--- Log opened Mon Mar 12 00:00:35 2012
20120312 00:00:54< fendrin_> boucman: Okay, I have made the palette a templete, so the unit is a editor_palette<unit_type>. Would you solve the problem with some kind of empty palette? One that does not show any items but takes care of refreshing the area.
20120312 00:01:21< boucman> yes, that would be fine
20120312 00:01:23< fendrin_> Can I have something like editor_palette<void> in c++?
20120312 00:02:05< boucman> not sure, but you can have an editor_palette<void*> specialisation I guess
20120312 00:02:58< fendrin_> Is that supposed to be a good coding style?
20120312 00:03:15< boucman> specializing templates ? yes..
20120312 00:03:36< boucman> using void* to say "no type here"  not sure...
20120312 00:04:02< fendrin_> Somehow I feel that I am still coding javaish.
20120312 00:04:03< boucman> but a template with a void as an argument makes no sense to me, what exactly is this parameter supposed to be
20120312 00:05:01< fendrin_> Well, the type argument is the item type the palette is supposed to display.
20120312 00:05:10< boucman> ok
20120312 00:05:11< fendrin_> Thus it is unit_type 
20120312 00:05:19< fendrin_> or "terrain_type"
20120312 00:05:31< fendrin_> There is no class called "terrain_type".
20120312 00:05:50< fendrin_> Another one might be item.
20120312 00:05:58< boucman> wouldn't inheritence make more sense here instead of templates
20120312 00:06:34< boucman> i.e having each tool inherit from a virtual "editor tool" class which would provide a "paint_subtools" function
20120312 00:06:39< fendrin_> I really would love if someone has a look at my design and discuss it with me.
20120312 00:06:40< boucman> the default being a null function
20120312 00:06:52< boucman> fendrin_: I can do that, but not tonight :)
20120312 00:11:59< fendrin_> boucman: I use a mixture of inheritence and template. You need to inherit from the template class. Thus the template class is virtual.
20120312 00:13:05< fendrin_> And I wonder about some kind of manager class for them all.
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20120312 00:14:19< boucman> fendrin_: I have to go to bed now, we'll discuss this another day when I have time to actually read the code
20120312 00:14:42< boucman> but try it with <void> and see if it works
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20120312 00:25:01< CIA-134> elias * r53512 /trunk/data/tools/unit_tree/html_output.py: [wmlunits] Treat negative defense values as if they were positive.
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20120312 00:37:27< mordante> I'm off night
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20120312 12:10:38< nee> wesbot: seen crab_
20120312 12:10:39< wesbot> nee: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 3d 17h ago.  3d 17h ago they left with the message: Quit: Crab_
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20120312 14:17:07< Gambit> Hmmm. What to tell this guy? https://twitter.com/#!/Logseman_/status/178775517141549056
20120312 14:17:15< Gambit> shikadibot: seen cjhopman?
20120312 14:17:23< Gambit> ...
20120312 14:17:26< Gambit> wesbot: seen cjhopman?
20120312 14:17:27< wesbot> Gambit: The person with the nick cjhopman last spoke 39d 5h ago.  18d 13h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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20120312 15:30:31< Gambit> Espreon: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36343
20120312 15:30:58< Gambit> Espreon: Can you forward that to other writeryish people too?
20120312 15:31:06< Gambit> (esr, zookeeper?)
20120312 15:31:27< Gambit> I'm not sure who all would care about such a proposal.
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20120312 16:37:06< the_new_lipk> zookeeper, anyone else interested: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36348&p=523213#p523213
20120312 16:57:19< zookeeper> the_new_lipk, sounds good to me.
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20120312 17:13:28< Crab_> the_new_lipk: That's a good idea, but noone wanted to implement it for quite a while )
20120312 17:15:52< Crab_> the_new_lipk: So, you want to add a scenario-independent list of game_mod's ?
20120312 17:16:30< Crab_> ( our previous ideas were more about a 'let scenario tell us what custom properties are useful in it' )
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20120312 17:26:08< the_new_lipk> Crab_: the idea is to provide a way to customize game rules
20120312 17:26:40< the_new_lipk> currently eras are used for that reason, but I think that's not good
20120312 17:27:40< the_new_lipk> you can't have more than one active at a time and the whole thing smells like dirty workaround
20120312 17:32:20< the_new_lipk> (I don't fully understand what do you mean by "adding scenario-independent list of game_mods", but I think I'm doing that :))
20120312 17:33:28< Crab_> the_new_lipk: basically, we want to modify the game rules for a particular scenario by either messing with the preprocessor defines or by injecting WML into the scenario.
20120312 17:34:10< Crab_> the_new_lipk: the question is, from where this injected WML comes from
20120312 17:34:50< Crab_> the_new_lipk: two ways: (1) let the scenario supply it;  (2) let it be something independent (like an era, but with parameters and with multiple active at the same time)
20120312 17:35:05< Crab_> as I understand, you are going to do (2)
20120312 17:35:12< the_new_lipk> yes
20120312 17:35:13< Espreon> esr: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36343 ... Gambit wanted me to point you to this.
20120312 17:35:17< Espreon> Gambit: Done.
20120312 17:35:26< Gambit> xD
20120312 17:36:18< Crab_> the_new_lipk: an interesting question: is there anything special left in the [era] tag that would not be possible with your game_mod system?
20120312 17:36:31< zookeeper> uh...
20120312 17:36:42< the_new_lipk> definitely, game_mods can't provide factions
20120312 17:37:26< Crab_> any conceptual reason why they can't? or you just want to make the basics work?
20120312 17:37:31 * zookeeper doesn't understand what crab is talking about
20120312 17:38:39< Crab_> zookeeper: I'm just reading http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36348&p=523213#p523213 , and I want to learn the extent of this project.
20120312 17:39:23< zookeeper> pretty much what it says on the tin, i think :P
20120312 17:39:40< Crab_> zookeeper: well, there's always more than one way to cook it)
20120312 17:41:51< the_new_lipk> Crab_: as I see, an ordinary match setup consists of three components: where, who, how
20120312 17:42:15< the_new_lipk> the 'where' component is provided by the map/scenario, the other two by an era
20120312 17:42:52< the_new_lipk> but the 'how' part suffers certain disadvantages due to being merge with the 'who' component
20120312 17:42:59< the_new_lipk> *merged
20120312 17:44:12< the_new_lipk> what I'd like to do is to make the 'how' part independent from the others (in english, giving a separate tag to it)
20120312 17:44:33< the_new_lipk> (((I really hope it was understandable to some extent)))
20120312 17:45:04< Crab_> ok, I see. so, allowing just the [event] tags to be injected seems enough?
20120312 17:45:35< Crab_> (that way, era would stay as it is now and will be used to determine the factions)
20120312 17:46:05< the_new_lipk> exactly
20120312 17:46:47< Crab_> any ideas on how to filter out scenaio/era/mod combinations that are 'valid to play' ?
20120312 17:47:16< Crab_> (i.e. if you have 50 mods, and a survival scenario, for which only 10 of those mods make sense)
20120312 17:50:19< the_new_lipk> 'makes sense' style problems are up to the users. thinking out a way how could interference between different mods be minimized is a major objective
20120312 17:50:31< Crab_> btw, "- support savegames (I don't think they work right now)" - they should work ok
20120312 17:52:24< the_new_lipk> I based my assumption on support for game_mods not being added in mp_game_settings::set_from_config() and to_config()
20120312 17:52:44< Crab_> that only concerns the metadata (i.e. "enabled game mods list")
20120312 17:53:02< Crab_> but the actual [events] will stay anyway\
20120312 17:54:47< the_new_lipk> today's new info :)
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20120312 17:56:01< Crab_> btw, about the naming - what do you think of [rule] ?
20120312 18:00:17< the_new_lipk> dunno. modifications not necessary just alternative rules (eg Plan Your Advancements era)
20120312 18:02:12< the_new_lipk> (according to my concept, small features & ui tweaks would also fall into this new category)
20120312 18:03:58< Crab_> then,  [feature] ?
20120312 18:05:41< Crab_> actually, game_mod is ok, as well; but having just 1 word is better, IMO
20120312 18:06:37< the_new_lipk> definitely. and not having an abbreviation in the name would be desirable, too
20120312 18:06:51< the_new_lipk> but [game_modification] is way too long ;)
20120312 18:07:03< Crab_> and I see that in the future we might want to push out standard game rules like 'resting units regain X hp' or 'villages give income' to those kinds of options.
20120312 18:09:26< the_new_lipk> cool, but stay on ground for now, please :)
20120312 18:09:52< Crab_> well, your patch already stays on the ground ) but we need to ensure that we don't block the possibilities
20120312 18:11:03< Soliton> Ivanovic: switched the ports around on http://wesnothd.wesnoth.org/; should be correct now.
20120312 18:11:33< Crab_> the_new_lipk:  so, abstractly speaking, a 'game mod' would need (1) a way to signal the game creation dialog how to draw the 'let user select config' part (2) a way to act on that config
20120312 18:11:38< Crab_> your solution has both already
20120312 18:11:49< Crab_> so, it's good enough even now.
20120312 18:13:03< the_new_lipk> nice. so I just have to avoid removing features
20120312 18:13:14< the_new_lipk> I think I can manage to do that :)
20120312 18:13:56< Crab_> another not-well-defined area is the handling of metadata variables and config variables
20120312 18:14:35< Crab_> i.e. if we have 3 'game mods', we might want to let them interact with each other's settings.
20120312 18:15:05< Crab_> but,  as I understand, we need to avoid polluting the variable list with too much variable names (esp. if there might be name clashes)
20120312 18:15:24< Crab_> also, we want some way to display what mods are active (and with what parameters they are active)
20120312 18:16:03< Crab_> ^ I think that this is the only missing piece in the concept you have
20120312 18:16:44< the_new_lipk> "- display activated mods to players when joining a match (currently only host can see them)"
20120312 18:17:18< Crab_> I meant 'you have written that this is wanted but there're no implementation details'
20120312 18:17:36< the_new_lipk> oh, yes, that's right
20120312 18:18:20< Crab_> so you need some kind of registry, with all the serialization
20120312 18:18:45< Crab_> but overall it looks very good.
20120312 18:18:53< Crab_> and it's definitely a thing that should be done.
20120312 18:19:35< Crab_> we were thinking of creating a separate 'info screen' which would list all the 'game mods' in play
20120312 18:20:18< the_new_lipk> muhahaha... "we might want to let them interact with each other's settings" -> "well, dear sirs, these add-ons are not conflicting. they're interacting" :):)
20120312 18:20:38< Crab_> :))) 
20120312 18:21:12< Crab_> yes, that's the point - make it easy to interact, yet hard to confict.
20120312 18:21:33< Crab_> since *intentional* interaction is a good thing
20120312 18:22:59< Crab_> (going offline now, will read the forum thread and the irc logs)
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20120312 18:27:32< zookeeper> the majority of mod interaction should be possible already without any extra features, so i wouldn't worry about that. if you want other mods to be able to interact with yours, then you'll just make sure that they can do so by accessing the variables used by your mod.
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20120312 18:54:22< Ivanovic> Soliton: thanks
20120312 18:54:24< Ivanovic> hi, btw
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20120312 19:18:18< mordante> servus
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20120312 20:30:45< mordante> I'm off bye
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20120312 21:01:29< CIA-134> mordante * r53513 /trunk/src/sdl_utils.cpp: 
20120312 21:01:30< CIA-134> Add a separate surface_scale_down function.
20120312 21:01:30< CIA-134> This allows some testing for the Pandora. The code is a pure copy-paste
20120312 21:01:30< CIA-134> at the moment.
20120312 21:03:49< mordante> Ivanovic, I cooked up another WIP patch, I'm really curious how much it helps for both scaled int and float in the emulation
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20120312 21:04:48< Ivanovic> ATM it is all "float in the emulation", right?
20120312 21:04:49< mordante> I removed some floating point comparisons, which are rather expensive
20120312 21:05:02< Ivanovic> i need some extra patch and flags to have it behave as "scaled int", right?
20120312 21:05:07< mordante> by default yes
20120312 21:05:49< Ivanovic> what do you think of guarding this by an #ifdef for the moment to allow easier testing?
20120312 21:06:03< Ivanovic> meaning: that i just add some compiler flag and scaled int is activated
20120312 21:06:10< mordante> only a tiny patch to uncomment floating_point_emulation.hpp:73  
20120312 21:06:25< mordante> also possible
20120312 21:06:50< Ivanovic> short double active: yes or no?
20120312 21:06:58< mordante> for now yes
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20120312 21:07:30< Ivanovic> building
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20120312 21:07:34< mordante> cool
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20120312 21:15:01< Ivanovic> running
20120312 21:15:14< mordante> btw Ivanovic it's also possible to use -DFLOATING_POINT_EMULATION_USE_SCALED_INT as flag instead of uncommenting, if that's easier
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20120312 21:19:16< Ivanovic> http://pastebin.com/ie74ZyGv
20120312 21:19:23< Ivanovic> not looking too promising for float...
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20120312 21:32:29< mordante> Ivanovic, the last chunk starting at line 106 is also with the patch?
20120312 21:33:06< Ivanovic> no
20120312 21:33:20< Ivanovic> it is vanilla
20120312 21:33:48< Ivanovic> wait, 87 to 101 is vanilla
20120312 21:34:19< Ivanovic> 106 to 120 is with the scaled-int define active
20120312 21:34:54< mordante> and with or without the patch?
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20120312 21:44:49< mordante> I'm off now
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 13 00:00:36 2012