--- Log opened Tue Apr 10 00:00:48 2012
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20120410 00:02:39< Nephro> anonymissimus, you do know the C/Lua API right?
20120410 00:04:20-!- Johannes13 [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20120410 00:06:16 * Nephro is writing some scary code
20120410 00:07:16< anonymissimus> Nephro: I only know that I know nothing :)
20120410 00:07:33< anonymissimus> Nephro: however, I may try to answer questions
20120410 00:08:44< Nephro> anonymissimus, I think I figured it out :) I wouldn't be able to properly ask the question anyway, cause things get pretty dark in my code. I don't completely understand what it does myself, to be honest
20120410 00:10:06< Nephro> but it works, so I'll pretend that was all planned :))
20120410 00:12:47< Nephro> anonymissimus, do you know, whether the Lua garbage collection mechanism cleans the stack once in a while, if I forget stuff on it?
20120410 00:14:35< Nephro> I assume my code might leave something just lying there sometimes
20120410 00:14:47< anonymissimus> you mean the stack on the C++ side ? I asked crab recently about it, he said it'd be a memory leak
20120410 00:15:14< anonymissimus> so you should always check with the stack dumper
20120410 00:16:03< anonymissimus> you could also put a checker there by gettign the stack top and check it's at the same index as at the start of your code
20120410 00:17:11< Nephro> anonymissimus, ok, sounds sensible. I will devote a day for that. Since there are already about 10 functions that use the stack and couple more to come
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20120410 00:21:14 * anonymissimus likes to debug step carefully through lua API code looking at the stack dumper output in order to make sure everything's correct
20120410 00:22:36< Nephro> gettop/settop seems pretty convenient to clean up after
20120410 00:25:04< anonymissimus> yeah... it is AFAIK considered good lua programming practice to have the exact same top at the end as at the beginning
20120410 00:25:30< anonymissimus> so you should also leave stuff untouched which is there since it was passed and which you don't need
20120410 00:26:01< CIA-69> nephro * r53884 /trunk/ (data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg src/ai/lua/core.cpp): LuaAI: attacks in the attacks vector now have a rating() function
20120410 00:26:25< Nephro> this was a very fun one
20120410 00:26:50< Nephro> I kind of understand more and more about the current system, when I write parts for it myself
20120410 00:27:47< Nephro> since if you just read the code you think "why did they do it so complicated here", but at some point, you just start reusing that complexity to simplify your solutions
20120410 00:28:05< Nephro> really satisfying
20120410 00:34:56< mattsc> Nephro: thanks for doing all that!  I probably won't have time to test this today any more, but I'll get to it as soon as I can.
20120410 00:35:18< mattsc> If there's some quick test you want me to do, let me know, I can probably fit that in later tonight.
20120410 00:36:27< Nephro> mattsc, no, not really, it looks good and correct. I'm heading to sleep myself now, so no rush at all :)
20120410 00:37:11< mattsc> Nephro: sounds good.  GN.
20120410 00:37:21< Nephro> mattsc, one problem though, is that the attacks vector has all the attacks, but I didn't understand how does a user understand who is the attacker, since the class contains only the target of the attack
20120410 00:38:21< Nephro> mattsc, but you probably should know, if you read the C++ implementations of usage. I never actually used that vector myself, only read the definition to expose it properly
20120410 00:38:23< mattsc> Nephro: uh, ok.  I don't know.  In the Formula AI variable, it contains a 'src', 'dst' and 'target' location, specifying the attacker, defender, and the target from which the attack is done.
20120410 00:38:45< mattsc> Nephro: ok.  I'll have a look at it tomorrow.
20120410 00:38:58< mattsc> Thanks much!
20120410 00:39:19< Nephro> mattsc, I will do so too. I have to, because somewhere there is hidden the way to find enemy attacks :)
20120410 00:39:47< mattsc> :)
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20120410 00:52:35< Alarantalara> mattsc, jamit1: Xcode is set up to build .app packages, not bare executables. So part of the build script copies the data, fonts and other dirs into the package
20120410 00:53:00< Alarantalara> it's supposed to catch updates and apply them automatically, and I don't know offhand why they are not
20120410 00:54:21< mattsc> Alarantalara, thanks.  I'll see if I can find anything.
20120410 00:54:40< Alarantalara> you might be able to avoid a complete rebuild by telling Xcode to Touch the data directory within Xcode (right click Targets>Wesnoth>Copy Bundle Resources and select touch)
20120410 00:55:02< mattsc> I tried that yesterday and it didn't seem to have the desired effect.
20120410 00:55:06< Alarantalara> you can also set command line arguments to force it to use the svn version of the data
20120410 00:55:26< mattsc> ok
20120410 00:55:41< Alarantalara> within the Executables section, choose Get Info for the Wesnoth Target and you will find an arguments tab
20120410 00:56:12< mattsc> I might actually start with a re-install, since I don't remember if I did so during my last OS Upgrade (or two), or if I migrated it.
20120410 00:56:54< Alarantalara> If it's working for the Release build, starting with just deleting the project file and letting svn replace it may be enough
20120410 00:57:20< Alarantalara> or more likely, the entire project directory, and then replace the libraries
20120410 00:58:14< mattsc> Alarantalara, ok, will do (sometime later this week...)  Thanks much!
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20120410 00:59:42< Alarantalara> Unfortunately, I've had very little problems with building, so don't necessarily have the experience to know what the cause of problems are
20120410 01:00:15< mattsc> ok.  I'm glad to hear that it is usually that smooth!
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20120410 04:16:11< mattsc> mordante: thanks (concerning revision.hpp)
20120410 04:21:59< mattsc> Trademark_: I looked at your proposal and it looks good in general.  I only have a couple more (very minor) comments.
20120410 04:23:30< mattsc> 1) 'Recruiting better units:' you say: 'Each unit should have a goal ...'.  I'm not sure that I agree with that.  Maybe 'It should be possible to give units goals', but the default behavior of the AI should happen if no goals are given to one, several or all units.
20120410 04:24:33< mattsc> Or, at least, units need to be able to switch goals if all units working on a specific goal were killed by the enemy.
20120410 04:26:07< mattsc> 2) On the tip system, I'd still set the default behavior differently.  I would consider what the default behavior is if no recruitment aspect is defined.  Then, by default, all units not covered by the aspect, if one is given, would show the same behavior as when none is given at all.
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20120410 04:28:41< mattsc> Sorry, I mean: units recruited on hexes when the recruitment aspect is taken care of, should follow the default behavior...
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20120410 04:29:18< mattsc> (I hope that makes sense...  It does in my head, but I don't always express myself well.  Same with point 1) up there.)
20120410 04:29:30< mattsc> Again, you can do this as you want.  I've stated my preference twice now.  If I haven't convinced you yet, I probably won't any more.  :)  (And that's perfectly fine.)
20120410 04:29:56< mattsc> Trademark_, btw, thanks for fixing the typo on AiWML !
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20120410 04:47:19< shadowm> elias: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=525989#p525989
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20120410 05:24:32< CIA-69> alarantalara * r53885 /branches/1.10/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: correct typo in clear variable at scenario end
20120410 05:26:29< mattsc> Trademark_, just to be clear: take what I write up there as suggestions, statements of my personal opinion, even where I say I don't agree.  I have no issues at all with you doing it differently.
20120410 05:28:03< mattsc> I think an important thing is that you keep the contact with the users (as you have started in your forum post) as you develop things, because some of them might not quite work out the way you expect now.
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20120410 05:40:51< Espreon> 1/query Alarantalara 
20120410 05:40:53< Espreon> Damn it.
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20120410 05:59:00< CIA-69> alarantalara * r53886 /branches/1.10/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: Fix bug #19630: lost unit when Nym returns
20120410 06:02:34< CIA-69> alarantalara * r53887 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: fix bug #19630
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20120410 07:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Wesnoth accepted in GSoC 2012 | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 173 bugs, 329 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120410 09:40:31< Ivanovic> mordante: in case you are not notified for thread updates: notaz asked for your binary
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20120410 10:09:34< fendrin> Ivanovic: Is it okay to make the sidebar a few pixels wider in the game as well? Not that much as the editor sidebar grew. About ~5 pixels only. 
20120410 10:12:05< Ivanovic> okay
20120410 10:12:24< Ivanovic> though 5px is barely one char
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20120410 10:13:57< Ivanovic> please do me a favor and check if the game still feels bood in 800x480 after the change
20120410 10:14:07< Ivanovic> you know, bar not too wide, ...
20120410 10:15:03< shadowm> fendrin: why?
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20120410 10:19:32< zookeeper> umm... and if you widen the sidebar for whatever reason, then make sure you don't cause any bitmap stretching.
20120410 10:22:35< fendrin> Ivanovic: I think the change is barely visible, but sure I will check that. At the moment it seems I am the only one around who wants to deal with gui0 and is able to. Thus it seems to be my responsible to keep them working in all resolutions.
20120410 10:23:24< fendrin> zookeeper: Sure, I will adjust the bitmaps as well to avoid them being scaled. Did that for the editor gui already, with the help of vultraz.
20120410 10:25:38< fendrin> shadowm: Currently the sidebar is 142 pixels wide in the horizontal dimension. In order two display two units (2x72 pixels = 144 pixels) in a row I need a little bit more room.
20120410 10:25:55< shadowm> Why do you want to display two units in a row?
20120410 10:26:26< fendrin> One looks ugly. And it leads to early scrolling.
20120410 10:27:10< shadowm> Why should we want to see two units at the same time in the sidebar?
20120410 10:27:13< Ivanovic> off to denver, cu
20120410 10:27:31< fendrin> I think I will go with an extra gui theme to avoid any problems with current mainline. But it would be nice to keep them in sync image wise.
20120410 10:29:29< fendrin> shadowm: I am going to display loaded units in a palette (same base class as the editor palettes) in the sidebar.
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20120410 10:30:48< shadowm> Does that mean this is still related to FPI #27?
20120410 10:30:54< fendrin> yeah
20120410 10:31:12< shadowm> I thought we talked about this already.
20120410 10:31:20< fendrin> Yes we did.
20120410 10:31:44< shadowm> And by omission, the conclusion is that it's still FPI #27.
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20120410 10:31:57< shadowm> That means it doesn't belong in mainline.
20120410 10:32:14< fendrin> Sure, that is why it won't be visible in mainline at all.
20120410 10:32:34< shadowm> The feature should be implemented either in UMC, or the Experimental fork, not in mainline.
20120410 10:32:56< fendrin> lua and wml isn't capable of doing it right, I have checked that.
20120410 10:33:08< shadowm> They don't need to.
20120410 10:33:35< Crendgrim> how should UMC implement it then? :/
20120410 10:33:56< shadowm> It's been implemented before, isn't that enough?
20120410 10:34:10< fendrin> No.
20120410 10:34:22< Crendgrim> ah, I see.
20120410 10:34:36< fendrin> I haven't seen an implementation that fits all needs.
20120410 10:34:45< shadowm> Have you tried making one yourself?
20120410 10:34:53< fendrin> Yeah.
20120410 10:34:59< fendrin> Ages ago.
20120410 10:35:03< fendrin> It worked.
20120410 10:35:15< fendrin> But it missed several important features.
20120410 10:35:23< shadowm> "Ages ago" sounds like before Lua support was even implemented.
20120410 10:35:28< fendrin> indeed
20120410 10:36:07< shadowm> I thought we agreed that what you should do is increasing the theme UI's flexibility, not the backend's complexity.
20120410 10:36:10< fendrin> 2005
20120410 10:36:23< shadowm> Dear gods, how is that supposed to be a good reference for anything.
20120410 10:36:42< shadowm> There's a lot of stuff I couldn't do in 2007 (1.3.x) that I can nowadays (1.10).
20120410 10:37:23< fendrin> Yes, but I have watched WML evolving and it didn't get any features that can do it better. 
20120410 10:37:39< fendrin> gui2 is not usable for my purposes.
20120410 10:37:42< shadowm> If you can let theme UI elements be implemented in arbitrary Lua or something, then excellent.
20120410 10:38:37< fendrin> I fought a long time against sapient whenever anything was discussed involved lua. 
20120410 10:38:41< shadowm> But there's no need to implement more intrusive backend changes only because you couldn't figure out an elegant way to store units inside units.
20120410 10:38:46< fendrin> sapient told me to learn c++ and I did
20120410 10:38:59< fendrin> Now it is the reverse thing.
20120410 10:39:43< fendrin> I do not implement intrusive backend changes, don't worry.
20120410 10:40:00< shadowm> I changed allegiances when Lua turned out to be a very powerful tool for my purposes, even if I had to abandon any hopes of ever implementing more WML actions in mainline  in the process.
20120410 10:40:19< fendrin> Yeah, and that is a good thing.
20120410 10:40:34< shadowm> What is?
20120410 10:41:06< fendrin> Too give lua some attention and use it if it fits your needs.
20120410 10:41:23< fendrin> Okay, let's discuss it in detail.
20120410 10:42:23< shadowm> My attention only goes as far as my condition as a user of the Lua backend in UMC work since the mainline quality standards and the person in charge of those are barely comprehensible for my feeble little mind.
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20120410 10:43:58< shadowm> But the point is that now that Lua is clearly here to stay (since even security breaches can be patched in-house now), development should favor giving more power to UMC creators through Lua rather than shoehorning every single whimsical feature into the C++ backend.
20120410 10:44:18< fendrin> I totally agree on that.
20120410 10:44:47< fendrin> Okay, let's see what I already have.
20120410 10:44:55< shadowm> I'm leaving in 5 minutes.
20120410 10:45:07< fendrin> I have coded support for transport units at the movement level.
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20120410 10:45:47< fendrin> Moving in a transporter is just click on the unit to select it and a click at the carrier unit to move in.
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20120410 10:46:18< fendrin> It pretty much looks like attacking a unit but with different arrows and a different mouse overlay.
20120410 10:46:31< shadowm> Sounds intrusive.
20120410 10:47:32< fendrin> Assume your transporter is a ship and being in deep water.
20120410 10:48:04< fendrin> Current wesnoth will display the hex with the transporter unreachable assuming that the unit is not able to cross deep water.
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20120410 10:48:38< fendrin> My implementation does check if the unit can reach the transport and the transport is able to carry the unit and thus the hex field gets correctly highlighted as reachable.
20120410 10:49:31< fendrin> The move is a normal unit move and can be undone. (Well, I am still working on the undo feature but it doesn't seem to be very hard).
20120410 10:50:06< fendrin> The loaded units are displayed in the sidebar and you can select them there for unloading, very easily.
20120410 10:50:49< fendrin> Selecting for unloading will highlight the reachable area as normal and the move out of the carrier is a normal unit move. This can be undone as well after I finished.
20120410 10:51:02< fendrin> the implementation.
20120410 10:51:31< fendrin> I do not see a change to do that with lua.
20120410 10:51:45 * shadowm leaves per the aforementioned schedule.
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20120410 11:03:34< fendrin> And the units are still on the map. They get involved in filtering, upkeep, events, whatever. 
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20120410 11:04:57< fendrin> The loading/unloading fires an event. But that can already be done using lua/wml.
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20120410 11:07:42< Blah> hi
20120410 11:07:49< fendrin> Okay, let's summarize all the features that I am currently implementing in c++. Loading/Unloading works like a normal Wesnoth move. The gui gives you information if you can mount on a first glance. Undo. Easy access to the stored unit by just hovering over the transporter and you can see them in the sidebar. This is by far superior to every UMC implementation I have seen. 
20120410 11:08:09< fendrin> hi Blah
20120410 11:08:54< Blah> I have a question
20120410 11:09:00< fendrin> gsoc?
20120410 11:09:03< Blah> yes
20120410 11:09:07< fendrin> you want to start fixing bugs?
20120410 11:09:12< Blah> well yeah
20120410 11:09:14< fendrin> :-)
20120410 11:09:19< Blah> wait 
20120410 11:09:28< Blah> let me explain first
20120410 11:09:31< fendrin> sure
20120410 11:09:34< Blah> I got the email saying that I should fix 1-2 bugs 
20120410 11:09:44< Blah> does that mean that it's a requirement for the GSoC ?
20120410 11:09:55< Blah> because I'm in the middle of exam weeks here
20120410 11:10:02< fendrin> Not strictly. But you should demonstrate some coding skills.
20120410 11:10:06< Blah> I see
20120410 11:10:19< fendrin> You could also implement a feature request or a easy coding task.
20120410 11:10:23< Blah> Will do, I intend to stick to the project regardless for the vacation
20120410 11:10:32< fendrin> That is nice to hear.
20120410 11:10:42< Blah> let me check the page first
20120410 11:10:58< fendrin> If you stay for a year and we know you already as a reliable developer you have better chances next year.
20120410 11:11:20< Blah> already on my plan
20120410 11:11:35< fendrin> For the current term you might be a little bit too late. But I am not sure there. I was a mentor the last two years but not this one. Thus I can't really tell.
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20120410 11:22:10< Blah> oh, kind of stupid question
20120410 11:22:14< Blah> is this platform specific?
20120410 11:22:24< fendrin> this?
20120410 11:22:31< Blah> the game
20120410 11:22:55< fendrin> Wesnoth runs on windows, mac, linux, and more.
20120410 11:23:06< Blah> okay
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20120410 11:29:21< fendrin> Blah: Regarding gsoc, talk to mordante, boucman, gabba, crab_ or Ivanovic.
20120410 11:29:41< fendrin> Blah: And do it soon or it is really to late to participate.
20120410 11:29:53< fendrin> too late
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20120410 11:46:32< Blah> sorry I did not reply earlier
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20120410 11:46:38< Blah> but I cannot do much at the moment
20120410 11:46:57< Blah> due to exams and such
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20120410 15:56:44< Nephro> mattsc, morning. Do you have any tasks outstanding I could do? I kind of run of things I can do while Crab_ isn't around here
20120410 15:57:39< mattsc> Nephro, hi.  You said that you need to talk to Crab first for making the ai table available in human-controlled mode, right?
20120410 15:59:10< mattsc> Oh, yes, having the check_..._action() functions would be nice.
20120410 16:00:01< mattsc> They aren't strictly necessary, but every once in while the engine throws an "AI actions was not checked, this could cause errors" (or something like that) error.  I believe that's what they are for.
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20120410 16:35:59< Nephro> mattsc, that is something I am not sure about either
20120410 16:36:13< Nephro> mattsc, btw, seems fai is using self generated attack vectors
20120410 16:36:28< Nephro> instead of exposing C++ ones
20120410 16:37:04< mattsc> Nephro: is it?  Ok.  (As I said, I don't know how any of this works internally)
20120410 16:37:18< mattsc> Nephro: I've been looking at get_attacks() and it looks nice, but ...
20120410 16:37:41< mattsc> As you said, the attacking unit and the hex from which it attacks isn't there.
20120410 16:37:51< Nephro> mattsc, I'll look into it right now
20120410 16:37:56< mattsc> There are 2 fields that return (for me) unreadable results.
20120410 16:38:04< mattsc> rating: which appears to be a function
20120410 16:38:17< mattsc> att_ptr: which is ... a pointer?
20120410 16:38:36< Nephro> mattsc, yes, you have to call rating for it to give you a result
20120410 16:38:54< mattsc> And then it gives you the overall c++ default combat rating for that attack?
20120410 16:38:57< Nephro> mattsc, because rating an attack is time consuming, you can rate only the attacks you want to rate
20120410 16:39:12< Nephro> mattsc, it is wired to the rating method of attacks, yes
20120410 16:39:26< mattsc> Cool!
20120410 16:39:32< mattsc> I remember you saying this before, but without seeing it in from of me, it didn't sink in.
20120410 16:40:00< Nephro> mattsc, and the pointer is for system use, when you call .rating() c++ can't know which attack to rate, that's why it extracts the pointer and works with the object directly
20120410 16:40:08< mattsc> *in front of me
20120410 16:40:13< mattsc> That will be extremely useful at times.
20120410 16:40:42< mattsc> Nephro: That makes sense (cc. the ptr)
20120410 16:40:55< Nephro> rating() is also compiled with an engine as an upvalue, I'm glad that at least isn't visible
20120410 16:41:13< Nephro> mattsc, I think I will actually compile the pointer as an upvalue too
20120410 16:41:17< mattsc> So, yes, in that case, it looks like attacker (id or location or whatever) and attack hex are not there.  The target (defender) is.
20120410 16:41:58< mattsc> Nephro: ok, as you like.  It doesn't bother me now that I know what it is.
20120410 16:42:24< Nephro> mattsc, yes, but it will be good to hide it, for incapsulation purposes
20120410 16:42:51< Nephro> although Crab_ seemed to have an opinion, that it is the person fault if he screws up his own tools
20120410 16:43:13< mattsc> Nephro: ok.
20120410 16:43:30< mattsc> Btw, I also confirmed that get_attacks() does not crash when there are no attacks.  :)
20120410 16:44:44< mattsc> And stating this just for reference (I assume this is to be expected at this time): it does not update in human-controlled mode when you change something (move a unit, do an attack, etc.)
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20120410 16:45:33< mattsc> To summarize: missing attacker and attack hex are the only things missing, as far as I can see.
20120410 16:47:29< mattsc> My suggestion would be to include those as src={x=1,y=1} and dst={x=2,y=2} for a unit at (1,1) moving to and attack from (2,2)
20120410 16:48:02< mattsc> I have to logout for ~30min.  Will be back on after that.
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20120410 17:14:04< Nephro> mattsc, ok, I found where the attacker is hidden
20120410 17:14:20< Nephro> implemented already, building, testing and committing
20120410 17:14:36< mattsc> Nephro: cool.  And the attack hex too?
20120410 17:14:44< Nephro> yes
20120410 17:15:12< mattsc> Nice.
20120410 17:15:55< Nephro> there is a movements map. So basically we have a structure "movements = array of pair{attacker, attack hex}"
20120410 17:16:21< Nephro> my structure definition language is not the best out there, I hope you understand :D
20120410 17:17:29< mattsc> Nephro: Ah, yes, that sounds familiar from Formula AI
20120410 17:18:33< Nephro>  damn my sound system broke down
20120410 17:18:37< Nephro> this is new
20120410 17:19:53< CIA-69> nephro * r53888 /trunk/ (data/ai/scenarios/scenario-lua-ai.cfg src/ai/lua/core.cpp): LuaAI: added missing field from the attacks vector
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20120410 17:21:37< mattsc> Nephro.  I see the commit.  Will test in ~1h.  Need to do something else right now.
20120410 17:22:38< Nephro> mattsc, I already gave it a few runs, looks good
20120410 17:22:56< Nephro> the values seem believable
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20120410 18:09:18< mattsc> neph: tested it.  Looks good.  Two comments:
20120410 18:09:34< mattsc> Is it possible to rename 'first' and 'second' to 'src' and 'dst'?
20120410 18:09:54< mattsc> That would be much more intuitive (and consistent with FAI, IIRC)
20120410 18:11:35< mattsc> And second, if you check out http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FormulaAI#Available_variables , there's a difference between 'my_attacks' and 'attacks' in FAI
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20120410 18:12:20< mattsc> What you have implemented so far is the equivalent of 'my_attacks', which gives only the attack from the best possible hex(es) for each enemy unit.
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20120410 18:13:18< mattsc> Most of the time, that is what one wants, but occasionally, having all possible attacks available (even those from apparently non-ideal terrain) is needed.  Is it possible to add that attack vector as well?
20120410 18:13:34< neph> mattsc, not really, it actually gives combinations of multiple attacks too
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20120410 18:14:03< mattsc> neph: no I am not talking about attack combinations.  Those are there, I saw that.
20120410 18:14:04< neph> mattsc, try running my test scenario
20120410 18:14:08< neph> oh
20120410 18:14:27< mattsc> But let's assume you have just two unit, right next to each other, one of yours and one enemy unit.
20120410 18:14:53< mattsc> get_attacks() (and my_attacks in FAI) give you one attack vector.
20120410 18:15:11< mattsc> attacks in FAI gives you six, one for each possible hex from which the enemy could be attacked.
20120410 18:15:36< mattsc> Hi, Crab_
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20120410 18:16:46< mattsc> neph: does that make sense? (the difference I am talking about, I mean)
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20120410 18:17:29< neph> mattsc, yes, I understand. Not sure if C++ has such a method implemented, but I think I should be able to do that myself :)
20120410 18:18:56< mattsc> neph: that would be great.  :)  If one wants to try to modify attack behavior (either in general or for a specific purpose), the attack hex the c++ considers best is not always the one one wants.
20120410 18:19:53< mattsc> So for that the equivalent of the more inclusive 'attacks' vector from FAI is needed.  (Or I have to do it myself in Lua, which is what I have been doing so far - but that's much slower, of course)
20120410 18:20:33< mattsc> As for my other question (renaming of 'first' and 'second'), is that possible?
20120410 18:21:03< neph> mattsc, of course, that's 10 seconds of work
20120410 18:21:15< neph> I'm having lunch now, I'll do that when I finish up
20120410 18:21:23< mattsc> :)  that's what I was hoping.
20120410 18:21:43< mattsc> Actually, let me check quickly what FAI does.  It really makes the most sense to have it be the same in both.
20120410 18:24:11< mattsc> yep, it's 'dst' and 'src' inside 'movements'
20120410 18:25:38< matthiaskrgr> did anyone notive, that when the necrophage eats a unit, the hex where the victim was is highlighted for a very short moment although it isn't hovered? (svn version)
20120410 18:26:06< matthiaskrgr> highlighthed: surrounded by golden frame
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20120410 18:26:34< Crab_> hi, mattsc
20120410 18:26:46< Crab_> and hi, neph
20120410 18:26:52< neph> hello, Crab
20120410 18:27:33< mattsc> hi again, Crab_  (didn't notice you had disconnected again already)
20120410 18:27:56< Crab_> there were some funny irc glitches
20120410 18:27:59< neph> Crab_: I've done quite a few things while you were gone. I need you to either confirm the caching system I developed, or make me rewrite it :)
20120410 18:28:38< Crab_> where I can take a look at it?
20120410 18:28:52< neph> Crab_, you want the files or the revision numbers?
20120410 18:29:28< Crab_> 'how-to-reproduce'
20120410 18:29:48< Crab_> so, I should recompile the latest trunk, and then, what's the best way to test?
20120410 18:30:24< neph> Crab_, you can run the test scenario. I usually debug everything there
20120410 18:30:28< Crab_> ok
20120410 18:30:48< neph> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2012_nephro#2.29_Experience 
20120410 18:30:53< neph> patches are listed there
20120410 18:31:50< neph> right now only move maps are wired to the cache
20120410 18:32:05< neph> but the names are ai.get_cached_*()
20120410 18:32:29< neph> I decided to rename the methods after approval of the architecture
20120410 18:34:12< Crab_> ok. btw, the code is still not using the new map_location format everywhere. I guess that we, in time, should break backward-compatability (over the course of several dev revisions) and use the hashed format everywhere.
20120410 18:35:05< neph> yes, it's quite convenient, especially for lua
20120410 18:35:36< neph> I couldn't decide where to place the hash function, so that's it's reachable from c++ and lua
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20120410 18:38:45< Crab_> II'd add it to wesnoth. library
20120410 18:38:54< Crab_> s/II'd/I'd
20120410 18:39:05< Crab_> as it's not AI-specific
20120410 18:40:21< Crab_> I think that the cache system looks ok, but we must measure what % overhead we have on a double-foreach loop over the move map.
20120410 18:41:53< Crab_> if it's big enough, we might want to provide a way for scenario editor to use the version which only checks for cache once, at the start of iteration - for cases where the scenario designer is sure that he's not going to do actions in the loop.
20120410 18:42:17< Crab_> in c++, there's little overhead, but, here, it might be bigger and uglier.
20120410 18:43:44< Crab_> mattsc: btw, if get_attack_depth() is not used, it's a bug.
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20120410 18:50:24< mattsc> Crab_: see lines 136-137 in http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/testing/aspect_attacks.cpp?view=markup
20120410 18:51:02< mattsc> That's the only place where I can see attack_depth actually being used (other than just making the aspect available)
20120410 18:51:29< Crab_> yes, that looks like it.
20120410 18:51:47< Crab_> I'd take a look why it was commented, maybe there was a reason for it back then.
20120410 18:52:48< Akihara> Hi Crab_ :) I looked to the poisoning problem you've told me about, remember?
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20120410 18:52:59< Crab_> Akihara: hi. great
20120410 18:53:11< Crab_> so, was there a bug there?
20120410 18:53:23< Akihara> i think so, or i'm blind...
20120410 18:54:03< Akihara> in fact, in the rating function, we don't treat something like poisoning
20120410 18:54:21< Akihara> am I blind? :P
20120410 18:55:25< Crab_> point me to file/line, please
20120410 18:55:33< Crab_> (as there's a couple of different rating functions)
20120410 18:56:03< mattsc> Carb_, the comments in the revision log don't mention attack_depth.  I don't know what else to look for.
20120410 18:56:18< mattsc> *Crab_   (sorry!)
20120410 18:56:35< teugon> Crab_: got a question for you. In which file and/or class should I put the function for AI to set goto on a unit?
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20120410 18:58:10< mordante> servus
20120410 18:58:52< boucman> hey all
20120410 18:58:57< Akihara> Crab_: src/ai/default/attack.cpp line 266
20120410 19:00:12< Crab_> Akihara: see  line 276,   double value = chance_to_kill*target_value - avg_losses*(1.0-aggression)
20120410 19:00:34< Crab_> then, see line 167,  double value = chance_to_kill*target_value - avg_losses*(1.0-aggression)
20120410 19:00:45< Crab_> oops, "see like 167, avg_losses += cost * up->get_state(unit::STATE_POISONED) /2; "
20120410 19:01:55< teugon> Crab_: can you tell me In which file and/or class should I put the function for AI to set goto on a unit? 
20120410 19:02:15< Akihara> yeah I understand better :) I saw the line, but i was searching something else :) thanks!
20120410 19:02:53< Crab_> teugon: src/ai/actions.?pp for the action itself (use the same style as with existing actions)
20120410 19:03:27< teugon> 0k
20120410 19:03:34< Crab_> teugon: then, src/ai/contexts.cpp for the helper functions (again, same style as with existing actions, to readwrite_context, readwrite_context_proxy, readwrite_context_impl )
20120410 19:04:22< mordante> Ivanovic, yeah I read his reply
20120410 19:07:59< mordante> Blah, we know the timing of GSoC is bad for some students, but we really like patches
20120410 19:08:18< mordante> we really want to see the capabilities of our prospects
20120410 19:08:31< neph> Crab_, also, I exposed the attacks vector to Lua, and registered a callback function as one of it's fields, so that we can calculate rating on-demand. This involved storing a pointer to the original attack_analysis inside the attacks vector, and registering the callback as a closure with an engine as an upvalue, since we need to retrieve the ai_context to pass it to the rating function.
20120410 19:09:32< Crab_> have you done proper memory management? or you expect it to work while attack_analysis is still alive ?
20120410 19:11:04< neph> Crab_, well, right now the LuaAI user can only get a fresh copy of the vector and while his functions are working, no attacks should disappear. When I wire it to the caching we will have to rely on the proper invalidation and recaching
20120410 19:11:09< neph> Crab_, is that a bad habit?
20120410 19:11:31< neph> Nothing should theorethically go wrong the way it is done now.
20120410 19:11:45< mattsc> Crab_: it looks like the attack_depth change was made in r48196 for which the log says: 'refactoring of aspect_attacks to allow it to be used elsewhere'
20120410 19:12:13< Crab_> neph: what if someone stores a single attack into a lua variable, and calls it later, after it's already invalid? 
20120410 19:12:19< Crab_> mattsc: thanks!
20120410 19:15:03< neph> Crab_, this can be done, yes, but people shouldn't probably do that, since you are storing something that probably WILL be invalid later. Nothing can guarantee that units in the attack will not be moved by other CA's. Of course, this would probably crash the game, so I need to do some error detection whilst working with that pointer.
20120410 19:16:00< neph> So if someone wants to store these attacks for some reason, his .rating() calls won't crash the game and just return a warning message or error code
20120410 19:17:59< Crab_> yes, returning an error is fine.
20120410 19:18:17< Crab_> (segfaulting the game because of invalid memory access isn't)
20120410 19:18:22< neph> :)
20120410 19:21:22< neph> Crab_, is it too late to improve application pages now? I'd like to post some prototypes of debugging tools and ideas I came up with lately
20120410 19:21:38< Crab_> neph: it might be too late, it might not be too late.
20120410 19:22:13< Crab_> neph: i.e., I'm doing another pass at ranking now, some of the other mentors might have done it already, some of the other mentors might have not yet started.
20120410 19:23:03< Crab_> neph: so, you're welcome, but, as we've said before, there's no guarantee that we'll be able to look at stuff after 8th.
20120410 19:30:41< trademark__> Crab_, hello, can we update our proposal during all the week or you'll never read it again ?
20120410 19:31:04< Crab_> trademark__: you can update your proposal. I might read it again, but there's no guarantee.
20120410 19:31:17< trademark__> Crab_, ok thank you.
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20120410 19:33:02< mordante> trademark__, the sooner the better, else we might not have time to read the updates
20120410 19:33:25< trademark__> mordante, I understand, thanks.
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20120410 19:49:27< zookeeper> fendrin, pictures created with the wesnoth editor using wesnoth assets needs to be GPL because all the picture will contain is pieces of GPL art. it's a derivative work if i've ever seen one.
20120410 19:51:15< zookeeper> not comparable to a picture created with GIMP. or rather, only comparable to a picture created in GIMP only or primarily by tiling strokes of GPL'd brushes, clipart or whatever side by side.
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20120410 19:59:08< boucman> zookeeper: that's the sort of stuff common sense can't decide, only juges :P
20120410 20:00:30< zookeeper> sure. i'm not saying it couldn't go either way in court.
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20120410 20:14:49< fendrin> zookeeper, boucman: I think zookeeper is right there. I did only think about the resulting text files and thought they would get interpreted by their engine. But it seems (after rereading the thread carefuly) that they use bitmaps as maps.
20120410 20:15:34< boucman> ok
20120410 20:17:35< zookeeper> yep, they do
20120410 20:18:27< zookeeper> not much point in using the wesnoth editor just to get to use the plaintext map in another engine, now would there? :p
20120410 20:19:06< mattsc> Alarantalara, since you're fixing bugs in UtBS: in line 4221 in 'Out of the Frying Pan', it says "we have a long memories"
20120410 20:19:58< fendrin> zookeeper: Why not? If there game lacks a map editor and they must write their maps by hand like it was in the early days of wesnoth.
20120410 20:21:13< zookeeper> i guess that would be remotely possible.
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20120410 20:34:42< neph> Crab_, do you have any outstanding tasks I could tackle?
20120410 20:35:14< Crab_> neph: I've suggested 'time how big is the % overhead you get on your caching approach'
20120410 20:35:26< Crab_> neph: if that's not interesting, tell me, I'll try to find something else.
20120410 20:36:50< fendrin> hi Crab_
20120410 20:36:55< Crab_> hi, fendrin
20120410 20:37:09< neph> Crab_, not that that is not interesting, rather I don't really know how to do that/never done that before
20120410 20:37:40< Crab_> neph: it should be easy. basically,  try two loops :
20120410 20:38:13< Crab_> 1) for i = 1 to SOME_BIG_NUMBER, double-loop over move map using 'cached access'
20120410 20:38:32< shadowm> fendrin: The essential problem here is that Wesnoth was never intended to be a naval warfare simulator
20120410 20:38:51< Crab_> 2) for i = 1 to SOME_BIG_NUMBER, double-loop over move map using a copy of move_map (which would do no cache checks,)
20120410 20:39:19< Crab_> pick SOME_BIG_NUMBER to be big enough so you'd be able to compare the 'time spent' in both approaches.
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20120410 20:40:01< shadowm> And I honestly can't think of any reasons why it should become one, but I begin to fear one of these days I'll walk by and find someone pushing a patch implementing a first-person shooter engine or something in mainline...
20120410 20:40:32< Crab_> neph: you might want to 'allow' some other lua library in, or code a c++ accessor for 'current time'
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20120410 20:42:55< neph> Crab_, I think we're in a little misunderstanding here. I cache the whole map on first access, I am not caching the elements of it
20120410 20:44:16< Crab_> neph: I just want to make sure that there's no big overhead on double-foreach-loop over the move map
20120410 20:44:42< Crab_> neph: And, it's possible to write that double-foreach-loop in a way that would access the move map N*M times, leading to N*M cache checks.
20120410 20:44:58< Crab_> neph: so, I want to make sure that it's possible to write that double-foreach-loop over move map in a way that would only get 1 cache check.
20120410 20:45:25< Crab_> neph: so, it can be done without using the timer, but just by counting the number of 'is valid?' checks.
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20120410 20:48:42< neph> Crab_, when you loop over the move_map there are no cache checks at all.
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20120410 20:49:00< Crab_> neph: apart from the 1 check at start?
20120410 20:49:06< neph> Crab_, yes
20120410 20:50:56< Crab_> ok, then it's good, then.
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20120410 21:05:32< Crab_> neph: then, what about doing what you've wanted to do  - put 'cached' versions instead of non-cached?
20120410 21:11:36< neph> Crab_, yes, I will do that. 
20120410 21:11:46 * neph remembered that he has exams upcoming
20120410 21:13:36< Crab_> :)
20120410 21:16:10< neph> I'll go grab a book on design patterns, whilst the library is open
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20120410 21:24:54< mordante>  I'm off bye
20120410 21:25:07< trademark_> mordante, good night
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20120410 21:30:14< trademark_> I was reading http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WritingYourOwnAI#Using_your_AI and they speak about "create_ai" function but it seems to be removed, isn't it ?
20120410 21:32:03< Crab_> trademark_: yes, that's from 2009, I guess
20120410 21:33:25< neph> Crab_, if you will recall something interesting/fun/hard/tricky to do, leave a message here I'll read it. I should be back in about an hour.
20120410 21:33:30 * neph left
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20120410 21:38:23< nagafono> Crab_, ho, im doing some kind of patch but a
20120410 21:38:38< nagafono> not al the mistakes are cleaned
20120410 21:39:07< nagafono> so is there a sense to continue/am i have one more day?
20120410 21:44:02< Crab_> nagafono: hello. well, submit a patch but note there that it is work-in-progress
20120410 21:46:25< nagafono> Crab_: the thing is that the patch is now more looks like addon (i have lua scripts with my improvements which are included in come kind of testing scenario). so should i add it somehow to core or i can just upload this addon?
20120410 21:47:22< Crab_> uploading is ok, as well
20120410 21:47:27< Crab_> basically, do two things
20120410 21:47:36< Crab_> (1) state now in your proposal that you have this big work-in-progress
20120410 21:48:11< Crab_> (2) get the code to us, somehow. we're not guaranteeing that we'll take a look at stuff now, but, you have a big chance that we'll do, if you explicitly notify us now.
20120410 21:49:28< nagafono> Crab_: ok then, i have some kind of repository (on gitorious) for that and put the link here whneit would be works without errors. is that acceptable?
20120410 21:50:12< Crab_> yes. but be sure to add NOW a note to your proposal or as a comment in google's tracker, that you have a big work-in-progress.
20120410 21:51:31< nagafono> Crab_: any desription of my work or just notification?
20120410 21:51:38< Crab_> at least notification
20120410 21:55:40< nagafono> Crab_: so here it is: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2012_LineDefenceStrategy#If_you_have_contributed_any_patches_to_Wesnoth.2C_please_list_them_below._You_can_also_list_patches_that_have_been_submitted_but_not_committed_yet_and_patches_that_have_not_been_specifically_written_for_GSoC._If_you_have_gained_commit_access_to_our_SVN_.28during_the_evaluation_period_or_earlier.29_please_state_so.
20120410 21:57:33< Crab_> ok, thanks
20120410 22:15:30< teugon> Crab: you told me to write the helper functions in contexts.cpp (inside readwrite_context, readwrite_context_proxy, readwrite_context_impl). Can you explain me what those classes are used for ?
20120410 22:20:42< teugon> Crab_: you told me to write the helper functions in contexts.cpp (inside readwrite_context, readwrite_context_proxy, readwrite_context_impl). Can you explain me what those classes are used for ?
20120410 22:23:38< Crab_> teugon: just duplicate the code already there. readwrite_context is an interface, readwrite_context_proxy is the implementation which proxies to real code, and readwrite_context_impl is the implementation
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20120410 22:55:34< CIA-69> jamit * r53889 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: Add multiturn= attribute for [lift_fog].
20120410 23:04:42 * neph back
20120410 23:06:55< neph> Crab_, while I was walking around, I thought about the pointer problem. The guys in #C++ approved my thoughts that there is no way to verify whether the object on the other side is still alive. The only solution I thought of is kind of horrible
20120410 23:07:10< Crab_> neph: shared pointers?
20120410 23:08:02< Crab_> neph: i.e., boost::shared_ptr, and use lua-specific garbage-collect code to get rid of the reference 
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20120410 23:25:35< neph> Crab_, I don't understand, to be honest.
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20120410 23:52:23< CIA-69> alarantalara * r53890 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: yet more refactoring for scenario 8 - also fixes grammar error spotted by mattsc
20120410 23:55:17< CIA-69> alarantalara * r53891 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/08_Out_of_the_Frying_Pan.cfg: delete variable initialization made useless by r53890
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 11 00:00:28 2012