--- Log opened Thu Mar 29 00:00:12 2012
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20120329 00:00:25< shadowm> what isn't clear to me is whether that will count as customized units, or whether there will be a comparison-e.g. when recruiting a unit-between clients which will trigger the OOS path
20120329 00:00:29< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: also notice that the bug poster reports a second issue below the screenshot
20120329 00:01:09< Alarantalara> I'm not sure that's exactly a bug
20120329 00:01:33< shadowm> _if_ Wesnoth is smart enough it'll notice the discrepancy when recruiting the same unit on each client and complain
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20120329 00:05:18< Alarantalara> shadowm: even if it isn't, skirmishers lose all movement when ambushed, so you could move a skirmisher next to it on one client, then away, and the other client would complain that that is impossible
20120329 00:06:29< shadowm> right
20120329 00:07:20< shadowm> that conclusion, of course, requires a developer who is more skilled at playing the game than me :p
20120329 00:08:14< Alarantalara> though I suppose I'm assuming that the game checks movement remaining before making moves
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20120329 01:00:28< fendrin_> hmmm
20120329 01:00:31< fendrin_> hi
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20120329 01:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 168 bugs, 326 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120329 06:37:39< Vino> I'm about done with my GSoC proposal! I know it's a lot of work, but could someone take a look and give me feedback? https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17rcDa6dxp4NuWNTxId-zhlJoOwhm9i6-hHEp5TJ-ZAQ
20120329 06:41:18< faryshta> Vino, hi I am not a dev, just another student but I think I can help you a little.
20120329 06:41:31< Vino> any feedback is helpful :)
20120329 06:41:31< faryshta> First you need to read http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas and choose one of the proposed ideas.
20120329 06:41:49< Vino> i can't propose one of my own?
20120329 06:42:22< faryshta> Vino, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#Make_your_own_ideas but you need to be very specific on what you are proposing.
20120329 06:42:52< Vino> do you think what i proposed isn't specific enough?
20120329 06:43:11< faryshta> You can't propose 'get better usability' since is too ambiguous. You need to propose some new feature or an specific design.
20120329 06:43:33< Vino> usability is ambiguous?
20120329 06:44:13< faryshta> Vino, at least for me. But I am just a student. You need to point exactly which part of the design can be improved and how.
20120329 06:44:36< Vino> fair enough
20120329 06:44:48< Vino> i did make a specific list, at the bottom
20120329 06:47:49< faryshta> Another thing is that you need to submit the idea to melange or the wesnoth wiki. Like this guys http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#Student_proposals_submitted_both_to_wiki_and_google
20120329 06:47:59< faryshta> I can help you submit your idea.
20120329 06:48:06< faryshta> Which is the title you want for your proposal?
20120329 06:48:11< Vino> yeah it's on melange. i copied it to google docs so everyone can see it, that's all
20120329 06:48:13< Vino> it's uh
20120329 06:48:27< Vino> Usability and Design Improvement
20120329 06:48:32< Vino> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2012/vino/1 can you see this?
20120329 06:49:04< faryshta> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2012_Hankerspace_AI_Campaigns this is an example of an idea submited to wesnoth wiki.
20120329 06:49:43< faryshta> Vino, your proposal isn't public. I can't see it :)
20120329 06:49:57< Vino> oh
20120329 06:50:06< Vino> k now it is :)
20120329 06:53:14< faryshta> I like this http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4205810/wesnoth-attack.png but some of the info you consider irrelevant is quite relevant. Like the percentages. Different weapons have different percentages.
20120329 06:54:08< Vino> o rly
20120329 06:54:17< Vino> i thought that was just the terrain percentage
20120329 06:54:29< Vino> well that could be moved back down.
20120329 06:54:40< faryshta> !Have units leave bones or bodies of some kind. Doesn’t have to be gory, it’s just fun to leave a trail of chaos and see where big fights happened." this can be done easily with the wml already but its still a great idea. If I make a campaign I will use this.
20120329 06:54:51< Vino> still i rather like the terrain percentage there
20120329 06:55:16< Vino> when i but exploded tank hulls in digitanks it was instantly 2x better :3
20120329 06:55:47< faryshta> Vino, most of the time the percentage is calculated by the terrain but there are weapons specials that alter that behavior like 'magic' and 'sharpshooter'. Still I like the mock up.
20120329 06:56:07< Vino> okay yeah.
20120329 06:56:27< Vino> my first inclination is to indicate that by having a "+20%!" on that weapon
20120329 06:56:45< Vino> because the base percentage is still based on the terrain, no?
20120329 06:57:01< faryshta> That list of ideas is very interesting to read.
20120329 06:57:15< Vino> why is that?
20120329 06:57:43< faryshta> Vino, not always. Magic totally overrides terrain defense and set the chance to hit to 70%.
20120329 06:57:54< Vino> icic.
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20120329 07:52:57< noy> Vino: what task are you apply for?
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20120329 09:53:06< Crab_> shadowm: using it is still a good idea. the upgrade procedure would probably take care of this for you, but, it's better to include the default AI config explicitly
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20120329 11:49:25< uzyszkodnik> wesbot, seen Soliton
20120329 11:49:26< wesbot> uzyszkodnik: Queried user last spoke 16d 16h ago.  Soliton is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de.
20120329 11:51:25< loonycyborg> uzyszkodnik: Just ask whatever you wanted to ask, perhaps he'll see it in logs eventually.
20120329 11:52:13< uzyszkodnik> loonycyborg: thx
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20120329 12:32:59< hankerspace> shadowm: Regarding your conversation with anonymissimus, should i use "max_duration" or "maximum_duration" for my new variable ??
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20120329 17:27:33< anonymissimus> hankerspace_: max_duration
20120329 17:28:27< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53686 /trunk/src/unit.cpp: 
20120329 17:28:27< CIA-69> remove support for [object] unit_type= and [object]unit_gender=
20120329 17:28:28< CIA-69> 1. Both are covered by [object][filter].
20120329 17:28:28< CIA-69> 2. They were undocumented in the wiki.
20120329 17:28:28< CIA-69> 3. They are scheduled for removal since early 1.7.
20120329 17:28:28< CIA-69> (patch #3211 by brilliand)
20120329 17:28:41< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53687 /trunk/data/tools/wmllint: 
20120329 17:28:41< CIA-69> wmmlint rule for previous commit
20120329 17:28:41< CIA-69> No updates to mainline wml required.
20120329 17:28:52< CIA-69> anonymissimus * r53688 /trunk/changelog: changelog update
20120329 17:31:56< hankerspace_> anonymissimus: patch done and updated.
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20120329 17:39:25< anonymissimus> hankerspace_: btw, there's also the "ESC key functionality" which allows to auto-skip any [messages] from the same event
20120329 17:40:13< anonymissimus> that should still work regardless of min/max_duration; its usually used for debugging wml, when messages are just annoying
20120329 17:48:43< hankerspace_> Alright anonymissimus, i'll begin to work on the patch for a minimum duration of messages
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20120329 17:57:43< nagafono> hi, i'm looking for TODO list (not easycoding but particulary TODO list). as i remeber there was such a list, correct me if i'm wrong. can anybody help?
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20120329 18:22:03< anonymissimus> nagafono: no idea; however, the "not-so-eady-codings" page, and bugs as well as feature requests in the tracker could be considered TODO lists
20120329 18:23:33< anonymissimus> as well as the page about GSoC proposals I guess
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20120329 18:56:19< CIA-69> ivanovic * r53689 /trunk/ (21 files in 21 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) translation
20120329 18:56:28< CIA-69> ivanovic * r53690 /branches/1.10/ (31 files in 27 dirs): updated Chinese (Simplified) and Italian translation
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20120329 19:21:47< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: your latest commit includes some changes to sdl_utils.cpp, that doesn't quite look intentional
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20120329 19:26:45< Ivanovic> outsch, they were not intentional
20120329 19:26:48< Ivanovic> please revert those
20120329 19:34:51< CIA-69> loonycyborg * r53691 /trunk/src/sdl_utils.cpp: Revert accidental code change from r53690 as requested by Ivanovic.
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20120329 19:40:22< Ivanovic> thanks, loonycyborg
20120329 19:40:36< loonycyborg> yw
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20120329 19:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 168 bugs, 326 feature requests, 19 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120329 19:58:23< vultraz> wesbot: seen Mordante
20120329 19:58:23< wesbot> vultraz: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 1d 21h ago.  1d 21h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20120329 20:19:46< shadowm> Crab_: hi, I asked you a couple of questions yesterday in the logs
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20120329 20:21:36< Crab_> shadowm: I've answered some in the morning
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20120329 20:22:07< shadowm> hm, 
20120329 20:22:38< shadowm> Crab_: my bad. It was in my away log but somehow dimissed it as unimportant. :p
20120329 20:23:09< shadowm> thanks, I'll keep those around then
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20120329 20:30:36< fendrin_> hello
20120329 20:31:15< vultraz> hey fendrin_ 
20120329 20:35:46< anonymissimus> fendrin_: hello; I'm afraid I need to annoy you now again because of your map format changes :P
20120329 20:35:49-!- fendrin_ [~fabi@88-134-21-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20120329 20:35:56< anonymissimus> :(
20120329 20:36:12-!- leo5 [~user@57-184-35-84-dsl.ipact.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120329 20:36:12< vultraz> lol you scared him off XD
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20120329 20:36:35< anonymissimus> [20:35]	anonymissimus	fendrin_: hello; I'm afraid I need to annoy you now again because of your map format change
20120329 20:37:05< anonymissimus> every time someone adds new terrain or such to a mainline map that map gets converted to the new format forcefully
20120329 20:37:32< anonymissimus> so there is a mixture, and that "just don't do something" doesn't work
20120329 20:38:07< anonymissimus> for instance, wmllint currently messses up the map files which are in new format if run without --dryrun
20120329 20:38:18< trademark__> Crab_, I fixed a bug you sent on the chat last day, (https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?19538). I already follow the patch guideline, I submit it now or there is some other requirement for gsoc student ?
20120329 20:38:42< anonymissimus> so that complicates things for people who are working on something completely unrelated (such as me) :P
20120329 20:39:44< Crab_> trademark__: submit the patch, then
20120329 20:39:56< Crab_> trademark__: it's good that you've got it fixed
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20120329 21:02:40< trademark__> Crab_, thank you. I submitted it. I carefully read the links you sent me before but as I'm not a experienced gamer of wesnoth and never used WML, it seems to be "too much" to begin. At first, what do you advice me to start with ? (bug-related fixing, ...).
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20120329 21:03:44< Crab_> trademark__: great
20120329 21:04:03< Crab_> trademark__: make a small campaign, with 2 scenarios
20120329 21:04:54< trademark__> Crab_, ok ! thanks.
20120329 21:05:02< Crab_> trademark__: copy from the forums or make your own, something really simple. you'll feel confident about WML after that. It should take an hour or two, no more. copypaste shamelessly.
20120329 21:08:08< fendrin> anonymissimus: Agreed, I am working on a bug report for the problem.
20120329 21:09:41< tyrannodogg> hi everyone
20120329 21:12:15< shadowm> hello there
20120329 21:15:04-!- Elvish_Hunter [5ea3b91b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.163.185.27] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120329 21:17:07< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
20120329 21:18:00< Elvish_Hunter> After that SSF support was enabled in trunk, I modified the third scenario of SoF to make use of a better "sighted location" code.
20120329 21:18:17< Elvish_Hunter> What I'm about to commit is here: http://pastebin.com/epEJc1Ku
20120329 21:19:03< Elvish_Hunter> However, I have a question: how do you think that a Gryphon will speak the phrase "I see a house in the distance!" ?
20120329 21:19:20< Elvish_Hunter> I mean, how should I render the bird-speak in that case?
20120329 21:20:09< shadowm> I suspect turin would tell you that he highly regrets the existence of the gryphon in question.
20120329 21:21:10< Elvish_Hunter> Yes, but we can't feed Krawg some poisoned bird seed! ;-)
20120329 21:21:57< Elvish_Hunter> Having him speaking normally will be even worse, I think.
20120329 21:22:32 * zookeeper doesn't comment
20120329 21:22:42< fendrin> esr: ping
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20120329 21:23:10< shadowm> just try to picture a parrot speaking, I guess
20120329 21:23:12< esr> fendrin: What's up?
20120329 21:23:57< shadowm> that is, no lips or useful palate whatsoever, severely limiting the variety of sounds it can make
20120329 21:24:08< Elvish_Hunter> esr: how should Krawg in SoF say "I see a house in the distance!" ?
20120329 21:24:33< fendrin> esr: Please check your assigned bugs. I have added on for wmllint to support the new map format.
20120329 21:24:40< esr> Oh, you want me to simulate bidspeak?
20120329 21:24:41< fendrin> s/on/one
20120329 21:26:06< esr> OK, thinking about I think the inside of a beak will do as well as a hard palate.
20120329 21:26:41< esr> So yes, labials are out, but palatals can get by
20120329 21:26:55< Elvish_Hunter> My proposal is already in the pastebin that I linked, if it's interesting.
20120329 21:27:13< esr> "I hee a house in he ditance"
20120329 21:28:05< esr> If you're willing to allow the bird a more hmanlike tongue it gets less distorted.
20120329 21:28:38< esr> An /s/ might not be out of the question.
20120329 21:29:02< Elvish_Hunter> Allowing Krawg to speak more normally will be better for both players and translators - but will require a complete rewriting of his messages.
20120329 21:29:10< esr> No /th/ though, that really needs teeth.
20120329 21:30:01< Elvish_Hunter> I went for a "Iii zeee hoose iiin eee d’zztaaan’eee!", but I'm not really convinced of my solution.
20120329 21:30:04< esr> "I see a house in se distance"
20120329 21:31:06< zookeeper> dudes. just look at the birdspeak already in that scenario (and others).
20120329 21:31:24< esr> Lengthening the vowels probably a good idea, so "I  seeee a hooouse iin se diiistance."
20120329 21:31:29< zookeeper> Elvish_Hunter, ...and that's pretty much in line with how the rest of the birdspeak is now
20120329 21:32:01< Elvish_Hunter> zookeeper: so, green light for my idea, at least for now?
20120329 21:32:25< zookeeper> fine by me
20120329 21:32:43< Elvish_Hunter> zookeeper: thanks :-)
20120329 21:32:55< esr> fendrin: Will check.
20120329 21:33:03< zookeeper> i'm still hoping for a text rewrite for SoF, and krawg could be removed at the same time.
20120329 21:33:07< Elvish_Hunter> esr: however, I agree that a more "sane" speaking for Krawg will be beneficial.
20120329 21:33:30< zookeeper> and i know pewskeepski has been working on that, but... well, i can't say i'm confident that it'll work out.
20120329 21:34:33< Elvish_Hunter> I don't see Krawg as a big issue in SoF - but it may be only because I never played without him...
20120329 21:35:09< Elvish_Hunter> I mean, in my view I see Gryphons as intelligent creatures, that are able to speak, if they want to.
20120329 21:36:16< anonymissimus> fendrin: well, ideally *you* should a) make wmllint not mess up the new map format and b) add a conversion rule :)
20120329 21:40:05< fendrin> anonymissimus: No, I can't code python. And I do not want to learn it, at least not in the near future. And wmllint was never my field of work.
20120329 21:40:55< fendrin> You can't expect every developer to know about lua, c++, wml, python and more.
20120329 21:41:33< fendrin> esr is much faster when modifying it, and I will fix something in his campaigns in return.
20120329 21:43:21< anonymissimus> do we want to support conversion for embedded maps was well ?
20120329 21:43:36< fendrin> I think so.
20120329 21:43:58< anonymissimus> and it seems that there's still the code supporting conversion from 1.2 map format to the 1.4 one
20120329 21:44:45< CIA-69> elvish_hunter * r53692 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): SoF: updated sighted location code in scenario 3
20120329 21:46:06< anonymissimus> (what I imply is, dropping support for one or both could probably simplify wmllint in that aspect a lot)
20120329 21:47:38< Crab_> time for a small public service spam :)
20120329 21:47:41< Crab_> To all GSoC candidates, Chopper, Ayne, bloodycoin, S_arms, bloodyGP , nagafono , c_nevin92 , Fristi, Fristii, Fristilus, hankerspace, IvanSav, nagafono , Faryshta , Faryshta , Teugon , TorminaTor , vaulttech , naman22 ,, N_Pole93, Ma1ak, Vino, avrilfanomar
20120329 21:47:53< Crab_>  , and to all others that are not yet known to us via gsoc applications or wiki pages: I would be doing a first part of reviews at the weekend.
20120329 21:48:10< Crab_>  I will review only applications submitted to http://www.google-melange.com. I will read the wiki pages of people who submitted to google, as well - but submission of proposal to google is important so we'll be able to accept you. Please register your application with google, and you'll get some honest feedback this weekend.
20120329 21:49:16< Crab_> in general, people without patches would be told to code something and submit as a patch, while people who already have submitted some patches will get more interesting feedback.
20120329 21:51:29< anonymissimus> fendrin: there is some mistake in your report btw; duplicate [map] child when <new_format> is included in a scenario
20120329 21:52:07< faryshta> Crab_, is translation for main campaign and UMC considered a patch?
20120329 21:53:01< Crab_> faryshta: yes, it is a good thing, it's a contribution to wesnoth - but, if your project requires C++ coding, we'll want to  be sure you can code something in c++
20120329 21:54:01< faryshta> Crab_, ok. I already contributed to translations but I will try to find a bug and code it.
20120329 21:54:20< Crab_> faryshta: for example, look at this patch by one of gsoc applicants - https://gna.org/patch/?3220 - it fixes a real bug, yet it's only two lines of code. so it can be something really small, it's better than nothing - it shows that you're able to find your way around wesnoth's source and find the cause of some issue.
20120329 21:57:18< faryshta> Crab_, k
20120329 21:58:49< fendrin> anonymissimus: I noticed when writing it. But came to the decision that I can use the thing with some context related meaning without confusing too much.
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20120329 22:01:58< anonymissimus> fendrin: could an option be added to the map editor in which format to save ?
20120329 22:02:50< faryshta> Is this a bug? https://gna.org/bugs/?19596
20120329 22:04:17< anonymissimus> faryshta: IMHO that is a feature request which was just submitted as a bug
20120329 22:06:12< Crab_> faryshta: the problem here is that it's not that easy to change, unless you get some sort of consensus that it needs to be changed now. I'd go for some other stuff. We have plenty of bugs in the tracker. Usually, in some new bugs it's possible to find something interesting yet easily fixable.
20120329 22:06:25< faryshta> anonymissimus, I think the same.
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20120329 22:07:02< faryshta> Crab_, I don't think it had to be changed, besides that is some WML stuff and not C++.
20120329 22:07:13< Crab_> yes, WML
20120329 22:07:32< faryshta> I was honestly asking if it was a bug since I don't think so.
20120329 22:08:13< anonymissimus> there seems to be some bad habit to submit things as bugs in order to force attention
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20120329 22:12:14< faryshta> anonymissimus, who can clean that mess? I am finding some false bugs dating from 2008.
20120329 22:12:55< anonymissimus> faryshta: if they are from 2008 they are most likely correct bugs
20120329 22:13:10< anonymissimus> since they have been looked at more than once probably
20120329 22:14:53< fendrin> anonymissimus: Hmmm, sure. That can be done. But do you really need it?
20120329 22:24:07< anonymissimus> fendrin: well, no; it's an idea in case esr needs too long for the wmllitn support or if we don't deprecate the old format
20120329 22:25:01 * esr is listening
20120329 22:28:56< fendrin> Well, I would prefer if esr is fast :-)
20120329 22:32:50< faryshta> You can't move a leader after recall?
20120329 22:37:08< fendrin> faryshta: You can.
20120329 22:37:38< faryshta> fendrin, https://gna.org/bugs/?19581
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20120329 22:38:31< faryshta> Ohh I got it. He moved the leader from the keep BEFORE recalling.
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20120329 22:44:20< faryshta> fendrin, do you think this is a good enough idea http://gna.org/bugs/?16538 and https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?13074 ?
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20120329 22:48:06< fendrin> faryshta: Please give me some time to answer.
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20120329 22:52:29< boucman> hey all
20120329 22:56:13< Espreon> Hello.
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20120329 23:12:02< anonymissimus> btw; if some GSoC people want something rather easy to code, there is some redundancy I just discovered regarding ai_special= that could be removed, see http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=525091#p525091
20120329 23:13:59< trademark__> anonymissimus, good to know :)
20120329 23:15:56< anonymissimus> faryshta: the [unit_type] and [unit]recall_cost= key makes definitely sense
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20120329 23:16:51< anonymissimus> https://gna.org/bugs/?16538 is a bad FR
20120329 23:17:20< anonymissimus> because the poster can't provide an easy enough description etc
20120329 23:18:54< anonymissimus> boucman: I think I'm willing to take that movement algorithm
20120329 23:19:08< boucman> great, please do
20120329 23:19:26< boucman> I have like 9 or 10 patches  to deal with so any help is welcome :)
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20120329 23:31:25< anonymissimus> trademark__: I made a bug report for it https://gna.org/bugs/?19599
20120329 23:33:42< trademark__> anonymissimus, thank you, as I would like to work on the AI part, it will certainly helps me :)
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20120329 23:34:03< CIA-69> fendrin * r53693 /trunk/src/editor/ (17 files in 4 dirs): 
20120329 23:34:03< CIA-69> Fixed the drawing errors in the map editor.
20120329 23:34:03< CIA-69> Restored most of its former functions.
20120329 23:35:19< s951> Hi, new potential GSoC person here.
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20120329 23:36:34< fendrin> shadowm: ^ Should fix most stuff we discussed lately.
20120329 23:38:47< hankerspace_> anonymissimus: For the min_duration of a message, can i use a timer between the creation of the messsage and the suposed close of this message or have i to use the events like for max duration ?
20120329 23:39:30< anonymissimus> hankerspace_: sry, no idea
20120329 23:40:08< hankerspace_> I have the idea. But if i use my ways of  programming, is that a problem ?
20120329 23:40:12< tyrannodogg> currently i am going through the questionaire for GSoC, can someone explain what is meant by question 2.5.1 in particular?
20120329 23:41:12< anonymissimus> hankerspace_: no idea; and I'm not a mentor either
20120329 23:42:07< hankerspace_> Ok, no problem, i'll do as i think, mentors will correct me when patch will be post.
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 30 00:00:12 2012