--- Log opened Mon Mar 05 00:00:54 2012
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20120305 00:11:23< CIA-134> elias * r53438 /trunk/data/tools/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [wmlunits] Added per-addon log pages.
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20120305 00:36:51< AI0867> anonymissimus: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?package=wesnoth-Settlers_of_Wesnoth&order=trans&version=branch <-- it's there, though no content yet
20120305 00:36:56< AI0867> that may still come though
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20120305 00:44:17< AI0867> now it's there
20120305 00:49:48-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 162 bugs, 328 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120305 01:27:27< anonymissimus> AI0867: thx;  could you rerun the po updater ? I fixed a lot of strings I think
20120305 01:27:59< AI0867> k
20120305 01:28:32< anonymissimus> most of the help didn't even appear, I hope thats fixed now
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20120305 04:11:47< AI0867> mordante: with my patch (prescaling up to a multiple of the desired resolution) all artifacts are gone
20120305 04:12:08< AI0867> so whatever the problem was that we previously encountered, it seems to be gone now
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20120305 11:31:21< fendrin_> wesbot: seen tomotei?
20120305 11:31:22< wesbot> fendrin_: Sorry, I don't know of tomotei.
20120305 11:31:25< fendrin_> wesbot: seen tomotei21?
20120305 11:31:25< wesbot> fendrin_: Sorry, I don't know of tomotei21.
20120305 11:31:30< fendrin_> wesbot: seen tomotei_?
20120305 11:31:31< wesbot> fendrin_: Sorry, I don't know of tomotei_.
20120305 11:34:58< Espreon> fendrin_: Protip: it's "timotei"
20120305 11:35:27< fendrin_> ah
20120305 11:35:32< fendrin_> wesbot: seen timotei?
20120305 11:35:33< wesbot> fendrin_: The person with the nick timotei last spoke 1d 15h ago.  13h 21m ago they left with the message: Read error: Connection reset by peer
20120305 11:35:40< fendrin_> ah cool, he is not lost
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20120305 12:38:51 * fendrin_ wonders if he should optimize for 800x480 or for 1024x768.
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20120305 13:56:53< elias> 1280x720, it's the resolution i've got here
20120305 13:57:35< elias> although I have no idea what this is about :)
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20120305 14:45:11< fendrin_> elias: It is about the terrain palette.
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20120305 14:45:38< fendrin_> On 800x480 every extra row counts while 1024 is the default resolution.
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20120305 15:18:22< CIA-134> fendrin * r53439 /trunk/images/buttons/ (18 files): A bunch of new tool buttons for the editor.
20120305 15:19:28< CIA-134> fendrin * r53440 /trunk/data/core/images/editor/ (5 files): Made the editor brush buttons transparent.
20120305 15:22:26< CIA-134> fendrin * r53441 /trunk/data/core/images/themes/rightside-editor.png: Widened the editor's sidebar by one pixel.
20120305 15:23:59< CIA-134> fendrin * r53442 /trunk/data/core/editor/brushes.cfg: Cleaned up the file.
20120305 15:24:59< CIA-134> fendrin * r53443 /trunk/data/core/terrain.cfg: Based all fall tiles with deciduous forest on the leaf littered flat terrain.
20120305 15:25:32< CIA-134> fendrin * r53444 /trunk/data/themes/editor.cfg: New multi resolution editor gui layout.
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20120305 15:27:08< CIA-134> fendrin * r53445 /trunk/src/editor/ (5 files): Backend changes to the new editor layout.
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20120305 16:22:38< CIA-134> ai0867 * r53446 /trunk/utils/wmlxgettext: Attempt to create a definite ordering for metadata in POT files, so two people doing a pot-update don't get differently ordered files
20120305 16:23:31< AI0867> Ivanovic: wmlxgettext is quite unhappy about the embedded lua in several test scenarios
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20120305 16:33:26< fendrin_> AI0867: Hello, may I ask you for testing what I did for the editor?
20120305 16:33:30< fendrin_> s/for/to
20120305 16:33:41< fendrin_> please
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20120305 17:01:16< AI0867> fendrin_: what needs to be tested?
20120305 17:01:41< timotei> hi fendrin_ .
20120305 17:01:50< timotei> fendrin_: Are you looking for a lost timotei? :P
20120305 17:03:05< fendrin_> hi timotei
20120305 17:05:16< vultraz> fendrin_: IMO it would make more sense for the terrain list to scroll sideways 
20120305 17:05:34< fendrin_> vultraz: Yes, that is on my harddisk. Let me commit it.
20120305 17:06:40< CIA-134> fendrin * r53447 /trunk/src/editor/ (editor_palettes.cpp editor_palettes.hpp): Made the palette scrool sideways and implemented the mouse wheel to change the terrain groups (left/right movement).
20120305 17:06:45< fendrin_> vultraz: ^ 
20120305 17:06:53< vultraz> :)
20120305 17:07:14< AI0867> fendrin_: the team label feature doesn't work yet (probably because it has no idea which team to pick)
20120305 17:07:20< AI0867> so you probably know this already
20120305 17:07:44< fendrin_> vultraz: The problem is that the terrain list needs to be build from top to bottom as well which is not that user-friendly imho.  
20120305 17:08:32< fendrin_> AI0867: Yes, teams will follow soon with the sides. But I need a complete different dialog anyway.
20120305 17:09:04< fendrin_> AI0867: Just everything needs testing. Is your normal workflow still granted?
20120305 17:10:13< AI0867> I've just tried a few things and they worked
20120305 17:10:43< vultraz> I love the way we can now get to a lot more terrains at once
20120305 17:10:50< AI0867> the "click group to spawn a menu from which you can select a category" might not be the best UI decision though
20120305 17:11:02< AI0867> it works, but I think it may take too long
20120305 17:11:55< AI0867> maybe make the whole list visible for screens that are sufficiently wide
20120305 17:12:17< AI0867> or maybe make the whole thing a collapsible part of the sidebar
20120305 17:12:30< AI0867> possibly to the side of rather than above the actual terrains
20120305 17:13:09< fendrin_> AI0867: Try the mousewheel support added by the last commit :-)
20120305 17:14:58< fendrin_> AI0867: I hope your wheel support left right clicking.
20120305 17:15:00< AI0867> it helps, but you still lose the overview
20120305 17:15:31< AI0867> I'm using a laptop, I have 2 * 3 mousebuttons
20120305 17:15:44< fendrin_> cool
20120305 17:15:44< AI0867> you couldn't tie middleclick to it too?
20120305 17:15:54< fendrin_> I can, what do you need there?
20120305 17:16:04< AI0867> the same thing as left and right?
20120305 17:16:11< fendrin_> A third terrain?
20120305 17:16:13< AI0867> I dunno =P
20120305 17:16:22< fendrin_> I could add on, why not. 
20120305 17:18:08< fendrin_> Ah damn, the last commit messed up the selection.
20120305 17:18:18< fendrin_> I need to fix that immediately.
20120305 17:18:38< AI0867> okay, well, I kind of need to leave
20120305 17:18:58< fendrin_> AI0867: Bye
20120305 17:19:24< fendrin_> vultraz: I think I should just replace the right/left arrows with up/down again and go with the old scrolling behavior.
20120305 17:20:29< vultraz> well, IMVHO, with the arrows like this you save space, plus more terrains are exposed when scrolling 
20120305 17:21:05< fendrin_> vultraz: No, they will stay at the same position.
20120305 17:21:58< fendrin_> But the terrains spread over that much vertical space on high resolutions means also long ways to move the cursor.
20120305 17:22:43< vultraz> er....is the terrains being stacked in columns left to right instead of rows what you mean?
20120305 17:22:54< vultraz> because it looks weird
20120305 17:24:32< vultraz> so, yeah, probably better ti have it the other way
20120305 17:24:33< fendrin_> Well, if I want to scroll left-right I also need to draw the terrain that way.
20120305 17:27:25< vultraz> also, seems you have space for two extra tools
20120305 17:29:24< fendrin_> yes
20120305 17:35:43< vultraz> are they gonna be something?
20120305 17:43:57< CIA-134> fendrin * r53448 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Restored the old editor terrain scrolling behaviour.
20120305 17:44:05< fendrin_> vultraz: Do you have ideas?
20120305 17:44:46< fendrin_> vultraz: I thought that one could flip the map vertically while there is already an unimplemented button for flipping horizontally. Or vice versa.
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20120305 19:37:20< Ivanovic> hi
20120305 19:37:24< Ivanovic> AI0867: hmm, that is not good...
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20120305 20:04:54< mordante> servus
20120305 20:05:38< fendrin_> hi mordante
20120305 20:05:45< mordante> hi fendrin_ 
20120305 20:05:47< vultraz> hey
20120305 20:06:00< mordante> hi vultraz 
20120305 20:07:51< mordante> AI0867, good to know your patch fixes the final issues
20120305 20:08:12< mordante> AI0867, but I assume the title screen also looks to dark at your screen?
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20120305 21:19:28< fendrin_> shadowm: seen the current state of the editor?
20120305 21:19:37< shadowm> no
20120305 21:19:48< fendrin_> please have a look
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20120305 21:24:18< shadowm> Ivanovic: I can take care of the SF.net project of the month propaganda in our website if no-one else has volunteered yet
20120305 21:24:36< shadowm> in a ~30 minutesish
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20120305 21:40:32< mordante> I'm off night
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20120305 21:43:47< Ivanovic> shadowm: that would be great and really appreciated!
20120305 21:44:10< Ivanovic> currently i can only ssh into wesnoth.org using some ssh hopping which make editing the frontpage, uhm, tedious
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20120305 21:58:38< boucman> zookeeper: did you see http://gna.org/patch/?3176 ?
20120305 21:58:48< boucman> the guy actually implemented what you asked for :)
20120305 21:59:35< zookeeper> nope, but i did now...
20120305 22:00:11< zookeeper> anyway, as i said i'm not completely sure if everyone wants it or if there was some good arguments against it
20120305 22:00:18< zookeeper> (and i don't have time to look for it right now)
20120305 22:02:35< zookeeper> if you got time for some forum searches, then i think "smart fog" would be the right search term
20120305 22:03:40< boucman> i'll do a quick search
20120305 22:03:55< boucman> this guy could become a dev at some point...
20120305 22:08:57< boucman> zookeeper: found the thread, it's quite old (1.5 era) but interesting
20120305 22:09:47< boucman> the only major drawback is that with the new mode we don't know where the fog will be at the end of the turn...
20120305 22:12:51< boucman> there is a proposal for a "3 level fog" but it makes things even more complicated
20120305 22:14:23< boucman> Ivanovic, noy, fendrin_, Espreon, anybody else interested : I have a patch implementing "TBS fog" instead of our current "RTS fog" which simplifies code and seems more ergonomic, anybody voicing against it ?
20120305 22:15:05< noy> hmmmm
20120305 22:15:10< shadowm> I think the MP people are more likely to have an opinion than us SP people
20120305 22:15:14< noy> yes
20120305 22:15:19< noy> I'm not familiar with it
20120305 22:15:27< noy> I mean your patch... how does it work?
20120305 22:15:58< boucman> any fog cleared stays cleared until end of turn
20120305 22:16:14< boucman> so if you discover a unit then move the unit away, it will stay discovered
20120305 22:17:26< noy> so basically its less of a game of memory
20120305 22:17:37< boucman> yes
20120305 22:18:26< noy> I don't think there are major issues... the problem is that people might use the current functionality to estimate LOS and would be confused when that site disappears at the end of turn
20120305 22:18:27< shadowm> boucman: I think I just found a potential issue for scenario designers; are you familiarized with the "fog clearer" mechanism, used to temporarily clear fog in an area by the means of an invisible unit?
20120305 22:18:37< noy> that was my other thought
20120305 22:18:45< boucman> no...
20120305 22:18:57< noy> that there might be UMC functions that rely on fog with its current functionality
20120305 22:19:44< boucman> hmm
20120305 22:19:50< shadowm> whenever the fog clearer is used, there's an operation in the same event to remove it (it's just an invisible unit, remember) to re-fog the location
20120305 22:20:30< noy> I think for #1) people will get over it. The key thing is communicating the change to the playing community
20120305 22:20:31< boucman> a "recalculate fog"  or "refog area" action could solve this, but would break campaigns
20120305 22:20:50< noy> #2) well, you're on your own with that one. 
20120305 22:21:20< Ivanovic> some "force refog" sounds like a sane option considering that we are in early 1.11 days
20120305 22:21:38< boucman> ok, let's do it that way then...
20120305 22:22:09< boucman> i'll push the patch and ask original submitter for a "force refog" WML action (and some cleanups in the area he wants to submit as a separate patch)
20120305 22:22:25< boucman> if he doesn't provide, we'll just revert the change
20120305 22:23:22< shadowm> merely forcing to refog everything could be a problem if the fog clearer is used in a cutscene after the start of the scenario, and the player has cleared some fog during their current turn
20120305 22:24:09< shadowm> then the question arises about whether dealing with that should be the responsibility of the backend, or the scenario designe
20120305 22:25:16< shadowm> also, I remember I was required to join IRC so that developers could discuss my own patches with me back in the day :)
20120305 22:25:24< boucman> so we need a "refog(SLF)" and a "refog all " ?
20120305 22:25:41< boucman> or would refog SLF not do what you need ?
20120305 22:26:34< shadowm> the later can just be a special case of the former, unless you decide to let the engine fog areas that are still within the player's range of vision
20120305 22:26:41< boucman> yes
20120305 22:27:24< shadowm> usually an empty SLF is meant to match all locations on the map, and an empty SUF matches all units
20120305 22:27:59< zookeeper> ok, got some time now
20120305 22:29:12< zookeeper> firstly, the fog clearer thing is a hack anyway and i've always wanted proper clearing/reseting actions
20120305 22:29:55< boucman> :)
20120305 22:30:09< boucman> so while we have someone in the area, might as well use him :P
20120305 22:32:01< zookeeper> as for the actions, IMO refog(SLF) should be enough; you shouldn't be able to fog hexes inside the player's range of vision, so you could just use refog(SLF) to fog everything if you want to "reset" the fog
20120305 22:32:40< zookeeper> i'd like nothing better than to get rid of the current fog clearer horribleness
20120305 22:33:05< Espreon> boucman: This is all I need to say: I need some way of refreshing fog.
20120305 22:33:58< shadowm> [redraw] should take care of that already
20120305 22:34:01< Espreon> *refresh/rebuild/regenerate/whatever verb you like
20120305 22:34:32< boucman> ok, I can probably ask him to do more stuff but not do and undo all the time, so here is what I'll ask him to do (assuming he's ok with that)
20120305 22:34:44< Espreon> Yes, now with this not-boucman's system.
20120305 22:34:58< zookeeper> some scenario adjustments would surely be needed, but AFAIK there shouldn't be too many of those
20120305 22:35:02< boucman> an "unfog(SLF)" action that would remove fog on given hex, (which would be naturally refoged on the next turn)
20120305 22:35:10< zookeeper> (in mainline, anyway)
20120305 22:35:23< zookeeper> on given hexES, to be more precise
20120305 22:35:25< boucman> and a "check_fog(SLF)" that would immediately check fog on the hex and refog if needed immediately
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20120305 22:35:50< boucman> would that be fine ?
20120305 22:35:51< zookeeper> s/check_fog/reset_fog ?
20120305 22:36:09< shadowm> for consistency, the unfog action should be [clear_fog] in WML
20120305 22:36:09< boucman> zookeeper: ok, if you think that wording is better
20120305 22:36:24< shadowm> er, [remove_fog]
20120305 22:36:28< boucman> ok too, i'm more interested on the principle, i'll take whatever name you agree on
20120305 22:36:36< shadowm> (analogous to [remove_shroud])
20120305 22:36:39 * zookeeper agrees with shadowm
20120305 22:36:51< CIA-134> espreon * r53449 /trunk/images/ (19 files in 2 dirs): Ran umcpropfix.
20120305 22:36:55< Espreon> boucman: As long as it doesn't break my multifloor system/has stuff that can be used to make sure it doesn't break my multifloor system, I'm happy.
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20120305 22:37:24< boucman> Espreon: i don't know what you multifloor system is, but if you say it's ok, i'll go for it
20120305 22:37:35< zookeeper> that said (and this might sound a bit odd at this point) i'm not absolutely certain that his ghost images idea isn't actually a better way to deal with this...
20120305 22:37:46< boucman> :P
20120305 22:38:15< boucman> I personally prefer the TBS fog, it cleans up the code instead of complicating it
20120305 22:38:23< boucman> and fog is an area that really needs simplification
20120305 22:38:39< zookeeper> is there any other information potentially hidden by "RTS fog" other than units?
20120305 22:38:50< zookeeper> labels and items which have been set to get hidden under fog, i suppose
20120305 22:39:41< zookeeper> ...and ghost images isn't able to deal with those. ok, i prefer TBS fog to ghost images then :P
20120305 22:39:59< boucman> :)
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20120305 22:43:11< shadowm> Ivanovic: preliminary draft for the forums: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36301
20120305 22:43:28< shadowm> if you approve it, I'll use the same contents in the frontpage
20120305 22:44:00< zookeeper> in any case, it looks like we could keep backwards compat WRT the fog clearer even with the new system, so maybe no scenario changes are even necessary immediately
20120305 22:44:39< Ivanovic> shadowm: sounds good to me
20120305 22:44:42< Espreon> fendrin_: Do we have a hotkey for making the terrain group menu drop down?
20120305 22:45:14< shadowm> Espreon: can you check the post for language stuff?
20120305 22:45:44< shadowm> Ivanovic: ah right, what do we win with this besides a fancy title?
20120305 22:45:51< shadowm> frontpage visibility?
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20120305 22:46:15< Espreon> shadowm: Sure.
20120305 22:46:26< shadowm> (SF.net frontpage, that is)
20120305 22:46:41< Ivanovic> The POTM gets:
20120305 22:46:43< Ivanovic>  * Top billing on the SF.net front page for the entire month of April
20120305 22:46:44< Ivanovic>  * A blog post and podcast
20120305 22:46:46< Ivanovic>  * A permanent page on the POTM list
20120305 22:46:47< Ivanovic>  * A permanent badge on your project page indicating that you've won the POTM
20120305 22:46:49< Ivanovic>  * Twitter and Facebook promotion
20120305 22:46:57< Ivanovic> so basically some more wesnoth fame
20120305 22:47:05< shadowm> that's a lot of things to add to the post :p
20120305 22:47:38< Espreon> shadowm: "in order for it to pass" -> "in order for it to win"
20120305 22:47:46< Espreon> Other than that, fine.
20120305 22:49:03< shadowm> added "The Project of the Month will get top billing on the SourceForge.net front page for the entire month of April, a blog post and podcast, additional promotion on Twitter and Facebook, and of course, more users and potential contributors!"
20120305 22:49:42< Ivanovic> sounds good to me
20120305 22:53:10< timotei-temp> Hmm, shouldn't we tell people to vote for wesnoth? :P
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20120305 22:53:31< shadowm> timotei-temp: isn't that what I'm doing?!
20120305 22:53:39< Espreon> timotei: Read the post.
20120305 22:53:52< timotei> I'm talking specifically about the tweet :)
20120305 22:54:06< timotei> It says: "just vote for someone". They should retweet "vote for wesnoth" :)
20120305 22:54:15< Ivanovic> :)
20120305 22:54:19< timotei> I've retweeted that too fast to include "wesnoth" in there 
20120305 22:54:19< shadowm> that's SF.net's tweet
20120305 22:54:29< Espreon> (This makes me sick®)
20120305 22:54:30< shadowm> as soon as I have Wesnoth's tweet I'll add a link to it
20120305 22:54:36< Ivanovic> look at the other projects, i think wesnoth has a *great* chance to come out first...
20120305 22:54:42-!- iwaim [~iwaim@124.146.179.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20120305 22:54:51< shadowm> but first I need to post the forum announcement and the frontpage entry
20120305 22:54:56< timotei> Ivanovic: well, I've voted but it looks that another project already has 75 votes (50%+)
20120305 22:55:40< timotei> Elastix, that is
20120305 22:56:45< timotei> yeah, we really should "embedd" Wesnoth in the tweet, so people will "know" what to vote
20120305 22:57:06< timotei> But if at least half of forum users will vote, that will be 'nough
20120305 22:58:16< shadowm> unlikely, but we also have many followers on twitter (half of them are probably spambots, though)
20120305 22:58:22< shadowm> 417 followers
20120305 23:00:21< Ivanovic> i am basically off now (and surprised that the internet worked this long!)
20120305 23:00:25< Ivanovic> n8
20120305 23:00:29< timotei> night Ivanovic 
20120305 23:01:32< fendrin_> Espreon: Not now but I could try to add one.
20120305 23:02:06< Espreon> That'd be nice.
20120305 23:02:29< Espreon> Of course, keyboard focus should be shifted to it once it appears.
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20120305 23:27:35< boucman> Ivanovic: seen https://gna.org/patch/?3092 ?
20120305 23:28:05< boucman> he simply add a new scons/cmake parameter for a config file that can contain any prefs, so it would support all your use cases
20120305 23:28:17< boucman> that sounds good to me, so unless you react i'll commit
20120305 23:28:58< shadowm> Ivanovic: looking at the list of projects again, we have the shortest description :p
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20120305 23:36:31< CIA-134> boucman * r53450 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): patch #3092 : Allow to specify default system-wide preferences by lipk
20120305 23:37:11< shadowm> whoah
20120305 23:37:19< shadowm> editor
20120305 23:38:21< Espreon> Hmmm?
20120305 23:38:56< shadowm> fendrin_: the label placement tool's icon is horribly unreadable due to the low contrast "A"
20120305 23:39:27< shadowm> ... are you using the in-game label edit dialog?
20120305 23:39:37< fendrin_> Yes, still.
20120305 23:40:17< shadowm> "Pipette Tool"... uh
20120305 23:40:39< Espreon> fendrin_: Must you remove years from my life expectancy?
20120305 23:40:40< shadowm> in the GIMP it's named "Color Picker Tool", so presumably it should be "Terrain Picker Tool" here as well
20120305 23:40:57< fendrin_> Yes.
20120305 23:41:10< fendrin_> Espreon: What is wrong?
20120305 23:41:37< shadowm> the new tools' tooltips are not consistent with the previous tooltips
20120305 23:41:50< Espreon> fendrin_: Figure it out and you get a chocolate bar.
20120305 23:41:54< shadowm> but that's such an obvious issue I suspect you knew of it already
20120305 23:42:06< shadowm> Espreon: what's wrong?
20120305 23:42:36< fendrin_> shadowm: That is true for the still not implemented ones. It will get fixed the moment the implementation is ready.
20120305 23:42:44< Espreon> shadowm: Nothing that is of true concern.
20120305 23:43:03< shadowm> Espreon: then refrain from making unhelpful, vague comments 
20120305 23:43:15< Espreon> Very well.
20120305 23:43:17< shadowm> fendrin_: no, it's true for the implemented ones too, such as the color picker
20120305 23:43:20< shadowm> er, terrain picker
20120305 23:43:35< shadowm> oh, "not implemented yet" too
20120305 23:43:48< shadowm> that's interesting, considering the functionality has already been there for ages ;)
20120305 23:43:55< fendrin_> :-)
20120305 23:44:30< shadowm> now why did you decide to move the brush shape options beneath the terrain category selection?
20120305 23:45:17< fendrin_> It has something todo with the hardcoded position.
20120305 23:46:03< shadowm> they'd make more sense either above or below the main tool options (always above the terrain category selection and below the minimap) IMHO
20120305 23:46:38< shadowm> they also look ugly as they are since they don't align with the similarly-shaped terrain icons
20120305 23:48:49< shadowm> what happened to the decision to make terrains scroll horizontally instead of vertically in the palette, too?
20120305 23:50:02< fendrin_> shadowm: That was not doable. In order to scroll them horizontally I need to draw them vertically. That looks ugly. Just go back the last commit and see how bad it is.
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20120305 23:53:15< shadowm> it doesn't seem that bad to me
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20120305 23:56:33< boucman> night all
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 06 00:00:10 2012