--- Log opened Wed Jan 18 00:00:43 2012
20120118 00:02:17< Espreon> :)
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20120118 00:16:30< Ivanovic> Crab___: do you know any magical fix for this one? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?19083
20120118 00:16:40< Ivanovic> and have you seen the mails from gabba and know how to help him?
20120118 00:16:46< Crab___> I'll take a look.
20120118 00:17:38< Crab___> about Gabba, I've just committed a bugfix for his 2nd question, and for the 1st point, we just need to talk.
20120118 00:17:49< Ivanovic> hey, that's cool!
20120118 00:25:29< Crab___> on 19083, since we know the cause of the bug and can reproduce it, it should be easy to fix it, but I need to look into the source to see if there's a possibility of fixing it via a quick hack somewhere.
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20120118 00:35:38< anonymissimus> being able to reproduce and knowing the cause is the easiest part of a fix :|
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20120118 00:37:59< Crab___> anonymissimus: yes, there's a harder part - persuade yourself that it's worth to spend time to compile a debug build to deal with this bug :)
20120118 00:38:06< fendrin> hi Crab___
20120118 00:38:12< fendrin> Crab___: do you have a minute?
20120118 00:38:20< Crab___> yes
20120118 00:38:32< fendrin> Crab___: phone, I am back soon.
20120118 00:38:53< Ivanovic> Crab___: you saw my message that transportation to/from fosdem should be no problem?
20120118 00:39:04< Crab___> Ivanovic: yes
20120118 00:39:48< Ivanovic> i don't know for sure yet regarding the night from sunday to monday, but it is likely that you can stay over here (got to ask my parents first to be 100% sure that it is fine)
20120118 00:41:01< Crab___> ok, thanks. if necessary, I can always book a hotel, it's easy even if done 1 day in advance.
20120118 00:46:30< fendrin> Crab___: https://gna.org/bugs/?19066 What is your opinion? Is Beetlenaut experiencing expected behavior or is it a bug?
20120118 00:47:06< Crab___> I need to see the save to be sure, but, as far as I remember is it an expected behavior
20120118 00:47:34< Crab___> it is a bug by some other respects, but a more long-term one (i.e. AI should defend more efficiently than by grouping near leaders in the north)
20120118 00:48:33< fendrin> Crab___: And your combat evaluation? Is it only taking the amount of defending units in count? The orcs seem rather strong in his case.
20120118 00:48:47< Crab___> 'orcs in kailan'
20120118 00:49:04< fendrin> I see.
20120118 00:49:20< Crab___> 'the number of elves of kailan, the number of orcs in kailan' 
20120118 00:49:21< fendrin> Maybe that is not a calculation that gives good results.
20120118 00:49:32< Crab___> yes, we can change it, as well
20120118 00:49:50< fendrin> No, let's not manipulate it at this point.
20120118 00:49:52< Crab___> ok
20120118 00:50:01< fendrin> We can change something in 1.10.1.
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20120118 00:50:26< fendrin> Another thing is that the leader specific recruit list is not working for the ai.
20120118 00:51:06< fendrin> I have had a look in your code but it seems very much tailed to the there is only one leader use case.
20120118 00:51:09< shadowm> I noticed a while ago that the AI cannot even deal with multiple leaders with a unique recruit list.
20120118 00:51:39< fendrin> shadowm: What happens?
20120118 00:52:32< shadowm> Absolutely nothing.
20120118 00:53:14< fendrin> No recruitment at all when an ai side has more than one leader?
20120118 00:53:34< shadowm> That's what I mean.
20120118 00:53:40< Crab___> yes, the old recruiting code can't handle per-leader recruits properly, we need a new one (since old recruiting has multiple other problems)
20120118 00:53:56< fendrin> shadowm: Please take the time and fill bug reports if you discover that important stuff.
20120118 00:54:09< fendrin> shadowm: Or talk to me as early as possible.
20120118 00:54:34< shadowm> It didn't seem important to me since the obvious workaround worked.
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20120118 00:56:45< fendrin> shadowm: thr obvious workaround would be?
20120118 00:57:03< shadowm> Using a single leader.
20120118 00:57:15< fendrin> clever boy.
20120118 00:57:29< shadowm> I didn't have a real use for the secondary leader, so the change got quickly reverted in SVN.
20120118 00:57:56< fendrin> That is a fine solution for you but the multiple leader thing is a feature since 1.8.
20120118 00:58:19< fendrin> It should work by now at least with normal global recruit lists.
20120118 01:00:22< fendrin> Crab___: I guess it is much to late to start fixing this things if the release is going to happen on Saturday.
20120118 01:00:39< Crab___> depends on what you want fixed
20120118 01:01:02< fendrin> Well, what shadowm reported seems more urgent. 
20120118 01:01:41< fendrin> Having the leader specific recruit stuff fixed would be nice as well if it is doable without introducing 10 more bugs.
20120118 01:03:34< Ivanovic> n8
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20120118 01:05:21< Crab___> Ivanovic: fixed
20120118 01:05:33< Crab___> Ivanovic: there's an oneliner for 19066
20120118 01:07:26< Espreon> Yum.
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20120118 01:08:21< Crab___> fendrin: if you want to, I'll be able to talk about those recruit issues in a few minutes, once I finish some small testing
20120118 01:09:08< fendrin> Crab___: Sure, I would love to.
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20120118 01:18:16< CIA-45> crab * r52644 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog src/playmp_controller.cpp): Fixed bug #19066: allow attack (and post-attack advancement selection) to happen normally without causing OOS if turn time runs out in attack selection dialog.
20120118 01:18:19< Crab___> Ivanovic: ^
20120118 01:18:47< Crab___> fendrin: so, now I can talk about AI recruitment
20120118 01:19:17< Crab___> fendrin: current code can handle a 'we have a leader, we have a recruit list' situation
20120118 01:19:50< fendrin> Crab___: I have already working code for the player. Most if it should be adaptable for the ai use.
20120118 01:19:52< Crab___> fendrin: so, any situation which can be easily reduced to 1+ of the above, can be processed with current code with minimal changes
20120118 01:20:13< Crab___> fendrin: the problem is not the code for figuring out what a particular leader (on a particular castle) can recruit
20120118 01:20:48< Crab___> fendrin: the problem of picking 'what to recruit with whom?', for which no code for the player exists (since the player picks it himself, without any code involved)
20120118 01:21:21< fendrin> I think the current code searches for the first leader and if this leader is not at a castle the recruitment is not possible, no matter if the second or more leaders are on a keep.
20120118 01:21:35< Crab___> also, recruitment is also dependent on 'moving leader to keep' stuff
20120118 01:22:02< Crab___> then, we can easily do a 'if at least one leader can recruit 'normally', recruit normally' for AI
20120118 01:22:13< Crab___> it should be easy to s/first leader/suitable leader
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20120118 01:22:30< anonymissimus> oh, now I need to reproduce this wb bugs with controller swicthes which I didnt yet report :|
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20120118 01:22:58< fendrin> But that is not enough if the ai has several leaders at several keeps in different castles.
20120118 01:23:17< Crab___> fendrin: yes and no.
20120118 01:23:30< Crab___> fendrin: if it has enough money, with that approach it will recruit at all the castles.
20120118 01:23:46< Crab___> fendrin: but it would not choose the 'best' location to recruit, obviously.
20120118 01:24:10< Crab___> fendrin: with enough money, it'll run out of space in the first keep, then it will pick second as suitable, and so on
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20120118 01:25:45< fendrin> I think that is good enough for now. The leader specific recruit lists will have to wait till after the release. For me the code seems to complex to dare to touch it now.
20120118 01:27:57< CIA-45> crab * r52645 /trunk/ (changelog players_changelog): Fixed bug #19083: it was fixed by r52644, but wrong bug number was referenced there. So, fixed the changelogs
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20120118 01:32:49< Crab___> fendrin: so, the plan is to make the code work like that till Saturday?
20120118 01:33:21< Crab___> fendrin: i.e. 'if at least one leader is good to recruit (possibly, with his own per-leader recruit list), then recruit'
20120118 01:33:32< fendrin> Crab___: Yes, If you can handle that. I will have time on friday for a few hours, we could work together then.
20120118 01:33:53< Crab___> you can help me by pointing to good test cases.
20120118 01:34:23< fendrin> Crab___: Okay, I will have a look tomorrow. Now is time to sleep. Are you around tomorrow?
20120118 01:34:40< Crab___> I am more or less around, and will definitely look at the logs.
20120118 01:35:07< fendrin> Crab___: Okay, see you then. Bye and good night.
20120118 01:36:10< Crab___> bye
20120118 01:43:23< CIA-45> anonymissimus * r52646 /trunk/src/play_controller.cpp: 
20120118 01:43:23< CIA-45> disable wml menu items when in linger mode without debug mode (bug #16262)
20120118 01:43:23< CIA-45> Being able to use menu items in linger mode can be very useful for
20120118 01:43:23< CIA-45> linger mode debugging so I don't want to disable them completely.
20120118 01:43:35< CIA-45> anonymissimus * r52647 /trunk/changelog: changelog update
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20120118 01:54:26< anonymissimus> wesbot: topic
20120118 01:54:28-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 150 bugs, 334 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120118 07:18:46< shadowm> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=518852#p518852 ... what a rather unexpected necro
20120118 07:19:57< shadowm> It's time like this when I wonder why I waste my time worrying about having moderators when non-moderators with moderator powers don't even bother to try to follow any kind of guidelines.
20120118 07:20:17< shadowm> Not to mention the tone.
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20120118 07:45:30 * vultraz needs Alaratalara
20120118 07:45:54< vultraz> Xcode...CRASHES when opening Wesnoth.xcodeproj
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20120118 08:35:09< timotei> vultraz: hello there :)
20120118 08:35:20< timotei> vultraz: what XCode version and Mac OSX version?
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20120118 08:49:52< timotei21> vultraz: OS X 10.7.2 and XCode 4.2 (build 4D199) work just fine with the project for me.
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20120118 10:44:54< vultraz> can someone tell me where the lua GUI stuff is located?
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20120118 10:55:43< Ivanovic> moin
20120118 10:55:55< vultraz> moin
20120118 10:56:15< vultraz> Ivanovic: BTW where's the lua GUI stuff located?
20120118 10:56:15< timotei> vultraz: did you get my message?
20120118 10:56:34< vultraz> timotei: eh...which one?
20120118 10:56:34< timotei> vultraz: regarding xcode project
20120118 10:56:44< timotei> <timotei> vultraz: hello there :)
20120118 10:56:44< timotei> <timotei> vultraz: what XCode version and Mac OSX version?
20120118 10:56:47< timotei> <timotei21> vultraz: OS X 10.7.2 and XCode 4.2 (build 4D199) work just fine with the project for me.
20120118 10:56:59< vultraz> ahh
20120118 10:57:04< vultraz> well I'm on 3.2
20120118 10:57:08< timotei> ah.
20120118 10:57:10< vultraz> so I'm downloading 4.2
20120118 10:57:14< timotei> Good:)
20120118 10:57:30< vultraz> thank god it's free in the app store :D
20120118 10:57:43< timotei> Yeah
20120118 10:57:55< timotei> Well, IIRC all XCode's were free
20120118 10:58:53< vultraz> ah :D good
20120118 10:59:16< timotei> But version 3 was very hard to get the link for it xD
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20120118 10:59:29< timotei> It was hidden somewhere in the apple id account/developer
20120118 10:59:31< vultraz> lol 
20120118 10:59:42< timotei> Yeah, since 4 was released
20120118 10:59:44< vultraz> yeah, or on the disk
20120118 11:00:09< vultraz> AppStore FTW
20120118 11:06:41< timotei> xD
20120118 11:14:09< Ivanovic> vultraz: which lua gui stuff do you mean?
20120118 11:14:15< Ivanovic> and what do you mean with located?
20120118 11:14:30< Ivanovic> the sources are somewhere in data/, probably in a .lua file
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20120118 11:31:00< CIA-45> ivanovic * r52648 /trunk/po/ (7 files in 7 dirs): updated Italian translation
20120118 11:36:56< vultraz> Ivanovic: the lua GUI bindings. like the wesnoth.get_widget_value stuff
20120118 11:37:12< vultraz> data/lua just has the WML tag defs
20120118 11:37:19< Ivanovic> have you tried to run find on data/ to get all .lua files and grep for the function?
20120118 11:37:38< Ivanovic> that is: some bindings might also be in src/ and done in C++, no idea
20120118 11:37:41< vultraz> oh
20120118 11:37:54< Ivanovic> that is: just run a grep in the root of your checkout
20120118 11:38:11< Ivanovic> grep -Ri "function_I_search_for" *
20120118 11:40:04< vultraz> thanks :D
20120118 11:42:34< Ivanovic> vultraz: http://pastebin.com/9C1rTSs1
20120118 11:42:44< Ivanovic> these are all hits for get_widget_value
20120118 11:45:08< vultraz> hummmm
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20120118 11:59:25< vultraz> hum....
20120118 11:59:41< vultraz> that seems to just be the uses....
20120118 12:00:03< vultraz> I can't find where all the actual wesnoth.functions are defined
20120118 12:07:26< shadowm> vultraz: src/scripting/lua.cpp
20120118 12:08:03< shadowm> in the LuaKernel constructor, around line 3456
20120118 12:11:08< vultraz> ahhh thanks :D
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20120118 12:15:52< timotei> Crab____: are you hired at Google? :)
20120118 12:15:57< timotei> Crab____: (hi btw)
20120118 12:16:02< vultraz> finally found the little beastie function 
20120118 12:16:17< vultraz> :)
20120118 12:16:23< Crab____> Hi. I work for Google (in Poland) since August 2011
20120118 12:16:32< timotei> Cool :)
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20120118 13:56:44< CIA-45> ai0867 * r52649 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/index.lang.php: Initialize the right variable
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20120118 14:51:37< anonymissimus> Crab____: your commit from yesterday throws a warning for me: src\unit_id.cpp|29|warning: this decimal constant is unsigned only in ISO C90|
20120118 14:52:15< anonymissimus> its a MinGw one, so actually quite a number of people should get it
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20120118 14:54:45< Crab____> anonymissimus: I'll look into it. the warning is false positive if size_t is 'unsigned >=32bits'
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20120118 14:56:35< Crab____> anonymissimus: I think that if 'u' is added to the number, the problem will go away
20120118 14:57:26< Crab____> anonymissimus: but even better is to rework it to work via INT_MAX
20120118 15:01:15< anonymissimus> INT_MAX and data types may work differently on OSes you know...
20120118 15:01:30< anonymissimus> or architectures
20120118 15:02:19< Crab____> what's the difference and why it'd be important?
20120118 15:02:49< Crab____> for our purposes, we need a value which is 1) big  2) is less than the maximum value of signed integer.
20120118 15:03:11< Crab____> Is there a case where 'INT_MAX -1' won't fit ?
20120118 15:03:46< anonymissimus> silene wrote somewhere in the forum that INT_MAX depends on architecture, when I asked him about that
20120118 15:03:56< Crab____> well, we don't care about the exact value
20120118 15:04:55< Crab____> because it's used for fake unit ids and those are 'local' only
20120118 15:05:29< timotei> anonymissimus: you sure? I knew this kind of stuff depends purely on the compiler
20120118 15:05:40< timotei> compare with that little/big endianess which is architecture based
20120118 15:05:43< timotei> compared*
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20120118 15:10:24< anonymissimus> "As for WML, the maximal integer is architecture-dependent. Most of the time it will be 2147483647, but I wouldn't bet on it"
20120118 15:10:58< anonymissimus> meaning that the maximal integer in the C++ code which parses that wml is architecture-dependent
20120118 15:12:13< anonymissimus> loonybot: << INT_MAX
20120118 15:12:22< loonybot> 2147483647
20120118 15:13:25< Crab____> so, there's small issue with savegame portability
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20120118 15:14:46< Crab____> i.e. if whiteboard would save the planned units in the format which includes their 'underlying ids', and if a savegame with planned recruits is moved to the PC where maximum int value is lower than the maximum int value of the previous PC
20120118 15:15:29< anonymissimus> i get that warning also under ubuntu
20120118 15:15:39< Crab____> Of course, the proper fix is that whiteboard should not save the fake units to the savegame, since planned units are units that should be recruitable 'now', so just a location + unit type name would fit..
20120118 15:15:54< Crab____> the warning is not important here, it's about a different thing
20120118 15:16:38< Crab____> it's about an unformatted number which can be interpreted differently depending on mood.
20120118 15:16:40< anonymissimus> loonybot: <<UINT_MAX
20120118 15:16:41< loonybot> 4294967295
20120118 15:17:35< Crab____> and the old value of initial fake id:
20120118 15:17:45< Crab____> loonybot: << size_t(-1)
20120118 15:17:45< loonybot> 18446744073709551615
20120118 15:19:41< Crab____> anonymissimus: since you get the warning, can you please check (when you'll have time) that adding 'u' after a number fixes the warning?
20120118 15:20:06< anonymissimus> everybody else should get it as well
20120118 15:20:23< anonymissimus> that is, our ubuntu devs
20120118 15:21:14< anonymissimus> and I dont understand what you want me to do
20120118 15:22:09< Crab____> static const size_t INITIAL_FAKE_ID = 4294967295u;
20120118 15:22:45< Crab____> otherwise, I will try to get this warning today in the evening (I also use a variant of ubuntu)
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20120118 16:33:45< gabba> Crab____: thanks a lot for looking into my unit map error
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20120118 16:37:18< Crab____> thanks. as you see, it's not a problem in unit map but more like a consequence of weak support of size_t in config (so the code had to static_cast the ids to int sometimes, losing significant bytes)
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20120118 16:42:36< Crab____> gabba: as for the first question, about unit iterators, if the iterator is valid, there's a unit. Thus, iterator will become invalid when unit is removed from unit map, but in some cases it will become valid again later (if the unit with the same id is reinserted into the unit map)
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20120118 16:44:08< Crab____> gabba: so, if, for example, we have multiple planned moves set up, and then we do one move, which triggers a WML moveto event which adds 1 hp to each unit ...
20120118 16:44:38< Crab____> gabba: then, the locations of the units will be unchanged and underlying id's would be unchanged
20120118 16:44:55< gabba> Crab____: I added some unit tests for the unit map, and while doing so I realized you can search for units by underlying ID. So I think I'm gonna use that to track whether units still exist or not, it seems more reliable than pointers + location checks or iterators.
20120118 16:44:57< Crab____> and planned moves have a high chance of being valid afterwards
20120118 16:45:40< Crab____> gabba: Iterators are more reliable than underlying ids
20120118 16:45:53< Crab____> (that was not always the case)
20120118 16:46:15< Crab____> gabba: I would use a 'iterator + location' pair to track units
20120118 16:46:16< gabba> Really? I thought underlying IDs were created with the unit and stayed the same for their whole lifetime
20120118 16:47:14< Crab____> gabba: WML can modify them, directly or not. A particular case is when an existing unit is cloned and inserted multiple times.
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20120118 16:47:52< Crab____> gabba: but, tracking by id would be ok, as well.
20120118 16:48:02< Crab____> gabba: but you'll need to check the validity of the moves
20120118 16:48:19< CIA-45> anonymissimus * r52650 /trunk/src/unit_id.cpp: fix a gcc compiler warning following Crab's suggestion
20120118 16:48:57< Crab____> gabba: i.e., if a unit with uid of 17 had a move planned from (3,4) to (7,9), you'll need to check not only that uid 17 is alive, but that uid 17 can do a move 'from (3,4) to (7,9)'
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20120118 16:49:36< Crab____> i.e. if it was teleported by WML to (3,5), it, imo, should invalidate the move even if it can reach (7,9) anyway
20120118 16:49:40< gabba> Crab____: Sure, I already do plenty of checks for move validity
20120118 16:49:57< gabba> Crab____: My main problem is that I change the appearance of units to be ghosted, and then I need to reset them to normal once they're out of planned moves, for whatever reason
20120118 16:50:23< Crab____> gabba: why do you need to reset them to normal?
20120118 16:50:55< Crab____> gabba: can't you just take the 'new' original unit map and reapply all the planned moves, where they are still valid?
20120118 16:51:06< gabba> But if WML extracts and reinserts the unit, the iterator to it is invalid (I've verified this with a simple unit test), and I can't rely on the location
20120118 16:51:21< Crab____> ... in that case, you'll never have to reset anything, the game would take care of that ..
20120118 16:52:19< gabba> Crab____: Not sure we're understanding each other. Basically I change the unit animation...
20120118 16:52:42< Crab____> but isn't the change of animation done on the copy?
20120118 16:52:58< gabba> ... and I need to reliably set it back to "standing" once I know that every planned action associated with the unit is either executed, deleted or invalid
20120118 16:53:05< gabba> Nope, I do it on the real unit
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20120118 16:53:32< Crab____> an, then, I understand
20120118 16:53:47< gabba> to put emphasis on the target location and cut down on visual clutter, you see
20120118 16:54:26< Crab____> Can you remove your animations just before 'something happens' ?
20120118 16:54:47< Crab____> i.e. not after executing things, but before
20120118 16:54:47< Crab____> and reappy after
20120118 16:54:47< Crab____> s/reappy/reapply
20120118 16:54:57< gabba> Crab____: hmm, not a bad idea
20120118 16:55:06< Crab____> since, if you remove just before something happens, you can be sure that nothing has yet changed, and you know the original one
20120118 16:55:07< gabba> I already use that approach for some other things
20120118 16:55:24< Crab____> otherwise, there's a huge mess involved in replicating things that the engine does
20120118 16:55:38< gabba> Problem is, the "something happens" must absolutely not include any forced drawing
20120118 16:55:59< Crab____> I mean 'gamestate changes'
20120118 16:56:36< elias> my phone shows a wesnoth update, wonder whay that means
20120118 16:57:02< Gambit> :o
20120118 16:57:03< gabba> Crab____: btw, on a separate/parallel note, I noticed that you made some unit and game map change notifiers for the AI framework - I think it would be beneficial to move them out into a more generalized area that we can both use
20120118 16:57:37< Crab____> yes, it will. as well as the game rules checks
20120118 16:57:57< gabba> Crab____: I want to move gradually from "always assume the worst" after a WML change, to reacting a bit more specifically to changes, but not for 1.10 :P
20120118 16:57:58< Crab____> for example, note that for AI, I had to duplicate most of the 'is this attack allowed by game rules?' checks
20120118 16:58:15< Crab____> well, after a WML changes, we should always assume the worst :)
20120118 16:58:40< Crab____> but, in some cases, it can be optimized away (if a particular piece of code is killed with fire...)
20120118 16:58:47< gabba> yeah, but if you watch the unit map for changes and don't get a notification, you can be sure the WML didn't touch it - a big benefit for me
20120118 16:59:12< Crab____> well, the unit map can be the same but units might change or terrain might change
20120118 16:59:48< gabba> more notifiers :P
20120118 16:59:50< elias> guess just some marketplace glitch
20120118 17:01:32< Crab____> but, to start untangling the mess I need to find a way to use something like a whiteboard engine to duplicate delayed shroud updates.
20120118 17:02:21< Crab____> there, just the ui, display, and hotkeys are different, but the engine can be the same.
20120118 17:02:41< gabba> Crab____: yeah, that project of yours interests me a lot, but I'm not 100% convinced it can work - yet
20120118 17:02:52< Gambit> elias: Sad
20120118 17:03:30< gabba> Crab____: main issue being that delay shroud updates takes into account ambushes, and whiteboard can't
20120118 17:03:31< Crab____> gabba: why not? it's possible to use the whiteboard like DSU, it just requires a lot more clicks than usual.
20120118 17:04:06< elias> well it is downloadingsomething now
20120118 17:04:36< Gambit> elias: Please keep us posted!
20120118 17:04:49< Crab____> gabba: yes, there's the ambush/sighted/moveto issue
20120118 17:04:54< gabba> Crab____: it's a question of player expectation: after "planning" with delay shroud updates, the player knows all his moves are possible; with the whiteboard, he's sending them into the unknown
20120118 17:05:59< Crab____> gabba: yes, but that can be fixed by adding a 'will this particular move lead to magic?' function 
20120118 17:06:17< gabba> Crab____: huh??? :P
20120118 17:06:24< elias> oh, cjhopman is here anyway, i guess he would know :)
20120118 17:06:36< Crab____> gabba: a function which will return 'true' if a particular move will trigger nonundoable WML/game events.
20120118 17:07:17< gabba> trust Crab____ to add magic functions to your code ;)
20120118 17:07:22< gabba> But more seriously,
20120118 17:07:36< Crab____> gabba: nonundoable events are like sighted/moveto events without  [allow_undo][/allow_undo] , plus ambush
20120118 17:08:18< gabba> Ok I see, but how would you use that without revealing in the interface that said hex has something special about it?
20120118 17:08:18< Crab____> gabba: so, for each planned move, we will be able to check if the move will trigger those, and, if yes, commit every planned move that happened before that.
20120118 17:08:40< Crab____> gabba: well, it is to be done just after the player 'plans' the move
20120118 17:08:48< Crab____> gabba: like in DSU, when a player does a DSU move
20120118 17:09:27< Crab____> gabba: it will trigger ambush immediately, then
20120118 17:09:35< Crab____> gabba: so, the same for whiteboard-emulated dsu
20120118 17:10:10< gabba> Crab____: ok, I understand better -  you really want to duplicate the DSU behavior, not merge it at all with whiteboard behavior/expectations
20120118 17:10:21< gabba> just change the backend, basically
20120118 17:10:25< Crab____> gabba: yes; so the whiteboard will remain as it is
20120118 17:10:37< Crab____> gabba: and DSU will use it's engine as a backend
20120118 17:10:56< gabba> Crab____: and so, how will this new backend fix the sighted event problem, again?
20120118 17:11:19< gabba> Just so I can finish wrapping my head around this
20120118 17:11:58< Crab____> gabba: whiteboard is 'honest' in the respect that it only does the moves which are possible to do, and it does them in order, updating shroud on each move.
20120118 17:12:27< gabba> Ok, I guess "order" is the keyword here
20120118 17:12:38< Crab____> gabba: DSU breaks causality with this, since it doesn't update shroud at the moment where it should had done that.
20120118 17:13:03< Crab____> so, if we reformulate DSU to work on top of whiteboard, then the DSU will obey the rules, as well
20120118 17:13:32< gabba> Crab____: ok, very nice. I now understand what you wanna do, and can't see a problem with it for the moment
20120118 17:13:45< Crab____> so, when we plan a move which will trigger the 'sighted' event, we will be forced to commit all our earlier moves
20120118 17:14:01< gabba> should be pretty easy to do, as well... I mean it's wb - visuals + a special case
20120118 17:14:11< Crab____> most of the stuff is easy, yes
20120118 17:14:17< Crab____> but there's the catch :)
20120118 17:14:39< Crab____> it would require reworking wesnoth's event system to behave 'upside-down' in some situations
20120118 17:15:05< gabba> Crab____: ah yes, so you have a clue about which hexes will trigger something
20120118 17:15:12< Crab____> yes.
20120118 17:15:27< Crab____> but, we only need this after a hex and unit are known
20120118 17:15:44< Crab____> but, it is to be decided taking all previous planned moves into account
20120118 17:16:02< Crab____> because there can be filters in events for stuff like nearby units
20120118 17:16:12< Crab____> and, some WML would not well with it
20120118 17:16:30< Crab____> and, we might need to expand wml a bit, to allow authors to rework their events slightly
20120118 17:17:06< gabba> hmm, I don't know well enough how filters work to comment about this
20120118 17:17:07< Crab____> because instead of 'moveto : if CONDITION then do something' they would need to do 'moveto if CONDITION : do something'
20120118 17:17:12< Crab____> just note ^
20120118 17:17:29< gabba> but at least taking into account all previous planned moves is already taken care of by building the wb unit map
20120118 17:17:34< Crab____> yes, exactly
20120118 17:17:51< Crab____> the DSU won't play well with code which triggers always and then checks things
20120118 17:18:18< Crab____> instead, DSU needs code which triggers if the condition is set
20120118 17:19:15< Crab____> but it can be easily fixed on WML level (maybe with small modifications to the language to readd misbehaving features in a good way)
20120118 17:19:26< anonymissimus> Crab____: I don't get it ATM :)
20120118 17:19:51< gabba> Crab____: guess you could always add a simulation mode to WML, which triggers events just as expected, but where the engine doesn't do any actual changes to game state
20120118 17:19:58< anonymissimus> but I trust you that you've got a good concept
20120118 17:20:05< Crab____> gabba: no, it's easier than that
20120118 17:20:25< gabba> Crab____: Sounds like it could also mess up expectations from the WML side and is probably harder than minor WML changes though :P
20120118 17:20:33< anonymissimus> "moveto if CONDITION : do something" ?
20120118 17:21:04< Crab____> anonymissimus: imagine a moveto event which triggers always and then uses lua to check if a unit is an elven archer on hex(17,18)
20120118 17:21:36< Crab____> anonymissimus: from an engine point of view, this event would trigger on each move, thus, DSU would be forced to commit after each move, which is worthless.
20120118 17:22:43< Crab____> anonymissimus: if instead, the event is reworked to have a 'filter' part, the engine would be able to know, before the move or before executing the event, that the event would only trigger for elven archer on hex(17,18); thus, all other moves are allowed to be 'planned' by DSU, they would be undoable 
20120118 17:22:44< gabba> ^good example, but I hope not many people code their addons like that
20120118 17:23:05< Crab____> anonymissimus: it's similar to the problem of 'hey, why I lost my undoable moves?'
20120118 17:23:19< anonymissimus> well, with the current engine, I would use allow_undo in the case that I don't actually do something in that event
20120118 17:23:40< gabba> Sad part is I guess WML changes wouldn't make it into a stable version for a long time... we need to move to a 6-month release cycle or something
20120118 17:23:42< Crab____> anonymissimus: yes, and in this case, engine would be able to read the allow_undo and take it into account.
20120118 17:23:43< anonymissimus> "dp something" meaning, change the gamestate, mainly
20120118 17:24:19< Crab____> anonymissimus: like 'so, this event triggers for every move, but it's undoable, so we can allow the move to be planned anyway'
20120118 17:27:22< anonymissimus> well I dont think I get this...if zookeeper, me and the other wml devs already have probs understanding...
20120118 17:28:13< anonymissimus> wml should also be easy to use, and the current filter system on events in hard to get in the beginning
20120118 17:28:56< Crab____> that's why there would be a need to expand the filter system to be more easy to use
20120118 17:31:00< Crab____> but, in most cases, there won't be problems.
20120118 17:31:47< anonymissimus> gabba: I think most addons have several of such events ;)
20120118 17:32:17< Crab____> I'll try to explain in other words: for best results, WML events should try to only trigger if they will to change the game state.
20120118 17:32:17< Crab____> (this will make things faster, as well)
20120118 17:32:26< Crab____> s/will to/will
20120118 17:32:34< gabba> anonymissimus: dunno, just seems to me like an evil way of programming, but maybe wml doesn't offer any better way of detecting a unit moves somewhere as of now
20120118 17:33:23< Crab____> gabba: check http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EventWML
20120118 17:33:50< Crab____> gabba: there's a number of filters already, including a generic [filter_condition]
20120118 17:34:51< anonymissimus> well yes, and isn't filter_condition sort of whats wanted
20120118 17:35:05< Crab____> yes
20120118 17:35:52< Crab____> wml events which check the conditions via various filters will only trigger when they intend to change the game state, so the engine would be able to check the filters when a move is planned
20120118 17:36:27< Crab____> so, it will know if there are events that would be fired.
20120118 17:36:47< Crab____> so, if there are no non-undoable events, the move would be allowed to be planned.
20120118 17:37:42< Crab____> (no non-undoable events among those that would be fired after that specific move)
20120118 17:39:32< anonymissimus> that would mean to drop support for the allow_undo tag in moveto events, and replace all occurances with filter_condition ?
20120118 17:39:52< Crab____> no, allow_undo is good, as well.
20120118 17:40:18< Crab____> what is bad and would need to be replaced if we want the DSU to work better:
20120118 17:41:12< Crab____> [event] name=moveto  [if] some_condition [then] .... [/if] [/event]
20120118 17:41:18< Crab____> ^ that is bad
20120118 17:41:57< Crab____> [event] name=moveto [filter_condition] same_condition [/filter_condition] .... [/event] 
20120118 17:42:00< Crab____> ^ that is good
20120118 17:42:18< Crab____> (or any other filters required by author)
20120118 17:43:02< Crab____> if [allow_undo] is present, then we trust the author to not mess up, so allow_undo is ok. 
20120118 17:43:30< anonymissimus> personally I aim for the scond syntax whenever possible already, but you will never get all wml authors to follow such guidelines
20120118 17:43:33< CIA-45> ai0867 * r52651 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/bin/update-gettext-stats: Fix wescamp updater
20120118 17:44:46< Crab____> well, we don't need them to do it.
20120118 17:44:53< anonymissimus> (increadible how easy filter_condition was to add and how useful it is)
20120118 17:45:09< Crab____> anonymissimus: but, if someone asks, for example 'why is DSU working poorly with my era?', then this would be one of the most likely answers.
20120118 17:45:38< Crab____> but, it will work as much as possible even in the presence of poorly-written wml.
20120118 17:45:49< Crab____> yes, it's good that it already exists:)
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20120118 18:49:48-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: HARD string and feature-freeze active for trunk and the 1.10 announcment | 149 bugs, 334 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120118 18:54:31< Drakefriend> e7
20120118 18:54:46< Drakefriend> +85po00,µµµµµµµµµµ Z{Uh6j 7/g
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20120118 19:03:29< CIA-45> ivanovic * r52652 /trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs): updated Chinese (Traditional) and German translation
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20120118 20:34:48< anonymissimus> timotei: have you or any other MSVC dev ever tried to get MSVC to use the config::debug() function when inspecting a variable ?
20120118 20:35:01< timotei> config::debug()?
20120118 20:35:09< timotei> never heard of it
20120118 20:35:12< anonymissimus> is it possible to get gdb to do that ?
20120118 20:35:43< anonymissimus> well, the boost stuff that it shows for variables of type config isnt really helpful
20120118 20:36:11< anonymissimus> so I need to insert manual debug messages and restart which is very time consuming and tedious
20120118 20:36:54< anonymissimus> timotei: config::debug is a lovely function, you can check it out by using wesnoth.debug for any wml table, for instance
20120118 20:37:05< timotei> ah, it's something from wesnoth's codfebase?
20120118 20:37:10< timotei> I thought is something from MSVC :P
20120118 20:37:32< anonymissimus> no; I want MSVC's debugger to call that function
20120118 20:37:49< anonymissimus> or if gdb can do that it'd be great as well
20120118 20:38:31< anonymissimus> but since thonsew coded those pretty printers I supposed it doesn't work
20120118 20:40:40< timotei> hmm
20120118 20:40:49< timotei> and what stops you from MSVC to call that function?
20120118 20:40:59< anonymissimus> I dunno
20120118 20:41:18< anonymissimus> MSVC prints some ugly boost stuff
20120118 20:41:51< timotei> ah
20120118 20:42:48< CIA-45> ivanovic * r52653 /trunk/po/ (5 files in 5 dirs): updated Slovak translation
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20120118 20:54:48< anonymissimus> shadowm: do you know or remember what game_display::highlight_hex does ? couldn't figure it out
20120118 20:55:12< shadowm> I don't remember. I'd have to look at it again.
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20120118 20:57:42< shadowm> I suspect display::select_hex() sets the current focus (???) and display::highlight_hex() sets the currently hovered hex so it can be properly rendered as such (with the golden frame in 1.9.x, for example) in the next repaint cycle
20120118 20:58:17< shadowm> The game_display counterparts have to do the same thing in principle with specific internal behavior changes, since it inherits from display.
20120118 20:58:44< shadowm> In any case, alink would know this code better than I. When I implemented [select_unit] and its two Lua implementation details he wasn't around, so I had to do without his help.
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20120118 22:04:02< mordante> servus
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20120118 22:05:47< Espreon> mordante: Ic grete þe.
20120118 22:06:12< mordante> hi Espreon 
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20120118 22:13:04< vultraz> mordante: how do you make a double click register in a toggle_panel?
20120118 22:13:28< vultraz> without triggering dialog_callbacks?
20120118 22:15:01< vultraz> on a certain containing widget?
20120118 22:15:10< vultraz> eg, like the campaign dialog does it
20120118 22:15:43< mordante> there is set_callback_mouse_left_double_click()
20120118 22:17:06< vultraz> same args as set_dialog_callback?
20120118 22:18:53< mordante> jein, it can have the same arguments but you can bind extra arguments as well
20120118 22:19:03< mordante> not sure what you exactly want
20120118 22:19:31< mordante> if's also possible to hook directly in the panel's event queue, but that should normally not be required
20120118 22:23:20< vultraz> mordante: ahhh ok. BTW I was also looking in the definition of set_dialog_value to see if I could make it recalc a string's length, but I don;t understand that code...
20120118 22:23:52< vultraz> I MIGHT have got get_widget_value to read form labels but I have to wait till Xcode finished downloading to see
20120118 22:26:15< vultraz> I wish I did know how to get set_dialog_value to recalc string lengths....
20120118 22:26:26< mordante> I don't know that code either, I rather tend to stay away from the Lua stuff
20120118 22:26:53< vultraz> well it seems that part is written in C++
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20120118 22:28:41< gabba> Does anybody know for sure which variable is supposed to hold the team whose turn is currently is, and the team who is currently viewing i.e. moving the mouse around and clicking on stuff in the local client?
20120118 22:28:54< mordante> true, but it also calls all kind of Lua functions to do things, that's the part I prefer to keep away from
20120118 22:29:50< Ivanovic> gabba: what is the current status for the whiteboard issues?
20120118 22:30:27< gabba> Ivanovic: I have good hope of having fixed all the critical stuff for Sunday. So, on track.
20120118 22:30:44< Ivanovic> uhm, *saturday* would be better
20120118 22:30:45< Ivanovic> ;)
20120118 22:30:52< gabba> can do, I think
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20120118 22:33:09< Ivanovic> great!
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20120118 22:38:41< gabba> @all, I'm asking the question above because the mouse handler, display and play_controller all have their "current team" and "current side" variables which are assigned at various times, and it gets pretty hard to know which to rely on.
20120118 22:44:49< mordante> I'm off night
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20120118 22:49:15< anonymissimus> gabba: yup, those are confusing
20120118 22:52:10< anonymissimus> gabba: game_display::current_team is the side index of the side which belongs to the gui of this client (where the code runs)
20120118 22:53:23< anonymissimus> game_display::activeTeam_ is the side index of the side which is currently active
20120118 22:53:46< anonymissimus> that is, it is (the wml var) $side_number-1
20120118 22:55:21< anonymissimus> and can you give me the exact names of the variables in those other classes so I could look for them ?
20120118 23:01:43< anonymissimus> gabba: play_controller::player_number_ is basically the same as game_display::activeTeam_, but shifted by one, that is, it's the side number of the currently active side, same as the wml var $side_number
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20120118 23:04:31< vultraz> oh hey Exasperation 
20120118 23:04:41< Exasperation> hey, vultraz
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20120118 23:05:26< Exasperation> I noticed you were looking into the guts of the Lua dialog functions
20120118 23:06:30< Exasperation> unfortunately, the only person who knows everything that's going on in there is gone now, but I would be happy to help if I can
20120118 23:06:32< anonymissimus> (I like to explore the engine starting with addon wml or lua code, that's what I understand :) )
20120118 23:07:46< vultraz> it's hard because I don't understand C++
20120118 23:08:43< Exasperation> I can see where that would make it difficult :-)
20120118 23:08:50< vultraz> ;)
20120118 23:09:54< vultraz> http://pastebin.com/Xr12DPZk are all those if s special instructions for specific widgets?
20120118 23:10:01< anonymissimus> mouse_handler::side_num seems to be the same as play_controller::player_number
20120118 23:10:27< anonymissimus> there is room for rectoring, something like a class "current" holding those values
20120118 23:11:23< Exasperation> yeah, they are
20120118 23:11:47< Exasperation> what "value" means is different for different widgets
20120118 23:12:02< Exasperation> for a slider, it's the number the slider's set to
20120118 23:12:31< Exasperation> for an image or label it's the label string
20120118 23:12:47< Exasperation> for a listbox, it's the element of the list that's selected
20120118 23:12:50< anonymissimus> vultraz: the lua interface is a "very clean + easy to understand" portion of teh complete wesnoth codebase though ;)
20120118 23:13:08< Exasperation> so each one needs to handle values in different ways
20120118 23:14:53< vultraz> though....it seems the function runs through the ifs and then hits the else....so...if you have a widget not listen there....it seems it should hit the 'unsupported widget' warning...but...I think I;m wrong here
20120118 23:15:29< Exasperation> that's what happens if none of the special cases is matched
20120118 23:16:20< vultraz> but it seems all that's outside the if blocks is "gui2::twidget *w = find_widget(L, 2, false);"
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20120118 23:18:21< Exasperation> the dynamic_cast assignments return values that tell the if statements if the cast was successful or not
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20120118 23:19:23< vultraz> ahhh
20120118 23:19:31< vultraz> so...ONLY those widgets can be set?
20120118 23:19:54< Exasperation> those widgets or widgets that inherit from them
20120118 23:20:38< vultraz> ah
20120118 23:20:48< vultraz> so..which one does it consider labels in
20120118 23:20:56< Exasperation> if you look at set_dialog_callback, you'll see a case for tclickable
20120118 23:21:13< Exasperation> so that case catches both the button and repeating button, for example
20120118 23:22:22< vultraz> ahhhhhh
20120118 23:22:25< Exasperation> all widgets are descended from tcontrol, and all tcontrols have a label
20120118 23:22:53< Exasperation> so the fallthrough for set_dialog_value is that if there's no special case, you set the label
20120118 23:26:00< vultraz> and the problem is it doesn't recalculate the length
20120118 23:26:31< Exasperation> well, the size of the widget
20120118 23:27:09< Exasperation> you have to be careful about saying "length", because the image widget is also a type of label widget
20120118 23:27:40< Exasperation> where the label string is the filename of the image
20120118 23:28:14< vultraz> ohhhhh
20120118 23:28:18< vultraz> so...
20120118 23:28:39< vultraz> the widgets stuck at the size they're given...
20120118 23:29:35< vultraz> but wait...wouldn't the 'horizontal/vertical_grow=' fix that?
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20120118 23:30:02< vultraz> if it were applied to said column 
20120118 23:30:02< Exasperation> now you're getting into details I don't know :-(
20120118 23:30:32< vultraz> well...I'll have to try
20120118 23:30:35< vultraz> and see
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20120118 23:30:46< gabba> anonymissimus, thanks, that clears things up
20120118 23:32:15< vultraz> ok...to move on to get_widget_value
20120118 23:32:21< vultraz> seems to be the same format...
20120118 23:32:51< Exasperation> pretty much, yeah
20120118 23:33:08< Exasperation> there's no fall-through-to-label case, though
20120118 23:33:51< Exasperation> which is why you can't get the value of a label by using it
20120118 23:34:08< vultraz> hum.....you shouldn't have to list label and image widgets in the exception lists, right?
20120118 23:34:08< vultraz> ahh...
20120118 23:34:59< vultraz> so might it work by adding this: http://pastebin.com/H1bWaPBq ?
20120118 23:37:53< vultraz> I can't test it until Xcode finishes downloading.
20120118 23:38:31< vultraz> 3.2 does't seem to fully work on 10.7
20120118 23:40:30< vultraz> Exasperation: ?
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20120118 23:43:33< Exasperation> sorry about that, lost connection for a second
20120118 23:43:55< vultraz> no problem 
20120118 23:44:07< Exasperation> you're close, but I think you want t->get_label() and t->get_image() instead of what you have there
20120118 23:46:26< Exasperation> (although I think t->get_image() just calls t->get_label(), so you could use t->get_label() for both)
20120118 23:46:35< vultraz> humm..thanks :)
20120118 23:46:43< Exasperation> well, either calls or does the same thing as
20120118 23:47:16< vultraz> I'll test it later when Xcode finishes downloading
20120118 23:47:28< timotei> vultraz: ah, right. I guess the crash is more like xcode vs 10.7 than xcode vs wesnoth project
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20120118 23:47:40< timotei> I expect such things since Apple dropped support for Rosetta
20120118 23:48:30< vultraz> timotei: probably 
20120118 23:49:07< anonymissimus> gabba: btw did I mention all variables you are referring to ? do perhaps I refactor them in 1.11
20120118 23:49:28< vultraz> someone should put a note in projectfiles/Xcode/README
20120118 23:49:33< anonymissimus> if they hold the same information there should be only one variable
20120118 23:50:52< gabba> anonymissimus: there's also mouse_handler::side_num_ which I just verified gets assigned the value of player_number_ upon side initialization.
20120118 23:51:00< gabba> Very counter-intuitive
20120118 23:51:30< gabba> get assigned the value of resources::controller::player_number_, to be exact
20120118 23:51:46< gabba> And then there are the getter functions for those
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20120118 23:53:18< gabba> game_display::viewing_side() returns game_display::currentTeam + 1
20120118 23:54:08< gabba> anonymissimus: there's play_controller::current_side() which returns player_number_
20120118 23:54:49< gabba> Note the confusion with "current" here between play_controller::current_side and game_display::current_team
20120118 23:55:45< vultraz> Exasperation: I'll be back later. Thanks for the help :D
20120118 23:56:06< Exasperation> ok, later.  And you're welcome. :-)
20120118 23:57:01< gabba> anonymissimus: I'm starting to think that the team/side/player distinction should be reduced to just one of the terms. Better to use +1 or -1 when appropriate than the confusion this causes.
20120118 23:58:07< Crab_> well, in general, side was 1-based everywhere
20120118 23:58:16< Crab_> don't remember about the rest of the terms
20120118 23:59:26< anonymissimus> wml has side_number which starts at 1
20120118 23:59:49< anonymissimus> but C++ has the teams array, naturally starting at 0, so we dont get around it
--- Log closed Thu Jan 19 00:00:43 2012