--- Log opened Thu Mar 22 00:00:31 2012
--- Day changed Thu Mar 22 2012
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20120322 00:17:48< khoover> noy, yes, University of Toronto's BSc program. planning on Computer Science as a specialization, and Cognitive Science as a major.
20120322 00:18:15< noy> Cool, I think I know a professor there.
20120322 00:18:19< noy> or wait, used to be there
20120322 00:18:36< noy> for you to be accepted you'll need to provide proof of you going there
20120322 00:18:56< noy> we had a student a few years ago who was in the same boat
20120322 00:19:03< noy> What province are you in now?
20120322 00:20:51< khoover> Ontario
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20120322 00:25:00< khoover> what sort of tests do you guys run on patches before commit, btw/
20120322 00:25:06< khoover> ?*
20120322 00:26:03< shadowm> It varies wildly according to the person handling the patch and the affected areas.
20120322 00:26:39< shadowm> That is, assuming you are talking of user-contributed patches rather than our own.
20120322 00:27:54< khoover> well, what would the policy for testing on GSoC projects be/
20120322 00:28:10< khoover> I hate my shift key.
20120322 00:28:25< shadowm> ah well, in that case I have no idea since I've never been a mentor myself
20120322 00:29:17< shadowm> but I imagine it goes like this: mentors make sure their students know what they are doing, accomplishing their original goals and complying with any established deadlines
20120322 00:29:26< noy> basically we have a two patches you're in policy
20120322 00:29:49< noy> so you'll bring two patches forward and they will be looked over by another dev
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20120322 00:30:03< noy> (we actually require that for potential gsoc students)
20120322 00:30:30< noy> after that, the testing is really whatever test you feel as a developer it needs
20120322 00:30:56< noy> now remember that other developers will look at patches afterwards and might raise issues if there are any
20120322 00:32:27< noy> its not a hard rule, people will just see what you've done and might critique it.
20120322 00:32:38< noy> hope that helps khoover 
20120322 00:33:28< khoover> yeah, it does noy. Thanks. How do you guys test when you patch stuff in, anyway? I mean, are there any scenarios, any specific actions done?
20120322 00:33:58< noy> Again, it really depends on the type of patch and the approach
20120322 00:34:39< noy> in many cases its a case of "we'll see how it works in the next dev version"
20120322 00:34:55< noy> or building it and seeing how it operates
20120322 00:35:14< noy> We don't have a set methodology if that's what you're asking
20120322 00:35:37< khoover> yeah, that was it. again, not terribly used to anything beyond me hacking some code together
20120322 00:35:52< noy> then you'll fit right in :)
20120322 00:36:04< noy> People might have different methodologies
20120322 00:36:14< noy> and you can certainly ask them for their opinion
20120322 00:38:20< shadowm> for certain _very_ low-level functionality there's also an automated test suite using Boost.test that can be built and run by anyone to make sure a change doesn't introduce regressions. Generally-speaking, that's not used a lot since that functionality is generally set in stone and the relevant code only rarely changes
20120322 00:39:34< noy> oh, right
20120322 00:39:35< khoover> sounds good then. :) also, having some trouble with apt-get build-dep, apparently I need to add URIs to sources.list.
20120322 00:40:01< noy> I'm not too sure what your skillset is, but I'd suggest you look at the non-AI tasks
20120322 00:40:12< shadowm> khoover: what operating system are you using?
20120322 00:40:14< khoover> yeah, you mentioned that up top
20120322 00:40:22< khoover> shadowm: oneric
20120322 00:40:25< noy> right. I also think they are much easier.
20120322 00:40:47< shadowm> ah well, I'm not familiarized with the way the Ubuntu people set up their repositories
20120322 00:41:25< noy> or I should say that the other tasks are not easier, but they require less knowledge of game operation, and therefore are easier. 
20120322 00:43:50< khoover> so, in essence, AI requires one to l2p.
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20120322 00:48:04< noy> yes...
20120322 00:49:37< khoover> aha, alright then. and suppose I'm just going to have to build from source to get a working wesnoth
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20120322 00:53:45< noy> that's a good idea. however I'd suggest that other tasks require you to do less game learning... and if you need to brush up on your technical skills, then the non-ai ones are better suited for you.
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20120322 01:01:38< khoover> true, I suppose
20120322 01:06:36< khoover> where could I find old versions of sdl? can only seem to find 1.2.14
20120322 01:07:10< shadowm> why do you need older versions?
20120322 01:08:06< khoover> apparently those bugs that were mentioned in 14 and 15
20120322 01:09:15< shadowm> I suspect older versions are more likely to have more bugs that weren't considered or possible at the time due to changes in the platform (Linux, X11)
20120322 01:10:17< shadowm> at least here I use (vanilla, installed to my home dir and overridden with a wrapper script) 1.2.14 when I absolutely need the window resizing functionality for playing
20120322 01:10:28< bloodycoin> you can always compile SDL yourself :)
20120322 01:10:55< Chopper> this is starting bad. Go on like that and you will end up compiling kernel ....
20120322 01:10:57< bloodycoin> in the version you want it to be in
20120322 01:12:51< Chopper> http://xkcd.com/456/
20120322 01:14:03< shadowm> I don't feel particularly inclined to bother the Debian packagers if upstream hasn't said a word on the "fix" yet
20120322 01:14:17< CIA-69> shadowmaster * r53610 /trunk/src/game_preferences_display.cpp: 
20120322 01:14:17< CIA-69> preferences: Make the Preferences dialog even more consistent across all supported resolutions
20120322 01:14:17< CIA-69> * Moved the main working area upwards as it was already done on vertical resolutions < 600
20120322 01:14:17< CIA-69> * Tweaked working area dimensions so (for unknown reasons) the left side menu can be displayed a little better on 800x480, missing one visible item instead of two
20120322 01:14:18< CIA-69> * The dialog became slightly shorter on all resolutions, but this shouldn't have any functional implications
20120322 01:14:26< khoover> Chopper: what, you mean people usually don't do that?
20120322 01:15:42< Chopper> did you pm me khoover? sry new to irc :3
20120322 01:15:47< Chopper> how you do that?
20120322 01:16:07< khoover> drop in the nick of the person you want to msg. can use tab to auto-complete
20120322 01:16:16< khoover> at least, in xIRC you can tab for auto
20120322 01:16:33< shadowm> Chopper: this is not a private message
20120322 01:16:48< bloodycoin> Chopper: I know that one and it's really fun actually once you start
20120322 01:16:49< shadowm> that is just a public mention
20120322 01:16:50< Chopper> well your name is red when u use the Chopper: ting
20120322 01:17:15< shadowm> that's just to grab your attention
20120322 01:17:29< Chopper> I am using webchat.freenode.net so i cant drag and drop unfortunately :\
20120322 01:17:38< Chopper> khoover: does this works?
20120322 01:17:41< khoover> yeah
20120322 01:17:47< Chopper> oh so i can just type it?
20120322 01:17:51< khoover> sure
20120322 01:17:56< Chopper> perfect
20120322 01:18:09< Chopper> IRC afficionado now 8-)
20120322 01:18:47< khoover> suppose I'd also be starting a branch with anything major, too.
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20120322 01:28:50< khoover> if i build wesnoth from source with libsdl1.2-dev installed, do I have to install the full runtime version of sdl?
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20120322 01:35:22< shadowm> khoover: of course, otherwise Wesnoth won't run, but I don't think your package manager will let you have the development package installed without the runtime
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20120322 01:35:55< shadowm> in fact, it will not
20120322 01:36:07< khoover> honestly, if aptitude were working, and not throwing resolver barf all the time, I'd be in a better position atm.
20120322 01:36:21< khoover> goofing around with apt-get, unfortunately.
20120322 01:36:54< shadowm> e.g. here libsdl1.2-dev depends on libsdl1.2debian and cannot be installed without it
20120322 01:38:22< shadowm> I don't know about aptitude since I usually use only synaptic and apt-get directly, but it shouldn't make a difference for this since the package management backend is the same
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20120322 01:50:07< khoover> can't seem to find any packages named pangocairo. sorry if I'm being a bit of a gnat.
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20120322 01:51:11< bloodycoin> try libpango1.0
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20120322 01:55:53< shadowm> Espreon: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36433
20120322 01:56:58< Espreon> All right.
20120322 01:57:53< shadowm> Espreon: but _you_ will still help me with the Add-ons section, right?
20120322 01:58:09< Espreon> Yes.
20120322 01:58:27< shadowm> because as fun as this might be, I'm pretty sure you are more efficient than these brainless people I mean users
20120322 01:58:34< shadowm> :p
20120322 01:58:42< Espreon> Ha ha.
20120322 01:59:07< khoover> alright, I may finally be ready to crack a peek at the code
20120322 01:59:33< shadowm> because, seriously, I expect a lot of trouble culling their output
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20120322 02:00:14< shadowm> requesting them to reach a consensus might have been a terrible idea
20120322 02:00:50< Espreon> There will be no consensus-reaching from the likes of them.
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20120322 02:05:54< Sapient> yo shadowm
20120322 02:07:36< Sapient> regarding bug #16692, the test code in comment #2 still does not work in Wesnoth 1.10 (despite having quotes)
20120322 02:08:15< Sapient> I suspect there is no variable substitution at all occurring in the event name
20120322 02:08:48< Sapient> if you don't object, I will change the title back to reflect that
20120322 02:09:10< shadowm> erm, I hadn't noticed that's not an event within an event
20120322 02:09:33< shadowm> I assume the event in question is being processed before the prestart even handler that initializes the relevant variable gets a chance to run
20120322 02:10:35< Sapient> event names should perform variable substitution at the time that they are checked for a match with the fired event
20120322 02:10:42< Sapient> not before
20120322 02:11:23< Sapient> that was the way it worked in previous versions
20120322 02:11:29< shadowm> is that still the case?
20120322 02:11:40< Sapient> it hasn't been the case since 1.6
20120322 02:11:59< Sapient> I'm not sure exactly when it stopped working
20120322 02:13:00< shadowm> and was this documented to be supposed to be the case?
20120322 02:13:38< Sapient> doubtful, unless you consider obvious code to be self-documenting
20120322 02:15:03< shadowm> I think the game events unit has been refactored twice or thrice since the last time I was paying attention circa 1.5.0
20120322 02:15:36< Sapient> anyway, it should be obvious why allowing variable substitution in event names is useful and disallowing has no benefit other than maybe some vain attempt at premature optimization
20120322 02:16:24< Sapient> I remember at least one post in WML Workshop asking why it didn't work 
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20120322 02:17:20< shadowm> I'm not going to debate that, although I for one have always run with the assumption that any WML technique that isn't used in a mainline campaign is a border case likely to be later broken by a random coder
20120322 02:17:58< Sapient> I could also argue it from a consistency standpoint
20120322 02:18:41< Sapient> the contents of the event are substituted at event firing time, unless documented otherwise
20120322 02:19:08< Sapient> that is the default assumption
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20120322 02:22:49< khoover> hate to interrupt, but the Cmake GUI's asking me about what type of build to run. assuming release would be the one if I want to start running the thing, and debug to code
20120322 02:23:09< shadowm> yes
20120322 02:23:55< Sapient> ok well I got to go, cya
20120322 02:24:04 * Sapient waves
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20120322 05:21:59< MLatura> hey guys, is anyone available to chat for a minute regarding GSoC?
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20120322 05:23:14< Espreon> MLatura: Everyone should be up in a few hours or so.
20120322 05:23:36< Espreon> I guess I could try to answer any questions you might have.
20120322 05:23:41< Espreon> So, fire away.
20120322 05:23:55< MLatura> cool, ive got class in the morning so i'll see if you can help me out
20120322 05:24:02< MLatura> nothing too complicated to ask anyway
20120322 05:24:11< Espreon> All right.
20120322 05:25:11< MLatura> i'm looking to get involved with GSoC and i found the Wesnoth project to be pretty interesting. I was wondering what kind of skill set you guys are looking for with most of the proposed ideas?
20120322 05:25:53< Espreon> Well, C++ and Lua are the important languages around here. C++ more so, though.
20120322 05:26:23< Espreon> Python and Perl (Perl much less so) are the languages of our tools, pretty much.
20120322 05:26:48< Espreon> So, for those proposals, you'll pretty much be using C++ and Lua.
20120322 05:26:55< Espreon> *proposed ideas
20120322 05:27:02< MLatura> okay, im most comfortable in Java as i would guess most university students are but ive done a little bit of C++. If someone is enthusiastic and willing to put in time to learn, would lack of language experience be a deciding factor when evaluating applications?
20120322 05:27:18< Espreon> Probably.
20120322 05:27:35< Espreon> Wesnoth's codebase is a monstrosity.
20120322 05:28:02< MLatura> okay i figured as much, makes sense
20120322 05:28:12< Espreon> MLatura: You may wish to read these: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/HackingWesnoth ... http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CodingStandards
20120322 05:28:36< MLatura> awesome, ill definetly check those out
20120322 05:28:50< Espreon> Of course, we value those who are friendly and have the desire to stay even after GSoC is over.
20120322 05:28:58< Espreon> After all, we need people to maintain the code!
20120322 05:29:03< Espreon> We really do.
20120322 05:29:11< MLatura> awesome, it sounds like a fun project
20120322 05:29:52< MLatura> one more question, if i submit an application towards one idea but you choose someone else... would you consider me for one of the other ideas? I don't want to spam your site by applying to everything
20120322 05:30:22< Espreon> Possibly. I really wouldn't know, though.
20120322 05:30:33< Espreon> ... I'm not involved with any of the GSoC stuff, nor could I be a mentor.
20120322 05:30:49< Espreon> If you wish to make multiple proposals, make sure they're solid.
20120322 05:30:50< MLatura> i see, well i appreciate your help anyway : )
20120322 05:30:56< Espreon> Yup.
20120322 05:31:08< MLatura> you said most of the mentors are usually active later?
20120322 05:31:53< Espreon> Yes. They're all European.
20120322 05:32:00< Espreon> ... so they're on when it's day in Europe.
20120322 05:32:06< MLatura> ah, okay
20120322 05:32:06< Espreon> ... Western and Central Europe.
20120322 05:32:11< Espreon> ... pretty much.
20120322 05:32:33< MLatura> well maybe ill check back friday night or so when i don't need to get to bed early
20120322 05:32:40< Espreon> Heh heh.
20120322 05:32:51< Espreon> Any other questions?
20120322 05:32:53< MLatura> i'm gonna go read those pages you linked, thank you very much for your help
20120322 05:33:13< Espreon> You're quite welcome.
20120322 05:33:21< MLatura> have a good night
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20120322 10:52:20< vultraz> wesbot: seen Exasperation
20120322 10:52:20< wesbot> vultraz: The person with the nick Exasperation last spoke 58d 6h ago.  57d 10h ago they were seen quitting on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Client Quit
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20120322 16:12:19< gabba> Morning
20120322 16:14:07< vultraz> hey
20120322 16:21:33< nick394> Hi all! Building wesnoth, MSVC2010 throws a lot of errors like:                editor_controller.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol "public: void __thiscall editor::context_manager::save_map(void)" (?save_map@...   Does it want any lib? or a peice of love=) I spent a lot of time on that and even thought about changing IDE. please,if you know give me the right direction to solve the pr
20120322 16:22:04< nick394> *problem
20120322 16:23:41-!- oldtopman [~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120322 16:35:05< gabba> I do all my wesnoth programming work on Linux myself, so can't help there
20120322 16:35:56< gabba> anonymissimus, Crab_ and others work under Windows, so whenever they're around they should be able to help you out
20120322 16:38:05< nick394> thank you
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20120322 18:09:35< anonymissimus> nick394: the 2010 project is horribly outdated by now thats why
20120322 18:10:05-!- nick394 [~nick394@wn1nat30.beelinegprs.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20120322 18:10:49< anonymissimus> options: 1) use the 1.10 branch for now; 2) use MSVC 2008 + the according projectfile; 3) convert the 2008 projectfile into a 2010 one and try that
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20120322 18:29:39< Crendgrim> wesbot: seen robert
20120322 18:29:39< wesbot> Crendgrim: Sorry, I don't know of robert.
20120322 18:29:46< Crendgrim> wesbot: seen sasu_robert
20120322 18:29:46< wesbot> Crendgrim: Sorry, I don't know of sasu_robert.
20120322 18:29:49< Crendgrim> yeah.
20120322 18:30:40< Crendgrim> does anyone know which nickname sasu_robert (a SoC appliant) uses on IRC, and whether he actually has been here?
20120322 18:32:45< Ivanovic> hi
20120322 18:34:50< Crendgrim> "DO NOT EDIT THIS PAGE, SoC2012_Template_of_Student_Page, - MAKE A COPY! "
20120322 18:34:53< Crendgrim> seems to be too small.
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20120322 18:49:50< oldtopman> seen sasy
20120322 18:49:57< oldtopman> wesbot: seen sasu
20120322 18:49:57< wesbot> oldtopman: Sorry, I don't know of sasu.
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20120322 18:53:28< vultraz> hey fendrin 
20120322 18:53:38< fendrin> hi vultraz
20120322 18:54:07-!- nick394 [~nick394@wn2nat41.beelinegprs.ru] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120322 19:07:51< chrisoelmueller> yeah we also had that
20120322 19:08:06< chrisoelmueller> needed to admin protect the page for the application time being
20120322 19:08:26< chrisoelmueller> even filled in cell phone numbers and stuff, which is never supposed to go on the wiki
20120322 19:09:58< Crendgrim> chrisoelmueller: do you think it's reasonable to admin-protect it again?
20120322 19:10:31< chrisoelmueller> no idea how wesnoth handles that, but we don't edit the template during the student application weeks anyways
20120322 19:10:47< chrisoelmueller> and we have enough admins available to request changes imho
20120322 19:12:25< Crendgrim> alright, then I'm going to protect it. If somebody complains, it can be reverted.
20120322 19:14:35-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g224184021.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20120322 19:14:49< Crendgrim> when is the deadline for applications?
20120322 19:15:28< Crendgrim> ah, found it.
20120322 19:16:34< bloodycoin> Hey, can somebody mark my account as GSoC student account?
20120322 19:17:20< bloodycoin> I use same username as in IRC
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20120322 19:44:26< vultraz> fendrin: how goes the editor?
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20120322 19:54:38< anonymissimus> nick394: [18:09]	anonymissimus	nick394: the 2010 project is horribly outdated by now thats why
20120322 19:54:40< anonymissimus> [18:10]	|<--	nick394 has left irc.wesnoth.org (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
20120322 19:54:41< anonymissimus> [18:10]	anonymissimus	options: 1) use the 1.10 branch for now; 2) use MSVC 2008 + the according projectfile; 3) convert the 2008 projectfile into a 2010 one and try that
20120322 19:55:33< anonymissimus> no private chat pls; and I hope you don't ping timeout again
20120322 19:59:53< vultraz> anonymissimus: is it complicated to compile on windows?
20120322 20:00:30< anonymissimus> probably not more thatn on Mac
20120322 20:00:34< anonymissimus> or even less
20120322 20:01:34< anonymissimus> the difficult stuff is to get the dependencies right, but fortunately I never needed to do that so far
20120322 20:02:13< anonymissimus> "get them right" meaning compiling the boost deps for MinGw
20120322 20:02:55< anonymissimus> IIRC for MSVC no compilation is needed since boost provides some ready to go libs+dlls
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20120322 20:15:53< fendrin> vultraz: hmmm
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20120322 20:18:05< fendrin> vultraz: The palette still has some drawing errors. I am thinking about recoding it in gui2 since the gui1 stuff is just buggy.
20120322 20:18:41< fendrin> vultraz: But I haven't seen mordante in the last two days.
20120322 20:18:54< vultraz> is that what causes the black background?
20120322 20:19:09< nick394> anonymissimus: thanks a lot,you gave me a hope. There were no problems with building the 1.10 branch. And I'll try the other options later.
20120322 20:20:14< fendrin> vultraz: Yes. The black background is one of the issues. The old editor had its errors as well and I think they were just workarounded somehow.
20120322 20:22:25-!- EdB [~edb@tss37-1-89-82-194-231.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20120322 20:22:50< fendrin> vultraz: Note that gui0 is working fine. The gui2 dialogs don't make problems as well. It's the gui1 stuff that always causes trouble with drawing glitches.
20120322 20:23:43< vultraz> heh
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20120322 20:55:19< CIA-69> fendrin * r53611 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/window.hpp: Fixed some spelling errors in the comments.
20120322 20:55:56< faryshta> How can I send a message to someone who is offline?
20120322 20:57:02< fendrin> faryshta: Well, some people read the log files. But I would better go with a forum PM.
20120322 20:57:11< Ivanovic> faryshta: you can leave a message in here mentioning the nickname and hope that the receipent reads the logs
20120322 21:04:20-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120322 21:05:49< fendrin> hi shadowm_laptop
20120322 21:06:08 * shadowm says hi.
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20120322 21:08:16< fendrin> shadowm: I have been waiting for you. I am sick with the gui1 palette implementation. Thus considering to replace it with a gui2 one. I like to ask you what widgets/dialogs are there to fit the palette needs. It seems you are the gui2 expert when mordante is not around.
20120322 21:08:44< fendrin> shadowm: This might also allow more of your design suggestions to be implemented.
20120322 21:09:35< shadowm> I believe I already said my knowledge of the GUI2 framework only goes as far as I've needed to use it.
20120322 21:10:40< shadowm> But I can easily cut this short: mordante has told me and other people multiple times that GUI2 is not (yet?) intended for dynamic layouts that are generated at runtime and not from GUI2 WML.
20120322 21:11:14< shadowm> Ergo, not useful for your purposes.
20120322 21:11:20< fendrin> uh
20120322 21:11:29< fendrin> That comes as a surprise.
20120322 21:11:38< shadowm> Furthermore, I've never heard of GUI2 widgets being used without a GUI2 window.
20120322 21:13:39< shadowm> As for the GUI1 thing, I guess I can have a look when you are done moving big chunks of code around.
20120322 21:15:39< fendrin> I am done.
20120322 21:15:52< fendrin> The refactoring is complete.
20120322 21:20:12-!- enchilado [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120322 21:20:41< shadowm> Then I'll have a look at it right now.
20120322 21:20:51< fendrin> shadowm: That is very kind of you.
20120322 21:21:10< fendrin> shadowm: Note that everything works fine after a window resize event. 
20120322 21:21:40< fendrin> shadowm: But I failed to do manually whatever the resize does to the sidebar.
20120322 21:22:08-!- loonycyborg [loonycybor@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20120322 21:22:29< fendrin> shadowm: I mean, not a resize fixes a glitch but a resize does fix everything till the end of the program execution.
20120322 21:23:52-!- loonycyborg [loonycybor@wesnoth/developer/loonycyborg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20120322 21:27:10< fendrin> hi Crab_
20120322 21:27:14< Crab_> nick394: a few files are missing in the project file. find them ( they're in the src/editor subdirectory) and add to project, that should solve the link issues.
20120322 21:27:17< Crab_> fendrin: hello
20120322 21:27:31< faryshta> shadowm, hi. Do you have any news about the new addon server?
20120322 21:27:39< shadowm> no
20120322 21:28:24< faryshta> shadowm, thanks ;)
20120322 21:28:59-!- mihaineacsu [~Cookie503@p16.eregie.pub.ro] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120322 21:29:50< shadowm> fendrin: so why did the editor_palette cease to be a GUI1 widget?
20120322 21:31:10< shadowm> ah, the palette_manager took on that role
20120322 21:31:18< fendrin> yes
20120322 21:32:58< fendrin> Since the old widgets all occupied the same gui space it seemed easier to have only one mother widget instead.
20120322 21:35:35< shadowm> item_map_wurscht ... ?
20120322 21:35:51< fendrin> ohje 
20120322 21:36:22< fendrin> wurscht == sausage
20120322 21:36:35< fendrin> I guess that variable is to be renamed.
20120322 21:36:39< shadowm> ooookay, and what is that supposed to mean?
20120322 21:36:43< Espreon> ... Most definitely.
20120322 21:36:48< vultraz> item map sausage? 
20120322 21:36:53< vultraz> lolwut?
20120322 21:36:58< shadowm> yeah, remember that this crap is supposed to be readable by people who speak English, not German
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20120322 21:37:27< Crendgrim> item_map_wurscht :D
20120322 21:37:57< Espreon> Indeed.
20120322 21:38:07< vultraz> maybe fendrin tucked a sausage item in there somewhere
20120322 21:38:10< vultraz> ;)
20120322 21:38:13< fendrin> vultraz: We Germans sometimes say "Wurscht" instead of "it doesn't matter".
20120322 21:38:25< Espreon> We are not German.
20120322 21:38:29< shadowm> so it's an item_map_whatever class in essence?
20120322 21:38:38-!- Crendgrim [~crend@77-22-112-72-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ...]
20120322 21:38:59< fendrin> yes
20120322 21:39:12< fendrin> Item is the template
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20120322 21:39:53< shadowm> well, I guess I'll ignore the idiosyncratic type naming for now
20120322 21:40:56< fendrin> yes, please do so.
20120322 21:41:39< shadowm> ¬_¬
20120322 21:43:14< shadowm> is there any specific reason this class has two draw methods, one that doesn't take any arguments and another that takes one optional argument?
20120322 21:43:33< fendrin> yes
20120322 21:43:33< shadowm> in particular the one that doesn't take any arguments calls the one that takes an optional argument with the default value for that optional argument
20120322 21:43:59< fendrin> well, I can only guess.
20120322 21:44:07< fendrin> That was not introduced by me.
20120322 21:44:16< shadowm> ah, draw is virtual and inherited from gui::widget
20120322 21:44:19< fendrin> The just draw() method is called 
20120322 21:44:36< shadowm> that is, the one without arguments; so the useless thing is the optionality of the argument for the version that takes an argument
20120322 21:44:36< fendrin> I guess you understand already.
20120322 21:45:16< shadowm> maybe it's just me, but when I'm refactoring or otherwise rewriting code I make sure I understand the previous code in its entirety first
20120322 21:45:44< fendrin> Well, I think that I understand that part well.
20120322 21:46:31< fendrin> draw() is called by the gui0 refresh event while draw(bool) is called by the coder of the editor to enforce a redraw if necessary.
20120322 21:46:55< fendrin> In fact, that isn't the only draw() in Wesnoth's code base that works that way.
20120322 21:47:10< fendrin> s/gui0/gui1
20120322 21:48:15< shadowm> I'm suspecting the palette_manager is first constructed at a point the sidebar background hasn't been painted
20120322 21:48:53< shadowm> and that would be why resizing the window replaces its cached background with what we want (the sidebar background) instead of what we originally get (a black background)
20120322 21:49:49< shadowm> *got
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20120322 21:51:20< shadowm> s/constructed/placed/ (gui::widget::set_location() is responsible for grabbing the previous background AFAICT)
20120322 21:52:31< vultraz> huh...I don't get the black bg until I change groups.....
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20120322 21:53:05< vultraz> the palette seems to be the last part of the editor that appears for me
20120322 21:53:18< vultraz> s/appears/gets drawn
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20120322 21:55:27< vultraz> shadowm: ^
20120322 21:56:16< shadowm> vultraz: try scrolling down instead of changing groups. And no, it's not really necessary to point out the current behavior when I'm actually testing it.
20120322 21:56:39-!- mihaineacsu [~Cookie503@p16.eregie.pub.ro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20120322 21:57:04< shadowm> And not just testing it, but also experimenting with altering it.
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20120322 21:58:45< vultraz> shadowm: scrolling down STILL makes the black bg appear
20120322 21:59:17< shadowm> vultraz: and?
20120322 22:00:03< fendrin> I am away for ~half an hour, fetching some food.
20120322 22:02:03< shadowm> any C++ experts could remind me the order in which class members are destructed?
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20120322 22:02:52< shadowm> (i.e. in which orders their destructors are called when they are not POD or pointer types)
20120322 22:02:58< shadowm> *order
20120322 22:06:48< ancestral> shadowm: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/dtors.html#faq-11.2
20120322 22:09:53< shadowm> fendrin: editor_toolkit's constructor doesn't initialize all class member fields
20120322 22:10:52< shadowm> that is, it doesn't have all of them in the initializer list
20120322 22:11:35< shadowm> a quick probes indeed reveals that the editor palette backgroundis cached at a point at which the _entire_ screen is blacked out
20120322 22:11:39< shadowm> *probe
20120322 22:13:03< shadowm> I guess what mordante normally uses is -Wextra... time for a full rebuild.
20120322 22:16:34< shadowm> no, that cannot be it
20120322 22:16:42< shadowm> it's synonymous with -W and scons already passes that
20120322 22:19:13-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20120322 22:28:06< ejls> IvanSav: Please, have a look at your user talk page on the wiki (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User_talk:IvanS).
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20120322 22:41:10< shadowm> yeah, that's not the only class in which the initializer list is incomplete
20120322 22:41:21< shadowm> unfortunately I have no idea what mordante does to detect those cases
20120322 22:42:08< shadowm> ugh at the comments in the editor_controller constructor
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20120322 22:54:16< anonymissimus> "maybe it's just me, but when I'm refactoring or otherwise rewriting code I make sure I understand the previous code in its entirety first": I'm tempted to make that a signature or something...
20120322 23:01:10-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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20120322 23:13:56< fendrin> shadowm: I am back.
20120322 23:16:24-!- mage666 [~palladin@188.40.110.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20120322 23:16:38< shadowm> I'm always listening/reading.
20120322 23:20:16< fendrin> shadowm: You did not find anything suspicious, did you?
20120322 23:20:23< shadowm> yes, I did.
20120322 23:21:11< fendrin> Do you want to tell me?
20120322 23:21:22< shadowm> but I don't want to repaste, so please re-read everything after the point at which you said "I think I understand that part well"
20120322 23:22:00< shadowm> also note I did highlight you again after you left
20120322 23:22:55< fendrin> I have read it all.
20120322 23:23:41< fendrin> There are not all member fields initialized.
20120322 23:23:49< shadowm> then you'll know I didn't just find a lot of suspicious things, but I also rather accurately determined the cause of the black background glitch.
20120322 23:24:11< fendrin> The caching thing?
20120322 23:24:16< shadowm> yes
20120322 23:24:37< fendrin> Well, that is good to know.
20120322 23:24:47< fendrin> But it doesn't give me a clue or hint how to solve the problem.
20120322 23:24:52< shadowm> the incomplete constrictor initializer lists are more of a stylistic issue that would make me want to stay away from the guilty code units (along with the repeated statements in them as to "what is this thing I don't understand and commented out for?"
20120322 23:25:17< shadowm> the caching problem, you should have got it by this point but I'll rephrase
20120322 23:25:30< fendrin> Most likely that is code no longer needed or serving any purpose.
20120322 23:25:34< shadowm> the editor toolkit and the palette manager thing are initialized and placed when the whole screen is solid black
20120322 23:25:55< shadowm> that is the problem
20120322 23:26:49< fendrin> hmmmm
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20120322 23:28:06< shadowm> I also figured out why transparent images like the campfire tile icon get overpainted AGAIN, and I'm less than impressed.
20120322 23:30:11< shadowm> now, I don't feel like going over the 1.10 code to figure out at which point the palette was placed (and its _correct_ background cached) right now, so that will have to wait
20120322 23:33:28< IvanSav> fendrin: hi. I've found a crash - division by zero at editor_palettes.cpp:59 - item_width can be 0 if list is empty
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20120322 23:34:23< fendrin> IvanSav: Thanks. That is when you handle the empty palette right?
20120322 23:35:32< shadowm> on the other hand, the fact that the palette is initialized before the sidebar is painted may also explain why it only appears after the first mouse over event
20120322 23:35:46< Teugon> Hello,
20120322 23:35:46< Teugon> I've compiled the Soc apply template. I've putted it inside a copy of another Soc applicant html source but I'm not sure how to create my submitt page. Am I supposed to create it that way or I did wrong ?
20120322 23:35:51< shadowm> I am here hoping that does not imply, however, that it gets drawin from top to bottom every time
20120322 23:35:53< IvanSav> fendrin: yeah. For example when selection tool is active
20120322 23:35:55< shadowm> *drawn
20120322 23:36:23< shadowm> (simple English version: the sidebar is first painted on top of the palette)
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20120322 23:39:02< shadowm> also, editor_toolkit::palette_manager_ is a public member field of a  class. That shouldn't be in trunk.
20120322 23:44:17< fendrin> Okay, I delayed everything drawing related. I can't believe that the palette is drawn earlier than before the refactoring.
20120322 23:45:19< fendrin> The old palette was constructed in the editor_controller's constructor.
20120322 23:45:48< ejls> Teugon: Hi, you don't have to modify/look at the html source. Just copy the wikitext source (here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=SoC2012_Template_of_Student_page&action=edit) in a new page, in order to create a new page just point your browser to wiki.wesnoth.org/NameOfTheNewPage and click edit.
20120322 23:46:33< shadowm> I haven't ruled out the possibility that 1.10 uses a kludge to redraw it later following overpainting.
20120322 23:46:57< ejls> Teugon: For additional help, when editing a page, you can follow the link "editing help".
20120322 23:47:01< shadowm> s/redraw/re-place and redraw/
20120322 23:48:01< shadowm> it'd help if I could determine exactly where the editor's UI loop is
20120322 23:48:36< shadowm> of course. A creatively-named member method, editor_controller::main_loop().
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20120322 23:49:12< shadowm> why do people always use misleading names like- wait.
20120322 23:50:08< fendrin> Still, parts of my brain tell my to try the gui2 approach. Visions of a palette with a nice scrollbar come to my mind.
20120322 23:50:22< shadowm> here's what I see
20120322 23:50:45< shadowm> you and mordante fighting over the concept of GUI2 widgets floating around without a modal GUI2 container
20120322 23:51:28< fendrin> :-)
20120322 23:51:34< fendrin> :-)
20120322 23:52:27< fendrin> Would there be anything wrong with calling a gui2 window to be painted over the sidebar?
20120322 23:52:59< fendrin> I could use gui2 for the whole sidebar.
20120322 23:53:24< fendrin> There is nothing in it that can't be handled by gui2. Even the minimap widget is already in place.
20120322 23:53:41< shadowm> yes, for starters, gui2 windows in production are always modal
20120322 23:54:02< shadowm> if there's a way to make them non-modal then I suspect that's not officially supported
20120322 23:55:04< fendrin> sorry, I don't know the modal concept.
20120322 23:55:15< shadowm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_window
20120322 23:55:19< fendrin> thanks
20120322 23:55:43< fendrin> I see.
20120322 23:55:54< fendrin> You suspect gui2 dialogs to always block the rest.
20120322 23:56:10< shadowm> that's what all the gui2 dialogs used in production do.
20120322 23:56:26< fendrin> right
20120322 23:56:48< fendrin> Thus using gui2 for the sidebar means using gui2 for everything else.
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20120322 23:57:58< shadowm> yeah, and the titlescreen's design, and the new lobby make it painfully obvious that it's not really a good idea to render the theme UI and gamemap in a GUI2 window yet.
20120322 23:58:15< fendrin> Performance issues?
20120322 23:58:20< shadowm> design issues.
20120322 23:58:30< fendrin> Please tell me more.
20120322 23:58:54< shadowm> the titlescreen's GUI2 WML is full of magic numbers. It is no better than any theme UI WML.
20120322 23:59:19< fendrin> Yeah, and theme ui isn't that bad. At least I got used to it.
20120322 23:59:30< shadowm> the new lobby uses many widgets that have to be updated by external, non-user events and that scales horribly in practice.
20120322 23:59:48< Espreon> fendrin: Then improve the documentation. :)
20120322 23:59:48< shadowm> especially since some of them (e.g. listbox) are not finalized design-wise.
--- Log closed Fri Mar 23 00:00:18 2012