--- Log opened Fri Feb 10 00:00:26 2012
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20120210 10:52:22< Ivanovic> moin
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20120210 11:12:23< vultraz> hey
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20120210 16:31:12< Espreon> And now we have to wait till Saturday...
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20120210 16:41:30< fendrin> Ivanovic: hi, would you help me with registering fabi as a reserved nick?
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20120210 16:42:34< fendrin> boucman: Hi, are you around?
20120210 16:42:43< boucman> yup
20120210 16:42:48< boucman> how can I help you :)
20120210 16:43:16< fendrin> boucman: Are you still on the move to something else than gna issue?
20120210 16:43:32< fendrin> I would like to add another feature request that I think is important.
20120210 16:43:50< boucman> fendrin: i think Ivanovic is the one looking into the different hosting solutions
20120210 16:44:01< boucman> but i'm still interested, what feature are you thinking of ,
20120210 16:45:21< fendrin> I think it is a very good thing to have the bug tracker the same account like we have on our forums. Thus every user of the forum could fill a bug report/feature request without the need to create an extra account.
20120210 16:46:00< boucman> fendrin: that's probably very complicated to do since we host our forums ourselves
20120210 16:46:08< fendrin> And we are able to give the report a face and know with who we dealing with more easily.
20120210 16:46:22< boucman> it would mean we would have to create an account on the bug hoster for every user we have
20120210 16:46:32< fendrin> Maybe, but that also means that we have total control about the forums.
20120210 16:46:51< fendrin> Yes, but is that an issue?
20120210 16:47:02< boucman> so unless we host our bugs ourselves or we use a "common id scheme" like google id/facebook id/open id it's not realistic
20120210 16:47:07< fendrin> Computers are build to handle huge amount of datas.
20120210 16:47:29< boucman> it's not considered good manner to create an account for someone on a third party site
20120210 16:47:48< boucman> suppose we decide to use sourceforge for bug hosting
20120210 16:48:03< boucman> would we create a SF account for all our users ? 
20120210 16:48:04< fendrin> Well, we could make the users to create the account there and authenticate against the site.
20120210 16:48:41< boucman> so they create an SF account and we use taht account on our forums ?
20120210 16:49:04< boucman> I understand why you want this feature, but the only realistic way to do it would be to host the bugs ourselves...
20120210 16:49:29< fendrin> Well, no
20120210 16:49:45< fendrin> There is an api for github for example.
20120210 16:49:55< fendrin> It can be used to authenticate against their system.
20120210 16:50:02< fendrin> Should be an easy coding task.
20120210 16:50:35< boucman> ok, but that still means every wesnoth user that want to use our forum would need a github account, i'm not sure all the non-programmers around want that
20120210 16:50:44< boucman> is anonymous bug reporting such a problem ?
20120210 16:51:09< fendrin> Well, most of those bugs are not good enough.
20120210 16:51:35< fendrin> And if you ask questions the original reporter is not answering anymore.
20120210 16:51:43< fendrin> I hate anonymous bug reports.
20120210 16:52:02< boucman> I am not sure that opening accounts on a different service is such a good idea, unless we start using something like openID to share account
20120210 16:54:56< Gambit> The solution would be to host our own bug tracker as well.
20120210 16:55:13< fendrin> Well, it would be nice to have the forum, the wiki, the bug reports, the multiplayer server, and a possible scenario/campaign feedback site to share the same account.
20120210 16:55:15< Gambit> Though I don't agree with the "problem" to begin with.
20120210 16:56:01< boucman> Gambit: indeed that's the easiest way to deal with that, but it's a maintainence cost...
20120210 16:56:21< Gambit> I was just adding to the conversation. I don't think my suggestion is a good idea. :)
20120210 16:58:18< fendrin> And if there is a project hoster which offers phpBB support? And we could just migrate our forums to the hoster?
20120210 17:02:50< Ivanovic> fendrin: you mean you want to register your nick via nickserv?
20120210 17:03:19< Ivanovic> regarding "results of fosdem" i wanted to write a mail yesterday but then it came to my mind that with gna.org offline there is no ML atm...
20120210 17:03:42< Ivanovic> fendrin: since you already have fendrin there is a way to directly link fabi and fendrin
20120210 17:03:54< fendrin> cool
20120210 17:04:20< Gambit> ./msg nickserv group
20120210 17:04:25< Gambit> When your name is fabi
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20120210 17:06:17< Ivanovic> fabi__: gamit already told you the stuff, the explaination is available at http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
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20120210 17:06:41< Ivanovic> boucman: btw applications for gsoc start already
20120210 17:06:50< Ivanovic> could you give our info a one over?
20120210 17:07:02< Ivanovic> and, even more important: do we have actual project ideas/proposals?
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20120210 17:11:00< fendrin> Ivanovic, Gambit: Thanks, that worked.
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20120210 17:13:03< boucman> Ivanovic: oh ? we can subscribe as projects already ? 
20120210 17:13:11< boucman> i'll go through our form, sure
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20120210 17:29:25< vultraz> hey timotei 
20120210 17:29:38< timotei> vultraz: o hi!
20120210 17:29:41< vultraz> any progress on that bug?
20120210 17:29:56< vultraz> string disposal or whatnot
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20120210 17:39:36< timotei> vultraz: lol, no
20120210 17:39:40< timotei> I don't have it, I can't fix it :)
20120210 17:39:42< timotei> sorry:(
20120210 17:39:46< timotei> hmm
20120210 17:39:58< timotei> Wie gehst du means how do you do, right?
20120210 17:40:15< timotei> Google translates tells me stupid things... or I've lost the smallest sense of German 
20120210 17:40:16< timotei> ...
20120210 17:40:19< timotei> translate*
20120210 17:40:32< loonycyborg> iirc it means 'where are you going'
20120210 17:41:03< timotei> yeah, gehst from gehen... But I don't know why I know it's for how do you do too?
20120210 17:41:26< loonycyborg> Maybe it's an idiom?
20120210 17:42:04< timotei> elias, fendrin ^
20120210 17:42:14< fendrin> Ivanovic: About two brothers. There are some questions left.
20120210 17:43:12< loonycyborg> Actually Wie means how, so it's definitely idiom :P
20120210 17:43:19< fendrin> Ivanovic: Do you like to have all the elves using the new wood flag? And is it okay to give the hero + allies the loyalist flag?
20120210 17:43:41< Ivanovic> fendrin: i am fine with both
20120210 17:44:33< fendrin> Ivanovic: Okay, everything else is just code cleanups, with no cosmetic appearance. Do you want to read the patch or shall I just commit it?
20120210 17:45:01< Ivanovic> once svn works again commit it and i'll read the cleanup later on
20120210 17:45:08< fendrin> okay
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20120210 18:16:28< timotei> http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=6FWUjJF1ai0
20120210 18:16:29< timotei>  :))
20120210 18:16:32< timotei> Funny time
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20120210 18:36:02< Ivanovic> fendrin, boucman: btw i was not (yet) looking for a gna replacement
20120210 18:36:14< boucman> k
20120210 18:36:24< Ivanovic> that is: the quesiton "should we (now/finally) switch to git" was brought up and we talked about what we would want/need
20120210 18:36:44< Ivanovic> fendrin: regarding your idea with "shared user data between boards and tracker": in theory a nice idea
20120210 18:36:49< boucman> Ivanovic: do you inted to post a post-FOSDEM mail on the ML ?
20120210 18:37:04< Ivanovic> we'd just have to find a bugtracker with phpbb capabilities...
20120210 18:37:31< Ivanovic> boucman: i planned to write a (very short!) summery some time yesterday when i saw that basically all of gna is down
20120210 18:37:40< boucman> heh
20120210 18:37:48< Ivanovic> in this short summary i planned to eg ask mordante (who took notes!) to post more details
20120210 18:38:39< timotei> Ivanovic: so you are looking for some bugtracker integrated with phpbb?
20120210 18:40:22< boucman> timotei: we are looking to replace svn with git, which implies replacing gna with something else
20120210 18:40:41< boucman> we might keep gna for the bugtracker in the short term, but we would have to switch eventually
20120210 18:40:51< boucman> so we are looking at how to do this and who could host us
20120210 18:41:21< Ivanovic> timotei: the initial step is "replace svn by 'something better' (most likely git)"
20120210 18:41:36< Ivanovic> later on we *might* want to move away from gna for bug tracking if we find a better solution
20120210 18:41:38< boucman> and something to host the git repo
20120210 18:41:43< timotei> But again, why is not github's bug tracker fine?
20120210 18:41:49< timotei> I think it's the most awesome
20120210 18:41:50< Ivanovic> boucman: we would not *have to*
20120210 18:42:05< Ivanovic> but it would be logical if we found a better one (or if gna completely stopped working)
20120210 18:42:05< boucman> Ivanovic: we would need an official repo somewhere...
20120210 18:42:22< boucman> even if the bugtracker stays at gna
20120210 18:42:44< boucman> timotei: git has a soft limitation of 300mo per project iiuc, so we can't easily go there
20120210 18:42:48< Ivanovic> that is: when i talked to the gna folks about git they said "we won't add git support, but you can keep the tracker, ml and stuff at our site and do git somewhere else"
20120210 18:43:02< timotei> boucman: Yes. I am sure we could talk with the github guys to override that :)
20120210 18:43:13< timotei> At least, they offer for example, the micro paid planning to students ;)
20120210 18:43:13< boucman> and their bugtracker is really good to follow commits through git, but as far as we could tell is limited wrt attaching info to bug, assigning bugs etc...
20120210 18:43:18< Ivanovic> timotei: before we switch the bugtracker somewhere else we'd need a plan for the migration
20120210 18:43:20< timotei> Ah, yeah that
20120210 18:43:29< Ivanovic> and first we would have to compare the tracker
20120210 18:43:38< timotei> That is true, regarding the feature-completeness of the bugtracker compared to gna
20120210 18:43:38< boucman> timotei: yes, we have to ask them, we havn't done so yet
20120210 18:43:57< Ivanovic> then we would have to find out if there is a way to import our existing bug database
20120210 18:44:04< Ivanovic> (import after some conversion)
20120210 18:44:45< timotei> The attaching of things to a issue is non-existent alas
20120210 18:44:49< timotei> an issue*
20120210 18:45:14< boucman> timotei: so, to sum it up, we plan to move to git, we need to consider the bugtrackers on the place we move, even if we don't move the bug database right away, and overall it's not that simple
20120210 18:45:29< timotei> Yeah, sure
20120210 18:45:32< boucman> attaching a file to an issue is not supported ???
20120210 18:45:33< boucman> wow
20120210 18:45:54< timotei> Nope :( Just writing stuff
20120210 18:46:13< timotei> They belive more in pull requests.
20120210 18:46:26< timotei> But attaching error logs and so, seems vital to me
20120210 18:46:37< Ivanovic> or replays
20120210 18:46:39< timotei> I don't think ppl would go to pastebin or so
20120210 18:46:39< timotei> Yeah
20120210 18:46:53< Ivanovic> replays are more an issue than logs, since logs can often be pasted
20120210 18:46:54< fendrin> I have created a test on github and I think that attachments to issues can be enabled.
20120210 18:46:56< timotei> so Github I guess is out for the bug tracking stuff
20120210 18:47:11< Ivanovic> timotei: no, we have to see for ourselves first
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20120210 18:47:24< Ivanovic> but let this wait a little longer, at least till i write some short fosdem summary
20120210 18:47:32< timotei> fendrin: you sure? I just looked on it now :)
20120210 18:47:37< timotei> Ivanovic: a, no hasting.
20120210 18:47:39< timotei> :)
20120210 18:47:48< timotei> I just "guessed" :P
20120210 18:48:17< boucman> fendrin: if you could have a github project where you "enabled everything" so we could play, that would be nice
20120210 18:48:20< vultraz> Wesnoth is moving to Git?
20120210 18:49:22< timotei> boucman: you need an account to "work" on the repository.
20120210 18:49:39< timotei> Even if "everything is enabled"
20120210 18:51:12< fendrin> boucman: Okay, I will do so.
20120210 18:51:17< boucman> no anonymous bug report ?
20120210 18:51:40 * boucman should really have a github account :P
20120210 18:52:50< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: ah thats why you asked about git+windows...
20120210 18:53:02< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: exactly
20120210 18:53:34< anonymissimus> well no objections for that aspect...but I'm afraid that git is too much for most of the art people and such
20120210 18:54:16< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: you mean those art people that don't commit themselves anyway?
20120210 18:54:21< Gambit> That's a non-issue, yeah ^
20120210 18:54:41< anonymissimus> and consider that we also have many people who compile from trunk from svn just to develop their campaigns or to play, and the feedback/bug reports of these people is very valuable
20120210 18:54:47< Gambit> http://help.github.com/win-set-up-git/
20120210 18:54:50< boucman> anonymissimus: jetrel already uses git for frogate, that leavs TSI, who else ?
20120210 18:54:54< Gambit> Github has excellent setup guides
20120210 18:55:20< timotei> anonymissimus: once you have a git repository, it's the same as checking out a SVN repo :)
20120210 18:55:26< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: yes, but in those regards it does not make too much difference if it is svn or git
20120210 18:55:27< boucman> anonymissimus: if you just want to follow trunk, git is as complicated as svn
20120210 18:55:28< timotei> All this current problems arise from git-svn bridge
20120210 18:55:35< Ivanovic> we just provide 1:1 steps and it should be a non issue
20120210 18:55:49< Ivanovic> (in fact we already have details like this for our git-svn tree!)
20120210 18:56:18< Ivanovic> yes, real *users* of GIT have to learn more
20120210 18:56:28< Ivanovic> but those are the main "hardcore" devs
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20120210 18:59:21< anonymissimus> hm you should also ask the Mac devs
20120210 18:59:32< anonymissimus> ala is using svn afaik
20120210 19:01:17< Gambit> Github made a really nice graphical program for mac users
20120210 19:01:24< Gambit> http://mac.github.com/
20120210 19:01:39< Ivanovic> cool, wesnoth will be "featured" next week on sf.net
20120210 19:01:40< Gambit> It will be easiest of all for them
20120210 19:01:45< Ivanovic> (meaning: listed directly on the frontpage)
20120210 19:02:06< Ivanovic> okay, i am afk for a while now, watching some movies with friends
20120210 19:02:08< Ivanovic> cu
20120210 19:02:49< boucman> Ivanovic: how come ?
20120210 19:03:04< Ivanovic> "Your project was chosen because it was in the top 50 projects for the last few weeks, and hasn't been featured recently. Hopefully this will drive a little more traffic your way, and introduce a few new people to your project."
20120210 19:03:08< Ivanovic> (from the mail about this)
20120210 19:03:16< boucman> yay :)
20120210 19:03:21< Ivanovic> might be every devs gets it or every admin for the projects or...
20120210 19:03:41< Ivanovic> nice fit with the 1.10 release, right?
20120210 19:06:41< anonymissimus> btw I suggest that the default setting for eols should be LF then, rather "native" if there's such property or whatever
20120210 19:07:36< anonymissimus> the native eols make problems if one uses win+Linux to access the same local repository (obviously)
20120210 19:08:29< anonymissimus> timotei: what's your further experience on eols ?
20120210 19:10:01< anonymissimus> since I follow what I wrote into the wiki "My current opinion about what makes the least trouble with respect to line endings is to set [core]autocrlf = false, [core]eol = lf, [core]savecrlf = true and to commit out (#) line 58-60 in your_wesnoth_source_tree_root/.git/hooks/pre-commit to allow submitting of patches with CRLF line endings into the remote repository. This should ideally only...
20120210 19:10:02< anonymissimus> ...be used for MSVC project files though. And you should use/set up editors in such way that they read and write only LF line endings, since the above check is to ensure that only LF line endings can be submitted into the remote repository..." I no longer have probs
20120210 19:15:08< shadowm> So, will anyone actually address or dismiss my concerns regarding git?
20120210 19:15:10< Ivanovic> boucman: ah, okay, it was just someone rather fast in #gsoc
20120210 19:15:22< Ivanovic> the submission of applications starts on february 27th
20120210 19:15:52< boucman> shadowm: could you repeat it please ? I might have missed it
20120210 19:15:59< boucman> Ivanovic: thx, that's pretty close
20120210 19:16:12< Ivanovic> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2012
20120210 19:16:25< Ivanovic> the application has to be done by 9th march
20120210 19:16:40< Ivanovic> and yeah, i can't promise anything in this time frame since my new job starts on march 1st
20120210 19:19:19< shadowm> boucman: https://pastebin.com/wsP4T2CZ
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20120210 19:25:00< anonymissimus> shadowm: agreed on the cloning problem...
20120210 19:26:46< boucman> shadowm: agreed on the problem, i'm not sure what we can do about it, you are mainly worried about new devs taking too long to checkout ?
20120210 19:27:09< shadowm> taking too long or being outright impossible 
20120210 19:28:01< Gambit> Can't pause and resume git clone either AFAIK
20120210 19:28:27< shadowm> 22:53:17 <shadowm> more generally, it's annoying that git doesn't have a way to resume a clone operation
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20120210 19:28:57< shadowm> as I said, back in the day I'd not have been able to download more than 0.5 GiB without the ability to e.g. use wget -c to resume the download; judging by a git-svn repository size, Wesnoth's git repository would be above 1.5 GiB
20120210 19:29:45< shadowm> I'm not sure whether the same restriction applies to svn checkout, but at least you don't have to download the whole history with it, and only the HEAD snapshot used to generate the BASE snapshhot as I said
20120210 19:29:53< timotei> really, what's 2 GB? :P
20120210 19:30:01< boucman> shadowm: there is a workaround...
20120210 19:30:22< shadowm> timotei: not all of us live near civilization
20120210 19:30:22< timotei> most of the people have broadband connections nowadays
20120210 19:30:22< boucman> I take my clone, I zip it, upload it, you download with ftp or another protocal
20120210 19:30:28< Espreon> timotei: ... Not really.
20120210 19:30:31< boucman> then you git pull to get it up to date
20120210 19:30:32< Gambit> timotei: no. no. no.
20120210 19:30:36< Espreon> There are still a lot of people using dial-up.
20120210 19:30:38< timotei> woah woah
20120210 19:30:51< timotei> dial-up? really?
20120210 19:30:52< timotei> in 2012?
20120210 19:30:56< Espreon> Yup.
20120210 19:31:03< timotei> In US probably..
20120210 19:31:04< timotei> :P
20120210 19:31:13< Espreon> Not every country is X European Happy Sunshineland.
20120210 19:31:24< Espreon> Well yeah, the US is a big country.
20120210 19:31:31< Gambit> er. People using dial-up can't even get Wesnoth in a reasonable amount of time
20120210 19:31:32< Espreon> If you live in a rural area, you're fucked.
20120210 19:31:35< Gambit> We don't have to worry about them.
20120210 19:31:53< Gambit> But is still slow dsl
20120210 19:31:56< shadowm> boucman: that's more or less how people use git-svn atm since cloning the SVN repository from gna.org would take too long for more reasons than just transfer rates
20120210 19:32:06< timotei> Really, I doubt anyone with dial-up works on ... open-source projects..
20120210 19:32:10< timotei> Or whatever computer projects...
20120210 19:32:17< shadowm> except the tarball has to be currently stored in a "private" (i.e. not indexed by web crawlers) directory
20120210 19:32:19< Espreon> Prove it.®
20120210 19:32:49< boucman> shadowm: well, it's a work around...
20120210 19:32:50< shadowm> timotei: They do.
20120210 19:33:01< Gambit> shadowm: github allows us to upload files to be downloaded
20120210 19:33:01< boucman> shallow copies would work for non-dev, since they can't push anyway
20120210 19:33:19< shadowm> timotei: even *before* broadband for domestic clients existed
20120210 19:33:37< boucman> iiuc you can pull from (not to) a shallow copy, and generate patch from it,
20120210 19:33:49< Espreon> Gambit: Yeah, but they only allow so much before you have to pay.
20120210 19:33:52< boucman> it would be problematic for core devs, but core devs could use the workaround...
20120210 19:33:53< timotei> shadowm: yeah, but back then the projects weren't so big
20120210 19:34:00< timotei> Just image a po-update for a dial-up user
20120210 19:34:03< timotei> =))
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20120210 19:34:17< shadowm> timotei: depends on what projects you are talking about
20120210 19:34:33< shadowm> also, I was once on a WLAN connection with worse transfer rates than dial-up
20120210 19:34:39< timotei> I was just talking about the most of the people.
20120210 19:34:41< shadowm> for years
20120210 19:34:47< timotei> There will always be people in that situations...
20120210 19:35:09< shadowm> and I was contributing to Wesnoth despite the incredibly long fetch times for pot-update commits
20120210 19:35:13< timotei> Hmm, so it's just me that considers 2GB a no-threat?
20120210 19:35:19< Gambit> Yes
20120210 19:35:25< boucman> shadowm: well, I agree it's a problem, but i really don't see what else we can do except not going to git...
20120210 19:35:26< timotei> Ok, Then i'll shut up :P
20120210 19:35:45< timotei> But yeah, putting somewhere
20120210 19:35:55< timotei> a clone for people to get with wget -c... would be fine alternative
20120210 19:36:03< timotei> For those with sloopy internet connections :)
20120210 19:36:08< Gambit> A 2gb download is an incredibly tall barrier to entry. I forgot all about this problem when touting github earlier.
20120210 19:36:09< boucman> i'd consider it a problem but not a showstopper...
20120210 19:36:50< shadowm> now, I know frogatto was about 500 MiB when they joined github with a free plan (and thus went over the soft limit)
20120210 19:37:07< shadowm> I wonder if a > 1.5 GiB repository would work with a free plan
20120210 19:37:15< timotei> shadowm: we can talk with the admins.
20120210 19:37:16< timotei> :)
20120210 19:37:24< timotei> I'm sure about it, and I don't think they'll refuse
20120210 19:37:32< timotei> Like I said, they offer the paid micro plan for students for free.
20120210 19:37:36< timotei> I for one have that :)
20120210 19:37:42< timotei> 5 private repos = love
20120210 19:37:45< boucman> github is not the only git provider either...
20120210 19:37:59< shadowm> github seems to be the most popular, though
20120210 19:38:02< timotei> shadowm: we were taking about the inabillity to attach things to issues
20120210 19:38:06< timotei> which is a "showstopper"
20120210 19:38:10< timotei> talking*
20120210 19:38:19< shadowm> timotei: post attachments, right?
20120210 19:38:22< Gambit> It's a soft limit. All you have to do is email them and prove you're a legitimate project and not say... abusing github to host illegal porn.
20120210 19:38:23< timotei> Yeah
20120210 19:38:55< timotei> IDK about gitorious anyway
20120210 19:38:59< timotei> They host KDE iirc?
20120210 19:39:07< shadowm> KDE is self-hosted nowadays
20120210 19:39:07< timotei> And QT?
20120210 19:39:12< shadowm> no idea about Qt
20120210 19:39:30< timotei> Ok
20120210 19:39:33< timotei> It was openSUSE: gitorious.org/opensuse
20120210 19:39:33< shadowm> Gitorious doesn't support any sort of commit hooks, including CIA
20120210 19:39:35< timotei> not KED
20120210 19:39:46< Gambit> Is it possible to find out the biggest space-consuming parts of the history and... erase them?
20120210 19:39:49< timotei> And yeah, QT is on gitorious
20120210 19:39:54< boucman> sf also hosts git
20120210 19:40:06< shadowm> Gambit: no, history in Wesnoth is more useful than you imagine
20120210 19:40:19< Gambit> But how much of that 1.5gb is history of music files?
20120210 19:40:26< Gambit> Or art?
20120210 19:40:33< Gambit> Which we [should] never need?
20120210 19:40:33< fendrin> But we can maybe talk about splitting the engine from the content.
20120210 19:40:35< timotei> shadowm: but we could erase *that* commit of eleazar's :P
20120210 19:40:35< boucman> how big is a svn checkout vs a git checkout anyway ?
20120210 19:40:38< shadowm> art or music files history is *not* useless
20120210 19:40:54< Gambit> Going forward maybe.
20120210 19:41:03< Gambit> But we just released 1.10. All those assets should be golden.
20120210 19:41:18< Gambit> Do we really need a decade of history of obsolete art and music versions?
20120210 19:41:27< timotei> Yes
20120210 19:41:44< timotei> :P
20120210 19:42:10< shadowm> Gambit: you don't need it, but at least I need it
20120210 19:42:19< Gambit> Why are is leaving SVN on the table again anyway? I wasn't hear for that part.
20120210 19:42:25< Gambit> s/are//
20120210 19:42:41< shadowm> boucman: I don't know, but as my paste shows at one point, I have only been considering network transfer size. On-disk size may vary wildly because of the checked out files, so I only consider .svn and .git directories
20120210 19:42:44< Gambit> s/hear/here/ rawr
20120210 19:43:05< boucman> shadowm: good point
20120210 19:43:28< shadowm> and built object, archive and executable files can make it worse
20120210 19:43:41< boucman> Gambit: it makes branching and merging way easier, it makes patches keeps track of who submitted them
20120210 19:43:45< shadowm> for example, my Wesnoth git-svn tree is 5.5 GiB with everything
20120210 19:44:10< shadowm> 1.7 GiB are build/debug
20120210 19:44:26< anonymissimus> regarding the history: I definitely need it as well
20120210 19:45:12< anonymissimus> Gambit, you aren't working on hard to track down C++ bug's
20120210 19:45:19< timotei> boucman: does sf.net have some bug tracker?
20120210 19:45:25< Gambit> I was asking about excising specific parts of the history anonymissimus.
20120210 19:45:29< boucman> timotei: multiple, apparently :P
20120210 19:45:35< timotei> Ah, cool
20120210 19:45:38< boucman> trac is one of them, I don't know about the others
20120210 19:45:42< timotei> Well, we use sf.net for downloads anyway
20120210 19:45:46< timotei> Trac is nice xD
20120210 19:46:04< Gambit> anonymissimus: Specifically art and music which is always objectively better
20120210 19:46:12< Gambit> Do you need every version of every song all the way back to 0.1?
20120210 19:46:22< Gambit> That's what I was questioning.
20120210 19:46:31< timotei> Gambit: ok, go on an calculate how much the music history counts xD
20120210 19:46:39< timotei> I'm really curious
20120210 19:46:41< shadowm> Gambit: I said in an article that CVS history didn't start that long ago
20120210 19:47:20< shadowm> about 0.4 (which is just a few months after 0.1, admittedly,)
20120210 19:48:25< fendrin> Does that f.5 GiB Wesnoth glob include all the versions of the ogg files down to 0.4?
20120210 19:48:41< fendrin> s/f.5/5.5
20120210 19:49:09< shadowm> read the paste again. The actual git-svn directory isn't that large
20120210 19:49:17< timotei> So, https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Hosted%20Apps
20120210 19:50:00< timotei> we have mantis bug tracker too
20120210 19:50:32< timotei> But trac is nicer
20120210 19:50:43< boucman> shadowm: so, assuming patch contributors can shallow clone, and that we have a git repo in a private directory, would you be fine with that ?
20120210 19:51:23< timotei> I think so far sf.net matches most of our needs
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20120210 19:51:48< shadowm> yes; I'll certainly need the latter to complete the transition myself right now
20120210 19:52:07< boucman> ok
20120210 19:52:21< fendrin> boucman: I would love to see the content and the engine be two repositories.
20120210 19:52:40< timotei> fendrin: it would be fine, but I guess it would be too much fragmentation?
20120210 19:52:46< boucman> well, they could be, with a third that would contain only those two as submodules...
20120210 19:53:04< shadowm> I prefer the current scheme, since code and content are still very dependent on each other
20120210 19:53:20< boucman> the thing is you need the two to work, it would only alllow you to pull only one, but pulls are cheap
20120210 19:53:24< boucman> so I don't really see the point
20120210 19:53:41< shadowm> in particular, WML/Lua and C++ code , but also imges and C++, or images and WML/Lua
20120210 19:53:42< boucman> and what shadowm sait too :P
20120210 19:54:18< timotei> Ha, Ivanovic: http://savannah.gnu.org/maintenance/DataExport
20120210 19:54:20< fendrin> Okay, It seems that git solves that problem magically.
20120210 19:54:20< timotei> xD
20120210 19:54:39< timotei> It seems exporting the bugs and all that stuff is simple. Importing would be a bit questionalbe
20120210 19:54:43< timotei> questionable*
20120210 19:56:41< timotei> Also, there is assembla which is cool
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20120210 19:58:41< mordante> servus
20120210 19:58:47< timotei> hi mordante 
20120210 19:59:03< mordante> hi timotei 
20120210 19:59:07-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-6-36-251.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120210 19:59:21< mordante> see gna now expects the 11th to be online again...
20120210 19:59:45< Ivanovic> mordante: could you add your notes to the wiki?
20120210 19:59:55< Ivanovic> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2012#Discussions_and_Results
20120210 20:00:06< mordante> Ivanovic, yeah I could I prepared an email...
20120210 20:00:49< mordante> needs some more love, will probably do it tomorrow
20120210 20:02:05< mordante> maybe now we have to move to git...
20120210 20:02:22< timotei> Hmm, assembla offers free stuff for open-source projects.
20120210 20:03:22< timotei> Just need to check the space limit (if any)
20120210 20:04:15< timotei> Ah, 2GB
20120210 20:04:41< timotei> Ok, and if we need more space we need to pay. I guess assembla is out then xD
20120210 20:18:24-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120210 20:27:55< mordante> I'm off again, bye
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20120210 20:51:07< anonymissimus> timotei: whym you can't check the code of some version ?
20120210 20:51:28< anonymissimus> you have a complete local git history don't you
20120210 20:51:46< timotei> anonymissimus: yeah, But I need to check the website update :O
20120210 20:51:47< timotei> :P
20120210 20:51:56< timotei> And correlate it with the trunk version
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20120210 21:21:32< shadowm> timotei: ... ever heard of tags?
20120210 21:22:32< timotei> shadowm: yeah, didn't use them so far. Probably will do ... sometimes :P
20120210 21:22:43< shadowm> that is, your excuse above doesn't make sense
20120210 21:23:03< timotei> Yes it does perfectly
20120210 21:23:08< shadowm> not really
20120210 21:23:08< timotei> Given the current situation
20120210 21:23:15< shadowm> you have a git-svn tree
20120210 21:23:18< shadowm> you can check the logs
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20120210 21:23:49< timotei> Yeah, just on trunk, not on website. And I don't want to trim logs messages for when I did release 1.3 anyway
20120210 21:23:50< shadowm> you can even checkout a particular revision in detached mode if necessary
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20120210 21:25:17< timotei> Ah.
20120210 21:25:27< timotei> Well, it seems a simple grep made me find it :P
20120210 21:25:30< timotei> shadowm: happy now?
20120210 21:28:05< shadowm> not sure, considering most commits seem to be formatting/EOL format changes (i.e. garbage)
20120210 21:28:36< timotei>  /:)
20120210 21:28:56< shadowm> certainly not a reason to be smiling
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20120210 21:29:08< timotei> It's not smiling. It's frowning 
20120210 21:29:15< timotei> Are you looking at the right commits by chance?
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20120210 21:29:36< timotei> Probably not.
20120210 21:29:40< shadowm> no idea, nor I'm interested in checking
20120210 21:29:54< timotei> I don't even know at what commits are you looking
20120210 21:30:14< shadowm> r52625, for example
20120210 21:30:54< timotei> Well, you're missing the essence
20120210 21:31:12< shadowm> the essence is rewriting entire files adding CRs? ok
20120210 21:31:32< timotei> No. It's the WML.xtext
20120210 21:31:48< timotei> And if espreon keeps changing back the EOLs... then I don't have what to do
20120210 21:32:26< shadowm> your product isn't only for WIndows users, so the CRs are unnecessary in the first place
20120210 21:33:07< shadowm> you might want to consider changing your editor settings to either use Unix EOLs or not convert files when editing
20120210 21:33:11< timotei> And because the EOL is getting changed back to CR doesn't mean that's the single thing.
20120210 21:33:21< timotei> shadowm: and my product is neither just for Linux, ok?
20120210 21:33:28< timotei> so get used with it.
20120210 21:33:54< anonymissimus> timotei: does eclipse have probs with LF somehow ?
20120210 21:34:02< timotei> anonymissimus: no, shadowm has problems with CRs
20120210 21:34:10< timotei> shadowm: those files are generated with a tool.
20120210 21:34:20< anonymissimus> like changing it to CRLF in project files when writing in case we're on win ?
20120210 21:34:21< timotei> The file I edited, is in LF format, and it's called WML.xtext
20120210 21:34:33< timotei> anonymissimus: no, it doesn't have any problems.
20120210 21:35:35< anonymissimus> or some of your other tools ? other than that I would use LF only
20120210 21:35:41< timotei> it's just that xtext is generating stuff with the current OS's eol...
20120210 21:35:50< anonymissimus> and thats very bad
20120210 21:35:58< timotei> why it's bad?
20120210 21:36:22< anonymissimus> for instance, because one does it under varying OSes
20120210 21:36:23< timotei> and I don't know any way of enforcing that.
20120210 21:36:37< shadowm> I think the files just need to have svn:eol-style=native set on them
20120210 21:36:44< shadowm> I think the files just need to have svn:eol-style=native set on them
20120210 21:36:46< shadowm> er.
20120210 21:36:51< timotei> they're set, but remember? git doesn't take account on that IIRC
20120210 21:37:15< timotei> and I didn't create a simple (runnable) script that converts to LF everything...
20120210 21:37:23< timotei> so I could run it before commiting
20120210 21:37:25< anonymissimus> eol style native doesn't make sense if OS vary
20120210 21:37:52< anonymissimus> (and repo does not)
20120210 21:41:45< timotei> and apparently d2unix converts the images EOL aswell
20120210 21:42:45< shadowm> images are not plain text nor should dos2unix be run on them
20120210 21:44:37< timotei> Yeah I know. But I thought dos2unix would have been smarter than that
20120210 21:44:56< timotei> I just run it recursively and it broke my project.. great.
20120210 21:45:30< shadowm> "Binary files are automatically skipped, unless conversion is forced."
20120210 21:46:11< timotei> Does this look like force to you?
20120210 21:46:11< timotei> find . -type f -exec dos2unix {} {} \;
20120210 21:46:15< timotei> I'd say no
20120210 21:46:43< timotei> But fine, I'll use -name *.java as a proper filter
20120210 21:52:31< timotei> Ok, done. I'll use this before commiting.
20120210 21:52:40< anonymissimus> hm when opening files in scripts don't forget the "b"...
20120210 21:52:45< timotei> ?
20120210 21:52:50< anonymissimus> when running them on windows
20120210 21:52:53< timotei> b??
20120210 21:54:02< anonymissimus> timotei: look at r52590
20120210 21:54:38< timotei> Hmm.. b comes from binary IIRC
20120210 21:54:40< anonymissimus> on Linux, file opening is automatically made in "binary" mode or something; while on windows that's not the case
20120210 21:54:58< timotei> Hmm, I think that's irrelevant to the type of Eol... But anyway
20120210 21:55:03< timotei> I don't do any file openings :P
20120210 21:55:07< anonymissimus> this regularly breaks all sorts of scripts which are written on Linux and never tested on won
20120210 21:55:29< anonymissimus> I dunno whether it's relevant for you right now, but always a good trial
20120210 21:55:45< shadowm> on POSIX systems there's just no difference between regular and binary file fopen
20120210 21:55:54< anonymissimus> yep
20120210 21:56:25< anonymissimus> so it may be that the version of dos2unix you're using doesn't care for this
20120210 21:57:10< timotei> Hmm... it seems dos2unix chokes on {} {}
20120210 21:57:13< timotei> It should be {}
20120210 21:57:14< timotei> :P
20120210 21:59:27< timotei> Lol
20120210 21:59:52< timotei> It converted to Windows instead of unix...
20120210 21:59:55< timotei> >.>
20120210 22:01:12< timotei> Ah.
20120210 22:01:20< timotei> It flips the EOL automatically it seems
20120210 22:01:27< timotei> dos2unix -b -U <file> worked :D
20120210 22:01:58< anonymissimus> timotei: alternatively, run it from Linux
20120210 22:02:02< timotei> no.
20120210 22:02:10< timotei> I mean, it would do the same thing :P
20120210 22:02:22< timotei> I can use very good cygwin and my unixified Windows:)
20120210 22:02:52< timotei> Now, to create an alias
20120210 22:02:54< timotei> anonymissimus:  find . -type f -exec dos2unix -b -U {} \;
20120210 22:02:59< timotei> This is my converter thingy :D
20120210 22:03:26< anonymissimus> those cmd lines are like chinese for me
20120210 22:03:33< anonymissimus> (unsimplified)
20120210 22:03:35< timotei> xD
20120210 22:04:14< timotei> find . (in current dir) -type f (files) -exec (execute the following command ) dos2unix -b(no binary files) -U(just dos -> unix) {} (current found file with the find command) \; (end of command)
20120210 22:04:15< timotei> :P
20120210 22:04:22< timotei> shadowm might correct me if I'm wrong
20120210 22:04:49< Espreon> anonymissimus: Traditional's the best.
20120210 22:05:00< shadowm> I don't like find
20120210 22:05:08< timotei> But what? xargs?
20120210 22:05:16< fendrin> zookeeper: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=520178#p520178
20120210 22:05:22< timotei> I've used xargs, and at least in cygwin spawns like 200+ processes
20120210 22:05:24< timotei> I had to reboot :P
20120210 22:05:41< fendrin> Can that extra package already be implemented as an addon?
20120210 22:06:29< shadowm> fendrin: not quite. There's no way to void existing builder rules from what I remember.
20120210 22:06:39< shadowm> furthermore, rules for add-ons are prepended to mainline rules
20120210 22:07:09< fendrin> so this would require a conversion?
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20120210 22:07:37< shadowm> depends on what that's supposed to mean
20120210 22:08:12< timotei> WO
20120210 22:08:12< timotei> W
20120210 22:08:14< fendrin> good question
20120210 22:08:19< timotei> with xargs works MUCH faster :P
20120210 22:08:40< fendrin> I am not exactly sure myself how the concept can be implemented.
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20120210 22:08:52< timotei> anonymissimus:  find . -type f -print0 | xargs -0 dos2unix -b -U
20120210 22:08:57< timotei> shadowm: ^ is that better? :P
20120210 22:09:10< shadowm> I don't know
20120210 22:09:25< timotei> Well, you said you don't like find. What else then?
20120210 22:09:55< shadowm> I stated my personal opinion, which in no way is intended to influence your decisions.
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20120210 22:10:18< fendrin> shadowm: Sorry, I may have missed that.
20120210 22:10:24< timotei> I've already did a find version. I'm curious to know other alternatives :P
20120210 22:10:32< timotei> Yeah, too much :P
20120210 22:10:43< shadowm> fendrin: that was for timotei
20120210 22:10:49< fendrin> I see.
20120210 22:11:12< timotei> Ah... d2u insists on converting the bmps..
20120210 22:11:16< shadowm> timotei: I don't know about "alternatives" nor do I care much.
20120210 22:11:18< timotei> And pngs
20120210 22:11:32< shadowm> Whenever I need to do a mass operation, I have to spend a while re-reading the find man-page and performing test runs.
20120210 22:12:10< shadowm> The one time I didn't, I had to subsequently spend hours filtering useful data from an unused disk blocks dump
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20120210 22:14:13< zookeeper> fendrin, what shadowm said. and even if one could do it, it sounds like a big waste of time to me.
20120210 22:14:18< anonymissimus> that thread is a serious sign for artists and players diverging from each other
20120210 22:14:20< zookeeper> old drakes? yeah... no thanks.
20120210 22:15:04< shadowm> timotei: tl;dr version: I don't like find, and I'd rather not have anything to do with other people's find command lines
20120210 22:15:21< zookeeper> anonymissimus, how?
20120210 22:15:51< timotei> shadowm: how can you "don't like" something, when you don't know about "alternatives" ?
20120210 22:16:04< anonymissimus> well, the "compettive mp" people want things to be different than the artists
20120210 22:16:29< shadowm> timotei: I only use find when I can't get away with a manual method
20120210 22:16:33< anonymissimus> and they don't talk with each other enough (and the situation is both side's fault)
20120210 22:16:42< timotei> I see
20120210 22:17:30< anonymissimus> if it was for me personally, then the water animations were really not necessary
20120210 22:17:56< anonymissimus> afaik they were the reason for the crusty coats which we have now
20120210 22:18:04< anonymissimus> coasts
20120210 22:18:54< zookeeper> anonymissimus, i see no more than 1-2 other people in that thread supporting the idea
20120210 22:19:42< timotei> Ok. So the script works fine. Hopefully I won't forget to run it before commiting stuff
20120210 22:20:12< timotei> Hmm, visual studio 2010 and eclipse doesn't get togheter...
20120210 22:20:23< timotei> together*
20120210 22:20:29< timotei> don't*
20120210 22:22:03< fendrin> zookeeper: The new drakes are miles better. No question. I am just in search for a testcase to implement the c++ support for mods/conversions.
20120210 22:22:15< fendrin> zookeeper: Do you know a better testcase?
20120210 22:23:20< zookeeper> well, copy the mainline data and make a superficial change or two, and you have a testcase?
20120210 22:24:31< fendrin> I think I can realize mods by changing the "search path" of the include mechanism.
20120210 22:25:03< fendrin> If a mod provides a certain directory of file the include will source from the mod and not out of mainline.
20120210 22:25:18< fendrin> s/of/or
20120210 22:25:33< zookeeper> okay, well, then you just need to copy a file or two...
20120210 22:25:42< fendrin> Right.
20120210 22:26:13< fendrin> But his terrain stuff is a more complex example and seems to work exactly how I need it.
20120210 22:29:11< fendrin> I like the addon downloader to store mods in data/mods instead of data/addons
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20120210 22:35:07< zookeeper> why?
20120210 22:37:47< fendrin> hmmm
20120210 22:38:02< fendrin> Because they are somehow different.
20120210 22:38:04< zookeeper> they're still add-ons, so add-ons sounds like a very logical place :p
20120210 22:38:08< fendrin> They work different.
20120210 22:38:20< zookeeper> do they, really?
20120210 22:38:26< shadowm> eras and campaigns work differently
20120210 22:38:44< shadowm> guess what, both are under add-ons (and formerly under campaigns, heaven forbid!)
20120210 22:39:51< zookeeper> presumably a mod add-on would provide a _main.cfg as usual, containing top-level tags with which the game does what it does
20120210 22:40:00< zookeeper> so pretty much the same as every other add-on
20120210 22:41:38< fendrin> no
20120210 22:41:54< fendrin> it's more different
20120210 22:43:14< zookeeper> well, i'm presuming that you're going with something similar to my suggestion in the FR, and if so, then i don't think it's really that different than other add-ons
20120210 22:44:27< zookeeper> the only difference IMO being that you could launch the mod directly by pointing the game to its data dir via a command-line flag, instead of launching it from within the game
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20120210 22:44:42< zookeeper> ...and in that sense it wouldn't be an add-on
20120210 22:45:09< fendrin> Your proposal was about conversions. I am talking about mods.
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20120210 22:45:40< fendrin> If you call a conversion a new core, a mod is core specific.
20120210 22:45:52< zookeeper> right, okay
20120210 22:46:15< fendrin> After the mod thing is working, I will see about several cores.
20120210 22:46:46< zookeeper> well... in that case i think mods should be considered add-ons even more so that conversions :P
20120210 22:46:52< zookeeper> s/that/than
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20120210 22:57:32< fendrin> Well, at least I need a subdirectory for them.
20120210 22:59:07< fendrin> hmmm
20120210 22:59:14< fendrin> I will see.
20120210 23:01:32< anonymissimus> fendrin: what about the --data-dir switch ?
20120210 23:02:03< anonymissimus> a mod could copy the stuff it doesn't want to modify and modify the rest
20120210 23:02:42< anonymissimus> such as gui/
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20120210 23:04:13< anonymissimus> or a --core switch ?
20120210 23:05:12< anonymissimus> data/ already contains some stuff an addon might want to modify however
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20120210 23:45:57< fendrin> anonymissimus: The --data-dir switch can be used to switch between several cores. But I do not know how it could work for mods. And downloaded cores.
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 11 00:00:26 2012