--- Log opened Tue Mar 27 00:00:59 2012
20120327 00:02:09< Crab_> Trademark_:  see ai::testing_ai_default::recruitment_phase , headers: testing/ca.hpp +72    implementation: recruitment_phase::evaluate in ca.cpp +179
20120327 00:02:18< Crab_> Trademark_: this is the implementation for recruitment itself
20120327 00:02:41< Crab_> Trademark_: also see aspect_recruitment_phase::evaluate
20120327 00:03:10< Crab_> Trademark_: basicly, aspect_recruitment_phase checks if we can recruit, and if we can, calls recruitment (the ai::testing_ai_default::recruitment_phase by default)
20120327 00:03:28< ejls> Crab_: Hi, for power_projection, I wrote https://gna.org/patch/?3185 , is there a problem with it? :(
20120327 00:03:36< Crab_> Trademark_: for example, note how aspect_recruitment_phase::evaluate misuses AI leaders - only one leader is considered.
20120327 00:04:18< Crab_> Trademark_: see recruitment_phase::evaluate, as well, that the main part of the implementation
20120327 00:05:02< Crab_> ejls: hello
20120327 00:05:37< Crab_> yes, some stuff: for example, if now is turn 30, and we are side 2, and our enemy is side 3, he will play on turn 30. while, if enemy is side 1, he will play on turn 31.
20120327 00:05:49< Crab_> (sorry for not writing the feedback on the patch page, btw)
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20120327 00:07:37< ejls> Hum, isn't if(un.side() < get_side()) ++attack_turn; enough ?
20120327 00:07:46< Crab_> sides go as 1,2,3,4
20120327 00:07:57< Crab_> if we are side 2, the sides 3 and 4 have not acted yet
20120327 00:08:08< Crab_> so, they will act on this turn, for them, this turn is not over yet
20120327 00:08:17< Crab_> while side 1 will only act on next turn, for them, this turn is over.
20120327 00:08:44< Crab_> (ah, sorry, my bad)
20120327 00:09:09< ejls> I'm not too attached to this patch, but well I just wanted to know. :)
20120327 00:09:17< Crab_> (let me check it once more, then)
20120327 00:10:28< ejls> Take your time, it's just I saw in the logs someone else is interrested in this EasyCoding and it would be better not to waste code.
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20120327 00:16:14< Crab_> ejls: ok, looks good, then. kill power_projection2, as well. 
20120327 00:20:22< ejls> The problem is that power_projection2 is called by aspect_attacks::do_attack_analysis which receive a (potentially NULL) pointer to readonly_context, so I don't see an easy way to remove power_projection2, it misses a context.
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20120327 00:22:07< Crab_> why 'potentially NULL' ?
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20120327 00:24:02< ejls> well, line 343 it's tested for NULLness, so I supposed it can be NULL.
20120327 00:24:11< Crab_> the code might be old
20120327 00:24:36< Crab_> I see only the call at line 111, where non-null this is passed to the function
20120327 00:24:49< Crab_> and the other call is recursive one
20120327 00:25:36< ejls> hum… ok. I'm posting another patch cleaning this then.
20120327 00:26:34< ejls> "I'm going to post" may be more correct. :)
20120327 00:27:26< Crab_> ok, thanks
20120327 00:27:32< Crab_> and sorry for taking so long with it
20120327 00:28:02< Crab_> also note that now you've fixed one additional thing as well
20120327 00:28:10< Crab_> you're using the unit's location to get the time-of-day
20120327 00:28:23< Crab_> this might be, potentially, a time-consuming operation
20120327 00:29:04< Crab_> so, if you want to, it'd be good to check it, e.g. by checking the length of the AI turn in Northern Rebirth campaign, in Showdown scenario, after playing for several turns
20120327 00:29:38< ejls> Hum… ok, it'll take a bit more time them, but I'm going to check this yeah.
20120327 00:29:47< Crab_> --log-debug=ai/manager would print this time, via     DBG_AI_MANAGER << "side " << side << ": total turn time: "<<turn_end_time - turn_start_time << " ms "<< std::endl;
20120327 00:30:05< ejls> Ok, thanks.
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20120327 00:31:06< Crab_> the worst case is for maps with a lot of caves
20120327 00:31:31< Crab_> but, I want to check the common case, with a big number of units but not special-ToD areas.
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20120327 00:54:19< vaulttech> is there anyone there?
20120327 00:54:23< vaulttech> I have a question
20120327 00:54:38< vaulttech> about the GSoC and the Wesnoth project
20120327 00:55:49< Espreon> I am here.
20120327 00:55:51< Espreon> wom 42
20120327 00:55:54< Espreon> Sorry.
20120327 00:55:55< shadowm> Maybe if you ask I could answer.
20120327 00:57:30< vaulttech> aa... thanks. It's not related to the process or such thing
20120327 00:57:43< vaulttech> my question is: is this the first year of Wesnoth in GSoC?
20120327 00:57:58< shadowm> no
20120327 00:58:31< shadowm> I think the first year was 2008; we've been in every year since
20120327 00:58:46< vaulttech> and can I know how many slots did you receive in the other times you participated in the GSoC?
20120327 00:59:15< shadowm> that I don't remember well; I think it's usually four
20120327 00:59:44< shadowm> last year it was four too
20120327 00:59:54< vaulttech> (I admit I'm kind of worried about my participation chances -- actually, in any project --, and I've been "collecting statistics" in order to have a better expectation on the future)
20120327 01:01:40< vaulttech> thanks for the information!
20120327 01:02:04< shadowm> sure, no problem
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20120327 01:03:03< Crab_> vaulttech: see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Information_for_Google#Did_your_organization_participate_in_past_GSoCs.3F_If_so.2C_please_summarize_your_involvement_and_the_successes_and_challenges_of_your_participation.
20120327 01:03:32< Crab_> (points 1.6 and 1.7)
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20120327 01:05:11< vaulttech> Crab_: thanks! Nice page! (I hadn't found it before)
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20120327 01:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 168 bugs, 326 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120327 02:12:41< alexmocanu> hello everyone :)
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20120327 05:22:56< vultraz_laptop> is compiling on Windows hard?
20120327 05:23:12< shadowm> yes
20120327 05:24:42< vultraz_laptop> :S
20120327 05:24:43< vultraz_laptop> crap
20120327 05:24:56< Espreon> Why?
20120327 05:25:18< Espreon> ... do you say that, vultraz_laptop?
20120327 05:25:35< vultraz_laptop> because I'm on my Windows laptop
20120327 05:25:45< Espreon> Ha ha.
20120327 05:25:49< shadowm> clearly not a Windows desktop
20120327 05:25:49< vultraz_laptop> and since I can't get wesnoth to work on the mac...
20120327 05:26:04< vultraz_laptop> I'd though I'd compile here
20120327 05:26:13< vultraz_laptop> shadowm: ?
20120327 05:26:17< vultraz_laptop> ohwwait
20120327 05:26:19< vultraz_laptop> nvm
20120327 05:27:03< shadowm> I'm sure anonymissimus would have a hell of a time helping you with that anyway.
20120327 05:27:24< shadowm> His motto is something along the lines of "the more Windows devs, the better".
20120327 05:27:41< vultraz_laptop> hehe
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20120327 06:16:59< CIA-69> jetryl * r53667 /trunk/data/core/ (26 files in 2 dirs): New graphics and animations for the spectre.
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20120327 06:21:57< CIA-69> jetryl * r53668 /trunk/changelog: changelog update
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20120327 09:21:02< vultraz_laptop> wesbot: seen SPoOkyMagician
20120327 09:21:02< wesbot> vultraz_laptop: The person with the nick SpoOkyMagician last spoke 8d 2h ago.  2d 6h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: meh
20120327 09:21:15< vultraz_laptop> -_-
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20120327 10:38:00< enchilado> hello
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20120327 11:26:37< CIA-69> elvish_hunter * r53669 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fixed bug #19531: scroll to reinforcement units in HttT - Blackwater Port
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20120327 12:20:24< uzyszkodnik> Soliton, hey i'm gsoc-wannabe student can i bug you for a second?
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20120327 12:30:06< uzyszkodnik> hmm anyone knows when soliton will be on irc?
20120327 12:30:24< elias> wesbot, seen Soliton
20120327 12:30:24< wesbot> elias: Queried user last spoke 14d 17h ago.  Soliton is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de.
20120327 12:30:40< elias> it seems he's here right now
20120327 12:31:31< uzyszkodnik> true but he seems to be afk
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20120327 13:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 167 bugs, 326 feature requests, 22 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120327 15:23:31< trademark__> Crab_, thank you for the explanations. Anyways I have a question, why are there redundant code ? (in ca.cpp and ca_testing_recruitment.cpp ; function evaluate) What is the differences between these two classes ("testing_recruitment_phase" and "recruitment_phase") ?
20120327 15:25:01< trademark__> Crab_, well forget this, I just understood that testing was an experimental class.
20120327 15:25:22< Crab_> trademark__: AI is made from pieces (components, such as stages and aspects and candidate actions
20120327 15:25:38< Crab_> trademark__: the source code can have multiple versions, if we want to test something, and let the default AI stay unchanged
20120327 15:25:48< Crab_> trademark__: look at http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/ai/ais/testing_ai_default.cfg?revision=48170&view=markup - that's default AI
20120327 15:26:35< Crab_> trademark__: then look at http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/core/macros/ai_candidate_actions.cfg?revision=48170&view=markup to see how AI_CA_RECRUITMENT expands, it expands to testing_ai_default::aspect_recruitment_phase
20120327 15:26:57< trademark__> ChrisOelmueller, thanks
20120327 15:27:01< trademark__> oups
20120327 15:27:05< trademark__> Crab_, thanks
20120327 15:27:30< Crab_> then look at http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/registry.cpp?revision=52533&view=markup to see what "testing_ai_default::aspect_recruitment_phase" means in terms of C++ classes, it will expand to testing_ai_default::aspect_recruitment_phase class.
20120327 15:28:07< Crab_> then, in http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/testing/ca.cpp?revision=53551&view=markup, look at how testing_ai_default::aspect_recruitment_phase works (in void aspect_recruitment_phase::execute() )
20120327 15:28:36< Crab_> you'll see that it delegates to an aspect, via get_recruitment(*this) call
20120327 15:29:22< Crab_> (skipping some files here, but trust me that it uses the "recruitment" aspect)
20120327 15:29:45< Crab_> then, see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/ai/utils/default_config.cfg?revision=40379&view=markup - it's the default cfg used for aspects of the AI
20120327 15:30:09< Crab_> it has [aspect] id=recruitment with value of [value] engine=cpp name=ai_default::recruitment [/value]
20120327 15:30:25< Crab_> again, go to http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/registry.cpp?revision=52533&view=markup to see what's the C++ class for ai_default::recruitment 
20120327 15:31:09< Crab_> it's  a class called 'ai_default_recruitment_stage'
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20120327 15:31:54< Crab_> but it has a few other string => c++ class  mappings which are usable for recruitment
20120327 15:32:00< Crab_> for example, see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/ai/dev/testing_recruiting.cfg?revision=47710&view=markup
20120327 15:32:09< Crab_> it's an ai config which uses a testing_ai_default::testing_recruitment_phase
20120327 15:32:25< trademark__> before starting reading and understand these files, you will maybe think I'm stupid, but I would like to know what you called an "aspect" if there is some theory to learn, please tell me.
20120327 15:32:26< Crab_> registry.cpp can tell that testing_ai_default::testing_recruitment_phase is in testing_ai_default::testing_recruitment_phase class
20120327 15:32:51< Crab_> see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8#Tweaking_AI_parameters_.28_via_.5Baspect.5D_tags_.29
20120327 15:33:02< Crab_> basically, aspect is the AI parameter which can change over time.
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20120327 15:34:05< trademark__> okay, I read it and if I've got a question or another I will bother you again.
20120327 15:36:50< Crab_> basically, returning to your question once more: we read a text ai config, and navigate from config values to C++ classes. so, we can have multiple versions of C++ classes in the code, and select the one we want via the text config.
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20120327 15:59:25< trademark__> Crab_, am I wrong if I say AI doesn't take into account "group of unit" but only consider units by units ?
20120327 15:59:44< Crab_> you are mostly correct.
20120327 15:59:56< trademark__> ok :)
20120327 15:59:56< Crab_> AI checks 'multiple attackers vs one defender' when planning attacks
20120327 16:00:23< Crab_> also, some secondary (and not very important) calculations involve iteration over all enemy units and adding some numbers up.
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20120327 16:01:44< uzyszkodnik> Soliton, can i take you a second?
20120327 16:03:49< uzyszkodnik> wesbot, seen Soliton
20120327 16:03:50< wesbot> uzyszkodnik: Queried user last spoke 14d 20h ago.  Soliton is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de.
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20120327 16:22:05< nagafono> hi, is there a way to write a formula like in mediawiki/tex style in Wesnoth GSoC ideas wiki? 
20120327 16:25:58< Crab_> nagafono: see what we've got: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Special:Version
20120327 16:26:37< Crab_> nagafono: so, either upload images to forum and link to them, or recommend an extension to be installed, if it's easy enough I might be able to do it.
20120327 16:29:29< nagafono> Crab_: here it is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Math
20120327 16:30:38< Crab_> nagafono: not compatible (it requires 1.18 while we have 1.15.1)
20120327 16:30:57< nagafono> i can write it not in formal way but well, dunno how you would undrstand it. perhaps in converstaion we can discuss the details without  formulas on wiki
20120327 16:31:08< Crab_> And sorry, I don't want to update the wiki version now, since it's actively used by GSoC applicants.
20120327 16:31:10< nagafono> im writing total defence strategy
20120327 16:31:38< Crab_> I recommend keeping the formulas locally and then linking to images on wiki
20120327 16:31:51< nagafono> so as you understand there is no way to describe everything without formulas
20120327 16:31:58< nagafono> oh, ok i get it
20120327 16:32:29< Crab_> 9let me know if this won't work out)
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20120327 17:40:13< hankerspace> When a message is displayed, the method twml_message_::pre_show is called, after twml_message_::post_show but i can't find the method when the player press a key and when the message is supposed to dissapear :s
20120327 17:40:24< hankerspace> is anyone know ?
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20120327 18:17:08< nagafono> Crab_ : i added an app on site. check it if you are interested and have a time: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2012_LineDefenceStrategy
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20120327 18:31:52< AI0867> boucman: I wasn't, someone else was
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20120327 18:40:20< Ivanovic> hi
20120327 18:40:39< gabba> hi Ivanovic
20120327 18:40:40< hankerspace> hi Ivanovic
20120327 18:40:47< Ivanovic> hi gabba
20120327 18:40:59< Ivanovic> gabba: please tell me your link id so that i can send you a mentor invite
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20120327 18:50:59< gabba> Ivanovic: It's gabba ;) . I hadn't applied for mentorship yet on melange, but I just did so I should have a 2012 profile now.
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20120327 19:03:35< gabba> Hey ejls :) !
20120327 19:04:06< Crab_> nagafono: looking at it now..
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20120327 19:05:03< gabba> ejls: Thinking about your mail's questions now. Your patch looks good, especially since nobody had reported that particular bug.
20120327 19:05:48< ejls> gabba: Hi, good to know. :)
20120327 19:07:15< gamboa> gabba? I'm vaulttech (unfortunatelly, I can't enter with my name because I left my computer on at home). Did you see my subscription for your idea?
20120327 19:07:42< gamboa> (I think I'll have to update the wiki saying that I'll enter with this name too)
20120327 19:08:19< Crab_> (yes, updating the wiki is a good thing :) )
20120327 19:09:35< gamboa> Crab_: lol... yes! I agree =)
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20120327 19:11:29< Ivanovic> gabba: invite sent
20120327 19:11:56< Crab_> nagafono: ok, I've read the wiki page. so far, the basic idea looks good, the implementation looks vague but I guess we have to try various approaches until we see what works.
20120327 19:12:02< Crab_> nagafono: for example, I think that the ctk should play an role in forming of defensive lines, but your current formulas don't take it into account at all - while, for example, having a wounded unit with 14/41 hp might be totally different from the same unit having 15/41 hp
20120327 19:12:41< Crab_> nagafono: for now, the most important thing for you is to compile wesnoth and to fix 1-2 bugs (might be any bugs, not just something related to gsoc)
20120327 19:12:58< Crab_> nagafono: this is required for us to see that you can code and work on wesnoth.
20120327 19:15:41< nagafono> Crab_: sure, that was only basics. as i wrote, there should be some strategy factors. for example if ai's opponent has superior advantage there is a need to make a risk and put wounded units in the line (for example, 7/32 shammie in the forest) . 
20120327 19:16:37< nagafono> so the paragraphs of the idea are line keep and global strategy
20120327 19:17:07< Crab_> I think that if you devote enough time into trying various approaches, you'll see what works and what doesn't work for the AI.
20120327 19:17:18< Crab_> since, the basic idea is ok, and we only need to figure out the math
20120327 19:17:21< nagafono> 'cause line state is very depending on strategy
20120327 19:17:22< nagafono> yep
20120327 19:17:35< gabba> Hi gamboa, haven't had a chance to take a look yet. Will do soon :) .
20120327 19:17:40< nagafono> about patches: i am going to do it
20120327 19:18:00< Crab_> even if we ask AI to do the line (or line combined with retreat) during bad time of day, it should improve things a lot.
20120327 19:18:05< Crab_> so, do patches, it's very important.
20120327 19:19:56< nagafono> Crab_: i suppose the choise of patch's task is not really matter? 'cause i think to get candidate action for leader control
20120327 19:20:07< gamboa> ok... no problems =) I think I need to take a better look at the code. Today I intend to do this and maybe take a look at the bugs list
20120327 19:20:49< Crab_> nagafono: I suggest going for some easy patches, i.e. look at the bug list to see if there is any really easy stuff in there (usually, there is)
20120327 19:21:21< nagafono> Crab_: ok thx, i suppose any questions about that i can ask here too?
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20120327 19:24:12< Crab_> yes
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20120327 19:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 167 bugs, 326 feature requests, 24 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120327 19:50:51< gabba> ejls, still around?
20120327 19:53:49< anonymissimus> shadowm: lool, yes, it is; mostly for pure egoistic reasons though
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20120327 19:55:41< anonymissimus> vultraz_laptop: and well no, it isn't hard atm since the lib/header packages and projectfiles should be up to date
20120327 19:56:28< vultraz_laptop> anonymissimus: what besides the source code do I need?
20120327 19:56:32< vultraz_laptop> scons?
20120327 19:56:36-!- shadowm_laptop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120327 19:56:43< vultraz_laptop> or does windows use something else
20120327 19:56:55< anonymissimus> vultraz_laptop: try the (2) guide here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows
20120327 19:57:43< uzyszkodnik> wesbot, seen Crab_
20120327 19:57:44< wesbot> uzyszkodnik: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 33m 32s ago.  10m 13s ago they left with the message: Quit: Crab_
20120327 19:57:44< anonymissimus> I'm pretty sure the MSVC2010 package should be up to date, and I just fixed the solution for the GSoC people
20120327 19:58:13< anonymissimus> not so sure about the 2008 package
20120327 19:58:28< vultraz_laptop> so I need VS installed
20120327 20:00:16< vultraz_laptop> isn't that like a 2.5 GB download?
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20120327 20:15:16< Chopper> u can also use code::blocks i think (and that is not so heavy as VS2010)
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20120327 20:18:18< Crab_> uzyszkodnik: if you'd have any questions, leave them in the log.
20120327 20:18:19< anonymissimus> yes, but thats not suitable for editing the code
20120327 20:18:28-!- Crab_ [Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Client Quit]
20120327 20:18:44< anonymissimus> unless you are confident without intellisense etc
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20120327 20:20:42< nick394|2> hi all=)
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20120327 20:24:18< nick394> devs,could you tell me, where DIALOG_RESULT is defined?
20120327 20:25:08< shadowm> shadowm@reicore:~/src/wesnoth$ fgrep -nRI DIALOG_RESULT src
20120327 20:25:08< shadowm> src/show_dialog.hpp:34:enum DIALOG_RESULT {
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20120327 20:27:37< nick394> thank you, shadowm
20120327 20:28:22< shadowm> np
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20120327 20:40:41< gabba> gamboa/vaulttech: Took a look at your page, but there's not much to comment on for the moment. Also for the love of proper english, please find the correct spelling of "cronogram". And then preferably use the more common "calendar" ;) .
20120327 20:42:01-!- nick394 [~nick394@wn2nat45.beelinegprs.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20120327 20:42:28< gabba> vaulttech: Also, I suggest using a similar name like vaulttech_ or vaulttech1 when you're on a different computer, to avoid confusion.
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20120327 20:49:36< mordante> servus
20120327 20:50:17< shadowm> buenas tardes
20120327 20:51:02< mordante> hi shadowm 
20120327 20:51:37< hankerspace> Hi mordante
20120327 20:51:43< mordante> hi hankerspace 
20120327 20:52:40< hankerspace> Have you already work on the game_events.cpp file mordante ?
20120327 20:53:13< mordante> hankerspace,  what do you exactly mean?
20120327 20:54:09< shadowm> nagafono: I noticed you added a GSoC student proposal page to the wiki, but you haven't had your forum account added to the Summer of Code group yet
20120327 20:54:33< hankerspace> I try to found the method called when a message is skip (during scenario, when a npc talks for example, the player have to press a key to skip)
20120327 20:54:46< nagafono> shadowm: yep im not, shouldnt i be accepted first?
20120327 20:55:08< shadowm> nagafono: all candidates are added first, as you can see: http://forums.wesnoth.org/memberlist.php?mode=group&g=6644
20120327 20:55:11< hankerspace> I've found the method called when the message is displayed but not when it's over
20120327 20:55:37< shadowm> nagafono: the SummerOfCodeIdeas page also specifies you can ask to be added
20120327 20:56:13< nagafono> shadowm: ok then, i will ask about it
20120327 20:56:16< nagafono> thx
20120327 20:56:21< shadowm> nagafono: I'm the forum admin, I can add you :)
20120327 20:56:34< nagafono> shadowm: would be nice then :)
20120327 20:56:57< shadowm> done
20120327 20:57:04< mordante> hankerspace, can you point to where in the source you mean?
20120327 21:00:08< hankerspace> for example, in wml_message.cpp, i've found twml_message_::pre_show() method called before message display (to set text, etc ...) 
20120327 21:01:48< ejls> gabba: re
20120327 21:01:57< Chopper> shadowm: Could I be added also on the student group in the forums?
20120327 21:03:17< Chopper> Same name as IRC is used.
20120327 21:04:09< shadowm> Chopper: done
20120327 21:04:26 * shadowm goes afk now
20120327 21:04:33< Chopper> ty
20120327 21:10:38< mordante> hankerspace, after the message is shown the post_show... somehow feel that's not what you mean...
20120327 21:13:51< vultraz_laptop> mordante: if I have a widget that wiil remain constant (eg I won;t be changing it), does it need an id=?
20120327 21:14:02< gabba> ejls: I answered your mail, we can discuss it further here if you want
20120327 21:14:11< vultraz_laptop> basically, are ids for widgets mandatory 
20120327 21:15:42< anonymissimus> fendrin_: it would have been nice if you had updated wmllint for your map format changes so I wouldn't need to go over the new false positived to catch the right positives of different context
20120327 21:16:34< vaulttech> gabba: Thanks for reading the page. Sorry for the "cronogram" misspelling. As you can see, I'm not a native english speaker
20120327 21:16:45< IvanSav> mordante: hi. can you check my GSoC application? Is there something else Addon Server will need or should be done differently?
20120327 21:17:59< hankerspace> Yeah, i've seen the post_shown mordante but that's during text input i guess, i find the method called when the key is pressed (a kind of undraw), if you odn't know, i'll continue to search, no problem.
20120327 21:18:28< ejls> gabba: Hum, well my idea for side_action was to use a single std::list to store all the actions and then a std::deque<std::list<action_ptr>>::iterator for the turn limits. It would simplify the code a lot but some operation would be slower…
20120327 21:18:53< ejls> heuuu std::deque<std::list<action_ptr>::iterator> I mean. :)
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20120327 21:20:25< ejls> gabba: is it sounding sane to you?
20120327 21:20:38< gabba> vaulttech: yeah, me neither. 
20120327 21:22:15< gabba> ejls: Well, performance-wise a list is not very efficient for something that is read much more often than it is updated
20120327 21:22:36< gabba> ejls: but then, performance is probably not our main concern as long as it is decent
20120327 21:23:18< ejls> Yes but it's the sole sequenced std:: container with iterators not invalidated by insertion and deletion.
20120327 21:23:51< gabba> ejls: true, iterator invalidation does complicate our life quite a bit
20120327 21:24:19< mordante> vultraz_laptop, not per se
20120327 21:24:21< gabba> ejls: what would be the purpose of the deque?
20120327 21:24:28< gabba> not following you very well there
20120327 21:24:30< ejls> So, I've also looked at boost::multi_index_container, but the random_access index is non mutable so it would cause more problems…
20120327 21:24:51< ejls> quick access to the begining/end of each turn.
20120327 21:24:51< vultraz_laptop> mordante: also is definition =  necessary in every widget?
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20120327 21:25:18< mordante> vultraz_laptop, no it should fallback to "default" by default
20120327 21:25:40< gabba> ejls: so you'd keep each turn in its own std::list?
20120327 21:25:52< ejls> The other solution would be to write it in wb::action or to create a new action wb::end_turn but I think it's more a job of side_action and it shouldn't leak into other parts otherwise it won't simplify the code.
20120327 21:26:02< gabba> ^ok no, I re-read what you said
20120327 21:26:24< mordante> hankerspace, maybe you're looking for twindow::click_dismiss()
20120327 21:26:33< gabba> ejls: a deque of iterators makes sense
20120327 21:26:38< mordante> IvanSav, do you have a link?
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20120327 21:27:46< ejls> Yes, but then operations like "when should this action be executed" are slower…
20120327 21:27:57< IvanSav> mordante: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2012_Ivan_Addon_Server
20120327 21:28:24< ejls> And currently, the bump-down/up network packets use index in the deque.
20120327 21:28:32< ejls> That would be slower too.
20120327 21:29:01< gabba> ejls: I mean that std::deque<std::list<action_ptr>::iterator> sounds good now that I read it correctly. Overall I like your approach.
20120327 21:30:26< ejls> Ok, well I'll try to devellop it at much as possible. The fact that there isn't empty turn help a lot too, otherwise we should keep the begining and the end of each turn which cause some others problems.
20120327 21:31:30< ejls> I think my investigations in this part are pretty good, but I need to think a bit more about the mapbuilder/validator problem. :)
20120327 21:32:10< gabba> Yeah, properly integrating all the existing functionality is gonna be the most work.
20120327 21:32:55< ejls> Well, appart from these two things (side_action and the map building), do you have any other area in mind which might need some work.
20120327 21:33:34< hankerspace> I'll see that mordante
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20120327 21:34:26< gabba> ejls: There's the highlighter which should partially fold into your new system.
20120327 21:35:02< gabba> By which I mean that most info it needs should be pre-cached during mapbuilding
20120327 21:36:21< gabba> And the same applies for most systems that currently redundantly go over the whole action queue to find out which hexes have units with actions, which units have actions, which actions are linked to a specific hex, and so on.
20120327 21:37:46< ejls> Ok, I see, that's all the visitors actually…
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20120327 21:38:19< mordante> IvanSav, I still don't like the mandatory forum account, we don't have such a requirement at the moment
20120327 21:38:46< mordante> also means if the forum is down you can't upload addons
20120327 21:39:07< IvanSav> that's good point
20120327 21:39:08< hankerspace> mordante: it seems good, thanks a lot for your help.
20120327 21:39:17< mordante> hankerspace, you're welcome
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20120327 21:39:26< shadowm_laptop> IvanSav, mordante the forum is _very_ rarely down while campaignd is up
20120327 21:40:06< ejls> gabba: well, thanks, I'll try to put my proposal on the wiki by friday.
20120327 21:40:24 * mordante remembers several forum crashes...
20120327 21:40:30< IvanSav> mordante: i'm not against keeping existing system
20120327 21:40:49< shadowm_laptop> mordante: from how long ago? ever since I took over I've kept downtimes to the very minimum required for maintenance tasks
20120327 21:41:09< shadowm_laptop> and when the database server crashes, the forum is usually not the only db affected
20120327 21:41:43< IvanSav> mordante: but almost all authors have account anyway - don't see a problem from requiring registration
20120327 21:41:46< gabba> ejls: sounds good! A second, a bit larger patch would also be nice to give me a better idea of your programming abilities.
20120327 21:41:49< shadowm_laptop> yes, I remember the forum tended to crash a lot back in the day before we hosted it ourselves
20120327 21:43:08< mordante> shadowm_laptop, I don't know how long ago exactly but we had several of them
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20120327 21:43:29< mordante> and I don't know whether that was bad maintenance or bad luck
20120327 21:44:09< shadowm_laptop> very long ago, that's the answer
20120327 21:44:52< shadowm_laptop> there are short crashes nowadays caused by the whole machine rebooting via abnormal means, but that doesn't stick for more than a few minutes either (after minutes or hours of complete unavailability of all services, not just the forums)
20120327 21:45:29< mordante> IvanSav, is Ukraine also in GMT+2 during the summer?
20120327 21:45:55< ejls> gabba: Ok, I'll do that. And to answer your email: yes, I live in Paris. :)
20120327 21:45:59< IvanSav> mordante: missed that - we're in +3 right now
20120327 21:46:01< shadowm_laptop> so, in general: if you don't want forum registration, don't use downtimes as an excuse because you've got plenty of those that don't affect only the forums
20120327 21:46:25< mordante> IvanSav, guessed so western europe in now in GMT +2
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20120327 21:46:56< mordante> shadowm_laptop, I already said I don't want it before _one_ of the reasons is the coupling itself
20120327 21:47:32< mordante> but not another reason that I don't think we should make a forum account mandatory
20120327 21:48:09 * anonymissimus would make it mandatory to also read and post now and then in the forum since it's great for keeping ground contact with wml authors and players
20120327 21:48:36< shadowm_laptop> all I saw is an irrelevant condition
20120327 21:48:36< shadowm_laptop> *was
20120327 21:48:47 * anonymissimus especially for thonsew-ish people
20120327 21:49:38< mordante> shadowm_laptop, I said I _still_ don't like it, hence refer to past event and then said _also_ the downtime
20120327 21:49:56< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53670 /trunk/data/themes/editor.cfg: 
20120327 21:49:56< CIA-69> fix some spelling mistakes wmllint complains about
20120327 21:49:56< CIA-69> It also spams warnings about the maps which are already converted
20120327 21:49:56< CIA-69> to use the [map] child.
20120327 21:50:07< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53671 /trunk/src/side_filter.cpp: add support for ranges of sides in SSF (patch #3208 by Brilliand)
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53672 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: (log message trimmed)
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> Introduce SSF support in [filter][filter_vision].
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> Deprecate viewing_side= in favor of the SSF's side=.
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> Semantics in case of empty filter changes from "all enemy sides"
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> to "all sides". If a side isn't an enemy, it can usually see
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> the unit anyway, and just in case the SSF has [enemy_of].
20120327 21:50:27< CIA-69> wmllint rule to come.
20120327 21:50:27< Crendgrim> eh... the whole MP account registration is based on the forums, and I don't recall to ever read complaints about that not working. So, it's unlikely to happen often, or people would have complained more. So, where are the disadvantages of linking an add-on to a forum account?
20120327 21:50:40< shadowm_laptop> mordante: yes, and the downtime excuse is irrelevant, not really valid anymore, and steps into _my_ territory as the forum admin :)
20120327 21:50:40< mordante> IvanSav, did a lot with C++11?
20120327 21:50:41< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53673 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: 
20120327 21:50:41< CIA-69> cheap wmllint rule for viewing_side -> side
20120327 21:50:41< CIA-69> Global renaming; there is only 1 false positive in my addons
20120327 21:50:41< CIA-69> and none in mainline. I hope nobody uses this string as a tag
20120327 21:50:42< CIA-69> or variable name.
20120327 21:50:44< IvanSav> mordante: one more reason - I found several addons that have either typos in author name or a bit different wording - this makes finding author much more complicated
20120327 21:51:04< shadowm_laptop> Crendgrim: the MP account registration thing is optional; if wesnothd cannot contact the db it'll let everyone in as unregistered
20120327 21:51:10< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53674 /trunk/data/ (15 files in 8 dirs): viewing_side -> side in mainline wml
20120327 21:51:34< Crendgrim> shadowm_laptop: right, but esp. the ladder player would have noticed if it didn't work regularly.
20120327 21:51:40< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53675 /trunk/src/terrain_filter.cpp: introduce [filter_vision]<SSF> in SLFs (patch #3209 by brilliand)
20120327 21:51:41< shadowm_laptop> but unlike add-ons, people won't go around looking in the forums for support. I think users would benefit a lot if there was always a clear way to contact add-on maintainers
20120327 21:51:43< mordante> IvanSav, yeah I read that in your proposal
20120327 21:51:56< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53676 /trunk/data/scenario-test.cfg: test cases for previous revision (patch by brilliand)
20120327 21:52:01< IvanSav> mordante: had a bit of those, mostly university projects which do not have language requirements
20120327 21:52:18< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53677 /trunk/changelog: changelog update
20120327 21:52:19< Crendgrim> also, how often are add-ons uploaded to the server?
20120327 21:53:01< mordante> no idea
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20120327 21:54:41< IvanSav> Crendgrim: just ran wesnoth_addon_manager - mostly < 10 times, some addons have up to 30 uploads. 
20120327 21:54:55< mordante> IvanSav, regarding the timeline I think it looks a bit optimistic and needs more details
20120327 21:55:25< mordante> IvanSav, also for example the wmllint integration is not really required so prefer that as an optional milestone at the end
20120327 21:55:36< Crendgrim> IvanSav: yeah, I was more interested in the uploads per day
20120327 21:56:16< mordante> I've also no idea how well wmllint works in practice; meaning whether running wmllint automatically makes the addon working with the latest WML
20120327 21:56:20< shadowm_laptop> FTR I don't want wmllint to be mandatory for add-ons.
20120327 21:56:26< IvanSav> mordante: ok
20120327 21:56:46< shadowm_laptop> In fact, it would be detrimental for one of my own add-ons.
20120327 21:56:46< mordante> I think there are some times it doesn't work since the rules can't be defined properly
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20120327 21:57:10< mordante> IvanSav, are you familiar with LaTeX?
20120327 21:57:33< IvanSav> mordante: no
20120327 21:57:38< shadowm_laptop> and yes, wmllint usually doesn't guess the correct fixes, or directly requires the author to do hand-fixing on purpose
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20120327 21:58:13< shadowm_laptop> in particular, wmllint doesn't interact well with embedded Lua _at all_
20120327 21:58:14< IvanSav> mordante: i even can't compile current document - some weird errors :(
20120327 21:58:25< mordante> what error?
20120327 21:59:26< IvanSav> mordante: File utf8x.def not found
20120327 21:59:54< mordante> what OS do you use? 
20120327 22:00:04< IvanSav> mordante: linux ubuntu
20120327 22:00:43< anonymissimus> wmllint has probs with embeddded lua yes
20120327 22:01:22< anonymissimus> however, I don't get the point of embedding lua which has more than a few lines so just putting it into .lua files is the way to go
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20120327 22:03:32< mordante> IvanSav, try to install texlive-latex-extra
20120327 22:05:05< anonymissimus> also, it'd be a hell of problems to run wmllint onto most content in the addons server xD
20120327 22:05:31< anonymissimus> mostly due to poor wml
20120327 22:07:14< IvanSav> mordante: looks to be it. thanks.
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20120327 22:14:36< mordante> you're welcome
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20120327 22:15:39< mordante> IvanSav, you're proposal looks fine for an initial draft
20120327 22:16:12< mordante> IvanSav, in general we like patches from contributors to show what they're capable of
20120327 22:16:48< mordante> I don't know a good patch in this area, but maybe a simple proof of concept using boost asio
20120327 22:18:22< mordante> I'm off now
20120327 22:18:32< IvanSav> mordante: ok. what I should have in this proof-of-concept?
20120327 22:19:06< mordante> IvanSav, I think an "upload" function and query list of addons
20120327 22:19:11< Chopper> For the two patches required, we must work in the field of our project?
20120327 22:19:38< mordante> where the upload function just store the name of the addon and maybe some extra fields for the querying
20120327 22:20:09< mordante> Chopper, not per se, but it's often preferred
20120327 22:20:20< IvanSav> mordante: got it
20120327 22:20:54< Chopper> I see, ty.
20120327 22:20:55< mordante> regarding asio I think we should use asynchronous calls and use strands
20120327 22:24:17< mordante> really of now, bye
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20120327 22:26:25< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: the guy named Silas Brill (brilliand) has 3 patches or so in now; so he could get write access
20120327 22:27:21< anonymissimus> (the other ones were apllied by AI/mordante and thonsew (umm...))
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20120327 22:33:01< Crab_> Ayne: hello. I've read through your wiki page
20120327 22:33:32< Ayne> hey
20120327 22:33:45< Crab_> Ayne: for now, the most important thing (apart from playing, of course :) ) is to compile wesnoth and try to fix a small issue or two.
20120327 22:34:23< Crab_> Ayne: we really want to know that our students can code, so that's why we ask to provide some patches. they do not have to be related to GSoC (can just be some small bugfixes), or they can be related
20120327 22:34:46< Ayne> ok, i'll have a look
20120327 22:35:08< Ayne> do you have any suggestions? anything that might be related to the project maybe?
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20120327 22:36:49< Crab_> Ayne: for bugs, there's plenty of easy bugs out there. for example, https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?19538 might be easy to fix.
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20120327 22:38:52< Crab_> Ayne: for project-related, a good thing to do would be to add a new log domain (or several new log domains) to src/playcampaign.cpp and add some heavy logging in there, to ensure we can turn the logs on and learn what's going on there.
20120327 22:39:24< Crab_> as a side effect, you'd be more familiar with what the code does and when it is called. 
20120327 22:39:52< Crab_> so, later, we'll be able to discuss what I want to be done during the project (it would touch this file a lot)
20120327 22:45:34< Crab_> Ayne: ask questions, if necessary (just leave them in the logs with my name, I check the logs to see if there're any questions; or leave them at google's tracker where you've submitted your application). and good luck. 
20120327 22:46:09< Ayne> ok, thanks, I'll try a bug for now, but I think I'll definitely tackle playcampaign.cpp as soon as I can, university deadlines permitting
20120327 22:46:55< Crab_> Ayne: also, if possible, try to understand how scenario config gets created in singleplayer and in multiplayer.  for example, make your own small test campaign with several scenarios (there's plenty of howto manuals and examples for that, on wesnoth's forums - also, you can ask questions on the forums if there'll be trouble)
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20120327 22:47:29< Crab_> Ayne: during the project, we'll need to use that test campaign to test some things, so it'll be useful later. also, you'll understand how difficulty levels work.
20120327 22:48:09< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: then ask him if he wants access and ask him to apply referencing you
20120327 22:49:47< Crab_> Ayne: concentrate on most important things first - so, you'll spend not a big amount of time but do the things we want - and I want to see (1) how well you code (2) can you finish things you've started doing (3) do you have enough understanding of the things we want done 
20120327 22:50:28< Crab_> Ayne: but, in any case, good luck and have fun.
20120327 22:50:41< Ayne> Crab_: thank you
20120327 22:58:15< Crab_> hankerspace: I've left some minor comments about your patch ( https://gna.org/patch/index.php?3203 )
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20120327 23:02:06< hankerspace> Ok Crab_ i've seen, i'll fix it.
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20120327 23:07:06< vaulttech> Hey... could someone help me?
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20120327 23:07:43< Crab_> vaulttech: what's up?
20120327 23:08:07< vaulttech> I'm trying to get a better understand on what does the proposal about the "refactoring the whiteboard" mean
20120327 23:09:01< vaulttech> I already understand what is the manager class, and some other classes, like the action class and its "children": the specific actions you can do
20120327 23:10:17< vaulttech> ok... but in the proposal idea it was written that there was a "validator" that asked informations to the whiteboard (and the idea was optimize, for example, caching this information -- and integrating these two "entities")
20120327 23:10:48< vaulttech> the problem is that I simply can't find this "validator". The class "validator_visitor" seems not to be it D=
20120327 23:11:51< vaulttech> and, well, it was said that whenever the planned actions changed, the validator should be called, and, well, I didn't find these calls (even in the parts of the code I was expecting the plans to change)
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20120327 23:12:44< Crab_> vaulttech: basically, in wesnoth, there are game rules. for example, rule that you can only only attack enemy units.
20120327 23:13:10< Crab_> vaulttech: wesnoth's game state can change rapidly by WML trickery (i.e., an event can change almost anything)
20120327 23:13:37< Crab_> vaulttech: so, this is a problem for the whiteboard, which allows the player to set some hypothetical modifications to the game state.
20120327 23:14:00< Crab_> vaulttech: and the whiteboard authors have not done it well on the first try, and so now they want it to be done slightly better.
20120327 23:14:10< Crab_> makes sense so far?
20120327 23:14:15< vaulttech> yeah, perfectly
20120327 23:16:50< vaulttech> Crab_: yeah, perfectly (sorry... I always forget to tag the people I'm talking to -- I'm not used to IRC yet)
20120327 23:16:59< Crab_> vaulttech: it's ok
20120327 23:17:19< Crab_> vaulttech: so, some modifications are done not in the 'best possible' way, so they might be slower than optimal.
20120327 23:17:36< Crab_> although I think we mostly care about not crashing or misbehaving, and speed is more like a minor issue.
20120327 23:19:30< Crab_> then, I do not know exactly what is now inside the whiteboard, but I suspect that they have messed things up; talk to gabba to find out exactly, how. I think that the whiteboard should reuse the 'main game rules' as far as possible.
20120327 23:20:04< Crab_> the base idea was to reapply the planned actions after each player's move, to see what planned actions are allowed and what are no longer possible.
20120327 23:20:38< Crab_> and, right now, checking  if action is allowed or not is quite hard - i.e. it's done in 3 different places for different purposes
20120327 23:20:46< hankerspace> Crab_: patch modification done.
20120327 23:21:03< Crab_> hankerspace: great
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20120327 23:22:54< vaulttech> Ok... so somewhere in the reapply code there should be some code asking what are the allowed actions and what are not... and this is what gabba probably called "validator"?
20120327 23:24:25< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: okay, added him in
20120327 23:24:25< vaulttech> (i.e., this is what is "strange" at the code and that would be nice to change, right? -- I know these aren't trivial questions and that I should be going by my own, but, ok, if you know, it would be great =))
20120327 23:24:37< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: please make sure that he knows what to do for actual committing
20120327 23:24:41< Ivanovic> i am off now, n8
20120327 23:25:45< hankerspace> N8 Ivanovic
20120327 23:25:47< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: ?? pls don't be so quick
20120327 23:26:05< anonymissimus> I just told you in case he speaks with you
20120327 23:26:27< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: you said he had the patches in, i got the request from him and added him now
20120327 23:26:56< anonymissimus> hm...ok
20120327 23:27:39< anonymissimus> and yes, I think he knows his way pretty well on his own
20120327 23:29:08< Crab_> vaulttech: no, it's ok to ask nontrivial questions
20120327 23:29:35< Crab_> vaulttech: but, I haven't looked into that part of the code much. so, ask gabba, but, if it'd be hard to catch him, ping me and I'll try to take a look
20120327 23:30:00< Crab_> vaulttech: in general, yes, after each action, he needs to do a validating pass over all actions to see if they are still valid, or invalid
20120327 23:30:26< Crab_> vaulttech: if you're familiar with git terminology, it is more-or-less equivalent to rebasing local against upstream
20120327 23:30:44< Crab_> vaulttech: where 'upstream' is the game state after the action, and our 'local commits' are planned moves
20120327 23:31:13< Crab_> vaulttech: previously, our 'planned moves' were based on OLD game state. now, they're based on NEW game state, so we need to do a rebase (and some actions might be no longer valid)
20120327 23:31:28< vaulttech> ok...
20120327 23:31:30< Crab_> i.e., after a move, anything can happen because of WML, anything can change, even the map or the units or gold or whatever
20120327 23:32:13< vaulttech> yeah, and you have to be sure of the consistency of everything.
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20120327 23:32:32< boucman> hey all
20120327 23:32:40< vaulttech> ok... I'll be sure to find where is this consistency check done
20120327 23:33:00< Crab_> hi, boucman
20120327 23:33:42< Crab_> vaulttech: see ./src/whiteboard/validate_visitor.cpp
20120327 23:34:05< Crab_> vaulttech: but note that those checks are not complete and sometimes wrong
20120327 23:35:38< vaulttech> hmm... ok.
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20120327 23:36:31< Crab_> vaulttech: also compare with src/ai/actions.cpp - this is the location of the validators used by AI
20120327 23:37:07< Crab_> vaulttech: they might be incomplete/wrong as well, but they are tested a lot better (since they are used by the AI, and there are no crashes related to them at all)
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20120327 23:38:38< vaulttech> I'll do this =) Thanks!
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 28 00:00:00 2012