended...
20120108 14:48:11< boucman> should they flash only once is this not an issue ?
20120108 14:48:31< shadowmaster> I thought they used to flash once back in the day.
20120108 14:48:51< boucman> maybe they did, and it was changed...
20120108 14:49:47< shadowmaster> yeah, of course. The double flashing does bother me a bit since it looks like a glitch, but it's a matter of personal taste anyway.
20120108 14:50:52< shadowmaster> Ideally I'd have a slightly longer and smoother flash (i.e. progressive blending) if I were coding my own game :)
20120108 14:52:10< shadowmaster> Espreon: I just tried with enough Ulfserkers to make the target advance and still no segmentation fault.
20120108 14:52:59< shadowmaster> And killed the test target.
20120108 14:53:35< shadowmaster> Granted, I am using an -O3 build, but that shouldn't really make a difference (if anything, it should make this kind of bugs more frequent)
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20120108 15:29:39< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: re http://pastebin.com/bSpH2t2r; some functionality checking for the version of BfW used should go there as well; and ideally addons shouldnt display if their required versions is gerater than the user's version ;)
20120108 15:30:14< shadowmaster> that would be nice, except for the "shouldn't display" part
20120108 15:31:06< shadowmaster> they should be displayed, but not allowed to be loaded or installed (i.e. grayed out in the hypothetical Grand Unified List)
20120108 15:31:17< shadowmaster> (unless using debug mode, probably)
20120108 15:31:27< anonymissimus> vultraz: exasperation is probably the one knowing most about these, it's well possible you have hit some missing feature
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20120108 15:32:24< vultraz> anonymissimus: about the lua? he did say it was
20120108 15:32:41< vultraz> but shadowmaster says there's no one to code a fix
20120108 15:32:50< anonymissimus> it is probably the spot at which I launch the debugger to find out more about the problem since the error messages don't tell enough; so if you go ahead and finish setting up your built system you could create a patch which could be apllied in 1.11
20120108 15:33:03< shadowmaster> vultraz: I may have missed some recent developer.
20120108 15:33:33< shadowmaster> assuming he is one and not just a patcher
20120108 15:33:50< shadowmaster> he is a UMC pioneer in the forums, not a developer
20120108 15:34:09< shadowmaster> Regarding https://gna.org/bugs/?18877 , is it necessary for the engine to preserve the original underlying_id (or to serialize it at *all*) when handling units via WML or Lua?
20120108 15:34:24< shadowmaster> anonymissimus: ^
20120108 15:34:50< shadowmaster> vultraz: yeah, he's not a developer yet, so he can't really maintain anything.
20120108 15:35:01< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: yes thats an excellent question
20120108 15:35:58< anonymissimus> i'm not aware of such cases
20120108 15:37:07< anonymissimus> the engine could assign an appropriate underlying_id each time the unit constructor is called
20120108 15:38:07< anonymissimus> of course there's probably some reason why it's written into the dump currently which I don't know about :)
20120108 15:38:45< shadowmaster> I never really understood why u_id was introduced other than to temporarily break a certain campaign *cough*.
20120108 15:39:16< shadowmaster> In a related note, vultraz recently pointed out that a die event in my campaign renders the primary unit visible again during a dialogue sequence, even though none of the actions in the event handler interact with it in any way. I thought this was fixed in 1.5.x and 1.7.x so the primary unit was automatically hidden, probably about the same time the "last breath" event was introduced.
20120108 15:40:28< shadowmaster> s/and/or/
20120108 15:42:17< shadowmaster> Of course, a simple git log lookup doesn't reveal any evidence for that, so I may be wrong.
20120108 15:44:09< anonymissimus> shadowmaster: exasperation has working build systems and I think 2 patches in or so
20120108 15:44:54< shadowmaster> a working build... environment isn't a requirement for becoming a developer :)
20120108 15:45:37< shadowmaster> Okay, I have visual confirmation that the primary_unit is hidden (either explicitly or as a side-effect of the animation code) in 1.8.
20120108 15:47:12< anonymissimus> actually it's three, one I applied the other 2 mordante
20120108 15:47:52< shadowmaster> interesting, I can't reproduce on HEAD either.
20120108 15:48:20< shadowmaster> there must be some specific action that's causing the primary_unit to become visible again
20120108 15:48:27< anonymissimus> so if he was a google SoC he would have write access by now but since we pay sort of less attention to wml wizards, don't we...? 
20120108 15:49:01< shadowmaster> Summer of Code students get access automatically if they are accepted, or they may get it earlier through the usual process
20120108 15:49:25< shadowmaster> if Exasperation wants to get access he needs to file an application at gna.org so Ivanovic can accept it
20120108 15:50:18< shadowmaster> except for the aforementioned case, it's never automatic
20120108 15:51:12< anonymissimus> i didn't mean any automatism
20120108 15:51:34< shadowmaster> you seemed to be implying there was discrimination going on :)
20120108 15:54:59< shadowmaster> what the hell is going on with this event?
20120108 15:56:56< shadowmaster> I guess I'll just have to patch it on the WML side since I can't isolate the action causing this
20120108 15:57:36< anonymissimus> re http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=35835&p=517927#p517927, well I can understand his frustration
20120108 16:06:47< shadowmaster> gah
20120108 16:07:08< shadowmaster> I don't know why I bother replying to issues with no originator email or gna.org account
20120108 16:07:40< shadowmaster> if it were up to me I'd have he tracker automatically reject them
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20120108 17:22:39< Ivanovic> boucman, elias, Espreon, fendrin, loonycyborg, noy, Rhonda, shadowmaster, Soliton, timotei, zookeeper, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.9.15 aka 1.10 rc1?
20120108 17:24:33 * shadowmaster *thumbs up*
20120108 17:26:19< shadowmaster> I wonder if any of the older devs knows why we need a save_index in the first place, since Wesnoth appears to fare well enough without one 
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20120108 17:26:56< fendrin> Ivanovic: I am fine with the release but I don't get why you call it rc1. A release candidate is meant to become the stable if there are no major bugs found. But we already know about blocking bugs that are still not fixed.
20120108 17:27:29< Ivanovic> fendrin: because the procedure will now be significantly more strict regarding commits
20120108 17:27:37< shadowmaster> s/well enough/better/
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20120108 17:28:27< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: Yes.
20120108 17:28:40< shadowmaster> What I don't get is why the RCs get to have a hard string freeze but not the maintenance stable releases.
20120108 17:28:55< shadowmaster> It seems rather backwards.
20120108 17:28:57< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: they have a string freeze before a new release comes out
20120108 17:29:20< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: meaning: only slight string changes allowed and there is at least a week between pot-update and tagging
20120108 17:29:24< Soliton> shadowmaster: i'd guess it's just meant as a cache.
20120108 17:30:01< fendrin> Ivanovic: Maybe but why do you use a term that has nothing to do with strictness of commits but implies to the user that he is testing a nearly bug free version in which the developers have the confident that it could be the next stable. That is just a lie and fooling those why know the vocabulary of software development. 
20120108 17:30:26< Ivanovic> fendrin: yes, i intend it to be fooling if this finally makes some people test it
20120108 17:30:39< Ivanovic> and the amount of known issues that will have to be fixed before "real" 1.10 are rather small
20120108 17:31:00< fendrin> Then please but my name out of the credits section. I don't want people fooled in my name.
20120108 17:31:36< shadowmaster> I don't think the "RC" moniker really fools anyone since the real version number continues to be a development version number.
20120108 17:31:41< Ivanovic> honestly, what is the difference beween a stable release and a dev snapshot?
20120108 17:31:43< fendrin> s/but/put
20120108 17:31:53< Ivanovic> rc just states that we are *really* close to final, which is the case
20120108 17:32:24< Ivanovic> noone ever speaks of "we copy this as final"
20120108 17:32:25< shadowmaster> The better question is why we pretend 1.X.0 is final when it clearly isn't. ;)
20120108 17:32:32< Ivanovic> eg see the procedure with the kernel
20120108 17:32:43< fendrin> shadowmaster: Yeah, very much agreed.
20120108 17:33:22< Soliton> where do we pretend that?
20120108 17:33:23< fendrin> shadowmaster: We have delayed the release that long now and 1.8 wasn't the best Wesnoth release ever. We should take enough time and do it right this round.
20120108 17:34:18< shadowmaster> fendrin: Meh.  At this point I think everyone's bored and would rather work on amazing stability-breaking changes in trunk.
20120108 17:34:19< Ivanovic> fendrin: our main problem is that 1.8.x in fact is *too good*
20120108 17:34:39< shadowmaster> 1.10 has had the longest development cycle since I joined.
20120108 17:34:40< Ivanovic> which leaves not much incentive for users to test a development series
20120108 17:34:47< Ivanovic> leading to us not having much feedback
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20120108 17:38:28< fendrin> Ivanovic: We do not need more feedback. We already know about enough blocking bugs alone with the feedback we already have.
20120108 17:39:08< shadowmaster> Are there any blockers now, though? I believe there was only a blocker and a security bug since 1.9.13.
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20120108 17:39:31< shadowmaster> Both of which I had to fix myself for some weird reason.
20120108 17:39:39< Ivanovic> fendrin: there are things i want to wait for, but those are basically the whiteboard issues gabba promised to work on over the next two weeks
20120108 17:39:52< Ivanovic> and yes, *that's it* from what everyone told me
20120108 17:40:07< Ivanovic> two bugs and that's it
20120108 17:41:04< fendrin> There is the scalling problem for example, or did it get fixed? I mean that the portraits get already scaled at our default resolution of 1024x768.
20120108 17:41:25< fendrin> The default theme is still broken for both, the game and the editor at 1024x768.
20120108 17:41:33< shadowmaster> fendrin: most portraits are at least 350px tall
20120108 17:41:55< Ivanovic> "broken" means what exactly?
20120108 17:42:02< shadowmaster> if the framebuffer is 768 px tall, then the portraits will invariably need to be scaled to make room for the gamemap
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20120108 17:44:10< fendrin> Ivanovic: There is not enough room to display the terrain information at 1024.
20120108 17:44:54< Ivanovic> fendrin: because we can/want to display too much these days with the different terrain combinations and such being allowed plus some "extra name" differing from the type
20120108 17:46:09< fendrin> Ivanovic: Yes, that is the cause. But no fix for it. There is no tooltip available so the information is just not accessible for the player. And terrain is very important for Wesnoth. That is clearly a blocker in my opinion.
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20120108 17:46:31< shadowmaster> is it any different from 1.8?
20120108 17:46:37< Ivanovic> fendrin: and there is no fix for it visible in any near future
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20120108 17:46:49< Ivanovic> though from what i remember this is no regression compared to 1.8
20120108 17:47:13< Ivanovic> i'd really love to see a "complete" gui overhaul
20120108 17:47:17< shadowmaster> okay, admittedly Espreon's changes made the time display take up around 10 additional pixels
20120108 17:47:56< shadowmaster> it's not hard to find terrains which cannot be displayed in their entirety at 1024x768 on 1.8.6's test scenario, though.
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20120108 17:48:46< fendrin> Is it really an argument that a problem did already exist in the previous version?
20120108 17:48:59< Ivanovic> fendrin: it is an argument for not marking it a blocker
20120108 17:49:08< shadowmaster> when you don't have the manpower to fix it, yes, it is
20120108 17:49:17< Ivanovic> since a problem which has been there for at least two years with noone fixing it means it can't be this bad
20120108 17:50:22< shadowmaster> also note that since as far as I can remember (0.9.5), the terrain label is hidden on 800x600, so compromises like this are ancient
20120108 17:51:01< fendrin> shadowmaster: Right, the 800x600 is broken as well. There needs to be at least a tooltip to get the information displayed somehow.
20120108 17:52:37< shadowmaster> the problem with tooltips is that you need to hover their parent element to display them. This approach doesn't work with the current paradigm of interacting with the gamemap for obvious reasons.
20120108 17:53:28< shadowmaster> Either the gamemap would have to be adapted to allow tooltips for individual hexes, or the way terrain locations (as opposed to units) are selected would have to change
20120108 17:54:06< shadowmaster> both options aren't valid at this point and would need to be investigated in detail in 1.11.x given a solid proposal or a working patch
20120108 17:54:08< Ivanovic> the solution might be something like:
20120108 17:54:24< Ivanovic> when a unit is selected and you hover over a terrain the units defense value is displayed
20120108 17:54:41< Ivanovic> besides icons for special features that would apply on a hex could be displayed
20120108 17:54:52< Ivanovic> but nothing that can be done *anytime* soon
20120108 17:55:51< Ivanovic> (displayed directly in the hex, so that you don't have to manually make the connection between terrain type and resulting rules)
20120108 17:56:01< fendrin> I would really like to see the default resolution from which on the game is displayed with all gui elements being lifted above 1024x768.
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20120108 17:57:49< fendrin> 1280x1024 doesn't seem too much regarding that we have 2012. One can argue that poor people can't afford a modern display but displays that are limited to this resolution are nearing the end of their lifespan anyway.
20120108 17:58:34< shadowmaster> 1280x1024 seems really non-standard nowadays. I only have laptops using 1280x800.
20120108 17:59:07< shadowmaster> And from what I've seen desktop monitors come in similar aspect ratios (apparently from 1360x768 onwards)
20120108 17:59:18< fendrin> shadowmaster: Would be fine for me. I am all for switching to widescreen support.
20120108 18:00:54< fendrin> And that is another issue: The main screen. It is scaled horribly on non 4:3 resolutions. Either we make it nonscalling and have some kind of border or we have a second map of wesnoth for widescreen resolutions. 
20120108 18:01:49< fendrin> I think that is an important issue. Most people will discover Wesnoth on a widescreen and they instantly get the impression of an unpolished product.
20120108 18:01:55< shadowmaster> That's hardly the only issue with it at this point. :(
20120108 18:02:09< shadowmaster> Unfortunately, I couldn't convince a certain someone that there were issues at all.
20120108 18:04:50< fendrin> Don't get me wrong. I dislike those 16:9 displays. It is just horrible for computer workers to have the visible screen more and more turned into cinema format. But this is going to happen if I want it or not.
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20120108 18:14:49< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52546 /trunk/ (106 files in 39 dirs): 
20120108 18:14:50< CIA-85> pot-update (no new/changed strings, reference update only, preparing for 1.9.14)
20120108 18:14:50< CIA-85> regenerated doc files (had to fix manpages for the Serbian (transliterations) manually!)
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20120108 18:17:20< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52547 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h): bump version to 1.9.14
20120108 18:23:10< vultraz> niiice :D
20120108 18:24:34-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1, using r52547 | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 159 bugs, 332 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
--- Log opened Sun Jan 08 18:41:10 2012
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20120108 18:41:21-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: releasing 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1, using r52547 | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 159 bugs, 332 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120108 18:41:21-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Sun Jan  8 18:24:34 2012]
20120108 18:41:21[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20120108 18:41:21[ Aeth           ] [ fstltna     ] [ noy            ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ Aethaeryn      ] [ Gallaecio   ] [ Octalot        ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ AI0867         ] [ Gambit      ] [ oldtopmanserver] 
20120108 18:41:21[ Amu            ] [ happygrue   ] [ pbunbun        ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ ancestral      ] [ Ingmar      ] [ Pete-Flux      ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ anonymissimus  ] [ Ivanovic    ] [ Rhonda         ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ apoi_          ] [ iwaim       ] [ Samual         ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ arnem          ] [ janebot     ] [ shadowm_laptop ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ boucman        ] [ Johannes13  ] [ shadowmaster   ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ chpln          ] [ knotwork    ] [ shikadibot     ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ CIA-85         ] [ koan        ] [ Smar           ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ Crab___        ] [ lobby       ] [ stikonas       ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ crimson_penguin] [ loonybot    ] [ Tigge          ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ ejls           ] [ loonycyborg ] [ Upthorn        ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ elias          ] [ LordNasty   ] [ vultraz        ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ Elvish_Pillager] [ matthiaskrgr] [ wesbot         ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ erl            ] [ MeccaGod    ] [ yann           ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ Espreon        ] [ melinath    ] [ zookeeper      ] 
20120108 18:41:21[ fendrin        ] [ mjs-de      ] [ {V}            ] 
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20120108 18:41:39-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20120108 19:25:17< CIA-85> ivanovic * r52548 /tags/1.9.14/: tagged 1.9.14, using r52547
20120108 19:26:01< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: around what time tomorrow do you plan to publish the announcement?
20120108 19:26:22< Ivanovic> shadowmaster: if the windows and mac binary is ready by then i'd say in 24h
20120108 19:26:26< Ivanovic> would this suite you?
20120108 19:26:47< shadowmaster> well, my announcement doesn't have to be published exactly at the same time
20120108 19:27:03< shadowmaster> but yeah, that would work too
20120108 19:28:48< Ivanovic> i'd prefer to have it at similar times
20120108 19:28:59< Ivanovic> how exactly do you plan your announcement? as global forum post?
20120108 19:29:04< Ivanovic> or also as entry on the frontpage?
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20120108 19:30:12< shadowmaster> I was hoping to add a short entry to the front page pointing to it after publishing it in the forums as a global announcement, and maybe Soliton could also add a link to the 1.8  and 1.10 servers MoTDs as well then
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20120108 19:30:51< Ivanovic> i'd say it would make sense to first announce 1.9.14 and have this extra done right afterwards
20120108 19:31:16< Ivanovic> as explicit news entry on the front page as well as a comment in the 1.9.14 release thread (possibly first post) pointing to the global announcement
20120108 19:32:10< shadowmaster> gee, one would think that a global announcement with a prefix in caps along with a server MoTD and a site front page news entry would be enough...
20120108 19:32:26< Ivanovic> people tend to be blind...
20120108 19:32:38< shadowmaster> should I rent a blimp too?
20120108 19:32:51< Ivanovic> better make it a full page flash banner
20120108 19:32:53< Ivanovic> ;)
20120108 19:32:56< vultraz> XD
20120108 19:33:12< vultraz> call the news networks 
20120108 19:33:51< shadowmaster> for that matter, the Frogatto banner in the front page needs to be either shrunk or removed before 1.10 replaces 1.8 and 1.9.x in the overview panel, in my opinion
20120108 19:33:51< vultraz> get live coverage 
20120108 19:34:02< shadowmaster> as it is, it is stealing a lot of room and "visibility"
20120108 19:34:11< Ivanovic> i'd say we should remove it right now already
20120108 19:34:15< shadowmaster> (there is an official smaller version around too)
20120108 19:35:22< vultraz> I'm guessing the official announcement won't be put up 'till 'official' 1.10?
20120108 19:35:35< Ivanovic> vultraz: jepp
20120108 19:35:45< Ivanovic> which is about a week after tagging 1.10.0
20120108 19:35:59< vultraz> why a week
20120108 19:36:34< Ivanovic> so that packagers can test the packages, translators translate the "real and 100% final" announcement and we have time to react in case a packager finds a "wow, this breaks everything" bug
20120108 19:36:58< shadowmaster> like 1.6a, was it?
20120108 19:37:04< Ivanovic> jepp
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20120108 19:40:23< vultraz> why, what happened
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20120108 19:43:37< vultraz> hum....
20120108 19:43:56 * vultraz wonders whether the devs have a good collection of new screenshots
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20120108 19:53:51< Ivanovic> bope
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20120108 20:21:40< vultraz> Ivanovic: you don't?
20120108 20:21:49< Ivanovic> vultraz: exactly
20120108 20:22:10< vultraz> then what are you gonna show
20120108 20:22:17< Ivanovic> not sure yet at all
20120108 20:22:24< Ivanovic> that is: if noone else does it by then i'
20120108 20:22:33< Ivanovic> ll try to make screenshots between tagging and announcing
20120108 20:23:08< vultraz> any screenshot criteria?
20120108 20:23:31< shadowmaster> I'd say: Whiteboard, terrains, Gambit's amazingly obvious enhancement, portraits, Espreon's amazingly non-obvious enhancement, mordante's amazingly obvious changes to the titlescreen
20120108 20:24:03< shadowmaster> Perhaps that annoying Uninstall Add-ons dialog too.
20120108 20:24:12< Ivanovic> what do you think of doing one or two screenshots in a "translated" version?
20120108 20:24:23< Ivanovic> eg in chinese to show the asian chars as available, too
20120108 20:24:31< vultraz> hummmm
20120108 20:24:40< Ivanovic> (would possibly be nice for the frontpage with the map with asian chars)
20120108 20:25:12< vultraz> I dunno...would be a bit weird as everything's in english
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20120108 20:25:53< Espreon> shadowmaster: I don't remember. When I found that bug, I think my builds were compiled with gcc 4.5.x.
20120108 20:26:16< Espreon> I could reproduce it many times.
20120108 20:26:28< Espreon> Lemme see if I can reproduce it right now.
20120108 20:27:05< Ivanovic> vultraz: huh, what would be in english if there was a screenshot with the chinese (simplified) translation selected?
20120108 20:27:25< Ivanovic> from what i have seen it is possible to select stuff in a way so that basically everything features asian chars
20120108 20:27:57< Rhonda> Ivanovic: I got a report that 1.9.13 segfaults in the loading screen, and reproduced it myself …
20120108 20:28:11< shadowmaster> Espreon: ugh. I am rather unnerved by the mere mention of gcc right now.
20120108 20:28:11< Ivanovic> Rhonda: huh?!?
20120108 20:28:20< vultraz> O_O
20120108 20:28:22< shadowmaster> Since that editor bug seemed to affect only gcc 4.6.x users
20120108 20:28:24< Ivanovic> Rhonda: what do you have to do to get a segfault?
20120108 20:28:35< Ivanovic> and do you have a lovely backtrace?
20120108 20:28:37< Rhonda> http://bugs.debian.org/654969
20120108 20:28:43< Rhonda> Simply start it :)
20120108 20:28:52< Ivanovic> Rhonda: when i start wesnoth here it works
20120108 20:28:54< Ivanovic> ;)
20120108 20:29:10< Rhonda> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
20120108 20:29:13< Rhonda> 0xf77e3502 in std::_Rb_tree_increment(std::_Rb_tree_node_base*) ()
20120108 20:29:15< Rhonda>    from /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6
20120108 20:29:32< Ivanovic> which gcc do you use for compiling?
20120108 20:29:44< Rhonda> http://paste.debian.net/151447/
20120108 20:30:11< Ivanovic> and please retry with the brand new 1.9.14
20120108 20:30:23< Ivanovic> ancestral, loonycyborg: 1.9.14 is ready!
20120108 20:30:37-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.9.14 aka 1.10-rc1, announcing "soon" | HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 159 bugs, 332 feature requests, 14 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120108 20:30:40 * vultraz is waiting for the mac package
20120108 20:30:52 * ancestral is too, heh
20120108 20:30:59< Rhonda> Ivanovic: I guess 4.6.2 it should had been
20120108 20:31:29< Ivanovic> ah, okay, the mac packager was alarantalara, not you, right
20120108 20:31:53< ancestral> I've built it before, it's been a while though ;-)
20120108 20:31:55< Ivanovic> Rhonda: ohoh, okay, that might be the problem, seems like eg shadowmaster has observed one or two problems with a 4.6.x compiler, too
20120108 20:32:00< ancestral> (not as a packager of course)
20120108 20:32:21< vultraz> ancestral: how IS wesnoth packaged
20120108 20:32:53< Espreon> If only traditional were translated enough...
20120108 20:32:54< ancestral> vultraz: The project is built in Xcode
20120108 20:33:27< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: With the editor, anyway.
20120108 20:33:28< ancestral> vultraz: It's not super hard, if you're mostly familiar with Xcode and IDEs in general
20120108 20:34:12< shadowmaster> I'm certain the titlescreen works for me and I use gcc 4.6.2
20120108 20:35:05< Ivanovic> Rhonda: please check if you can start a 1.9.14 you built
20120108 20:35:16< Rhonda> Sure.
20120108 20:35:18< shadowmaster> okay, it's a little unfortunate that the reporter didn't have a build with complete debug symbols
20120108 20:35:24< Rhonda> Newest version on remote site is 1.9.13, local version is 1.9.13
20120108 20:35:53< shadowmaster> although I guess line numbers are invariably useless for optimized code
20120108 20:36:07< vultraz> Ivanovic: about the translated screenshots...I'm not sure if you meant a screenshot of wesnoth translated stuck with the english screenshots, or a translated screenshot on translated wesnoth.org
20120108 20:36:31< Ivanovic> vultraz: i mean in the list of screenshots
20120108 20:36:43< vultraz> ahh
20120108 20:36:46< Ivanovic> vultraz: having one or two screenshots of the game run in eg chinese or something like this
20120108 20:36:47< shadowmaster>  the problem is that the code in the backtrace hasn't changed between 1.9.12 and 1.9.13
20120108 20:37:02< Ivanovic> Rhonda: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/wesnoth-1.9.14/
20120108 20:37:08< shadowmaster> "git log tags/1.9.12..tags/1.9.13 src/config_cache.?pp" gives absolutely nothing
20120108 20:38:04< Ivanovic> i am sure that my build of 1.9.13 did start without any problem on the day of tagging
20120108 20:38:21< Ivanovic> so the problem is likely somewhere with the compiler and libs used leading to it behave badly
20120108 20:38:40< Ivanovic> (yeah, possibly due to a coding error on our side which was not triggered before with an older compiler which optimizes less)
20120108 20:38:56< vultraz> the packaged 1.9.13 opens fine
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20120108 20:39:17< shadowmaster> Ivanovic: I use rather aggressive settings with gcc though.
20120108 20:39:18< vultraz> for me
20120108 20:39:26< shadowmaster> extra_flags_config = '-pipe -mtune=native -march=native'
20120108 20:39:26< shadowmaster> extra_flags_release = '-O3'
20120108 20:39:38< Ivanovic> hmm, okay
20120108 20:40:12< shadowmaster> optimization levels didn't affect the editor crash, anyway (otherwise I'd not have obtained those invaluable backtraces)
20120108 20:40:35< boucman> Ivanovic: i'm good for release
20120108 20:40:46< Ivanovic> boucman: would be too late now anyways
20120108 20:40:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20120108 20:40:59< boucman> hehe
20120108 20:41:57< vultraz> XD
20120108 20:42:49< vultraz> so.....just wondering, but 1.10 rc2 isn't expected to be needed?
20120108 20:44:14< shadowmaster> not at this moment, but remember IIRWIIR
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20120108 20:44:45< Ivanovic> vultraz: i *hope* it is nore required
20120108 20:45:41< vultraz> :)
20120108 20:45:44< vultraz> same
20120108 20:46:02< Ivanovic> s/nore/not
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20120108 20:55:57< Espreon> shadowmaster: Yeah, I think gcc 4.5.x might be to blame since gcc files are mentioned in the mere error part.
20120108 20:56:14< Espreon> If gcc is not to be blamed, then I don't see gcc files mentioned in the mere error parts.
20120108 20:56:48< Espreon> But I dunno.
20120108 20:56:51< Espreon> I'm not a wizard.
20120108 20:56:51< shadowm_laptop> Espreon: that libc, libstdc++ or gcc implementation details are in the backtrace does not always imply a problem with gcc
20120108 20:57:21< Espreon> I guess.
20120108 20:57:43< Espreon> Hmmmm...
20120108 20:58:33< Espreon> I guess I'll make a Sabayon 6 VM, compile Wesnoth in it, and try to reproduce there.
20120108 20:59:04< Espreon> And I'll need metakraid for this.
20120108 20:59:41< Espreon> ... since I can't get VirtualBox working on this thing again, and I'm not going to bother with trying to get it to work here anymore.
20120108 20:59:55< Espreon> I might as well also prepare that Debian disc.
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20120108 21:03:52< Espreon> ... and I cannot use metakraid at the moment, so blargh.
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20120108 21:17:20< timotei> Espreon: use QEMU?
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20120108 21:50:59< Espreon> timotei: No.
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20120108 22:07:24< anonymissimus> closed the fixed/won't fix/works for me reports!
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20120108 22:09:07< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: 1.9.14 windows release is uploaded.
20120108 22:09:49< fendrin> Ivanovic: Jetrel commited a new end turn button. Do you think it is now appropriate thus I can close the bug?
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20120108 23:11:01< shadowm_laptop> fendrin: wasn't mordante the one who complained?
20120108 23:11:19< shadowm_laptop> (besides me. And no, I don't like thew new one better since it still has the ridiculously thick border.)
20120108 23:12:19< ancestral> I personally don't like the new one because it looks like it's already pressed when I haven't clicked on it yet
20120108 23:12:44< shadowm_laptop> ancestral: the one in 1.9.14, not the one in 1.9.13
20120108 23:12:53< ancestral> Aaah, then I am unfamiliar
20120108 23:13:17< shadowm_laptop> Jetrel toned down the highlight so it shouldn't look perma-focused
20120108 23:25:09< Ivanovic> fendrin: committed? where?
20120108 23:26:03< Ivanovic> ah, right
20120108 23:26:13< Ivanovic> yeah, looks like a fix to me, so mark it fixed and close the report
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 09 00:00:03 2012