--- Log opened Tue Mar 20 00:00:41 2012
20120320 00:04:16< anonymissimus> Crab_: do you read the logs ?
20120320 00:05:22< Crab_> in general: yes. right now: only started
20120320 00:05:24< anonymissimus> the basic problem is "what shall I do if an error happens in the call of a callback function", and more severe, what happens if it is a lua_jailbreak_exeption
20120320 00:08:07< Crab_> anonymissimus: can you remind me in a few words about the 'add callback' topic?
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20120320 00:10:21< anonymissimus> Crab_: there is/was a problem if we need "scoped wml variables" or similar in lua code
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20120320 00:11:22< anonymissimus> since in lua code we don't have destructors which can make sure that a wml variable is set back to its previous state even if helper.wml_error is called (or another exception is thrown)
20120320 00:12:33< anonymissimus> so you suggested to me the possibility to add wesnoth.add_callback/wesnoth.remove_callback functions which allow to define functions which are automatically called in case of an error
20120320 00:13:08< anonymissimus> so a lua-implemented tag can be sure that his cleanup code is called no matter what
20120320 00:13:10-!- akzfowl_ is now known as akzfowl
20120320 00:13:12< Crab_> and, if we use a callback to emulate a destructor, then, if exceptions happens in the callback and another exception happens during the callback, we're free to just terminate wesnoth :)
20120320 00:14:18< anonymissimus> let it crash or what ?
20120320 00:14:31< Crab_> no, we can cleanly terminate
20120320 00:15:23< anonymissimus> here's what I did: http://pastebin.com/G3MMpptW
20120320 00:15:54< anonymissimus> this features the problem that in case of a lua jailbreak exception the stacked cleanup functions aren't called
20120320 00:16:51< anonymissimus> the only jailbreak exception I know is the VALIDATE macro's twmlexception, which forces a scenario quit anyway, and in turn detroys the lua state anyway, so it's currently not very important
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20120320 00:21:31< Crab_> anonymissimus: check http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1526828
20120320 00:22:21< Crab_> the result of execution is "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'char const*' Aborted"
20120320 00:22:49< Crab_> and, it's actually what the standard says - if we throw in a destructor during stack unwind for another exception.
20120320 00:24:50< Crab_> so, the callback is actually not expected to throw - as it would only set the WML variables, which shouldn't fail.
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20120320 00:25:19< Crab_> but, since we only mess with WML vars and lua state, terminating up to the point where we lose both is good enough.
20120320 00:26:05< Crab_> but, even quitting wesnoth in this case is reasonable from the PoV 'we're emulating a destructor'
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20120320 00:32:41< anonymissimus> not from the PoV of a wml author who's just learning his first scripting language
20120320 00:33:05< anonymissimus> and knows nothing about destructors etc
20120320 00:33:27< anonymissimus> and I don't know what someone may call in his callback function
20120320 00:33:47< anonymissimus> in the cases currently in mainline it'd be limited to setting wml vars
20120320 00:35:43< gabba> General question: Wesnoth doesn't have any tooltips. I'd like to maybe add tooltips to the whiteboard to the whiteboard to visualize what attacks are planned. Am I evil?
20120320 00:36:08< anonymissimus> and of course if I just call a nil value and such I like to get an error message about it instead of destroying the lua state
20120320 00:36:27< gabba> s/to the whiteboard to the whiteboard/to the whiteboard/ :P
20120320 00:36:55< anonymissimus> "doesn't have any tooltips" why ?
20120320 00:37:22< anonymissimus> probably not the ones you envision
20120320 00:37:27< gabba> well, did you ever see tooltips in wesnoth, at least over the map?
20120320 00:37:54< Crab_> anonymissimus: well, then, can we limit register_wml_callback to scoped variables?
20120320 00:37:59< gabba> I'm just wondering if it's because of a design decision
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20120320 00:41:18< anonymissimus> Crab_: limit somehow the things users are allowed to put into the callback function ? I dont think so
20120320 00:41:49< anonymissimus> or at least it's be complicated
20120320 00:41:58< Crab_> well, we can make two callback mechanisms
20120320 00:42:04< Crab_> one for scoped wml variables
20120320 00:42:16< Crab_> and another for user-defined stuff
20120320 00:42:30< Crab_> and relax some assumptions for the user-defined stuff
20120320 00:42:53< anonymissimus> too complicated to have several I think
20120320 00:43:29< Crab_> well, if callback stack fails to execute, it can introduce later bugs
20120320 00:44:13< Crab_> so, terminating the scenario if we have an exception raised from the callback stack IF we're processing another exception at the moment looks the only safe route
20120320 00:45:50< anonymissimus> I can't even check that safely "do we have an exception raised from the callback stack", since lua_pcall catches and stores jailbreak exceptions
20120320 00:46:14< Crab_> well, the code which 'catches and stores' can do it
20120320 00:46:32< anonymissimus> so it could store a jailbreak exception while another one is already stored
20120320 00:47:04< Crab_> it can expose some API to prevent further callbacks from being run, as well.
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20120320 00:48:18< gabba1> Ok, answering my own question, turns out I am wrong. Wesnoth does have tooltips for the top bar (gold, etc), as well as some hint text that appears at the bottom of the screen for stuff in the options menu. Otherwise for units, the sidebar acts as the "tooltip" as of now.
20120320 00:48:40< gabba1> Not sure if that leaves any room to display a planned attack somewhere without causing clutter.
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20120320 00:55:53< JaMiT> anonymissimus (or anyone who is interested): I had an idea for new WML keys related to fog/shroud.
20120320 00:56:11< JaMiT> Want to take a look? I pasted a description at http://pastebin.com/PXnDS8aE
20120320 00:57:39< JaMiT> (These are in response to the desire to refog everything in the middle of a turn.)
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20120320 01:03:33< anonymissimus> JaMiT: since you worked with the pathfinder; do you think that it is limited to units being on board of the current map ?
20120320 01:05:51< anonymissimus> or could it work with just any unit_map and the locations the units in it have
20120320 01:05:51< JaMiT> You mean pathfinding like how far a unit can move in X turns?
20120320 01:06:09< anonymissimus> for instance, but not limited to that
20120320 01:08:01< anonymissimus> Crab_: ok well, is the callback topic finished ?
20120320 01:08:25< Crab_> anonymissimus: well, little to add
20120320 01:08:51< Crab_> anonymissimus: basicly, I'd say that for now, a simple approach would work since we don't have that much jailbreak exceptions.
20120320 01:09:05< anonymissimus> I think I add some "if we have a lua_jailbreak_exception, clean teh stack of callbacks (but don't call them) functionality"
20120320 01:09:19< Crab_> anonymissimus: I think it's not good
20120320 01:09:37< anonymissimus> since calling could raise another exception, and a jailbreak one in the worst case
20120320 01:09:37< Crab_> anonymissimus: imagine a new jailbreak exception is added which doesn't terminate scenario
20120320 01:09:52< Crab_> anonymissimus: and imagine that it happens, and some callback is not called
20120320 01:10:04< JaMiT> anonymissimus: Well, if finding paths with units blocking movement, it assumes those units are in the current obn-board unit_map.
20120320 01:10:20< Crab_> anonymissimus: and then, ten turns later, we'll have a "should not ever happen" situation. tracking it back to original location where callback was not called would be a mess.
20120320 01:10:22< anonymissimus> yes, thats bad then, since the lua code didn't clean up, may cause bugs
20120320 01:10:24< Crab_> anonymissimus: so, I'd fail early.
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20120320 01:11:10< JaMiT> anonymissimus: but as for the unit being checked, it could be any unit.
20120320 01:11:15< Crab_> one solution would be to 'wrap' a jailbreak exception into another jailbreak exception which is guaranteed to terminate a scenario
20120320 01:11:52< Crab_> and somehow prevent extra callbacks from being run if the scenario is going to terminate anyway
20120320 01:12:40< anonymissimus> JaMiT: but it gets passed the unit_map; does it anywhere refer to resources::units directly ?
20120320 01:13:14< JaMiT> No. The find_routes() function ignores that parameter currently.
20120320 01:13:17< anonymissimus> Crab_: so what do I do ? keep the whole idea private as some plaground = xD
20120320 01:13:34< Crab_> anonymissimus: why not commit it to mainline?
20120320 01:13:59< anonymissimus> what I pastbinned can't go
20120320 01:14:10< JaMiT> anonymissimus: There is a direct reference to resources::units, but it is about two calls deep into unit.cpp, when looking for visible units.
20120320 01:14:12< Crab_> anonymissimus: i.e., scoped wml variables look like a good idea to me. just define what the scopes are (turn, side turn, event, scenario, etc)
20120320 01:16:29< anonymissimus> JaMiT: ok thx...I had some idea about enabling the lua coder to set up a completely private unit_map, which could be passed to the pathfinder functions; this would be useful for the lua Ai calculations and such
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20120320 01:19:22< anonymissimus> Crab_: I don't understand your last sentence I think
20120320 01:20:41< Crab_> anonymissimus: I tried to say (1) don't keep this idea private, it looks great to me, why not implement it?
20120320 01:21:49< anonymissimus> I pastebinned my implementation so far...
20120320 01:21:50< Crab_> anonymissimus: and (2) if we want to implement 'scoped' wml variables, it would be good to define a list of scopes, to avoid problems if we want to add different scopes later.
20120320 01:22:13< anonymissimus> and we gave scoped wml variables in C++ already, juts not in lua tags
20120320 01:22:30< anonymissimus> the sopes are their events
20120320 01:22:38< Crab_> yes, in C++ that's easy. sorry, hasn't looked at the pastebin yet
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20120320 01:23:03< anonymissimus> such as unit, second_unit
20120320 01:24:27< Crab_> ok, I see
20120320 01:25:17< Crab_> with current approach, we would only have problems if tlua_jailbreak_exception::rethrow(); would not lead to scenario being over.
20120320 01:25:29< anonymissimus> yes
20120320 01:25:40< anonymissimus> that is a problem in my current code
20120320 01:26:09< anonymissimus> I could also document that a jailbreak exception is supposed to quit the scenario...
20120320 01:26:27< Crab_> we can enforce it by wrapping, or document
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20120320 01:28:20< Crab_> but, it'd be a limitation...
20120320 01:28:51< Crab_> because, actually, we only need to quit on jailbreak exception if we have callbacks set
20120320 01:29:02< Crab_> but, it's ok for me
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20120320 01:31:50< anonymissimus> as long as a jailbreak exception makes somehow clear that something bad happened it should be fine
20120320 01:32:23< Crab_> yes
20120320 01:32:33< anonymissimus> further bugs dont matter much
20120320 01:32:43< anonymissimus> caused by it
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20120320 02:10:34< abecker> Hi, I found this through the Google Summer of Code program, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me out.
20120320 02:11:01< Espreon> Hello. What do you need help with?
20120320 02:11:19< abecker> I'm completely new to almost everything.
20120320 02:11:38< abecker> I just downloaded this client, hadn't heard of IRC before
20120320 02:12:00< Espreon> Well, I'd recommend becoming familiar with the game and its codebase.
20120320 02:12:08-!- meow27 [~flamehawk@ool-4a5ae466.dyn.optonline.net] has left #wesnoth-dev ["Leaving"]
20120320 02:12:10< abecker> So any advice you could give on "manners" or anything, would be great
20120320 02:12:19< Espreon> Hmmm...
20120320 02:13:09< Espreon> I can't really think of anything non-obvious at the moment.
20120320 02:13:20< abecker> Also, is there a way to private message people in the chat room?
20120320 02:13:29< Espreon> abecker: Have you read the list of ideas?
20120320 02:13:29< abecker> The site lists specific mentors for different ideas
20120320 02:13:33< abecker> yes
20120320 02:13:40< shadowm> Yes, but we'd prefer that you don't use it unless you really need to speak with someone in private.
20120320 02:13:45< abecker> okay
20120320 02:14:11< Espreon> If you really need to: "/query <username>" (no brackets in actual use)
20120320 02:14:19< shadowm> That is, public conversations are logged and thus can be read by other possibly relevant people now or in the future.
20120320 02:14:34< abecker> that makes sense
20120320 02:15:19< JaMiT> Start a line with someone's name to (maybe) get their attention?
20120320 02:15:41< abecker> Here's my position: I'm a second semester freshman thinking of majoring in computer science, and I heard about the summer of code
20120320 02:15:44< shadowm> Now, if you are looking for help with IRC, your client's documentation is usually the first place to look at. Then there's the IRC network (freenode)'s documentation [http://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml] and http://irchelp.org, albeit outdated, is still a useful resource in the general case.
20120320 02:16:16< abecker> I don't have much experience coding outside of class, and I would like to know if this is a terrible place for me to start, or if it makes sense
20120320 02:17:25< abecker> I'm not sure who would be able to answer this, but I'd like to know what skills are absolutely necessary for me to have before I start, and what I could learn as I go
20120320 02:18:12< shadowm> In that case, it might be a good idea to get familiarized with Wesnoth's codebase first, presumably by implementing a trivial feature request or coming up with your own.
20120320 02:18:48< shadowm> It's also important that you know the language(s) you will have to use (C++, and optionally Lua depending on the particular area).
20120320 02:19:47< Espreon> abecker: Here's a list of "easy to implement" ideas: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding
20120320 02:20:56< abecker> So far, I've only coded in Java for classes, and I'm just learning Haskell this semester. How well would I need to know C++ and Lua to legitimately work on projects?
20120320 02:21:50< shadowm> C++: a lot; Lua: varies, since not all of the proposed GSoC projects use it at all
20120320 02:22:31< shadowm> I personally learned C++ first and never finished learning Java, so I don't know how well they translate to each other beyond the vbasics
20120320 02:23:26< Nephro> I think that Lua is used mostly in the AI projects, but I might be wrong
20120320 02:23:48< Espreon> abecker: Perhaps you'll find these helpful: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/HackingWesnoth ... http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards
20120320 02:24:43< Nephro> The particle engine project would require knowledge of Lua also
20120320 02:28:35< abecker> I've really only done basic projects in school, and I don't know where to begin on something larger. If I wanted to try to do one of the "Easy" ideas, what's the best place to start?
20120320 02:29:36< Espreon> Read about them, find the relevant parts of the engine to work on, and begin.
20120320 02:34:06< gabba> Second GSoC idea for the whiteboard added: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#Whiteboard:_Multiple_Chance-to-kill_calculations_and_interface_polish
20120320 02:34:54< Gambit> Finding the relevant part of the code is so much harder than actually doing whatever it is you want to do :<
20120320 02:35:07< Espreon> Ha ha. This is true.
20120320 02:37:09< shadowm> Not entirely true if you can gather some hints.
20120320 02:37:31< Gambit> Asking for help and lots and lots of grep :D
20120320 02:37:38< shadowm> For example, when there are UI elements involved, you can search for the relevant strings, and backtrack from there as required.
20120320 02:37:56< shadowm> Same goes for WML attribute or node names or Lua function names.
20120320 02:38:47< abecker> So I downloaded the source code from the website, but I don't know what to do with it. Maybe the fact that I'm asking these questions means that I'm not ready for this sort of thing yet, but I'd rather start learning now than later. How do I find where things are within the code?
20120320 02:40:25< Gambit> Well before you even think about programming, you should learn how to compile your downloaded source
20120320 02:40:37< Gambit> The difficulty there varies by operating system.
20120320 02:41:13< Gambit> (In reverse order of user-friendlyness stereotypes, interestingly)
20120320 02:41:40< abecker> I'm on a Mac :P
20120320 02:41:54< shadowm> Espreon: After much procrastination, I have written the preliminary Add-ons section for the Help. It's not pretty, but there's only so much I can do without smashing my cranium on the keyboard and leaving a mess on the poor thing. What do you think about committing it and then fixing it yourself as required?
20120320 02:42:17< Gambit> This is probably up to date: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnMacOSX
20120320 02:43:02< Gambit> It's funny really. Compiling Wesnoth on Linux ~= 5 commands.
20120320 02:43:06< Gambit> But Windows users have to make a day of it.
20120320 02:43:15< shadowm> Espreon: Or at least spamming me with feedback until I have no choice but to comply with your renowned high requirements.
20120320 02:44:05< shadowm> Although let me get this straight first: my primary concern here isn't typography, but usability and message coherence.
20120320 02:45:03< Espreon> shadowm: As I said before, I'd be glad to help.
20120320 02:45:23< shadowm> Still I find myself here in an uncomfortable position because someone else should be doing this, not me. I'm stuck with this terrible task because I'm the only one who cares. ¬_¬
20120320 02:45:37< shadowm> Great then, let me prepare the glue then.
20120320 02:45:45< Espreon> That's pretty much the case with everything around here...
20120320 02:46:51< Gambit> *the initial setup + first compile
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20120320 02:49:03< Espreon> shadowm: Hmmmm, I might actually prefer the "spam comments till you get it right" approach since it allows me to be the lazy sack of crap I am, but I dunno.
20120320 02:49:37< shadowm> I thought you were just complaining about laziness.
20120320 02:49:42< shadowm> What's with the double standard? :p
20120320 02:50:02< Espreon> Ha ha. As long as I don't have to do it... XYZ.
20120320 02:50:04< Espreon> IDK LOL
20120320 02:50:33< Espreon> shadowm: Pick the approach you prefer.
20120320 02:50:54< Espreon> I'll somehow make time for it.
20120320 02:51:59< shadowm> I'm sure we have plenty of time for either one.
20120320 02:52:09< Espreon> All right.
20120320 02:52:42< Espreon> Hopefully, if we go with the other approach, Ivanovic won't swoop in with a pot-update...
20120320 02:52:46< Espreon> ... before I can intervene.
20120320 02:52:50< Espreon> ... and fix stuf.
20120320 02:52:52< Espreon> *stuff.
20120320 02:53:22< shadowm> 1.11.0 cannot happen until the new add-ons server stuff is in the works
20120320 02:53:45< shadowm> and anyway I'm blocking 1.11.0 myself, and by tradition it shouldn't happen until two or three months after the first stable release anyway
20120320 02:54:23< Espreon> I love it when we block stuff.
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20120320 02:55:05< ejls> gabba: I'm interested in the backend refactoring idea. Is there any pre-GSoC task I could do to familiarise myself with the wb code?
20120320 02:55:23< shadowm> Espreon: that is, I'm blocking it with the dependency tiers task
20120320 02:55:35< Espreon> Delicious.
20120320 02:55:49< gabba> Hi ejls
20120320 02:56:03< ejls> Hi ;)
20120320 02:56:06< shadowm> now just how does this help summoning thing work
20120320 02:56:35< shadowm> "Help browser tried to show topic with id '..addons' but that topic could not be found."
20120320 02:56:35< gabba> ejls: I don't have any tasks for the whiteboard listed under EasyCoding on the wiki right now,
20120320 02:56:36< Espreon> abecker: I believe there's some README somewhere for compiling Wesnoth on Mac OS X... or at least on the fora.
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20120320 02:57:24< gabba> ejls: however, if you look at both whiteboard GSoC ideas and at the whiteboard bugs list, I'm sure you can find something
20120320 02:57:27< Espreon> abecker: ... somewhere in this thread: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=287
20120320 02:57:52< abecker> Mhm, Gambit gave me a link. The only thing I can't find is MacOS X Compile.
20120320 02:57:58< Espreon> abecker: If you can't get it to work, pester Alarantalara once he shows up.
20120320 02:58:03< Espreon> I see.
20120320 02:58:23< abecker> The guide says that it's contained in binaries built by Sithrandel
20120320 02:58:54< ejls> gabba: Ok, thank, I also looked at your (long) 2010 proposal, but it 
20120320 02:58:55< Gambit> The guide may be out of date
20120320 02:58:59< Gambit> I don't know
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20120320 02:59:09< shadowm> abecker: if you are on Mac OS X Lion you might have to solve a bug along the way; I believe no-one has been able to build a working Wesnoth binary there yet
20120320 02:59:13< ejls> it looks like not a good start*.
20120320 02:59:18< Espreon> abecker: There's a more current guide in that thread.
20120320 02:59:21< abecker> ugh.
20120320 02:59:28< gabba> ejls: no, you're likely to get utterly confused by reading that :P
20120320 02:59:28< abecker> okay, I'll take a look at it.
20120320 02:59:36< Espreon> Probably near the end.
20120320 03:00:23< gabba> ejls: much better to fire up the game and play around with the whiteboard ("Toggle planning mode" in the context menu activates it)
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20120320 03:00:56< abecker> Espreon: the guide you sent linked me to is the one that I was looking at
20120320 03:01:00< ejls> gabba: Ahah, ok. I'm already using the wb when playing. I'll take a look at the bug list then. :)
20120320 03:01:58< shadowm> if anyone knows how [open_help] works in principle, I could use that information
20120320 03:02:11< gabba> ejls: good! Then just ask me questions as they come while reading the source code. I think the structure of the whiteboard is pretty simple in most places, but then, I wrote most of it so I'm biased.
20120320 03:02:16< shadowm> and the wiki could also use it
20120320 03:02:41< ejls> gabba: ok, thank!
20120320 03:05:11< Espreon> abecker: Blargh... I guess you'll have to wait for Alarantalara... or maybe vultraz.
20120320 03:05:27< Espreon> I dunno.
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20120320 03:05:59< abecker> Alright, thank you.
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20120320 03:07:34< Espreon> Yup.
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20120320 03:50:00< shadowm> Espreon: I givbe up. I'll just commit the WML and deal with the C++ later.
20120320 03:52:24< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53561 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: 
20120320 03:52:25< CIA-69> Add 'Add-ons' help section, dealing with add-on types and usage of the manager
20120320 03:52:25< CIA-69> Remaining items to do with this:
20120320 03:52:25< CIA-69> * Add a quick explanation about uninstalling add-ons
20120320 03:52:25< CIA-69> * Review for style/content/helpfulness
20120320 03:52:25< CIA-69> * Implement a Help button in the manager (this somehow breaks
20120320 03:52:26< CIA-69> spectacularly atm, hence not committed)
20120320 03:52:30< shadowm> of course that doesn't mean you can't read it in-game atm; it's just that there's not an easy way to access it from the manager right now
20120320 03:52:42< shadowm> or a hard way beyond going back to the titlescreen, for that matter
20120320 03:55:11< gabba> leaving, see y'all later
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20120320 03:57:42< Espreon> shadowm: OK, I'll read it tomorrow.
20120320 03:58:44< shadowm> isn't that what you told me yesterday bout the AtS E3 outline?
20120320 03:59:19< Espreon> Uh... I don't remember.
20120320 03:59:25< Espreon> Did I say that?
20120320 04:00:25< shadowm> let's switch back to that channel
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20120320 05:33:19< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53562 /trunk/src/game.cpp: 
20120320 05:33:19< CIA-69> Create a new instance of the help::help_manager class before entering the Add-ons Manager path
20120320 05:33:19< CIA-69> This is the only way the Help button in the add-ons manager will work.
20120320 05:33:19< CIA-69> Something here reeks of broken design, but since the help system is not
20120320 05:33:19< CIA-69> my business I may as well use a workaround for now.
20120320 05:33:27< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53563 /trunk/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp: addon/mg: Add a Help button to the Add-ons Manager dialog
20120320 05:34:06< shadowm> (names
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20120320 05:41:03< shadowm> fendrin: I'm going to play the Captain Obvious role here just in case, since sometimes it's impossible to tell... you are fully aware of the terrain editor palette glitch when the editor first starts rendering its background solid black, right?
20120320 05:41:27< shadowm> and that a window resize (???) is required to un-glitch it?
20120320 05:42:13< shadowm> editor... terrain palette
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20120320 06:01:17< shadowm> vultraz: remind me what your gui2/taddon_connect proposal consisted of.
20120320 06:19:11< vultraz> shadowm: um...what exactly do you mean
20120320 06:19:26< vultraz> you mean my update to the dialog?
20120320 06:21:54< shadowm> proposed layout changes to the dialog, obviously
20120320 06:21:58< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53564 /trunk/src/addon/ (manager_ui.cpp state.cpp state.hpp): 
20120320 06:21:58< CIA-69> addon/mg: Ridiculously quick and ugly proof-of-concept for color-keyed add-on display
20120320 06:21:58< CIA-69> Let's see how long until I either decide this sucks and needs to be
20120320 06:21:58< CIA-69> reverted, or this rocks and needs to be adequately refactored.
20120320 06:22:35< shadowm> bummer, I exposed a bug in the process
20120320 06:22:57< shadowm> amazing
20120320 06:24:15< shadowm> and it doesn't seem to be in my code
20120320 06:24:53< vultraz> well...I need to redo it since you removed the update addons button
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20120320 06:25:16< shadowm> actually I can't tell where it is. As things look right now the bug would have to be in libc's stat() function, which is a ridiculous notion
20120320 06:25:54< shadowm> vultraz: yeah, but I don't want a patch. I want to know the overall idea.
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20120320 06:32:47< vultraz> shadowm: well.. this is what it looked like: http://imagebin.org/204325
20120320 06:33:22< shadowm> okay, the Connect button to the right of the primary element like in a browser's address bar...
20120320 06:33:50< shadowm> not quite sure what to do with the Remove option; not to mention that I want to make the publish/remote-delete crap use a separate UI
20120320 06:36:03< shadowm> unrelated: http://shadowm.rewound.net/f/amazing-unexplained-color-keyed-addons.png
20120320 06:37:45< shadowm> it looks like it might be possible to do this with color _backgrounds_ instead, but then I might need to reimplement parts of a pesky GUI1 class and I feel like there are better ways to spend my time than playing the GUI1 maintainer's heir role here
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20120320 06:46:08< vultraz> shadowm: just wondering, but what's wrong with the addon list ver accessed via --new-widgets?
20120320 06:46:24< vultraz> I mean, why can't that one replace the current GUI1 one
20120320 06:47:10< shadowm> because I killed it already
20120320 06:47:28< shadowm> for the love of god, I've explained the problems at least a hundred times in my channel
20120320 06:48:13< shadowm> no server-side (read: widget) listbox sorting, no server-side (read: widget) listbox filtering
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20120320 06:50:04< shadowm> moving it to GUI2 provides me with absolutely no benefits and yet, extra wheels to reinvent. Do the math.
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20120320 06:50:50< shadowm> from what I've seen GUI2 can also take really silly layout decisions, and from what I've been told, I'm not supposed to fix that
20120320 06:51:45< shadowm> so unless I'll get benefits (i.e. tabs, which are inexistent in GUI2, or composite list rows, which are ridiculously glitchy), it's just a worthless path to take
20120320 06:52:31< shadowm> also note that this is the last time I explain this all to you
20120320 06:53:21< vultraz> 'k
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20120320 08:15:14< CIA-69> ivanovic * r53566 /branches/1.10/po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): updated Galician translation
20120320 08:15:18< CIA-69> ivanovic * r53565 /trunk/po/ (9 files in 9 dirs): updated Galician translation
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20120320 08:42:06< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53567 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/addon_connect.cpp: gui2/taddon_connect: Update wiki documentation
20120320 08:44:08< vultraz> fendrin: um..I'm trying to move the editor tools into a more logical grouping, but I get this: http://imagebin.org/204330
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20120320 08:44:28< vultraz> fendrin: http://pastebin.com/aXb10Uv9
20120320 08:44:53< vultraz> (the village button even get drawn on the other side of teh screen)
20120320 08:44:59< vultraz> anyway, I'll be back later
20120320 08:47:16< shadowm> Crab_: what's the fourth row (actions) in the gamestate inspector for?
20120320 08:47:24< shadowm> I mean fourth column, argh
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20120320 08:48:58< fendrin> vultraz: okay, just ping when you arrive again
20120320 08:49:11< shadowm> fendrin: hi
20120320 08:49:43< shadowm> well, I guess I can see three commented out options. Either way I'd like to know whether I can safely pretend they don't exist to try to tidy up this dialog a bit.
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20120320 09:11:42< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53568 /trunk/data/core/images/misc/schedule-underground.png: (log message trimmed)
20120320 09:11:43< CIA-69> Replace non-standard Underground ToD schedule picture (125x38) with an upscaled version of the correct size (125x39), provided in bug #19415
20120320 09:11:43< CIA-69> This solution seems sensible for reasons stated in the bug report. I
20120320 09:11:43< CIA-69> normally dislike upscaling graphics, but in this case the original is
20120320 09:11:43< CIA-69> crappy enough (it even appears to have JPEG artifacts?) and the
20120320 09:11:43< CIA-69> difference barely noticeable to the human eye.
20120320 09:11:44< CIA-69> Since this kind of changes can apparently break add-ons nowadays, this
20120320 09:24:40< fendrin> hi shadowm
20120320 09:24:59< fendrin> shadowm: Did you notice that the minimap fails to adjust size in both, game and editor?
20120320 09:25:33< fendrin> At least when the engine switches between different gui layouts.
20120320 09:26:01< shadowm> GUI layouts, no. Fullscreen/windowed, yes, but that's not the accurate description of the issue. 
20120320 09:26:42< shadowm> Or at least not in-game, as opposed to in-editor; it'll eventually adjust to the new resolution after a certain amount of time has passed.
20120320 09:26:48< fendrin> gui layouts == different sidebar images depending on resolution == fullscreen/windowed
20120320 09:27:51< fendrin> Okay, I will ignore the bug for now since it seems to be not related to my work. Do you know if there is a bug report?
20120320 09:28:10< shadowm> Okay, it's not really a function of time, but rather how long until the minimap gets refreshed by a moving unit.
20120320 09:28:17< shadowm> But no, I haven't reported mine.
20120320 09:29:01< fendrin> At the editor side it is a painting event that redraws the map.
20120320 09:29:13< fendrin> I am quite sure it is the same bug.
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20120320 10:40:24< CIA-69> fendrin * r53569 /trunk/data/core/images/editor/ (5 files): New set of editor brush images by vultraz.
20120320 10:42:07< CIA-69> fendrin * r53570 /trunk/src/reports.cpp: Commented out an unused report generator.
20120320 10:47:11< Crab_> shadowm: they do nothing now. I thought that I might add support for changing stuff like 'edit variable' or 'fire event'
20120320 10:47:59< Crab_> shadowm: btw, what's the problem with mac os lion? I've recently got access to a mac os lion laptop, and I can take a look at what's going on there.
20120320 10:48:28< Crab_> shadowm: so, for those 'actions', feel free to tidy it up as you want.
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20120320 11:34:19< vultraz> fendrin: *ping* I'm back
20120320 11:51:39< fendrin> vultraz: Those items are arranged relative to each other. Thus I suggest you keep the structure but just change the contents which define what the button does , name and icon but keep the rest in place.
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20120320 12:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 170 bugs, 330 feature requests, 12 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120320 13:07:50< vultraz> fendrin: still fails http://imagebin.org/204366
20120320 13:07:53< vultraz> :S
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20120320 13:16:16< fendrin> vultraz: Restore the old file. Then just play with the image path to see how it looks. You do not need to change anything else.
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20120320 13:34:39< vultraz> fendrin: even updating just the images results in problems for the last two rows O_O
20120320 13:35:54< vultraz> ohwait
20120320 13:36:44< vultraz> fixed it
20120320 13:38:44< vultraz> fendrin: http://imagebin.org/204371
20120320 13:38:58< vultraz> that's my layout idea
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20120320 13:39:55< vultraz> fendrin: row 1 is drawing tools
20120320 13:40:17< vultraz> row 2 is unit/label/items/village/soundsource
20120320 13:40:49< vultraz> row 3 is general tools for modifying the map
20120320 13:41:42< vultraz> row 4 is tools that used for fixing changes/viewing that map
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20120320 14:18:35< Alarantalara> Crab_: regarding Lion: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36208
20120320 14:18:39< vultraz> fendrin: hum...seems the mountain terrain is selected as the secondary terrain and grass as secondary.
20120320 14:18:51< vultraz> (at startup)
20120320 14:18:57< vultraz> used to be the other way around
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20120320 14:19:50< Alarantalara> Requires compiling using the Lion tool chain, versions compiled on 10.6 will run on 10.7
20120320 14:21:57< vultraz> I wonder how they were able to get into the game, while my builds crash before the titlescreen
20120320 14:28:21< vultraz> funny thing is, sometimes it's a string disposal error, sometimes a string assignment error
20120320 14:28:23< vultraz> like
20120320 14:28:25< vultraz> 0x9c521bab std::string::assign(std::string const&) + 105
20120320 14:30:16< Crab_> Alarantalara: thanks
20120320 14:31:36< Crab_> Alarantalara: I'll try to compile it on 10.7, then.
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20120320 14:52:07< fendrin> vultraz: I think I shall make it rotating. Or depending on certain star constellations
20120320 14:54:28< Crab_> Nephro: around?
20120320 15:05:11< TorminaTor> heya, Crab_, could you mark my wesnoth-forum account as a GSoC Student account?
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20120320 15:13:01< Crab_> TorminaTor: will do
20120320 15:13:38< TorminaTor> thanks :)
20120320 15:13:41< Crab_> TorminaTor: done
20120320 15:13:46< Crab_> enjoy :0
20120320 15:13:47< fendrin> zookeeper: You maintain SotBE?
20120320 15:14:15< Crab_> TorminaTor: anything else I can help you with?
20120320 15:15:19< TorminaTor> at the moment? nah. I am filling out the questionnaire.
20120320 15:15:28< zookeeper> fendrin, yes
20120320 15:19:28< fendrin> zookeeper: What do you think about using this art http://units.wesnoth.org/trunk/Great_Legend_Era/en_US/Orcish%20Shaman.html instead of the outdated current one?
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20120320 15:21:37< zookeeper> fendrin, no objections, if someone does the work.
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20120320 15:51:17< vultraz> fendrin: um..what?
20120320 15:51:23< vultraz> rotation what
20120320 15:51:33< vultraz> *confused*
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20120320 16:00:06< TorminaTor> Crab_, I would like to make a proposal for teaching the AI to play the campaign. How should I name the Student page?
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20120320 16:01:08< anonymissimus> Crab_: how much of a problem is it if something gets pushed onto the stack which lua uses to communicate with the lua scripts, and later not popped again from this stack but remains there, due to a jailbreak exception being thrown out of luaW_pcall ?
20120320 16:01:51< anonymissimus> I once fixed some bug where obviously some memory corruption occured for the opposite case (something popped which was never there)
20120320 16:03:10< anonymissimus> many such situations may happen already in the current code
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20120320 16:13:51< Crab_> TorminaTor: the name of the student page is not very important, usually something like "SoC2012_TorminaTor_AI_Campaigns" would be nice 
20120320 16:13:53< Crab_> (i.e. include your nickname and some words about the project)
20120320 16:14:13< Crab_> anonymissimus: a small memory leak, I'd say.
20120320 16:14:22< TorminaTor> thanks again
20120320 16:14:29< Crab_> anonymissimus: (and yes, opposite case is evil)
20120320 16:15:15< Crab_> anonymissimus: where this might happen?
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20120320 16:17:17< anonymissimus> Crab_: well, whenever a jailbreak exception happens to be thrown due to some path a lua script called
20120320 16:17:55< anonymissimus> or in most of those cases; the functions the lua script called usually still have some things to pop after their calls to luaW_pcall
20120320 16:21:05< Crab_> I see. we need to check what lua does and what it does not, when it catches the exception.
20120320 16:21:51< Crab_> if the stack is not cleared, it means that we leak a part of it
20120320 16:25:25< anonymissimus> well, I think I do not like this jailbreak exception and exceptions in general
20120320 16:25:34< anonymissimus> it complicates things
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20120320 16:28:11< anonymissimus> IIRC in java the compiler enforces the throws declaration in a functions signature if it can throw this or that exception, and it enforces either a try/catch block or a throws declaration in all callers so such thing can never be overlooked
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20120320 16:30:15< Crab_> anonymissimus: well, it has it's own share of problems)
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20120320 16:54:57< TorminaTor> For all who care about it: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2012_TorminaTor_AI_Campaigns
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20120320 17:09:08< Crab_> TorminaTor: looking...
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20120320 17:14:11< Crab_> TorminaTor: ok, looks good so far. An important next step would be to compile wesnoth (ask for help with that, if necessary), and try to fix a bug or two, or implement something small.
20120320 17:14:30< Crab_> TorminaTor: having 1-2 patches in would heavily improve your chances of being accepted.
20120320 17:14:47< Crab_> that'll also be an opportunity to learn how Wesnoth AI works currently.
20120320 17:16:38-!- filmor [~bs@xdsl-78-35-216-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20120320 17:20:28< Crab_> a good starting point would be the work of mattsc (on wesnoth's forums) - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=523961#p523961
20120320 17:21:01 * TorminaTor does it old-school and doesn't use portage to compile Wesnoth
20120320 17:22:26< Crab_> TorminaTor: note that it's best to compile the latest version from svn.
20120320 17:22:56< TorminaTor> yeah, I am already making a checkout
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20120320 17:29:18< Crab_> ok
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20120320 18:28:56< Ivanovic> hi
20120320 18:30:55< vultraz> hey
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20120320 18:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 170 bugs, 330 feature requests, 13 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120320 18:52:52< shadowm> Crab_: you might want to ask vultraz. I don't even use Mac OS X, but I've heard people on Lion only get builds that crash at the titlescreen or elsewhere, seemingly because of memory corruption
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20120320 19:17:49< Guest4718> [/name] iulian
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20120320 19:28:32< Crab_> shadowm: ok, thanks. I've got a link to forum post already
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20120320 20:02:56< shadowm> fendrin: the black border around the brush size buttons isn't useful anymore and only makes them look ugly
20120320 20:03:39< shadowm> the red border should also be replaced with pressed buttons given this new direction
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20120320 20:36:23< Knickerless> Hey, I'm a potential GSoC applicant
20120320 20:36:46< Knickerless> The ideas wiki page mentioned I should hop on the irc channel
20120320 20:37:01< noy> you're on the right path Knickerless 
20120320 20:37:19< Knickerless> Heh, thanks
20120320 20:37:23< Knickerless> I was interested in doing one of the projects suggested by the developers
20120320 20:37:38< noy> you're now definitely on the right path
20120320 20:38:02< Knickerless> Specifically the total defense AI
20120320 20:38:25< Knickerless> I PM'ed Crab_ but it seems he's away so I decided to talk here
20120320 20:39:18< Knickerless> I haven't played Wesnoth in years, so it was nice to see the project on the list
20120320 20:40:34< noy> No worries
20120320 20:40:42< noy> also consider the other ideas too
20120320 20:40:51< Knickerless> Yeah, I've been looking at the others
20120320 20:40:58< noy> as with every year, there seems to be a lot of people thinking about AI
20120320 20:41:16< noy> (not to scare you off, but there are just as good tasks with the other devs)
20120320 20:42:07< Knickerless> I was interested mostly because my University degree is in AI so I was looking for something in the same field
20120320 20:44:02< noy> well then, don't let me discourage you
20120320 20:49:01< fendrin> shadowm: Yes, you are speaking the truth. In fact what you say is obvious. But I will not touch this. Or to be more precise, when I am going to change that, it will be a gui2 thing. And it may take some time for gui2 to be ready.
20120320 20:49:51< fendrin> shadowm: So, we will need to live with a compromise in the near future. But don't feel discouraged. Every input is valuable for me.
20120320 20:51:12< Ivanovic> Knickerless: PMs are not the best way to go, best is to directly ask the questions in here also mentioning the possible mentors
20120320 20:51:24< Ivanovic> this way others can jump in and answer if they know something useful
20120320 20:51:40< Knickerless> Ivanovic: Ah, alright. I'll stick to asking in here then
20120320 20:51:59< Knickerless> noy: Not at all, the particle engine project seems quite interesting as well.
20120320 20:52:29< noy> that's a good one to look at
20120320 20:53:26< ejls> c_nevin92: You put your proposal in the wrong category. ;)
20120320 20:54:30< c_nevin92> ejls: oh thanks, i didnt realise the page updated automatically
20120320 20:56:35< iulians> hey there
20120320 20:57:38< iulians> My name is Iulian and I would like to apply to GSoC
20120320 20:59:43< iulians> I saw the ideas and I think that I could implement the total defense' strategy
20120320 21:00:44 * fendrin has this "local delete, incoming edit upon update" svn situation. How can he handle it?
20120320 21:01:07< Knickerless> Seems like a lot of people like that one :p
20120320 21:01:31< c_nevin92> indeed
20120320 21:01:33< fendrin> All this new names in IRc. It is google summer of code spring.
20120320 21:01:45< iulians> but I would like to know what means that
20120320 21:02:58< iulians> and more about project 
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20120320 21:06:22< shadowm> fendrin: then I'll revert the commit with the new images
20120320 21:08:12< fendrin> shadowm: ?
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20120320 21:09:19< shadowm> I have strived to keep our user interface consistent and clean lately so that 1.12 doesn't look like crap, and every single change in the editor lately goes against those goals.
20120320 21:10:02< noy> hello iulians 
20120320 21:10:09< fendrin> shadowm: Okay, we talk about the editor. A tool made to get work done. It needs to be functional first.
20120320 21:10:15< noy> its great that you've come on to here to discuss
20120320 21:11:08< anonymissimus> fendrin: use git, stack local changes on a private branch, rebase master branch before dcommit, merge changes from private branch into master to check whether there are/will be conflicts and solve them before dcommitting ? :P
20120320 21:11:11< shadowm> fendrin: The editor isn't used exclusively by programmers, so you can forget about having users bear with sloppy design without complaining in this case.
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20120320 21:12:05< fendrin> anonymissimus: Nice plan, thank you.
20120320 21:12:07< shadowm> Programmers prefer to have all functionality available even in a haphazard fashion. Users want something that's easy to use and looks good.
20120320 21:12:33< fendrin> Okay, go ahead.
20120320 21:12:40< anonymissimus> of course it's always annoying if someone else is too quick so that that someone else makes a new commit in the time you need to solve the conflict and said commit causes you a new conflict ;)
20120320 21:12:49< noy> I'd suggest iulians that you look at some of the other projects too
20120320 21:13:05< noy> because AI looks quite popular and there some other great ideas out there
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20120320 21:17:08< iulians> I read the ideas for  'total defense' strategy and for 'AI: teach the AI to play Wesnoth's mainline campaigns' 
20120320 21:17:21< anonymissimus> keeping the changes on a private branch as well seems also good in case that the dcommit breaks at some intermediate revision, which happens rather frequently for me
20120320 21:17:51< anonymissimus> so I have a much easier and faster time in cleaning my repo and continuing the dcommit
20120320 21:18:16< iulians> and a few hours ago there was nobody at 'total defense'
20120320 21:19:01< iulians> I think that  the two projects are quite similar
20120320 21:19:55< iulians> to defense you must retreat 
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20120320 21:21:26< mordante> servus
20120320 21:21:32< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20120320 21:21:40< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20120320 21:21:42< fendrin> hi mordante
20120320 21:21:48< mordante> hi fendrin 
20120320 21:22:36< iulians> a good algorithm for this can be the Alpha-beta pruning 
20120320 21:22:42< iulians> for the begin 
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20120320 21:23:23< Ivanovic> iulians: have you already planned wesnoth?
20120320 21:23:40< Ivanovic> there are some strange cases where "moving back" is actually *not* the best defence
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20120320 21:24:28< CIA-69> fendrin * r53571 /trunk/src/editor/toolkit/ (7 files): 
20120320 21:24:28< CIA-69> Part of the editor refactoring.
20120320 21:24:28< CIA-69> Toolkit is the class that handles everything related to what the user knows as
20120320 21:24:28< CIA-69> "editor tool".
20120320 21:25:27< mordante> anonymissimus, there might be more jail break exceptions I think end game or something simular also exists
20120320 21:25:37< zookeeper> Ivanovic, pretty standard fare i think, not "strange cases" :P
20120320 21:25:47< mordante> also please don't add special cases for certain exceptions
20120320 21:25:49< anonymissimus> mordante: there are quite a lot actually
20120320 21:26:04< mordante> I like Crab_'s idea, call std::terminate
20120320 21:26:15< anonymissimus> mordante: also many which do not need to be jailbreak ones
20120320 21:26:38< CIA-69> fendrin * r53572 /trunk/src/editor/map/ (context_manager.cpp context_manager.hpp): Everything map or map context or whatever map anything related code went there.
20120320 21:26:54< mordante> anonymissimus, depends if that code suddenly finds itself called from Lua it needs to be
20120320 21:26:59< anonymissimus> I don't think I'll commit that thing; it's too problematic and I don't understand it well enough
20120320 21:27:37< anonymissimus> well, this texception in the image class which you added recently for instance doesn't need to be since it's caught early enough
20120320 21:27:58< CIA-69> fendrin * r53573 /trunk/src/editor/action/mouse/ (4 files): Mostly code cleanups resulting from refactoring issues.
20120320 21:28:08< mordante> true but we use expections for message handling as well
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20120320 21:28:33< iulians> Ivanovic: yes, but to survive you must retreat 
20120320 21:28:40< mordante> so somebody adding an exception as a message might break things
20120320 21:29:06< Ivanovic> iulians: uhm, no
20120320 21:29:12< CIA-69> fendrin * r53574 /trunk/ (data/themes/editor.cfg src/hotkeys.cpp src/hotkeys.hpp): 
20120320 21:29:12< CIA-69> Only renaming some things.
20120320 21:29:12< CIA-69> Don't watch this commit, it's boring.
20120320 21:29:27< Ivanovic> iulians: you have to make sure that a unit you want to keep allive does not die
20120320 21:29:42< Ivanovic> this can be done by making good use of ZoC
20120320 21:29:55< Ivanovic> as well as making use of more easily defendable positions
20120320 21:30:11< iulians> you surround it with other units
20120320 21:30:14< Ivanovic> just moving won't help if you don't take the defense values into account
20120320 21:30:14< anonymissimus> ...people should better not use exceptions at all message or not....
20120320 21:30:43< anonymissimus> every jailbreak exception potentially causes a resource leak in the lua interface as I said above to crab
20120320 21:30:52< CIA-69> fendrin * r53575 /trunk/src/ (CMakeLists.txt SConscript): This commit might make Wesnoth compile again on your architecture, or not.
20120320 21:30:55< Ivanovic> that is: you have to take into account your own defense value on a terrain as well as the defense values for the enemy units on terrains the enemy can reach
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20120320 21:31:30< mordante> anonymissimus, sorry but Wesnoth has been using that for ages
20120320 21:31:59< anonymissimus> not according to what silene had said and sorry that I trust him more on that
20120320 21:32:15< shadowm> silene has been wrong about things in the past before, come on
20120320 21:32:19< CIA-69> fendrin * r53576 /trunk/src/editor/ (editor_controller.cpp editor_controller.hpp editor_main.cpp): Refactored, smaller core of the editor.
20120320 21:32:41< mordante> anonymissimus, look at the code and see how long we use exceptions to carry messages
20120320 21:32:42< shadowm> I am goddamn sure exceptions have been thrown around before that pesky lua support was shoehorned into the engine
20120320 21:32:54< mordante> no need to trust anybody, the source is out there
20120320 21:33:12< shadowm> and SVN logs
20120320 21:33:19< mordante> exactly
20120320 21:33:56< zookeeper> there's two different ways the AI should be able to defend: 1) simply minimizing the damage/casualties the opponent can inflict and 2) making it too costly for the opponent to attack
20120320 21:34:07< mordante> and I also agree with shadowm silene has been wrong in the past, especially in this area
20120320 21:34:12< zookeeper> arguably the latter is pretty much just "playing well" and not specific to defense
20120320 21:34:29< mordante> just check the ml...
20120320 21:34:55< CIA-69> fendrin * r53577 /trunk/src/editor/palette/ (4 files): New classes for different editor palettes, depending on what the tools needs.
20120320 21:35:09< iulians> I think I understand. As a first impressions does not seem too hard to implement 
20120320 21:35:21< CIA-69> fendrin * r53578 /trunk/src/editor/palette/palette_manager.cpp: Forgit it, should be inside the last commit.
20120320 21:35:46< shadowm> fendrin: how many commits remaining?
20120320 21:35:52< zookeeper> iulians, if you have an AI-related degree then should know better than to trust first impressions :>
20120320 21:35:56< zookeeper> +you
20120320 21:36:05< fendrin> shadowm: ~3
20120320 21:36:07< shadowm> since I apparently just inadvertently tried to compile in the middle of a massive breakage
20120320 21:37:06< shadowm> btw, git commit --amend allows you to fix commits missing hunks or whole files before pushing/dcommitting
20120320 21:37:22< zookeeper> iulians, so have you played wesnoth (much) before?
20120320 21:37:32< shadowm> so you can for example, git add file/I/forgot/in/the/last/commit, and then git commit --amend to add it to the last commit
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20120320 21:38:54 * mordante loves git rebase -i can rewrite the entire history before committing :-)
20120320 21:39:42< anonymissimus> yup; but it tricks one into editing it again and again without finally pushing those revisions :P
20120320 21:39:50< iulians> Today I installed for the first time. But seems that is a combination of AOK and Heroes 
20120320 21:40:45< mordante> anonymissimus, no I often use it for very experimental stuff and then later polish it into proper commits, by reordering and squash commits
20120320 21:41:19< mordante> and that in combination with git add -i and suddenly it seems development has been clean and smooth
20120320 21:42:13-!- s951 [~s951@dyn1064-176.hor.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20120320 21:43:13< shadowm> maybe I should branch from a previous good point since thiis is taking unusually long...
20120320 21:43:18< CIA-69> fendrin * r53579 /trunk/src/editor/palette/ (common_palette.hpp editor_palettes.cpp): The rest of the refactoring.
20120320 21:43:37< iulians> As long as you know the statistics for the units, you can create an unbeatable AI
20120320 21:43:42< zookeeper> iulians, okay. anyway, wesnoth is a lot more tactically deep game than it might appear at a first glance. for example mounting an effective defense needs a _lot_ _lot_ more than just individually finding good positions for each unit.
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20120320 21:43:52< fendrin> shadowm: It should compile for your now. Please try.
20120320 21:43:56< zookeeper> so, i'd suggest you start playing it as much as possible as soon as possible ;)
20120320 21:44:40< fendrin> shadowm: Wouldn't dare to keep it off from compiling for more than 15 minutes.
20120320 21:45:19< mordante> fendrin, in general don't commit if it doesn't compile, it sucks when bi-secting bugs
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20120320 21:45:57< zookeeper> iulians, no AI can be unbeatable.
20120320 21:47:02< zookeeper> luck always plays enough of a role that a good human player would always stand a chance, no matter how well the AI played. now if it really played absolutely perfectly then i'm sure it'd beat the best human players almost every time, but naturally no one's going to write a perfect AI, so...
20120320 21:47:13< loonycyborg> Human opponents are a LOT more dangerous than current AI IME :P
20120320 21:47:22< shadowm> mordante: are there known issues with the GUI2 listbox widget when all items/rows are removed?
20120320 21:47:42< noy> iulians: umm, I think you need to really play the game. Given its complexity, its nearly impossible
20120320 21:47:50< noy> to make an unbeatable AI
20120320 21:48:20< loonycyborg> You definitely should play mp with someone.
20120320 21:48:29< noy> I would also suggest that if you're unfamiliar with the game this way, that you should really consider one of the other tasks
20120320 21:48:31< zookeeper> for all intents and purposes impossible, yes. much much harder than making a perfect chess AI, and no one's made a perfect chess AI yet.
20120320 21:48:37< shadowm> a challenging AI is more useful than an unbeatable AI too
20120320 21:49:28< anonymissimus> mordante: IIRC you said something about not catching jailbreak exception, however what about this: http://pastebin.com/eYYsFxn3
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20120320 21:49:58< anonymissimus> this would be needed at many places
20120320 21:49:59< noy> iulians: generally speaking, second or third year GSOC students get the AI tasks, because they are far more familiar with their requirements and the learning curve is less steep.
20120320 21:51:43< IvanSav> Hi. I have some questions about one of GSoC projects, Addon server.
20120320 21:52:11< noy> Hi IvanSav 
20120320 21:52:20< noy> That is mordante's task I believe
20120320 21:52:36< fendrin> mordante: I see. Would have commited in one step. I was just too stupid to handle that conflict in a file I had moved.
20120320 21:52:54< shadowm> fendrin: compiled
20120320 21:53:05< fendrin> shadowm: :-)
20120320 21:53:06< shadowm> works fine? no
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20120320 21:53:31< IvanSav> ok. I'll wait for him then.
20120320 21:53:55< noy> he's around IvanSav, and others can critique your idea
20120320 21:54:05< shadowm> fendrin: for some reason when the editor first starts, although the currently visible palette is the terrain one, I get an Arch Mage thumbnail to the right of the palette group selection button
20120320 21:54:23< shadowm> it also seems to take very long to initialize the palette after the editor gamemap appears
20120320 21:54:39< fendrin> shadowm: It is waiting for you to move the mouse.
20120320 21:55:07< IvanSav> it's not an idea yet. just some general questions.
20120320 21:55:20< fendrin> The gui0/1 system isn't that complicated if it weren't for all that redraw glitches.
20120320 21:55:26< noy> you can still ask away IvanSav 
20120320 21:55:30< shadowm> I try to keep funny bugs like these to a minimum even in trunk, you know. It's kind of jarring to see this kind of stuff.
20120320 21:55:33< IvanSav> how users can upload their mods right now? haven't found any tool for that.
20120320 21:56:29< fendrin> shadowm: Yes I agree. Still I think the bug was only workarounded before and is inside the gui backend. At least the minimap redraw bug is not editor specific.
20120320 21:56:32< zookeeper> IvanSav, "add-ons" from the title screen. the add-on browser has an upload feature.
20120320 21:56:47< shadowm> IvanSav: right now, people upload them through the game UI, which displays special entries for publishing add-ons when they create special files with relevant information for uploading ( http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PblWML )
20120320 21:57:41< shadowm> as zookeeper said, that interface option is be reached from the add-ons manager. There's a Python-based alternative that is a stand-alone script, but most content authors don't use/know how to use that, so they stick to the built-in option.
20120320 21:58:46< Crendgrim> well, the built-in option has a nice GUI and just works, so there's no need for most content authors to use a stand-alone script.
20120320 21:59:02< IvanSav> you mean in-game "get add-ons" screen? Don't see anything there...
20120320 21:59:21< shadowm> fendrin: the palette scrolls in steps of two (half a row) instead of four (whole row)... I hope that's not intentional either.
20120320 21:59:33< Crendgrim> IvanSav: you need to have an add-on with a _server.pbl file inside it to see the "publish add-on" option
20120320 21:59:37< fendrin> IvanSav: It is in the "title screen", the one with the map of the wesnoth beneath it.
20120320 21:59:42< shadowm> IvanSav: as I said, people have to create a special file with relevant information before they get the options for publishing
20120320 21:59:56< shadowm> otherwise they only get options for downloading and upgrading only
20120320 22:00:02< IvanSav> ah. got it.
20120320 22:00:33< Espreon> fendrin: Yeah, the Arch Mage icon doesn't go away after I move the mouse... So yeah, we have an Arch Mage representing the human race with a relevant tooltip while it's on the "all" group right after start up...  this is just... scary.
20120320 22:01:28< IvanSav> is there something specific I should focus right now? Finishing draft or something else?
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20120320 22:01:44< Espreon> fendrin: And, of course, the items in the race dropdown menu aren't even alphabetized properly when using something other than English.
20120320 22:01:52< fendrin> Espreon: And it is purple.
20120320 22:02:14< shadowm> magenta
20120320 22:02:23< fendrin> even worse
20120320 22:02:28< fendrin> the telekom color
20120320 22:03:09< shadowm> I suspect that's a joke we aren't supposed to get
20120320 22:03:22 * Espreon agrees
20120320 22:03:24< fendrin> magenta?
20120320 22:03:56-!- s951 [~s951@dyn1064-176.hor.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit]
20120320 22:04:28< fendrin> I will either color the units with red team color, or I will see which current side is selected and give the units their color.
20120320 22:04:43< shadowm> IvanSav: as for what to focus on right now, I'd ask mordante directly
20120320 22:05:15< fendrin> But, beside the obvious little bugs, isn't that a huge improvement? Took me a lot of work.
20120320 22:05:59< shadowm> I don't think that question can be reasonably answered right now.
20120320 22:07:18< shadowm> Because, let's face it, for all practical purposes the map editor is broken in trunk.
20120320 22:07:50< fendrin> no
20120320 22:07:51-!- filmor [~bs@xdsl-78-35-216-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20120320 22:07:54< shadowm> Yes.
20120320 22:08:14< fendrin> Not for me.
20120320 22:08:24< fendrin> Are you using windows or linux?
20120320 22:08:43< Espreon> Yes, but you are not God, the world, ...
20120320 22:09:14< shadowm> fendrin: I have not used Windows for any serious software development since 2006.
20120320 22:09:18-!- stikonas__ [~gentoo@ctv-79-132-176-196.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20120320 22:09:39< fendrin> So, what exactly is broken?
20120320 22:09:46< IvanSav> and how addon server handles multiple client versions? separate server for each major version of Wesnoth?
20120320 22:09:50< shadowm> What I see are very obvious signs of brokenness: buttons that don't do anything, glitchy UI element painting, and glitchy terrain palette scrolling.
20120320 22:09:54< mordante> shadowm, removing listbox rows in general seems to cause some glitches, removing all some resize issues
20120320 22:10:26< shadowm> IvanSav: exactly. (e.g. 1.6, 1.8, 1.9/1.10 atm)
20120320 22:10:53< mordante> anonymissimus, that can work you can even put the // do stuff in a try {}catch
20120320 22:11:03< mordante> anonymissimus, if that catch triggers call std::exception
20120320 22:11:06< shadowm> mordante: well, what I have here isn't so much a glitch as an assertion failure. Of course I guess there's not much point in explaining further since it's in a private branch.
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20120320 22:11:39< mordante> anonymissimus, why at many places, afaik Lua has only one entry point
20120320 22:12:04< iulians> I'm second year  Bsc Computer Science student at Polytechnic University of Bucharest, Romania. And I think that I can deal with implementation for AI. 
20120320 22:12:06< shadowm> IvanSav: so each instance of the server runs on the same host with different listening port numbers. Each Wesnoth client version series connects by default to a different port number.
20120320 22:12:07< mordante> fendrin, ok
20120320 22:12:24< mordante> IvanSav, I'm around, but not for long
20120320 22:12:43< CIA-69> fendrin * r53580 /trunk/src/editor/palette/ (brush.cpp brush.hpp): Moved the brush into the toolkit folder.
20120320 22:12:45< iulians> how can I prove 
20120320 22:12:47< iulians> ?
20120320 22:13:15< IvanSav> mordante: Hi. Any suggestions what I should focus on?
20120320 22:14:32< shadowm> fendrin: in particular, the last two glitches belong to the category of "unfinished WIP crap that should not be committed to a mainline tree or available with a default option set" in my book.
20120320 22:14:36< mordante> fendrin, in my IRC client shadowm almost has the telekom colour ;-)
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20120320 22:15:14< mordante> IvanSav, yes we have several server for the different versions
20120320 22:15:20< anonymissimus> mordante: Ok...not sure; I don't say more before I think I understand it better
20120320 22:15:36< mordante> the client could be the same, but the addon content is not portable between versions
20120320 22:15:46< IvanSav> mordante: yeah I got that)
20120320 22:16:26< shadowm> notice that I implemented #ifver in 1.9.x precisely so add-on content could at least try to be portable
20120320 22:16:28< mordante> anonymissimus, not sure about what the second catch handler or the multiple places
20120320 22:16:53< mordante> shadowm, ok
20120320 22:17:03< fendrin> shadowm: the buttons that don't do anything?
20120320 22:17:23< mordante> IvanSav, how familiar are you with boost asio?
20120320 22:17:41< shadowm> fendrin: I listed three signs of brokenness and then referred to "the last two glitches"
20120320 22:17:49< fendrin> shadowm: Please, be aware, the buttons that don't do anything will stay there. I have tools that can't be selected under certain conditions.
20120320 22:18:11< fendrin> Sounds like harry potter.
20120320 22:18:32< IvanSav> mordante: asio - not much. But I know a bit about boost and networking (posix sockets)
20120320 22:19:17< shadowm> fendrin: I don't get that joke either, but I'm sure you were paying attention to the original line and can tell the useless buttons were mentioned _first_, not last :)
20120320 22:19:56< fendrin> The scrolling has a problem. And you need to move the mouse before the palette apears.
20120320 22:20:10< mordante> IvanSav, we like to use boost asio since it's cross-platform, so studying boost asio can't hurt
20120320 22:20:22< shadowm> fendrin: in general, wehn designing a UI, make sure the user gets some kind of feedback if they aren't supposed to access/usea UI element at a particular time. You are currently violating that rule with the "pipette".
20120320 22:20:32< mordante> it would also be a good idea to study the current campaign server
20120320 22:20:33< anonymissimus> fendrin: did you forget to delete brush/brush_bar/cpp/hpp in palette/ ?
20120320 22:20:42< shadowm> fendrin: and yes, the scrolling has a problem, and the mouse... those two things should not happen in production
20120320 22:20:55< fendrin> but we are not in production
20120320 22:21:08< fendrin> it is the beginning of a new cycle
20120320 22:21:17< fendrin> far away from the first release even
20120320 22:21:17< shadowm> trunk is very close to production for me, especially if we stick to my analogy of the truck hitting you in the head
20120320 22:21:20< fendrin> so stay calm
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20120320 22:21:45< IvanSav> mordante: yeah. will do this in free time. And what about draft from svn? 
20120320 22:22:02< shadowm> fendrin: I'm just confused that you seem to not consider the mouse thing as a glitch only because there's an ugly workaround available to users at the moment
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20120320 22:22:15< fendrin> which mouse thing
20120320 22:22:22< mordante> IvanSav, the draft LaTeX document?
20120320 22:22:30< fendrin> Maybe you see something different.
20120320 22:22:36< shadowm> fendrin: the thing were we need to move the mouse after starting the editor to see the terrain palette for the first time
20120320 22:22:39< fendrin> I would not have commited a horribly broken editor.
20120320 22:22:55< fendrin> I have edited a map for half an hour before I dared to commit the thing.
20120320 22:23:18< IvanSav> mordante: yup. should I work on finishing it or this will be done later or by somebody else?
20120320 22:23:37< shadowm> fendrin: that's my point. "Broken" is relative. And I am certain from day to day experience that programmers  don't have the same sense of "brokenness" as users do because they break things all the time.
20120320 22:24:05< shadowm> For all practical purposes here, I use the user sense of brokenness since Wesnoth is a game, not a programmer's toy.
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20120320 22:24:32< fendrin> So we talk about users that are able to get my code and compile it, but don't expect a selfcompiledd svn head revision thing to have drawing issues?
20120320 22:24:51< fendrin> There are exactly 3 people that match that SUF.
20120320 22:24:59< shadowm> fendrin: I expect trunk to always remain as close to production quality as possible. Always.
20120320 22:25:13< fendrin> Well, I don't.
20120320 22:25:18< shadowm> Do I need to go back to the truck scenario?
20120320 22:25:38< fendrin> I am more the release early and often person.
20120320 22:25:47< fendrin> And I will stay with that opinion.
20120320 22:26:02< mordante> IvanSav, you can have a look at it, there are some ideas in it, but those ideas are not per se cast in stone
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20120320 22:26:08< shadowm> fendrin: Yes, but you take it to the extreme. Let's go back to the truck scenario.
20120320 22:26:28< shadowm> fendrin: suppose tomorrow you are crossing a street and a truck hits you. You die 24 hours later.
20120320 22:26:32< shadowm> What are going to do?
20120320 22:26:50< mordante> IvanSav, they need to be discussed on the dev-ml, but if you have ideas or suggestions let me know
20120320 22:26:57< fendrin> Revert my commits and go without me.
20120320 22:27:11< fendrin> Or better not. This are only some small drawing issues.
20120320 22:27:30< Crendgrim> guys... calm down.
20120320 22:27:38< shadowm> fendrin: yeah, exactly! hence it'd be nice if we didn't have to deal with them in the first place! :)
20120320 22:27:53< shadowm> i.e. were as close to production quality as possible
20120320 22:29:43< fendrin> Well, you may be pleased to hear that I have removed plenty of old code that wasn't even used any more and refactored the whole thing.
20120320 22:30:11< fendrin> I have fixed some drawing issues and other bugs.
20120320 22:30:12< shadowm> now generally speaking, I opt for hiding obviously not-yet-implemented code paths from the user
20120320 22:31:01< fendrin> But I do want the development user to see the unit palette. Even if it is not able to do anything right now.
20120320 22:31:17< fendrin> I need feedback on the multi palette thing.
20120320 22:31:26< shadowm> traditionally we use preprocessor conditionals or command-line arguments for that end
20120320 22:31:27< fendrin> That is what we have dev versions for.
20120320 22:31:50< fendrin> My preprocessor signs have been removed, remember?
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20120320 22:32:09< fendrin> So don't tell me to use them again.
20120320 22:32:17< shadowm> hm, no, I don't remember
20120320 22:32:26< fendrin> sigh
20120320 22:32:26-!- Gambit [~gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120320 22:32:52< shadowm> also, for all the glitches you have fixed, I think I see one *I* fixed in 1.10 has just somehow resurfaced
20120320 22:33:11< shadowm> namely the transparent tile icons overpaint issue
20120320 22:33:41< shadowm> *1.9.14
20120320 22:34:06< parth_> for the GSoC 2012 project of ai programming what all languages are to be known? 
20120320 22:34:24< shadowm> in fact, I'd like to know which glitches have been fixed, since I don't recall any in 1.10 beyond the low-resolution issues and the unstable palette layout
20120320 22:34:59< mordante> I'm off night
20120320 22:35:29< parth_> c_nevin92: for the GSoC 2012 project of ai programming what all languages are to be known?
20120320 22:36:40< fendrin> parth_: c++, lua, wml, formula ai. But you do not need to know all of them.
20120320 22:36:54-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-112-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ...]
20120320 22:37:09< fendrin> parth_: wml and formula ai are in fact wesnoth specific.
20120320 22:37:15-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20120320 22:37:32< anonymissimus> parth_: and you can forget forumale ai
20120320 22:37:39< anonymissimus> formula AI
20120320 22:37:47< anonymissimus> it is almost deprecated
20120320 22:38:01< fendrin> shadowm: Well, let's just play the old game. It has worked well for the last week or two and I am glad that I had your advises on hand. Just tell me what annoys you the most and I will fix it first.
20120320 22:38:46< fendrin> shadowm: I commit early mostly to get comments from annoying persons like you.
20120320 22:39:40 * anonymissimus is happy to not to argue with fendrin this time :)
20120320 22:39:40< c_nevin92> (anyone that knows about ai in wesnoth): how worth my time would it be laening lua for the total defense project? Also, I have posted my proposal in the wiki, though i would like to improve it with more details, any advice and critique would be extremely useful
20120320 22:39:55< Gambit> 03-20 17:37:32| <anonymissimus> parth_: and you can forget forumale ai
20120320 22:39:55< Gambit> 03-20 17:37:39| <anonymissimus> formula AI
20120320 22:39:55< Gambit> 03-20 17:37:47| <anonymissimus> it is almost deprecated
20120320 22:39:56< Gambit> :<
20120320 22:40:03< Gambit> Will we keep $() ?
20120320 22:40:17< parth_> fendrin: i have no idea about lua or wml but i am interested in programming ai.
20120320 22:40:49< parth_> can you tell me how much time it takes going through lua basics
20120320 22:41:28< timotei> parth_: depends what you want to do.
20120320 22:41:55< timotei> I skimmed about 10 minutes in the lua tutorial to be able to do simple stuff like adding numbers, and invoking/creating functions :P
20120320 22:42:06< timotei> But I don't know if that's enough for AI :)
20120320 22:42:42< timotei> Hmm... I think I should search for the last year's logs where Crab_ explained everything about AI xD
20120320 22:42:46< anonymissimus> Gambit: AFAIK $() is separate from formula AI and only loosely related
20120320 22:42:47< shadowm> fendrin: annoying people who are simply concerned about Wesnoth UI quality issues
20120320 22:42:55< timotei> Would make it a nice wiki page
20120320 22:43:05< parth_> timotei: well thats definitely now enough for ai
20120320 22:43:11< anonymissimus> and I have personla interest in keeping it since I use it a lot
20120320 22:43:32< parth_> timotei: but 10 minutes sounds encouraging enough
20120320 22:43:57< timotei> Well, that because I've seen some more lua before in my life (wesnoth, and world of warcraft...)
20120320 22:44:10< timotei> But yeah, shouldn't need too much time to get acustomed with the basic constructs..
20120320 22:44:29< anonymissimus> Gambit: loosely related meaning that it seems to use different code in the engine
20120320 22:44:29< fendrin> shadowm: Okay, about the buttons made by vultraz.
20120320 22:44:32< timotei> But I think Crab_ would be more interested in the logic behind "improving the AI"
20120320 22:44:43< anonymissimus> however, both areas appear orphaned...
20120320 22:44:49< timotei> As long as the idea and the "algorithm" is fine, anyone can implement that in any language.
20120320 22:45:47< shadowm> fendrin: what I advise is reverting them to the previous, bland look if code support for proper pressed states isn't feasible/going to happen. As they are now, they just look confusing because they look like regular buttons but dn't _act_ like them.
20120320 22:45:47< fendrin> shadowm: I can fix the drawing code and have their outer border not overdrawn. That will improve their appearance a lot. You can count that on one of the bugs that I have discovered and fixed.
20120320 22:46:40< shadowm> in fact I'm wondering right now if it'd not be a better idea to use the Task Tracker for things like this
20120320 22:47:04< parth_> there is also a project of lua debugger what language are u expecting in this?
20120320 22:47:16< shadowm> for example I need to keep track of a very rare bug in my code and I'm not sure I want to a file a proper bug report for it
20120320 22:47:20< timotei> parth_: well, if it's "lua" debugger, I guess it's lua :P
20120320 22:47:52< timotei> Though, I think you'll need C/C++ aswell
20120320 22:48:44< parth_> timotei: well its a debugger that debugs lua program it can be in any language as far as i think
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20120320 22:49:09< timotei> parth_: True... But I think it has to be integrated with the current engine...
20120320 22:50:27< parth_> timotei: u have a point there
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20120320 22:50:39< timotei> :)
20120320 22:50:42< parth_> guess i have to start learning a new language
20120320 22:50:57< timotei> Well, good luck with that.
20120320 22:51:23< parth_> Thanks
20120320 22:52:40< CIA-69> fendrin * r53581 /trunk/src/editor/palette/ (brush_bar.cpp brush_bar.hpp): Moved the brush_bar to the toolkit folder.
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20120320 22:53:46< shadowm> well, it looks like Wesnoth can't read the _info.cfg until the next cache refresh....
20120320 22:54:23< shadowm> oh right, it's that pesky version info cache crap I implemented in 1.5.x that I so profoundly regret nowadays
20120320 22:54:48< fendrin> shadowm: Are you still talking to me?
20120320 22:55:21< shadowm> no
20120320 22:57:18< timotei> fendrin: I'm wondering... how are you "moving" stuff, only by deleteing it? :D
20120320 22:58:11< fendrin> timotei: Yeah, that was a conflict. I still need to see what the author did to my code and port it to the merged file.
20120320 22:58:21< timotei> The author!?
20120320 22:58:34< fendrin> Of the code that conflicted with mine.
20120320 23:00:02< fendrin> I think it was shadowm
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20120320 23:00:24< shadowm> I have done nothing with your code so far beyond fixing the copyright notices
20120320 23:00:54< anonymissimus> this should be done before comitting
20120320 23:00:55< fendrin> Indeed. It is not your fault at all. Just me messing up with my local checkout.
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20120320 23:05:51< omero> hello folks! I'm having some troubles... scons build completes without problems, but scons install refuses to install anything
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20120320 23:06:27< shadowm> omero: Linux? are you running the install step as root?
20120320 23:06:33< Crab_> omero: you don't need to do scons install, actually.
20120320 23:06:37< shadowm> note that you can even run without installing
20120320 23:06:45< Crab_> omero: you can run&debug just fine without installing.
20120320 23:06:53< omero> nope, I'm running it as an unprivileged user (myself)
20120320 23:07:31< anonymissimus> then installing of course doesn't work
20120320 23:07:36< omero> but I never met this strange thing before
20120320 23:08:05-!- enchilado [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20120320 23:08:27< omero> anonymissimus, that's not the problem... I normally install under $HOME
20120320 23:08:41< Ivanovic> time for me to head off to bed, n8
20120320 23:08:50-!- liviuc [~liviu@p5.eregie.pub.ro] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120320 23:08:54< omero> scons --config=force build=release prefix=/home/omero/wesnoth1101 prefsdir=.wesnoth1101 server_uid=9001 server_gid=9999 fribidi=no boostdir=/opt/boost/include boostlibdir=/opt/boost/lib build
20120320 23:09:20< omero> that's my build line, then normally I would 'scons install' under my home to make sure everything is fine
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20120320 23:09:40< shadowm> loonycyborg knows more about this I guess. I just never install anywhere.
20120320 23:10:07< omero> I've done that as of 1.10 (since as early as 1.6.5) and always got it 
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20120320 23:12:50< loonycyborg> omero: You shouldn't pass 'build' on the command line.
20120320 23:12:55< omero> the weird thing is that the SConstruct for 1.10 and 1.10.1 are identical
20120320 23:13:18< loonycyborg> That'll request it to build everything in directory build/
20120320 23:13:25< omero> loonycyborg: actually, I normally just give 'scons ... all options ... install'
20120320 23:13:29< omero> and it works
20120320 23:13:45< omero> but this time around, it wouldn't build anything
20120320 23:14:20< omero> some timestamps issue?
20120320 23:14:26< loonycyborg> By default it installs all binaries that exist in svn root.
20120320 23:15:12< loonycyborg> But 'scons install wesnoth' should definitely trigger the install of the game itself at least.
20120320 23:15:18< omero> loonycyborg: scons --config=force build=release prefix=/home/omero/wesnoth1101 prefsdir=.wesnoth1101 server_uid=9001 server_gid=9999 fribidi=no boostdir=/opt/boost/include boostlibdir=/opt/boost/lib install
20120320 23:15:42< omero> should build everything and install under /home/omero/wesnoth1101
20120320 23:15:45< omero> right?
20120320 23:15:59< omero> it's always done that...
20120320 23:16:53< omero> I only need to pass the boostdir=/opt/boost/include boostlibdir=/opt/boost/lib because boost is under /opt for me
20120320 23:17:20< omero> and the build would fail if I didn't tell scons where to find boost
20120320 23:17:58< omero> scons: Building targets ...
20120320 23:17:58< omero> scons: Nothing to be done for `install'.
20120320 23:18:17< omero> that's the 2nd-last thing I see
20120320 23:18:29< omero> the last one is scons: done building targets
20120320 23:18:48< loonycyborg> Because no binaries exist in svn root.
20120320 23:19:22< omero> uhm... not clear what you mean with that, loonycyborg 
20120320 23:19:28< omero> I didn't use svn
20120320 23:19:35< omero> I just grabbed the tarball
20120320 23:19:42< omero> from sourceforge
20120320 23:19:59< loonycyborg> Just try the first scons command without 'build'
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20120320 23:20:30< omero> I just did... it's the 'scons ...blah... install', right?
20120320 23:20:52< loonycyborg> Nope.
20120320 23:21:04< loonycyborg> Without either 'build' or 'install'
20120320 23:21:13< omero> ok, I'm officially lost :)
20120320 23:21:29< loonycyborg> 'scons --config=force build=release prefix=/home/omero/wesnoth1101 prefsdir=.wesnoth1101 server_uid=9001 server_gid=9999 fribidi=no boostdir=/opt/boost/include boostlibdir=/opt/boost/lib'
20120320 23:21:45< omero> kk... without any target at the end, then?
20120320 23:21:52< loonycyborg> Yes.
20120320 23:22:05< loonycyborg> By default it should build wesnoth and wesnothd
20120320 23:22:20< omero> oh
20120320 23:22:29< omero> seems it's doing it
20120320 23:22:45< omero> but this conflicts with the INSTALL file instructions then...
20120320 23:23:11< omero> and I've been using the same procedure since 1.6.5
20120320 23:23:27< omero> with 'install' on the command lin
20120320 23:23:30< omero> line*
20120320 23:23:37< loonycyborg> It doesn't tell you to pass 'build' target.
20120320 23:23:55-!- parth_ [~parth@1.186.16.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20120320 23:24:00< omero> the 'build' was my attempt this time
20120320 23:24:08< omero> to try to get around the impasse
20120320 23:24:27< loonycyborg> The 'install' target only installs binaries existing in wesnoth root.
20120320 23:24:30< omero> it wouldn't even start building with 'install' in the command line
20120320 23:24:46< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53582 /trunk/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp: (log message trimmed)
20120320 23:24:46< CIA-69> addon/mg: Force version_info cache refresh after installing add-ons
20120320 23:24:46< CIA-69> The cache obviously becomes goes stale after installing/upgrading any
20120320 23:24:46< CIA-69> amount of add-ons. It's normally refreshed in the same steps as all
20120320 23:24:46< CIA-69> other caches (WML, graphics, etc.), but when we are in the manager UI
20120320 23:24:47< CIA-69> loop that code doesn't get a chance to run, so we must reset this
20120320 23:24:48< CIA-69> particular cache before continuing. This makes add-on statuses work
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20120320 23:25:15< omero> uhm... I think it's currently re-building everything
20120320 23:25:29< loonycyborg> --config=force is causing that
20120320 23:25:42< omero> ah
20120320 23:25:49< loonycyborg> It seems to mark all files as changed in later versions.
20120320 23:27:15< omero> that's one thing I changed recently (I was having problems building 1.10, and --config=force was suggested here.. so I included it this time too)
20120320 23:27:38< loonycyborg> Basically 'scons install wesnoth wesnothd' will do it all in one command
20120320 23:28:57< loonycyborg> 'install' alone won't do anything since it looks for which binaries exist.
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20120320 23:29:21< omero> isn't there an 'install all' target?
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20120320 23:30:02< loonycyborg> 'scons install all' will work too :P
20120320 23:30:22< omero> lol
20120320 23:30:43< omero> should have made an attempt with that
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20120320 23:32:11< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53583 /trunk/ (data/core/help.cfg src/addon/manager_ui.cpp): addon/mg: Give the Installing Add-ons topic in the help a matching id
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20120320 23:33:45< Nephro> Hello, Crab_, I am here now
20120320 23:34:10< Crab_> hi, Nephro
20120320 23:34:55< Crab_> I've spoken with mattsc, and he told me 'The biggest restriction for me is still that get_attacks() and get_enemy_attacks() are missing. Simply adding those two functions would go a long way to make things easier. '
20120320 23:35:10< Crab_> So, implementing those would be a plus :)
20120320 23:37:05< Nephro> Will be done. I wanted to speak to mattsc myself, didn't get a chance yet
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20120320 23:43:31< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53584 /trunk/data/core/help.cfg: Add help topic about removing add-ons for the sake of completeness
20120320 23:45:48< shadowm> I'm thinking perhaps we should have a dialog present the player with the information that's normally found at the start of stderr to reduce "where are my data files" questions in the forums
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20120320 23:47:29< shadowm> but I can't think of a good place to put/link it, right now
20120320 23:48:10< shadowm> it might also be about time we consider some glue to invoke web browsers
20120320 23:48:40< anonymissimus> rather hit the with stderr anyway, since its so useful for reducing other questions as well
20120320 23:49:03< Crab_> shadowm: maybe add a console command for that?
20120320 23:49:31< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53585 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj: VC projectfile update
20120320 23:49:56< shadowm> the people who will use Wesnoth's console are presumably savvy enough to locate Wesnoth's files/read the website on their own too
20120320 23:50:02< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53586 /trunk/projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Cb projectfile update
20120320 23:51:41< shadowm> in a more general note, there's no in-game documentation specifying how to contact us about bugs, etc., but akin to that, there's no specific team to deal with that (including reports for outdated versions). It's just assumed the person knows of wesnoth.org or can find it on their own.
20120320 23:52:15< Crab_> shadowm: then, a button in settings....
20120320 23:52:36< shadowm> Along the same line, the add-ons UI is reasonably elegant until we get to the publishing options, which don't appear until the user successfully finds the relevant documentation in the website.
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20120320 23:53:30< shadowm> Now that's fine and everything, but I'd like to _move_ the publishing options away from that place to reduce code bloat.
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20120320 23:54:02< shadowm> And if I do that, I'll have to introduce a visible Publish Add-ons dialog/menu somewhere, and people will wonder why it doesn't work out of the box.
20120320 23:54:31< shadowm> Then I'll have to mention somewhere in the UI or help system that they are supposed to go to wesnoth.org and learn on their own how to do that. What a big snowball.
20120320 23:57:35< shadowm> So instead of being the big book of black magic it is right now, that only appears after using the proper spells, it will become a big book of black magic that's always visible but won't open without the proper spells. People are more likely to be confused by what they can see but not use, than by what they cannot see.
20120320 23:59:13< shadowm> And more in general, I hate hiding UI elements without an explanation or an internal trigger.
20120320 23:59:30< shadowm> Er, visible inside trigger.
--- Log closed Wed Mar 21 00:00:28 2012