--- Log opened Fri Feb 17 00:00:53 2012
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20120217 00:35:10< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Super-Obvious Ugly Strategic Map View by fabi [ 02-16-2012 23:29 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521162 ]
20120217 00:41:44< shadowm> ugh
20120217 00:45:46< shadowm> Alarantalara: would be nice if negative movement costs case was explained in UnitsWML in the wiki
20120217 00:45:51< shadowm> *if the
20120217 00:47:52< Alarantalara> I hadn't realized it wasn't there
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20120217 00:57:52< Alarantalara> shadowm: updated. Hopefully the wording is understandable
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20120217 01:07:53< shadowm> I can understand it , at least, but other people less familiarized with how the terrain aliasing mess works might not
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20120217 01:36:39< anonymissimus> hm I dont understand it I think
20120217 01:36:57< anonymissimus> isn't it usually "good def, bad movement"
20120217 01:37:07< anonymissimus> for instance, elves in snowy forest
20120217 01:37:48< Alarantalara> yes, the trick is that a negative number for a unit's defense can override that and use that value if it's worse
20120217 01:37:51< anonymissimus> and you wrote "the though"
20120217 01:39:10< Alarantalara> it's how the feral trait is implemented
20120217 01:41:56< anonymissimus> anyway unit_type definition wml is a pain, almost like terrain graphics...no I don't understand it; probably because I never understood that alias key in terrain_type
20120217 01:42:33< anonymissimus> found it never explained anywhere; maybe it's in your excellent tutorial but never read it
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20120217 01:46:52< scud> hello
20120217 01:47:33< Alarantalara> yes, it's in there: http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34201&p=494216#p494216
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20120217 02:00:46< scud> hello
20120217 02:00:51< Espreon> Hello.
20120217 02:01:03< scud> how are you?
20120217 02:01:08< Espreon> I'm all right.
20120217 02:01:17< Espreon> How 'bout you?
20120217 02:01:29< scud> its snowing. and im feeling sick.
20120217 02:02:11< scud> but on the bright side. i made a snowman 
20120217 02:02:37< Espreon> I see. I hope you feel better soon.
20120217 02:02:42< Espreon> So, do you need anything?
20120217 02:03:07< scud> well, im a writer. and im very interested in wesnoth
20120217 02:03:33< Espreon> Uh huh, I see. Go on.
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20120217 02:04:03< scud> I've been published. and im quite skilled at composing lore for complex universes 
20120217 02:04:56< scud> im wondering if someone has done this already.
20120217 02:06:02< shadowm> You mean, besides the mainline campaigns?
20120217 02:07:31< scud> well yes. or even a timeline that encompasses all the events of wesnoth. 
20120217 02:08:11< shadowm> like http://wiki.wesnoth.org/History_of_Wesnoth ?
20120217 02:08:27< scud> dope.
20120217 02:08:29< shadowm> although it will never cover *all* of them, on purpose
20120217 02:10:36< scud> will im very interested in offering my abilities as a writer.
20120217 02:11:31< scud> to the forums!
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20120217 03:05:08< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Super-Obvious Ugly Strategic Map View by Eleazar [ 02-17-2012 01:56 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521168 ]
20120217 03:05:08< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Changing how terrain Names are displayed by Eleazar [ 02-17-2012 02:02 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521169 ]
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20120217 03:34:11< scud> ..
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20120217 03:45:46< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Changing how terrain Names are displayed by Alarantalara [ 02-17-2012 02:44 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521173 ]
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--- Log opened Fri Feb 17 04:09:51 2012
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20120217 04:10:00-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 163 bugs, 326 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120217 04:10:00-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Thu Feb 16 06:49:48 2012]
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20120217 04:10:00-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 52 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 52 normal]
20120217 04:10:08-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20120217 04:10:54< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Super-Obvious Ugly Strategic Map View by Alarantalara [ 02-17-2012 02:59 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521174 ]
20120217 04:10:54< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Changing how terrain Names are displayed by Eleazar [ 02-17-2012 02:59 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521175 ]
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20120217 05:55:06< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Changing how terrain Names are displayed by shadowmaster [ 02-17-2012 04:54 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521178 ]
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20120217 06:20:45< scud> ping
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20120217 06:38:44< scud> pong
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20120217 07:40:28< zookeeper> scud, writing, huh?
20120217 07:40:45< scud> well. yea.
20120217 07:41:05< zookeeper> well, does any particular campaign or other part of the game seem like something you could improve on?
20120217 07:41:40< scud> i write. my grammar is not immaculate, but nothing a quick edit wouldn't fix
20120217 07:42:17< scud> umm. well I've been surfing age wiki and the forums now for about 5 hours.
20120217 07:42:32< scud> the*
20120217 07:43:08< scud> there seems to be a lot.
20120217 07:44:38< scud> im just attempting to get a hold on the community
20120217 07:45:25< scud> creating a unified timeline that includes UMC interests me.
20120217 07:47:45< zookeeper> well, the thing is that we don't want to canonize UMC in general
20120217 07:49:06< zookeeper> there's too much stuff out there, i'm pretty sure there's plenty of conflicts, and it'd be impossible to draw a line between what we'll include and what we don't (since obviously some UMC are just so silly that we should ignore them)
20120217 07:50:39< zookeeper> so the policy has been to keep UMC out of the official timeline, even if some of it might be very commonly accepted as canon
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20120217 07:56:43< zookeeper> scud, also, we generally try to avoid defining many aspects of the world or history beyond what's told in the campaigns, as it leaves more space for UMC
20120217 07:57:50< scud> i was wondering about this.
20120217 07:58:45< scud> in any case. i am a writer of some talent and am just currently at a loss as of where to start.
20120217 07:59:06< scud> Playing with the idea of writing something new.
20120217 08:00:46< zookeeper> well, as i said, is there for example some specific campaign that you think would warrant a revision to its story/dialogue text?
20120217 08:05:57< scud> i  have only played 4 campaigns. so nothing just off the top of my head.
20120217 08:08:31< zookeeper> all right... which ones were those 4, though?
20120217 08:10:06< zookeeper> in any case, there aren't a lot of campaigns anymore which either haven't had their text somewhat polished up already, or which aren't currently being worked on
20120217 08:10:15< scud> under the burning suns. rise of wesnoth. the one about kalenz.
20120217 08:11:07< scud> well i saw the v1.10 announcement on the front page. said something about needing writers.
20120217 08:11:29< scud> thought I'd offer my service.
20120217 08:11:32< zookeeper> right, so it does
20120217 08:12:27< scud> if its just not the case, there are some source mods looking for writing talent. i just love this game.
20120217 08:12:49< scud> thought i would try wesnoth first.
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20120217 08:15:55< zookeeper> well, besides the khalifate faction, i don't think there's too much major mainline writing tasks to be done, really. of course, authoring a new campaign is always welcome, and there's plenty of people who'd surely welcome help with the text/story of their campaign.
20120217 08:16:28< zookeeper> i might be forgetting something since i'm a bit out of the loop these days myself, so you might want to wait for another opinion
20120217 08:17:26< scud> im curious about what authoring a new campaign would entail. a level by level breakdown?
20120217 08:17:43< zookeeper> (incidentally, i've myself had a campaign in the planning phases for a long time since i'm stuck on story details and the exact scenario layout)
20120217 08:19:02< scud> well i am quite good at sorting out plot holes and organizing timeline/lore/plot devices.
20120217 08:19:25< scud> i do ot professionally for a couple artists i know.
20120217 08:19:30< zookeeper> well, authoring a campaign would usually mean everything which goes into a campaign, but teaming up with someone who can handle the technical bits works sometimes
20120217 08:19:43< Rhonda>  '
20120217 08:20:12< zookeeper> if you team up with someone then it's really up to you how to divide the work
20120217 08:20:42< scud> well as a writer, i am aware that the technical considerations of the game are just as important as far as presentational consideration goes.
20120217 08:20:49< zookeeper> but naturally a campaign needs both an overall story as well as quite a bit of thought put into how to divide that into x playable scenarios
20120217 08:21:00< scud> mm hmm.
20120217 08:22:10< scud> this is why the story is most fishing game is...
20120217 08:22:45< scud> lol check out my auto complete
20120217 08:22:55< zookeeper> i'm in no hurry atm (or won't be, in 15 minutes or so), so if you want i could pitch my campaign idea to you ;)
20120217 08:22:59< scud> i meant fighting games
20120217 08:23:38< scud> well i have nothing but time. all i do fucking write.
20120217 08:24:01< scud> FUCKING WRITE. o_O
20120217 08:24:09< vultraz> XD
20120217 08:24:17< vultraz> auto-complete again?
20120217 08:24:35< scud> lol
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20120217 08:43:55< vultraz> scud: as a writer, how would you consider this? http://pastebin.com/fLjbrDAG
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20120217 10:01:31< scud>  NISPE
20120217 10:01:44< Ivanovic> moin
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20120217 11:46:17-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.10.1 planned for 25.2.; hard stringfreeze on branches/1.10 starting 18.2. at 13:00 UTC+1| 163 bugs, 326 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120217 17:35:14< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Super-Obvious Ugly Strategic Map View by Crendgrim [ 02-17-2012 16:33 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p521211 ]
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20120217 18:38:23< mordante> servus
20120217 18:38:59< Espreon> mordante: Ic grete þe.
20120217 18:40:40< mordante> hi Espreon 
20120217 18:49:48-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.10.1 planned for 25.2.; hard stringfreeze on branches/1.10 starting 18.2. at 13:00 UTC+1| 163 bugs, 326 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120217 20:18:06< CIA-61> mordante * r53090 /trunk/src/wesmage/filter.cpp: Fix compilation with gcc-4.7 in C++11 mode.
20120217 20:18:49< mordante> Ivanovic, still looking at the pandora speed issue, committed a new tool yesterday so you can test only the image scale function speed
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20120217 20:46:20< mordante> I'm off bye
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20120217 21:26:36< anonymissimus> why's it not called wesImage ? :P
20120217 21:26:59< anonymissimus> typo
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20120217 21:32:43< gabba> Ivanovic: around?
20120217 21:34:09< anonymissimus> gabba: I love your GSoC suggestion :)
20120217 21:34:32< anonymissimus> the thing with document+understand+debug and become maintainer
20120217 21:34:36< gabba> anonymissimus: you mean the feature/fix alternance ;) ?
20120217 21:34:41< gabba> ah ok
20120217 21:35:16< gabba> Yes, if pitched correctly, I think it might just work
20120217 21:35:26< anonymissimus> there are many areas which would fit for this
20120217 21:36:05< shadowm> that doesn't sound very fit for GSoC, though
20120217 21:36:17< anonymissimus> yes and thats a problem
20120217 21:37:00< gabba> Why not, shadowm? (assuming you read my idea)
20120217 21:38:30< gabba> Anyways, regardless it would be nice to have a dev-to-source-file map to see how much of the code is currently maintainted and how much is falling into obscurity
20120217 21:38:49< anonymissimus> perhaps since you can't show some code to document "here, I've got something done" ?
20120217 21:38:57< shadowm> I thought most students in GSoC simply wanted to get paid for doing programming-related things while controibuting to open-source projects; those who want to become maintainers for longer periods are probably very few
20120217 21:39:32< gabba> I'm a bit scared when I ask questions which are met with silence, then finally someone tells me "err, nobody's really in charge of *that* part" :P
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20120217 21:40:05< shadowm> maintaining software projects, or part of large software projects like Wesnoth is an oft-underestimated burden
20120217 21:40:45< gabba> shadowm, well, the kind of project/commitment I'm proposing would be a way to find out isn't it...
20120217 21:41:01< anonymissimus> I can think of formula wml for instance which could have a maintainer
20120217 21:41:06< gabba> I thought we were looking for people who stick around, so why not be more upfront about it
20120217 21:41:16< anonymissimus> or the new lobby perhaps
20120217 21:42:10< shadowm> I would really like to start with publicizing more about what development areas are in need of help in the website, not just for GSoC
20120217 21:43:25< gabba> shadowm: that would be a good idea. Maybe for starters it could just be a list of the source files on the wiki, and we write our name next to the ones we maintain
20120217 21:43:48< gabba> Of course it gets more complicated for projects which don't neatly fit into a set of files
20120217 21:44:15< shadowm> That is, more generally, Wesnoth development seems surprisingly secretive in the eye of people who are not/don't have time/don't know about IRC. I had to ask a lot of questions back when I joined to get a sense of how things worked, and most of what I know I learned from silent observation.
20120217 21:47:03< shadowm> Unfortunately, I'm not very good at writing documentation either, and the wiki  is a disaster.
20120217 21:47:36< gabba> Message for Ivanovic: Actually I did fix and backport two critical bugs with the whiteboard in 1.10. One of them caused turns to skip forever under some circumstances.
20120217 21:48:22< shadowm> Let's see: in the frontpage there's a Join Us blurb with a link to the Community  page. As expected, that link doesn't really tell me anything about how to join the project, and only shows me a list of communication channels.
20120217 21:48:39< shadowm> Moreover, it's actually a redirect to the Support page (!).
20120217 21:49:48< gabba> shadowm, at least that support page does have all the needed communication channels
20120217 21:49:49< shadowm> The Project page also presents me with a series of links with vague titles and no descriptions. The Developers section is ridiculously vague (and obvious) as well
20120217 21:50:56< shadowm> gabba: yes, but there are a few problems: the ML is very rarely used and when people ask general questions, they tend to receive vague canned responses;
20120217 21:51:11< gabba> that's true
20120217 21:51:14< shadowm> the IRC channels are not active 24/7 for obvious reasons, and there's not always people around to help
20120217 21:51:38< gabba> There's no quick path from the front page to dev resources from what I see, that's a problem
20120217 21:51:41< shadowm> the forums are not used by the Development Team despite everything
20120217 21:52:21< shadowm> (there's a Developers' Discussions section which os only used by those few developers who don't want to use IRC or the ML or aren't proper developers)
20120217 21:54:19< shadowm> Ideally we should have a Contribute link in the navbar leading to a page explaining what areas people can contribute to (backend, Lua, WML, Art, Music, Translations) and linking to more detailed pages for each of those area, ideally each one with a to-do list or something to get started
20120217 21:55:05< shadowm> there used to be to-do lists for the Art department in several forum sections (!), but after Jetrel started delegating responsibilities, I believe those are not very well maintained
20120217 21:57:04< shadowm> but of course, the closest thing we have to a to-do list for the backend are in fact three lists: the FRs list in the bug tracker, the EasyCoding page in the wiki, and the NotSoEasyCoding page.
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20120217 21:58:07< shadowm> More idealistic people would also consider the big, endless swamp that is the Ideas forum. (no pun intended)
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20120217 23:06:50< Ivanovic> mordante: good to know, how to use so that you can get some data?
20120217 23:07:02< Ivanovic> gabba: lovely!
20120217 23:07:27< Ivanovic> gabba: and are a user not using this fix (aka 1.10.0) as well as those with the fix (soon to be 1.10.1) compatible?
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 18 00:00:40 2012