--- Log opened Wed Apr 18 00:00:53 2012
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20120418 01:32:39< Alarantalara> noy: you might try KompoZer. It's been used with some success in first year courses at my university
20120418 01:32:46< noy> thanks
20120418 01:32:54< noy> that's the one I'm using :p
20120418 01:33:03< noy> I mean someone just recommended it
20120418 01:34:46< Alarantalara> sadly, I'm not everywhere that you are to avoid redundancy
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20120418 03:11:48< gabba> bwrsandman: Hi
20120418 03:12:00< bwrsandman> gabbi: Hello
20120418 03:12:45< bwrsandman> gabba: So, my proposal needs some work right?
20120418 03:13:04< gabba> yeah, so as I said I found your mockup interesting, but apart from that you completely misunderstood the project 
20120418 03:13:34< bwrsandman> can you help me improve it?
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20120418 03:14:13< gabba> Sure. At this point you're up against some stiff competition, people who've worked a lot on their proposal, but you can still give it a shot.
20120418 03:14:33< gabba> Have you played around with the whiteboard in-game a bit?
20120418 03:15:34< bwrsandman> I tried out the game a bit. I don't know if I explored the whiteboard entirely.
20120418 03:16:11< gabba> Well, from your screenshot I think you figured out how to define several attacks.
20120418 03:16:55< bwrsandman> what do you think of the screenshot?
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20120418 03:17:47< gabba> Well, I like the way you represented the units side-by-side, it saves space
20120418 03:18:06< gabba> But it's missing the principal thing, the Chance To Kill calculation
20120418 03:18:27< gabba> And that's where you misunderstood the project: we're not doing simultaneous attacks
20120418 03:18:48< bwrsandman> so it's more like a queue?
20120418 03:19:30< gabba> Instead we want to extend a feature that's already present in the battle dialog by clicking a button, that shows you the odds of your unit dealing various amounts of damage, including killing the enemy
20120418 03:19:55< bwrsandman> ok
20120418 03:20:25< gabba> But said feature only shows the odds for one unit, and the whiteboard allows you to plan up to six attacks in a row... so statistics about your victory odds in that case (such as attacking a boss with 6 units) would be interesting
20120418 03:21:00< gabba> I suggest you check out the current CTK dialog now so you understand what I'm talking about
20120418 03:21:10< bwrsandman> I see, so the work is mainly in the dialog opened with "damage calculation"?
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20120418 03:21:53< gabba> yeah - but I'd be interested in maybe moving a few informations from there in the main battle dialog, at least when multiple attacks are defined
20120418 03:23:15< bwrsandman> i agree it would be nice
20120418 03:24:19< bwrsandman> so if it's up to six, you could probably have 2 columns of the unit's image, I found that stacking more than 3 didn't look very apeaing
20120418 03:24:45< gabba> also, being able to change the order of the attacks (and see how it affects the battle odds) would be nice
20120418 03:25:53< gabba> bwrsandman: well, now I know that you can make a proper mockup, so we could discuss the new look if you're accepted
20120418 03:26:35< gabba> But for you to have a chance, I'd have to see how well you can code Wesnoth GUI stuff
20120418 03:27:12< bwrsandman> okay
20120418 03:27:21< bwrsandman> So it's a test is it? :D
20120418 03:27:30< gabba> pretty much :P
20120418 03:27:49< bwrsandman> how do you want to do this?
20120418 03:28:53< gabba> Since we're gonna make our final choice of students very, very soon, I suggest you pick two small changes to make to the battle dialog, that are relevent to this project, and implement them by tomorrow evening
20120418 03:29:39< gabba> Pretty crazy if you haven't touched wesnoth code before, but if I give you a later deadline you might just work for nothing and that's not cool
20120418 03:29:56< bwrsandman> OK
20120418 03:30:33< bwrsandman> and if I need help orienting myself with the structure, there's documentation, but if I have more questions can I ask you?
20120418 03:31:29< gabba> You can ask me and other devs (mordante is the GUI guy, I hope he's gonna be around tomorrow)
20120418 03:31:38< gabba> I'll be at work so not much available
20120418 03:32:00< bwrsandman> kk
20120418 03:32:18< bwrsandman> Thanks for all this. I'll get started right away
20120418 03:32:19< gabba> most of the guys are in Europe, so take into account their timezone if you want to find many people online
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20120418 03:36:06< bwrsandman> how should I submit changes?
20120418 03:36:13< gabba> bwrsandman: good luck! I suggest you regularly leave some trace of your work online on either some code hosting (google code, github) or maybe dropbox, and link it on your wiki and google proposal. This way if we meet earlier than I thought, I can at least check out your work in progress.
20120418 03:36:38< bwrsandman> github.com/bwrsandman
20120418 03:37:14< gabba> bwrsandman: once done, submit a patch (svn diff) to our bugtracker at gna.org
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20120418 03:38:01< gabba> bwrsandman: ha ha ok you're in Montréal like me
20120418 03:38:08< bwrsandman> mais oui!
20120418 03:38:20< gabba> That means we could have work meetings in person if you're accepted, that's nice
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20120418 03:38:30< gabba> et en Français, si tu veux ;)
20120418 03:38:31< bwrsandman> crazy
20120418 03:40:08< gabba> well, you're up against some very nice and complete proposals like this one http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Ejls/GSoC_2012/Whiteboard_Backend_Refactoring, so let's see how well you can convince me with this little test.
20120418 03:41:03< bwrsandman> I'll try hard!
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20120418 14:10:42< teugon> guys 2 days ago I've submitted a patch but it I've received a received a mail from <NO-REPLY.INVALID-ADDRESS@gna.org>. I've not understand what it wanted to alert me. Here is the paste http://pastebin.com/rSwu6gHk.
20120418 14:11:02< teugon> Can you explain me what was wrong?
20120418 14:11:35< teugon> *I've received ...
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20120418 14:15:07< Akihara> teugon: I think it's just to tell you that you have submitted something... It's not really an alert
20120418 14:19:54< teugon> I'm relieved :)
20120418 14:21:02< Akihara> and you will receive others when someone answers :) so don't panic
20120418 14:29:40< teugon> I've not open the the mail box for 2 days. Tbh I've been surprised not to have found any reply. Seems others have a life too :p
20120418 14:30:27< neph> teugon, what does that patch actually do?
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20120418 14:34:10< teugon> it should implement a new function for the AI, It's about the EasyCoding: "adding a (C++ and lua equivalent) function to set a goto on a unit". Technically with it u can move unit "a" in one of the 6 hex near unit "b". 
20120418 14:34:29< teugon> "a" and "b" must be of the same side, or the move isn't allowed
20120418 14:37:33< teugon> to implement it I've modified a bit the move_result::execute adding a flag in the constructor. Previous constructor always, set this flag as false ( move_result is the standard move).  I've  added also 2 new error return values
20120418 14:42:46< teugon> I've forgot to mention I had the helper functions and the wrapper in src/ai/lua.cpp
20120418 14:43:03< teugon> *I' had to write the...
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20120418 19:42:38< LovCAPONE> Hi, I'm a programmer who would like to contribute to the Wesnoth project. I have a patch to submit (for bug #19621). I wuold like to know  how to properly submit it. Thanks!
20120418 19:43:20< Ivanovic> at patches.wesnoth.org
20120418 19:43:45< LovCAPONE> ok and it doesn't matter if the bug wasn't assigned to me?
20120418 19:43:47< boucman> LovCAPONE: submit the result of "svn diff" it's the prefered form
20120418 19:45:42< LovCAPONE> ok thanks!
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20120418 21:15:51< neph> Hi, Crab_, I was doing the tasks mattsc suggested, one of them is getting "fresh" copies of objects. Whilst I did that for move maps, he also wanted to have such refreshing for attacks. My first idea was to add methods to manually invalidate the aspect, but then I understood that he might also want to get fresh aspects of all other kinds later. So I thought, the best way to invalidate everything is by firing a gamstate_changed event, but doing that m
20120418 21:15:51< neph> anually is rather artificial.
20120418 21:16:00< neph>  but doing that m
20120418 21:16:00< neph> anually is rather artificial
20120418 21:16:13< neph> sorrz
20120418 21:16:23< Crab_> why do you want to get 'fresh' copies?
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20120418 21:16:54< neph> Crab_, mattsc moves around his units in debug mode and want to see the objects while he's on the human side
20120418 21:17:25< Crab_> I'd say that if there are bugs in the cache system, they should be fixed, if possible
20120418 21:17:30< neph> seems to me that moving a unit doesn't fire a gamestate changed event, even though, the gamestate is changed actually
20120418 21:17:59< Crab_> so, if human moves a unit, gamestate should be changed by firing that event, yes
20120418 21:18:58< neph> Crab_, I couldn't track down the code that implements these debug features, could you give me a pointer?
20120418 21:19:13< Crab_> how he moves his units?
20120418 21:19:26< Crab_> if it's a console command, it's in menu_events.cpp
20120418 21:19:37< neph> mattsc, are you online?
20120418 21:19:44< mattsc> Hi, Crab_, neph
20120418 21:20:13< Crab_> hi, mattsc
20120418 21:20:42< mattsc> When debugging AI code, I change the gamestate in 2 ways: moving them around with the mouse; and changing there stats with debug commands (or even adding new units, or changing sides, etc.)
20120418 21:20:54< mattsc> *their stats
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20120418 21:21:27< mattsc> It's the easiest way to test complicated evaluation algorithms
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20120418 21:30:00< neph> Crab_, so, the actions actually done do raise the event, but the debug commands and creating units seem to not. Also I notice that creating a unit invokes the copy constructor of class unit for some reason.
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20120418 21:31:23< Crab_> then the debug commands should raise those events
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20120418 21:32:03< neph> That's what I thought. Ok, I'll check out the menu_events.cpp right after rebooting
20120418 21:34:10< mattsc> neph: I was under the impression that moving the units around did not change the output.
20120418 21:34:40< neph> mattsc, do you move them the usual way?
20120418 21:35:10< mattsc> Yes, clicking on them and moving or attacking
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20120418 21:36:36< neph> That actually makes sense to me. The event is raised from the ai/actions.cpp whereas moving units with your mouse is not following the same callpath. It wouldn't be very good if we shoot that event after each human move, since the AI will not needed until it is its turn anyway
20120418 21:38:01< mattsc> That's fine with me, as long as there is a debug option available which can be used for this
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20120418 21:42:46< neph> Crab_, in this case, what do you think about this approach: the debug method calling to get an aspect would artificially raise a gamestate change event and then just call the usual getter. Since these methods won't be available outside debug mode it will can't do any real harm to the performance, but the debugger(person) will always have the latest information.
20120418 21:43:34< Crab_> we can, yes. or provide an 'invalidate' method
20120418 21:43:40< Crab_> I'll have to go, bye
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20120418 22:19:20< hankerspace_> Hi
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20120418 23:44:40< bwrsandman> hey gabba
20120418 23:44:51< gabba> hey bwrsandman 
20120418 23:45:28< bwrsandman> I have done as much as I can do in this time frame, I now need to study for my final tomorrow... :S
20120418 23:45:43< bwrsandman> but it's up on my github account
20120418 23:45:51< bwrsandman> https://github.com/bwrsandman/Wesnoth-Whiteboard/tree/dev
20120418 23:46:13< gabba> Thanks, I'll take a look tonight
20120418 23:46:25< bwrsandman> cheers!
20120418 23:46:35< gabba> Good luck for your final(s)
20120418 23:46:43< bwrsandman> Thanks!
20120418 23:47:34< bwrsandman> email me if you need anything specific like an svn diff (I've never done one before)
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20120418 23:49:00< Artemius23> gabba, may you help me about my task ? 
20120418 23:50:28< Artemius23> I need just an advice, I am developing a new tutorial that user can choose a nickname for himself to play with it during tutorial 
20120418 23:52:41< gabba> Artemius23: I don't know much about that area, but maybe you can do it completely in lua/WML
20120418 23:52:49< Artemius23> Rather than Konrad or Li'sar, I want to see that user can choose a nickname for himself for better understanding of wesnoth structure
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20120418 23:52:53< gabba> prompt the user for a name, and then rename the unit
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20120418 23:54:16< gabba> Actually adding a feature for renaming the player might be complicated because you have to consider the effects on multiplayer
20120418 23:54:52< Artemius23> so, what do you think ? I am doing it for practice for summer now I am filled with midterms so I cannot fully concantrate until 2nd midt.
20120418 23:55:09< Artemius23> But in tutorial, for now.
20120418 23:55:48< gabba> Sorry, what do I think about what?
20120418 23:58:24< Artemius23> Nothing special actually, I just want you to know and may give an advice about this idea 
--- Log closed Thu Apr 19 00:00:53 2012