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20120211 08:36:38< mordante> servus
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20120211 09:51:55< timotei21> Hmm, gna is still down???
20120211 09:52:14< timotei21> It's already 11 Feb
20120211 09:55:52< boucman> how long has it been down ?
20120211 09:57:31< mordante> not sure but several days
20120211 09:57:40< mordante> they planned to be online again yesterday
20120211 09:57:50< boucman> ouch
20120211 09:57:52< mordante> timotei21, it's still early in the morning in France
20120211 09:59:25< mordante> indeed ouch, maybe we really should consider another place to host Wesnoth
20120211 09:59:44< timotei21> Lucky us who have a git working copy, and can work on wesnoth.
20120211 10:00:14< timotei21> Well, we could start talking on the ML after Ivanovic will post a lil summary about FOSDEM
20120211 10:00:18< vultraz> or an svn checkout?
20120211 10:00:39< timotei21> vultraz: well... no. Because you can't commit stuff
20120211 10:00:44< boucman> vultraz: better to start from git, it has the history, but at this point let's just wait for gna to get back online
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20120211 10:00:54< mordante> timotei21, we can't post to the ML
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20120211 10:01:10< timotei21> mordante: Ah yeah :(
20120211 10:01:11< timotei21> Forgot it
20120211 10:01:17< mordante> timotei21, I'll post a summary later today, either to the ML or to the wiki
20120211 10:01:33 * mordante hopes the ml will be up this afternoon
20120211 10:02:19< mordante> boucman, agreed, however it hasn't been the first time they went down
20120211 10:02:32< boucman> no, indeed
20120211 10:02:49< mordante> I have the feeling their uptime is getting lower (might be perception as well)
20120211 10:03:33< boucman> yeah, 
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20120211 10:05:38< timotei21> So... today there are protests against ACTA in the whole Europe?
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20120211 10:06:30< mordante> no idea
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20120211 10:11:12< Ivanovic> moin
20120211 10:11:42< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20120211 10:20:28< vultraz> hey
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20120211 10:48:25< Ivanovic> at least the date at gna.org still mentioned today
20120211 10:48:45< Ivanovic> since on thursday they talked about friday, on friday they talked about today
20120211 10:49:15< timotei21> What if they don't get back at all?
20120211 10:49:54< Ivanovic> then we'll have a little more "fun"
20120211 10:50:06< loonycyborg> Then we'll have to restore everything from our git-svn repos :P
20120211 10:50:09< Ivanovic> though we do have some devs with (recent) git-svn checkouts which gives us some history
20120211 10:50:29< Ivanovic> there are things which can't be restored though like eg the bugtracker
20120211 10:50:41< Ivanovic> and for the git repos i am not sure if we got all data from all branches
20120211 10:56:06< mordante> no idea, but I think all branches were downloaded by git-svn
20120211 11:00:48< Ivanovic> what about website/ ?
20120211 11:04:32< mordante> is website the exact name?
20120211 11:05:11< timotei21> Ivanovic: I don't think there's anyonw with a git-svn checkout for the website/
20120211 11:05:14< timotei21> Probably only shadowm
20120211 11:05:58< mordante> it seems it's not there, but the other branches are for example xan's branch
20120211 11:07:58< mordante> here's a list of remote branches my git knows about http://paste.debian.net/155891/
20120211 11:09:16< loonycyborg> Probably git-svn didn't snapshot anything other than trunk/ tags/ or branches/
20120211 11:09:26< loonycyborg> s/or/and
20120211 11:09:53< mordante> probably
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20120211 11:12:12< timotei21> mordante: how did you get that? git branch shows me just about 5-6 branches
20120211 11:12:26< loonycyborg> git svn fetch
20120211 11:12:27< mordante> timotei21,  git branch -r
20120211 11:12:32< timotei21> If I git branch -a it shows much more but with remotes/ prefixed
20120211 11:13:01< timotei21> Ah. Ok
20120211 11:15:37< loonycyborg> Actually I'm not sure how did you get rid of /remotes :P
20120211 11:16:10< timotei21> loonycyborg: the -r doesn't prefix with remotes/ it seems. While -a does
20120211 11:16:30< loonycyborg> Ah. Yes.
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20120211 17:29:13< anonymissimus> well at least we would have gotten rid of all the bugs and feature requests ;)
20120211 17:29:50< anonymissimus> last remote commit I have is r52996
20120211 17:30:44< anonymissimus> for 1.10 branch 52992; all the other should be up to date
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20120211 17:31:57< anonymissimus> and I have the same as mordante it seems, no website (where is that anyway ?)
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20120211 17:43:22< mordante> anonymissimus, a website branch, which isn't configured for git
20120211 17:43:48< mordante> it's a separate top-level item next to tags, branches and trunk
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20120211 17:53:17< fendrin> where can I find the git tarballs?
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20120211 18:15:34< timotei21> fendrin: I've PMed you the address
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20120211 18:17:54< fendrin> timotei21: thanks
20120211 18:17:58< timotei21> fendrin: yw
20120211 18:18:35< timotei21> I'm just wondering, I'm the single stranger that has been subscribed to the commits ML?
20120211 18:19:29< timotei21> anonymissimus: hmm, how do you know the revision? Git shows just the commit's SHA ID
20120211 18:23:25< boucman> timotei21: what do you mean by stranger ?
20120211 18:23:57< timotei21> boucman: well, most of the colleagues of me, consider me a freak subscribing to each project I work on, to the commits mailing lists :P
20120211 18:24:09< timotei21> note that: work on (currently)
20120211 18:24:23< timotei21> I was wondering if here's the case
20120211 18:25:35< boucman> my colleagues don't really know what open source at all
20120211 18:25:51< boucman> they know i do a video game in my free time, and don't ask any questions
20120211 18:26:03< timotei21> xD
20120211 18:26:15< boucman> which is a bit sad since it's a software prevalent company :(
20120211 18:26:50< timotei21> Yeah. Most of the people in software development companies don't bother to do any extra stuff 
20120211 18:27:10< timotei21> Besides what they do at work
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20120211 18:32:20< anonymissimus> timotei21: well, gitg shows me something like this update helper.lua to use wesnoth.wml_actions instead of wesnoth.fire (patch #3040 by SigurdFireDragon, slightly modified)
20120211 18:32:22< anonymissimus> git-svn-id: svn+ssh://svn.gna.org/svn/wesnoth/trunk@52996 75b3775d-3801-0410-9e12-e2e43121521d
20120211 18:32:35< timotei21> Ah
20120211 18:32:35< anonymissimus> notice the @... ?
20120211 18:32:40< anonymissimus> thats the revision
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20120211 18:35:40< timotei21> Yeah
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20120211 18:40:58< timotei21> Grr... they are delaying public availability for Raspberry pi till Q3 2012 :(
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20120211 20:31:11< fendrin> timotei21: You seem to be right. I can't find any attachments settings in github. I could swear that was possible at some project. Does github support some sort of plugins?
20120211 20:33:13< chrisoelmueller> for text attachments one can always link to gists
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20120211 20:34:48< fendrin> chrisoelmueller: Still the issues system of github seems to be rather simple.
20120211 20:35:04< chrisoelmueller> yeah we also host our own tracker
20120211 20:35:29< chrisoelmueller> mostly because migrating the existing tickets after we moved to github would've been a pain
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20120211 20:35:50< fendrin> which tracker do you use?
20120211 20:36:17< chrisoelmueller> i don't honestly think that bugtrackers are the toolchain part that should be most advanced 'n stuff, a simple one usually does the job and also is usable
20120211 20:36:18< chrisoelmueller> trac
20120211 20:37:39< fendrin> trac is nice and small. Doesn't it support svn and git as well? 
20120211 20:38:30< chrisoelmueller> yeah, the git integration is somewhat hack-ish but works
20120211 20:39:37< chrisoelmueller> e.g. branches have to be manually checked out once to be visible in the web frontend, trac's git somehow messes up remote tracking
20120211 20:39:37< fendrin> It would be nice to know what bug tracer gna uses.
20120211 20:44:28< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: a wmllint rule would be nice
20120211 20:44:35< anonymissimus> for the deprecated terrains
20120211 20:45:59< anonymissimus> think I'll add that right now; IIRC there were already similar rules
20120211 20:46:18< Ivanovic> fendrin: gna uses savanne
20120211 20:46:50< anonymissimus> kind of hard to catch all possible references in terrain masks and such
20120211 20:47:37< anonymissimus> hopfully those strings are unique enough so that they only appear as the terrain strings
20120211 20:48:17< mordante> Ivanovic, it seems GNA will be down for a couple more days so will post the info to the wiki, going over it for some final changes
20120211 20:50:39< anonymissimus> hm they are already there, but apparently wmllint doesn't scan map files for it, only cfg files...
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20120211 20:59:13< Ivanovic> mordante: okay
20120211 20:59:36< Ivanovic> [20:42:45] <Beuc> hardware repair posponed to Tuesday T-T
20120211 20:59:48-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: gna.org currently down until (at least!) Tuesday; no svn, ML or bugtracker available | 0 bugs, 0 feature requests, 0 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120211 21:04:42< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: hm, and what should I use for Ggf^li ?
20120211 21:05:21< shadowm> You can't stack overlays, so you'll have to do without tha.t.
20120211 21:05:27-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120211 21:06:39< timotei21> fendrin: yeah. plugins JUST for the commits stuff
20120211 21:06:46< timotei21> fendrin: that is, hooks
20120211 21:08:38< shadowm> anonymissimus: git svn find-rev <refspec> will also find the SVN commit id whenever applicable
20120211 21:08:56< shadowm> git svn find-rev r<SVN commit number> will print the git commit SHA1 instead
20120211 21:10:05< shadowm> timotei21: website is not tracked because it doesn't fit within the canonical SVN repository layout
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20120211 21:34:50< mordante> here's my `FOSDEM-email' in the wiki http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FOSDEM2012#Mordante.27s_.60email.27
20120211 21:37:01< shadowm> what did I discuss in the mailing list? :p
20120211 21:38:43< mordante> how am I supposed to know? :-P
20120211 21:38:45< Ivanovic> mordante: "shadowmaster" is one word
20120211 21:38:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20120211 21:39:37< mordante> :-)
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20120211 21:48:10< chrisoelmueller> mordante: the room was not crowded because public transportation totally Not Worked before 10 :(
20120211 21:48:40< mordante> chrisoelmueller, odd we were there using public transportation
20120211 21:48:47< mordante> what did you try to use?
20120211 21:49:00< chrisoelmueller> yeah it stopped working shortly after you made it, then
20120211 21:49:19< mordante> ah ok
20120211 21:49:20< chrisoelmueller> our tram got stuck because some silly car decided to park on the rails
20120211 21:49:25< chrisoelmueller> awesome, that
20120211 21:49:59< mordante> great :-/
20120211 21:50:23< shadowm> mordante: the "wescamp" section refers both to wescamp and the add-ons server software. I only really discussed the latter (admittedly, that does overlap with Wescamp administration matters) and it was on IRC, not the ML; the most I discussed on the ML was that I didn't feel able to do it all by myself
20120211 21:50:45< shadowm> naturally, I have a copy of my message here in my email client
20120211 21:51:05< mordante> shadowm, you wrote something about your plans for 1.12
20120211 21:51:25< shadowm> yes, that's the message I'm talking about
20120211 21:51:47< shadowm> what I meant to say is that it was more of a monologue than an actual discussion :p
20120211 21:52:33< mordante> ok
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20120211 21:54:26< mordante> and obviously it would be a good idea to tackle all issues when rewriting the server
20120211 21:56:22< shadowm> also, when considering Git hosting, make sure you consider only options that support CIA. I know Github has its own CIA hook, but no idea about SF.net, nor whether it's possible to upload our own hooks.
20120211 21:56:35< shadowm> of course, any sane hosting service would not allow the latter
20120211 21:57:48< mordante> yup, the main focus of the talk was also whether or not to move to git
20120211 21:58:22< mordante> IIRC AI0867 mentioned Github allows custom hooks
20120211 21:59:35< shadowm> not quite, but they offer a vast amount of hooks and they are open to new ones being included
20120211 22:01:24< shadowm> why amongst bugtracker alternatives, "Gentoo's Bugzilla" in particular is mentioned? is it different from the regular Bugzilla or uses a specific configuration?
20120211 22:02:18< mordante> best ask Ivanovic looks like bugzilla to me
20120211 22:02:24< mordante> but he uses it more often
20120211 22:02:32< shadowm> As an end-user, I've found Bugzilla rather intimidating and very hard to use for simple things, myself
20120211 22:02:57< Ivanovic> shadowm: the difference is that they also offer some custom form for entering stuff
20120211 22:03:05< Ivanovic> reducing the "hardcore" effect on end-users
20120211 22:03:13< shadowm> For example, something as simple as getting a complete list of bugs ordered by date in descending order appears to require many more clicks than in Gna.org, and I often forget how to do this.
20120211 22:03:17< mordante> I'm also not too fond of bugzilla
20120211 22:03:22< Ivanovic> beside this it is most likely a very plain bugzilla
20120211 22:03:58< Ivanovic> personally i really like the gna tracker, at least compared to many other trackers i know of
20120211 22:06:04< shadowm> Tangential: "GSoC mentoring [...] who can not use that time to hack on Wesnoth." people tend to read "can not" as a choice, e.g. mentors can _choose_ to not use that time for development; this is, opposed to "cannot". But I guess Espreon knows better. :p
20120211 22:06:37< shadowm> of course I'm aware that in this case there's no choice, hence the observation
20120211 22:07:58< mordante> gna's tracker is indeed nice
20120211 22:08:07< shadowm> I guess I'll wait for gna.org to come back to life before addressing the GSoC topic in general
20120211 22:08:25< mordante> yeah
20120211 22:08:41< shadowm> assuming that happens before the end of the month
20120211 22:08:51< mordante> cannot and can not should be the same thing
20120211 22:09:04< mordante> the end of which month? :-P
20120211 22:09:16< shadowm> the current one, of course
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20120211 22:29:36< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: mordante: Personally I'd prefer trac to bugzilla any day :P
20120211 22:29:57< mordante> loonycyborg, me to
20120211 22:29:59< mordante> too*
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20120211 22:31:44< loonycyborg> I recall several times when I was burned by bugzilla requiring me to register in order to *view* bug reports.
20120211 22:32:38< loonycyborg> And I loathe registering anywhere because it's another password to manage.
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20120211 22:44:28< chrisoelmueller> ah, just seeing the windows/git question. msysgit is quite nice to work with at least on 7 as far as my tests go
20120211 22:44:47< chrisoelmueller> it basically offers a git shell in windows
20120211 22:45:27< chrisoelmueller> and tortoisegit indeed works well for users who know tortoisesvn
20120211 22:47:03< chrisoelmueller> repo size at github is covered here: https://github.com/plans > Why don’t I see any disk space limits? GitHub does not have any hard storage limits. We have soft limits for each plan to prevent abuse. We find almost everyone uses a small fraction of this limit. If you find yourself needing more disk space for a legitimate use, email support@github.com.
20120211 22:47:32< chrisoelmueller> pretty sure they are not going to deny hosting wesnoth, more of a question whether you want to be hosted there :)
20120211 22:48:24< chrisoelmueller> github even has an own client for macs by the way: http://mac.github.com/
20120211 22:48:52< fendrin> chrisoelmueller: I have just imported wesnoth at github. That worked without asking.
20120211 22:52:01< mordante> chrisoelmueller, they mention a soft-limit of 300 MB somewhere
20120211 22:52:16< mordante> I also don't expect a real issue, but better ask before moving
20120211 22:52:29< chrisoelmueller> yeah the free plan has a soft 300 limit
20120211 22:52:37< mordante> exactly
20120211 22:54:28< fendrin> boucman: There is a working repo for testing: https://github.com/fendrin/Wesnoth
20120211 22:55:17< fendrin> boucman: I think timotei21 is very right there. The issue system is good integrated into git but it is not what we need.
20120211 22:55:41< fendrin> s/good/well
20120211 22:58:38< timotei21> The soft limit wouldn't be a showstopper, but rather that too simplistic bug tracker.
20120211 22:59:10< chrisoelmueller> which features are required?
20120211 22:59:31< chrisoelmueller> besides the obvious ;-)
20120211 22:59:31< fendrin> Attachments
20120211 23:00:28< fendrin> And some categories to choice from, like version or operation system.
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20120211 23:01:08< fendrin> I don't get how projects can live with the bug tracker github offers.
20120211 23:01:31< chrisoelmueller> well, using labels and gists and external attachment hosters i guess
20120211 23:01:40< timotei21> too much hassle :)
20120211 23:01:44< timotei21> For newbies
20120211 23:03:52< chrisoelmueller> how many of your gna bugs do contain attachments where newbies would feel troubled? as in, not text and not an image?
20120211 23:04:15< timotei21> chrisoelmueller: there are the replays :)
20120211 23:04:22< chrisoelmueller> ah, i see
20120211 23:04:37< chrisoelmueller> yeah that sounds like a showstopper then
20120211 23:05:14< chrisoelmueller> unless you feel like providing a replay-hosting service on wesnoth.org, which sounds like an awful idea wrt disk space and another account and stuff
20120211 23:05:31< timotei21> Yeah
20120211 23:09:19< timotei21> shadowm: is this the thing you were talking about? https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Git#Commitemailhooksetup
20120211 23:12:07< fendrin> Ivanovic: The download at sourceforge still defaults to the latest 1.8 version.
20120211 23:13:40< shadowm> timotei21: yes
20120211 23:20:06< Ivanovic> fendrin: ah, right, this still has to be fixed
20120211 23:26:36< fendrin> boucman, Ivanovic: I have done some research on project hosters and I think that sourceforge isn't a bad alternative. It supports phpBB, mediawiki, trac, git and more.
20120211 23:27:50< fendrin> The build in bug report system might be able to import the gna stuff since savannah is a sourceforge fork.
20120211 23:27:56< chrisoelmueller> does the trac on SF support git by now?
20120211 23:28:02< chrisoelmueller> haven't checked it in ages
20120211 23:29:24< chrisoelmueller> http://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/sourceforge/ideatorrent/idea/41/
20120211 23:29:30< chrisoelmueller> doesn't look like it
20120211 23:32:47< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 12 00:00:47 2012